Hello and welcome to Women in Retail Talks, the podcast where C-suite executive women in the retail space share their stories of professional growth leadership development, personal journeys and more.
I'm Marie Albajez, Managing Editor of Women in Retail, a membership-based community of executive women at leading retailers and brands.
Today, I'm thrilled to be joined by Amy Smith, the Chief Brand and Impact Officer of Tom's.
Amy oversees all aspects of the company's corporate strategy and impact, as well as the company's environmental sustainability efforts.
And she's also a women in retail member.
So Amy, thank you so much for joining me.
Thanks for having me.
I'm so thrilled to be here.
I am too.
I know we saw you speak a couple of years ago now in San Francisco event and just wanted to have you back on ever since.
So I'm excited to hear a little bit more about your career journey.
I know that you've been at Tom's for eight years and correct me if I'm wrong, but you've been in charge of impact pretty much that whole time.
So how did your kind of career journey help you get to where you are today?
Yeah, that's right.
Although my role has evolved at Tom's over those eight years, I did come as the chief giving officer and added things to my role as I went along over the course of my eight years there.
I really have an eclectic background that I think kind of brought me to this opportunity at Tom's.
I started my career at Apple very young in career and went there when things were pretty tumultuous in the technology industry.
You think Apple has always been healthy, but that's not true.
And I had, I'd say now, the great fortune of being there when things were challenging, because I think you learn so much during challenging times inside a company.
So I was really able to kind of cut my professional teeth there.
I went on and worked for a startup for quite some time.
And then I worked for a nonprofit.
And so the culmination of this like innovative entrepreneurial spirit that understood the language of nonprofit and how to navigate that.
It was very much on the business end of the nonprofit.
Really brought me to this opportunity where profit and purpose can kind of come together.
So I'm still very business minded, but It's grounded in the mission of Tom's, right?
So we're in business to improve lives.
We sell shoes so that something good can happen in the world.
And when people choose to shop at Tom's, they know that their purchase is doing good.
And that's what I'm so excited about in my role at Tom's, because you can really bring all those things together.
Let someone have a beautiful pair of shoes while they're doing something great in the world is pretty special.
And there's, as you know, so many companies doing this now.
But to be able to bring together all those skills and really have them, kind of magically, work in this role has been wonderful.
Yeah, I'm curious how you define impact.
I feel like the roles of ESG and impact and kind of cultural social responsibility are have been more and more prominent.
We've seen a growing trend for this kind of work and these kinds of roles.
How do you define that?
And how have you kind of seen the evolution of that role change?
Yeah, such a great question.
We think about impact every single day at Tom's through the entire business, regardless of what department you work in.
So if you work in finance, you're doing what you do in order for everyone else to do what they do, in order for the consumer to be able to purchase a product from Tom's and do good with that purchase.
So everyone feels kind of, part of the mission all day, every day.
And that in and of itself, from an employee perspective, is impact, right?
They're part of something that is so special and so important and they feel that as part of their role every single day.
So there's that bucket of sort of internal impact, being part of something that's bigger than yourself, really contributing to not only the business but to the greater good.
Then, of course, there is the impact that we create with our impact partners.
So they are the experts.
We are the catalyst for them to be able to go do what they do so well.
And we focus our giving more specifically.
So we give grants to organizations that are focused on helping people access mental health resources.
And we can talk about that more in a minute.
But We play a catalyst role for them to do what they're what they're excellent at.
We are not excellent at that.
And so we really use a trust based philanthropy model which allows people to in those organizations to come to us and say this is what we need to grow our impact in the communities that we support.
And we say, great, you know what you need better than we know what you need.
And we're able to do that because we're not a publicly held company, right?
We can take a higher risk.
Some companies don't feel comfortable that they can do that.
But I will say that creating that impact for them and the thing that they need most when they need it, it's really powerful and creates more impact than if we were to come and say hey, we want to do this in the world in this kind of a way with these employees in this community.
And them having to say OK, let us see if we can kind of shoehorn what we do into what you want to talk about.
And so we're really careful with that.
So there's that impact.
And then, of course, there's the metrics, and how do you measure it and how do you tell the world about it?
And we produce an annual impact report where we talk about the good, the bad and what didn't work out, because this is a journey like we don't have it all figured out.
And sometimes it works and sometimes we hit and sometimes we miss.
And we're very transparent about that with our consumers.
