The stock has grown in the last year from a $7 billion company to now a $44 billion company.
$44 billion. Okay. You know what I mean?
That's what Elon bought X for.
This guy's selling libubus.
It's insane. It's crazy.
I feel like I can rule the world I know I can be what I want to I put my all in it like no day's all On the road let's travel Never looking back Alright, dude, Sam.
Do you know what one of these are?
Oh my gosh. gosh ramon will not quit talking to me about these things okay so those all right so for the listener sean's showing me what am i holding up they look like uh dolls basically in the same vein as a troll but i have gotten texts from my friend our friend ramon who says have you heard of this thing it's worth and he says the number and i'm like oh yeah it must have been a typo so what's the deal with these things do you know what they're called i don't super something something no this this is a labubu all right get yourself educated this is a labubu doll okay does it have a prada sign
on it yeah that's part of the part of the shtick here okay so what's the what's the story with these things this is basically the most viral toy in the world it's one of the biggest crazes since you know bbbs and things like that and so the story behind this thing is pretty crazy i just wanted to tell you some of the things that i know about it Of course, my wife put me onto this months ago and I just ignored it as the stock of this company is up like 7x in a year because this thing is going crazy.
Chinese company, right?
Chinese company, yeah.
So this is made by – these dolls are produced by a Chinese company called PopMark.
And the maker of it, this guy Wang Ning, he is now the 10th richest man in China.
What? And, like, he's adding, like, a billion dollars to his net worth in the last few months.
But he's, like, 30, right?
right? Or like he's...
He's really young. Like, dude, look at this picture of him.
Yeah, but Chinese guys always look really young until they don't.
Until they don't. Yeah.
Haven't you ever heard like all of my Asian friends?
They're like, we always look young and then we fall off a cliff.
All right. Can you see this guy?
Yeah. I mean, he could be 12 or 50.
I don't know. Yeah.
So this guy is behind this company, PopMart.
But it's kind of fascinating what's going on with this craze right like it's it's really taken over so somebody gave these to my kids as like a gift and i didn't really understand the significance of it i was like oh cool thanks i didn't realize that we were just gifted like a really important thing this is like one of the more valuable items in my house right now like these things sell for thousands of dollars the top ones can sell for six figures that's how crazy the uh the craze is for this okay so tell Tell me the story because this sounds like a good stock to short because that's typically
how these collectibles kind of tend to go, right?
Yes, I agree with you.
We'll get to that. All right.
So the story of the Labubu dolls is there's a guy who's an artist around 2015.
He's in the Netherlands.
He gets inspired to create kind of like a toy world.
So like a character world based on where he's at in the Netherlands.
And he designs these dolls.
These kind of like, look at their teeth, like the little like gremlin looking doll and there's hope for us okay because the experts are describing this um as ugly cute and it's succeeded because it's ugly cute and i just thought like our podcast i just feel like that just gave us like some wind in our sails for what we could do as well on youtube it's worse for us because we're not particularly ugly but we're not particularly good looking is there like a cute what the kids call mid yeah all right so So he creates these in 2015.
Not a lot happens from there.
But in 2019, so four years later, he partners with this company PopMart.
And PopMart was started about a decade ago because this guy Wang Ning had this insight, which is he thought that this kidult trend, we've talked about this before because you're into Legos.
So he's like this kidult trend, this kids toys for adults is going to be a thing.
Yeah. And so he creates this store and the store really takes advantage of this business mechanic called blind boxes, which I don't know if you've seen LOL dolls or mini brands where you buy the box, but you don't know what's inside, similar to like Pokemon card packs.
You buy the pack, you don't know what cards are inside.
And so this mechanic, which I think they call like the gotcha mechanic, creates a lot more spending, right?
People will keep buying because it's a little bit like a treasure hunt and you want to see what you can find, what you can get.
And this used to be a scam.
Like, I remember Logan Paul or Jake Paul was sponsored or did business with a company called Mystery Box.
And that was like a rage, like a very trendy thing for like three months.
Do you remember that?
Like 10 years ago. Yeah, like these loot boxes are in games and people know that, okay, this is kind of, it's not a scam per se, but it's basically manipulative, right?
It gets people to buy a lot more.
People get addicted to this thing.
And especially when you're targeting kids, which is why Logan Paul and those guys got in trouble was, hey, this is targeting kids.
The beauty of this is it's not targeting kids.
So the way these blew up is through celebrities.
Wait, can I ask a question about the company PopMart?
So he had a... PopMart, yeah.
PopMart. He had just a...
It was a toy company for a long time?
Or what was the origin?
So the story is 2010, he opens up a small designer store in Beijing and he's trying to build it off this Cadult Collectibles brand.
He starts selling blind boxes.
Labubu is not in play at this point.
There's other blind boxes that he's trying to sell.
and in 10 years they grow from one store to you know 300 plus stores 2 000 vending machines where you could just like it's just you know you just buy one of these boxes right right out of a machine it ends up going public in 2020 stock doubles on the first day this stock has grown in the last year from a 7 billion dollar company to now a 44 billion dollar company 44 billion that's what That's what Elon bought X for.
That's so insane. So before it became, when it was just a four or seven, I think you said, billion -dollar company, they just sold like dolls that people liked.
And so which a $7 billion toy company is, that's already a mega success.
So they sold other people's stuff.
That was over four years.
But yeah, yeah. They're selling collectibles of different brands, different IP.
And this is one of the IP that they have. and this doll alone like these these labubus uh did like 700 million last year so they're like now like almost it's it's getting close to about half of the revenue of the company overall because the trend has exploded and then they connect with this with this artist and so that brings us to where we are now yeah so the question is how did this explode where does a the thing that fascinated me is like where does a trend like this even come from how does this happen because it's totally irrational right like why this doll why not another doll who is it the teeth
is it the outfit is it what what is it behind it so there's some i guess learnings to have from this about like the psychology of a winning product so i just want to tell you a little story about how this happens so check this out uh exhibit a 2023 okay so this is a photo that you clearly can tell it's just rihanna like getting coffee or leaving a hotel she's going We're going to an airport.
And she just looks like it's not sponsored.
She's just being a lady.
And she has one of the toy bebops or boo -boos or whatever they're called hanging off of her book bag.
Book bag? Is that what it is?
It's a purse. It's a Louis Vuitton purse.
Okay, I'm looking from far away.
It looks like a book bag.
Okay, so she's spotted with it.
Hmm, interesting. At the same time, another trend is happening in Thailand.
In Thailand, people are starting to see these boo -boos for whatever reason as possible good luck charms. In Thailand, people are quite religious, and they started to view these as almost like a spiritual, like a little guardian that they could have with them.
And so that rumor starts to spread.
And then what happens is, do you know the band Blackpink?
Have you ever heard of this band?
