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Hi, I'm Alexa Ray Korea, and this is the Game Maker's Notebook podcast. podcast. Today, I got to interview Nhi Do, the voice of Watcher and Blue in my game of the year from last year, 1000 Times Resist. I know I say this a lot, but I really don't want to spoil this interview.
If you can, before you watch this, go back and watch my interview with Remy and Pinky, the narrative designer and creative director, and then come back and watch this.
We unpack the game a little bit more, talk about Nhi's theater background, her musical background, and how she ended up in her first game ever with 1000 Times Resist. Please enjoy.
Welcome to The Game Maker's Notebook, a podcast featuring a series of in -depth one -on -one conversations between game makers providing a thoughtful, intimate perspective on the business and craft of interactive entertainment.
The Game Maker's Notebook is presented by the Academy of Interactive Arts and Sciences, a member -driven organization dedicated to the recognition and advancement of interactive entertainment.
Hi. Hi. Hi. Okay. I'm so excited to finally talk to you about A Thousand Times Resist. It was my game of the year last year.
I'm kind of obsessed.
Sorry to everyone listening.
I'm definitely going to be a little bit of a fangirl today, so sorry taking you along for the ride.
So first question, the one I love to ask people first, how did you get here?
What is your background?
Yes. So I'm a bit of a nerd and I watched a couple of videos already that you you interviewed so I know you talk about theater kids and I I also am a theater kid I know I know so I started out in theater like you know school theater like Artful Dodger and Oliver Twist and little things like that and Oliver Twist yeah but it's like a super abridged children's version so it's like not the story at all it's very dark story it is so I mean I did those and English English is my second language.
OK. So I didn't actually speak English in a very comprehensive, fluent way until like about eight or nine.
Oh, wow. So when I did theater, it was amazing.
I felt like people understood me for the first time.
And there wasn't like the pressure of being wrong.
Yeah. Because I'm not wrong.
The character got it wrong.
Not me. You know what I mean?
And also like there's a script.
So I was able to practice the words over and over again.
And while sometimes, you know, when you speak another language, the time that you receive the information and process and try to respond.
So there is always like the pressure, like I'm calculating.
They're staring at me.
I'm doing something wrong.
So that's how I got started.
And then obviously musical theater.
And actually, it's so funny.
I had a teacher and he was the one who was doing musical theater and he was like the music teacher.
and he singled me out because i was so shy i was like painfully shy i don't believe that i was like you know if they called on me they were like you know something simple like what's two plus two for as an example i would not they're like okay me and i go turn beat red it just made like you want to die i wish i wish i had the camera like i know all of you are listening on your your face as you're doing this because your facial expressions are so good right now so he kind of like took me aside and he was like you better audition and I was so scared of upsetting my teacher right you know you're
like 12 you're 11 12 you're like okay I don't want to disappoint and so I ended up doing the musical and it was so much fun and it's called Hotel Hollywood and as an adult I realized he probably made it up you mean like he wrote it he wrote it it like it so what he did was he kind of like a jukebox musical where he grabbed like all these songs like little snippets from like well -known musicals and like combine them all i know because i was like this is the best musical it has all the hits but as an adult i realized he probably just made it up for us that's it okay that's a level of dedication though
that's pretty sweet oh it's incredible i mean yeah and he played the piano and so you know obviously he was just my image of him is just like, just jumping on the keyboards and jamming it out.
And yeah. And I think that that was kind of what singed it.
And you were hooked.
You did this jukebox musical and you were like, I'm in.
Yeah. I'm in. Done.
So from there as a kid, did you take like, did you take professional acting lessons or did you just kind of keep doing theater?
Like, what was that trajectory like for you?
Yeah. So I did like obviously theater in school.
And then did improv i did yeah so i was in a competitive improv group competitive what's competitive improv isn't what what what is what is that i know it sounds so intense it sounds very intense it is well there's teams and they have different categories and like they they have like formed games it's called the canadian improv games yeah why don't we don't we never get anything cool cig IG, look it up.
For real? Oh, there's...
I didn't even see these when I walked in.
Boom, boom, boom. Competitive improv.
