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Hey, I'm Kwame Christian and you are about to step into the world of Negotiate Anything.
The number one negotiation podcast in the world where we teach you how to make difficult conversations easier while getting more of what you want in the process.
Each episode is packed with practical tips and strategies from the experts.
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Whether you're closing a deal, managing a team, or navigating personal relationships, Negotiate Anything provides you with the tools you need to succeed.
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Hey everyone, it's Kwame Christian, host of Negotiate Anything, asking you to please do not skip forward because this is not a commercial.
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Greetings. Greetings from Phoenix, Arizona.
Yes, bring in some sunshine.
Listeners, we are dealing with a celebrity in the negotiation space because Karen did this fantastic study that I quote in almost all of my trainings.
And I remember after we had our conversation, our pre -interview chat game planning, it hit me because I quoted you again.
I was like, wait, it's the same.
Karen, that's crazy.
So before we get into it, can you tell the audience about that study?
Yeah, this is a study that I did with my graduate students and I worked with another negotiation expert, Marty Latz.
Who had created some planning software and he and I both have been amazed at how little preparation many people often do when they start a negotiation.
So he and I work together on taking his negotiation software and using it in my graduate level courses.
And it gives you an opportunity for the participants to be able to prepare ahead of time and then to do an analysis of their negotiation after the negotiation.
And we did a control group of people who didn't prepare at all.
And we have some of those in graduate school, believe it or not.
And then we did another control group where only one party participated in preparation.
And then we did another control group where both parties did the same preparation.
And we found that there was a significant difference in the outcome because we could actually quantify this particular case that we did.
We had about a 12 to 15 percent better outcome when both parties were both repaired.
And you would think it might be the opposite if one party is prepared and the other doesn't.
You actually get a better result when both parties are prepared.
But it actually showed that preparation has an impact on not only the process, the way people felt about the process, but also in terms of the quantitative outcome, the value that was created.
So we've been very excited about encouraging anybody to do preparation.
It has an impact. This is great.
Yeah, I love it. And so listeners, remember, this is a perfect reminder for you to download those free negotiation guides.
If you go to Americannegotiationinstitute .com slash guide, you can get access to over 15 free negotiation guides from a basic negotiation prep guide, salary negotiation, how to negotiate as an introvert, how to negotiate for your car, all of them for free at that link.
And really, Karen, I think you gave it away.
I think we've been exposed because if people just don't listen to the podcast, but they download the guides and prepare systematically, they'll get significantly better.
Oh, it's true. It's true.
This is great. Well, perfect.
Let's get into the content now.
So for today's episode, very excited for it.
The three things that we're going to talk about are first, what's missing in negotiation?
What are the things that people often miss?
Number two, what are the five dimensions of humanity?
And number three, how do you handle it if the other side isn't using the approach that you're going to describe today?
So very excited for it.
So let's just go ahead and jump into the first one.
What is it that is missing in negotiation today?
Well, it's been fascinating for me in this long journey of studying negotiation, doing negotiation and observing negotiation.
That so much of the attention we traditionally place on negotiation, most people want to hear about strategy and tactics.
What I call, how am I going to get what I want?
And then there's been a lot of attention on the what if or the plan B or the BATNA.
What happens if I don't reach an agreement?
And then as time has moved on, then we really focused a lot on what we want.
All the targets, all the statements we want to make, the issues, what we want and what they want.
That's also been very traditional.
But what I have found that even if someone has their how and their what and the what if really down, many times they forget about the why.
And I'd say in the last 10 years, there's been a lot more focus on the why.
What gives me meaning and purpose and why am I don't have certain interests?
But the piece that I fundamentally really looked at when I finished teaching and had more time to really look at the research, the current new science research, I found out that we spend very little time on who we are.
So I'm finding that focusing more on who we are and who our counterpart is is so critical in helping us to actually know more of what we want and how we're going to behave when we get into a negotiation.
Oh, this is good. Okay.
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There are two sections to emotional intelligence.
So the I and the we.
