A giant human sized Stanley cup.
You would need a ladder to get to the very top of the cup.
You fill this room sized cup with liquid nitrogen and you lower the temperature to negative 320 degrees Fahrenheit and then you jump inside.
You would not be able to survive more than a few seconds in this type of environment but that is the secret to immortality.
That is how you live forever.
Dippin dots, they actually make their ice cream that way.
You know those little yummy ice balls that taste like rainbow sherbert?
They're flash frozen in this cryogenic process that uses liquid nitrogen.
I mean you could be a living walking dip in dots ice cream ball for the incredibly reasonable price of $200 ,000.
But if you don't have $200 ,000 and you have perhaps closer to $100 ,000 you could just flash freeze your head, keep it in the cooler.
They'll find you a new body.
They'll wake you up.
Good morning. Find you a new body and attach you.
The whole point of cryogenics is that perhaps one day we as humans develop the science to bring people back, revive patients and eventually even cure them and treat them of the diseases that killed them in the first place.
To resuscitate then save them.
That's a game plan.
But you can't bring back a clump of ashes or a body that's turned into fertilizer inside of a coffin.
You can only bring back bodies that have been preserved, kept in the freezer for a rainy day.
It's like emergency prepping but by freeze drying your whole body.
Is that like something that's being done right now?
Is that true? Yes. There's a few companies around the world that'll do it.
One of the biggest ones is in the United States.
Wow. So like billionaires.
Yes. They're frozen.
Yes, they're frozen.
You could even set your life insurance beneficiary to be that company so that you can get frozen if you don't have billions of dollars at your disposal.
That's crazy. The whole argument that some people believe in this concept is there are millions of people who are alive today who they were once frozen.
They were frozen sprams or eggs, frozen embryos.
And we found the science, right?
So why can't we find the science later?
They write, in a sense, those people were cryogenically frozen and yet they are alive today.
Listen, I'm not saying I support this argument.
That's just the argument that they have.
But a lot of people think the whole situation is kind of eerie.
First of all, at that price point, only the wealthy have a shot at being immortal.
Second of all, it just feels wrong.
Like it's going against human principles.
Why do people have to try and be immortal?
Third, it's just kind of plain stupid, is what people say.
One cryo -biologist says, I mean, there is absolutely no current way, no proven scientific way to actually freeze a whole human down to that temperature without completely destroying.
And I mean obliterating the tissues.
So there's actually no proof that you're even preserving anything.
But wealthy people everywhere are lining up to freeze their bodies anyway.
Side note, they're also freezing their pets to take with them into the afterlife.
They think if it works, it works.
If it doesn't, they died anyway.
What's the problem?
But in Taiwan, a wealthy boy is frozen for a completely different reason.
For the past year in this small morgue in Taiwan, he's not cryogenically frozen, but it almost feels like it because he's kept in limbo.
An 18 year old's body has been kept in the morgue freezer, just floating around.
May 2023, 18 year old Lai suspiciously fell from the 10th floor balcony.
The reason that his death has been driving Taiwan and netizens all over the world absolutely insane is the fact that every single thing up to his death is suspicious.
A week prior to Lai's death, he mysteriously inherits 15 and a half million dollars or 500 million Taiwanese dollars.
Two hours before his death, 18 year old Lai marries a 26 year old man that he's only met twice.
Then he dies. Not only is his death this confusing question of what actually happened, but also now who gets his 15 and a half million dollar fortune?
We would like to thank today's sponsors who have made it possible for Rotten Mango to support the Taiwan Root Medical Peace Corps.
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Just a few disclaimers for today's case, this episode includes mentions of mental health struggles, discussions of alleged self exit.
If these topics are uncomfortable or triggering, please take care of yourself.
Reach out to a friend.
We will see you in the next one.
So with that being said, let's get started.
There's a lot of weird things that happen when you work in a morgue.
People might not know this, but bodies move when they're dead.
Dead bodies move when gases are being released by a corpse.
Think of it like a balloon.
They're gonna make noises.
They're gonna move their body just because the gas is being slowly released.
They can make corpses moan, shift positions.
Sometimes they'll even try to sit up suddenly.
And then the smell.
I mean, yeah, obviously the smell of death, which is not pleasant and people talk about it all the time.
But also, one morgue worker states, you have smelt nothing until you have smelt the farts of the dead.
Safe to say, being a morgue worker is not an easy job.
But even for morgue workers, this incident in Taiwan.
Is weird. This past week in this small tiny morgue in Taiwan.
It's been pretty busy.
The first major blow was a week ago a neighborhood grandpa grandpa lie had passed.
Everyone in this town knew grandpa lie.
He lived in this small two -story resident building in this neighborhood.
I mean the house is nothing grand.
It's like 60 years old.
The house itself, but not in the original Spanish style home selling above market price.
Literally in the very humble way.
It's 60 years old and it looks 60 years old.
Grandpa and grandma lie.
They raise their kids in that house and now they have this grandchild lie now grandma lie.
You would see her every weekend just working at the market selling produce in one of her stalls.
Unless you knew the family.
Well, you would never even suspect that they were one of the wealthiest families in the entire neighborhood grandpa lie.
You would see him walking in and out of this house wearing the same t -shirt shorts and sandals.
He only rode around in his bicycle.
Not even a motorbike a bicycle.
He just had four sets of clothes that he would change in and out of every four days.
You would see him in the same exact outfit and then when he would shower after a long day.
He absolutely refuses to use the shower head.
He thinks it wastes more water.
So he would instead grab one of those large buckets collect the water and there get a pale to collect the water.
And then he would use the pale to scoop the water over himself.
That way you don't have the water running the whole time.
Well, not for longer last week.
He had fallen in the shower and passed away.
His body was cremated by this very morgue.
That was not an easy case.
It was very sad. Well, how did you just fell and died?
Yeah, he was very old.
He had a lot of health conditions and then he fell and I think it made things worse.
So that's why they say when you get older a slip and fall is sometimes a death sentence for people.
It wasn't anything strange?
No, he didn't die mysteriously, but it was overall a very sad case.
But in morgues you become very familiar with death.
All you can hope is well he was old.
Hopefully he lived a very full life.
The morgue director, he runs over to Gao.
This is a week after grandpa lie has been cremated.
Gao is this famous forensic expert.
Mr. Gao you have been doing this for 40 years.
I have been in this field for 30 years.
Yes, I've seen many cases, but this this is not a normal case.
This body is very strange.
Gao is like, who is this morgues manager?
Yes, he works at the morgue and he's like something weird is going on.
I've been running this morgue for the past 30 years and I'm telling you I've never seen anything like this.
And there's a forensic pathologist there and Gao is like, okay, well, what's going on?
The injuries just don't make sense.
I don't understand how this could have happened.
Gao is confused. What do you mean by that?
This 18 year old boy fell from 10 stories tall from the 10th floor balcony in terms of broken bones.
He just has a broken arm.
That's it a minor broken arm, not even a severely mangled arm.
I just don't believe that he has fallen from the 10th floor.
It doesn't make any sense to me.
But the police are saying he fell from 10 stories tall and passed away.
But more than that this child's grandfather grandpa lie had passed away a week ago and he just inherited 15 and a half million dollars.
He suspiciously dies a week after becoming one of the wealthiest residents in this town.
Tell me how that makes sense.
They decide to alert the next of kin.
And when you think of the next of kin for an 18 year old who passed away, you're thinking father, mother, some sort of parental figure, right?
But in this case, it's tricky because this 18 year old also has a husband.
He just got married two hours before he died.
So who is next of kin right now?
May 4th 2023. So over a year ago from today around 11 a .m.
The local police in Taiwan get a call.
Hi, there's a man. What is the man doing?
Like what's going on?
He's fainted on the street near the apartment building.
I don't really know what's going on.
Just please hurry. It's a very vague phone call.
Authorities rush to the apartment complex and clearly there's a medical emergency.
Somebody needs our attention.
They run down the sidewalk and there is a man.
I mean, you could hardly say a man.
He he looks like a boy, a very young boy.
And the way that he's collapsed fainted onto the ground is a bit strange.
He's laying mostly on this little grass patch next to the apartment building.
His head is a little bit on the sidewalk.
He's wearing black shorts, a black shirt.
The way he's laying though is kind of like one of those crime scene body tape cutouts.
He's sprawled onto the ground.
Some witnesses state he looked like he's just taking a nap.
He laid down on the grass in the sun, fell asleep.
That's his posture.
But once you look closely, you see he's not waking up.
One of his sandals is in the bushes behind him.
Another one is near his body.
The glasses are not on his face.
They're laying next to him in the grass.
The police look at the guy next to the boy on the ground.
He's 30. He's wearing this like red white and black shirt.
What's going on? Are you the one that called?
I live in this apartment building.
I was just walking by and I saw him laying here like this and he's unresponsive.
So they call in medical professionals.
They rush the boy on the ground to the hospital.
Doctors try resuscitating him multiple times.
But after all the unsuccessful attempts, he is pronounced dead.
The police don't even know this guy's name yet.
They don't find a wallet or ID in his pocket.
He's effectively a John Doe ready to be taken to the morgue.
The official report on the police reads, ludel, which basically just means body collapsed suddenly on the ground.
I mean, this is a very vague way of describing an incident.
It literally means body on the ground, injured, maybe deceased could be from heat exhaustion, could be from a car accident, could be from murder.
It's very vague. It doesn't tell you the method or anything specific.
It's just a body on the ground.
Yeah, the police conclude that John Doe likely passed away from an accident, slipped from a balcony or the roof or passed by self -exit.
There's clearly no signs of foul play.
That's what they think.
There's no signs of physical assault or defensive wounds.
Nothing. They do a brief, slightly non -existent sweep of the area, get all the witness statements that they can from all the residents that could have potentially heard or seen something, and they call it a day.
They're rather nonchalant about this whole thing, but some of the neighbors are not.
They're taking this very seriously.
One of the neighbors was certain that something very strange was going to happen that day.
They could feel it.
And how exactly did you know that something was going to happen like this?
Well, you know what it means when a snake shows up in your dream?
It's just not good luck.
It's a bad omen. It's just we've been having a lot of dreams about snakes.
There was one snake who kept following us around, and then there was another snake who was following us around, and then it split up into three snakes.
One snake split into thirds, and then three snakes evolved, and they started chasing us.
I mean, it's got to be a bad omen, right?
Then the same day, we woke up around 11 a .m.
You know, the couple, the neighbors, they coincidentally had been out on their balcony on the ninth floor and heard this loud bang from outside.
And they quickly peer over the balcony.
They don't see any sort of body.
So they are looking over.
They don't see anything and they thought, okay, they move on and now the police are here and someone has died.
They've also heard after the fact, the boy that died, he has a motorbike, right?
