Takeaway Chinese, where you can take some Chinese away and experience progress day by day.
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你好,欢迎收听随行汉语。 Welcome to Takeaway Chinese.
I'm Niu Honglin with Steve Hatherly in the studio.
Hello, Steve.
Hello, how are you doing this time?
I'm doing very well.
How are you doing?
How are you enjoying the year of... Whoa, snake now.
Is it still the still snake?
Yeah, we're not done with this one yet.
You know, I feel that during this time of year you start to look forward to the next year and then you get used to the numbers and you get used to like the Zodiac.
Okay, what is it next year?
And then you kind of forget that you're still actually in the current year and you haven't arrived there yet.
And at the beginning of the new year you kind of forget.
You enter the new year and you still use the old number, the old zodiac.
That goes on for a good few weeks.
That's the fun thing about the sense of time.
时间 is a notion.
It's a 概念.
It's something that we impose on ourselves as human beings.
Time is a construct.
That's true.
That's true.
But the idea or the idea of a year, of the significance of a certain period of time, and the exact point at a timeline that you make, you give it significance, you make it a milestone point.
That is a human society thing.
Yeah, but it does make sense.
I think about the first human beings a lot.
I don't know why.
For example, like...
You know, the first time somebody saw the moon, they must have freaked out.
Like, what is that thing?
Right.
And then the sun, the first time they saw the sun, same thing.
They'd freak out.
But then the next day they see it again and then it goes away and then it gets dark.
So there's these little moments throughout the course of now what we refer to as 24 hours that would allow people to schedule things like oh OK, I got to go forage for those berries before that yellow burning thing up there disappears, or I can't see the berries anymore.
So it gives you I'm trying not to say the word time.
It gives you kind of. slots throughout the day to accomplish certain things.
To regulate or to plan your stuff.
Yeah.
Plan how you sow, how you harvest, when you do these things, and maybe when you water.
And that is very important in Chinese history and culture.
We are traditionally a country that is big on agriculture.
And, at the very beginning, people would even have their calendar based on what's happening in nature, and that's the thing for all the civilizations though, so you use that schedule to make your own day, but then, if you lived with other animals, then you'd have to use that same type of schedule for them too, even though they didn't want anything to do with that.
You're imposing it on them definitely.
Yeah, when you think about it, it's a fun concept.
And here in China, we have the 12 zodiac system.
Speaking of animals.
Yes.
And these concepts have been in the Chinese culture and history and society for a really long time.
And what we do to time, to making plans, to imposing the concept of time on animals.
It's what humans do.
We like different meanings connotations, and we even have our own understanding about different traits and characters of different animals.
We believe some animals are nicer and more friendly and fun to be with.
That's because they are.
Definitely.
Sometimes we even admire them and trying to learn from them.
If you know what I mean.
Some animals are considered very much hardworking, and we want that trait on ourselves as well.
So we kind of learn from them.
We see the traits that those animals have and then we strive for those too.
Yes.
And since we're approaching the year of horse, the Ma Nian.
Ma is horse, by the way, and Nian is year.
So Ma Nian, the year of horse, is really close.
We are thinking about.
Maybe it's a good occasion to talk about the connotation, the kind of traits Chinese people believe horses have and some related expressions idioms, sayings when it comes to horses.
What I learned as we were chatting before we turned on the microphones today, and I never thought about this.
The animals in the Chinese zodiac.
Some are considered better than others by Chinese people.
And I had never considered that before.
I would have thought that they would have all been quite positive, because if you're the year of the snake or the year of the rat, I thought society would say Yeah, but still, here are a list of you know 30 great things about being born in the year of the rat or the snake or what have you.
But you were telling me that Chinese people kind of see the animals in the zodiac through a little bit of a maybe different lens.
Some are better a little bit than others, probably.
Well, yes and no.
Yes, Chinese people definitely would make sure that all the animals have their advantages, and you can definitely find some good traits or some positive elements when you were born in the year of snake, like I do, and in the year of rat anything.
But, at the same time, when we talk about different connotation and different traits and characters of different animals, The reason that we talked about where I told you that Chinese people like horses is that for snake, for example yes, there are good traits.
They are flexible, they're smart, but also they would take revenges.
Depends on you to decide whether or not it's a good thing, and Sometimes they can have some dark ideas.
Yeah, and it's interesting too that depending on the culture, for example in Western culture, We've even made that animal's name an insult for other people.
You're such a snake.
And that obviously shows the snake in Western culture isn't viewed that positively.
Well, I understand that.
And in Chinese, we also say 蛇蝎心肠, which is having the heart and the gut and instants and just internal organs of a snake or a scorpion.