No. It's like a Korean pop band.
This is one of the most popular pop bands in the world.
So it's a girl band, like Spice Girls.
Oh, I know it. Yeah, I like those guys.
I see their music videos.
They're very eye -catching.
yeah i know you're talking about uh well it's just like uh it's a sensation you'll go on youtube and you're like what is this thing with a billion views on youtube it's sort of like the sensation of like the bts thing yeah yeah exactly okay so uh okay so this is right here this is now we're talking about black pink so lisa from black pink goes to thailand to visit her friend her friend says hey what do you want to do today they decide let's go shopping she thinks okay we're gonna go go shopping clothes bags what are we gonna go buy but no she wants to go to pop mart and she says what the pop i
don't know what pop mart is but they go to a pop mart store at the pop mart store the friend really wants a labubu and lisa says honestly not into it don't i don't get it don't care about it blah blah but the friend gets super disappointed because they're all sold out and the lady at the store is like listen it's impossible you're not gonna get one and that little memetic monster inside lisa starts to roar the one in her stomach and she's like you know what if i can't have it i must have it and she decides actually i think i do like labubus and i think i do want to go get labubus and she starts to
collect these now she starts getting obsessed with pop art she goes she buys my boxes and she starts collecting these this becomes her de -stress type of thing she does from the the stressful life of being a world famous pop star Yeah.
Now, she gets caught having a labubu.
Why? Because she posted it on her Instagram.
So, now we're fast forward 2024.
This is the photo that created the craze.
It went from just like, you know, how a hurricane starts and there's like some sweeping winds, maybe a casual storm, a casual rainstorm.
And then comes the hurricane.
And this Instagram story started the hurricane.
game and it's her hugging her lububu can i say something i kind of get it that looks pretty cool it looks good for you too this photo yeah it's uh it's like an old white guy in overalls it's kind of what it looks like it looks like a farmer yeah this does look like a midwest farmer actually this i kind of like i i and it's big it's about two feet tall i kind of think that's neat i understand that yeah so they come in different sizes the the one that sold for over a hundred thousand that was like a human size one okay okay so this is the stock since that photo was taken and you can see the stock
is up 7x since then oh my god crushing and so the labubu craze starts and what you know what's interesting about this is why okay so celebrities started posting about it that's it okay i get that but what else so here's some of the other things that i found kind of interesting from a i don't know behavioral psychology point of view the first is the lipstick effect.
Have you ever heard of the lipstick effect?
I don't think so. So there's an economic theory that basically says that whenever people are under financial pressure, so maybe the economy is a little bit choppy, maybe there's inflation, there's wage pressure, whatever it is, people will opt, people think that you'll stop spending.
But what actually happens is you shift the spending.
And so instead of buying a new bag, you'll just buy some lipstick.
You'll buy a new your lipstick and so lipstick sales will explode at a time during economic pressure because you take away from bigger luxury purchases and they go into smaller luxury purchases so instead of a 200 outfit or a bag you're going to buy a $20 item instead and so people think that this is part of what's behind labubu which is that this thing uh you know initially started where these are like you know a $20 $25 box that you buy and you get a labubu but the thing with these the The smart thing of these is I showed you the doll.
This is the most important part, this little ring, because most stuffed animals, you just keep them at home.
So there's no virality to it, right?
You just have it at the comfort of your own home.
Nobody sees it. You don't get to show it off.
It's not a status symbol.
By just having the bag clip attached to these things, they suddenly became like luxury accessories.
And so that's why Rihanna had it attached to her bag and this Blackpink lady had hers.
hers and then david beckham is posting that and kim kardashian posts that she has 10 of them and she starts clipping them to her bags and it becomes this add -on to your luxury bag this cute little add -on that you could put on your bag and then each one of these has an outfit so i can take this off and i can buy new clothes for this and i can upgrade my labubu so now you have all can you spell labubu l -a -b -u -b -u oh okay i see by the way labubu is actually only one of the characters but that's just what it became called the the character structure called the monsters but uh nobody that didn't stick
oh my gosh i'm on their website i think it's kind of cool and so and so what what i think is interesting here is that you have this kind of what charlie monger calls the lollapalooza effect so maybe you have the lipstick effect causing people to look for little luxuries then you have the kidult effect where you have adults looking for uh you you know, maybe comfort and pleasure because that's another economic theory here, which is that when adults face stress from work and global events like wars and whatnot, they find emotional relief in collecting toys and things that connect with their childhood.
So you have that effect kicking in.
You have the lipstick effect kicking in.
You have the status symbol effect of this where you can attach this to your bag.
You have the ugly cute effect, which we are just crushing with right now.
And so all of these come together other to create the phenomenon that is Labubu.
Great, great, great job.
Good find. I've been hearing about this, but I didn't exactly dive deep.
So that's cool that you did this.
This is not sustainable.
And this is definitely going to go away in the next five years.
But let's get it while the getting's good.
All right. So I've built a few companies that have made a few million dollars a year.
And I've built two companies that have made tens of millions of of dollars a year.
And so I have a little bit of experience launching, building, creating new things.
And I actually don't come up with a lot of original ideas.
Instead, what I'm really, really good at, what my skill set is, is researching different ideas, different gaps in the market in reverse engineering companies.
And I didn't invent this, by the way.
We had this guy, Brad Jacobs, we talked about him on the podcast. He started like four or five different publicly traded companies worth tens of billions of dollars each. He actually is the one who I I learned how to do this from.
And so with the team at HubSpot, we put together all of my research tactics, frameworks, techniques on spotting different opportunities in the market, reverse engineering companies, and figuring out exactly where opportunities are versus just coming up with a random silly idea and throwing it against the wall and hoping that it sticks.
And so if you want to see my framework, you can check it out.
The link is below in the YouTube description.
So I started thinking, how do I make money on this?
All right. So the first way I should have have made money on this was when my wife started telling me about this which was i don't know six to eight months ago i should have either brought the stock i should have looked i didn't even think it was going to be a stock i just thought it was like a stuffed animal i didn't think it was a public company should have bought the stock or you know you could have could have tried to collect and flip okay that's too much effort so what's the play here so i went and looked up i asked ai i said tell me the last five crazy toy crazes as crazy as labubu over
the last 50 years and And compare them.
What were some of the other ones?
So it would have been Cabbage Patch. Cabbage Patch was the first one that it came up with.
Beanie Babies. Beanie Babies was the second.
I think Trolls were popular for a minute, but I don't know if they were a craze.
Then it gave me Pokemon. Pokemon cards.
Which had two bumps.
There was the one when we were kids, where buying and collecting packs reached about the same revenue, about $2 billion a year.
And then it died down for about 20 years.
And then recently, when Logan Paul started collecting them again, they had another peak.
And it had 1 .6 billion in its sales on the cards recently.