So we could talk about that all day, but that's kind of three sort of buckets in the way I think about it.
Yeah, I really like how Tom's is very transparent about like look, we missed the mark on this or we're not quite there yet, but here's all the steps that we're taking to get there.
And I wonder how that has spoken to your consumer?
I mean, we've seen the way that especially the younger generations are choosing to shop at companies with these purpose-driven values and that sort of thing.
So how have you kind of seen that evolve?
Who is that customer that is choosing to shop with a company based on all of the good that they're doing?
Yeah, you're right.
With the younger generation, it's kind of becoming table stakes.
All of the consumer insights that we see now.
They have an expectation that a company is doing something more, that they have a purpose, that they're giving back in community.
And corporate America is actually pretty trusted in some cases even more than government to be doing some of these things.
So that's a really important role and responsibility that I think, collectively as corporate America, we need to be thinking about.
I also think it's very we all need to be stepping very carefully and doing what we can do well, what is authentic to our brands, because also that generation, they see right through it and they'll call you out for it right.
So if you are not authentic and if you are not talking about when you do well and when you're still learning, that consumer base is pretty quick to move on to somebody else who is doing those things.
And so That's why we feel one transparency is authentic to our brand, but we also feel as though we owe it to our consumer base to be transparent and honest with them about what we are learning.
Unfortunately, when words like purpose washing and some of these others start to come up, it worries me as someone who's so committed to having more and more companies function this way because yes, we all need to make money.
I want Tom's to make money, but it's in the idea that when we are profitable, we are able to give more.
And so that's the other reason why everyone inside the company, no matter where they sit, if they're trying to help Tom's, do better.
That allows us to give more.
And so again, all ladders up to our mission.
So that's a really important part of the process for companies.
And I say this quite often.
If you're out there trying to just do whatever unauthentically to your company, where you don't have any kind of credibility, it's probably not going to go that well.
And that's something that we're always thinking about.
Fascinating.
So walk me through.
You know, a few years ago, under your leadership, Tom's kind of pivoted away from the one-for-one model that they were so famous for of donating a pair of shoes every time someone buys a pair of Tom's.
And so walk me through what you transitioned to and why.
Yeah, it's a little bit to the point we were just talking about, right?
So Tom's was the original one for one model, we were the original purpose and profit company.
And I was with the company for about three years.
And we were about to impact 100 million lives through that giving.
And we are always asking ourselves are we having the greatest impact possible with the unprecedented commitment Tom's has to giving?
And so we started to talk to our customers.
We started to look at the data.
We've recognized that the majority of our consumer base is in the US and the majority of our giving is not.
And so there were lots of people that very much wanted, hey, there's things in my backyard.
Hey, I would love Tom's to help in these sorts of ways.
And so we really started to explore.
Took us almost a year really diving deep into, because obviously you don't take this kind of a move lightly, right.
We are the original one for one.
And so that idea of moving away from shoe giving that is so logical in someone's mind to something that we felt like we would have greater impact around would resonate for our consumer more and we had some credibility in.
Those were sort of my three criteria for doing anything was a really important thing to step our way through.
So we were clear that the consumer very much was focused on mental health.
All the data was pointing in that direction.
And we made this decision about a year and a half before COVID.
And COVID just solidified everything that we had learned and were thinking about.
And made it that much more front and center and I think still is very front and center we wanted, whatever we move to, to have real longevity, and mental health is something that everyone's been thinking about, continues to think about and really is now becoming part more part of a common cultural conversation.
Right, we're all gosh.
If you break your arm, you would go to the doctor.
If you're not feeling well or you need support, you should get that, right?
And so those are the types of things.
We know that almost half of the people who are trying to find a mental resource, they don't know where to start.
And so that's another way that we could, we found some white space.
We said, we have credibility here.
We can play in this space.
We also learned through our shoe giving.
When a child has a pair of new well-fitting, activity appropriate shoes, their confidence goes up.
And so we all the things we learned about that and applying that to mental health really made it so okay.
We have we have some credibility here.
It's really important to our consumer and it has staying power all felt like okay, we can dip our toe in this.
Now in the good, the bad and the ugly, I will tell you that the transition to helping the consumer understand what we're doing now because a shoe for shoe was so simple in their minds has been a bit bigger lift than I thought it would be, and a little more.
We still have quite a few customers out there that are like oh, don't you give a shoe somewhere in Africa, right?
And so...