Yeah, and so that was just incredible to kind of try something completely different.
And so it's kind of like sketch comedy in a short amount of time.
And they grab, in the competition, they grab audiences' recommendations and you have to do the scene in 30 seconds.
Oh my God. Yeah. Do you like improv?
I love improv. It's scary, but I love it.
do you like it which do you prefer improv or like having like that script structure in front of you like which feels more natural to you can I be greedy and want both yes you can absolutely okay yes you can I think like that's why for voiceover yeah it can be really freeing like in animation because you can have the scripted words and then they'll just be like and now improv or like okay well we have a new character just go for it like what do you think like just hit me and I think that is incredible because sometimes magic happens like even in film and television right you know when you watch
your favorite movie you're like I love that scene that wasn't written that just happened yeah absolutely um one of your I have to talk about this I mentioned this when we sat down you were in the Canadian premiere of Heather's the musical yes how did you get where did how did you get there oh my gosh I mean I got to play Heather Duke yes who is you know Shannon Doherty it's like the best Heather and it was yeah it was just like you know you did theater so at that point in Vancouver I was doing film and television but then also theater as well and so I auditioned and got the part and I just had
the ultimate blast do you with singing did you do any like did you train for that or is that something that just sort of like came naturally to you I used to be in a choir and again competitive it sounds really like so much competition were you in a competitive choir yes oh my god not like show choir not not Glee.
This is very different.
Yeah. So this was more like more traditional pieces, but then we throw in like a, you know, a jazzy piece.
But like we didn't do the really cool modern songs like Glee.
I am some of those arrangements on Glee I'm not a fan of, but this is not where I'm going to air that dirty laundry.
So that's another podcast. That is another podcast. So you grew up acting competitive improv, competitive choir.
wire i know it sounds like i'm so competitive hey nothing wrong with that but you have a you had a very long kind of extensive training training background right you grew up with it did you play play games when you were younger were you a gamer i hate i hate that word i we need to find another word for that just because i feel like saying you're a gamer doesn't encapsulate the whole experience of sitting down and playing something and like we're not like sitting down and playing call of duty it's like i'm playing a playing a story like a thousand times resist so were you a gamer well i mean so this is this is a really
funny story so i love this i grew up with nintendo like the original nintendo so i played like the muppets games i played do you remember that muppet game the carnival one i loved it it was so much fun oh my god bring back the muppets games yeah there hasn't been a muppets game in a long time like the space the the the kermit canoeing in In the river?
Yes. I love, oh my God, it's been so long since I thought about that game.
This is going to derail this whole conversation.
Muppets game, Super Mario, like very original Nintendo, Duck Hunt, all that.
I was not very good, but I had a blast. It was fun.
I loved it. And afterwards, I remember, I didn't have a console after that, so I would go to my friend's house and we would play, like, I remember the next big game that I was obsessed with was like the N64 Goldeneye.
Yes. I sucked, but it was so much fun.
Yes. And then I guess I like took a big break and I haven't, I didn't play until the pandemic.
My husband owns a PS2 and he was like, let's just pull this out.
He's like, I have some games, let's play.
And so he loves playing RE4.
So we were playing Resident Evil 4 and, you know, my, my experience with gaming was the original Nintendo.
so there's no joystick it's just the d -pad yeah and a and b and so me trying to play with a joystick it was ridiculous you know and you have to shoot zombies yeah so it's like shoot point up i'd point to the sky point down i point to the ground and i'm panicking yeah i scream at the at the screen i'm like oh my god they're gonna come and get me and so he decided maybe maybe zombie a different a different game maybe not a zombie apocalypse game so what so what did he make you play next prince of persia that's also a pretty intense game though it was but i kind of i liked it it was a good balance
because i do like puzzle games and so i was the my first game i ever completed oh okay wow so it really got me excited and and also in the pandemic where all feeling of dread and you know like I feel lost I felt like I accomplished something so video games made me feel it was like my solace I was like okay I have a goal and I'm gonna do this submission you know and I'm gonna like do the side quests and do you know and it was just it made it made me feel like I was doing something productive with my life yeah like I feel the same way I I think I finished more more games during the pandemic than I
have in my entire existence just because one, we hit the time we were all home.