The bike license plate reads 9513.
Could you say that please?
9513. In Chinese, Some said it's for his mom's birthday, right?
But you know what it also sounds like?
Save me, doctor. Say 9513 and then say save me doctor.
That's crazy. The police said, okay, that makes sense.
You guys are crazy.
There are no clear signs of foul play.
The person likely jumped, self -exited.
The neighbors heard a loud bang around the same time.
Case closed. Nothing more to see here.
Just an unfortunate situation that needs no more investigating.
John Doe's body is already at the morgue, ready to be cremated.
When the police start getting some frantic calls, a woman named Chen starts freaking out, calling the police nonstop to follow missing person's report.
My 18 year old son, Lai, has been missing since this morning.
I can't get in touch.
I've tried calling.
Nothing. He's not responding.
It's been half a day, ma 'am, that he's been gone.
Okay, he's 18. He could be out with some friends.
This does not really seem to warrant our involvement right now.
You don't get it. Today was the day that he was going to carry his grandfather to his final resting spot.
His grandfather died a week ago.
We held a funeral and now he's going to take his ashes to be placed into his final memorial.
Mother Chen tries to explain that her son's grandfather, her father -in -law, had passed a week ago and this is a very, very big deal and absolutely nothing would stand in front of Lai's commitment.
Of being the earn bearer and bringing his grandpa to his resting place.
This is a huge deal.
He did not take this responsibility lightly.
So for him to just disappear and skip an event like this does not make sense.
Every single call she's made to him has gone straight to voicemail.
This is very out of character.
The police ask what he was wearing.
She responds black shorts and a black shirt and it's finally clicking in the police's mind.
Okay, wait the person that we picked up earlier today, the one that passed away in front of the apartment building, maybe it's him.
How do they have a body and not be able to identify that body like right away?
Yeah, nobody around the area knew who this person was either.
So they asked Chen to come to the morgue and that's when she sees her child.
It's her little boy Lai, her 18 year old son.
The police try to tell her we think he may have taken his own life.
What are you saying?
That can't be me. She's explaining to them and she says this over and over again.
Trust me. He would never do something like that.
What are you saying to me right now?
And she wants to know what was he even doing in that apartment complex to begin with?
This doesn't make any sense.
You need to investigate.
What do you mean by that?
He doesn't live there.
No, this is not where they live.
They live in a two -story house that's 60 years old.
The police find out that's where his husband lives and now mother Chen is even more confused.
You're talking about my 18 year old son.
Husband. Like what do you mean husband?
First of all, he's not gay.
Second of all, he's not married.
What husband are you talking about?
The police pull up the records just two hours before he died.
He went and got married to a man that lived in that very apartment building.
I mean, there's just no way right two hours before he suspiciously dies.
So Chen is demanding that the authorities look into it.
None of this makes sense.
First of all, who even is the husband?
Second of all, whoever it is needs to be investigated because just a week ago lie inherited 15 and a half million dollars.
So this so -called husband now stands to inherit all of it.
If the police go off the timeline that the mother gave them, that means 18 year old lie left the house around 7 a .m.
to speak with one of the family's property managers about his new asset transfers.
The property manager, his name is Junior and his dad, Shaw Senior.
So Shaw Senior, Shaw Junior is how they're referred to, right?
Junior has been working with the family for 20 years.
He's 26, but his dad has been involved with the lie family for the past two decades.
So this is nothing out of the ordinary likely there's going to be a lot more meetings now because 18 year old lie has to learn how to handle this massive real estate portfolio Chen tells her son be home by 9 a .m.
Be back in two hours so that we can put your grandfather in his final resting place.
But instead at 9 a .m.
lie is at the courthouse getting married to this 26 year old property manager.
Lie is 18. Yes, the property manager Junior is 26 years old.
Wait, wait, wait so lie is going to finish the asset transfer.
It's yeah, it's pretty much done.
But now the property manager is like I'm going to show you how to manage this whole massive portfolio.
You just inherit it.
But instead they go to the marriage license office.
Get married. What? It's so weird.
I mean, it's just there's a lot of questions.
The police want to ask this new husband of lies.
The first being why didn't you acknowledge that your husband was the man on the ground when you called 911?
This was the man standing next to his body calling 911.
He was one of the witnesses in the red white black shirt.
Why did he not mention at all?
Hey, that's my husband that I just married two hours ago.
That is so crazy. In fact, the authorities remember asking him, do you know this man?
And he said no, he did not.
He shook his head and just stood there watching as medical professionals strapped him onto a stretcher and drove him away.
He never asked to what can I be in the ambulance?
Which hospital is he going to?
Is he going to be okay?
Why would he he's a complete stranger?
But he's not he says husband.
Why would you not acknowledge your own husband to the authorities?
What are you hiding?
In fact, now that the police think about it.
There's so many questions to be asked like why would an 18 year old marry a 26 year old?
How long have they been dating before getting married?
Why did the 18 year old even inherit so much money?
Why would an 18 year old need to own 15 separate properties amounting to a 15 and a half million dollar real estate portfolio?
Who is lie and how on earth is he so rich?
This show is sponsored by BetterHelp when I spend time with my nieces, Sophie and Mia.
I am always amazed by how curious they are at the world.
I know that we all dread the endless YYY from kids, but it's also so fascinating to see how curious they are and it made me realize that I've lost a lot of that curiosity because I'm just always a little bit stressed about anxiety and what if I sound weird and what if I am doing this and I've pushed
a lot of hobbies off to the side.
My therapist has made me realize that I need to take more time to take care of myself to help grow that inner child and open up that curiosity again.
So with my therapist, I've been trying to think of all the things I wanted to do as a kid and we essentially made this mini bucket list for myself of things that I want to try and learn.
Painting, pottery, finally beating my husband at badminton and making the list with my therapist has made me feel very excited.
I feel like I've reconnected with this sense of wonder that I used to have as a kid and I just always wanted to learn new things.
It sounds really cliche, but therapy is very helpful for everyone.
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The Lye family has a lot of secrets.
But the one thing that's not kept well hidden is Grandpa Lye has a favorite grandchild.
He loves his grandbaby Lye.
He's even nicknamed him Little Lye.
It's argued Grandpa Lye loves Little Lye more than his own children.
His other grandchildren.
I mean Lye is the clear favorite.
It's not even a competition.
But even then, it doesn't make sense that Lye would be the sole heir to the entire family fortune.
Unless Grandpa Lye and his direct children did something very horrendous.
So Grandpa Lye has five adult children.
Two sons, three daughters.
None of them got any of his money.
It all went to his grandchild, Lye.
Does he have other grandchild?
Yes. So none of this makes sense.
Why did it all go to just one person?
And typically even if you wanted to go to one grandchild, you might give it to your child first.
And then when they pass, they pass it on to their child.
This is not very customary.
And especially in very traditional Asian families like the Lyes, someone might split up the inheritance to be quite equal for all their children.
Some might choose to give more to their sons than their daughters, right?
But it's just this is out of the norm.
Now Grandpa Lye literally made his fortune in the most normal but also unhinged way possible just like a little side note.
He used to work in the rice milling business with his wife Grandma Lye.
They would sit there all day long removing husks from the rice grain because every single rice grain has an outer shell layer that we don't eat.
You got to remove it right for that one singular grain of rice.
That was Grandpa Lye and Grandma Lye's job.
That's all they did every single day.
And when they finally had enough money saved up, Grandpa Lye starts buying a property in the area and this was at the time when this area was not popping off.
So he's buying cheap property that he did not think would ever go up to this value.
The area gets gentrified and now he's worth over 15 and a half million dollars USD, which is 500 million Taiwanese dollars.
Wow, that's crazy. Yeah, but you know Grandpa Lye's first two kids, their sons, which means everybody expected to get the most inheritance for those two boys.
They got nothing, neither did his daughters.
Instead, every single penny in property is transferred directly to his grandson Lye, which feels a bit reckless to outsiders.
I mean, I'm sure Grandpa Lye's sons and daughters are of age.
They're quite mature at this point, likely have their own families, but instead he gives everything to an 18 year old grandson and it's not even in a trust because sometimes you put the money in a trust and you're like every month you only get a thousand dollars.
No, it's just like here you go.
You have all the deeds to the properties.
You could do whatever you want with them at this point, but you're 18.
Is he in school, the 18 year old?
He just graduated high school.
He's about to go to college, which is very, I would say it's kind of a dangerous thing to do and not put it into a trust.
It's just not the best age I think to inherit that much money.
In terms of estate planning, this is not the norm.
So why didn't everything get passed down to Lye's father instead of Lye?
Well because at that point Lye's dad is dead.
Yeah, you could kind of tell that something odd was going on with the Lye family one day.
There's so many residents in the Lye house than the next.
Only three people are left in that house.
Maybe everyone moved to a bigger city or maybe something strange happened in the Lye family.
Like I said, you have grandma and grandpa lie, their five adult children, two sons, three daughters, and it seems like since they were young grandpa lie was the most worried for his second son.
Let's call him Sam.
His second son was later diagnosed with an intellectual disability, which made it a bit trickier for him to have quote -unquote normal social interactions, if you will, which I think is fine.
There's so many ways he can find joy through social interactions that aren't the quote normal way, but grandpa lie is so insistent.
He's like my son needs to have a normal traditional lifestyle.
He needs to marry a woman and have children with this woman.
That is it. I'm not taking anything else.
It seems like his son is not even interested.
I also don't know if the intellectual disability would impact his ability to consent.
Let's hope not. I don't know how severe it is, but regardless grandpa lie is on this mission to marry his second son off.
All of his other adult children are getting married.
His second son needs a wife.
He flies to Indonesia, finds a random woman that he thinks his son may or may not like, brings her back to Taiwan, has her marry his second son.
The two get married.
She does end up having a child with the second son, Sam, a daughter and the whole marriage starts falling apart.
I mean it's doomed from the start.
The two have no romantic or emotional interests in each other.
They're just strangers who got married.
The woman from Indonesia was at least promised a life with a bit more financial security, which is great, right?
But like at what cost?
She would later say living in Taiwan as an Indonesian woman was very isolating.
It's hard for her to make friends.
She doesn't have people she can relate to and honestly she hates her father -in -law grandpa lies sucks.
At first, she thought he was the world's biggest micromanager, which is already bad.
Anytime she would be alone in the kitchen or in the restroom, she would notice out of the corner of her eye.
He's snooping on her.
He's literally peeping on her and she thought okay.
He's making sure I'm doing everything to standard the way he likes it, but eventually it evolves away from micromanaging and it feels much more like sexual harassment.
Even when he's caught, they would make eye contact and this man would not stop.
It drove her insane.
She would eventually divorce Samuel, her husband, and she feels no affection towards him or anybody else.
