This is an All Ears English podcast, episode 246.
Improv comedy artist, Jessica Coyle, shows you how to use your body to get more confident when you speak English.
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Hey!
Today you'll meet Jessica Coyle.
She's an improvisational comedy artist based in New York City and an English teacher with a master's degree.
She'll show you how to open up and use your body as an instrument, how to mirror your conversation partner and how to initiate with an action.
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Hey guys, our guest today works at the intersection of improvisational comedy and English teaching.
She's been an English teacher since 2007, has a master's degree in TESOL and has studied and performed improv in Korea China, Canada and the US.
Our guest today is New York-based Jessica Coyle.
Welcome, Jessica.
How are you doing?
Oh, I'm fabulous.
Hi, Lindsay.
Nice to chat with you.
Hey thanks a lot for joining us today.
I'm super excited today to learn from you about improvisational comedy improv, and how our listeners can use that in their English learning and their English life.
Well, I'm really excited to talk about it.
It's something I feel very passionately about.
It was what I did my professional project on for my master's degree.
And what really surprised me was that there's not a lot of research in it.
Although I'm sure many teachers use improvisational techniques in their classroom, there's not a lot of focus on how extremely useful these techniques can be in so many applications.
Oh, that's so interesting.
So it's really cool that you've kind of discovered it.
You've kind of named it and you've started to research it.
So before we go any further, I want you to let our listeners know what exactly improvisation is.
Like what is it?
Well, in most performances, you have a script, you have props, you have costumes.
Improvisation doesn't have any of those.
What it has is people making those things and making things up.
Improvisation has been around for centuries.
People used to do it to help prepare actors for their roles, but actually using it as an art form itself was developed in the 1950s and further developed by Del Close in the 50s and 60s.
So now it's its own art form, and you can see it in every major city in the U.S. and Canada.
Oh, wow.
That's so cool.
It looks scary to me.
I mean, you're up there and you have to all of a sudden just come up with ideas.
I don't know how you do it.
Well, it's kind of like if you know an instrument, And it's pretty much the same as improv-ing with an instrument because you have training.
You know, people don't go up there and, okay, now make something up.
People always seem so surprised when they hear you're going to improv practice, for example.
It's like, why would you practice?
Why can't you just go up there and do it?
Oh, that's interesting.
But there are ways, there are initiations, there are techniques and those kinds of techniques, the way that it's taught to you.
I think that ESL learners could so benefit from as well.
Absolutely.
So it's like to become spontaneous on the stage, and maybe also for our English learners.
You need a certain foundation of skill.
But once you have that, you have the freedom to become spontaneous.
Yes, it's definitely a skill.
So don't feel so intimidated when you see someone think oh, that's something I could do if I had training.
I like that.
That's so interesting.
So Jessica, today I heard that you're going to give us three basic tips about how our listeners can use their bodies to get their point across when they're speaking English.
Is that right?
Yes, we're going to talk about how the techniques that improvisers use with their bodies can also be applied for ESL learners.
Yes.
Awesome.
So what can we learn?
What's that first hot tip?
Well, the first tip would be to open up, to use your bodies.
So improvisers are trained performers, so we train our bodies.
In the English classroom you might hear a teacher tell students to speak up.
Speak more clearly, enunciate.
But what they don't always do and what we don't always do is talk about how.
Our bodies are instruments.
So, if you can imagine, like trying to play a tuba, if you crumpled it up you might get a few sounds out, but it would be kind of So.
To use your body effectively, you need to open up and, you know, lengthen your spine, hold your shoulders back.
It's about how you hold your body.
So I'm not saying everyone has to do yoga or Pilates, but start building.
Maybe try paying attention.
How are you sitting in your class?
Are your legs crossed?
Are your shoulders bunched in?
Being aware of your body and when you stand up, to have your chest open, to be standing straight and tall with your feet shoulder width apart.
That will open your instrument.
And also it has the side benefit of being more approachable.
If you look at someone and they're folded up like a folded up trombone, that has body language saying don't come near me.
I'm scared.
I'm shy.
And also the opposite is true.
If you see the kid in class with his legs spread out checking his cell phone, his arms all over everything, that's saying I'm not interested in you.
Right, right.
So this is not only a way to speak more clearly on the service level but, more importantly, it's a way to engage in more conversations and therefore get better as speakers, right.
Because a lot of our listeners tell us that they have no opportunities to speak.
I mean, even if they're in an English speaking country, but...
Part of it is the way you present yourself when you're out at a party.
Do you look like you want to be approached?
Or are you in the corner with your shoulders, as you said, kind of hunched over, looking afraid?
No one wants to approach you because they don't want to scare you in that case, right?
Yes.
