Discussion keeps the world turning.
This is Roundtable.
You're listening to Roundtable.
I'm Yonghong Lin, joined by Steve and Lee Lee.
Let's school more cool, or is it just less of everything?
The four -day school week has everyone talking, from rural teachers rejoicing to rough -wressed parents figuring out Fridays.
Roundtable invites you to join us and do the math behind these long weekends and see if four really equals five.
And a bride, a groom, and an empty hall?
Is this a nightmare or someone's heartbreaking reality?
One viral story of an empty wedding has asking, what would you do if no one comes to your big day?
But before this... Education shapes society, but society shapes education too.
More and more schools around the world are starting to implement four -day weeks in a variety of ways.
Will this be a short -lived experiment, or the beginning of a new approach to education that can reduce stress for students, help recruit teachers, and rethink learning altogether?
When schools take or make the change, what are we prioritizing?
Flexibility, or education, or academics?
What are some deeper values and challenges this decision reflects?
Before unpack all these evolves, let's first take a look at where the four -day school week approach is being done and what the reasons behind are, because I'm definitely sure that these approaches are not taking place, or at least are not that popular here in China just yet.
This isn't a new concept.
First of all, this isn't something that started in the beginning of this year, or something like that.
Some districts or regions in different countries, they've been doing this for years, and some have tried it and liked it.
Some have tried it and then switched back to a traditional five -day school week.
But it does seem to be expanding into kind of a global experiment, and it's happening in multiple countries around the world.
Poland is an example.
France is an example.
Australia and the United States.
And I think for our discussion today, when we talk about the advantages and the disadvantages and the results of how all of this came out, we're going to focus on the United States, because if we bounce from country to country, then the results might be a little bit confusing.
So I thought it's better to focus on one particular area.
Anyway, the reasons why.
Why would they do something like this, make a switch to a four -day school week?
Well, that really depends on where you're talking about.
In Australia, for example, the four -day week was suggested because of a major teacher shortage that they're having in the country.
So the idea was that a reduced schedule would lead to more teacher applications.
Makes sense, right?
Makes sense in a way that you understand why they're doing it, not in the way of, in my opinion, because I feel like education is supposed to be focusing on the students.
It's more like a band -aid solution if we use this as an example, as a reason.
But you have to have teachers in the classrooms to teach the students.
And in Australia, they're facing what they call an unprecedented teacher shortage.
By 2025, they're projecting a shortfall of about 4 ,000 high school teachers.
They faced this problem in Australia in the past, in the 1970s.
What they did at that time was to bring in teachers from outside the country, like the UK and Canada and America.
But another possible solution is the reduced school week.
In the United States, there are 2 ,100 public schools, roughly, in 25 different states that have switched to a four -day week.
And the hope there, again, was to recruit new teachers, but also to save money and boost student attendance.
So when you ask the question, why?
Why are they doing this?
It depends on which country, it depends on which region, and it depends really on which school district because they all have their own separate needs and wants and desires.
This actually reminds me of the situation that I've been observing these days, because when I was a kid, I remember when I say I was a kid, I really meant, really mean I was a kid, like in primary school, or even in the first three grades in primary school.
We would have Friday afternoon, ending school time a bit earlier than the other days, around 2 o 'clock or 3 o 'clock, that's Friday.
And for a short period of time, we had Tuesday for some reason, having several hours, as our leisure time, instead of having to attend classes.
When you say leisure time, what do you mean by that?
Sometimes it means you get to close school, leave school around 3 p .m.
Sometimes it means that you get to attend some extracurricular classes.
So yeah, that was the practice.
But now, many, at least primary schools here in China, or kindergartens here in China, they would have their school hour closed or off around 3 o 'clock in the p .m.
So actually, the situation, even we are not looking at a four -day school day situation here in China, we do see the shift or adjustments of exact school hours here in this country as well.
But when it comes to four -day school week in other countries, in the situation, in the stories we are talking about today, are we always looking at a exact four -day school day, or also it has something to do with exact school hours in the day?
Yeah, and I asked about your experience here in China because you were talking about something similar that they do in France.
The four -day school week can look a little bit different depending on the school.
Oftentimes, it will be going to school from Monday to Thursday, then you'll have Friday off.
Some schools do it differently, some will give the students Monday off.
But in both situations, you have a three -day weekend, right?
It's not purely time off, though, because they make up for that extra day missed.
They go to school a little bit earlier in the morning, and they stay a little bit later in the afternoon to make up for that extra time lost.
