This is an All Ears English podcast, episode 1036.
How to get fancy and add Latin to your English.
Welcome to the All Ears English podcast, downloaded more than 50 million times.
We believe in connection, not perfection.
With your American hosts Lindsay McMahon, the English adventurer, and Michelle Kaplan, the New York radio girl, coming to you from Boston and New York City, USA.
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Today, Kadir asks us a great question about how to add in lieu of to your English conversations.
Today, get new phrases that come from other languages, including French and Latin.
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Hey, Lindsay, how are you?
Hey, Michelle, I am pretty good here.
Doing pretty well.
Yeah.
How about you?
I'm good.
I'm good.
You know I've been trying to eat healthier lately, you know, because I'm trying to be healthy for the baby and stuff like that.
So I'm trying to eat a little bit of healthier diet.
So I'm always looking up, like you know, because I'll really want something like really a lot of junk food, especially French fries, because You love French fries.
Even before pregnancy.
Yeah.
But that's like, you know, of course I want that now.
So like, but I always hear that having a baked potato in lieu of French fries is best because...
But it's so hard for me to not order fries.
When it's like, oh, do you want fries or a salad?
I'm like, it's this moment of, I don't know what to do.
I know what the right thing is.
It's like the good and the bad, like the angel and the devil on my shoulders, right?
Yeah, that's a battle, isn't it?
It is.
It is.
Do you ever choose to order one food in lieu of another?
Yeah.
Sometimes, like if, for example, they go out for breakfast and I order, I love, I love egg and cheese sandwiches.
They're like my favorite thing on earth, right?
A nice egg and cheese sandwich.
Yeah.
I've seen you eat an egg and cheese sandwiches but, like often, if you order a dish, it will come with home fries.
Egg and cheese sandwiches with home fries.
But sometimes I'll get fruit in lieu of the home fries.
But yeah, sometimes I just want the home fries, but I feel better when I get the fruit, honestly.
Of course.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I know.
I know.
So, yeah.
Okay.
Awesome.
Yeah.
So, we'll see how it goes.
Sometimes I make the right decision, sometimes not.
By the way, what's the difference between French fries and home fries?
I bet our listeners might be wondering what we're talking about here.
Good question.
So, French fries are usually what you think about eating more at lunch.
They're like the longer ones.
Yeah.
Whereas home fries are more of the breakfast food.
They're cut up more.
They might be cut up into little vertical pieces, or they might be cut up into just like small chunks of potatoes.
Yeah.
And they're often like pretty crispy, but you don't typically order like...
Like a burger and home fries, right?
It's usually home fries with like pancakes or something like that.
That's so interesting though.
Because essentially it's all just potatoes, fried potatoes.
Different forms of potato.
Yeah, that's so funny.
Interesting.
Okay, just wanted to clear that up for our listeners, just in case they were wondering if they're looking to order lunch or breakfast in the US.
Yeah, that's a no, that was a good point.
Lindsay.
Yeah.
So and well, so we're gonna get into it. special phrase in a minute.
But before we do that, what do we want to remind our listeners of Lindsay?
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All right.
All right.
Awesome.
Awesome.
So yeah, Lindsay, we were using this phrase.
What was the little phrase we were using in the conversation?
Okay.
Yeah, so the phrase was in lieu of.
Oh, fancy.
We're getting fancy today.
I know.
I feel very fancy.
And it is all thanks to Kadir from Turkey, because he is asking us a great question about this phrase.
Lindsay, could you read the question for us?
Yeah, we can always count on Kadir for the fancy questions.
Yes, thank you, Kadir.
Okay, so hey there, Michelle and Lindsay, how's your week going?
Even though I'm not able to attend your immersion weekend in the US, I feel excited for you guys.
Okay, so Kadir is referring to our Urban Immersion Adventure Program.
That happened in New York and Boston this summer.
Guys, keep your eyes open for the next immersion program.
We will be traveling to different countries in 2019 and 2020.
So it may be happening in your country.
So listen in.
Yeah.
Okay.
So he says, I am sure that it's going to be such a practical one for the attendees.
Let's get to the question.
I was reading a book called How to Win Friends and Influence People classic book, by the way, Dale Carnegie.