So, Pokemon. And then the last one it gave me, which was, I thought, kind of interesting as AI, but actually is a good point.
Because I was thinking maybe Furbies or Tamagotchis.
I didn't know what it was going to give me.
Those were smaller.
It gave me Stanley Cups, which actually makes total sense because it's the same thing.
It's the exact same thing.
And so, it gave me those.
And the funny thing about these is, on the scale, sale.
Lububu is actually still small.
So this doll did about 700 million.
Those all at their peak were kind of like $1 .6 to $2 billion in sales.
So I actually expect that over the next year, this thing goes even, the star kind of goes viral nova.
It burns out and it hits a $2 billion or $3 billion in revenue.
And then it's going to crash.
Because the funny thing with all of these is they all had about a two to three year peak tops.
And so I think the actual play, if you want to make money on this thing is to short PopMart stock starting around, you know, end of 2026 and, you know, maybe through 2027.
Now, shorting is dangerous because you can lose your shirt because shorting has sort of asymmetric downside.
But if you – I think if you were a betting man, the odds are that, you know, by 2027, this thing is not a $44 billion company anymore.
What was the name – Okay, so you had a friend, Michael, Michael Smith, Michael Acton Smith.
he had a the guy who created calm .com before he created calm .com the the meditation app he actually had a toy a stuffed animal toy company called like minnow monsters or something yeah that's right um what was the name of this and so his company was called mind candy and it was moshi monsters was the moshi minnow monsters was a mobile game and if i was his if i remember correctly i'm this is all 15 years ago so it's hard to remember everything but he raised lots Lots of money as a technology company, almost, or at least from tech VCs.
And he was like, I'm going to build a massive toy business.
And I remember reading at the time, this is insane.
You're stupid. But now that I think about it, there's been many examples of where that is not stupid.
And this is yet another one of them where you could actually build a really cool IP toy company.
And he was sounds like he was on the right track.
It didn't work out.
It was big in the UK.
So in the UK, it was like, I don't know, one out of every three kids is playing Moshi Monsters.
it was like insane it was like 90 million users globally and i remember meeting him i think it was still during the kind of like it was kind of like the tail end of the peak so it was big but it was it had stopped exploding and he was like that's okay we're gonna like try to turn this into a thing and he was telling me they're making moshi shampoo and body wash and you know it's going into every category but unfortunately that one didn't work out we have to get michael on by the way i was gonna say that we have to get michael in the pod because have you met him he is one of the coolest guys uh
i've met he's such a nice guy first of all like total genuine good dude super creative really creative genius and then also like a rock star kind of like when you meet him you're like oh i'm talking to russell brandz like you know cooler but cooler brother you should everyone should google him his name is michael acton smith and i remember back in 14 or 13 or 12 where I mean I'm still interested in this but I was like I want to be like I was like looking for a person I wanted to be like and it was like him he would be yes yeah there was like photos of him like holding hands with like Paris Hilton or like
he was like if you Google like Michael Acton Smith like he they're not even dating that's the best part just hold their hands he was like he had like paparazzi photos of him because he would have this like tech angle even though it wasn't exactly in tech but if you guys Google him and see what he looks like you'll understand he looks looks like the Daily Telegraph described him as a rock star version of Willy Wonka that's his Wikipedia page it's great this guy was so cool and now he has since started calm which I have no idea how big it is but it's hundreds or hundreds of millions or billions
a multi -billion dollar company he's the man this guy's absolutely the man and he's been the man for 20 years he has he has he is he's amazing okay I'm gonna call him after this and be like I will fly to you let's do an episode because where's he even live now i think he was in the uk uh he was kind of back and forth between like you know us and uk i think he's in the uk now he's just like a rich guy now he just like does what he wants well i don't know i think he always did what he wants that's why he was uh that's why he was our hero that's the difference between that to do with being rich that's
the difference between guys like me and guys like him i guess like he exactly you guys money and money chased him yeah He didn't run very fast. This guy's the man.
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Okay, I have another one for you.
Can I give you another one?
So we did kids' toys.
I have another one.
You might know the story of this one.
Have you ever had one of these before?
Okay, what's this? Oh, I'm holding up.
No, it looks like, what is that, bubble gum?
A box of Tony's Chocoloni.
Hell yeah, brother.
I love Tony's Chocoloni.
Do they have something that had Pop Rocks in them?
Oh, I've been saying it wrong for a long time.
it's not Tony's Chocolony it's Tony's Chocolonely I just call it Tony's I love Tony's I have always bought them and then when we hung out with Mr. Beast he told us the backstory I didn't realize how amazing they were I love Tony's and their backstory is even better than I thought because when we were hanging out with Jimmy he was like he for Feastables really wanted to get Feastables to have a supply chain that had no child labor He's like, you know, most of the cocoa farms in Africa have child labor, all the big chocolate brands, you know, Hershey's, etc. They all buy from them.
When I learned that, that was effed up.
I went over there and we basically been spending, you know, a couple of years now trying to fix the supply chain so that that doesn't have to be the case.
He was like, every company, I don't like this, this or that thing about them, but there's one company that I really admire that seems to be doing something well.
And I think that's how he phrased it.
And he said, Tony's is the one.
They do things right.
Exactly. And he actually called the founders of this and learned from them of like, okay, what do I need to do?
Which is cool because they were the ones who initially made the push.
But do you know the backstory of why they made the push into doing this?
Wasn't it started by an actor or a famous person in Holland or something like that?
A journalist. A journalist. Okay.
It was like a non -business person who started it, and they started it.
It's one of these cool stories where they didn't so much care about chocolate.
They cared about helping the earth or human rights or something.
And we just so happened to be doing it via chocolate like it was something like story like that wasn't it so the story is um these i think there was two uh dust journalists but these two just journalists they're covering the chocolate industry on their tv show and um they hear about you know that the chocolate companies are all the chocolate all the cocoa comes from west africa and that there's a lot of child yeah slavery and child labor so two separate things right slavery and then child labor happening on the farms there.
So they want to go and investigate.
So they go down there, they investigate, they find that it's true.
And they put out a story to try to help.
And I think the exact story is that at one point, all the big chocolate companies signed like a treaty.
They signed like a pact to say, we're going to stop this.
And I guess like years later, they had gone back and they had gone to investigate.
investigate and it was like the exact same situation.
They saw that it kind of nothing had really changed.
And so these guys are pretty disheartened by it.
So they decide like, this is where the story gets crazy because a normal person, even a normal, a great journalist would just report the story, maybe use some, some, some choice language when they, when they talk about it and then they would shake their finger at them and move on.