That was not true, right?
So the consumer is always just like, hey, I know you're doing something good.
I trust you.
And so we kind of embrace that a little bit, right?
Like let's do best in class impact, but maybe the consumer doesn't have to know every single detail of it.
And it's there and it's in the impact reports and the impact section of the website.
But as my role evolved and I became the chief brand officer with the impact piece, my job now is to really figure out How do we show her beautiful product.
How do we help her understand that her purchase does good?
And how do we tell her where to go if she wants to learn more?
So it's a little like those things fitting together, clicking together are really, really important and not not.
It's not simple.
Right.
It's really important.
But it's it's it's not simple to figure out how to do that.
And that's something we've been working on over the last couple of years.
Yeah, I was going to ask at what point you feel like that messaging has come through and resonated to the point where people aren't just associating Tom's with that one for one model, but maybe just the broader.
Oh, this is a company that is doing good for someone somewhere specifically in the US, which is awesome.
Yeah.
At what point do you think it'll kind of like pivot or how is that?
How high is that on your priority list, I guess?
Yeah, no, great question.
I think it's an evolution.
So we moved away from a one-for-one tagline to wear good, right?
So like you wear good.
We like that it sort of sounds like we're good together, right?
We like that play on words and good can mean so many things.
Your purchase does good.
The product feels good.
I feel good and confident when I wear this.
So this new tagline has really helped that.
And we learned in a lot of our consumer research, the consumer really trusts Tom's.
And so maybe we don't have to explain every single nuance of trust-based philanthropy and every single nuance of all of our impact partners, but we do want to tell her inspiring, uplifting stories.
And so we're on that journey now.
It's been a couple of years.
We had COVID in the middle of all that, so it made it complicated, but that is something that we're, That wear good tagline and building meaning around that, not only for this beautiful product, but also for the fact that we support mental health.
She supports, the consumer supports mental health when they make a purchase from Tom's.
So this spring we did in spring 24, we did a campaign that really brought together people with incredible stories of mental health that happened to look beautiful in our products.
And put them together to tell stories, both about the product and about their mental health journey.
And that was something we're not only really proud of but I think really helped the consumer kind of click together.
Like, oh, I get it.
That's what they're trying to do.
And so we're always balancing, showing her beautiful product and making sure she remembers her purchase does good.
We say our consumer is someone who cares what she looks like when she walks out the door and she shops her values.
So that and that's that's you.
That's me.
That's a lot of the women at women in retail.
Right.
That's we're like, yeah, that's that's who we are.
That's what we care about.
And so it's.
It's not complicated, but getting those messages out there in a way in our massive thumb scrolling world, in a way she can consume it quickly, has definitely been our challenge and something we're continuing to chip away at.
Yeah.
Well, I was going to ask you personally, having been in this space for so long now and learning everything that you know about mental health and the partners that you work with, how has that been for you personally learning, going on that journey, learning about mental health?
You know what are kind of the non-negotiables for when it comes to mental health that you put for you and your family.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It has been such a beautiful gift for me to get to learn from these impact partners, for me to see incredible work that they do in communities everything from South Side of Chicago, where they're dealing with massive issues of gun violence and safety in their communities, to LGBTQ youth here in California, and our ability to make small contributions to their larger mission has been something that's been not only like so fun to be a part of and so special to be a part of, but like really drove it home for me uh, not only for myself, but for my family.
Like at Tom's we say ground up chain starts with us.
We have to be the ones doing it.
So I was like, Oh, I got, you know, I got to be doing this too.
I've got to be like, I can't just be advocating for it.
I need to walk the talk.
And so you know my for myself, taking the majority of a weekend and spending it with my family and exercise or just even moving my body, and how much I've learned about movement and what it does for your mental health, has been really, really special.
And then our family.
This is, this is something we do.
We have a, we have a mantra every morning, so it's like this giant list of mantras and like everything from.
You know, I'll show up in the way, in my best possible way that I can, today or not.
Everything's in my control.
They're just like little short sentences.
And so a different family member.
I have two kids.
And so my husband, I or one of the kids will choose one for the day, that we share it in the morning.
We kind of repeat it if we need it.
Someone might have a little groan about something that someone else chose.
But we really try to like start our day with something fresh to think about in terms of our mental health.
So those are just a few of the little things we do for me personally and then as bringing it into my family.
And then of course, when we have dinner together, asking, how are you doing?