And on one of the pages, I saw the words in lieu of.
I had never seen that phrase before.
So I thought of getting some help from you as to what it means, how to use it and in which sort of context can we see it being used.
Thanks for your explanation in advance.
You help your students so much.
Kadir, 18, from Turkey.
Oh, cool question, Kadir.
And actually I want to say it's really cool that you're reading that book, because that book is a cultural icon.
That book by Dale Carnegie is so famous in our culture.
It's also quite old, right?
I think it was written.
I know my dad read that when he was just opening his business in the late 70s, mid 70s.
So unless it's been rewritten, there may be some phrases that are a little bit on the older side.
But it's good that you're reading it for the principles because it's referred to in the business world a lot in our culture.
Nice.
Have you read this book?
I actually haven't, but I've seen so many clips from it.
I feel like I don't need to, but I should.
I should because it's such an icon.
It's such a famous book in the business world.
Have you heard of this?
Right, Michelle?
Yeah, I haven't read it either.
But yeah yeah, it's definitely a famous name yeah, so i think that's going to be an important point we want to make today.
If he used this phrase in lieu of, i feel like it may be a little bit old-fashioned and and fancier than we would use today in everyday conversations, but we'll talk about it.
Right michelle, we'll get into that for sure.
Oh, of course, I mean yeah.
So, I mean, yeah, that's what I was going to ask you.
I mean, Lindsay, do you use this phrase in your everyday conversations?
I don't.
No, I don't either.
I mean, but you know it, right?
Yeah, for sure.
And...
And it's also important to know it because you see it in places like.
What comes to mind honestly, is when you see something written about a funeral and they say, in lieu of flowers, please send a donation to this charity.
That is actually the one place that stands out in my mind for the use of this word.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's definitely, yeah, I definitely hear that.
And I mean, I think that it's kind of like formal sounding, just not something that I really say ever, but I might see it written like in a scenario, like you were saying or like I mean.
But let's just get into it.
So what does it mean?
Okay, so...
Really simple.
It means instead of basically or as a substitute for.
Right.
So some examples we could say in lieu of party favors, we're making a donation to the Humane Society in honor of our guests.
I think this is a good example.
This is similar to the funeral example.
Really good written, often written or spoken very formally.
Right.
And this is so typical of how you would use it.
That's kind of like the quintessential way to use this phrase.
That's it.
Exactly.
But we've covered similar topics and kind of similar.
Yeah, we've covered this stuff in the past.
Not exactly this word, Michelle, but what have we talked about in past episodes?
We've talked about the word about instead of, right?
So how to use instead of.
And so if you guys go and check out episode 886.
Yes.
To learn about the phrase instead of.
So it's how to use instead of when you talk about ice cream and more.
That sounds like a fun one.
So go ahead and listen to that one.
Yeah, guys.
And remember, now you can search inside the app.
So if you're listening inside the iOS app, if you want to listen inside the app, go to allthearsenglishcom.
Forward slash bonuses.
Download the app right away.
And you can search just type 886 into the search bar at the top of the episode list.
So cool.
Okay, good.
And you know we're going to get Well, maybe we'll give the next episode later, when we get into the next thing that we're talking about.
We'll share.
So, but yeah, I mean...
In this situation, like you could have said.
I mean for the one about the donation to the Humane Society, you know, in lieu of party favors.
Because I've seen that too.
Like maybe if you go to a wedding or something like that, and sometimes people, sometimes they do party favors.
I feel like it's kind of like getting less common.
Oh, really?
Well, actually, I don't know.
But sometimes people just have something out like a card that says like oh that, like everybody is getting their name, you know that they made a donation to the Humane Society, or something like that.
But could you have said instead of here, instead of party favors?
In which scenario?
Let's think about the Humane Society one.
Okay, right here.
Instead of party favors.
You could.
I feel like though in lieu of is more commonly used in writings.
So I would see this in more like an invitation for this party or a wedding or something.
And then maybe, if you're in conversation, you're going to say to your friends oh, this year, instead of giving out party favors, we decided to have people donate in our name.
Yeah, that's a really good.
Yeah.
So it's kind of spoken versus written in some ways.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Exactly.
Yeah.
I think that's a good point.