But also that feeling of like, I, I went somewhere.
Yeah, I did something experience something new.
I went somewhere different.
And so yeah, so I'm like kind of behind in gaming but but like and then also I found out that the laptop I bought was a gaming laptop.
And my sister was like, you know, you can just play any game right on Steam.
I was like wait what yes and and Steam opened a whole new world to me yeah so Tomb Raider games like right now I'm playing Lorelei and the Laser Eyes oh my gosh another yeah so many yeah good puzzle yeah puzzle games amazing I love that game so much I feel like the last couple years have been a renaissance of smaller games from really interesting creator backgrounds which is where 1 ,000 times resists come in.
I have interviewed Remy and Pinky and we've talked about how, you know, they're a group of performers that pivoted during the pandemic.
So where did you come in?
How did you, what was, I want the full like detail, minutiae story of how you became Watcher, how you got Watcher.
It was, so I knew one of the writers, Connor from theater.
Okay. So we were, we did like a play reading, which is where you workshop a brand new play that hasn't been produced yet and so as actors you you still perform it but you give feedback and notes and it's super collaborative so Connor and I did that for like years and years before and then I get an email out of nowhere and he's like hey you remember we did that play reading together well in the pivot of all pivots I'm helping write a video game now and do you want to read for a character and so I got this this like big package and he was like oh you know like read for like it was like something
crazy like seven characters oh wow and I mean and that's insane right because you're like whoa but he said pick pick some because he's like we really don't know the the alchemy of voices yet and I think yeah so it was kind of cool that it was kind of given to me like what do you want to read what like resonates with you um he just said make sure that you read for knower or healer That was, I guess, that was something that was put forward. Okay.
Read for knower or healer.
And as we know, I'm a big watcher.
Yeah. So I read for - The big one.
Yeah. Which were like, at that point, I didn't know.
Yeah. You know, because they didn't say, you know, with games, you never get any information.
So - No. It's very, it's very restrictive.
I'm actually surprised to hear that from an indie studio.
Because I know with like triple A, everything kind of gets scrubbed.
and you hand this like sterile packet to the actor and I know that's because we don't want the actor to get a preconceived notion of what they're doing or something like that but I've never heard of it done for indie so I'm a little well we didn't get like the full like scene it was it would be like one maybe a scene and then call outs and then yeah so they kind of give a little breakdown like this person is like this or this person this is their function or this is what what their interests are like.
Yeah. But it was only, like, a couple lines.
Jeez. Yeah. That's not a lot of info to go on.
No. And they did kind of write a little bit about the tone, saying that they want more naturalistic, realistic, because, you know, when you think video gay, sometimes you think, like, big, bombastic, full voices, right?
And they just were like, no, very naturalistic.
Yeah. And so I thought that was amazing feedback.
And the scene for Watcher, the audition scene for Watcher, because it was one scene and a bunch of call -outs.
Yeah. What was the scene?