But these journalists went and did like, you know, took the exit off of high agency Avenue and we're like, no, no, no, watch this and so the guys they come back and they do they decide to do a publicity stunt so he eats the chocolate and he calls the police and the police come and they're like what are you doing and he goes I'm eating chocolate that was made with slave labor and child labor and they're like that's what that's not a you're eating chocolate that's not a crime he goes no no actually according to statute blah blah blah knowingly consuming this product knowing what I know that this is is the product
of child labor and slave labor that's actually illegal arrest me boys and so they lock him up they take him to jail and that becomes this viral sort of news stunt that brings even more attention to this now prosecutors end up dismissing the case because they're like we're not going to prosecute this but they decide to go in and create their own ethically made chocolate brand and they decide to call it tony's choco lonely because they're like the guy's the guy's name is toon and but in the that's his dutch name but the like americanized westernized version of of tone i guess is his name would be
tony so they goes tony's and instead of and he said it's going to be very lonely to build a chocolate company that's actually trying to be like ethically sourced so we called it tony's chocolate lonely okay great and that's how they felt in their fight against uh the coco you know industry and it becomes a hit pretty much right away they sell They sell 20 ,000 bars in two days because of the public like resonance with their story.
And it becomes the best selling chocolate brand in their market, which is the Netherlands.
They get like 20 % share in the Netherlands.
It passes up Mars and Nestle and other competitors there.
And then they start expanding and they keep expanding.
And then they start finding like -minded brands.
So they're, you know, I don't know if you know about Ben & Jerry's, but Ben & Jerry's is also one of these like very sort of like strong, ethical, moral.
Yeah, opinion driven.
They stick to what they want to do.
good people corporations i actually saw ben or jerry i forgot which one talk at an event i was at uh like 15 years ago and i remember being pretty blown away by the like how genuine it was for them and how the extent that they had gone right so for example i don't know if you know it's like they have this one flavor that's like their brownie flavor i forgot it like you know i'm so fucking fit now i can't even remember the name dude it's insane let's talk the fudge brownie something something fat people eat so that's so my past i just can't even you're like i i barely remember how that felt last
week by the way meanwhile i'm holding up this tony's chocolate only three bars are missing from this pack blame it on the kids my wife gets pissed off at me because whenever we bring like a treat to like a friend's house we bring dessert they cook dinner and like it's like already open it's like she's like what the hell you can't like give like a pack of ice cream when there's like one i'm like why not we're gonna open it anyway like half an hour why can't i open it now that's sort of what that's sort of what happened exactly she's like i'm a she's like i'm a she always compares me to like a bear
looking the cabinets for honey and i get my fingers stuck in the jar my brother -in -law aaron he's he's one of these people that like you know doesn't you know doesn't eat a ton in general like food's He's not a big foodie.
Yeah. But if you leave a snack, he's like a bear.
If you leave a treat in their house, it's gone by the morning and you're like, did you wake up?
And so he'll eat the whole bag, right, of anything.
And so my sister calls it like with Oreos, like we got a pack of Oreos, right?
And she's like, oh my God, Aaron's doing a line right now.
And doing a line to her meant you eat the entire row of Oreos like he did a whole line.
And I just thought that was so funny.
Aaron likes to party exactly we got to have him back on brother Aaron the OG's the real OG's now he had two guest cameo experiences like way back in the first 30 episodes it was hilarious anyways Chocolate Company so Tony's Chocolate Only what did they do or Ben and Jerry's to finish the Ben and Jerry's thing they opened up a factory I think somewhere like in upstate New York or something like this and they they it was after they met what's it called when you get out of jail jail and like you're in the program but you like don't want to go recidivism like they wanted to reduce recidivism like
people go back end up back in jail which is traditionally incredibly high it's really high and one of the big drivers of why do people who after a long sentence get out and go back it's not because they're like kind of morally corrupt at their core it's like they couldn't get a job and then they didn't have any money and they've got their social life and previous friends were losers or they left prison without knowing anyone but only had 50 dollars Exactly.
And so, one way to decrease recidivism is if people can get a job, but nobody wants to give them jobs.
So, they created a whole factory.
Their brownie factory is all brownies made by ex -cons, basically, the Ben & Jerry's flavor.
They met some guys who had a good recipe, and they built a factory around them, essentially.
So, they're do -gooders.
So, Tony Chocolonely, to break into the U .S., starts partnering with Ben & Jerry's, and the revenue has just grown and grown and grown.
and so like last year i think they did 200 million in revenue and they made this like a legit chocolate company that started with two journalists just basically trying to make a stand against the man how cool is that this is awesome this is so cool i uh do they run the company now no so they're out now um there's like a ceo they like you know it's just kind of run by like you know normal suits basically at this point and they get some flack because like um their supply chain is still not perfect and but they're very transparent about it so the crazy thing is like they'll report that they had like
you know 11 issues this year of like child labor discovered in their supply chain and people are like see you're not totally free and they're like what we're trying to like we're trying to be transparent and say what you know we we're way less than anybody else we're and we're also honest about this and we're reporting it so that we can keep improving this But they get some flack as like, you know, I guess like skeptics say that maybe they're just greenwashing at this point since the founders left. And even I think the founder has sort of alluded to like, it's not the same since we left. I don't
know the exact story.
It's like, I'm trying to read these like Dutch translations of articles and decided that like, I'd rather just eat the chocolate and chill.
So I'm not sure the exact story, but I think there's maybe a little controversy around that.
Yeah, I've known about this brand for a while.
and this and i didn't know the i only knew what jimmy had said which wasn't in this depth but that makes me like them way more the product's awesome i mean i love the brand they also and i eat the shit out of them i mean it's it messes me up but that's cool maybe you could be the influencer that blows them up even more sam parr i eat the shit out of them it's just like you most of my like guilty evenings start with a bar of tony's uh like and the problem with that jar of honey how much time we got uh the the issue is they would sell their candy like it used to come in like the extra king size
it was a huge bar they only sell in bulk by the way did i ever tell you about the time we were talking about recidivism this is not entirely related to business but i think you'll get a kick out of this did i tell you about the time do you know that i've been to like i think we've talked about this i've been to san quentin a few times in indiana state prison so you've mentioned that you did but i don't know the exact story what's what's the story the background of this so i've gone to uh i have a friend who this is the story it's gonna be a him but i've been to indiana state prison a couple times
or once i went to san quentin a few times one time i went to indiana state prison so we go because my friend has this charity called the last mile and the idea is like when you commit a crime particularly murder you're not always sentenced to life you're never really going to get out.
And it's better for that person if they get out and have a job.
It's better for society if they get out and get a job.
And it's better for the taxpayer if they get out and get a job because you don't want them to go back to prison because that's bad for everyone.
And so we are all incentivized.
It's totally bipartisan to get this person to be trained and to get a job.
And so this company, The Last Mile, started by my friend Chris.
They help you learn.
I think when I went, I think they were learning WordPress.
