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You're listening to TED Talks Daily where we bring you new ideas and conversations your to spark your curiosity every day.
I'm your host, Elise Hu.
Our original series, TED Intersections, is back for a new season.
This series features unscripted conversations between speakers and experts taking on subjects at the intersection of their expertise.
In this conversation, David Suh, a portrait photographer and TikTok's king of poses, sits down with startup consultant Molly Graham to answer the question, how do you find the courage to take risks?
They touch on a lot of topics, including confidence, authenticity, success, and how to find the real you.
I think I thrive on fear.
The bad version of it is I get bored easily.
And the good version is that I love being on learning curves so steep that I'm terrified I'm going to fall off of them.
I think I've learned to make it a trigger for like oh you gotta like try this or you gotta do this because you're gonna learn something and you're gonna learn what you're capable of sort of in spite of the fear.
Could I get you to tell the Red Dress story?
Can we tell the Red Dress story?
And then you can ask me questions.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK, so in COVID, I think you started playing around with social media, and you said that you put something online and it blew up.
Will you like tell that story and yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, quarantine, I couldn't take any more clients, right?
So I try to stay optimistic.
A lot of the peers around me were being really sad.
And I was like, you know what, let me see what I can do, right?
Let me take the abundance of time as a blessing.
So TikTok was a big thing then.
And I was like, what if I just share the joys of what I do?
And I wanted to tell like the transformation that goes on in my small Sacramento studio of my clients coming in really shy, disconnected from their bodies and then transforming into this like beautiful like human being in front of the camera, but I only had myself.
So I played both characters of myself as a photographer and then also my clients, except to play my client, I was like, huh, maybe I'll just like take the studio like red dress that we have and I'll put on myself a wig and then little flower crown, too.
And then I just acted shy, but also glamorous at the same time.
And I guess people really loved that.
You said it blew up.
Yeah, it blew up overnight.
And what did that change for you?
I was so focused on photography, I thought I would put all my eggs in one basket.
Of, oh, David can bring value to the world by being a photographer.
But I realized then that the more I can be me, it seems like I can bring more value to a wider audience.
And I was so focused on just like let me get better at this, better at this, that this was such a huge awakening to being David and exploring David to his fullest potential and just thriving as me and realizing, oh, I can be accepted by being myself fully.
Totally. That was like a huge, like, value awakening for me.
I also know you had a little bit of a similar moment of publishing something online.
Yeah, like 10 years ago, I'd spent probably six years at Google and Facebook, and then a couple of years helping build a little startup.
And somebody approached me about like, publishing some of the things that I'd learned.
it. I had this thing I used to say to people when I was coaching or mentoring them on my team about how you have to get good at giving away your Legos.
That was my phrase for teaching people to learn to let go of things and to embrace change as the companies that I worked on were changing and growing so fast that it's a very emotional process for people.
It often causes you to want to hold on to the past, right?
To hold on to what you know.
example. And so for some reason, my brain works in weird metaphors.
And I came up with this metaphor of like kinder our nerves, learning to share their Legos.
And so I published this article with these folks about basically saying one of the best things you can do if you're inside of these companies that are growing and changing is to give, to learn to give away your Legos, which essentially was like, learn to grow as your company grows, learn to change as your company evolves.
And I don't know, I think I did it as a favor to a friend and it felt like something that might be useful to people that were inside of these rapidly scaling companies.
And it was my first experience with something taking off and taking on a life of its own to the point where I didn't understand what...
I had people emailing me from big, old companies, folks from Safeway and places that I had not intended it for, and little, tiny companies.
I remember a founder in Nigeria emailed me and just said, this was just, like, so helpful to me, I can't tell you how powerful it was, and it really helped, like, normalize the situation I was in.
And for me, it was eye -opening in terms of, like, sometimes the thing you intend or the thing that you put out in the world, you meant it one way.
But it has this much broader audience and this much broader meaning to other people.
But it also taught me, like, I think I had spent a long time building companies And I thought that that was the main way that I was going to help, which is definitely a word in my career.
And then I discovered that there was a way to connect with people that I would never meet and be able to help folks that were on the other side of the world that I was never going to encounter through my day -to -day work, you know?
Did you get a lot of more questions that followed up?
Because it's all those things where when you help solve something, there's then there's more questions.
Yeah, it takes you on a journey.
Right, absolutely. You just get more, and you, I mean, for me, like, I started getting a bunch of questions from people.
I was like, I guess I can start answering a bunch of these.
Was it? Yeah, same thing.
Yeah. So I now do these things called Legos Talks.