The scene was when she's, visiting um Zhao in the hospital bed I know what an audition side I know what and it's like they don't tell you about you know the clones but you're talking about it about like who gets chosen who doesn't yeah and it was just yeah you're like heavy that's like heavy for an audition side especially when you don't have the context of the full oh my god okay sorry but it just to me it was like it made sense I don't know like I just was like oh she's like I felt like Watcher was so stuck like she really wants to help this person but has no idea how and so I was like okay
I understand that yeah yeah and then so I sent it in and it took it took a while it was like it was so funny because I remember the first meeting I had it was there was a heat dome in Vancouver so it was like the hottest it had ever been and so we don't really have air conditioning in apartments it's because we just don't really need it so it was so hot and I had a zoom meeting so I went to a coffee shop just to make sure there was ac so I they wouldn't see me just like hey guys just fully sweating were you wait did you do the read in the coffee shop no I sent a tape for the read but then when they
wanted to offer me a role they didn't say what role they just wanted to meet with me and have a chat and explain the project to make sure I was interested it okay because because you know something that Remy was saying from day one is that our process is very unusual yes like we come from the theater so it's not going to be like you just go in and record everything and then leave he's like we're kind of writing the game as we go yeah yep right and also so he was like he wanted it to be a super collaborative project and that it would probably take a long time because it's such an indie team and I
was like this sounds amazing amazing so when they when you were sitting there they went to offer you the role did they tell you it's sorry it's someone you did you end up reading for watcher in your audition sites or no yes I did I did yeah so did it so what did they tell you were they like you are the linchpin of the whole wall you are the disruptor it's you they're like you are gonna be watcher um she's the she's the lead character you're the character that the players will be be playing and I'm like the playable character and because I had just started playing video games a lot I was like I
knew the pressure yeah and like I knew that you know because for me obviously with my acting background like cut scenes great that's just like a scene yeah but the way that you know playable characters are they the way that they interact with objects it's different because you don't every permutation of a player are you gonna go to that book first I could go to the table yeah where are you gonna go and so I didn't want it to sound all the same and so just trying to work with Remy about like the permutation like if you want to get mathematical the permutations of like of the scenarios what order
you don't want it to sound too one way you want the you know but not be so engaging that the audience member it's too much for their ears right where it's like oh my god I just want to look at the book I don't need you to be like a book you know so yeah and this is your first this is your first gaming role too yes how did that feel were you like oh I'm a I'm a game vo now I mean it's like weird to even say now I just I it's a dream come true yeah and yeah like just I think especially because I started playing video games I was like wow these are like films but like interactive films like these
are pieces of heart like I remember I played like the the new jedi game at that time with Cameron Monaghan I was just like bawling it's a good one and I was like oh my god like it's so the story it's so beautiful and it can be so enveloping and and it's with the voice so I knew there was a lot of pressure so I think that was more like I'm like yay but also oh my god what am I doing well Well, Watcher has, well, okay, I'm getting ahead of myself.
So you mentioned earlier that your direction, their direction for the whole game was they wanted everyone to sound natural.
They didn't want to have these, like, overactive video game voices.
There is, there is like a stillness.
And, like, for someone who played the game, part of what I really enjoyed about playing the game is all of you have, it's going to sound so weird, like soothing voices.
almost I'll take it like I was really excited because 1000 times resist was built to me as like you play a game you're a bunch of women that's all I'm gonna tell you and I was like yes don't laugh at me off -camera laughter from from our producer no and I was like you're just a bunch of women and I was like this sounds amazing and then I was playing it and everyone has these like the vocal tones are very natural everyone is like speaking very very gently but you have some of these characters that have these really strong and even a little sinister undertones, but they're all coming through with this gentle
kind of voice. And it's the juxtaposition for, from a player's perspective was really nice.
I loved playing the game because all of you sounded so soothing.
So I would play and I would just be like, no bad things are happening, but everyone sounds so great in this game.
I'm just like, I'm in the all women city with all the women just hanging out.
it's fine something bad's happening it's fine so so when you were finding watcher you're it's watcher but also blue so i want to talk about watcher first like how you found her because she is so distinct despite being a clone i know it's not crazy it's it's and that was the thing i asked remy i was like okay so obviously what i did in the audition doesn't have to be the final product like because i need to know more information and so he was going to send me the script and then he thought you know what it's gonna be easier if you just play it so i play tested each chapter before i recorded it
that's really that's a genius idea isn't that so cool so i really got to feel from an audience perspective what was going on and also like can you imagine and trying to explain the game like i i had trouble just now like i i keep forgetting oh and there's aliens oh and there's i'm forgetting like 10 things it's such a multi -layered experience exactly and so he was it's probably better if you play it and experience it but then also he's being so smart he was like and then also give me feedback here's the feedback for perfect right so it's like i was play testing like qc 'ing as well as from an actor perspective
perspective finding my character and i and honestly like especially for my character because you are playing as watcher so experiencing it yeah as watcher i think helped me find moments of her and you know she's she's just trying she's just trying to do her best yeah she takes things so literally like i adore her i want to be like no honey that's that's okay you know do you remember Remember the books Amelia Bedelia?
Another thing that I literally haven't thought about in like a jillion years.