In France, though, they do it a little bit differently.
And this goes back to 2013 when they had some school reform there.
They call this non -traditional school time.
The city of Paris, they reduced school hours on Tuesday and Friday afternoons, and from 3 .30 to 5 p .m., students had options.
They could either go home or they could participate in extracurricular activities that were offered for free by the city.
And that's why I was asking you, what do you mean by that?
Did you have to stay at school or did you have the option to leave and go home?
Yeah, similar for me when I was a kid.
How about you, Lee?
Do you remember some relatively irregular school hours or school days' arrangements?
Well, to be honest, I really had poor memories.
I don't really remember my primary school time.
But I do remember we had a pretty flexible school time, school hour, both in my primary school and also secondary school.
And for my primary school, I believe the school time could just end at around 3 or 4 p .m.
And, of course, we had a Friday afternoon as well as a free time for you so that you can go back home early.
Oh, really? Yes, and also in my middle school, I think the average school hour could just also end at 3 or 4, of course.
Middle school? Yeah, middle school.
My school is famous for having a really relaxing and flexible school hour, but not for every middle school in the city.
But I think the question is, where did teachers go?
I'm starting to think about this question right now, because you are mentioning a lot of things about the teacher shortage as being the major reason why they're having this policy.
So I'm thinking, how would teachers think about this?
Because I'm sure most kids would just embrace this four -school -week idea at first response, right?
We'll get to the results, because they did find out.
They asked teachers, how do you feel about this?
They asked students how they felt about it, and then from the parents' point of view as well.
But you asked the question, where did all the teachers go?
And I found a study that was conducted by MIT Massachusetts Institute of Technology in 2021.
And I'll reference this one, and I'll reference another study in just a sec.
But the MIT study, they said that many school districts have faced financial pressure following what they called the Great Recession.
That was from 2007 to 2009.
And part of the problem in many different states was an increase in expenditures.
So school districts were having to spend more money, but they weren't getting the financial assistance from either the state government or the federal government that they were getting before.
So reduced budgets, and that combined with teachers having to work from home, introduced to new pressures and new stresses, a lot of teachers had made a decision during that time that they weren't going to come back when things finished with the pandemic.
This is actually quite complicated, actually, I would say.
Because here in China, the reason that I always find examples in primary schools is that for students in middle school, as well as especially actually high school, the pressure of their academic results would be seen as something that they should deal with primarily.
So I don't really see the studying time getting cut down for middle school students or high school students.
So when it comes to the benefits or the results of the four school days, are we seeing an academic result being improved, saying the same, or definitely short -cut down?
Well, the benefits, it depends on...
This is why it's so complicated and this is where we'll really start to focus on the United States.
It really truly depends on the district or the individual school that you are looking at.
This is the other study that I was referencing.
Paul Thompson, he's an associate professor of economics at Oregon State University, and he's done extensive research on this topic of the four -day week.
And he said that the most significant benefit of a four -day week is that it offers flexibility to district administrators, to teachers, and students, as well.
You know, talking about that financial flexibility.
In the past, when school districts in the United States had dealt with financial problems, they would do things like laying off teachers or even laying off administrators, increasing class sizes, or even closing schools or consolidating schools, combining two schools into one, things like that.
They would also implement student fees for certain activities or alter schedules.
And this is one of the reasons that many districts and many schools have opted for the four -day week, is because it offers them so much in terms of flexibility.
It saves them a lot of money.
If you look at different schools, pardon me, they say that they can save about 5%, sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less, on their budget for the academic year.
Now, that doesn't sound like a lot of money, but if you're talking about a school district, for example, in Florida, there was one school district where that amounted to $7 million saved.
You're talking about school lunches, right?
You're talking about bus trips.
You're talking about janitorial services and staff that need to be paid.
So when you have that extra day, it really does allow for a lot more financial flexibility for the individual schools.
I can definitely see the benefits from the side of the operation of the school about the budget of the local region.
But as a parent now, I mean, if I were a kid, I was still a kid, I would be thrilled to have only four days at school.
All right, fine, let's jump to that one there.
Because now I'm a parent and I'm like, well, when my kid is not in school, it means I have to take care of them.
It means I have to expend my expenditure on the kid and this, if I am not someone with enough money to do that, it could generate problems.
Yes, and that is one of the problems, is that parents suddenly were left with another responsibility on a day where they typically were not left with that responsibility.
What can I do with my kid today?
Where do I send them?
And I also have to feed them and things like that.
