How To Master Storytelling ｜My First Million

All right, look Sean here. I don't want to toot my own horn, but

Beep beep. This is

This is an interview that somebody else did with me

David Pearl who you might know online as the writing guy he

invited me out to San Francisco and we did an interview for his podcast called How I Write and

My episode is doing so well so well. It is I have this little chrome extension

This thing is doing 11x 11x means it is 11 times higher performing than his normal videos

Something good is in this video that is doing 11x on YouTube and it's all about storytelling. It's all about writing

It's stuff that a lot of people ask me about but I'd never have taken that time to sit down and talk about it

Well, David got me to sit down and tell you everything that I know about the stuff

I hope you like it. I was a little sick during the interview, but it was my Michael Jordan flu game. I came I came prepared and I brought the heat

I'm really hyping this up and it's because I'm excited about it

I'm really proud of this interview. It's doing really well a lot of people are messaging me about it

So we want you ask David hey, can we run this on our feed?

You know, we took the took the episode from him. We're gonna run it on our feed

It's basically an interview where he's the interviewer and I'm the guest talking about storytelling and writing so if you like those two things

You're gonna like the steps. All right enjoy the stuff. I feel like I could rule the world. I know I could be what I want to put my all in it like a day's all

Story is a five-second moment of change. Well, what does that mean? You want to work backwards from the emotion?

The only things people will share is things that are LOL WTF

OMG, it's all about here South Park. So like what should I do next time I sit down to write the real break writers

I believe are great at framing their ideas. Oh interesting. So mr. Beast Steve Bartlett Dave

Shepelle Hassan Minnage those are the people I try to learn from you know, I could teach a 30-second master class

It's just this

Sean Perry is one of those guys that I

Really wanted to learn from I've spent a lot of time thinking about how to tell better stories by listening to good storytellers

But Sean has really deconstructed the storytelling process and you hear people saying all the time

Oh storytelling is really important. You should get really good at it

But there's not a lot of people who come in with concrete clear frameworks like he does

So this is a master class on storytelling come on in it's time to roll

All right my friends you've listened to this podcast you know

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I said this to you when we

First show cans but this podcast was probably the biggest increase in terms of how much I've admired a guest and

How much that's grown through the prep process and so I just want to compliment you on that

And in particular there's a lot of things that you do really well in your writing that I'm not good at and

There's one of those episodes where I just have a bunch of questions and I'm here to make by writing way better and the place I want to start is storytelling

I have no frameworks for thinking about storytelling before you do storytelling. Can I give you a compliment on your compliment?

Yeah, so great compliment first of all very specific

But the second is actually it's a writing tip which is I didn't

The thing you said where you're like, you know, I started kind of going down your rabbit hole and my like

Whatever respect for you or whatever you said like my

Whatever your score went up a lot during that process

I learned this from these two guys Dylan and Henry their young guys and they were like 21 when I met him and they were

Recording these videos. I was like how many views these get and they were like oh nobody watches these and I'm like

But you guys are like really trying like is it like someday somebody will watch these? He's like

Yeah, specifically we're creating a binge bank. I was like what's a binge bank? And he goes

It's when you basically stack material so that like even though each one of these if we just looked at the view counts

It'd be kind of discouraging like I'm not that many people read this or watch this

But they were like we started thinking about it differently instead we said all right each one is not getting that many views

But I'm creating a bank where if somebody ever said I'm curious about this guy. I want to learn more. What is this guy all about?

That in the next hour you'd walk out with like my reputation would be way higher with you right like you would feel like you know me

You would like me you would respect me and it changed the way I thought about that and so then I because I used to not I used to like be like very

Result driven it's like off. It's not immediately paying off. It's hard for me to get excited about it

But when I thought of the binge bank. I just thought oh I need to create this library that if anybody like if they was gonna do research

Is it a spend an hour or two hours going like down the rabbit hole? I need to leave a little bread from trail that by the end

He's like I love this guy. I'm all about this guy. Guess where I ended up

Guess what like the final thing was which was like the Shabang of all right

I told the blog post that I probably forgot about as my guess

That's like that 40 page PDF with all your main principles

That was like the pool I swam for the longest and I ended up there. Yeah, who knows?

But like that's that you leave that trail. You could probably should probably do it better but like this idea of create a

Binge bank

I think is so much more valuable than a resume or a portfolio

It's like people will come knocking they will get curious about you and like give them a way to

To just binge your content like it's a Netflix show and by after two hours

They should feel like you're the man. That's a goal. I think people should have so what do you do to do that intentionally?

