From LinkedIn News, I'm Leah Smart, host of Everyday Better an award -winning podcasts dedicated to personal development.
Join me every week for captivating stories and research to find more fulfillment in your work and personal life.
Listen to Everyday Better on the LinkedIn Podcast Network, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
From LinkedIn News, I'm Jessi Hempel, host of the Hello Monday podcast. Start your week with the Hello Monday podcast. We'll navigate career pivots, we'll learn where happiness fits in.
Listen to Hello Monday with me, Jesse Hemphill, on the LinkedIn Podcast Network, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hey, I'm Kwame Christian and you are about to step into the world of Negotiate Anything, the number one negotiation podcast in the world, where we teach you how to make difficult conversations easier while getting more of what you want in the process.
Each episode is packed with practical tips and strategies from the experts.
We delve into negotiation, conflict resolution, and leadership skills that are crucial in both business and in life.
Whether you're closing a deal, managing a team or navigating personal relationships, Negotiate Anything provides you with the tools you need to succeed.
Our conversations are real, relatable, and most importantly, rooted in practicality.
If you're ready to transform your conversations and elevate your negotiation skills, join me on Negotiate Anything.
Subscribe and listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you love to listen.
Let's make every conversation a winning negotiation.
Maura, thanks for joining us today.
It's great to be here Kwame, thanks.
Yes, it is our pleasure to have you my friend.
So, how would you get us started by telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do?
Yes, well we are both on the LinkedIn Podcast Network so that's part of what I do.
It's always weird to say that I'm a professional podcaster but I am.
I've had my second show The Anxious Achiever.
We're going into our 10th season, and I was a political consultant for many, many years.
I was an early practitioner of digital fundraising, using online advertising, using blogging, all kinds of digital marketing tools for politics, and did that for many, many years, both working on campaigns and for other people, and then started my own company called Women Online and we created issue advocacy, public health, and political marketing campaigns that mobilized women, and it was amazing.
I sold that company about three years ago because I really wanted to try my hand at going full -time on workplace mental health and helping leaders who manage anxiety or depression or bipolar disorder or who are maybe neurodivergent, so that offers them some challenges, right?
In our traditional ladder of success, you know, help people really find ways to live into their greatness and get support where they're challenged.
I care a lot about leadership and mental health.
This is great. And the work that you do is so important.
So I'm very, very excited to have you on to talk about that.
And listeners, make sure to check out the podcast. It is exceptional.
So we have to talk about this.
the definitions that we're going to utilize here because the term anxiety or anxiousness, it can be thrown around in a way that can be almost flippant.
And so when we're talking about these terms, what do we mean for the purpose of this podcast?
And then once we get that operational definition, we'll keep on rolling.
So I think the most helpful way to think about anxiety is to think of it on a spectrum.
So many things in life are on a spectrum, they're not 100 % one way or 100 % the other way.
And the thing to remember about anxiety, it is a natural and essential human emotion.
It is ancient. It exists in our lizard brain because it evolved as a way to keep us alive.
It evolved as a way to say, you know what, that rustle in the bushes means there's a threat.
Because the time I was out here before and there was a rustle in the bushes, a big old a predator jumped out at me right.
We develop patterns and it's our body sort of taking a physiological response to a perceived threat, which is really helpful in keeping a species alive.
And it's also very human, right?
Because we are forward thinking, right?
We are able to use references from the past to inform our future.
And that's a lot about what anxiety is and because we care so much and we want our species to live and we love people, and we want to be great, and we want to have friends.
So we have anxiety because we worry and we think about the future, and we have bad things that we reference in our life.
So anxiety is part of life.
You don't get out of here without it.
And anxiety is part of leadership because leadership pushes us to our biggest edge.
And the thing about anxiety is that it can be great.
We need it, right? think about when you are about to take the stage to give a presentation or it's your first day on a new job or your kid is about to be born, you're anxious but you have good anxiety.
You have what neuroscientists call good anxiety gets appropriate to the time.
It's probably going to go away when the thing is over and it's really motivating you, it's giving you energy.
At the bottom end of the spectrum is when anxiety is a mental illness and anxiety is the world's most common mental illness.
And the most common form of anxiety disorders is called generalised anxiety disorder.
Over a third of the population has it on any given day and it is walking around with anxiety that is significant, that may prevent you from doing things that you want to do, you can't get it out of your brain, maybe you're not sleeping well, your appetite is changed, you're just a ball of worry and rumination and stress.