I'll come back to that point in a moment.
But yeah, let's get to it.
Okay, students, they asked the students a study by Rand, which is a research group.
And the research organization, they look at public policy changes and challenges to try to figure out.
The reason they asked Rand to do some research on this is because they're a big organization and nothing had really been done on a national level to try to figure out whether this was really, the direction education should be going or not.
So they wanted to find out.
So we'll start with students.
They asked students, do you like this or not?
Okay, you know what they're going to say.
What percentage of students said they liked the four -day school week?
80, 90, 100 percent.
I wouldn't like it.
85 percent. 85 percent said they really liked it a lot, actually.
So that was the answer from them.
Teachers, did they like it or not?
Teachers would definitely like it, right?
I mean, if they can really relax on the one day.
Well, they don't see the teachers.
This is a misconception.
The teachers don't have a day off.
The teachers in many school districts, again, going back to the flexibility, part of the problem in the United States across a lot of different school districts was with the shortage of teachers comes a shortage of substitute teachers so that if someone is sick on a particular day, what do you do?
How can you find someone?
In some districts, parents needed to come into the schools to teach the classes on a day because there was no one to fill the classroom.
So the teachers are allowed a certain amount of flexibility.
They are working, but they can also use that time to grade tests or catch up on other classwork, but they can also leave the school.
They can run errands that maybe they couldn't catch up on in other days during the week.
Again, going back to that flexibility point, that was one of the big points why teachers really liked it.
And in terms of the districts wanting or hoping that more teachers would apply to their schools, one district in particular saw an increase of 400 % of school teacher applications when they made the change to the four -day week because it was such an attractive thing for a potential teacher.
I think it's pretty tricky because so far it sounds more like a workplace benefit and proofing policy for teachers.
And that's exactly what they said in the survey result.
They said it's not necessarily a career factor per se, it's just a perk to the job.
And if you take a look at it, actually when it comes to student achievement, math and English test scores didn't fall when school switched to a four -day week, but they didn't grow as fast as they did in similar districts in the same states that kept a five -day schedule that is also found in the results,
the rent found. And that meant students in the four -day districts fell behind a little more every year.
And after eight years, the gap was roughly equivalent to the achievement losses that schools saw during the pandemic.
Yeah, but this is where it becomes tricky.
What you're referencing there is one district.
But the MIT study looked at a district in Colorado, for example, and they found positive effects on fourth and fifth grade math and reading.
But then they compared that to a district in Oregon, which is another state, where they found that there were negative effects on reading skills of students in the third to eighth grade.
And what that implies is that the results of a four -day week vary from state to state and from district to district and also perhaps from school to school.
It's very difficult to make a blanket policy for an entire country or sometimes even an entire state, because not all things are equal.
Demographics -wise, there's a lot of financial separation between families as well, where you have wealthy families who don't have a problem paying for babysitting, don't have a problem paying for extra meals.
But for lower -income families, they struggle.
That's three extra meals in a day that would typically have been provided by the school that suddenly now that needs to be paid for by a parent or a caretaker.
Definitely. We've been talking about four -day work days already a lot here on Roundtable.
We talk about also remote working or hybrid working systems.
All these are about adults who can control what they do or who can, most occasions, make better decisions for themselves.
But when it comes to kids, are we really shortening the learning period of kids?
Are we really having more decisions on what to do on a day or on a time within a week?
These are some questions that remain to be answered or to be at least experimented.
It works in some places.
It doesn't work in other places.
In every choice, the value judgment is less, sometimes more.
Or is it just less?
I think it depends on individuals.
And the four -day school week makes us question how much time and effort it truly takes to prepare the next generation.
You're listening to Roundtable coming up next.
How would you feel and react when no one comes to your big party or even worse, your wedding?
Don't go away. If you want to shine up from different perspectives, then tune in to Roundtable where East meets West and understanding is the goal.
It's the hour of Roundtable with myself, Neil Hong -Lin, Steve Heatherly and Li Yi.
The invitation set RSVP, not ghost me, right?
But what happens when your guest list turns into a ghost list?
Let's talk about the viral wedding story that's, you know, equal parts awkward and heartbreaking.
What exactly happened and what is the video all about?
This is really disappointing.
You know, when I look at the video, this is a viral TikTok video showing the painful moment when a bride, who is Kalina Mary from Origin American, walked into her wedding reception expecting a crowd but only found five people who showed up for her wedding.