I don't know what what they learn now but this was a while ago they were learning wordpress or they were learning learning like some uh front -end development so you can get a job at like an ebay or like a huge vibe coding now yeah i don't know what they do now yeah they have like some like weird like uh like a hot or not apps just minting nfts yeah i don't know what these guys are doing but my friend chris started it and he uh was a prominent venture capitalist he helped uh he He was the first investor in Wish.
He was an early investor in Snap.
He did Boom. He did all these other cool startups.
And for some reason, one day he went and volunteered at San Quentin at a prison.
And he was like, I think this is my life's mission to help reduce recidivism.
Meaning when you get out of prison and you don't go back.
And so he created this thing called The Last Mile.
They now have hundreds of employees.
They've had thousands of people who have gone through their program.
program and I up until recently I he told me the stat a couple years ago so I don't want to like jinx someone I don't know the update but of the thousand or two thousand people who graduated not one had ever been back to prison and that's like a huge thing and uh and so it's really interesting that this tech person has uh like he quit so he doesn't invest anymore this is all he does and I talked to another guy Mike Novogratz uh he was on the pod uh two weeks ago and that's his thing now too is uh reducing recidivism so reducing the rate that you go back to prison but I know a bunch of people who have given
up their careers to go pursue this I'm on their website right now pretty crazy stats so it says since the 70s the prison population the U .S. has increased by 700 percent which is not what you would expect uh you know that's not just like oh that makes sense it should grow every year it's like no no the prison population should not necessarily grow at that rate.
It says that every person in prison has an annual cost to the American taxpayer of $70 ,000, which means we pay about $50 billion a year is spent on state and federal prisons.
Isn't that crazy? That's amazing, right?
The last miles, participants in the last mile who go through their, I guess it's like an education program as they get out, have a 75 % employment rate when they come out, which is great.
I wonder I wonder what the baseline is.
It's got to be half that or less.
Well, so basically what happens, and I talked to some of these guys when they were in there.
They were like, look, when I got out, I had been in for 10 or 15 years.
I was a thug. I didn't want to associate with my old people, and my family had either died or wasn't around, and they basically gave me a bus ticket and 50 bucks, and I was like, sir, where do I go?
I'm not sure where I go to right now.
What do I do? And so they're like, that's why I came back here is I just started going back to how I used to behave. Dave. By the way, why does he have a, um, this guy, Chris looks awesome.
Chris Redlitz. Why does he have a serious radio show?
What does that get broadcasted into, in the prisons in some way?
Or like, is that just an external thing?
Both. So he had, so Chris is interesting.
So we had Michael Harris on the pod.
Michael, uh, Herio is his nickname.
Herio is the founder of Death Row Records.
Chris is kind of, he, I joke, he's an OG.
He's an, he's an original gangster.
So he knows shows all of these guys so he's friends with dr dre snoop the founders of death row all these cool guys and they all have this like blend of like hip -hop but also like crime like interests and so he decided to have a show with serious where he would get some get some of these cool guys on the radio show and they would talk about what his issue is but also it was like wrapped up in like kind of cool stories because it's kind of like like hip -hop and like celebrity and so he had had a show for Sirius where he would talk about it.
Dude, this guy's living the dream.
Got rich, decided to do good in the world, has a great podcast. The Triple Threat.
I love it. He's cool.
And so he actually, so I became really close with him.
He invested in my company when I was a 25 -year -old or 26 -year -old in San Francisco.
Very coincidentally, we both moved to this small town in Westport, Connecticut together, and we hang out all the time.
And his wife, her name's Beverly.
She's a 95 -pound woman.
And I've been to San Quentin And we were walking on the yard with these guys doing like bench press and sit -ups and whatever.
And I walked with this little lady through the yard and the Red Sea parted.
And she just walked through it.
She's like, Tyrone, how are you?
And she would go, Miss Bev, nice to see you.
It was the craziest thing that I've ever seen.
It was like, I'm telling you, she like ran this prison yard. She was the only woman there.
And it was the craziest thing I've ever seen.
And they have a joke that says, if it glow, you may go.
go, when you walk in to San Quentin, they stamp your hand.
And so when you leave, you have to show them your stamp underneath a black light in order to get out.
And they would do jokes where she would wink at the guy when I'm walking in, and he didn't actually stamp me.
He just pretended. And I would go to scan my hand to leave, and my hand didn't glow.
And they're like, sir, you cannot leave. We have to get this figured out.
And I was like, I'm not staying here.
So they would pull tricks on you when you go and see this place.
It was wild. That's amazing.
Chris and Bev are two people, when I think of how to live life, it's them.
That's the way to go.
That's dope. Can I tell you a related story?
My buddy Trevor was writing a book.
He did this great, very smart move, which I never really heard anybody else do, but I thought it was a good idea.
He goes, hey, man, check your email.
I check my email, and there's a plane ticket.
It's a plane ticket to go see him.
He's like, I want to write this book, and I want it to be great.
I could sit here and brainstorm this on my own, but I really want to do something that I'm calling a book storm.
And he basically decided to fly out the five kind of smartest, most interesting people he knew to hang out with him for a day and just help him flesh out and brainstorm the book together.
And he's like, I will owe you one for life, but I just really respect you, trust you.
And I really want your help with this because I'm trying to make this great.
I go and in the room is basically my buddy Trevor, his brother.
And then there's the head of like the women's volleyball, the U .S. women's volleyball team, which is like way outperformed in the Olympics and won like a bunch of gold.
And there was one other person.
And then there was this guy, Larry.
I'm like, oh, I'm a professional brainstormer.
This is literally what I do.
I'm like just ready to rock and roll.
But I'm just blown away by this guy, Larry.
Every time this guy, Larry opens his mouth he says something that's super wise super smart on the nose just a few words but he's always on point and so after about an hour the brainstorming around the book i was like dude i gotta ask larry i missed the intro what's your story dude because you're incredible and larry tells the story where larry's like you know i um my name's larry blah blah and he goes i was incarcerated for the past 22 years and i think he had just gotten out i don't know how long it had been maybe a year or two something like that and he goes yeah from the age 18 he's now 40
he's like at age 18 i was arrested and i was i was in for you know whatever 22 plus years and i was like larry no offense but you just got out a couple years ago how are you so smart how do you know all this stuff because he would read all that he would have these amazing polls or whatever we're talking about he would reference this thing in this book and this quote he could just recite by memory so So Larry, I'm like, Larry, how do you know all this?
And he goes, I was incarcerated at age 18.
They lock you up and throw away the key, right?
Like you're basically like the lowest man on the totem pole for society.
They don't, nobody invests in you at that point.
You're a sunk cost. And so he's like, I was, you know, getting in trouble and it was a rough place and it was not a good time.
And he's like, I made a decision.
I'm no longer in prison, I'm in university.