Yeah.
And I just think in general, in lieu of is more formal, fancy sounding.
So that's why you might say in lieu of party favors.
Yeah.
Lindsay, do you ever use the word in... Would we ever say in a loo alone?
I've only heard that to be used to refer to the bathroom in British culture.
Right.
Going to the loo.
But I think that's a different word.
Right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, I think...
I can't remember if I saw any examples of loo alone, but just so you guys know, I think mostly I don't even know if it's ever used alone, but I would say it just like in lieu of right.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's a phrase.
It's a chunk.
So don't start breaking it up.
And we're going to show you guys.
Yeah, it's important to notice, you know, formal versus informal, written versus spoken.
We're getting into all these nuances for our listeners today.
Definitely, definitely.
And so this phrase, I looked into it.
It's a Latin phrase.
Yeah.
So this got me thinking about.
You know that we use a lot of Latin in our everyday conversation.
Still,
A lot of good phrases.
So it made me think of we have another episode to direct you guys to.
Episode 531 is where we talk about borrowed English phrases.
Right.
So maybe a phrase from another language that we use in our everyday conversation.
We've kind of adopted it into our everyday lives.
Right.
And in our English conversation.
So go check that one out.
So that's 531.
Yeah, check that out, guys.
And remember, you can type that into the search bar in the app.
Or, if you don't use the app, you can also come back to our blog allearsenglishcom.
Forward slash episodes.
And there's a search bar on the blog too.
So, Michelle, it looks like this word is not just from Latin.
It's also from French more directly.
Is that right?
Right.
Yeah.
I was thinking that Lou sounded like very French, you know like I mean, I've taken a little bit of French.
I took a couple of years on it and it just like all of a sudden he started ringing like French to me.
So, yeah, guys, this actually Lou, this phrase is also French.
It's not just Latin.
Right.
So it comes from old French.
So Lou, the dictionary says place, position, situation, rank.
Right.
So but it's from the Latin word locum.
Yeah, exactly.
That's kind of interesting.
Yeah, so our French listeners, let us know if you use this word.
Exactly.
All right.
Very cool, Michelle.
Cool.
All right.
Okay.
Perfect.
All right.
So I figured let's go Latin.
So what are some other Latin phrases that we frequently use?
Lindsay, what's the first one?
Oh, this is a classic one and I have a little story for this.
But so carpe diem, carpe diem, seize the day.
Right.
So commonly.
So the phrase, am I saying that right?
I was wondering if I say I'm saying it correctly.
Correct.
I think it's carpe diem.
Carpe diem.
Okay, I never knew how to pronounce it.
I think so.
Now, you know, I don't know.
I'll just say it your way.
Carpe diem.
So I figure I'll go carpe diem, right?
Seize the day.
Let's take advantage.
It's so funny.
I used to, like, I used to love this phrase and...
On Friday, we were having dinner with my best friend from middle school.
She now has like three kids and we've kind of lost touch over the years but we're trying to rekindle our friendship a little bit.
So the four of us had dinner on Friday night.
And of course, at the end, she broke out our high school yearbooks.
Oh my gosh, oh my god embarrassing right, when you're around your current friends and you have your old 20 years ago right, this is from 20, this is from the year like 1996 2000, that kind of thing.
Um, and one of the things i had written in my yearbook like my note to the future was, like carpe diem and i I was really into this phrase at that time
That's so cute.
It was so funny, like reading our notes to each other in high school and like old pictures.
So funny.
Oh, my gosh.
So, all right.
So, that's really funny.
So, that just happened?
That just happened on Friday.
And now we're talking about it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay, that's weird.
Weird timing, yeah.
So, yeah, Carpe Diem.
Seize the day.
Do it, right?
Okay.
Seize the day.
Yep.
Mm-hmm.
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All right.
And the next one is also a diem word.
So you can guess that diem probably means day, right?
So the phrase is per diem.
So what is that, Lindsay?
So the idea, you could say, you'll be paid $300 per diem.
Now, when is this used, Michelle?
This is often used, I think, when you're talking formally about a job.
Yeah, so you'll be paid $300 per day, right?
Yeah.
Yeah, that's what I think.
So, like certain careers especially, I think in, I have some friends who are in social work in New York and they end up.