Companies will, when they're going through hyper growth, but honestly just when they're through a lot of change they'll reach out and ask if I can come in and talk to their team and I always call them group therapy sessions because really what I'm doing is going in and just saying hey everybody it's going to be okay, you know everything you're going through is both like emotional and normal.
It does not mean anything is wrong, but yeah it led me to connecting with all these different companies.
And I think you know after many years it's led me to what I do now which is basically like coach and mentor startup founders and startup leaders.
So, but yeah, tell me, tell me about the kinds of questions you got after the Red Dress?
I mean, as you talked about getting response and questions from like different parts of the world, I'll get a bit of that too.
People, like people would enjoy the content differently.
Yeah, some people would say, wow, like you, the way you move your body reminds me of like an airline stewardess.
And that was like a big chunk of people, like that's what they were mesmerized by.
What about the whole transformation where I go from shy - Like, what about the acting?
They're like, no, it was - it was that.
I was like oh, wow.
They didn't care about the posing, but other folks are like wow, you seem to know posing really well, so like, David, what about me?
Because I don't look like you, and I'm tall or I have a different body, I'm curvier, I'm skinnier and all this kinda stuff.
And I just started to answer as much as I could.
I also learn so much from answering those because I also realize I didn't know the answer to many of those.
So I had to do a lot of the traditional photography education.
And everything I learned didn't answer a lot of those questions for me.
Because the questions were so human.
It was so like, David, what about me?
I want to find representation.
But that's not how I learned posing.
Posing was just, this is how you look pretty.
you create triangles and you make it like dynamic.
And like you want to look skinnier.
So do this and suck in your stomach. But that's not what like resonated with everyone.
Yeah. And that doesn't work on everyone.
And it taught me like a really big lesson of recognizing that I can help everyone.
But to do that, I have to shed sort of like this past knowledge that I thought was the bible.
And had to learn through just helping people for who they are.
I'm curious because I bet, well, I bet publishing online, in general, but I'm guessing in that first couple of years where you got more and more followers, was scary.
Like I'm betting it was scary to put yourself out there and to decide what to engage with and what to ignore.
So will you talk about that fear and like that process of learning how to do that in spite of fear?
Oh man, I mean, I thought a lot about risk and also the fear and I mean something that I had to really come to get better at is receiving the commons.
It's because overwhelmingly in the beginning there would be a lot of positive comments And I'd start to I start to create my foundation of confidence from those positive comments.
But I realized I would quickly crumble when I would start getting the negative comments.
Then I realized there's no foundation because I'm relying on like so many whether it's positive or negative.
So that was a whole doozy.
How did you find the foundation?
Oh, I had to do a lot.
I had to do a lot of what does David want?
What does David... What makes David happy?
And that's a whole different journey because I realized I do that for my clients.
I never found that same patience and kindness for myself.
That's a whole... that's a whole different journey.
Did you have any fears of, like, putting yourself out there?
Because there's so many, like, experts in that field of, like, operations, start -ups.
It's such a huge thing now, like, were there any fears around like judgment from that crowd who are also like experts in your field?
But also this new demographic of people who were looking up to you and who want to find like a breath of fresh air.
for? Yeah, I would say number one, I think I I think I thrive on fear.
Like I feel like my whole career, the bad version of it is like I get bored easily.
And the good version is that I love being on learning curves so steep that I'm terrified I'm going to fall off of I do think that being scared for me is, I think I've learned to make it a trigger for, oh, you gotta try this or you gotta do this because you're gonna learn something and you're gonna learn what you're capable of, sort of in spite of the fear.
And I'm a people pleaser.
So judgment is hard for me.
Your world of online comments.
I do a little bit of publishing on LinkedIn and Substack and you know I get a negative comment and it'll throw me for a loop, but part of it is because you can't be in a conversation with someone.
You know what I mean?
Like online's not great for that and when it's when it's a real conversation with someone like I can I can talk to anyone, right?
I can have like a thoughtful robust conversation with somebody I violently disagree with but online it's just people throwing throwing grenades, you place.
But yeah I think for me, where I found my like writing and publishing I've just had to work really hard to just do it like for me and basically to like publish when I'm like this is something that needs to be shared and I just like need to put it out there because I've repeated myself five times or you know I've said the same thing to three founders this week, that's when I put it online, because I think, oh, that's gonna help someone that I've never met.
And so there's definitely fear.
I mean, I think we both benefited from being risk takers.
Were there moments that like that risk actually like went south?
for sure. Then you have to answer that.
Yeah. I mean, I think went south is like such an interesting thing because like, what is failure and what is regret?
You know, I always say I don't really believe in regret because I wouldn't be where I am without everything I've been through.