And there are other forms of anxiety like social anxiety and panic anxiety, if you've ever had a panic attack.
And so at the bottom end of the spectrum, anxiety is the big deal, right?
It can really get in the way and the good news is, because it's so common, there's a million treatments for it and it's very, very common. And then, in the middle, and this is where just a lot of people are today, is when you have anxiety, maybe you don't have a diagnosed anxiety disorder, you wake up a lot of days feeling like something bad's gonna happen.
You know, like all is not right with the world, or Maybe there's a global pandemic and you're scared about everything.
Or there's layoffs in the news and your brain just can't stop fixating on, am I going to have a job in two weeks?
And that anxiety is like part of the modern human condition for a lot of people and I think it's really important to talk about.
That is without a doubt the best synopsis of anxiety I've ever heard. Oh, my God.
That was incredible.
And I think the thing that was most impactful for me is just how human you made this you've normalized this experience.
And I think there's a stigma that goes along with mental health issues in general, oftentimes.
But when we're talking about anxiety, it's a term that's used so frequently, but we never hear about the positive aspects of it.
We never talk about the fact that this is completely legitimate.
In a lot of cases is natural and essential.
And I love that description, at least for me, hearing it described in this way makes it feel a little less scary when I'm experiencing that because I just recognize, Oh, this is just a normal or typical part of the human expression of emotions.
A hundred percent. I mean, it's in the repertoire.
That doesn't mean it's comfortable and it doesn't mean it's easy, right?
A lot of big emotions like anger, we don't like sign up to feel them, but we have to learn how to feel them.
because when we don't know how to feel them, and I look at the workplace, is when we act out our stuff on everyone else around us.
We control people. We micromanage.
We're perfectionists.
We even yell, right?
We don't delegate. We work all night because we're sure that if we just work all night, we're definitely not going to get laid off, right?
And so we got to learn how to marinate in these feelings, how to have conversations with them, and how to treat them because they don't go away.
We just end up acting them out in other ways.
Absolutely, absolutely.
And Mora, this is an opportunity for some vulnerable coaching here before we get into the deeper parts of this interview.
Because when I was describing anxiety, I used the term normal, and then I tried to correct to typical, and I understand when we're talking about neurodiversity, semantics are important.
And I know that I was either right or wrong or wrong or right, or trying my best. when we're talking about this, how should we even talk about these topics?
I mean, I mess up all the time.
I'm always getting my terms wrong.
I think again, that's part of being human and vulnerable is that this stuff is new for a lot of us.
And if we're scared about talking about it, we're not gonna get further.
So I'm fine with whatever terms you use.
I mean, I think in the vernacular, anxiety is normal.
I've never met a person who has said to me that there is a period of their life where they haven't felt some anxiety.
Now, it's not quote normal to feel it every single day, 365 days a year, 24 seven.
You wouldn't want that, but periodically a hundred percent.
Okay, good, thank you.
And listeners, we're gonna keep that in because I just want you to know that like these conversations, they're tough, right?
Especially when we're talking about sensitive topics and perfection is not normal.
Well, and actually there was a study that a great organization called Made of Millions did, I think, in partnership with Yahoo a few years ago.
And they asked managers why they didn't talk about this kind of stuff at work.
And managers said, I'm scared of using the wrong terminology.
I'm scared of offending people.
I'm scared of triggering people.
I'm scared of reinforcing trauma.
You know, our mental health literacy is not very high in this country.
And part of what I hope to be part of a movement doing is really increasing that mental health literacy.
Absolutely. And your book and your podcast are doing great work in that realm, so I appreciate that.
Hello my friends, before we get back to today's episode, I want to ask you a question.
Have you ever wondered how to elevate your team's negotiation game and how you can help the folks on your team have better difficult conversations?
At the American Negotiation Institute, we offer transformative keynotes and workshops tailored to empower professionals with top tier negotiation and conflict resolution skills.
Whether it's a keynote for your next event or hands -on training for your team, we've got you covered.
Don't just negotiate, master the art with the American Negotiation Institute.
Click the link in the description to find out more.
Elevate, negotiate and succeed.
From LinkedIn news.
I'm Jessi Hempel, host of the Hello Monday podcast. In my 20s, I knew what career success looked like.
In midlife. It's not that simple.