So understanding yourself as a full person and the emotions that you feel, recognizing them, what they look like, what they feel like, what they sound like, you know, understanding yourself, being able to identify them, and then being able to manage them.
So, when you get upset, what's the very first thing you do?
If you are afraid in a negotiating situation, what is a way that you help to calm yourself down or help to encourage yourself to keep going?
And then the we is focused on other people.
So being able to read the room in a sense, you know, understanding what other people are feeling, what's appropriate at that time, managing the relationship that you have with that person, between that person, whether it's somebody that you're just meeting for the first time or somebody that you've
known forever, you know, but managing that relationship between you two and making sure that it's a successful relationship every time you interact.
So that's the basis of emotional intelligence.
This is great. Okay.
And now what happens if we don't improve our emotional intelligence?
Your whole life will fall apart.
Eq. The thing is, Eq is way more important than Iq and I can think of a lot of different situations where that's true, one that I think a lot of people can relate to when I actually have experience with myself.
If you think of Jim and Dwight from The Office, have you watched The Office before?
Of course. Yeah. Okay, that is my show.
I'm to the point where I'm like analyzing their sales strategies now because I've just been watching it for decades.
So I, you know, when you see Jim, he's really friendly.
He loves people. He's a great connector, really great relationship builder, but he's not, you know, the best salesman and that's fine.
When you think of Dwight, he is really good at what he does, but he is horrible with connecting to people and relationships.
So who gets the promotions every time?
Spoiler alert, it's Jim because he's great with relationship building because he has that Eq.
Dwight has more of an IQ in that area.
So it is possible to develop your emotional intelligence skills.
A lot of people think that it's not.
You're not born with perfect emotional intelligence.
So you can build and develop these skills so that you have more successful relationships with people in your life and in your job and in your business and you know, anywhere.
Yeah, this is great.
And I especially love that you brought in an office reference.
Just perfect. Perfect.
I love that. And now let's go deeper into this because I know there are a lot of people out there who are, let's say, lawyers, people who are maybe engineers or people in procurement.
So people who are dealing with very technical things, very financially different, like challenging types of negotiations.
And a lot of times they would say things like I am not good with the emotional side.
So how do I negotiate without emotion?
And I say, well, you can start by like not having a brain because that's where emotions come from.
It's kind of psychologically not possible.
And then with other people, too, you can't avoid their emotions.
You have to wrestle with it.
But again, a lot of times people say I am not an emotional, I'm not an emotional type of person and they feel like they need to be an emotional person in order to improve their emotional intelligence.
So I really want to go deeper into some of these myths that hold us back when it comes to improving our emotional intelligence because I think there are a lot of self -limiting beliefs, especially in the technical world, especially in the negotiation world.
That actually can be very detrimental when it comes to our development.
Yeah, the one thing that I love about emotional intelligence is that it looks different for everybody.
So you could see someone who cries in front of people constantly, you know, well, not constantly, but cries in front of people.
It's comfortable crying in front of people or, you know, loves to just be loud and big and boisterous in front of other people.
And then there are those who are just really quiet and really meek.
And they both can have a very high emotional intelligence.
It's more about understanding yourself and understanding those emotions and how you manage them.
So you don't have to be an emotional and vulnerable person all the time to have emotional intelligence.
It's just having that understanding and that awareness and the skills to be able to identify.
So I know a lot of IT people who are very matter of fact and right to the point and you know, you call for technical support and go, well, did you do this?
Did you do that? A lot of times a person that they're working with is stressed.
And if they can provide a little bit of reassurance in that situation, boom, you got them, you know, you've made them comfortable.
They are more open and prone to doing what you asked them to do.
The negotiation goes better because you've connected on a level that it didn't take you anything outside of who you normally are to say, okay, I'm here to help.
I'm sorry that this is bothering you.
This is a big issue, isn't it?
Validating those feelings that they're feeling.
Putting yourself in their shoes to understand how frustrated they could be.
I don't, you know, whatever industry it is, just connecting with people on that level.
Just a quick validation can help for, you know, in that whole situation, it could change the whole dynamic.
Oh, this is good. Okay, let me feel free.
