This is an All Ears English podcast, episode 1196, How to Estimate in English.
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There are so many moments in life when you need to give a ballpark figure or a.
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Hey, Lindsay, how's it going?
I'm feeling good.
I'm feeling good.
Things are good.
Midsummer here and I'm getting started here.
Hopefully at this time I should be getting started on my cross-country road trip going out to some national parks.
Actually, to be honest, I'm a little terrified of the bears, because Glacier National Park is supposed to have a lot of bears.
Oh, boy.
All right.
Well, you got to be careful, Lindsay.
Yeah.
You know, they say like hikers will run into bears up there a lot.
You know and any of our listeners, if you guys are in secrets of the Connected Communicator, you know our horse or bear lesson.
That was actually really funny.
But, you know, I have a fear of bears.
Oh, Lindsay.
Well, I wish you a lot of luck.
Be careful.
I think.
Yeah, I think the key in places like that is don't camp in a tent, just camp in a cabin, like get a cabin, you know, so you don't have a bear outside of your tent at night.
That's the point.
That is the point.
That's always a good thing to avoid.
Oh, anyways, have you been to any good restaurants lately, Michelle?
You've been eating out a lot?
Yeah well actually, you know what I was just thinking about one of my favorite places.
It's actually not a restaurant, but they have like a lot of food.
Like areas like right near Penn Station, they have this whole um what would you call it area where there are a lot of street vendors, and it's special, it's like a pop-up thing for the summer that they have.
Yeah yeah, i love them.
Yeah, those are great and they're awesome because the meals are like only like 10, like 10, 15 bucks or so, and and i actually think that the food is really good and i love the atmosphere.
And I mean, in New York City, like 10 or 15 bucks for a meal, that's a good price right, Lindsay?
Yeah, that's pretty good.
That's pretty good, especially if it's good food.
Right, right.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And I actually think the food is legitimately cool.
Like it's very unique, like very hip places.
So it's street food, but it's not it's it's different from your typical place.
So that's what I love about it.
Yeah.
So are they just let me ask you, are they food trucks or are they just stands like actual stands?
They're stands like.
They're stands that like will stay at, like they have it in, like near Penn Station and sometimes it's like near Madison Square Park.
You know, they'll have different things like that.
And I love that in New York in the summer.
And it's kind of cool.
You know, you know what?
Now I'm wondering if they are.
They're not trucks.
No, they're stands.
Yeah, no, I just I know like there's a big food truck culture now in Boston.
Yeah, I'm trying to imagine if the actual stands are trucks or not. i guess it doesn't matter i think they're just stands whatever they're they're they're stationary um and they're special so um yeah so i like them but yeah the meals are just 10 or 15 bucks or so it's good it's good stuff and it's definitely a fun place so if you guys are in new york you should go check those out you you'll run into them i promise yeah so 10 or 15 bucks or so that sounds like a pretty good price Yeah, not too too bad.
I like the 10 side much better, but 15 is okay too.
Um so Lindsay, on episode 1178, not too long ago we spoke about the phrase give or take and how it's great to show flexibility.
And I promised we would do a follow up on some other phrases.
And funnily enough, a listener asked a similar question about a different phrase.
So clearly this is very important and we're going to get to it today.
Definitely.
It's important to keep our promises to our listeners here.
So I like it.
I like it.
Guys, I hope you listened to that episode.
If you didn't, then go back, listen to it and come back to today's episode to listen to this one.
For sure.
For sure.
So the phrase is or so, which is so funny because they're like the tiniest words ever, but they can be so useful.
Yeah.
So the phrase we're focusing on today, again, you said it right at the beginning.
You said the meals are 10 or 15 bucks or so.
I like it.
That's a great that's a great little phrase.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, that's good stuff, Lindsay.
But before we get into the listeners question, we want to remind our listeners.
You got to head over to the IELTS Energy podcast.
Yeah, exactly.
Michelle, that is the place to go, guys.
If you're preparing for IELTS, there are so many listeners who are benefiting so much.
They're getting started with IELTS in the right way.
You're going to realize once you subscribe there, you don't need to go anywhere else honestly for IELTS preparation, because Jessica is my co-host and she was an examiner for 14 years.
So she knows the exam pretty much better than anyone anywhere, basically.
So guys go over and subscribe to the IELTS Energy Podcast and share it with your friends if they are also taking IELTS.
Okay, perfect.
That's awesome.
So let's get into the question.
Lindsay, could you read it for us?
Yeah.
So the person says, Hi, Lindsay, Michelle and Jessica.