I am just pulling them out for you.
Yes, I have. Those were kind of scary books, actually.
I mean, yeah, actually looking back, it's like she was too literal.
Yeah, if she does anything you do, what if you're like, slay queen?
What is she going to do?
She's like, I'm going to find a queen and slay it.
Yeah, exactly. Yes, but no, I see exactly what you mean when you talk about her and Watcher.
Yeah. It's that innocence and that like earnest. Yeah.
Like trying to that earnestness of trying to do the right thing or to do well and.
Failure. And failure.
And failure. There is a I'm really into like modern character tropes right now.
And something that comes to mind with 1000 Times Resist a lot is the girl failure trope.
Yes. And I definitely see like Iris to me is like the ultimate girl failure.
because of iris yeah because of but i see in all of her like you know watch her and don't like everyone is trying to do what they think is right but then obviously like there is a failure point for everyone when kind of with that in mind when you were putting when you were putting watcher together i guess you got to play the game before you recorded her so you got to essentially like like feel her out like see what what exactly we would be doing which is kind of a rarity if If you're not dubbing a game like so many games, it's like either you're mo capping it.
So you don't see it until you've already done it physically done it or you've, you know, put your voice into it.
You're looking at a spreadsheet and you're not looking at like the spreadsheet of death, the long list of barks and all of and all of that stuff.
So you have this new character that you get to play first before you be her.
And she's an original character with sort of no really preconceived notion of who she is.
So, like, did you do any research for this?
Like, where did you look when you were, again, trying to find that earnestness?
Like, what were your inspiration points?
And when you felt like you were maybe straying away from her, how did you call her back?
These are very good questions.
i love talking to actors yeah i'm so freaking fascinated i mean i am naturally a researcher but i think with watcher you're nowhere i i am like i'm kind of a nowhere it's true but not that dark no a nicer nowhere yes uh but like with watcher it just playing the game it made sense you know and i think what really pulled me in was the iris and jow story oh my god so devastating it is devastating and I think like you know obviously me being a Vietnamese Canadian immigrant I was also like second generation and so I was on both sides I know what it was like to be Joe in the beginning and not like find
that connection and then I also know what it's like to be Iris where I was like well I'm I I don't want to deal with this bullshit and and racism and and weirdness from people.
I just want them to accept me.
So if it means assimilating, I'll do it.
And I did. And so I think that's why it hits people so hard because they've seen both sides.
And there's no, you know, nothing good comes of either.
We saw what happened at Jao.
I know. I was like crying in the booth, I was like, oh my God.
Like crying. Remy has all these videos of me play testing because he recorded them for reactions.
And so I'm crying in them where I'm going, Ooh, that's a, wow.
Good job. They're out there.
The soup would just release a super cut of like, you could just like reacting, crying, reacting, crying, everything.
So I think it was for me, even though watcher may not speak with her heart as much as Jow, she leads with her heart.
And I think that was always the entry point for her.
Yeah. When you, so, So Watcher like all the other clones they are clones of Iris.
So when you were kind of building Watcher and finding her did you like what did you take from Iris?
Like how did you look at her?
Like how did you find that relationship?
Because I definitely sense the nuance in each like each clone the main the oh my god I almost was like the Power Rangers.
Because they're the colors.
another deep cut but so but each one of them you know has a specific function but they're pulling from a very specific thread of iris's personality and what she kind of like you know held on to so for watcher what like what is that what is that relationship like with iris it's so it's obedience like i think that was the big thing it's like because iris never got love from her mother it was something that she was always searching for and so and so how she reacted was obviously doing the same to Jao and so Watcher is that was that's their connection she is always looking for acceptance and you know
never could that's why that scene where they're like playing hide and seek with the youngest and I'm like you bastard this is such a painful such a painful game it is but then it's like I think we've all been in situations I think that's why it hits us so hard because we're like oh my god like I've been the bully or I've been on the receiving end or you know and there's so much pressure when you don't fit in and there's like a big group and that's the thing it's like the clones and the all mother, it's like there's this whole institution, so if you follow along, you have to follow along and you'll
be loved and accepted and if you don't what happens and the thing was that Watcher was always trying you know even her earliest form the Watcher function but they just there's something off.