She leaves her daughter with the lies and flees back to Indonesia.
Three years later, grandpa lie brings a new woman into the house to marry his son, Chen from China.
She also knows very little about her new future husband, but she marries him anyway for her own reasons.
Initially, everyone in the family thought this is good.
Finally, the family is coming back together.
Everything feels a lot more settled in our hearts.
Now, she's a good addition to the family.
She gives birth to a son, lie.
Grandpa lie and little lie are two peas in a pod.
Everybody's happy. Everybody is content except for grandma lie.
She's looking at lie.
She's looking at Chen.
She's looking at her second son.
She's looking at her husband.
This is not right. About a year before Chen gave birth, grandma lies started feeling this sneaking suspicion that there was someone evil inside of her home.
You ever just feel uneasy around someone?
You can't really figure out why, but it feels like the way they carry themselves, they act like they know something that you don't know is the feeling and you just can't, you don't understand it.
But maybe grandma lies thinking way too deep into it and she's just so traumatized by what happened with her previous daughter -in -law that she's overanalyzing every single person inside this house.
Well, one day grandma lie comes back from grocery shopping and she goes to the back door.
She yanks the handle, nothing.
The handle doesn't get the doors locked.
This is very, very strange.
Grandma lie always for the past decades that she's been living here leaves this door unlocked when she goes grocery shopping so that when she comes back, it's easy for her to open.
She doesn't have to pull out her keys with all these groceries around her arm.
Never in all the years that she's been living here has the door been locked when she goes grocery shopping.
She's about to knock or shout for someone to open the door for her, but she decides against it.
Instead, she gently places all the bags onto the ground goes to check the side window of the house.
She stacks two chairs on top, just so she can try and see she doesn't end up seeing anything much, but she could hear everything.
You can clearly hear the sound of the bed moving in a rhythmic pace and soft moaning.
The only people home right now are Chen, her son's new wife and Grandpa lie, her husband.
But because she didn't record it, she didn't even see it with her own two eyes.
Nobody really believed her or perhaps she was gaslit into thinking that she imagined it all and now she's looking at lie.
She's looking at Chen.
She's looking at her son.
She's looking at her husband and it is so very clear that grandpa lie does not just favor lie because he's the newest grandchild.
He favors lie because he is his child.
That's his son, not his grandson.
Whoa. So okay. So the grandpa is actually the dad.
Wow. Okay. I see. Yeah.
And the grandma knows about this.
Yes. Well, she knew that a year before Chen gave birth, that she's heard very suspicious things.
She thought she was going crazy, somehow convinces herself to get rid of this thought and then a year later, Chen gives birth to a baby boy and she's analyzing the whole situation and she's like, this is weird.
So this is shared by grandma.
Mm -hmm. Yeah. This was actually shared by grandma during a court process that we're about to get into, but it's now becoming redugged up.
Now that 18 year old lie has been found suspiciously dead.
Okay. So this is not like public information.
This is information that grandma finally shared today.
Oh, yeah, this is not public information.
I mean, they try it's a little bit public in the fact that I'm sure if you go to, I don't know Taiwan's FOIA process, if they have some sort of process where you can get access to court documents, I don't know if this would be sealed court documents.
I don't know the laws over there, but it did take place in court.
There was a whole court proceeding at the time, 18 years ago, but not many people knew about it.
It was not common knowledge.
So like the way grandma's sharing this story, it made it sound like she didn't confront anyone say, hey, this is your son, right?
She's about to. Right, right.
I'm saying when they were all alive, it wasn't like in the whole family.
It wasn't like everyone treated him like he's the son.
He was still treated as a grandson.
Well, once everybody finds out the truth, everything falls apart.
Okay. Okay. So once she sees this, she grabs lie and she's like, I'm going to be back.
I'm bringing my grandson to a dentist appointment.
On the way there, she's swabbing his saliva, sends that in along with DNA from Grandpa lie.
She is right lie is grandpa lies biological child, not biological grandchild.
This is when like 18 years ago.
Yes. When lie was a baby.
Yes. She does a DNA test.
Yes. Grandma lie waste no time.
She immediately brings her husband to court with this new DNA test in hand.
She's not filing for divorce, but rather she's trying to get her husband convicted for adultery.
She's like, you're going to jail.
This is where the theory is slightly diverge.
Some say that Chen, the mom has always been involved with grandpa lie that he had gone to China, met Chen started an affair with her and as a way to get her to come live in Taiwan and not just in the same neighborhood as him.
He's just like, let me take it one step further.
How can she live with me in the same house with my wife?
Ah, Mary, my son so that you can get Taiwanese citizenship and we can do nasty things together on the side in the same house and no one will ever know other sources state that just like his son's first wife grandpa lies started making advances towards Chen after she married the second son, but most
netizens seem to lean towards the first version one comment reads so this whole thing might not be an affair between the father -in -law and daughter -in -law.
It's more like a man and his mistress coming up with a scheme to pose as his daughter -in -law by marrying his disabled son so that they can continue the affair.
Damn, that's a netizen comment.
Either way, ultimately grandpa lie and Chen were fined and sentenced to three months in prison for adultery.
They do their best to hide this from everyone else to make sure nobody finds out that something so bizarrely incestuous has happened in their home, but you can't really hide it from the rest of the lie kids.
The family is not having a good time digesting this shocking piece of information.
I don't even think that this is something you can go online and try to get some mental help with.
You would need specialized therapy to deal with a specific level of trauma like this lies have siblings that he's been calling aunt and uncle for most of his childhood.
They felt really betrayed by grandpa lie.
They say we don't even know how we should refer to this boy anymore.
Is he our nephew? Is he our little brother?
They did notice that grandpa lie was always doting online being overprotective, but they thought maybe he's just the star grandchild the one that always hangs out with grandpa lie.
So he gets favored.
They didn't realize it's because grandpa knew it's not his grandchild but his son until you know, this trial, of course, they had always been this very tight family that loves spending time together.
But one of the adult children of grandpa lie said after this announcement their whole family turned into a battlefield all the adult children had come back to the house to confront their dad about the news.
One of the daughters said my father refused to come downstairs and wanted us to leave.
I told my father that since the child now calls him grandpa if he and his daughter -in -law have another child in the future.
What would they call him before I could finish my father got so angry.
He threw a flower pot at me and tried to attack me my brother and mother intervened which resulted in my father chasing us all out of the house.
Eventually the family reaches an agreement of sorts.
If you can call it that grandpa lie would stop his adulterous relationship with Chen and he will transfer property to grandma lie.
Grandma lie does try and get Chen to leave her family.
But allegedly she states Chen asked for nearly a million dollars in order to leave grandma lie decides if that's how it's going to be.
I'm just going to leave grandma lie leaves the house but she never divorces her husband and this is important later and from there the family just starts drifting apart grandma lie never speaks to her husband again unless it's through a representative grandpa lies relationship with his kids are never
the same and he just chooses to live in that family home with Chen and his new son lie for the next 18 years.
So it's grandpa Chen and the grandson so technically grandpa daughter -in -law and son or mom and dad and son but does the grandson cause him grandpa or dad?
He keeps calling him grandpa because that's what he's used to but it does seem like he knows that's his dad eventually.
I don't think he found out when he was a kid.
I don't know how long they shielded him from it, but it's a little unclear but he does eventually find out but by that point it had been long enough of calling him grandpa that he doesn't stop.
I see now side note during this point Chen's husband, so grandpa lies second son ends up passing away.
He wasn't in great health.
He had liver cancer before this whole family found out what was going on.
So it seemed like he passed away before realizing what his father had done from the outside because he passed away.
Everyone just assumed it's grandpa lie living with his deceased son's wife, the widow and his grandchild lie helping raise him since his son is no longer around.
But in reality, like I said, he's living with technically as mistress and their son.
He'd also quietly adopted as his own son.
This is where the case gets even more strange.
There's a Chinese saying which translates to dirty family secrets stay home.
Essentially don't air your dirty laundry outside.
The lie family sticks by this rule.
Nobody talks about it outside.
The only people outside of the attorneys, the court, the judges, that know this dark family secret.
I mean, they know that grandpa and grandma are no longer together, but that's about it.
The only people that know the truth that this is grandpa lies, actual biological kid, our junior and his dad, the property managers, because they're the notaries for grandpa lie for the past 20 years.
They're also his estate planners.
If anyone is going to be trusted by grandpa lie, it's going to be them.
So not only do they know that lie is grandpa lies, biological son, but they also know that lie is going to be inheriting everything after grandpa lies death.
They know that the other grandchildren, his other kids, his wife, they're getting nothing.
They are aware of the fact that lie is going to be worth over 15 and a half million dollars.
The moment that grandpa lie dies.
And interestingly enough, a week after he dies, junior and lie get married.
So people have this question of, well, maybe it's love.
Maybe throughout all of this, they end up falling in love.
Like why wouldn't that be a case?
Why is it so suspicious?
Is that even up for debate?
You know, but then why would lie be dead?
Was it some sort of freak accident?
Was it self -exit? Is it murder disguised as a self -exit?
What's going on? From Junior's perspective of this relationship, he states that the day of their marriage, the day that lie dies, they went and got Starbucks for breakfast.
They drove to the courthouse and it's more like a household registration office.
It's nothing fancy or romantic.
It looks like a DMV.
You register your marriage.
Just the papers. They did that around 9 in the morning, got legally married, went back to Junior's 10th floor condo and started watching demon Slayer, the anime.
Then they drank a little bit of beer and that was it.
Part of this can actually be verified through CCTV footage from inside the elevator in the building.
You can see that the day that junior and lie enter the elevator, the first time is around 8 45 a .m.
likely after breakfast.
Then they go out through the stairs to get married.
Then when they come back it's around 10 a .m.
and they're in the elevator going back up to the unit.
But lie didn't tell anyone that he's getting married that day.
No, nobody, nobody.
But through the CCTV footage, it doesn't look like he's being held hostage.
He's not being kidnapped.
He's not being dragged and tied up.
It's just the oddest thing and then they get up at 10 a .m.
an hour later lie is dead outside the apartment building.
If this is all true, then he fell from the balcony.
I mean, how does he just fall from the balcony?
Was he very drunk because his toxicology reports do not indicate that he was heavily intoxicated.
So junior is just explaining the day to the authorities and now to the public but people are still confused.
Sure. You're telling us exactly the steps but nothing makes sense and juniors like hold on.
Listen, I'm not done.
So around 11 a .m. I decide I'm going to get into the shower juniors like I'm sweaty.
It's been a long morning.
It's just been a rough day.
So he leaves lie alone in the living room with demon Slayer playing on the TV goes to the restroom showers when he gets out the living room is empty lie is not there.