The importance of emotion management in difficult conversations.
Why is this so important for the everyday negotiators listening to the show?
Well, the first thing you think about is when you're emotionally charged, when things get a little bit emotional in a conversation, how often do we make good decisions?
You know, I think it's one of those things where you have to recognize the emotions, but then to really get to a productive conversation.
It's kind of a process of recognizing, but then turning to a conversation where you're really guided by reason and your emotions are kind of channeled in a more productive way.
Exactly. So Doug, one of the things that I realized for myself is that when I'm upset or emotional or anything like that, the first thing I want to say is usually the wrong answer.
You know, it's usually taking me in the wrong direction, but that's the thing.
You can spend a lifetime building up a relationship, but you can destroy it in one sentence if you are in the wrong emotional state.
So it's really important because a lot of times we focus so much on the strategies and tactics before the negotiation that we forget to realize that if we don't manage our emotions during the negotiation, we won't be able to put those strategies and tactics into play.
That's right. That's right.
And you know, I think if you look back at one of the basic Stoic lessons, you can go back as far as Epictetus, who was kind of teaching that it's not the things that upset us.
It's our reactions to things that do.
And you know, people probably also are possibly familiar with the Viktor Frankl idea that you have the stimulus and response between there.
There's a space and that's where you have the power to choose your response.
So we have that control.
There's certain things in life we can control, certain things we can.
A lot of things are not in our control, even in a negotiation setting.
But we know we can always fall back on this principle that our response is what we can actually always control.
Absolutely. Yes. There's so many angles for this.
And so let's do this.
Doug, let's first kind of set the stage with the concept of the inner mediator, because I think that's going to be something that a lot of people, that's going to be new to a lot of people.
And then let's go back, let's circle back to the Stoicism quickly, because I don't think you'd be able to utilize that inner mediator if you are not in a place of emotional stability.
It'll be difficult for you to get to that level.
You know, so let's let's touch on that.
When you say inner mediator, what does that mean?
So, yeah, I've come to think of this as finding your inner mediator or using what you might call a mediation mindset.
And so people come to mediators for different reasons when they need assistance resolving a dispute and they ask a neutral third party to come in and take an objective view of a case or a situation and help them see all sides of the discussion and then communicate towards a resolution.
So being a mediator for so long, I realize that looking at situations objectively and without judgment is so essential to what mediators do.
But it also creeps into the way that I manage every day's situations all the time.
So, you know, relating to people going through the mediation process, I started thinking, well, to the extent that people can call on this sort of inner mediator within themselves, not just in a formal setting, but also any time we're involved in a dispute or trying to resolve a conflict, it's a good
mental cue to kind of get in the best position to persuade, resolve conflict and negotiate most effectively.
So you're kind of, to me, it's kind of seeking a zoomed out view of your dispute, your situation.
And you might hear it as getting the 30 ,000 foot view or seeing the forest and the trees or taking the view from the balcony or something like that, where you're able to kind of step away and really get a more objective full picture of what's going on, not just from what you might be kind of sort of,
you're sitting there on your side of the situation, but if you can kind of step back, sometimes it helps us get a better perspective and start to build towards a resolution that's going to work for everybody involved.
I love that. Hello, my friends.
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Let's get to those questions, some of those leftover questions.
And what we'll do is we'll just treat this like a question and answer session.
Well, thank you so much, Klami.
One of the questions that I'd like to bring up that the participants asked was, how do you keep the emotion aspect out of future planning, for example?
We had a person who works with children and teens with disabilities and future planning with families can create a lot of conflict.
So could you help to address that question?
Yes. First, I will give an unsatisfactory response and then give an elaboration that can make you feel a little bit better about it.
So the response is that you cannot keep emotions out of these difficult conversations.
The emotions are going to be a natural byproduct of difficult situations.
And if you are not feeling emotional in these situations to a certain extent, that means you're a psychopath.
And that's another problem, okay?
So let's start there.
Now the real issue becomes, how do we prevent the emotions that are at play from coming into the conversation in a way that is unproductive?
I think that's the bigger issue.