Exactly.
Is that a compliment or an insult?
No, no, no.
It's an insult.
It's saying that you're so dark inside.
But that word is not necessarily linked to those who are born in the year of the snake.
Ah, right.
So the born in the year of one of the 12 Chinese zodiac and the kind of Chinese idioms, Chinese sayings that are directly related to that animal, those two things do not always go hand in hand.
Hmm.
That's a good insult, by the way.
You have the internal organs of a snake.
And a scorpion.
And a scorpion.
Yes.
But it's not about snakes.
Snake year is going.
And the year of the horse is coming.
And horse.
Wow.
I can't think about something that is really, really negative about horses.
Yeah.
Western culture, too.
It's just viewed as like a strong thing.
Hardworking, fast, kind of an amazing animal.
Yeah, and even handsome.
Yeah, kind.
Reliable, loyal, all of the good things about horses.
I got kicked by a horse once.
That was not a reliable horse.
No.
That hurt.
That's really dangerous.
That's a different topic, I guess, for a different day.
You should not stand.
Behind a horse.
Yeah.
Well, nobody told me that at that time.
Luckily, he just kind of grazed me.
He didn't really connect.
Good, good.
Otherwise, I wouldn't be here, maybe.
But horses have been in human society for a really, really long time.
Before you have cars, horses, the major transportation.
Yeah.
And also if you really take time back to ancient history, different countries start a war with each other.
Horses are very important and very reliable partners of the soldiers.
And there's a lot of Chinese folk tales about horses too, right?
Yes.
And horse is actually a family name in, I mean, it's the same word, same word here in China too.
Ma is a family name.
It is a family name, a last name.
And people even use the expression 千里马。 千里马。 千 means a thousand, 里 is a mile, so thousand mile horse 马 to talk about those who are really good talent.
It's a metaphor.
It's saying that the horse that can run 1000 miles, meaning that the horse is resilient, very talented, good at what he does or her what she does.
And that is a metaphor for the really good talent, because there is this Chinese story behind this expression.
It's saying that the horses all look the same to people, to ordinary people.
You cannot really tell the difference by merely looking at the horses.
But for some talent detectives they can tell, know which horse is a really, really good horse and they can identify the talented horses.
And it's a metaphor of someone who's good at finding out the good talent, even without the talent already, showing a lot of what they can do.
So if you call someone a 千里马, you're firstly implying that they're really good talent and you're also kind of making them feel better about not yet to be found.
So when, in what situation would you use 千里吗?
Well, mostly because it's an ancient notion related metaphor, using it in daily conversation is not that common.
But in relatively official setting.
If you are writing a passage to a talk about someone being already discovered or about to discovered as a really good talent, you can use that.
Or in articles or in a public speech, you can say that about someone.
I see.
And you can also say that as a compliment for those who can find the really good talent.
They have a good pair of eyes.
Can you call yourself a 千里马?
Let's say you try rollerblading.
And it's the first time, but you realize, oh, well, I'm actually pretty good at this.
The thing is, when you use 千里马 to address someone, you're again also talking about the fact that they're yet to be discovered.
The discovering factor is important in using this word.
It's either that someone discovered them already or Or that you're saying you're really good.
It's just your time hasn't come yet.
Or the one who is smart enough to find you is not there yet.
Or your opportunity is not there yet.
So 我是千里马 is not a commonly used sentence.
You can say that to other people and saying that I am here, you should discover me, but not in the sense that I find something that I'm really good at.
Yeah.
Not in that way.
Understood.
And of course, like we mentioned, 马, the character is used in a lot of different expressions.
For example, we have another Chinese idiom, 汉马功劳, that's related another type of 马, but I'll explain a bit later.
So 汉马功劳, 汉马功劳.
Usually we would say 立下汗马功劳。 立 is to accomplish something.
So 立下汗马功劳。 立下汗马功劳。 It means having achievements in a major... project or a major war in ancient times because the horse after running a long time they are sweating so depending on how you understand it but the second part of the idiom is the achievement or the contribution you did so people use this expression at work yes it's trying to compliment whoever has done something major in a project, in a process.
So you have a major accomplishment in this.
Does it have to be a major accomplishment or is it just a way to express a job well done?
When we finish this episode of Takeaway Chinese today, think it will be proper?
Well, it will be.
It's not wrong.
That's my question.
Yes right, because i'm.
What i'm asking is like we might say like oh, great job today, something like that, but that might be not be strong enough for this expression.
It would have to be like This was ranked the top rated podcast in the world, or something.
Yeah, something like that.