He's just gone vanished.
There's nothing amiss.
There's no signs of a struggle.
Nothing. He just poof husband is gone.
It's like he never existed but then he looks on the counter in his phone and his wallet are on the table.
So he's like, okay, I'm not hallucinating junior explains.
He starts searching the entire building for his newlywed husband.
He checks the whole building.
He uses the stairs because the elevator wouldn't be convenient then he goes outside around 11 o 9 a .m.
That's when he sees his newlywed husband dead on the ground.
The way he describes it makes it seem like lie was just very sad about his life and probably decided to self -exit but lies mom is saying none of that makes sense.
First of all, she had no clue that he was getting married that day on top of that the morning that they were getting married and lie had died.
She was so frantic looking for her son.
She was calling every single person in her contact list asking if they had seen lie including junior.
She called Junior and he acted like he had no clue what she was talking about stating that he had no idea where lie could possibly be.
In fact, according to lies mom junior told her well, there's no point in reporting him missing to the police because he hasn't been missing for 24 hours.
But instead I can help you look for him.
She thought it was strange then at the moment too.
Because it's like what's it to you if I report it, but now even more so knowing that he was very busy getting married calling the police reporting the death of a stranger who happens to be his husband aka her son.
She also states passionately.
There was no reason for lie to want to self -exit.
He was getting ready to head into University where he was going to be studying philosophy.
He just inherited millions of dollars.
He knows he's inherited millions of dollars.
Why else would he be reaching out and hanging out with his property manager?
Most people feel like if they were lie you feel like your life is just getting started at 18.
Yeah, one psychiatrist who I don't think is personally related to this case at all, but I guess an expert was interviewed for a news network because all of Taiwan is just trying to understand what the hell is going on right now.
Everything is so vague.
The psychiatrist States this could be categorized as a flash marriage which is after meeting someone a few times you just get married out of nowhere without letting any friends and family know especially if it's the same -sex marriage people might feel like oh I can't tell anyone because I don't want
the judgment. So let's just do it and deal with the consequences later because maybe you have friends who are homophobic.
Maybe your family won't accept.
There's all these reasons but but flash marriages are quite passionate and pulse of emotional.
I mean think about you're getting married in Vegas.
Let's go to Vegas. Yeah, but these two they don't have that level of enthusiasm at all.
So why would they be getting married?
Even if it is passionate misguided love, why would they do it so recklessly and why would Junior not identify himself as the new spouse at the scene of the incident?
The psychiatrist goes on to kind of armchair diagnose the situation.
She states she believes that life was going through a lot.
She points out that between the ages of 12 and 18 because of the fact that he was grandpa's biological son.
He's not having a normal stable family life on top of that from a psychological standpoint.
This is the puberty stage.
Individuals tend to be a bit more rebellious and his family life is very complicated.
She suspects that lie might be going through complex emotions and could have experienced a lack of affection from his family.
Not only that his entire family's assets were now going towards him.
So how would the other members of the family look at him?
It has been reported that a few days before lies death at grandpa lies funeral grandma lie and the other half siblings slash aunts and uncles were pissed because by this point they know what the inheritance is looking like.
Yeah, so it's possible that he wanted to escape this.
Then you have Junior of the Shaw family who has been handling their family inheritance for decades which could give him a very reliable impression.
Maybe Junior is on his side.
Maybe Junior knows more than he does about the inheritance and how to handle it manage it navigate all of this.
She states so the very few times they meet perhaps lie develops a firm Reliance or a sense of security towards Junior.
The psychiatrist is then asked.
I mean, I'm sure maybe that could explain his emotional feelings, but not really like if he felt that way.
He would have found a way to live with Junior or stay with Junior.
Why get married out of nowhere?
It's just so random.
It's not like he was spending every day with Junior and then he decides let's just get married.
The psychiatrist responds.
Well, that has to do with the family unit.
We have a dependency on families.
Once he leaves his family home, he will have no family.
But if he marries Junior, he will have a new family and a strong sense of belonging.
I think that's a very strange explanation because to me that doesn't make sense.
If I go back to when I was 18 and I needed a greater sense of security, I would find it with my friends.
I'm not going to find it in this strange 26 year old that I can't relate to that.
I have no real connections with.
It feels more plausible that with all this money, he would just go recklessly marry his high school, sweetheart.
Right. Then this, this is very strange.
Additionally, people start coming out of the woodworks to explain.
Well, first of all, lies not gay, which normally I would not take these types of testimonials to heart because there could be a lot of reasons why someone might feel the need to hide their sexuality from others.
But just listen, there's a destination.
They're getting to first lies mom states.
I mean, he's just not gay.
Like I just don't know what else to say to you.
I mean, yeah, there's a lot of parents who can't make sense of a completely normal relationship, but truly he's not gay lies.
Teachers have come out to say that well recently, I don't know if we can say that he's not gay, but recently we do know that he had a crush on a female classmate of his that too had would appeared to be mutual feelings for each other or at least that's what life thought.
They would work together.
They would do homework together.
They talk together.
They would write these little love letters together.
But recently she left she was like, I'm actually not trying to date you lie was so heartbroken.
He had to get counseling at the school to get over this rejection.
So they're saying again, we're not saying he's not gay, but like it's just if there was no indication that he's gay.
In fact, there were so many indications that he was very hung up on this female classmate of his again, that's not to say that he can't be bisexual or anything.
It's just on top of everything going on.
All of this seems really strange and really random.
The teacher also alleged that well lies not actually want to enjoy physical contact with other guys.
Again, that doesn't determine when sexuality.
I'm just letting you know what people have been saying that are involved in the case.
The teacher argues everyone has different boundaries when it comes to physical touch.
But live is not particularly fond of physical touch from guys, even when they were just being playful and rough housing.
He didn't enjoy it not even in the slightest.
He just seemed kind of uncomfortable by it all again that has nothing to do with sexuality.
But the teacher is arguing truly nothing indicates that he would randomly get married to a man.
It's just there was nothing.
There was no hint. There was no writing.
There was nothing again.
I don't know how much water that holds but one thing investigators did note is the day of lies death.
He did Google for the very first time about the effectiveness of same -sex marriage.
It's not even a reddit post of like I'm gay.
I want to get married.
My parents don't approve reddit.
It's literally the effectiveness of same -sex marriage effectiveness.
What exactly does that mean?
So same -sex marriage was legalized in 2019 in Taiwan.
So I wonder if it was new information.
I know it's been like four years in 2023, which is when he passes but it sounds like he's trying to Google is it the same legally as a heterosexual marriage?
Because the word effectiveness is so important.
Yeah, I also wonder like at what time?
Earlier that morning.
Before they got married.
See, that's not something you Google like right before you get married.
Yeah, that's something that you thought about you get married because you want to get married.
Like you think about that for a while, right?
That is so weird and when you're 18 and I think even when you're not 18 even when you're older, if you are nervous about marrying someone of the same gender as you because maybe your parents or your mom or someone won't accept it.
I think that's a very bizarre way of Googling it like you would Google how to tell your parents or what happens if I get married and my parents don't approve or can my parents try to annul my gay marriage like these are more specific questions that indicate.
Oh somebody feels this way about another partner and wants to get married, but they have these types of obstacles.
The effectiveness of same -sex marriage is a very is giving more about the legality of yes than emotional.
Now, you know the Reddit or Instagram page that's like siblings or dating?
How do you think people can tell when two people are siblings versus when they're dating?
Like what do you think is the key difference?
Some self -proclaimed experts of siblings are dating.
They say that it's all in the body language.
I mean obviously if they're making out their dating, but when it's not so obvious, there are still these small minor body language indicators that subconsciously people take in.
For example, couples tend to consciously mimic each other.
They mimic each other's facial expressions and gestures.
That's why people say that couples who date for a long time they start looking like each other.
It's not because their facial features look like each other.
It's because their faces are making the same faces constantly.
So those muscle memory sets in.
So for most people they just look similar while siblings they tend to have more similar facial features but not facial expressions.
So they have similar eye colors hair textures couples actually have more similar facial expressions.
So they have like same smile lines.
They have more similar ways that their face sits but it's not the features themselves.
It's just from mimicking each other for prolonged periods of time.
That makes so much sense.
Like that's why I tell you like every time I text an emoji like I will unconsciously make that face when I'm typing.
Yes, he'll like smirk if he's doing a smirking emoji.
He'll smile if he's typing in a smiling emoji.
Yeah, so it's very interesting.
That's how couples behave now, obviously these are not foolproof methods, but you can kind of tell you can make a good educated guess most of the time on whether or not someone appears to be a couple on the street junior and lie do not look like a couple in the elevator footage now keep in mind.
This is right before and right after they get married you're expecting nervous laughter giddiness like they can't keep away from each other or maybe if they haven't told anyone they're just nervous and they're comforting each other.
It's gonna be okay.
It's gonna be okay.
We're gonna get through it together.
There is none of that.
First of all, they barely talk in the elevator.
There is zero physical contact and nothing about their body language shows any semblance of familiarity not even affection.
Did you see the footage?
Yeah, there's like screenshots of it and there's little footage and there's nothing.
Like what were they doing?
So they're just kind of facing each other juniors on his phone for most of the elevator footage and lies kind of scratching the back of his head.
He looks a little uncomfortable.
This is how I look when I'm hanging out with my uncle that I'm not close with so I have some uncles that I'm very familiar with and then the ones that I'm kind of like I just know that we're related.
It's like that behavior of like oh, did you eat?
It's like that it reminds me of when you get stuck in the elevator with a co -worker that works in a completely different department than you.
You know them, but you don't really know them well enough to talk to them.
Like the most interaction you've had is like you just nod at them or you give them like a thin lips smile when they pass by your desk and that's it and now you guys are stuck in the elevator just you two so you know each other more than strangers.
So it feels weird being like nice weather.
That's weird. You guys are closer than that, but you don't know each other well enough to be like, how's it going?
So it's like this. Yeah, you just make these noises and it's just awkward.
It's empty. It's polite and I know that this doesn't sound like the best evidence, but there are a lot of people who have figured out that their partners are cheating on them with another friend because of such subtle body language cues.
So this is another thing that netizens have been pointing out such as when one person leans over to press the button on the elevator most people if you're not familiar with them you lean back so that you give them space, but if someone doesn't lean back, it's almost there's a subconscious familiarity
with their body. Yes, there is no familiarity in this elevator.
You're seeing one of them like yeah, like they're just very polite like moving out of the way for each other.
Just it's very bizarre.
Obviously not a sure -fire rule, but I'm just saying nobody can see them in the elevator and think wow lovebirds.
It just doesn't make sense.
But if you're still not convinced there's more there's CCTV footage of the two of them on a motorbike like a mini motorcycle and they're trying to cross the street.