First of all, I'd like to congratulate you for your outstanding job.
I listen to All Ears English every day on my way to work.
You help me not only improve my English, but also to face the crazy traffic.
Because I live in Sao Paulo, Brazil.
I have heard that the traffic is really bad in Sao Paulo.
So, all right.
I was watching a video lesson and the teacher said I did a project for probably about 10 or so years ago.
Or probably about 10 or so years ago.
And this phrase, so...
Does it mean it means more, but I have never seen this word being used in this context before.
Is it common to use this?
For instance, could I say last week I spent a hundred bucks or so.
If you could give me more explanation regarding this topic, that would be great.
Thank you.
Nay.
And PS, please come to Brazil.
We can't wait to have a native English power weekend in Sao Paulo.
Well, that would be awesome.
That would be awesome, that would be incredible.
So we'll work on that idea.
Hopefully, we'll have more live events around the world soon guys, so keep listening to the show Awesome.
All right.
So great question, Ney.
So, you know, this is a very conversational phrase.
Like I said, it's like teeny tiny words or so, right?
They mean a lot and they can really help you express yourself.
So what does it mean when you say or so?
It means approximately.
Same thing as give and take.
Give or take, right, Lindsay?
Yeah, so this means basically the same thing as give or take.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Right.
Yeah.
So let's dive into it more.
So Ney was saying that...
Or so could mean more, right?
So he says, or she says, I did a project for about 10 or so years ago.
In this phrase, so means more.
I don't know that it would always mean more, right, Lindsay?
No.
No, no.
I think it means more or less.
I think it means, yeah, it means the same as give or take.
We don't know.
It's approximately.
It doesn't mean more than 10 years.
Right, Michelle?
Right.
Right.
Exactly.
So maybe when this person said 10 or so years ago, maybe they didn't mean more.
Maybe you know that.
But if you didn't know that, right, it's just it's unclear.
It's about 10 years ago, right?
Exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Right.
Right.
So you can use or so in different situations.
So one would be if you don't know exactly how much or how many.
So for example, I want to invite 10 or so people to my party.
Right, Lindsay?
Does that sound natural to you?
Yeah, that sounds great.
Exactly.
Approximately 10 people.
You're not sure exactly how many.
You're going to go and check your friend list and see.
Right.
You're estimating, right?
It's an estimate.
It's a generalization.
Right, right, right, right.
Okay.
And what's another time you would use it?
So yeah, the second way.
So when you're estimating a distance or a time of arrival, an ETA, as we say, estimated time of arrival, you would say, you're not going to say I'm 13 and a half minutes away, right?
Instead, you're going to say, I'll be there in 15 minutes or so.
Right.
Because if I said I'm 13 and a half minutes away, you might say, okay, weirdo.
Yeah, that might be a little bit too exact.
Yeah, that's weird.
One thing, one way that I tend to handle this these days by text message is I'll say I'll be there in 15 minutes ish.
The ISH.
Oh, yeah, right.
Have we done an episode on ish?
I actually think we have.
We probably have.
I'll see if I can find it before the end of the episode.
But yeah, definitely.
That's another way to do it.
So that's giving you guys the general idea of what we're talking about here.
Right, right.
Exactly.
So in your question about last week, I spent 100 bucks or so.
Yeah, that's technically correct.
For some reason, I don't know why, it seemed a little unnatural to me to say last week I spent 100 bucks or so.
Lindsay, what do you think?
How does that sound to you?
Oh, yeah.
Because often, or so would you say it's used in thinking about the future, like the time you're going to get there in the future or like the number of people you're going to invite in the future.
Would you say that's why it sounds weird?
Maybe like, you know, you actually know how much.
But I would say I would actually say like I spent about 100 bucks about yeah, i would, but i i think it's okay like, i think we don't want to dig too much into this and make it too complex here.
So i think i think it's fine to say 100 bucks or so right, i don't think that, i don't think there's anything really wrong with it, it makes perfect sense.
Um, just some other options.
You could say i spent about 100 bucks, or i spent around 100 bucks.
You know those yeah those, for some reason it just fits a little better.
Um, but we're not gonna, you know, go too crazy on why?
Um, because i think that you, what you have is is also good.
Yeah, i think it's fine.
Yeah, i would say i would tend to say about, about about 100 bucks at the grocery store.
That would just be the most, the most common one for me, but everyone has their own style, so it's not wrong Right, right.
So guys, again, we talked about give or take.
We talked about now or so.
So this is the follow-up part that we wanted to talk about, giving you other ways to say this.
Yeah.