Work is changing, we're changing, and there's no guidebook for how to make sense of it.
So come figure it out with me on the Hello Monday podcast. I've been a journalist for two decades writing cover stories for Business Week, Fortune, and WIRED.
And now, every Monday, I bring you conversations with people who are thinking deeply about work and where it fits into our lives.
Like Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella on growth mindsets.
The learn -it -all does better than the know -it -all.
Or NYU Professor Scott Galloway on choosing a career.
I think the worst advice you can give a kid is follow your fashion.
Or MacArthur Genius winner Angela Duckworth on talent versus grit.
Angela Duckworth Your long -term effort and your long -term commitment are surprisingly important.
Each episode delivers pragmatic advice for right now.
Listen to Hello Monday with me, Jesse Humpel on the LinkedIn podcast network or wherever you get your podcasts.
Jesse Humpel And so one of the things I'm really excited that to talk to you about is how do we have difficult conversations when we are experiencing anxiety?
Because these conversations are scary, they can be scary.
And what I'm recognizing is that a lot of times the struggle that people have in these tough conversations is that they don't even get to the tough conversations because they avoid them so much because of the anxiety and the fear that they're carrying.
And then if they do make it to the conversations, that the anxiety and fear has a negative impact on their ability to perform in the moment.
So for somebody who feels this emotional cocktail going into a conversation, let's focus on the beginning part, how do you manage that?
Well, I just want to say that one of the hallmarks of anxiety on its quote, bad side is avoidance.
And this is again, very normal when you really don't want to do something or you're really scared to do it, or you're certain it's going to be a bad outcome, you might just avoid doing it, right?
Just pretend it doesn't exist or I've coached people who have said I haven't said yes when my boss asked me if I was interested in a promotion because I was sure I was going to fail.
That's anxiety, and it's also avoidance, right?
So just understanding that you may be avoiding because of your anxiety is important, and again I really encourage professional help because it works.
So that's that. I mean the second piece I would say is that – and I'd love your expert advice, it's natural to feel anxiety before a difficult conversation.
It's natural to feel anxiety before a negotiation.
It's totally natural.
The fact that you feel the anxiety is not a factor in whether you go through with it or whether you do a good job or not, if you know how to manage it.
And again, to use that motivation, you know, what Dr. Wendy Suzuki calls activation energy, even, to rise to the moment.
So, I'd like to reframe and say, you're going to feel anxiety, that's okay.
Are you prepared and do you have a plan so that you can manage through and not let the anxiety stop you?
Because I think emotions, I don't know about you, Kwame, I feel like emotions could be really strategic in a negotiation.
absolutely, I mean, they're a ubiquitous element of all of these difficult conversations, it's just a matter of which emotions are being felt, by whom and what you do about it, And I love the fact that you talked about being prepared.
Preparation is necessary for these conversations.
But what I recognize is that a lot of people, they prepare strategically and tactically, but they don't prepare emotionally.
And that's an element of the prep that people miss.
That is such a good point.
I mean, I had a therapist once who really, like what she did is she helped me rehearse, she used that word, rehearse situations in my life that made me anxious.
And this could be everything from confronting my mother, or to having a difficult conversation with my boss, you're so right that we're often so scared of the emotions we might feel that we do everything we can not to feel them.
I can't tell you how many people I know who drink vodka before a scary conversation or difficult, or even going on stage because they don't want to feel the anxiety.
So we're good. Humans are good.
We will go to great lengths to not feel things.
And I guess if I had a plea to everyone, it's like, just practice feeling stuff.
You might be surprised.
Incredible, this is incredibly validating too, because there are a lot of times, because I, my whole first book, Finding Confidence in Conflict was about overcoming the fears of having difficult conversations.
It's funny because after doing all this work, negotiating more effectively, being a mediator, obviously my career is built off of it.
Sometimes I have a little bit of imposter syndrome where I say, man, you're still not over this man, you're still scared of this.
You're the CEO of the company, what's wrong with you?
You're scared, on stage, you did this last week and it was great.
Why are you afraid?
This audience is smaller.
It's so interesting.
And one thing that I've found and I think it's important for everybody to find their own way of having more adaptive responses to these situations, is almost just laughing at the sidekick of emotionality that I bring into these conversations.
Oh my God, the sidekick, right?
You might even have a name for it.
you might have a cartoon character, right?
I call my mom. But it's totally normal.