Sometimes there are agencies that will hire them per diem.
I've heard about that in the like in the mental health world per diem.
Yeah, that that term is used a lot in that area.
Okay, nice, nice.
Okay, great.
And then the last one I thought is a good one.
What is it, Lindsay?
So that's what he said verbatim.
So verbatim, exactly, meaning directly what the person said.
Right.
I think this one is used.
Yeah, I think, yeah, this is the one that I'd be more likely to use verbally.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.
Yeah.
So guys, those are three additional Latin words or phrases that are still used in modern English, whether in writing or in speaking right.
I mean, and I just think this is so interesting because language borrows from other languages.
And I think it's cool when, you know, these phrases kind of still seep through into our language.
Did you have another one you wanted to add, Lindsay?
Yeah, I just thought of a bonus that I love because this reminds me a lot of the current political climate and commentary from political commentators.
But I love the phrase ad nauseum.
Ad nauseum.
What is that?
It means to the point of nausea, right.
Right, it's usually used when you are talking about someone else discussing something or going through something ad nauseum.
He went over it and over it and over it ad nauseum until i just couldn't handle it anymore.
It made me sick.
Oh my gosh, that is a good one.
So the definition says it signifies the topic has been discussed extensively and those involved have grown tired of it.
That's from the dictionary.
I love that.
I love that one.
I think that one is so cool.
I want to start using it actually.
Yeah, I like that.
I like that.
That's good.
That's awesome.
Okay, well, Lindsay, let's try these phrases out in a little roleplay, okay?
Okay, let's do it.
What's going on in this roleplay, Michelle?
Okay, well, I am your mom.
Okay, weird, but okay.
And you're telling me about a job interview you went on, okay?
Okay.
All right, here we go.
All right.
How'd it go, sweetie?
Oh, it was great.
They said I should hear back Tuesday.
You sure?
Yes, that's what they said.
Verbatim.
Oh, well, that's great.
Well, in lieu of going out for dinner, I'm going to make you your favorite meal tonight as a good luck.
Oh, thank you.
Also, the rate per diem is much higher than I'm making now.
Oh, wow.
That's great.
You always work hard to get all opportunities.
Carpe diem, right?
Thanks, mom.
Strange conversation, but it works.
Yes, exactly.
Exactly.
I felt like I was very I was being very like a cheesy, cheesy.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
So first I said how to go.
And I said, I'll hear back Tuesday.
And I said, Are you sure?
He said, That's what they said verbatim.
Exactly.
Right.
Yeah, exactly.
That's what they said verbatim.
Yep.
And then, in lieu of, I find it, I feel like it would be weird for a mother to say, in lieu of, to her daughter or son.
Guys, remember, we like to give you these, you know, I might say instead of, right?
Yeah.
But you know, sometimes in these role plays we like to just show you how it would be used, but definitely realize it's more in writing or very formal.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Talking about, again, wedding ceremonies, funerals, invitations, that kind of thing.
Right, right, right.
Yeah.
And then you said, oh, the rate per diem is much higher than I'm making now.
So also, you may not say that.
You may say like, oh, the salary or the hourly rate or something like that.
Yeah.
I think this per diem thing is much more industry specific.
Like certain industries use it to talk about being paid in a certain way.
Others don't.
You know what I mean?
Like if you're a banker, you're not going to talk about being paid per diem.
You're paid on a salary.
But if you're a social worker, you do talk about your per diem rate because that's how you get paid.
Exactly.
Yeah, it just depends on what you do for work.
Okay, good.
And then yeah, finally, I said, oh, you always work hard to get all opportunities.
Carpe diem, right?
Seize the day, right?
Right, exactly.
But if I'm following that rule, I should just quit my job and go sail around the world.
That's funny.
So guys, yeah, this has been a really good question from Kadir.
And then remember also ad nauseum we have.
And, you know, we got a couple other Latin words today.
So go out and let us know how it goes.
If you want to add any of these, remember how we said to use them in writing or not in writing.
But we went over a lot today.
So this has been good, Lindsay.
Alright, great episode.
Thanks for hanging out today, Michelle.
We'll talk to you soon.
Alright, bye.
Bye.
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