Yeah, so we're going to give you a bunch, because we've already talked about flexibility, approximation and the other episodes.
So you have to listen to episode 1178 because that episode is the best friend of this episode.
It's the best friend.
Good way to put it.
Good way to put it.
If you need to prepare for IELTS this year, go over and get started with the IELTS Energy Podcast from All Ears English.
My co-host over there, Jessica, was an examiner for 14 years.
You will not find better information about IELTS anywhere.
So go and subscribe to the IELTS Energy Podcast from All Ears English.
Thanks guys.
All right.
So the first one, the first two we've already kind of talked about.
So about, right?
So if I say I'll call you in about 20 minutes, right?
Yeah.
Or around.
So there are around six different cities that I want to go to in the upcoming year.
Yeah, that works too.
Ballpark, right?
Yeah.
Right, right, right, right.
Oh, that's funny.
A listener asked about the phrase ballpark recently.
So we're going to have to do another episode on that one.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Another one I like this one is more or less.
Yeah, more or less.
So you could say I gained five pounds more or less over the holidays.
Right, right, right.
I like that one.
I think that that sounds I don't know, that one's kind of fun to say for some reason.
And it's a little bit different than just about or around.
Yeah.
And then this next one, roughly, this is a little more formal.
Yeah.
And yeah, I would say I would use this when I'm trying to sound a little more intellectual, a little more formal, maybe a business space.
I walked the dog roughly two hours ago, so she could go out again.
Yeah um, i like this one.
It sounds smart.
Roughly yeah roughly, dog rough sorry okay oh, you and your puns michelle, you and your.
Oh my god wait wait, let's stop.
Let's explain that.
Let's explain it.
Listeners who didn't get it.
What's wrong with me guys today?
This is, you know, So roughly so I used a dog in that example.
And rough or woof are the ways that we talk about, or arf, actually, are the different dog sounds.
When you say, what sound does the dog make?
You would say, woof. right so i was making a ridiculous joke and i apologize to everyone it's kind of it's it's like a dad joke right we talked yeah that was a dad joke yeah oh my gosh i am i guess oh my gosh what's oh michelle michelle don't talk about dogs you remind me how much i want a dog so let's not talk about dogs Okay.
All right.
We won't talk about it.
There are no dogs.
No more dogs in all ears English.
Okay, guys.
So those are a few different ways you can say it.
So but let's notice this placement of the words.
You know, of course there are always exceptions, but I'm telling you how it's to me most frequently used.
So with about, I would say it probably before the amount.
So, like I would be more likely to say I'll call you in about 20 minutes right before the number, rather than in about in 20 minutes about right now,
Weird to me.
Yeah, we never say that.
Yeah, exactly.
So always before for that one, right?
Right.
What about for around?
What do you think?
I'll call you in around 20 minutes.
Let's see.
Yeah.
Yeah, we would never say 20 minutes around.
That's weird, right?
So, yeah, around 20 minutes.
Say it before.
Definitely.
Right.
More or less.
Let's do this one.
So, I'll call you in 20 minutes more or less.
Now, I would usually say 20 minutes more or less, but I would also hear it the other way.
I'll call you in more or less 20 minutes.
Yeah, I think it feels easier to say it after because yeah, for some reason it's more logical in my mind to say it after, but you could say it before and it would not be incorrect.
Right, exactly.
Yeah, that's what I think.
I mean, I don't see anything wrong with it the other way, but my inclination would be to use it after the amount.
What do you think for roughly, Lindsay?
Yeah.
So I'll call you in roughly 20 minutes.
Yeah, we definitely wouldn't say I'll call you 20 minutes roughly.
No, it has to be before.
Yeah, I would say.
Yeah.
I could see if somebody is like, I'll call you in 20 minutes roughly, you know, like they might.
Yeah.
But in that case, you'd have to have a pause.
You have to have a little bit of a pause.
Right.
I'll call you in 20 minutes roughly.
Right.
It's like you're saying you're not really using that to modify what you've just said.
You're saying something new.
Does that make sense?
Like you're adding new information, like almost like there's like a pause, a full pause.
I'll call you in 20 minutes.
I completely agree.
Roughly.
Yeah.
So if you're going to put at the end, you got to put that cute little pause in, right?
Yeah.
That's an art.
You guys are going to get there for sure with your English.
But for now, just start listening for this from native speakers.
Exactly.
So and finally, the or so, right?
So I'll call you in 20 minutes or so, right?
Somebody might say something like, I want to invite 10 or so people to my party.
So they may, you know, experiment.
