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Hey, I'm Kwame Christian and you are about to step into the world of negotiate anything.
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Brandon, thanks for joining us today.
Thanks so much for having me Kwame.
Yeah, man, it's my pleasure.
So how would you get us started by telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do?
Absolutely. So I work in the HVAC and refrigeration industry as an account manager.
The unique thing is I work for an industry trade association.
So our role is to help support two-step distribution in the HVAC industry and do the most value-adding opportunities for our membership.
This is awesome. And out of curiosity, which city did you grow up in?
So I grew up in the metropolis known as Tiffin, Ohio.
I bet you know a little bit about that place.
Yeah, I do. Yeah, so everybody Brandon and I are good buddies from Tiffin.
So we both grew up in Tiffin, Ohio and a lot of you are saying, where's Tiffin, Ohio?
That's exactly the point.
Very, very small town. But now we're in Columbus and we kept in touch.
So always exciting to reconnect and the work that you do is really, it's really interesting.
It's a really interesting gig that you have.
But what's cool to me though is the fact that you've been in sales in both of those positions.
So at the end of the day, you're still using the same skills.
But I think it's really interesting seeing the the commonality of the skill set applied for you in different industries.
I agree, Kwame. And what I really love about being on the non-profit side of things is how service-based we can be.
So obviously at the end of the day, dollars and cents are critically important to us being able to maintain and grow our association and our events.
But at the same token, we understand that we're not the first line item for our members.
But when they need something from our association, we have to be ready to serve.
And that's always been something that I've tried to instill even in the for-profit world is I always imagine if you can serve somebody to the best of your abilities on a small thing, the big things come a lot easier.
Yeah, 100%. And I think that's like the foundation of trust too.
If you start to get that reputation of coming through on those smaller items, then as the relationship develops, they feel a lot more comfortable going with you when it comes to those bigger issues too.
Absolutely. I've always kind of gone with the mantra, like the quick buck isn't worth the long dollar.
So that easy solution or sweeping it under the rug because it doesn't seem that big right now can really just create either challenges down the line or if you do it right creates so many more opportunities.
Yeah, for sure. For sure.
Can you tell the listeners about the difference between your first industry where you were doing when you were with Carnegie and where you are now?
Absolutely. So I read how to win friends and influence people post college because I was kind of having trouble as a millennial connecting with some of the older workforce that was in skilled position.
And what that book kind of helped me understand is how to better connect with people, how to be an active listener versus waiting for my opportunity to respond.
Once I kind of started instilling some of those Carnegie principles in my day-to-day life, those relationships got easier.
That distance between myself and my counterparts really strong to the point where we became friends in some instances.
So when I saw how not easy because you have to be intentional, but when you intentionally try to apply some of those principles that were written in the early 1900s in today's world and they work, you're like, well, this is unique.
So I went to work for Carnegie.
It is its own corporation, Dale Carnegie, is its own company.
And did trainings with them, led sessions, private sessions too for organizations, just helping them tap into their human capital potential.
And it was really rewarding to see when people had those like aha moments.
Because they always say like public speaking or speaking in front of others is one of adults biggest fears in life.
So when you kind of see that fear melt away and that confidence come out, it was rewarding in that aspect.
So now in my role with our association, we have over 900 member organizations throughout all of North America and now into South America.
So having that skill set to talk with others on whatever level they're kind of at.
One of the adages was you meet people where they are.
And that can mean physically, that can mean emotionally, that can mean mentally.
It's just kind of finding that balance.
And when you get the skill set to be able to do so, it makes those conversations so much richer.
I agree. And listen, this is so fascinating too, because a couple of things.
So first we're talking about those principles from Dale Carnegie.
And you, like you said, written in the early 1900s, but they still apply the psychology at the end of the day is more or less the same.
Humans evolve very slowly.
Right. Our societies can change rapidly.
But as human creatures, we evolve very slowly.
So the psychology that was at play then will be at play now, but just in different contexts.
And I really love the fact that you talked about the fact that you're a millennial.
I'm a millennial too. And when we're in the the business world as younger people, sometimes it can be challenging to create that connection.
And so for younger people who are having difficult conversations or just joining the workforce in general, sometimes they can be intimidated by the age difference.