And yeah, I think sometimes when I look back and I think about things that I regret or what I would say is like things I would do differently knowing what I know now, it was often because I was listening to the wrong voice inside my head.
And so much of I think the work of figuring out who you are and where your sort of like North star should be in life is about sorting through which voice in your head is talking when it says this seems like a great idea or you should definitely do that.
And some of the mistakes I've made have been because I listened to a voice that was all about like ego and sort of like I'd be so excited for people to think I was cool, you know, whereas like if I can listen to the more authentic voice that's about, like I said, about sort of like this is something I care about and I really want to make sure that you know, I do this or I learn this or I help people in this way versus like I want people to think I'm cool, like that, you know, those are two very different like north stars, you know.
I like the way you like think through that.
Yeah. I guess one way to think about risk is the more risks you take you start to hone.
Absolutely. You start to hone in on the authentic voice.
Yeah. You start to hone in on that north star.
Yeah. And you make older, more confident decisions, I guess, the more risks you take.
Yeah. I'm going to say something to that.
And then I'm going to make you answer the fear question.
But like, absolutely.
So my Ted talk is about taking risks and I use the metaphor of jumping off cliffs.
And I was doing the Ted talk a couple of weeks ago for this community of startup leaders that I run.
And we were talking a lot about where confidence comes from because - I'm excited for this.
Well, one of the things I realized is that I reached a point after a couple of jumps, what I would call jumps, where I took a big risk and I came out the other side of the falling part of the jump.
I reached a point where there was something that no one could take away from me.
And I think early in your career or work life, you're scared.
You're like, you don't know who you who you are.
And to some extent, you're trying to define yourself by other people's versions of success or other people's versions of like who you are.
And then for me, risk taking was such an important tool for figuring out who I was.
And to some extent, getting a confidence that like, sort of like, I can I know I'm good at stuff.
And even if I fail, like, it's never going to take away that sort of like intrinsic knowledge that I'm good at things because I've now been through so many different like weird scenarios.
You know? This is like belief, this like almost delusional belief of like who we are and like it's that supporting of that person and our belief.
But I do, I mean I also just think risk is part of how you deeply get to know yourself.
You know, you're not walking up somebody else's stairs.
Whereas you're kind of like trying to discover what you are and very much also what you're not, you know?
And in the process of that, you sort of develop that intrinsic sense of like, this is who I am, this is who I'm not, and to your point about like narrowing, like that then becomes much more clear about like, okay, this is what matters to me and like where I want to go.
But tell me about, tell me - What is this for your question?
Oh, no, sorry. The question that you asked me was about failure and it was about sort of like, trying things, and it not working out.
I'm curious, like, what role that has played for you in terms of, like, have there been big failures?
Have there been things that you like, look back on, and you're like, I wish I hadn't done that.
Let me think about this.
I didn't know you're gonna pull the Uno reverse card. I mean, I don't know if there's like, like the most recent one that I can think of, I don't know if I like really learned something from it, but I posted something, like, politics tangent.
And that was a nightmare.
That was nightmare.
So yeah, that gave me a big anxiety attack.
What did you do? So, it was just like a Kamala Harris posing like let's break down her poses.
Yeah, wait but what did you do when it like blew up on you?
Oh, what did I do? I just… Because you delayed it?
I just took it down.
You did? Yeah. I just took it down.
What do you feel like it's interesting because you're saying like this was authentically joyful for me.
Right. And I shared it.
And then the world did what the world does these days.
And what do you feel like you take away from that?
Sorry. What do I take away from that?
Oh man, I don't know.
It's so like my girlfriend, who's also a content creator.
She was like, David, you should just like, this is you, this is authentically you.
You should just like keep backing it up.
But that, like, for this one, I just, like, kinda lost the will to fight that one, you know.
So, I was like, am I bad?
Am I bad, David? Should I have, like, fought for myself?
Should I have stood up for myself?
But I don't know. I don't know.
Yeah. Well, there's some battles you don't have to fight, you know?
But it is interesting, like, maybe it's to the point about online and like there are moments when it's hard to be your whole self in an environment where it isn't easy to have a two way conversation, you know.
Yeah. I wonder if it's like as you talk about spaces, because if I shared that like it depends on the community that I share because I know you're a huge on community too.
yeah so I guess it's like can you can you be an authentic self in a setting that's yeah yeah totally that's open yeah yeah so I was like maybe maybe the thing to take away from this is maybe the the people weren't ready mm -hmm you know and and as I keep putting an effort to be as authentic as I can.
So also to realize, oh, not everyone is going to be a support for my authentic path.