So they're mid driving.
This is on their way to the marriage license place jr.
Is driving lies in the back.
He's not even holding on to jr.
In fact, the positioning is seems dangerous.
He's holding on to the seat for support instead of leaning or grabbing onto his future husband that he's about to marry in 10 minutes.
Wow now according to CCTV footage from the marriage license registration office.
You can also tell that this is not a symbolic emotional moment for the two of them.
They look like strangers waiting at the DMV together.
The entire process takes about an hour lie is seen occasionally scratching his head.
There is some light conversations, but no giggling no smiling no friendliness that would indicate even friendship at one point jr.
Gives lie a light pat on the shoulder, but that is it.
It said that even that pat feels very cold like they're not very familiar with each other.
Like it's okay, but is that really evidence just to make even more sure authorities go through their messaging apps.
The two of them have little to no interactions on any of their messaging apps for the past six months.
When they do briefly exchange messages, they are always about property transfers.
There's no romantic messages.
There's not even friendly messages.
That is crazy. So everything happened.
You're saying it sounds like everything happened that morning.
There's some kind of conversation that happened that prompted them to get married.
Yes, but what happened like that's crazy now beyond that it gets even wilder in order to get married.
You need to have two witnesses sign your marriage certificate.
Typically, this should be family or friends.
But because nobody knew that junior and lie were getting married.
They had to get two random witnesses from the street one person they found inside of a mall and the other one they found outside the marriage license and they just said hey listen, we are getting married.
We're in love and our friends and family do not approve of our same -sex relationship.
So please could you sign this as a witness both of the witnesses would later tell the judge we agreed because we support same -sex marriage and we felt really bad.
So we wanted to help because their friends and family don't support them.
So we went and we signed but as we're signing we realized how strange this whole situation was.
They didn't seem like a couple at all.
And we were actually shocked at how they were behaving considering how an affectionate they were how underdressed both of them are.
So for example, when people get married especially for the first time even going to the courthouse is this like giddy experience.
And then if you're doing it because your love is so strong that it goes against your whole family.
It's an even more emotionally impactful moment.
Yes, it's us against the world.
But both of them are just wearing slippers like it's not a special day for them.
One of the witnesses later said congrats and neither of them responded.
But this is stranger.
The authorities find another third witness who comes forward.
She's the custodian of the marriage license building.
She says they also asked me to sign.
I refused. It was weird.
She states the whole energy was off.
She didn't feel right about it.
Junior kept asking her to sign repeatedly trying to persuade her even offering her like $100.
Meanwhile, Lai is just standing off to the side silently watching.
She said even if they gave me a million dollars, it wouldn't make me sign as a witness.
I was worried and I felt guilty of something were to happen.
Now additionally Junior doesn't even show up to Lai's funeral.
So how can you say that this is a passionate rushed marriage between two parties in this maybe emotionally fragile state that Lai just lost his grandfather and he wants to marry the love of his life or who he thinks is the love of his life.
It's clearly not that it's very clear that is not what happened in the CCTV footage.
Like I said, neither of them seem excited, but also Lai doesn't look like he's being forced at least not physically.
Also Junior has a girlfriend.
You're kidding me. Yeah.
So why would he marry Lai?
Yes. Girlfriend speak up.
No, people found out that he has a girlfriend and they have not even confirmed nothing.
So why would they get married?
It just doesn't make sense.
And why would he end up dead two hours later?
Lai's mom takes immediate legal action.
She sues Junior and his dad in a wrongful death suit.
She wants to get the marriage completely thrown out.
She states that it's very clear the motive for the marriage and his death immediately after is for the inheritance.
She requests assistance from the courts to make sure Junior is not allowed to leave the country.
She's hired her own forensic experts, including Gao, the original forensic pathologist we were talking about earlier in this story.
She's trying to figure out what the hell happened to her son.
I mean, she just believes there's no way.
This feels like murder to her.
Authorities have also started their own investigation into Lai's death and after interrogating Junior, they hold this press conference where they state there was no foul play involved in Lai's death, no suspicion of criminal activity and no necessity for an arrest.
Junior would be a free man.
He's free to go. What do they think it happened?
They think that he self exited.
What? According to prosecutors, it seems like Junior's supposed version of events is this allegedly Lai confided in Junior.
That he is worried that his grandma and his half siblings, AKA's uncle and aunts would try to go after and make a scene at grandpa Lai's earn -bearing ceremony.
He wanted to get married as an extra layer of added protection.
So Junior is saying, Lai wanted to marry me.
He's saying, hey, I have all this inheritance in just my name.
I'm scared they're going to try to come after me.
I don't know what to do.
But you're the property manager.
You know exactly what you're doing in this realm of law.
So why don't we get married so that you can help protect these assets even more for me?
That's what Junior is allegedly claiming.
Now, surely Junior is going to get something out of it too, but we wouldn't know.
Maybe he's getting a commission.
Maybe he's getting a cut.
Maybe he's getting a property.
I don't know, but I feel like there's better ways to protect your asset than like marrying someone.
That's that feels like more risky.
Don't you think? And also think when you're 18.
I feel like I would marry a friend.
I'd be like, hey friend, I need help because at least you feel like you know your friends.
I mean sure, they could screw you over, but so could the 27 year old, but at least your friends are your friends.
Yeah, so a lot of people are saying it doesn't align with how an 18 year old or anyone would even think now lies, mom Chen also held a press conference where she's completely covered up from head to toe to protect your identity.
Full bucket hat, sunglasses, face mask down to her neck.
Not a single part of her body is showing and she says I can't accept the truth.
I raised him till he was 18 years old as a mother.
I can't accept this.
My son would have never jumped off.
My son would absolutely do no such thing.
Justice must be served for my son.
She argued her son was about to go to college.
He just became a millionaire.
He even received a new motorbike that he was so excited to have.
He requested the license plate to be 9513 to read May 13th, his mom's birthday.
He promised to take his mom on trips on his motorbike, but he just decides to self -exit.
Lies mom is stating it just doesn't make sense.
Junior was one that was insistent on seeing lie that day.
She said he kept saying you got to come we got to talk about it, but lie had to go to the surface for his grandfather.
Why would this be so urgent?
If lie was the one that wanted to do this.
Why was junior pushing so hard to see my son that day?
Enough to the point that he comes to pick him up at 7 in the morning.
Lies mom and her representatives have stated that the motive is crystal clear and that if anybody understands the laws of inheriting property and assets, it's going to be Junior and his dad.
She proposes if it is true that Junior and lie married out of love or by lies request and Junior's not getting the inheritance, then Junior should volunteer to undergo a lie detector test and voluntarily waive his claim to the inheritance as proof of love and as proof of he was just doing lie a favor.
He is no motive to murder lie.
I'm G Marie Laskis.
I'm a journalist. I spent my career helping Americans understand the lives of other Americans coal miners, Gun Shop Clerks staffers in the White House mail room in my new podcast cement City.
I tell the story of an entire town a dying town that you have absolutely no reason to care about, but trust me you will listen to and follow cement City an Odyssey original podcast in partnership with cement City Productions available now for free on the Odyssey app and wherever you get your podcasts.
Junior has since then rejected all suggestions, his father Shaw Senior has spoken out and said thank you for your concern.
We are fully cooperating with the prosecutor to clarify the facts and issues as for the external speculations whether or not they are correct.
We are unable to respond at this time since the matter is now under judicial investigation.
Thank you. The public and media have criticized this statement saying that he has essentially said nothing but beyond pure skepticism of yeah, this is weird.
It doesn't make sense.
There's a lot of other reasons that netizens are untrusting of Junior.
They believe the forensic evidence does not make sense.
So I'm just going to tell you both sides that are circulating out there and I'm no forensic experts.
So please let me know your thoughts in the comments.
According to the police when authorities first arrived at the scene lie only had a minor closed fracture on his right arm.
So they thought which to give you an idea of the extent of that kind of injury people will have minor closed arm fractures if they are standing they fall and they use their outstretched hand to break their fall.
And if they fall at a wrong angle, they might break their arm, but that's that's the level.
We're not talking 10 stories.
So okay, I see so it's like a minor fracture.
Yes, a minor closed fracture of the arm is just inconsistent.
Many people will say with a fall from the 10th floor which would likely result in much more severe injuries.
The second thing is the forensic expert hired by the family to analyze the scene.
Gao he states not only but his body is too close to the building.
He was found on the ground six and a half feet from the building wall, but the second floor has this protruding platform.
Gao believes that lie should be at least 13 feet away from the building about double the distance.
He's actually found from the building if his calculations of projectile motion are accurate, which I don't know how accurate any of this is and if it can be used as a strong point, but nobody is it's just weird.
Gao also mentions the absence of panda eyes on lies face.
So panda eyes are when you have blood pooling in the eye sockets like the blood vessels around the eyes and it looks in America you call them raccoon eyes and it's from bleeding in the skull which would lead to this or just periorbital bruising is what it's known as and it's commonly caused by basal
skull fractures, which is when there's a break in one or more of the bones at the base of the skull.
Now Gao argues it's pretty standard from falls of this height, especially if it's result of a fatal fall and basal skull fractures are one of the most common causes of these panda eyes because now there's bleeding in the skull which is then it pools the blood near the soft tissues around the eyes causing
those now this part I will say doesn't make the most sense to a lot of medicines who are in the medical field.
So if you look it up panda eyes will develop one to three days after the skull fractures by this point lie has been deceased and it is very unlikely that a deceased person will form panda eyes postmortem.
Bruises occur when blood escapes from damaged blood vessels into surrounding tissues and that requires blood circulation.
Your blood must be pumping for bruises to form which stops after death.
Now others have argued that it's still possible for him to have formed these panda eyes around his face before his death.
Another key argument here is there doesn't seem to be extensive blunt force trauma directly to lies head.
So Gao and a lot of people wonder then how is it possible that he suffered from such blows to the head that it killed him?
But you don't see extreme skull fractures or blunt force trauma to the head.
Gao also brings up the point that there was not a lot of blood on the ground where lie had fallen.
He believes that it just doesn't make any sense.
I mean considering how far he fell but even stranger Gao argues is the fact that not only was there a strange lack of blood but the grass beneath lies face had died.
The rest of the grass where his body is landed the grass is fine to go that indicates or rather suggests that perhaps lie had been poison prior to his fall or being placed there.
Perhaps some of that poison had slipped out of his mouth.
Maybe he had vomited causing the grass to die.
He says he was laying on that grass for less than 10 minutes before being found but after his body was moved the patch of grass wilted.
You know that grass is very strong don't you?
How could it wilt? He was on the grass for less than 10 minutes.
But if there's throw up, you know, wouldn't you be able to identify that very easily?
But he's saying the police didn't care.