And he's like, so every day I just studied.
I just decided to go to university for the past 20 years.
He's like, I decided to read all the books and learn and write and better myself.
And he's like, I would literally change what I saw.
I would walk in the prison yard and I wouldn't see the barbed wire.
He's like, I saw roses.
He's like, I literally just brainwashed myself that I am not in prison, I am in university.
And I carried myself like that.
And I acted like that.
He made the most of what was otherwise a very bad situation.
I just remember being so blown away way and inspired by this guy, Larry, when I heard that story.
Because I was like, if Larry can do that at a life sentence in prison, this sounds stupid, but then I can be born in a line at Starbucks for it or whatever.
You can change where you are.
You don't have to be in the situation that it looks like you're in.
You can literally just decide, no, no, I'm in university right now.
No, no, I'm in a spa right now.
No, I'm in the brainstorming session right now yeah i mean i am where i want to be about that that's so cool yeah it's really challenging because on one hand for some reason you start you feel like sad for someone like because you meet someone like a lot of the guys i met they i think they kind of had a tone for their sins a little bit where like they've changed but you're like oh i feel so bad for you like that sucks you deserve this and then you like learn about what they did and you're like ah actually no uh like consequences exist for a reason like that sounds fair to me uh and it It creates like
a, you get, whenever I've done these things with these guys, I get so many mixed emotions.
It's a very challenging thing.
It's a very hard thing to be part of too.
But it is a no brainer, right?
You want someone to like, not go back.
So you guys know this, but I have a company called Hampton.
Joinhampton .com. It's a vetted community for founders and CEOs.
Well, we have this member named Levon and Levon saw a bunch of members talking about the same problem within Hampton, which is that they spent hours manually moving data into a PDF.
It's tedious. tedious, it's annoying, and it's a waste of time.
And so, Levon, like any great entrepreneur, he built a solution, and that solution is called Moku.
Moku uses AI to automatically transfer data from any document into a PDF.
And so, if you need to turn a supplier invoice into a customer quote or move info from an application into a contract, you just put a file into Moku, and it autofills the output PDF in seconds.
And a little backstory for all the tech nerds out there, Levon built the entire web app without using a line of code.
He used something called BubbleIO.
They've added AI tools that can generate an entire app from one prompt.
It's pretty amazing.
And it means you can build tools like Molku very fast without knowing how to code.
And so if you're tired of copying and pasting between documents or paying people to do that for you, check out Molku .ai.
M -O -L -K -U .ai. All right, back to the pod.
Did I tell you my embarrassing prison story?
No, but that sounds so awesome.
It's very embarrassing.
This could go so many ways.
So I go, I go with this.
Were you making dad jokes at your first day in?
So I moved to Silicon Valley and I'm working with this guy, Michael Birch. And Michael Birch is this wonderful guy.
Michael's built a successful career in Silicon Valley.
He's basically like a billionaire.
So one day he messages me like, pack it, like pack a bag with enough clothes for a day.
I got two days and meet me like at like whatever, like meet me at like 8 a .m. at this spot.
You're not going to work today.
I'm like, all right, I don't know what's going to happen.
So I go, and we start driving.
You had no idea where you were going?
I think he tells me on the drive that we're going to, he's a part of this group called the Inside Circle.
And Inside Circle was where they take guys from the outside to go meet guys on the inside.
And it was at the prison, Folsom, was it called Folsom Prison?
Yeah, Folsom. And so we go drive there.
It's a maximum security prison.
And I'm basically just a huge wuss, right?
So, I don't know what I'm getting into.
I didn't actually sign up for this.
Michael's just kind of like, trust me, you'll like this.
This is good. You should do this.
I still don't really understand what we're doing.
I think it's like a, you know, like Dare where they, like, scare you.
They, like, take you in.
They scare straight.
Yeah, I thought it was scare straight.
I thought we were just going to observe from, like, behind this, like, really thick glass.
I'm like, oh, cool.
We're going to, like, watch. And I'm going to be like, wow, I learned so much today from observing.
Tapping on the glass.
and then they open the door and they're like all right guys come on in I'm like what and so we go in and they're like all right uh you know pick a buddy pick a pick a partner and so I'm like uh and I like pick this guy and and the program starts it basically it's like a men's group so you sit in a circle you talk about your feelings oh and by the way when I walk in immediately my eyes are drawn to one person because it was so obvious to me like this was the hardest guy guy in the prison somehow this guy had sunglasses and i don't know why he was allowed to have sunglasses he had a walking he had
a cane which i thought like you're not allowed to have like a like something that could be like a weapon uh he's but he's got a cane and he's got sunglasses but he's not blind by the way what he has the sunglasses like up on his head sometimes black guy black guy and he had like an entourage like he had like two guys with him who were really big and like but they deferred to him and he was kind of older and i was just like i don't know know who this guy is, but I've seen enough to know that this guy is somebody here.
Um, and maybe somebody on the outside.
I don't know, but he's somebody in here anyway.
So he's in my group and his two like entourage guys.
So we get in the circle and I'm like, okay, I don't know what I'm supposed to do.
Am I giving advice?
Is this a mentorship test?
What is this? And it's like, no, no, you're here to talk about, you know, it's a, this is a safe space.
Unpack your feelings.
I'm like, oh God. And so first guy starts and he starts talking about how he's feeling pissed off he's feeling pissed off because like I mean crazy story but like he's locked up in here and his sister outside is having she's being abused by her boyfriend he just wants to kill this guy but he's on the inside he can't get to this guy he feels powerless and he's sharing this heavy emotional real life problem yeah like a grade a real life problem and I'm I of course because I'm horrible i stopped listening i'm just like panicked thinking of what am i gonna say you know when you're like supposed to
be listening but you just actually just planning what you're supposed to say i start doing that because i'm everybody gonna like retell a fake movie so you sound hard like yeah so i'm like my my startup doesn't have product where i fit this is really grinding my gear what the hell am i gonna say i don't have real world problems right like my life's pretty good and the cert we're going around the circle and it's just one one crazy like real problem after another and then um and then it's getting to me and i'm just like what am i gonna say and so i'm like all right i guess i go deep in the bag i'm
like all right i do have you know there is something it's like pretty heavy i don't really talk about this normally but like i guess thank god i have this because this is the time and place to unpack this story and so i start unpacking this story and in my mind i'm and also i'm like i'm talking kind of slower and dramatically, because I'm like, let me really ham this up a little bit.
Like, let me not be me and laugh during this.
Let me, you know, try to be serious here.
And I think I'm doing a great job.
And the guy with the glasses just midway through is like, man, I don't believe none of that shit.
I'm like, no. And I immediately, I'm like, no, it's true.
He goes, I know it's true.
And I'm like, so what?