And then they it almost creates these self-fulfilling prophecies where they say, oh, we're so different generationally that we cannot connect.
So for young people coming into the workforce, what advice would you give them as it relates to connecting with some of their older colleagues?
I think the desire to connect has to be there, right Kwame?
Because most of us possess the skills to connect if we truly want to or have enough desire to do so.
So again, going back to intentional, everything has to be intentional.
And it's even that much more magnified on the front side of relationships too.
Because we're human nature to your point as far as we make quick judgments on things because that's how we had to survive in the past, right?
We had to decide if something was, you know, frightening or not frightening.
Is it going to eat us or not?
You know, so like to your point about human nature evolving slowly, we still have that aspect as well.
So you can't always guide how someone perceives you right bit off the bat.
But you can guide what those next conversations are going to be like or how you present yourself.
And a lot of that also goes back to like empathy as well.
Because you know, you have to understand again, where are they at and where are you at?
Are you a threat to them?
Do they see you as, you know, potentially taking their position or something along those lines?
So there's always that innate fear, I think on both sides of the equation when you come into a new workplace, whether you're younger or older, there's that desire to be wanted.
Oh, Brandon, this is such a really good point.
When I think about it sometimes, when I think about some people who might describe challenges connecting with other people, oh, we're so different, we can't connect.
I think at the root of it, they might not themselves want to connect, right?
That desire, that aspect of desire is so crucial, so critical.
And I really think we don't spend enough time talking about that because we talk about the barriers and then we talk about how to overcome those barriers, but we don't talk about how to create that genuine desire to want to connect with people.
And I think now more than ever, when we're connecting through screens, connecting through text, we're always focused on our other things, and our attention spans are shorter.
I really think in a lot of cases that fundamental desire to want to connect and create a relationship isn't there.
I was at a keynote the other day, and a listener walked up to me and said, hey, Kwame, my favorite part of the show, it's the ads.
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For you, what was that driving force to even have that genuine desire to connect with other people?
Good question, Kwame. It's probably deep-seated within me because I'm the youngest.
For my oldest brother, it's five years older than me.
So that's a pretty healthy gap as far as growing up.
So when he was in eighth grade, I was just a little third grader, right?
But you want to play with your brother.
You want to play with your friends.
So if you're playing football and you get tackled or something like that and you get hurt, you can't let them know you're hurt because then you got to go up and mom won't let you play with them anymore.
So you got to be tough, right?
So I think that for me personally, some of that desire just came from being the youngest and almost like wanting to, again, have that be wanted to be accepted into the group.
So that's probably where my personal drive comes from to have that desire.
And I would say for others, if that's not their particular instance, what I tend to find is the valley is deeper than it is wide from people who don't see eye to eye.
It's typically like they share so many more things in common than they don't.
It's just the things that they don't share in common are typically like high flashpoints, you know, like really emotional based things burst out of like factual based things.
So that's kind of where I can see some of that massive divide.
And again, some of that's generational, some of that's experiential.
And once you start to see, and if you have the ability to recognize or if you have the skill set to ask the questions to help start seeing how that valley again, it can be bridge because it's not so wide.
It's so deep. That is so profound.
The valley is deeper than it is wide.
I think that's that's one of the most profound things that I've heard on this show.
That's so good because it makes a lot of sense that the end of the day where all people we want what's best for ourselves and what is best for our family.
We're just trying our best right to make it through day to day.
And we have different experiences.
We have different backgrounds.
We have different ages, whatever it happens to be.
But at the end of the day, we can still connect human to human.
And then we can build upon that connection and create a relationship.
And when you're thinking about those times when you've connected with somebody who is different from you, whether it's age or race or gender or just community, different communities or different companies, what are those tools that you can use to bridge that gap?
So I think open-ended questions are almost criminally underused in conversations like that.
And you have to be intentional about your house, your deeper questions.
Because if you're only going to ask closed-ended questions, your conversation can die really fast.
Which then it almost feels like, again, fulfilling that prophecy, we have nothing in common.
We don't, this is like talking to a wall-type deal.
So I think open-ended questions are very important when you're trying to build some of that rapport.