It's usually when we're using four character Chinese idioms.
It's something a bit more extravagant than everyday encounters.
So 汉马功劳 this is a good word during this period of time, because it's the end of the year you would give words to certain employees and you talk about what are some major things, things that we've done this year.
I think it probably is, I'm guessing.
I'm thinking that it is a good expression to use to your coworkers at the end of the year.
Yes.
Because you're implying like, all the things you've done this year really great job with those things.
Yes.
And it especially carries the idea that for the success your proportion of contribution is major, can definitely not be neglect.
汗马功劳 功劳 汗马功劳 新年快乐 汗马功劳 I don't think that'll work because you have to specify 你立下了汗马功劳 Oh, I have to like to whom I'm speaking.
Otherwise, I'm just like putting it out there into the universe.
Yes.
And a funny expression we have about horses is that in English you say butter up, right?
To butter someone up, like give them compliments.
But does that expression carry any kind of negative implies?
It can, because if you're buttering someone up, then you have some sort of agenda, right?
Yes.
You're doing it for a reason as opposed to simply out of the kindness of your heart.
And you don't necessarily have to be 100% sincere.
True.
Yeah, that's the thing.
In Chinese, we say 拍马屁.
拍马屁.
Yes, 拍马屁 means to patting on the horse's butt.
So pi is pet, ma is a horse, and pi is butt.
And that is because in ancient time I think it's in the Yuan Dynasty when people want to give each other compliments, sometimes they would pet on the butt of each other's horse and say oh, that's such a good horse.
You have a really good horse.
It's like a compliment, flattering each other.
Yeah, and that would be a big compliment because people would take a lot of pride in the horse that they had.
So it has something to do with the fact that people value their horses, but it's also a fun expression in modern day, and people do not like those who butter their leader or their bosses up.
Yeah, so this is about like a work context then.
So if I feel like you are giving me compliments because you want something, can I say that?
Yes.
Don't just come over here and petting on my horse's butt.
I don't buy this.
Oh, in Chinese.
I don't eat this.
You know, I'm not buying it.
I'm not buying it.
That's a fun one.
It is a fun one.
Another fun one is 露马脚.
露马脚.
露 is to reveal.
脚 is feet.
So showing one's true colors or accidentally showing the fact and revealing the real situation is 露马脚.
I don't know where does that come from, but apparently maybe when a horse is running very fast you cannot see their feet.
I don't know.
Can you explain that one again?
So when do you use this?
You use this to say, well, the literal meaning is revealing the horse's feet.
But the metaphor is to showing one's true color, or revealing a fact accidentally reveals something that you're hiding.
Accidentally.
Yes.
Kind of like.
Spill the tea or spill the beans?
Like when you accidentally reveal a secret?
Yes, it's a little like that.
And it's also possible that you only revealed a clue of what's happening.
You didn't even say it out loud, but because of the clues, the little details people figure out.
You gave it away somehow.
Yeah.
That's a specific one, isn't it?
Yes.
And I think it's a funny one as well.
We talked about this on Takeaway Chinese is that we have many expressions and idioms related to people body parts, but apparently horse body parts is also important.
Yeah, right.
Well, we have that expression in English straight from the horse's mouth.
Have you ever heard that before?
That means from the source.
Ah, so when you say I heard it straight from the horse's mouth, it means I didn't hear the information secondhand
I heard it directly from the source.
Why horse?
I don't know where this expression comes from.
These expressions are fun.
Yeah.
Why?
Why would you say that?
I don't know.
Horses don't even speak.
And this one, this Chinese expression, 人靠衣裳,马靠鞍, this is a long one, 人 is people or human being, 靠 is depend on, 衣裳 or 衣装 is your outfit, 马 is the horse, 靠 is depend on, and 鞍 is the saddle.
So put it all together.
What do you get?
It means that clothes make the man as saddle makes the horse.
So your outfit also is important to you.
Your outfit says a lot about you.
An outfit says a lot about a person.
Just like a horse's saddle says a lot about the horse.
Yes, about the horse status, whether or not they're revered, they're billed as some horse important.
Do people believe that in modern Chinese society that your outfit says a lot about you?
Yeah, a little.
Some people believe it.
And I do also believe that having a planned outfit shows that you value the occasion of meeting.
You respect the other people.
I mean, if it's a very important business meeting, yeah.
Yeah, I believe it to a degree.
But it depends on the context of the situation.
Yes.
You know, if you look at Steve Jobs, for example, he just wore a black turtle.
He wore the same thing every single day.
Right.
And yeah, and he had a theory behind that.
I forget exactly what it was, but it was, you know.