And actually all the data on imposter feelings, the more successful you get, the more imposter feelings you have because you're in better rooms. If you're not pushing yourself into uncertainty, you're not growing, but it's not comfortable.
And so again, like I think someone like you talking about this, people can be like, wow, okay, well if he feels it, then it's okay.
Mm -hmm. And again, word choice matters.
Listeners, I need you to pay attention to Maura's brilliance right here.
Maura, you said imposter feeling versus imposter syndrome.
Tell me the significance of that.
Well, I've been schooled by Dr. Lisa Orbey Austin, who's a wonderful, wonderful psychologist and a real expert on imposter blank.
Imposter syndrome isn't really a thing.
It's not in the DSM.
Like, it's a household term, but the imposter syndrome is really the imposter cycle, which is the feelings that we go through that keep us feeling imposter feelings, which is that we don't really have a lot of self -worth, right?
Or for whatever reason, we feel like a fraud, we feel like we don't belong.
Maybe we're treated like an imposter because we're different and we work really hard and seek a lot of validation and really push ourselves so that we get some kind of antidote to all those bad feelings.
But we don't know how to keep growing and keep doing it unless we keep feeling the anxiety and pushing ourselves, always, because there's not a core in us that's like, you know what, I'm good.
I'm good at my job.
I'm here for a reason.
Again, super common. 70 percent of people feel this way, or have felt this way.
And so that's the imposter cycle, which has really become imposter syndrome.
BOWEN I love it. I'm glad you said that, because as soon as I said imposter syndrome, I was like, Kwame, you know this.
you had a guest who talked about this before.
So I'm really glad that you said that the statistics, 70 % experienced this.
And to add on that, 29 % of people in that study were lying, you know?
So... Right, exactly.
Yeah, and I came to this conclusion a couple of years ago, it's one of those absurd realities of life where you just kind of laugh helplessly at how ridiculous it is.
Just said, you know what, my whole life I've been trying to get these degrees, accomplish things and everything, really chasing these feelings, hoping that I get to this point of security, because I see these other people who are really successful, they seem to be confident and secure all the time.
And then I realized, oh, this is just how humans feel.
And it was really empowering to just recognize that because I can say, oh, I've gotten to this point, even though I was feeling this way, and now I can find better ways to manage it.
But the fact that it's here is not an indication of the fact that I'm not worthy for whatever the occasion happens to be.
And I think for our listeners here, what they can recognize is as a leader, you're going to have to do hard things.
Part of leadership is also having difficult conversations and you're still going to have these feelings of anxiety and fear.
And that is normal.
It's totally normal.
And it's like I say, it comes with the job.
And just to echo what you're saying, like my whole job is to talk to important people about all of their vulnerabilities.
And so people tell me a lot of stuff and i am here to back you up.
You can be a billionaire, you can be a successful entrepreneur in Silicon Valley, I don't care whatever your measure of success is.
It doesn't mean that your inner life and your mental health is smooth sailing.
In fact, high achievers face more anxiety, and so you have to just really again just get comfortable with the discomfort.
Not that you want to feel this way all the time, that's not what we're saying, but there are moments in life that are going to push you to your edge.
And in our modern workplace, you're a little bit set up for it.
Egreed. And now let's advance the conversation here because we were talking about before the conversation, managing these emotions.
Now let's say we've overcome, or let's say manage these feelings that we're experiencing, and we say, you know what, I'm having the conversation.
And now we're having the conversation.
And then something happens, I say something, they say something, whatever.
And now there's a spike in my emotionality.
If you find yourself experiencing more fear and anxiety in the middle of a conversation, what should somebody do to try to right the ship in that moment?
So I'm gonna share with you something that is not mine, but something that I learned from Moshe Cohen, who's fantastic.
Do you know Moshe? Yes.
Yeah. He's amazing.
He's been on the pod before.
Yes. Okay, good. So go listen to his episodes.
He's been on my podcast. He has a technique called slowing down time.
Do you know this technique?
I'm sure there's other versions of it, but as an anxious person, this technique has changed my life.
And there's a physiological reason why it's important because when we get anxious, our body changes, right?
We may sweat or heart races, we may get jittery, we may get distracted.
And so it's really important that you regain control of your physiology and your breath, as well as your cognition.
We have panic attacks because we've lost the window on cognitive change.
Our body has taken over, it is having fight or flight and we are literally out of control, right?