Well, the first thing is like you don't get discouraged by like how small your thing is today

That was like the first part which is if you create something and the feedback loop is not quite there

You're either gonna just will power your way to keep going

You're gonna be a very wise person in save results take time. I'm neither of those things bad at willpower

And not that wise right like I I kind of know that's the answer, but it's hard so it's a way to trick yourself and

The way to trick yourself is to say oh yeah, I'm this one thing. It doesn't have to like go viral for this to be successful

This is for my binge bank. I know the idea of a bitch make is important

I want to have that as an asset that's there for me

So what are the 10 things that somebody should go consume and I started paying attention to that and start putting that together

One of the things that you are very good at is that I feel like you're just good at learning skills putting names to them and

This is a good time to dive into the storytelling. So I guess that you had this whole day

You're like oh, let me go check out Aaron Sorkin and he always comes back to like this one core principle

Tell me about what you've learned from storytelling and then maybe even like the meta of how you learn new skills

The storytelling is cool because you know

I

Think everybody intuitively knows storytelling is a pretty dope ability and I look for this mismatch between

Things that have a lot of value, but you're not taught or even better

It sounds kind of lame to say you're working on it like if I find that I'm like, oh, this is good

Another example of that to me is

enthusiasm

Anybody who's been around somebody who's like got high energy enthusiasm you like that person that's inherently like a

It's a very likable trait. Of course. There's a over the top of not just version

But generally you want to enter on the side of have energy have enthusiasm

Those are people you want to do projects with work with be involved with

But nobody will ever be like yeah, I'm practicing my

Confucius

Well, like I'm practicing this that sentence doesn't even compute

So if there's a thing that has value that other people don't practice or try at and even better

It's like almost taboo or lame to say you do it

I've found that those skills are actually like premium skills to me because you'd almost like differentiate yourself in the marketplace

Storytelling is another one of those joke telling is another one of those like if you're like

I am working on like getting funnier

They're like are you trying to be a comedian? No like you like funny people though, right?

Like of course everybody does whether its relationships work

Content creation whatever you're doing if you're a humor level if you're more humorous people will like it better

Nobody practices so it's like what do you expect just you know that's magically happened like we kind of know

Everything comes to practice everything is downshuried practice

So storytelling is one of those skills where I knew that I loved it whenever I met somebody who's a great storyteller

I wanted to get better at it

So then who's the best in the world at this right? That's the next question one of the people that came to mind when I

Google the round was Aaron Sorker and there he's written, you know famous TV shows

I don't even west-waying New Zero the social network movie

It's great for writing dialogue and in these interviews he says this thing

He's like they're like what's the key to storytelling like can you teach a like a three-hour masterclass?

He's like I could teach a 30 second masterclass like like it's just this

It's intention and obstacle and he said it even better it goes I worship at the altar of

Intention and obstacle and I was like I don't even know what the hell he's talking about

But the way this guy serious about it tells me like any though

God dig in what is he talking about so what does this mean intention and obstacle is just

Any given moment the the hero of the story whether it's you or someone you're talking about has to have a very clear intention

What do they want?

And under that is like why do they want it how bad do they want it what happens if they don't get it?

Right that's like goes into intention and then obstacle like who's in the way right?

So you know Harry Potter wants to live what's in his way Voldemort trying to kill him the most powerful

Wizard of all times trying to kill it right intention and obstacle and basically if you watch if you read any story

Or you watch any movie you should be a little pause at any moment and just point at the screen and just say what's what

They want right now and what's in their way?

And if you ever go like five minutes without that being clear people will lose the attention their attention will drift away and so

Once I realized that I made that the central premise of any story and what I realized was that

this was a

Incredibly powerful tool. It is the fundamental like building block of storytelling and

The more interesting thing which we can talk about is it doesn't have to be life or death

So most people think of it when like the example I even gave was Harry Potter trying to live and eat most evil words are trying to kill him. Okay cool

But you can shrink that down and actually you get bonus points when you can do intention and obstacle on a

Lower stakes moment. So I wanted a croissant and all the places were closed

But I need my croissant you need your croissant and the but the audience has to believe that you truly needed it

And you got to tell it be like you got to make them believe that you really wanted it

I did because you actually did right you know, you don't have to fabricate the story should be real. I'll give you an example. I was at a

Like executive offsite my company. I just got acquired like I put on the exact team of this now like 2000 person company and

I don't I feel a little bit out of place like I've never worked in a company bigger than 20 people and I wanted to use storytelling to kind of like

As a crotch as that's one of my tools in my toolkit. How can I use this to better myself? All right, so

We're supposed to go around the circle and like say what's been going on?