So they just picked him up took him to the hospital didn't really investigate the scene.
So we wouldn't know if there was throw up or not really.
Okay, he also points out the fact that other grass where the rest of lies body had fallen all perfectly healthy after they removed his body only the part near his head was wilted.
He also argues that there should be some slight indentation markings around the ground where life fell because the impact of him hitting the ground should have made some sort of marking on the soil but there was none.
So of course, I mean that could heavily depend on soil type grass thickness moisture content on whether or not there should be indents caused by lies supposed fall, but he also claims that he found suspicious needle markings in lies right arm.
Wait, so he's arguing that lie didn't jump out the window.
He's arguing that lie was probably killed before his body was either thrown out the window or placed on the ground to make it look like he jumped.
But if he was thrown out the window there will still be like you know fractures and he thinks that he was thrown out a lower floor window.
Yeah, there's a lot going on.
So the theories are not I would say in this case no theory is clean -cut every theory takes a little bit of mental cartwheels to be like I guess I could see that I guess I could see that but nothing is like oh that sounds really plausible.
It's just very strange.
So ultimately Gauss speculation is mainly due to the presence of what he believes are suspicious needle marks on lies right hand that lie might have been killed before hand with some sort of poison.
He also points to bruising on lies right hand.
He thinks the bruise might have been caused prior to his death which maybe he was trying to fight back.
Maybe it's a defensive wound then he's thrown not from the 10th floor but possibly the third floor of the building like why why would someone take him to a lower floor if he's already deceased Gauss suggest that if someone threw him from a higher floor, he would have sustained way more serious injuries
the more serious injuries are the more seriously police take a case.
That's what he argues.
But if someone has minor injuries their deceased, there's a clear quote reasonable explanation to what happened to them.
Then it's not murder.
They can quickly close the case is what he's arguing.
So it's likely that he was thrown from a lower floor to quickly close the case and move on.
That is what Gauss was arguing.
That's a very bizarre.
Yeah, I will say the forensic evidence on this case is not as strong as the logical evidence of it just doesn't make sense that he got married and then two hours later he died.
Yeah, I mean the forensic evidence is kind of like I can see both sides.
Yeah, and clearly junior is suspicious like he the way he's acting afterwards.
Yeah, everything is so why not just interrogate that guy rather than, you know, like, I don't know.
It's just yeah, it's a little weird.
Yeah, also does point out that our inconsistencies in juniors behavior.
He argues. It's not normal.
No matter how you try to spin it.
It's weird. So first of all, he acted to authorities as if he did not know lie.
He's just standing there off to the side watching.
Yeah, argues this man was the man.
He had just married but he pretended not to know him.
He didn't say anything.
Then later when lie is taken to the hospital and labeled a John Doe.
He still does not come forward to identify the body.
And if you know anything about Taiwan and a lot of different cultures even in America, there is this symbolic ness of putting someone to rest.
Like you don't just leave someone unidentified in the morgue.
It's so traumatic for loved ones.
Yeah, so okay. He doesn't want to identify it because he doesn't want to be associated by this.
Yes, right. Like they will very quickly find out boom you guys got married.
So he want to hide that.
Mm -hmm as long as possible.
Yes. Why do would you want to hide something unless there's something suspicious?
But then some of the other people like because there's so many theories floating around but some people say even that is weird because he's hiding it now.
But you can't hide it when he tries to get the inheritance.
Right, right, right.
I think he maybe just want the body to be cremated cremated or something is what a lot of people think.
Yeah. It's just so weird.
Also later on Junior mentions to the prosecutors that he saw footprints on the balcony railing which suggests that life fell from the balcony or jumped but at the same time remember how he mentioned he went searching floor to floor of the apartment building looking for lie, but if you saw footprints
enough to notice them enough for it to be like wait the balcony door is open.
He's missing. I saw footprints on the balcony.
Why would you not think to go to the ground floor first?
Why would you go floor to floor searching when that feels a little more plausible?
Like if you didn't notice that's one thing but if you notice and you're still like let me go to the ninth floor eighth floor seventh floor one that is in rights Junior is definitely sus but also why did he make it so obvious that after just two hours of registering the marriage but others argue well
maybe it's not done because technically if you did it he might get away with it.
They said he's the only one that was there.
There's no security footage at least as of right now that they've seen which means there's nobody to verify or dispute his version of events.
Gao has urged the prosecutors to run toxicology reports on lie to look for the presence of any sort of toxins that might have been administered prior to his death.
His best bet Gao says is potassium chloride a chemical compound that's most commonly used in fertilizers in large doses.
It can lead to excess potassium in the blood causing cardiac arrest especially when administered intravenously.
So through like a needle in high concentrations.
Gall starts arguing that his new belief is that lie might have been lured to a certain location in the building where he is restrained from behind because he believes there are ligature marks around lies neck.
So that would explain those markings then they're trying to restrain him.
He receives injuries to his neck and his hand the bruising on his right hand once he's rendered unconscious.
He is pumped full of potassium chloride explaining the needle markings causing cardiac arrest and eventual death.
Then he's thrown from the third floor of the building.
So third floor is oddly specific.
Gall reveals. Well junior allegedly wouldn't want all of this in his apartment the needle the maybe there's blood.
Maybe there could be anything you just never know.
He's actually the real estate broker for an empty third floor unit in that same building.
So he has full access of a third floor unit that nobody lives in right now.
That's open for showings.
Okay. That seems to be gals biggest theory but the investigators did search the third floor and they found no evidence of any sort of wrongdoing in that unit.
Additionally third floor residents shared their CCTV footage.
So their doorbell cameras if you will and nobody left or entered the third floor unit that day since then prosecutors have come out to state that the investigation teams have obtained CCTV footage from around the fall.
I don't think that they have the fall itself but from public roads residential areas convenient stores that might have a better timeline of things and that footage is currently being investigated.
They state they ran thorough and complete fingerprint footprint DNAs on the 10th floor balcony and they found evidence that lie must have been physically present on the 10th floor balcony.
They state not just on the 10th floor, but you know how there's a railing and there's this tiny maybe two -inch ledge outside of the railing.
It's a little bit of the floor extends like the floor of the balcony does not just cut off where the railing cuts off.
So it extends maybe about two inches.
It's not space that nobody would ever go on to because you're just going to fall.
Yeah, but there's this lies DNA on that side.
So he was outside of the what rally so the prosecutors allege.
I mean, why would he be outside unless he wanted to be outside?
It's really hard to forcibly get someone to that point unless maybe you're talking gunpoint.
Like how would you convince someone to get on that side of the railing because they would fight with everything.
They would run down the stairs.
They would do other things.
Are you holding them at gunpoint?
Like they're that's what they're arguing.
Now, this is their argument.
By the way, I'm not here to convince you of one thing or the other.
They also argue that there's actually a bit more of the forensic evidence.
They state that lie actually had multiple fractures not just one on his arm, but he had multiple rib fractures.
They were according to his autopsy reports his lungs heart spleen and liver were fractured multiple organs had ruptured and there was bleeding in the chest and abdominal cavities as well as extensive internal bleeding.
The autopsy the prosecutors have recently released shows that lie suffered from intercranial hemorrhaging or internal bleeding in the skull, which would not commonly cause panda eyes to even begin with.
They also state that the forensic reports from the prosecutor's office show that the injuries are incredibly consistent from a fall from that height.
He might look okay externally.
So they state that many of lies injuries that gal find suspicious are easily explainable.
The injuries on the roof of his mouth and his upper lip.
So gal was like harping on this.
They state he had a tube inserted into his mouth in the hospital in an effort to save his life.
So of course, you're going to get some sort of markings in the mouth.
It's not a pleasant procedure.
Likewise, the suspicious needle markings on his right hand.
Those are from the hospital when they try to administer fluids in IV.
The strange markings on his back gal was constantly bringing this up.
They argue well, there were trees that he likely would have collided with before hitting the ground.
Those markings look consistent with branches.
And as for their lack of indentation in the ground, it is their belief that he hit the second floor platform because there's like a ledge sticking out of the second floor.
He hit that from the 10th floor to the second floor hit the platform his body bounced onto the trees right next to it.
And then fell through the branches which would explain some of these scratch markings and why there's not a strong indentation because something cushioned his fall twice.
Now it has been argued that they never actually tested that they never found evidence that he hit the second floor platform.
They just said that's what makes sense to us.
So it does seem like both sides are just like this is what makes sense to us.
So Gao is the mother's attorney.
Yes, he's arguing that the son has been poisoned.
And then thrown out of third floor.
Yes. And the prosecutor you're saying?
Yes. Are saying that no everything indicated that he jumped out from 10th floor.
Yes. I'll just tell you the outcomes of what could happen if they get married and then lie decides to self -exit then junior would be entitled to the full inheritance as his spouse even if they've been married for two hours.
Okay. Now if it's proven that lie did not self -exit that someone else was the cause of his fall then junior could get the whole inheritance taken away because this is motive.
You married him for the money and they just killed him.
And then you got to go to prison.
Yeah, these are the outcomes of both sides.
So the prosecutor is arguing the day of the death they investigated juniors apartment.
There was no signs of a struggle or any foul play.
Everything was in order.
Furthermore, they claim to have done a full investigation into juniors body.
There were no signs of scratches or struggle on junior.
Nothing. They checked DNA from underneath both parties fingernails.
No DNA. So those scratches on lies body would not have been from junior as what they argue.
They stated likely from tree branches.
They state it is in their professional belief that there was no physical altercation between the two that day the supposed strangulation marks.
The authorities argue there were no fractures bleeding or bruising on lies neck.
The esophagus shows no abnormalities.
Everything is in order.
They argue the only thing that could have maybe caused the injuries to his neck was that he wore a neck brace while they were trying to save his life in the medical field life -saving measures are quite aggressive.
So there are a lot of injuries that happen when someone's life is trying to be saved, right?
Like when they're trying to do CPR, you could break a rib, like it's it's really intense.
Yeah, so they're saying it's the neck brace.
It's the tube that was shoved down his throat.
It was the IVs that they're just rushing and stabbing into his arm to try and save him.
Like these are what these injuries are from which then should sound like a shut -and -done case, right?
Like why are we talking about it?
But there's more they say they ran blood tests.
There's no substances detected to the point of poisoning or any kind.
They stated that they tested for thousands of common toxic substances.
Nothing. No potassium chloride overdose.
But Gal had argued that potassium chloride could be difficult to detect through postmortem blood tests alone.
So as for the lack of blood the prosecutors argue it's just science that a fall from that height there might not be external bleeding.
Internal bleeding is actually quite common.
External bleeding can vary depending on factors like how the person lands the surface they land on.
It's possible for there to be little to no visible external bleeding even in fatal falls.