Like, there's no thought that's going to bring us from a panic attack.
And so you don't wanna get there.
I've been there many times.
And the thing that Moshe's technique does so well is it incorporates breathing, trying to self -regulate through breath or just literally maybe not talking for a minute, trying to regain your breath or you may want to just subtly put your hand on your wrist and feel your pulse.
Anything that can just sort of take you out of the spin and bring you back to more physical regulation, and then to slow down time so that you can regain your composure, you repeat back what the other person has just said.
Or you could do an active listening technique.
So, Kwame, I hear you saying that...
you're not going to offer me the VP position, but you have another director -level position that you're interested in talking to me about.
Can you tell me a little bit more?
anything. You're just slowing down time so that you can get centered because I don't know about you.
When I get anxious what I start doing is I start talking too much and freaking out, and I get unstrategic.
Yes I can definitely empathize with that because I've been there before it's like one of my - is the meta -cognition at the back is saying what are you talking about can you please stop you can't stop?
It can be almost like an out -of -body experience watching yourself divulge all sorts of sensitive information.
You give away your power.
Yes. No, and what's really funny, let's actually talk about that word power, too, in this situation.
Because the example that you gave, I love this approach, slowing down time.
Even though internally you're struggling to control yourself, your pulse might be elevated, your breathing might be more rapid and things like that, but you're intentionally slowing things down.
And then, what I recognized is that even though it might feel like there is this storm brewing inside of you, when you slow things down, you can deliver a message in a very, very, very powerful way.
And I think the listeners, as they hear you say, they gave that example, it was a perfect example.
And as I'm seeing you, I have the benefit of seeing you here too, it seemed like you were in complete control.
it seemed like you had the power in that situation.
And I want to highlight that, because you don't need to feel good while negotiating well.
And I think a lot of times we feel like we have to, you walk in here with your cape, you're amazing, and you're just dropping all these lines and everything's flawless.
But really, a lot of times when you're very scared and very stressed, expert negotiators feel this too.
They slow things down and on the surface, they still look like they're in complete control while in the moment internally, they may be struggling to regain control.
But since they trust their skills, they do it, and they can slow things down and then get in a position where they can still function at a high level.
Absolutely. You know, I mean, the other thing I'll say and again as a speaker, I'm sure at some point, some speaker coaches told you this is that you can use a prop, you can grab water, you can pretend like you're getting a phone call, you can use a prop, you can change your body, because again, like in anxiety and regulation, you might want to stand up.
You might want to move in a way that isn't weird looking.
And then the other thing, and this is really hard for us is that we feel like dead air is a loss of power.
And again, when you're anxious, you probably want to fill air.
But you can use dead air and silence, I think also strategically while you're regaining your breath and your composure.
Absolutely. And I think we should spend a little bit of on props too?
I'm a fidgeter, so I always have to have props.
Yes, so go deeper. Let's talk more about it because I think this could be really helpful for folks.
Yeah, so, like, I probably don't need to tell your audience this.
But, you know, obviously our body language, right, is really important when we're in a difficult conversation.
And you might want to have neutral body language, or you might want to have powerful body language.
And that's really up to you.
But one of the things that I have learned and being a very anxious and fidgety person is that one of the quickest ways I could give away power and strength in a negotiation was to show my fidgetiness and to look uncomfortable and maybe even look distracted.
And I've learned a lot about this from my friends with ADHD as well.
So really working on ways to calm and still your body when it's strategic is important.
So I think having a prop can be really helpful.
Now a phone might signal that you're not interested.
So a phone is maybe a plus, maybe a minus.
If you want to signal you have better things to do, I guess that's good, but you know, again, phones are complicated.
So I am a big believer in the water bottle.
It just is. You don't want to go Marco Rubio, but you can always stop and take a sip of water.
But think about in that debate, listeners go look it up on YouTube presidential candidate, Florida senator, Marco Rubio gave away all of his power in a debate, because he just kept sipping from a bottle of, like, Poland Spring incessantly.
I remember that vividly.
That was bad. You don't want to become cartoonish in it too.
Because great negotiators can pick up on those tales.
One of those things that I like to do is...
I like to watch TV without substance, like reality TV, like sports talk and things like that.
And sometimes somebody is having a debate, and then you know that somebody landed a zinger.
The person is trying to keep a straight face and then they just grab the water.