And this is something that's been borne out by non improvisation and non theater research as well.
I'm sure many of your listeners have seen the TED talk about power poses.
Yeah, we actually did an episode on that one with Amy Cuddy, right?
Well, if you like, like she says, if you just hold your hands up, but if you notice what does.
What happens when you hold your hand up is you open your body.
So it's about being open and physical in a way that invites others, opens your instrument and makes you starting you at a clear slate rather than like a crumpled up trombone.
Oh, very cool.
I love it how you call it your instrument.
That's so interesting.
I love it.
Thank you for that.
And what would be the second tip that our listeners can keep in mind about how to use their bodies when they're speaking English?
My second tip would be to mirror your conversation partners.
So, since it's so important to connect with your stage partner when you're doing improvisation, students spend a lot of time training with mirror techniques.
And this can be as simple as staring at each other and slowly mirroring the gesture the other person is doing, or as complicated as telling a story together while following one another's movements, one gesture at a time, which looks pretty crazy.
Um.
The purpose is to have a complete and solid idea of what your teammate is doing with their body at any given time.
So if I'm doing a scene with you and I'm not paying attention to your body, I might not notice that something I said made you sad or something I said made you excited.
So, Researchers, again, say that actually most of our interaction is nonverbal.
We use our eyes, tilt of the head, shrugs of the shoulder to convey what we mean.
So this is just a message to check in with your conversation partner.
Are you approaching that?
Like you know, since we know so many cultures have different ideas of what's appropriate to talk about, what people are interested in.
Am I stepping on your toes when I'm saying, oh, are you dating anyone right now?
That would be important to know.
Right.
So we can really gauge the response.
Interesting.
I think this is something that we as human beings, we do, right?
Because we have the mirror neurons.
I know there's a lot of new research out about mirror neurons and how they play into our conversations.
But your suggestion is to kind of amplify that, right?
Yeah, I mean...
You don't necessarily have to scan your partner their entire time, but pay attention to what they're doing.
Really check in physically with what your conversation partner is doing.
Go forth with a comment that seems to catch their interest.
Really try to gauge their interest, gauge their body at all times in the conversation.
Yeah, I know that sometimes we are so self-conscious that we're so focused on ourselves.
We're worried that we've made a mistake in English, right?
And so the message here maybe, is to put the attention outward towards your conversation partner and really be attuned to that person.
Well, I mean, as any person who goes out on dates will tell you really what people want is to talk about themselves anyway.
So are you asking questions?
Are you paying attention to the other person?
So knowing that people really want to talk about themselves and people really want to share information will help you, especially if you're really paying attention to what does this person want to say about themselves.
Absolutely.
I love that.
I love that.
Wow.
Okay, cool.
And what would be your third tip in terms of for a way to use our bodies to learn English?
Just feel better when we speak English.
Mm-hmm.
Well, my third tip would be to initiate with an action.
So that can work in two ways.
So improvisers use mime, but the improv world calls it object work, to build a world.
So maybe you're seeing... takes place in a mine or maybe it takes place in a little girl's bedroom.
So the environment will help you think about what to say next.
Right.
So you can use your environment wherever you are to, to decide what you're going to do.
Is it, you know, is it cold where you are?
Talk about that.
You know, are you in a, what are you doing right now?
And also like You can use.
Initiate with an action also means like if I see you, I don't necessarily have to ask about your life and have a conversation about your weekend.
I can smile.
I can shake your hand.
I can give you a high five.
Mm-hmm.
Every culture has a physical way to interact.
Is mine different than yours?
Do you bow instead of hugging?
Maybe I can learn what you do and maybe I can try to initiate with some physical action.
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The second way to initiate with an action is to literally initiate with an action.
So many of my students where I tutor say I don't know how to make friends because I can't speak the language of this other person.
Well, there are almost infinite activities that you can do that don't require a lot of heavy conversation.
If Keiko doesn't speak my language, go bowling.
You know, go see the Statue of Liberty.
Go do something.
That's an activity where you don't need to stress about.
Oh my gosh, I have to use my present, perfect right now to ask about their experience.
Right now, what do I do?
You know, interact with your environment.
What are we doing now?
Oh, my gosh, there's the skyline.
Take a picture.
So taking the pressure off of that constant need to speak, right?
Be in situations where it's not all about the speaking.
And then maybe you can ease into the speaking gradually.
Yes.
I remember when I was taking Korean classes in Korea.
Most of my friends in the class were Japanese and I don't think we had a longer conversation than talking about our favorite music artists.
But you know, we went to temples together and we went to Latte World, the roller coaster park, together.
You don't need to talk even with your best friends.
It's not all conversation.
You're usually doing stuff together.