It's just to clarify, you said are we cool what's going on and he was like and he was like man that ain't your truth though so he's like it's true but that ain't your truth and i'm like what is this puzzle what is this riddle i don't know what this means and then um this creates this like really intense moment where i had to stand up and he's like they're like all right it's time to do the work i'm like what and so he's like right he's like what's your truth and i'm like what i just feel uh and i'm like i'm like i'm like no but that is a real situation that has happened to me and they were like
no what's your truth and i was like all right the truth is i'm just trying to say what i think you guys want me to say because i just want you to like me and i put the guy i was like i just want you to not hate me and he looks at me just stares at me he stands up he gets in my face he goes that's the truth and then we sat down and then for the next hour i was like i don't know what the hell just happened but i think i'm in a prison gang and this is awesome i think i'm accepted this felt amazing that's called a breakthrough yeah i had a breakthrough so that's pretty awesome prison story that's
great did you uh how did it end did you guys like exchange information?
What do you do? Dude, have you ever taken ecstasy?
I haven't but I assumed that's what it felt like.
For the rest of the time I was just like the weight of the world was off my shoulders and I just enjoyed myself enough.
And I realized like, oh, I could just be my insecure neurotic self and that's fine here.
Okay, cool. I don't have to pretend.
Great. And then they were like, cool, he ain't pretending anymore.
We like this guy. Whatever you say now, we don't really care but we just know that you're not pandering to us.
What value do these guys get?
What a lesson learned.
What value do these guys get?
Well, I think, you know, they live a pretty hard life.
No, I think just in general, they live a pretty hard life.
And they go to this meeting every week.
So they have this kind of, like, two hours a week where they get to go and kind of, like, as they would say, like, take the mask off, put the armor down.
In fact, like, it would be a mix of, like, the Hispanic guys, the white guys, and the black guys in this session.
But then they would, like, openly say, like, yeah, but like his friend like shanked my friend and so it's on but here it's not on but as soon as we get out it's on again and I was like this is like a pretty bizarre dynamic but they all agreed like alright when we're here it's whatever but when we're out there it is what it is that's just the way that's just the way things are I remember being like that's insane but you know understandable in a way so they have this as a space where they can like deload emotionally mentally which is important and feel like a human being and be able to express themselves
I think it's a pretty pretty dehumanizing feeling right when you're again locked up throw away the key and you know anybody who comes in they just see you as your label right but like in that environment for those three hours that we were there you know nobody was there was no status nobody was better than anybody else or like yeah there was this but i was worse than everybody else i guess it's probably the more accurate way of saying it but like there was no they got to like be treated well and be helped and be just talked to one man to another man um at least again these are my this is like
my interpretation of it i'm sure that people who do this more have like a more sophisticated way way of saying it.
By the way, now that we're talking about this, I'm going to wrap up.
But Jack Smith, I forgot.
This is his big philanthropic cause as well.
So Jack Smith, if you ask him what he's doing on a regular basis for a long time, I would say, what are you doing?
He's like, oh, I'm pen pals with people who are locked up.
And I have a system where they can order any book and I'll get it for them.
Isn't he giving books?
Isn't it a book program?
Yeah. Where he created a website.
I forget how he did it.
But where they can order a book and and he'll buy them any single book that they want.
Dude, most generic name, Jack Smith.
You can't find anything when you Google for Jack Smith.
Yeah. Okay, well, maybe we do this.
So there's TheLastMile, which you can donate to.
So go to TheLastMile .org.
You can donate there.
There's Inside Circle Foundation, where you can donate there.
So maybe we do a little good.
So if there's anybody who's listened to this and is inspired either to start your own thing or to attend one of these or to donate, go do it, man.
Because seeing it firsthand does a lot of good and I think doesn't get the type of attention that it would ever want.
By the way, the Inside Circle guys, they also made like a movie, a documentary about the program.
And Chris Redlitz is the guy who's kind of my mentor and someone I look up to.
And you can find him on Twitter.
He's super low -key, but he's been the seed investor of like probably five to ten different unicorns.
Hugely successful. And now he has dedicated his life to this.
So just DM him if you want to do whatever.
He's pretty open -minded.
Do you think you're going to do something like this, by the way?
Yeah, I haven't found my cause for a long time.
Do you have a career arc in mind where you're like, cool, I achieve, I climb success mountain, and then I parachute over to save the world?
I told Sarah that at the age of 40, I'm going to stop the getting of money.
So I said, by 40, I will no longer pursue any money.
and we will have a cause and that's what we will dedicate ourselves to.
That's what I, that's.
Wow, you've also told me that you're gonna disappear off the internet.
I think this is badass and you should talk more about this.
I said at the age of 40, yeah, I want to get off the internet and I want to not pursue any money making things ever again.
I don't want it to like ruin my perspective and just be a shallow capitalist and only care about that and just delete the internet and just focus on like doing something good.
that's that's what that's the current that's the current plan how old are you now i turned 36 a month ago so uh i'm uh 36 four years away dude do you think that's a crazy plan of course it's a crazy plan but it's a pretty cool plan i think it sounds pretty cool i said i said by 40 are you i mean what's your level of seriousness about this is this like that's what's happening or like i'm just testing this out seeing how these words sound in my mouth no i i just think that i think I think if you only pursue making money, I think that you become a very shallow person.
I think that there's more to life.
I think that there's been so many times where I've seen something inspiring and beautiful.
And in my head, I think, oh, then we could do this and turn it into this and then optimize by doing this, as opposed to saying, this is beautiful.
This is wonderful. I want to experience.
Let's keep it small.
And so I want to force myself to appreciate that.
One of my heroes is this guy named Felix Dennis.
He wrote the book How to Get Rich. which Felix Dennis was a publisher in England where he founded a bunch of companies, a bunch of publishing companies.
Eventually it was worth $600 or $700 million.
And he wrote that he was diagnosed with cancer something like at the age of 60.
And then at the age of like 61, while he was like learning about his cancer or something, he got into poetry.
And he was like, I'm obsessed with writing poetry.
Why on earth did I not discover this sooner?
And he quit business partially because he was dying and because he fell in love with poetry.
And he wrote in his book luck that if I could do it all over again, I would have quit at the age of 40 because I had enough and I would have pursued poetry because that was my calling.
And I always found that to be amazing because I think that oftentimes when we're doing what we're doing every single day, we get caught into the make more, do more, optimize more when it's like, I want to be in the present and I want to enjoy the things that I want to enjoy regardless if they make money.