The skin can sometimes remain surprisingly intact while the bones and internal organs suffered catastrophic damage.
The fact that the grass is dead where he fell will investigators state that they spoke with neighbors who confirm that patch of grass has always been dead.
Maybe the dogs pee on it a lot.
They also tested the grass and it showed that there were no pesticides or any type of harmful chemicals in the grass.
Ultimately, they believe all signs point to a self -exit by jumping.
They also make a pointed comment directed at Gauss stating that individuals should avoid subjective speculation and assumptions about the circumstances in order to allow the judicial process to proceed impartially.
To which Gauss responded, I had no intention to interrupt the prosecutor's direction of investigation, but now shouldn't authorities be focusing on finding new evidence?
Side note, Gauss is one of the top forensic pathologists in Taiwan.
He's performed over 5000 autopsies and conducted over 10 ,000 forensic examinations.
He's also known to be quite outspoken and sometimes he lands in controversies.
He's also once said, I'm not that great, but I'm the best in Taiwan.
I'm the top forensic pathologist in Taiwan, which again, why are we still talking about it?
The prosecutors have debunked most of Gauss claims, right?
Not that easy because it's been stated that the legal team lies mom is hired.
They went through the hospital reports as well as pictures taken in the ER of lie.
There is nothing in the back of his right hand.
So there's tubes and IVs attached to his left hand.
Nothing in the right hand, which later becomes another argument when prosecutors release footage from the ER where it shows the nurse and doctor moving to the right hand to administer more fluids and injections, which means yes, there should be needle markings on his right hand.
But then lies lawyers have fought back again and stated when you look at the injuries on the right hand and left hand, they don't have the same injuries.
So why would it be so different if it's the hospital doing the same thing on both sides?
I don't even know. Who did yeah?
Gao has since requested a second autopsy to be done which would hopefully reveal further information and clarify a lot of questions.
He's also stated based on the principle of speaking through the autopsy and my 40 years of forensic experience.
I have made the most rigorous judgments and inferences.
This is not a baseless speculation or rumor.
However, if there are differing opinions, I welcome constructive feedback and discussion.
I do not intend to interfere with the direction of the police investigation and the evidence speaks for itself.
Ultimately, the goal is to find the truth and resolve the matter as quickly as possible.
No? So the public is just left very confused after all this back and forth medical arguments between Gao and the prosecutors.
I will say when it comes to the forensic evidence, it's very confusing, but the logical evidence still stands.
The marriage is weird.
The fact that he died two hours after the marriage is very weird.
The fact that Junior is the son of grandpa lies primary property manager also weird.
All of this is weird.
Now, what really angers the public is the prosecutors give Chen lies mom and her legal team a cutoff.
They say you need to submit all evidence that this was not a self -exit within the next month.
That made people very angry because the whole thing feels rushed.
The fact that he was rushed to the morgue without being identified the fact that lies mom has to quickly submit the evidence.
It's like they're rushing to hide something or because they're lazy.
It doesn't make sense.
Even if justice takes a while, isn't it worth pursuing?
Now, I do want to mention, yes, Gao has his own bias.
He's been hired by lies mom to prove that this was not a self -exit.
So all of his is going to be seen from that lens.
But the prosecutors also have a bias because the way they handle the case initially is horrendous.
It's horrendous. Now turns out if this case is a murder and that's how they handled it, this would be a huge scandal on them.
Because think about it.
They rushed the investigation.
They're like, okay, just bring him to the hospital.
He's a John Doe. Let's not investigate.
Let's not tape off the crime scene.
Let's do nothing and just move about our day and then it turns out to be a murder.
Got it. Yep, I see.
Also people are saying I don't think that this case would have been big if the victim was not worth 15 and a half million dollars.
So what does that say for all the other residents of Taiwan because the police didn't know he was a millionaire.
They treat. They look at him.
John Doe created him.
That's it. Shut and done.
Would they have behaved differently had they known he was worth 15 and a half million and even the fact that they're like, well, we found nothing in Junior's apartment.
We searched the third floor Junior and his family were freely allowed to roam the entire building for the most of the day until it was analyzed.
So again, you can't really say there was nothing because it wasn't taped off.
Police didn't even care to figure out if there was foul play until lies mom kept calling asking them to do something.
So the public lashes out at the prosecutors and they state it seems like you've been bribed like it seems like you're going to get money or something because it doesn't make sense.
It feels like you're almost speaking on behalf of Junior.
It sounds like it's lies mom's legal team and Junior's legal team.
They're saying how can you reject all of the logical evidence?
There's clearly more to the story.
They barely even talk about it.
They barely bring up the marriage.
They're just like well the forensic evidence this and that and people are like, but that's not the only thing we're talking about here.
So now there are the theories theory.
Number one is that lie is that way that's all we have on the case.
That's all we have right now.
There is a civil suit that's going on and I'm going to get into it.
But first I want to tell you the theories because I want to see which theory that you think is the most plausible theory number one is that junior convinces lie to marry him somehow maybe trying to use his knowledge over property laws.
Maybe he even scares him saying things like you and your mom are about to lose everything your family.
The aunts and uncles are going to come at you full force.
But if you marry someone I can help protect it because it's not just your signature that's needed to sign everything over my signature needs because it's communal property.
Now. It's our married property.
So I'm going to help you guys.
This is the only way that it's going to stay within you and this is the only way I make money because you know, I manage your properties.
That's how I make a living.
You see, that's what I was thinking too.
Because when he was asked, this is what he said the first thing he said the son came to me wanting me to marry him so that he can be protected from the aunts and uncle, which for someone who's 18 barely knows the law barely knows about marriage and you know, like he's googling about it.
I think that's his thoughts and he just flipped the narrative onto the son, right?
And then he probably brought it up to the son.
So then he's like, okay, the 18 year old is thinking that makes sense.
He googles the effectiveness of same -sex marriage because all he's looking is to protect him and his mom.
And also, let's say if the son is the one that proposed this plan to him.
He's 26. He's in the legal field.
He knows all about the laws.
If you are a professional like real estate agent, when is the last time you agree to marry someone for what reasons?
Let's say his narrative is true.
He then obviously did it for his own specific reasons.
Why would you marry a client?
That's crazy to think about.
An immigration attorney getting into a fake marriage to get someone a green card.
It's like, this doesn't make sense.
Yes. So there's obviously more in it than just to help someone.
So that's the first theory.
He convinces him with this type of messaging and then kills him.
It's the theory, right?
The second theory is just the same overall arching theme of the first theory, but with an added benefit because maybe people are like, well, why would Lai listen to that?
Like it sounds so dumb that Lai wouldn't even listen.
Well, Junior also gains to benefit.
So Junior's dad, the main property manager, also has a ton of properties.
He has this weird estate role that the first one married gets to keep the 10th floor condo in this apartment building.
Junior's dad? Yeah.
This is very bizarre.
Said that if whoever gets married by my kids get to keep this condo.
Yes. So Junior say, let me marry you.
Yeah. So maybe I don't think Junior genuinely believes it.
It seems like the theory is Junior is convincing Lai.
Hey, this is what I get because I'm not trying to take your money.
I just want this 10th floor condo and my dad said the first person to get married out of his sons is the one that gets this condo.
That might make Lai more open to it because otherwise it's like you're suspicious of people.
Why would you want to marry me and now that we're married, you have a right to the money.
But then Junior's like, no, that's not what I want.
I just want this condo and I just need to get married and look I have a girlfriend.
That's the theory. And then of course with this theory, it's also murder.
Right? Now there is a self -exit theory.
So this would be the third theory.
I would say this is the smaller theory.
The first spin -off of the self -exit theory is that perhaps Lai is not fond of his whole family, because when you're 18, you might have these very emotional responses to all of these things.
Like these are not normal things that happen in a family and he might feel resentment, not just towards Grandpa Lai, his father, but perhaps his mom and perhaps everybody.
So he knows that if he were to pass away and self -exit because it seems like some people are arguing there has been a lot going on in his life.
His grandpa passed away.
His whole family hates him.
He's kind of alone just with his mom.
Also his mom might get deported.
That's a whole thing we're going to get into.
There's a whole thing with the mom.
Okay, everyone in his family hates him.
He just got rejected by his female classmates.
Perhaps 18 year -old Lai did want to self -exit and for whatever reason, he didn't want his mom to have the money.
So he married someone and then self -exits.
I don't particularly believe this theory because it's very spiteful.
First of all, and there's nothing to indicate that he had a bad relationship with his mother.
And second of all, I feel like you would give it to a friend then.
You would not give it to just some random person.
Now the third part of this self -exit theory is that perhaps he wanted to self -exit, but he wanted his mom to have the money and he was maybe scared that if he self -exited, the inheritance is up for debate.
Does it go to the aunts?
Does it go to the grandma Lai?
Who has it? So he gives it to the property manager who has been handling the family estate for the past 20 years and maybe Junior has promised, I'm going to give it to your mom, but this again doesn't make sense because Junior would have just come out and said that when he's in the middle of a murder
investigation. Yeah, so it just seems unlikely that he self exited.
There's just no, I mean, you're 18, you inherit fifteen and a half million dollars, you get into a good college.
Why would you self exit?
It just, he seems very happy.
People said he was a very happy, good, lucky person.
Again. I know it's not just about people being smiling, but it just doesn't make sense.
People are saying it just doesn't make sense.
But if people don't believe that he self exited and that this isn't some sort of freak accident, then in their theories, it must be murder.
But if that's the case, how would Junior have done it?
Did he drug him? Did he somehow threaten him to go over the railing?
I mean, how did he drug him in and not show up on toxicology reports?
How would he threaten him to go over that railing?
What would be the answer?
There's just no answers right now.
And it's probably because it's not just about figuring out what happened to lie.
There's also a very big question of who gets the fifteen and a half million dollars.
Technically, even though Junior and Lie were only married for two hours, if the marriage is validity is not thrown out, then yes, Junior is entitled to inherit fifteen million dollars.
Technically, legally speaking, given their status as newlywed couples, even if it's just two hours.
So does that mean that Junior will be getting fifteen and a half million dollars?
Not exactly. In Taiwan, the law is that you have to be physically present with two witnesses to get married, but additionally, marriage requires true intention to marry.
That seems like it would be very hard to prove here in this case.
But as for maybe the next person that would receive the inheritance, if it's not the spouse, it usually goes to children.
Lie doesn't have children, so then it goes back to the parents.
So it would just be Chen, the mom, but that's tricky too.
So there's a law in Taiwan that reads, quote, the total amount of the estate any of the people of the mainland area, China, may inherit, shall not exceed sixty five thousand dollars.
So if you're Chinese national, you cannot inherit a Taiwanese person's inheritance over sixty five thousand dollars.