It's like a baby grabbing the pacifier.
And if you do it too consistently, it could be problematic, but having it there from time to time.
Brilliant. It's about diversifying it too.
So for instance, I remember when I was in law school, the former dean of the law school, former Ohio attorney general, she was looking at the negotiation teams and watching us negotiate.
And she picked up on one of my tells that I didn't recognize.
guys, I like to play with my pen.
So I would do the pen twirling.
She's like, that's very distracting and I could tell that something was bothering.
I was like, oh, interesting.
So I need to develop some of this self pacifying behavior that people can't see.
So for me, it's a lot with the feet in my shoes.
So like moving my toes, that's like a bit of a meditation.
I'm always taking notes just in general.
And that's just a natural thing for me.
I've been taking those throughout this interview.
And a lot of times if I get more emotional or start to get stressed out, I'll take longer notes.
So the person's done talking, I'll keep writing and say, if you could just give me a couple more seconds to write this down, that'd be helpful.
And sometimes I'm not even writing words.
Sometimes I'm just scribbling and treating that like a meditation.
So I have different things that I can go to.
So I can say, all right, last time it was the water.
You remember five years ago when you drank all your water, then you had to go to the bathroom and you were all distracted.
So you're not going to go to that too many more times.
Now it's going to be notes.
Then going to be the feat.
So moving from thing to thing gives off fewer tells in the negotiation for me.
I love that. And I think the tells are really important.
One of the things that I do, and it's funny I've even been doing it now, is I put two fingers on my pulse as a way of regulating because my breath is often quite shallow.
But if I can just sort of casually keep two fingers on my pulse, which is very easy on Zoom, that I can feel it, and it regulates me.
The other thing, I just learned something so fabulous, which you probably know about, but Maggie Jackson is a writer, she has a great book out called Uncertain.
And one of the things she told me was the practice of using Q words in the middle of a high -pressure situation.
We get anxious when we focus on the outcome too much. So this has been studied a lot with people who have test anxiety, where you go into the test, you're during the test, and your brain is a million miles ahead.
Your brain has already failed the test. I'm gonna fail the test, I'm not getting into college.
My SAT is going to be terrible.
and what can help you again regulate and come back into the moment is using a simple cue word. They studied athletes as well, if athletes get again too focused on the end score, they get distracted.
Coming back in the moment and a simple cue word I use is in it.
I'm in it. Bringing yourself back into the moment is really helpful because again, when you lean towards anxiety, You're always in the future and the future is high -pressure That's so good I like that because like you said it keeps you in the moment and then when you think about it through the realm of Stoicism as well.
You can say, all right Well, I can only control that which I can control and the future outcome I can have influence over that But I don't have full control.
Let me ignore that and get in it And focus on those things and when we think about the word focus It's not just about the thing that is the object of our focus.
It's also the discipline and mental strength required to ignore other things that might be distractors as well.
That's right. And the outcome is the ultimate distractor, especially when we really care about it.
Absolutely. And one last question here for you, Maura.
Let's say if there's somebody out there in the audience who says, sometimes I feel anxious and yet I still want to achieve.
Are there any podcasts or books that might be helpful?
Look, I have built a body of work around the name The Anxious Achiever, because it's so common. The people that I work with and who are sort of my fans, all three of them, is that their anxiety is part of who they are.
I've had people say to me like, if I weren't anxious, would I still be good at my job?
And for a lot of us, the jury's out on that question.
That's how we're wired.
And I never tell people to stop their anxiety or control it or quit it.
You can't. So you acknowledge it, you manage it, you develop a lot of tools.
And then you can even use it, right?
So anxious achievers, we're out there, we're committed, we really care, we get stuff done, but sometimes we also get in our own way, so we need a lot of tools and a lot of awareness and you're in good company.
I love it. Maura, thank you so much for joining us.
This was exceptional.
Thank you. Congratulations.
You've just joined an elite club.
By listening to a full episode, you're now officially on the Negotiate Anything team.
So welcome aboard. What most team members do is they subscribe to the podcast because that allows them to automatically get the latest episodes of the show.
The best things in life lie on the other side of difficult conversations.
Keep learning, keep practicing and keep getting better.
Your relationships will improve, your career will soar, and you'll have the confidence you need to get the most out of these crucial conversations.
Again, thank you for joining the team, we're excited to have you, and I will see you in the next episode.
I'll catch you later.