I'm like what's something what's this? What's something recently that happened that you want to share with the group some BS like

Icebreaker and every single person just did it in a work context. Oh, we're working on this thing

But then this person on my team had did this problem or they quit or whatever. Oh, we're gonna this thing

But then legal said this and it's got like boring boring boring and

I was like yeah recently had a big moment big day and

And okay pause right give people curious I

Said

I just moved out of the house young right sounds like I just moved out of the house

I'm living in my own place. I've been living there for a year now, but I've never invited my mom over

And my mom's in bad dream. Why don't you invite me over what she doesn't know is I'd never invite her over because I

Don't want to I don't know how to host. She was always the host if someone came over

I don't know how to do adult things so people are kind of laughing right cuz I'm but I'm like I was like I had been

Trying to get her to treat me like an adult, but the reality was

I'm like I'm not I'm actually still a little boy, right?

And so I'm telling the story about how my mom comes over and I decided to cook I decided to cook Brussels sprouts

Most adult food. There is problem is don't know how to cook Brussels sprouts

So I'm doing it blah blah and I tell the store cook in the Brussels sprouts

And I just kid you not everybody's like everybody's entertained they listened to it during the break

Everybody made a point to come up and be like dude that Brussels sprouts sort of hilarious

That was so those so funny like what was that? What even just happened? They kind of couldn't even explain it and

For me, it was just another example of using storytelling even on low stakes moments actually builds likeability and

fandom more so than the dramatic

I was skiing and there was an avalanche that's cool, but it's unrelatable and actually there's something fundamentally

Unlikable about it and I want to write

Uh usually if I want to write something it's because I'm trying to whatever I'm trying to have fun, but I'm also trying to

build an audience of people who like me or fans of me or

Get customers who want to you know buy my product or whatever. I try to use like the ability for that. It was interesting. I was at a

sort of a very fancy there's like multi-billionaires house and it was one of those dinners where everyone is like you know

People have flown in for the dinner and there's like an Olympian who's sitting across the table who was like a big fan of grown-up and

And we're all going around doing introductions and it's my time to do the introduction

So I'm nervous. I really want to impress everybody like one of my childhood heroes and not a corks

And uh, I you know sort of put myself up and I talk about and this is what I do for a living and I'm like

Frust you know, maybe everyone loved this and we're

We're hanging out after after dinner and back in my apartment my body goes

Yo, you did the worst job ever like

That was a horrible intro. It's like what do you talk about every word to the bone like have my one liners like ready to go

Crushed it. He's like

No, you were just trying to sound impressive in a moment like that

You tell a funny story or you make a joke and you lighten the mood you did exactly the wrong thing right

Yeah, that's a first of all great friend great friend can we call that out and you're absolutely right

Uh, I learned this from husband minnage the comedian because I was gonna go on stage

I was like hey dude like you do this for a living. I don't want to do this stuff and he goes you want to

Um, he goes comedy is a low status game

So he goes, you know, you're gonna be up on stage or you're nervous

So your natural tendency is gonna be to puff your chest out to kind of project

this profus provato

But he's like um actually what you want to do is build connection with people and you build connection with people through

um vulnerable through

Uh, low low stakes uh through um low status

Specifically, he starts his comedy special

I went and wrote it out to try to like understand what he does his last comedy special

He starts out. He's sitting on a stool. He's talking about how intention him and his wife been trying to get pregnant

Um, and they haven't been able to and they went to a doctor and he's like the worst news ever

It was my fault my balls don't work basically right like is there a lower status thing as a guy than to be like

I'd be on my junk doesn't doesn't just the way he

Like that that word choice is inherently funny exactly and so you know

He's obviously a master at this and trying to trying to learn from people who are like

I'm in business. I don't try to learn how to be a better storyteller or better writer from business people

Why would I do that? I would try to learn from the people who

Their thing is storytelling and writing or entertainment because they're gonna be the best at this

You know Aaron Sorkin

Comedians those are the people I try to learn from and so uh, I think that was one principle that sounds like you you learn the lesson the hard way to

How is storytelling different for you in writing versus speaking?

It's not that different um

In general one of my biggest writing rules is right like you talk

um, most people have this false

Uh, thing we do. I think it's from school like

School kind of teaches you like they're like read Shakespeare write these essays, you know, I need six pages

Uh, six pages minimum, you know double spaced, you know, all the stuff use a big vocabulary

All the things that don't work in the real world you learn in school

I think what school teaches you is basically just pretend like uh, hey be something you're totally not

That's what good writing is

In the real world. I don't think that's true. I think you know

Good writing is simple good writing is easy to read good writing is entertaining to read good writing has a voice

Um, it's not just like this

You know archaic sounding thing um, so anyways, I you know, one of the principles is right like you talk

So if I'm gonna write a story

I will actually say it first and then I'll just write down what I said

That's like a starting point for me because for most people and myself included if you sit down the like blank page

You know of death is like the most intimidating thing. It's very hard to even get started

But if you are stuck and so you just say

Okay, so what is the story like forget the words? What are you trying to say?