But at Carnegie, we had what was called a conversation stack.
So the idea was, if you ask this series of questions, eventually you're going to land on something where the light starts flashing.
So it would start with your name, then it would start with, and it's supposed to be visual in nature.
So it's a name plate falling out of the sky.
Then it's a house landing on the name plate.
Then coming out of the house with our children and family members, and those children and family members are wearing big work gloves.
And in their hands, they're holding an airplane.
And instead of propellers on the airplane, it's tennis rack.
And all of those little aspects are conversation starters.
So obviously the first one, name plate.
What's your name? That come from home.
Where do you live? What's that like?
What town is that in? Children, family, what's your family makeup?
Things of that nature. The work glove.
What do you do? What keeps you busy?
Airplane. Where do you want to go?
What's the travel? What's next on your agenda?
And then finally, tennis rackets.
What are you doing? You're free time.
What's fun to you? So the idea is you go through that stack of question.
And whatever you see that light up moment, whether it's their family, whether it's work, whatever you stay there, stay there, camp there, get as much emotional investment from that person at that time.
And then everything else flows the same.
That's incredible. I've never heard that before.
And I love the use of the mnemonic too, right?
The visual representation, because that's how you remember things.
And the wackier and sillier, the better, little fun fact.
I don't know if I've said this on the podcast, but that's how I used that.
That's how I did the TED talk.
I memorized the whole TED talk.
We're using the mind palace technique and the most ridiculous images connecting them.
So it looks like I'm looking into the audience, but I'm looking at the most absurd things in my mind.
So I can see how this could be really helpful in the flow of a conversation.
And it makes so much sense because just again, human to human, we're touching on some of those key elements.
Who are you? Where are you from?
That's an integral part of who you are.
Do you have a family? Tell me about that.
Your friends, family, those type of things, your social circle.
And where do you work? Big, right?
And then what you do in your free time?
Incredible. Incredible.
And you're right. And again, it sounds like we're following the energy.
There's going to be a lot more energy given to one thing versus the other, like what's giving them the energy?
It's one day it might be their family.
The other day, you know, their family might be annoying them.
It's so it's good. It's going to be their hobbies, but it gives you an opportunity to flow, find that passion, find that energy, and then connect in a really meaningful way.
Absolutely. And truth be told, we don't have to meet and mingle and match with every single person we meet in the world.
You know, it's impossible to put that level of connectivity on each individual interaction that you have.
You know, some days, some people are just down.
Maybe you're down that day and you don't really want to dive too far into it.
And that's okay. Because in all reality, unless you're at a conference or something like that, you're probably going to interact with this person, whether it's a worker, a member of your community, you're probably going to see them.
So it's not to say that the conversation has to die right then and there.
Some people are just a longer burn, you know?
Some people, it takes a little while to build that confidence or that trust.
But what I've kind of found in those type of relationships where, you know, it's not an instant thought.
Those are the ones where you keep like almost purposefully going back with a little bit more, a little bit more, and then all of a sudden the floodgates open.
And it's everything you thought it would be on the front side, it just took a bit longer to get there.
Well, man, I love this. I love this Brandon.
This has been exceptional.
I really appreciate this.
And what I really, what I love about this is how practical it is and actionable too, because people can take these tools immediately and put it into action to connect with other people.
So I appreciate you. Before you go, can you remind the listeners again about who you are, how to connect with you and a little bit about your company too?
Absolutely. So again, Kwame, thanks so much for the invite.
Really cool to be able to pull this relationship back together after, you know, all the years we spent in TIFF.
And so appreciate the opportunity.
Again, my name is Brandon Berza.
You can connect with me on LinkedIn.
I work in the HVAC and refrigeration space.
So our association, Hardy, is the largest association dedicated to HVAC distribution here in the United States and beyond.
So really, what we're trying to do is add value to the HVAC channel and to help our members grow their organizations.
But beyond that, I just enjoy having chances to grow both professionally and personally.
And most of that growth comes through interactions with others.
I always say, you know, stand on the shoulders of others to get to where you want to go.
We really learn best when we're kind of all pulling in the same direction.
Absolutely. Man, I appreciate it.
This was great. And listeners will put links to Brandon's organization and is linked into in this in the description.