You don't need to worry or focus on the attire or the clothing.
You're taking your attention away from more important things.
But that expression definitely shows that horses used to occupy a very important position in one's life, in the human society.
Well, I mean, if you think about modern times, a lot of people will use their car to show Connotation.
It's not just close.
It's kind of exactly the same thing.
It's just a four-wheeled version as opposed to a four-legged version.
Yes, that's true.
But also, I was thinking when humans compare themselves to a certain type of animal, it shows that they do not have any negative qualities impression over the animal.
They are willing to do that and they don't find it a problem.
Yeah.
Just like in this expression, 好马不吃回头草。 好马不吃回头草。 回头草。 草。 草。 Okay, so 好 is good.
马 is the horse.
不 means no.
吃, eat.
Huí tóu means to turn back, turn your head.
So huí means to turn and toe his head.
Cǎo is grass.
Hǎo mǎ bù chī huí tóu cǎo.
A good horse doesn't turn back to eat grass.
What do you think it means?
Good horse doesn't turn back to eat grass.
Meaning it only looks forward to eat grass.
Yes.
So I'm thinking out loud here.
So it means that if you turn down something, you don't go back and ask for the same opportunity.
It's even used in romantic settings.
If you break up with someone, don't come back.
Don't come back.
Don't call me again.
And the same problem would emerge again and again.
If it's a job opportunity, same.
Yeah, but that wouldn't happen that often in job opportunities, would it?
Sometimes, if you quit the job and after searching in the market and you are, you know, trying to decide whether or not you go back your friend can say you're a really good horse.
There will be better grass waiting for you somewhere.
You should not turn back.
Oh, I misunderstood that.
So this is used positively.
Yes.
Oh, I thought it was from the perspective of the employer.
For example, you're going to don't come back here begging for your job again.
Or the boyfriend or girlfriend, like, don't call me again.
Don't come back here looking.
For this heart.
Well, you can do that ironically as well, but positively, negatively, both fine.
I see.
So we use this.
Yeah.
So if someone is lamenting their breakup and they're thinking, oh, did I make a mistake?
Yes.
Yes.
That situation.
People can use that.
Should I crawl on my hands and knees and beg them to take me back?
And your friend will say... Yes, don't do it.
Don't turn back.
Keep moving forward.
Yes.
And again, you're using horse as a metaphor for a human.
So we have really positive.
Yeah, I guess the English equivalent would be like, just don't look back.
Never look back.
Never look back.
Yeah.
Finally, at the end of our conversation, I find out something negative about horse.
But to be honest, it's not about horse.
It's about one negative or relatively bad example in a good herd.
That expression is 害群之马。 害群之马。 Yes, so 群 is a herd, a group of horses.
And 害 is to harm.
To do harm to is the ancient time apostrophe s like the modern chinese and is horse.
So this one is talking about a black sheep.
Oh yeah okay, but it's just horses.
Yes, it's the horse version.
So if you call someone a, you're saying the bad one yeah, the person who doesn't fit in, the unpopular one, the one who is Posing a negative impact on others, on the entire group, the community or the family.
Yes Yes, the family the, the black sheep in the family.
Okay, So this is the way we most commonly, I think, use this in English is to refer to ourselves as And I guess it's used a little ironically, not so seriously.
For example, me, my sisters still have lived their whole adult lives in Canada.
Their families are in Canada.
My parents are in Canada.
They are Canadian.
That's where they are.
I moved to Asia and spent almost all my life here.
I say about myself, I'm kind of the black sheep in the family.
I don't necessarily mean that.
It just means I'm a little bit different.
So in Chinese, do you use it that way?
No, no, no, no, no, no.
It's serious.
It's really talking about doing harm.
And you're not only different, you're not only unpopular, you're literally.
That is doing harm to the entire group.
Oh.
Serious.
That's good to know.
Yes.
But even in that expression, even that expression is negative.
It's used in relatively serious occasions.
Still, it's not about horse, the species.
It's about just, you know, different individuals.
So I guess horse is really positive in Chinese culture.
And it shows you all the expressions related to the horse, just how important the horse was in Chinese history when all these words were being made.
Yes.
So for those of you who are born in the year of horse, really good luck to you and congratulations.
And it's going to be your year next year.
So tell us, what is your big plan in your 本命年?
本命年 is referring to the year that your zodiac animal comes again. and your year comes again.
Any major plans, anything you want to reflect about your past life and anything you want to talk about or learn about about horses, about Chinese please let us know in the comment area.
And that brings us to the end of today's show.
感谢收听,我们下次再见!
Thanks very much, see you next time!