Oh gosh. Yes, and despite of like months of planning, sending out 75 digital invites and also 25 formal ones, the venue was almost empty leaving the couple to awkwardly celebrate in a lavishly decorated but nearly empty hall.
And this video has really gathered a great number of views and also comments.
The bride is definitely disappointed.
She wrote in the caption of her clip which has gathered almost seven million views.
She said five people showed up like, are you kidding me?
As you see in the video, we entered the venue and no one is there.
The invite said 1 p .m.
My mom told me at 1 .15 p .m.
that no one was there.
My husband and I finally showed up at 2 o 'clock to only five people in a venue plan for 40.
She said she dreamt that she would just walk into a bunch of people celebrating and hooting for them.
However, she end up having an empty hall.
Although she did not really let her, you know, no show guest ring her special day.
However, she still feels confused.
She just start to rethink like, why?
You know, what did I do to make people decide to not show up at my wedding and why couldn't we met her enough for people to show up?
This is really heartbroken.
If I don't know better, I would even assume the video is staged.
I could not believe this.
I don't think so. Right.
I think this is real.
That's the thing. Yeah, it is real and it's astonishing for a reason.
But I would ask you first, what would you react if this happens to you?
Yeah, I mean, imagine that situation.
This is a little bit different style wedding, isn't it?
Because typically, you know, they'll be standing at the front with the audience all together.
And then the bride comes in last.
I think that's how it goes.
And this is different because the bride and groom are together and they open the doors to this grand hall, expecting a whole audience of people and.
Oh, it's so cringe.
But what do you do?
Do you keep going with the wedding?
You do. You do. No question about it.
Of course, as someone who had already, you know, organized the wedding ceremony, my initial response, of course, I will be really disappointed.
But meantime, I've spent a huge amount of money, you know, in terms of preparing for this wedding ceremony.
I can't really redo it again.
You have to reschedule everything.
That's really difficult, nearly impossible.
And more importantly, I think in this case, the number of guests is really that is really the thing that matters so much because I do see some smaller wedding where there's only the husband and wife, close friends, very, very few guests.
The thing is that the reality really contrasts so much with your expectation.
You have invited 17, 80 people.
Only five people have showed up.
This is brutal. She sent out 100 invitations, but she got 40 RSVPs.
She got 40 people said they were going to be there.
They just didn't show up.
So this has really gotten you.
I mean, she's cut off certain certain friends in her life now as a result.
Oh, she's deleted people from her life.
You know, my reaction, that would never happen to me because I'm not that kind of person.
If someone say they're going to come, I will make sure they come.
Well, just go and drag them out of their house for some of my wedding guests.
Some of them are my really close friends.
I would personally make sure they're there.
For example, their train ticket is on time.
I would order and also book hotels for them.
And some of them would have to come earlier because they have to attend some.
It's kind of like before the real ceremony, ceremony kind of activity.
So I'd like to introduce the saying here in China.
It's actually a phrase called, it's actually a strategic principle from the ancient Chinese military classic.
The art of war. Wow.
You sound really fun.
I can't wait for that wedding.
It actually means victories, victorious warriors win first and then go to war while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win.
How is that connected to love and romance?
It's connected to everything that is preparation, preparation, preparation.
You have to make sure.
Because by failing to prepare, you are preparing to fail.
And for a huge day like this, if you don't have good enough preparation, I think it's unacceptable.
So I do understand the love birds are sad, but I blame them partly, at least 40 percent.
You know, one of the cringe moments in this story.
When they walked into the hall, Miley Cyrus, the American singer, her song When I Look At You was playing.
And in the lyrics is When My World Is Falling Apart, as they're walking down the aisle.
And you can hear like Uncle Herb sneeze because he's one of five people in the whole place.
It's just a terrible story.
I love the response from the Internet, though.
You know, Internet users can be awful or they can be wonderful at times.
And she got so much support from the Internet saying like, hey, just do it again.
And we're all going to go.
We're going to go and be there for you.
Forget about those people that didn't come.
We'll be your audience next time.
Are they also paying for the ceremony?
No, they're not going to do that.
They're just trying to be nice.
Yeah, I think I blame the Internet a little bit.
That is with the development of technology.
We contact each other and we communicate with each other more virtually than actually.
And that may be a problem for our future generation as well.
And that brings us to the end of today's Roundtable.
We'd love to hear your thoughts on today's topics.
Leave us a comment or send us an email to roundtablepodcast .com.
Until next time, keep the conversations going and the ideas flowing.
This is Neil Honglin with Lee and Steve.
Bye.