Yeah. Yeah. Will you talk about what success means to you and what you've discovered about that on this journey?
I was thinking about that, too.
Because as we talk about risks, it's like, like if we have different, like, meanings of success, yeah, and like life goals and purpose.
Then like, risk isn't that important, right, to some people, depending on the goals.
So I guess for me, if I strip away just like, like scientific values, or like spiritual values and all that kind of stuff, and like other beliefs, and I just come down to okay, what is David?
Where is he at right now?
He's on a big planet and and there's never gonna be another David.
How can I keep pushing to find a way to - How do I say this?
It's like I just wanna find me.
I guess like, I just wanna find me.
And I also like growing up in Korea, very like homogenous country, right?
Like what's beautiful there is that Everyone kind of takes care of one another.
And we respect one another a lot.
But what's lost in that respect is sort of like that individual voice.
And success there is so clearly defined for the whole community together!
Education, college, get a nice job at Samsung...
That's a very clear path of success there.
And I guess having been fed that most of my life, the moment I started tasting a bit more of like, standing out for myself and asking myself, oh, what does David enjoy?
And supporting that with finances, with the right people, the right community, the right affirmations, validations, I'm like, oh, it feels great to be more of me, whatever that means.
And I, I think, so that's my, I guess, definition of success.
The more I can be me, which I'm finding out the more I help others, the more I can just be a light, I guess, be something positive to other people.
I just really enjoyed that and the more I do that, I keep learning and it's like this beautiful cycle.
Yeah. Yeah. I love it.
But what about - what about for you?
Enough about my definition of success, which took me a long time to get to but - Oh, yeah.
Well, I think it - I mean, success is a journey, you know.
At least in my experiences, like I think you often start out with your parents' definition of success, or somewhat - maybe it's a cultural definition of success, but for a lot of people, it's some external force that's older than you telling you what good is, you know.
And it takes time to figure out whether that is true for you, or if you have a different definition of success.
I also think success changes as you get older, like what it means to you and what you value, like what I thought mattered when I was in my twenties and thirties, like is not what I value in my forties.
And for me, it's been this massive transformation, And I think for, like when I turned 40, I really like leaned into it and was like, I'm thinking of this as halfway through my life, if I'm lucky.
And so I started to realize that time was just finite in a way that I think it just never feels like when you're in your 20s.
You're like, I have infinite time, I'm going to travel to every country and become president.
You know what I mean?
Like, you're just like, it's all possible.
And I think as you get older And as you know, you watch friends die or different things happen in life, you realize that time is like the most valuable thing you have and that being able to choose how you spend your time, it for me, that's been just like a punch in the face of like, okay, like 40 years left, 40 years left, 40 years left, let's say, hopefully.
And what do I want to do with that time?
And it's led me to also realize that like you know I think for a long time success was probably defined by some kind of programming or someone else's definition around title or you know fame or people thinking I was cool in some form or another and there was a really abrupt moment where I just realized that is not what I care about and that now I define success through joy and I just look for like joy in my day and literally like do I look forward to the people I'm going to work with, the work that I'm going to do, the time, the time that I get to spend with my family, you know, with people that I
love, I want to be joyful.
Most days nobody's, nobody's joyful every day, but you know, to be able to say that like 80 or 85 percent of days I'm like skipping into work and life, that to me is like the ultimate definition of success.
And I love joy because I was thinking about joy versus happiness.
No! That was so great.
It was such a wonderful conversation.
David and I are just gonna continue this.
I know. I want us to talk about comfort a little bit too, just the risk and comfort.
Yeah man, I know. Well, we're just gonna...
And joy versus happiness.
I know. Sorry, we're gonna continue the conversation.
This was so fun. It's so fun to get to know you.
Yeah. It's like I'm learning so much. Same.
Because again, as a, as a me, tiny 30 year old founder, I have so much to learn, so let's please continue this off cameras.
Yeah. Same. You're going to help me.
You're going to help me become physically powerful.
Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. That was a conversation between David Suh and Molly Graham for our original series, Ted Intersections.
Visit ted .com to watch this conversation and others from the series.
If you're curious about Ted's curation, find out more at ted .com slash Curation Guidelines.
And that's it for today's show.
TED Talks Daily is part of the TED audio collective.
This episode was produced and edited by our team, Martha Estefanos, Oliver Friedman, Brian Green, Lucy Little, Alejandra Salazar, and Tansika Sarmarnivon.
It was mixed by Christopher Fazie Bogan.
Additional support from Emma Tomner and Daniella Balerezo.
I'm Elise Hu. I'll be back tomorrow with a fresh idea for your feed.
Thanks for listening!
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