Thanks again, man. This was really, really good.
Thank you, Kwame, take care.
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
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Okay. That's great. What do you think?
Hey, man. It's I give you what I got.
I love it. I was in here taking all these notes.
First note, go to Sedona.
But that's important. That's important.
That was good, man. This was really good.
And you were dropping some gems here.
The valley is deeper than it is wide.
That's so that's so good.
That's so good. Yeah. I'm pumped to share this one.
I'm glad I didn't dive too far in the Ralph Waldo Emerson because after I texted you that quote, I was like, Oh, God, I got to go out and buy all of his all of his essays and self reliance.
So in case Kwame really brings out his big guns.
I got a little like the stand on.
Listen, man, my my knowledge of like literature is low.
So it doesn't take much, man.
This is great. We'll blame that on our library.
We'll say we'll say that's the bread.
It wasn't Sister Maureen's fault.
She was no mad hand. I remember sister.
Oh, I remember what time, dude.
Oh, you'd love this. I think I was in detention or something.
I was there. I was there.
And I was like being punished for.
I think I had my cell phone one time.
And so I, what I did was I took a piece of paper and I put it into the form of a little box.
And then I took my wireless headphones and I slid it into the box.
And I put my headphones in and I was dancing.
And she said you can't have a cell phone in here.
And I said I don't have a cell phone.
She's, and then she looked at the box.
She's like, what's under the box?
I was like, there's nothing under the box.
And I just can't dance. And then she moved the box.
That was nothing. Oh, my God.
It's so stupid. Oh, man.
It's the little things, though.
It's the little things.
I'll tell you a funny one.
So senior year, Mrs. Hayes was our religion teacher.
And we were doing, I think, a novena.
Over the course of, you know, however long it takes to do a novena.
And one of the things is we each, she went around the room and we each had to pray for someone.
And when I got to my turn and I swear Kwame, I know I'm a class content.
I'm a jerk sometimes as far as like being a smart ass, but I was like, I want to pray for God.
And she was like, what? And I was like, well, think about it.
Everybody prays to God, but who prays to God?
And she was like, no, you're not taking this seriously.
And she kicked me out of class.
So I go down to the office.
And again, senior year, Mr.
Mass is pretty cool with seniors.
And I'm not typically a, you know, a troublemaker in the normal sense.
So he's like, he walks out and he's praying.
What's going on? And he's, I go and sit down.
So tell me, how did you get kicked out of religion class?
And I was like, I prayed for God.
And he was like, what? And I was like, yeah, Mrs.
Hayes asked us all to pray for someone.
And I prayed for God because everybody prays to him, but not for him.
And he was like, let's go talk to father Jim.
So he turned for and father was in class.
And Mr. Mass is at the door and he's like, hey, Jim, can we talk to you for a second?
So you know, father writes something on the board.
Everybody write that down.
But we go into father's office.
And he's like, what's going on?
I tell him the same story.
And he's like, let's go talk to Mrs.
Hayes. I get walked down to Mrs.
Hayes's office. Mrs. Hayes's room.
His glorious reentry into the class.
And then she gets pulled out.
And the hall is talked to Mr.
Mass and the father. You talk about really bringing that one all through the ranks of Calgary to get back to the winning team.
That's that's that's that's that's all this timing is perfect.
This timing is perfect.
Hold on a second. Hold on a second.
Hold on. Hold on. What a mom.
Look who look who's on the podcast because I'm hearing like in tears laughing.
Hello, Mrs. Christian.
It's Brandon Versa. Oh my gosh.
Oh my gosh. Hi, how's your mom?
My mom is wonderful. Good for her.
Tell her I say hi. I will.
I will. How are you doing?
I'm doing fine. Thank you.
Can't complete. Cool. That was awesome.
Perfect timing, man. That really was.
That's wonderful. That's wonderful.
So glad your mom's doing well.
Yeah. Man, this is good.
Well, listen, bro, I got to run.
I got to get to the next one.
But yeah, I'll let you know when this goes live.
I'm so excited to share.
And I'll let you know when I when I get my my A.J.s franchise.
All right, buddy. Let me know.
I'll be an early investor.
I love it. I love it.