Oh, the mother is not Taiwanese.
She's from China. There's a cap sixty five thousand dollars out of the fifteen and a half million.
But now her attorneys have come forward to state.
Actually, it's very tricky.
So when she first moved to Taiwan to marry Sam, the second son, she voluntarily gave up her household registration in China.
But she wasn't able to get a Taiwanese ID card or a Taiwan household registration.
So technically, she's stateless.
She had Taiwanese residency because lie her son is Taiwanese.
But once he turns 18, she doesn't have that anymore.
Okay, what does that mean?
So she's technically has no legal right to stay in Taiwan once he turned 18.
Now it said before grandpa lie passed, he tried to get her Taiwanese residency by having her apply for it.
But she was rejected because apparently she had some theft charges and the adultery charge.
She was charged for that sort of prison time.
So they're like, we don't want you as a resident because you're weird.
So then she was rejected from it.
The only way she would get it is if grandpa lied married her.
But he's still technically married to grandma lie.
Remember, they never actually divorced.
So he went to grandma lie and was like you need to divorce me so that I can marry Chen before she has to leave.
And it's a whole thing and grandma lie had to file a restraining order against him because apparently he got very mad and threatened to shoot and stab her which means technically she might be a potential legal loophole in this where the limit does not apply to her because she's not a Chinese national.
She's technically stateless.
Okay, so what's going on right now?
She needs to gain a Taiwanese residency within the next three years in order to inherit it if Junior is not viable for the inheritance.
Okay, so they're fighting right now.
Yes, but if she doesn't get that Taiwanese residency in the next three years, it's possible that the inheritance may not go to her either.
Okay. So if it doesn't go to him, so no Junior, no mother, who does it go to?
We don't know but new people have joined this fight.
Grandma lie and grandpa lies children.
So his half -siblings slash aunts and uncles have joined the mix as well after lies death.
They state that they cannot accept this estate transfer.
They question the fairness of it all stating that even if lie we're still alive all of this would just benefit one person and one person only grandma lie says the mistress the adulterer Chen the rest of the lie family have come out with statements since all of this has happened and they write we're
the four children of the lie family.
Although we are shocked by recent events.
We have refrained from making any statements or responses due to the lack of interaction between our lie family matriarch grandma lie and Chen lies mother.
However, we saw in the news that lies legal team claimed that his mother currently holds the status of quote stateless and they are actively helping her apply for an ID card in Taiwan.
But our lie family emotions are stirred.
Once again, this has reignited the deepest pain that has affected our family for years.
The claim that lies mother is stateless is unfounded.
She has lived in Taiwan for over 20 years and has been issued a Taiwanese ID card twice but both times they were cancelled.
They go on to allege in the letter that lies mom should not be allowed to be a Taiwanese resident because so many times prior she had applied and not received it.
So why would she suddenly get it now they state she has records like adultery and theft on her record.
They also state that her becoming stateless was a result of her own actions.
They state she decided to give up her Chinese household residency.
Nobody forced her to do that.
It's not something that the Taiwanese people needed to rally around is what they argue.
They say that she asked for this basically is what they're saying.
They alleged that Chen refused to leave Taiwan refused to leave the family alone quote.
She was likely coveting the substantial properties of our family.
They continue the lie family assets were accumulated by the lie family matriarch and patriarch for over 30 years of hard work and should rightfully belong to the lie family matriarch.
The lie high school students 15 and a half million dollars in assets were all improperly gifted improperly gifted.
What does that mean?
They're saying it's not grandpa's choice.
It's grandpa and grandma's choice.
And because grandma is still alive.
So when you have two spouses, I see it goes to your spouse.
It doesn't go to whoever you wanted to write unless like both parties.
I guess sign off on it is what they're saying right but grandpa just decided to give it to but he doesn't have full control.
They're saying that's not all of his money.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So okay that also means the junior and senior they're the one that help grandpa managing these things right transfer the ownership.
So they know grandma's in the picture too.
It's very tricky. They write in the letter recently lies legal team has claimed in the media that his mother is stateless and thus not subject to the inheritance limit of $65 ,000 under article 67 section one, according to the logic of that legal team.
If a Chinese person marries a Taiwanese and the Taiwanese spouse dies before the Chinese spouse obtains an ID card does the Chinese spouses voluntary renouncement of their Chinese nationality and subsequent statelessness exempt them from the two million dollar inheritance limit under the act is that even
reasonable? What was the original purpose of the provision then?
How many Chinese spouses might exploit this legal loophole in the future?
Currently their legal team is publicly pushing for lies mother to obtain Taiwanese citizenship aiming to garner sympathy through media and public opinion and to pressure the government to issue a Taiwanese ID card.
However during her 20 years in Taiwan apart from engaging an affair with her father -in -law giving birth to a child seizing millions and assets and multiple theft cases.
Has she made any positive contributions to the lie family or Taiwan?
This is their letter.
It's very aggressive.
They continue for the past 20 years lies mother has continuously harmed the lie family matriarch expelling her from her own home engaging and incest and seizing the majority of the family's wealth as an incestuous mistress.
She tore our family apart and gave birth to a son to take away countless inheritances.
Now with her son deceased she still seeks to inherit all the estate obtain an ID card and continue living in lavish lifestyle in Taiwan enjoying millions in real estate.
How can the lie family matriarch endure all of this?
It's very tricky. I will say netizens are divided for this a lot of people think that I mean that was so long ago.
That was 20 years ago.
She raised her son and her son was mysteriously allegedly killed.
Right it come on now.
Other people think I mean, I think this is like a separate thing of they're just fighting for who gets the money but the focus here is what happened to lie like who whose is is he murder if he is then we need justice for that, right?
But the problem is a lot of netizens have been pointing out his death is the secondary issue.
It seems like this inheritance issue is becoming bigger than his actual death and netizens are really saddened by this whole thing and even for all of their arguments his death is just another argument.
So junior of course is arguing that it was self exit why because it benefits his shot at the inheritance.
Everyone has their own beneficial death story, right?
So they may hire attorney to achieve their best interest.
Yes, but I will say his death is very suspicious though, but it's just kind of shitty that the inheritance seems to be the number one priority.
It seems like okay.
This is our number one priority and his death whichever way benefits this party or this party seems to be what they're going for in a sense in a way is how netizens feel.
It just feels kind of icky.
It sucks that you can trust the official to to solve it.
Yes, because then that would be the answer to you know, and the inheritance could follow after that.
So you thought it was just those three parties junior the mom and the rest of the lie family, but you have another party that could be viable for the inheritance.
So before Grandpa lie second son had passed he had given everything to the second son.
Okay, because if he gives everything to the second son, then it seems like Chen and lie will benefit.
Because Chen and the second son are legally married.
Yes, so she would have right to the funds.
But when the second son passed away, he moved it to lie the grandson because he cannot give it to Chen likely because there is a limit to the inheritance and she's a Chinese national.
Yes, it goes to little lie, right?
But the problem is he had given it to the second son.
Okay, and they're trying to argue that him giving it to the second son Grandma lie would have been okay with but him giving it to little lie Grandma is not okay with so that means if Grandma lie also approves of the inheritance going to the second son that means it would be going to his original daughter
his first daughter.
That's actually his flesh and blood with the Indonesian wife.
When he dies that money would be inherited by his offspring and the only offspring that he has is not lie because lie is Grandpa lie son.
It's his daughter with the Indonesian wife.
Okay, what does that mean exactly?
That means for example Grandpa and Grandma if they both had consented to giving the full 15 million dollars to their second son second son dies, right now Grandpa is trying to give it to little lie but they're saying Grandma never approved of that which means the inheritance would be stuck with the second
son which means after he dies if you look at general inheritance laws because he did not have a will it would go to his offspring his only offspring is the daughter with the Indonesian woman.
Also, he has another granddaughter or remember so the second son he brought in the Indonesian woman.
They had a daughter together and then she left then he brought in Chen.
They didn't have kids together.
Yeah. So where is the granddaughter?
It seems like she might come forward to take a stake in this.
We don't know because she's also kind of following the laws.
She could also be the next yes.
So there's like so many ways that a bunch of attorneys could argue this whole inheritance law some could say no the inheritance is stuck with the second son when he died because it seems like Grandma didn't oppose that inheritance transfer.
So if that's the case and it would be going to his offspring automatically, which is the daughter from his first marriage.
I mean this is just so sad.
I feel like just to hear this right now.
Imagine when lie was alive.
I'm sure this is all ongoing ever since the grandpa passed.
Like this is probably going on like behind the scenes very aggressively and one that is in rights and I think they mean this with as most respect for lies possible, but it's just the stark reality of things a child who never asked for this but their life caused a stir from birth to death.
It's like lie never wanted this.
He probably just wanted a normal family.
And now his aunts and uncles hate him for what for existing for something his parents did.
It's not even something he did.
There is a battle going on in the civil courts right now, which interestingly Junior has shown up every single day to court that he has been summoned across months even in the winter months when it's pretty cold in the same blue shirt.
It's not even a good -looking shirt, but there are allegations that he ritually altered the shirt like he basically bewitched the shirt for good luck.
It's very interesting.
So there's a lot of different aspects of this whole case that people are harping on.
He also told the judge that he cannot even describe in words his relationship with lie and just a reminder Junior has not been charged with lies death.
He is therefore innocent till proven guilty.
He has been prosecuted through the civil courts for forgery of their fake marriage, which would likely mean that his marriage to lie has been deemed invalid and it would likely mean that he's not going to be getting the inheritance.
But who knows? It seems like they might be putting up a fight.
It is a fake marriage.
They said forgery. It seems like it's mainly the law's focus on the witnesses that they asked.
Okay, good. Yeah, which could be argued that the witnesses then it wouldn't be a legitimate marriage certificate because you do need two witnesses.
Yeah, so it's just a little bit confusing.
It's not dead set in stone.
It seems from what I can find online that like no, you're not getting the money.
Yeah, it seems like for the next few years, it's going to be very messy.
Even if Junior is out of the picture, it's still a matter of getting down to the nitty -gritty of what actually happened to lie and also who's going to get the money and you said the his body is frozen.
Yeah, they're not cremating or burying him because there could be forensic evidence.
So they're just keeping him in the morgue for the past year in limbo.
Because of this and because yeah, 15 and a half million dollars is on the line.
Yeah, some people feel sympathy for either the family or the mom.
Most people I would just say feel sympathy for lie because he really is just an innocent kid and all of this.
Like he just turned 18.
He didn't ask for any of this.
He didn't do anything wrong.
He might have been killed because of it and now everyone is still just fighting over the money.
What are your thoughts on this case?
What do you think actually happened and who do you think deserves the money?
Let me know in the comments.
Please stay safe and I will see you in the next one.