Because how many hobbies have you had where you're like, well, I would only do it if I could make, make like oh i want to like buy these toys and like maybe i could buy like 10 of them turn to a money -making thing now what you're doing is actually pretty cool you but you still have a capitalistic mindset to it you are playing the piano and you are live streaming it which i think is amazing but in my head i'm like i want to do that too it's like well i only want to do that because i want people to see me learning a hobby do you know what i mean and i like that's like tainting well i only live streamed
it once no i'm not criticizing you i'm criticizing i i was inspired to do it because I want glory do you know what I mean well I learned pretty quickly when I started playing the piano that nobody gives a shit if you can play the piano by the way it's not like a thing if somebody plays the piano well it's like oh cool you can play the piano well they don't want to listen to even one song nobody wants to listen to somebody play a five minute song on the piano that's a very like clear thing to me since learning to play piano but it doesn't matter because playing a five minute song is incredibly
fun in fact i was i sent ben a text message i'm gonna read you this text message because i think it's very relevant to what we're talking about so pomp did a a spack recently did you see this yeah i i saw it but i don't entirely know what that means but yeah so our friend uh pomp anthony they spacked a company and the company's goal was to do the kind of michael saylor playbook which is it's a bitcoin acquisition and finance company and so what they're doing is they they raise i think 750 million dollars they spacked it um it's now public you know it's going to be a public company and they basically
bought 750 million dollars worth of bitcoin then they're going to raise debt and buy more bitcoin they're going to because companies can companies or pension funds can own pomp stock but they can't own bitcoin so this is how they get exposure to it is that right uh that's one one aspect to it there's others which is like it's levered so like you know you can for every dollar you put in let's say you buy bitcoin directly you could buy one dollar of bitcoin but like their thing might they're going to borrow and buy more than a dollar of bitcoin For every dollar of equity, you know, for example.
They also want to eventually turn it into like a full financial services thing.
So, essentially like a Bitcoin -backed bank.
I think that's a part of the vision.
Anyways, I don't know exactly what they're doing.
There's, you know, they're only allowed to say certain things.
But point is, it's like Pomp, this guy who's very much like us.
I think he's the same age.
Similarly. I hang out with Anthony all the time.
Creator on the internet.
Good dude. And he's, you know, he's not like some uber, uber, uber genius.
That's like, you know, but he's like relatable.
That's what I'm saying.
So he's like, he's like one of us.
And it's clear that this didn't just happen.
He's been working on this for some period of time, maybe six months, maybe a year, maybe two years.
You don't know. So he, it's like, oh, wow.
Pomp raised $750 million, has this public company now.
I think he owns 8 % of it.
I saw from the filing.
So like, you know, theoretically Pomp has like $80 million of value from this, right?
Some creators make courses.
Pomp's going to make like, you know, probably hundreds of millions of dollars from this thing if it goes well.
okay and uh that's clearly what he put a lot of energy and focus on and did a great job fundraising for and i was texting ben i was like wow wow that's incredible i was like meanwhile i've logged 120 hours on the piano in the last six months and i go honestly no regrets though fucking love the piano dude so listen you tweeted out you said i used to think jealousy was a bad thing like a sin and i try to avoid avoid it but jealousy is a wedding crasher it shows up uninvited and recently i started using jealousy to my advantage advantage jealousy is an incredible signal it tells me at a very primal
no logic level what my subconscious wants it's a heat signal for taste i don't obey the signal but i do observe it and it helps me now and so this sounds very strange but when i saw what pop was doing i was like that's so badass congrats to him but then very weirdly when i saw you streaming you played the piano for some reason i thought that was oddly one of the cooler things you've done in the last year or two and i felt stronger longer.
And I'm like, well, why do I feel that?
Why do I think that that is cooler?
I don't know why exactly.
But it relates to that tweet where I'm like, what's the signal there that that's sending?
So anyway, I thought that was really cool.
I thought that was significantly cooler.
And I said this as well, when you were contemplating making a play or starting a business or something like that.
It's like, I don't know, for some reason, the play is so much cooler.
So I think I would pursue those like artistic things over the money thing.
And this sounds like a very trite, you know, like, not everyone has the privilege to be able to do that.
but i do think that like it's better for your soul that way yeah exactly i mean you could already you know hear the comments oh it must be nice for you you don't have to work another version of it is tech bros discover hobbies there's more to life than money but also by the way both true yeah both both very valid points of view i don't think it's the important point of view but i do think they're valid points of view i think the important point of view is like try to figure out what you actually want to do and then pursue it like in a relentless sort of unashamed way.
And I think it's very cool when you said that thing, I think you told me like in five, seven years, I plan to delete my social media disappear from the internet.
And now you're talking about like, you know, and you know, stop the stop pursuing the getting of money.
Yeah, I really hope you stick to that.
I don't know if you will, because I think it's a very hard thing to do.
It's like, hey, can you turn down like, It's like being like, I no longer eat sugar, right?
It's like those people who are like, I'm going to stop.
I'm going to diet, right?
It's hard to stick to a diet.
But if you actually did that, you would shoot up in the rankings of most badass people I know.
You know what I mean?
You're already top 10, but you would shoot up.
I've got four years to go.
I better get all of it while I can.
But I do think that that— Give me a percentage.
How certain are you you're going to do that at the age of 40?
I just need to know.
I'm going to hold you to this.
60 to 70 i mean like i feel this a lot of it has to do with family too like i feel uh like when my little kids start like talking and having personalities i think i would fall in love with them even more and i just want to like be a good example that there's more to life than just the getting of money yeah yeah i'm totally washed when kids are so cute i'm just washed up up now i can't do it i can't do anything dude i'm just yeah like the all the more personality she shows the more where i'm like oh nothing really matters except our health and being around each other right right i don't know is that does
that stay linear like or does it like uh like does it keep getting hired the more they talk to you yeah it is but i i think at least for me like there's a uh there is a cap it's not one of these unbounded things it's not like i want to spend every waking moment with you i'm like you got like you're too annoying i'm too tired this is too much but it does i do i do have like a it became my favorite thing for like three hours a day like for three hours a day my kids are my favorite thing in the world that's three hours a day that my favorite thing used to be working it used to be you know reading
there's other things that were in that spot of like that three hours a day of like voluntary time i could i could direct towards anything and now my kids are that right like we're just like jumping in the pool with them and doing and stuff or playing a game or whatever that's like it is super super fun but it is capped at like a three to four hours a day beyond that I'm like like how dare my wife make me raise my own children this is too much I need to be helped and saved who's who's here to save me this is the softest episode we've ever had all right we should get off before we start crying all
right that's it that's a pod I feel like I can rule the world I know I could be what I want to i put my all in it like no days off on the road let's travel never looking back all right my friends i have a new podcast for you guys to check out it's called content is profit and it's hosted by louise and fonzie cameo after years of building content teams and frameworks for companies like red bull and orange theory fitness louise and fonzie are on a mission to bridge the gap between content and revenue in each episode you're going to hear from top entrepreneurs and creators, and you're going to hear them share their secrets and strategies to turn their content
into profit. So you can check out Content Is Profit wherever you get your podcasts.