You know where like so, instead of 10 people or so, 10 or so people um.
You know, I would typically use it right after the amount.
So I would typically say like 20 minutes or so, I probably, or 10 minutes people or so what do you think?
I think for me I use it both ways.
Yeah yeah, I think both conversationally speaking, I think I wouldn't I wouldn't feel that either are particularly weird.
I think yeah yeah, whatever you feel comfortable with guys um, whatever is easy is just to start using this.
Okay awesome yeah, so let's just do a quick role play to close it out.
All right yeah cool, all right.
So what's going on here, michelle?
All right.
You are helping me plan a trip to the beach.
And I am asking you some questions, which is kind of unbelievable that I don't know the answer.
I should be asking you about the beach.
I think you're more of a beach person than I am.
Really?
Because I hate the beach.
Oh, you do?
I thought you liked the beach.
No, I hate the beach.
I like to walk along a side of it, like on the boardwalk or something, but I'm not like a get in the sand, get in the water kind of girl.
I like the pool.
I was totally wrong about you.
Okay.
No, no.
Oh, no.
Okay, here we go.
All right.
Okay, so Lindsay, what should I pack?
Well, how long are you going to be there?
Probably about four days.
Okay, so bring a few pairs of shorts and make sure you bring pants too, because it gets chilly at night.
Gotcha.
Are there restaurants near the hotel?
Yeah, there are five or so restaurants right out your door.
That's amazing.
And how hot does it usually get?
It's usually around 80 degrees in the day and 60 at night, more or less.
Thanks, Lindsay.
I haven't been to the beach in roughly three years, so it'll be great to get back.
Very fancy.
Roughly three years.
Roughly.
Yeah, guys, that was a little bit more formal, but wanted to throw it in there.
So let's just go through this.
Yeah, I said that I was going to be there probably about four days.
Yeah, I like that.
And then and then I said, yeah, there are five or so restaurants right out your door.
And I think that the intonation is going to be really important for our listeners, Michelle here.
Right.
So if we say this very monotone, people may not understand that you're saying or so.
So listen to the intonation.
Yeah, there are five or so restaurants, right?
Five or so.
How would you say that, Michelle, with intonation?
Yeah, I would say that five or so restaurants.
Yeah, I agree.
I might say five restaurants or so, you know, if I might switch that order on that one.
But this is how I put it for this.
Yeah, but there is a certain intonation where you raise your voice when you're kind of estimating that is going to be important.
It's going to be important for you guys to mimic that.
So go back, listen again, start mimicking us and then start to listen for it and then start to use it.
But make sure you do use an intonation there.
For sure, for sure.
And then you said it's usually around 80 degrees in the day and 60 at night, more or less.
Yeah, 60 at night, more or less.
And then my favorite one was the roughly, right?
I haven't been to the beach in roughly three years, so it will be great to get back.
Yeah.
Perfect.
Yeah.
Okay, cool.
Awesome.
Yes.
Good role play, Michelle.
This has been a lot.
Gosh, we talked a little bit about the beach.
We talked about approximation.
We talked about, oh my gosh, this has been a A rich one.
So yeah, great question.
And before we get to the takeaway, we want to remind you guys, get the app on iOS.
Yeah, Michelle, exactly.
Guys, the app has so much more than the podcast has for you, right?
We have the podcast inside the app, but then we have other add-ons that you can subscribe to to deepen your learning, like transcripts, like a new vocabulary tool where you can save your vocabulary words.
It's super cool.
So go over to allearsenglish.com forward slash bonuses.
You do need to be on an iOS device.
We currently don't have the Android version yet, but we do hope to create that soon.
Guys, depending on how much you use the iOS one,
So go out and use it.
Okay, awesome.
All right.
So guys remember, there are so many ways to approximate, as we discussed in the give or take episode.
And this one.
It's important to know multiple ways to express this because guys, if you're too exact, sometimes it may sound a little odd, or
You may not always know the answer.
You have to give an estimate.
Right, Lindsay?
Exactly.
Exactly.
Guys, go out and try these.
I mean, there's a lot of places in your daily life that you can use this in English.
That's the other point.
That's an important point.
So many places where you're going to, as Michelle said, approximate things.
You're going to give a ballpark figure a general idea all the time.
So go out and try it, guys, and let us know how it goes.
Come to our Instagram channel.
Start a conversation with us.
For sure.
We love that.
All right.
Well, this has been a lot of fun.
Have a great day, everyone.
And Lindsay, I'll talk to you in a few days or so.
Sounds good, Michelle.
Talk to you soon.
Bye.
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