Like, how are you really doing?
Right?
So making sure that those things are as good as we can make them, knowing that it's okay not to be okay sometimes.
I love that.
How does that play out when you're leading your teams?
You know, what does that look like as you're learning more about mental health?
How does that show up for you in the teams that you lead?
Yeah.
Again because we say ground-up change starts with us.
We really are focused on mental health for our employees.
So one of the things we implemented company-wide is a half-size Friday.
So we wrap at noon on Fridays so that the people inside the business have an opportunity to take care of the things they need to, to take care of themselves.
And some people might choose on a particular Friday.
Hey, you know I really want to spend some time on this presentation I've been excited about
So they might spend their afternoon not doing that.
Or gosh, I haven't taken care of that doctor's appointment.
So I really need to make sure I get that scheduled for a Friday afternoon.
So I'm not feeling stressed about it.
Or I just want to go do some shopping, like whatever makes them feel whole and gets them in front of their weekend.
And it has been so incredibly popular.
So many people have really loved having it be part of the Tom's culture and what's available to them in terms of benefits.
So that's one thing.
And then of course, me as a leader, almost every one-on-one starts with, how are you doing?
And it's like, no, really, really, how are you doing?
Really, what's going on for you?
And sometimes that'll be a work conversation.
Sometimes that'll be a personal conversation, but really creating space.
I will say that I feel like You have to build trust with your team before you can really have a conversation like that, where they feel that is safe to have a conversation like that.
So that's a huge priority for me is to build relationships.
Show my own vulnerability.
Talk about when I'm having a rough patch, whatever might be going on for me.
Talk about a project I'm struggling with.
Get their advice.
That really opens a space for people to build trust together and for them to really know that I support them and that my goal is for them to be successful.
My goal is for them to grow as leaders.
And that's made a huge, huge difference in not only my leadership skills but watching them lead others, seeing how important it is to build trust as a team.
Then you can get to these things where you're able to address mental health and you're able to address how to be most successful in role.
Yeah.
I mean, I think I was just about to ask you, but I think you already answered it of you know, how do you get to a place in your relationship with an employee where they do feel comfortable saying this is how I truly feel, either personally or professionally, about something.
How do you get them comfortable enough to go to you if they have an issue?
Yeah.
It's showing your own personal vulnerability and asking them for feedback all the time.
I'm constantly looking at how, how can I do better and showing them that I'm truly listening and making change and all of that kind of culminating in our collective ability to build trust with each other and talk about the things that because I think, at the end of the day, we all share a set of goals, which is to be happy, healthy and contribute to Tom's right.
So if you kind of create that common ground and build on that by my choices, by showing vulnerability, asking for feedback and creating safe space for them to share how they're doing,
That's so important.
And then, at the end of the day, reminding them, like you said, that my ultimate goal is to make sure that you're successful and happy.
Yeah.
Which you know, hearing that from a leader in itself is like wow I you know that in itself would make me want to open up.
Right.
And I think, if you're, I genuinely believe that I genuinely believe that's my job and And so I also.
You know, you can't just say the words.
You have to do the actions that go with them.
And that's what actually builds the trust.
The words are pretty easy.
The actions are.
And to have honest dialogue.
If I have feedback to give, I'll say, hey, this might be kind of a tough conversation.
Are you in the headspace to have it?
Right.
Or do you need a minute?
Or should we take a break?
Or like all those sorts of things. for them to know, hey, I'm still going to hold you accountable.
I'm still going to help you build your skills, but I care about how you're processing it on the way.
And sometimes that takes an extra minute, but I think it's truly worth it.
I have an incredible team of people working very, very hard for TOMS.
And I think that's because we built strong, healthy relationships together.
That's awesome.
So before I let you go I want to ask you about kind of the other side of your role.
In your business you oversee also the environmental sustainability efforts of the company.
So can you walk us through what the five commitments are that TOMS has embarked upon for 2025?
Yeah, that's a great question.
We were really committed to investing in our Earthwise line, which are products that have the planet in mind and the materials that we're using.
We're constantly looking to increase our B Corp score.
We're a B Corp certified organization using greener packaging up to 90 percent recycled materials, measuring our carbon footprint.
And then, of course, reporting our progress in an annual impact report every single year.
So let's touch on a couple of those.
We talk most about our mental health giving, but the structure is purpose, planet and people.
Right.
So we've talked about the purpose.