Yeah, and I know that doing stuff with people really builds strong relationships, especially if you're doing – I mean, maybe you've looked into this on your dating blog, right.
They say – I guess there's a lot of research that says that if you're dating someone, doing something like scary or thrilling, like skydiving or mountain climbing, can bring you closer to the person.
Yep.
That releases a lot of hormones that will connect you to that person.
Yes.
Yeah.
Isn't that interesting?
So think beyond the language exchange, guys.
It doesn't have to be all about sitting in a cafe speaking English.
And working on, as Jessica said, your present perfect form.
It can be about skydiving with someone or mountain climbing with someone, or just making a simple comment about the environment around you that you both are experiencing when you meet the person.
Yeah, i mean, like i said, initiate with.
There's a very famous improv show called tj and dave, and every single show that they do starts with a physical movement and the whole show is based on that And, if you think about it, so many of our relationships with our native speaking people start like that.
Oh my gosh.
I remember when Mika and I went to see Niagara Falls and it was the craziest thing and she almost fell in.
And it's rarely like, oh, we sat and stared at each other and spoke English for 45 minutes.
Yeah, it's not terribly natural to sit and stare at someone and speak a language for 45 minutes.
That's kind of the urbanized, that's kind of what we've done to communication, right?
But get out there and enjoy life with someone, guys.
And you don't need to limit it to that cafe situation.
I love it.
Jessica, I think we're going to need to have you back to talk about each of these things at some point later.
Oh, I'd love to.
Yeah, because they're such rich topics.
I think a lot of English learning methods or podcasts or blogs really skim over the importance of the body when it comes to learning languages and speaking languages.
So that's why I love that we're addressing this today.
So thank you for that.
Oh absolutely yeah, this is awesome.
So let's just recap.
So I'll just recap what I've heard today.
So the first tip was to kind of open up the body physically and enunciate, Really pronounce those words.
Bring your shoulders back.
Stand up straight.
That was the first one, right?
And number two is mirror your conversation partner.
Like understand how they're reacting to you and try to follow what they're doing.
And number three, initiate with an action.
So either comment on the environment around you.
Or do non-speaking things.
Go out, have fun, engage in some activity that doesn't put the pressure on your words.
Yes.
Those are my three ways to use the body in both an improvisational context and when you're learning to speak English.
Well, I love it.
Well Jessica, I'm sure that our learners, our listeners, would love to know more about you, your research and what you're doing online.
Is there any place that they could find you online?
Well, you're always welcome to send me an email.
I'll put my email address on your blog.
Great.
But you can also if you're interested.
I have a blog about my rather insane dating life, which is hopefuldisasterswordpresscom.
Cool.
And I also, yeah, it's, that's pretty much my dating life.
I'm hopeful, but it's pretty much disastrous.
Oh, I know.
I feel your pain, Jessica.
It's rough.
Big city dating is rough.
It's really rough.
Now that's another topic that we could totally go into.
And I'd like to invite you back to talk about that.
That's really interesting.
I mean, it's, I think I go on one rather disappointing date a week.
Well, at least you're getting out there, right?
Okay, Cupid.
That's what I tell my students.
Okay, Cupid.
And okay, so that's great.
So the dating blog is one place to find you.
So that's hopeful disasters.wordpress.com.
And then you said you have a podcast coming out soon.
Yes I, my wonderful roommate, has begun a podcast, a comedy podcast that I'm featured in, called New York Pacific.
Cool.
And so that will be coming out soon.
We just recorded our inaugural podcast.
So I'll link to that from the blog once that comes out.
Oh, that's perfect.
And if anyone is listening to the show later on, how can they go to iTunes and find that?
Is it spelled N-Y Pacific or N-E-W-Y-O-R-K Pacific?
You know, I think that my roommate and his writing partners literally came up with the idea at midnight last night.
Okay, so it's totally new.
It's just being born.
I like it.
It's a baby podcast.
It's brand new.
Hey, got to start somewhere.
But guys, I want to encourage our listeners to check out Jessica's podcast and also her dating blog, but specifically the podcast because guys, at your level, it's time to branch out beyond just ESL podcasts.
You're always going to have All Ears English.
We're here for you.
But now you want to also challenge yourself.
Listen to a comedy podcast like Jessica's, or maybe an NPR podcast or something that's not just oriented around English learning.
Okay.
Actually, if your learners are interested, I could provide a top 10 list of podcasts to listen to.
Yeah, we would love that.
Could you send that over to me after and I'll add that to the show notes?
Sure.
Absolutely.
Okay.
Very cool.
Thank you so much, Jessica, for coming on.
This has been really fun and we're going to have to have you back soon.
Thanks so much for your time today.
Thank you.
Bye.
Take care.
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