And so let's start first with our own emotions.
And so when it comes to our emotions, we can't just push them down below the surface and simply have that be our strategy.
Because what happens is there will be psychological leakage, emotional leakage that will come out, and it would come out oftentimes at inopportune times.
And so the emotion needs to be addressed.
And in my book, I gave a three -part strategy for addressing conflict, both internally and externally, and it can be applied in the exact same framework, in the exact same order internally and externally.
And that's compassionate curiosity.
And so the steps are, first, acknowledge emotion.
Second, use compassionate curiosity.
And then third, engage in joint problem -solving.
So let's work through this for us within our own minds.
So first, we need to acknowledge the emotion.
Once we feel that thing inside of us, we need to label it.
What is it that we are feeling?
What is the name? And where did it come from?
And so simply labeling the emotion has the impact of kind of giving us a little bit more control and power over it.
Because the emotions come from a part of a brain called the amygdala, which creates these negative emotions and positive emotions.
But the amygdala doesn't lead to rational thinking.
The part of our brain that does lead to rational thinking is the prefrontal cortex.
And the only way we can label that emotion is if we utilize the prefrontal cortex.
So it's a little bit of a mental trick there, because by actually taking the time and slowing down to identify clearly what we're feeling, it forces us to engage a higher level part of our brain.
And so the next step, which is getting curious with compassion, is when we start asking why we feel this way.
Where did this emotion originate from?
And the reason we want to do this with compassion is because we can judge ourselves prematurely.
And if we judge ourselves, what happens is that it stops the process short and we don't analyze beyond that point.
So if I'm saying to myself, Kwame, you're upset, but you shouldn't be upset, you're a lawyer.
You're in conflict all the time.
You should be better than this.
Now I stop investigating.
And there's important information that lies behind there.
So we need to ask ourselves those questions.
And so once we figure out those answers, now we engage in the third step, which is joint problem solving.
And so it might seem weird.
How are we engaging, enjoy problem solving within our head?
And in this stage, what we're doing is we are getting our hearts and minds on the same page so we can create solutions that satisfy both.
Because the reality is the emotions play an important role, and our solutions need to address our emotional needs and our substantive needs.
And through going through this process, it allows you to identify what your emotional need is and then what your substantive need is.
And then when you actually get into the conflict with the other person, now you have an idea, you have a clear understanding of the solutions that would be able to satisfy both.
One of the things that I can hear the participants saying is, well, what if the other party isn't doing the same thing?
How do you get them to do that?
What if they're in denial about their emotions and can't label those?
So maybe that's what you're going to get into.
Yeah, exactly. And like I said, it's the exact same process.
But we often run into those people who don't want to own their emotions.
So if we ask them a question that pertains to it and we say, how are you feeling about this situation or something to that effect, they might resist because they don't want to be vulnerable in that way.
And so they say, emotion, I'm not emotional about it.
This is what I need.
And so just by their tone, we could say, OK, well, there's clearly some emotion back there.
We're not saying that audibly, of course, we're saying that to ourselves.
And so what I often do, and especially I use this especially as a mediator, is I own the emotion for them.
And so sometimes people don't want to own it for themselves.
And so I would say, listen, if I were in your situation, I would be frustrated too.
Or if I were in your situation and I haven't gone through this process, I would be a little bit scared or I wouldn't know exactly what's going to happen.
That would make me feel uncomfortable.
And so simply by acknowledging it for them on their behalf, they could either silently accept it or oftentimes what often happens is the fact that people don't like to be misidentified.
They might not want to tell you, but they hate being mislabeled.
And I remember distinctly in one of my mediations, I said, yeah, if I were in your position, I would be frustrated.
And this woman was stoic the whole time.
And then she said, I'm not frustrated.
I'm angry. And I'm angry because of blah, blah, blah.
Now, hey, now we're getting some gold here.
I hit it. I didn't hit it directly, but I was wrong.
And she corrected me with the correct answer.
And so that is a way that you can kind of circumvent that barrier that prevents other people from sharing their emotion.
And then once you've addressed it.
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