We've talked about the people a little bit.
And the planet piece is what you're referring to here.
And so we were very intentional and very careful to talk about the environmental sustainability piece in the context of doing our part for the environment.
As a footwear company, it can be tricky.
Any apparel footwear, anytime you're actually building a thing that someone's going to buy and you want them to keep it right.
So Patagonia is gold standard in the environmental space.
And so we are not trying to compete there.
We are trying to do our part in that space.
And so as part of that, as you've outlined, we've kind of made five commitments everything from thinking about what are the materials that we put into our products, to having an Earthwise line where we transparently show our community what that means to us, to measuring our carbon footprint.
So there are several things that we're doing within that.
And each year we report out our progress, how we're doing.
And it's so interesting.
You know you talk about the good, the bad and what you haven't quite gotten to yet.
And the carbon footprint has been something that's been really challenging for us to navigate.
It's complicated because we have multiple factories, we have multiple product types.
We have multiple materials.
So we haven't created that baseline yet, but we have done things like join canopy, which helps deforestation, and the leather working group, which sources leather responsibly.
And we're trying to use as much recycled cotton as we can use hemp and jute as much as we can.
So those are all things that contribute to doing our part for the environment and making sure that we're being responsible and being conscious of the choices we make as a business in this area.
So just trying to do our part for the place we all call home is the way we frame it.
And I think that's an important thing for every single company to do.
The latest thing we've added because recycling shoes is actually quite tricky, they have to be kind of disassembled because there's different parts is we've launched a partnership with ThredUp.
And I don't know if people know about ThredUp, but it's a great online resale basically for gently used products, whether it's vintage or a brand you love.
And so we also now have a partnership with ThredUp and put many of our products there and work with our consumers to do give back bags and all sorts of things in that partnership, which is a really nice addition to us thinking about how do we contribute to the planet.
Yeah, that was going to be another one of my questions is how has that partnership been?
Really great.
Like, way more than we thought because we don't promote it a ton on our website.
It is there and you can find it.
We announced it maybe a year and a half ago and people really have engaged with it.
Not only sending their toms to ThredUp buying toms from ThredUp but sending their bags so you can put Things that you want to give to ThredUp or to sell through ThredUp.
And then you get a credit at toms.com for something new.
And so that's been a really fun way for us to maybe introduce toms to a new consumer or help a consumer who maybe has a few too many pair of toms and they're ready to move them on to a second life in a really simple ThredUp does a beautiful job of making it a really simple way to do that.
And so we've loved that partnership and we've gotten some new consumers from it.
We've gotten lots of people to do gift cards and come back and buy something new from Tom's when they're moving things on to a second life.
So it's been really positive for us.
That's awesome.
I feel like I always have like a half full bag of back to send to ThredUp.
I've been a very loyal customer of theirs for several years now.
So I was thrilled to see that Tom's has that partnership now.
Okay.
So before I let you go, I have one more question for you, which is what is next for impact at Tom's?
Yeah.
You know, we are really committed to staying the course.
This is going to be the most uninteresting answer, because we're going to do more of what we're doing.
I think the biggest thing, one of my biggest goals, is to make sure the consumer understands that their purchase still does good.
Make sure the consumer understands why Tom's has chosen mental health and make sure we make it fun accessible uplifting warm inviting, and that they really can feel the impact of their decision to purchase a product from TOMS.
That's really my focus.
So I don't know that we're going to change much of what we're doing.
We're going to really stay the course.
But how we talk about it, how often we bring it to the consumer, in what ways we bring it to the consumer is really going to be our focus over the next year or so.
Yeah, I feel like there's so many cool ways that you guys can tell that story and are telling that story.
So I'm excited to see more of that and see what's next for you all.
And hopefully, you know, in a year or two, we'll have you back on and hear the latest impacts.
That sounds great.
Thank you so much for joining me.
I really enjoyed our conversation.
It's been a thrill.
Thanks so much for having me.
Thanks for listening.
For more information on this podcast, please go to womeninretail.com slash podcasts for show notes.
Women in Retail Talks is available on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, and Spotify.
Make sure to subscribe on our podcast channel page as well.
If you've enjoyed this episode, please take a few moments to rate and review our show.
Lastly, if you're a female retail leader interested in joining our community at Women in Retail Leadership Circle, visit womeninretailcom.
Slash apply.
Thanks and until next time, this has been Women in Retail Talks.