I'm trying to tell a story about the one time with the most spouts and blah blah blah

Um cool. What makes it interesting? All right great um

Where did it start? What's the start of the story? Well, certainly when I blah blah

And what's the end? Well the end was when this happened all right cool sounds like you got a beginning middle end

You know what happened and you roughly hit the outline

Cool, maybe now start writing and so

Uh

Write like you talk is an important principle and then the other thing is there are nuances that are different

So for example in writing

I'll use a ton of like parentheses because you can't do that in

Uh, you kind of you can break the fourth wall basically when when you write, but when you talk

It would be like me saying um

So we were going this way

You know, we always take that route right it's like that's a parentheses when you're talking when you're writing

It's actually much easier to do um

But when you're talking you can use pauses

It's a dramatic pause. How do you do a dramatic pause in writing? It's kind of hard to do you have to like use like

line breaks or

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So if you compare the two and like on your YouTube you should put these like side by side so people can see it and what other one was written by this guy Chris who created an app that was kind of like Clubhouse went super viral it was called secret back in the day I don't know if you remember this it's called secret with super viral they could raise like $100 million the founder like sold some secondary bought a Ferrari like it was like the hit product for like a very short minimum time and then it died so if anyone has the credibility to say why Clubhouse might fail that guy was actually the guy the problem was he was

extremely dry told no story and just said and use like very like 12th grade reading level jargon like Clubhouse's existential threat the time to value ratio like immediately felt like homework whereas my thing was everybody thinks X but I think why and more the most important part was here's how I think it's going to go down not here's why I'm right so here's how it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go

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is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is

like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like gossip it's going to go down is basically like

like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like

and so redirecting it I think is a useful tool you can redirect it towards I'm gonna go rock climb I'll go exercise I'll take my brain off of it. It can also be I'm stuck in the muck here and I need to just zoom out and that's it. Or if I'm stuck in the general to for example sometimes I'm stuck in the general like what do I want to be in life and like you know what I want to do and who am I and all this specific. What's the like what's the best idea you heard in the last two days. What like if you were gonna write about that what would it be or like what's the most interesting phone call I've had. I've had. I've had. I've had. I've had. I've had. I've had. I've had. I've had. I've had. I've had. I've had. I've had. I've had. I've had. I've had. I've had. I've had. I've had. I've

had. You know then you go specific because you're stuck in the general so it's a very useful thing to do is just like to get on stuck know if you're stuck in the specific general if you're stuck in the general go specific and you'll redirect the brain. I want to switch over talk about voice you're really good at putting your voice on the page and you do something very specific that I'm not sure how consciously you do this but you're so good at getting inside the head of a

reader to understand all right how are they feeling about this in the moment and basically you said earlier breaking the fourth wall and then by doing that building trust and connection and then it creates this friendly casualness as if we're having a conversation that my goodness that is levels away from most from what most writers are able to do. Have you ever read the boron letters years ago. Okay so this is must read. Yeah. Copywriting. Copywriting. I'm surprised you don't have them like frinked it out of your pocket. Yeah. That could. Yeah. That could. Yeah. That could. Yeah. That could. Yeah. That could. Yeah. That could. Yeah. That could. Yeah. That could. Yeah. That could. Yeah. That could. Yeah. That could. Yeah. That could. Yeah. That could. Yeah. That could. Yeah. That could. Yeah. That could. Yeah. That could. Yeah. That could. Yeah. That could. Yeah. That could. Yeah. That could. Yeah. That could. Yeah.

So the boron letters are this amazing thing by this like kind of renowned copywriter. Carry Halper. I think writing to his son. And he's in jail. So the writer is now in jail is writing to his son bond I think this is a name. And so it's like a series of 23 letters and I put their hard to find to really annoying there. There's like one blog. I put it. I hosted them on my blog now because I was like this is. Let's.

Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's. Let's

[스토리텔링의 마스터클래스: 의도와 장애물, 그리고 '빈지 뱅크(Binge Bank)' 전략]-[How To Master Storytelling ]

📋 Summary

스토리텔링의 핵심: 의도와 장애물 (Intention and Obstacle)

'빈지 뱅크(Binge Bank)' 전략

글쓰기와 말하기의 원칙

결론

🎯Key Sentences

📝Key Phrases

📖 Transcript