They can't because their function is already removed.
So they've never really been in.
But now they're made fun of not being in, but that's kind of their job to not be in.
So they're kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't.
When you go to that place, when you are acting and you're kind of putting yourself in that dark place, how do you get there?
How do you get out?
Training. good training i mean yeah so um my post -secondary education i went to like a private performing arts school in vancouver and it was conservatory style so that you would spend like i have a voice teacher i have a meisner teacher i have a scene set you know a meisner what's that meisner is a technique and it teaches you subtext through repetition like true meaning so if you were were to be like and it has to be all um based off of organic feelings so i might be like i love your jacket and you'd be like i love your jacket it's like i love your jacket and then it keeps going and then the meaning
changes even though the words stay the same so you're so what it is it's you're opening up like your true intentions like your impulses yeah i've heard of that some people some people love it some people hate it it is contentious i had someone almost throw a chair at me in the meisner class because it was getting so intense and you're just like basic statements because it has to be a fact okay like you're making me upset or you looked at me weird or you know what i mean like yeah so yeah it can get really intense because you can feel the subtext oh i'm gonna look look this up and look into this after after this podcast
because that sounds cool it is cool it is great but it's not for everyone and i think that's intense it is intense and i i think that's why acting so amazing because there's no formula yeah and everyone has their own way in even for me even though i know me every character i play i have to find an entry point and that entry point is so different for every character yeah i have to find it so for watcher in particular going into that place of darkness it was trusting myself making sure i was safe yeah and a big part of my training in conservatory was getting out you know like just safely getting
getting out just being able to that was a week that was a good one that was that was a really good one so how like i hate to like dig into that more but how do you get out is it just like a do you train yourself to just kind of turn it off is it like a compartmentalization thing or is it just like for me it is compartmentalization um other you know because i think especially if you're in a character for a long time you're always going to carry it a little bit yeah right especially in film and television, you're filming for long days.
You're carrying a residual around so it's not harder to jump back into.
With something like Watcher where we were recording this chapter for this chunk, you'd go in and do it.
Then I'd have to set it and forget it.
It's like there it is.
It's over there. It's baking.
It's doing a good job.
Now it's done and I have to let it go.
go yeah it's just it is it is you're right it's compartmentalization it's trying to focus on it's like how am I like watcher and how am I not like watcher after you know so when it's we're done with that it's like I'm not watcher now I'm me and this is our differences how are you like watcher what parts of you are in watcher oh I am so naive like if you lie to me I'll be like really oh totally like people joke with me all the time and like yeah tease me and I'm like Like, OK, like I just fall for stuff.
So here in Vegas, I'm so scared.
You'll be fine. No, no, no, no. You're with us.
You're going to be good.
There's so many tricks here.
We won't. We won't let the tricksters get you.
Speaking of entry points and compartmentalization, you actually play two characters, your watcher and your blue, who have similar traits but are very different.
So when you were recording, when you were going through the script, at what point did Did you know that you'd be playing this other version of yourself?
And then how did you make her so different?
So Remy and Pinky kept it from me.
Oh, rude. Okay. They didn't want me to know that it would be splitting.
And so they kind of kept it secret until I play the chapter.
Okay. Oh, so wait, did you record the game in order?
Yeah. Oh, I know. That's also rare.
It's rare in anything.
Filming in order, recording in order.
like that's never happened so it was amazing because I got to build the character like I was learning the story as Watcher was learning the story so we were in real time yeah which was incredible we did that's very method it was we did go back and re -record like pick ups and re -record certain sections after like once I really nailed Blue and we kind of came to the end of the game we kind of came back and polished some stuff so chapter one is mostly my recording my first recording and then a little bit after blue and so yeah I don't know go back and see if you can hear a difference.
That's crazy I do like you definitely you definitely feel like you are different versions of the same way where everyone's kind of like a clone of Iris you can definitely feel that difference so when you were getting into blue because blue kind of has a little bit more of a like kind of melancholy at the beginning and kind of has to get like cajoled into action like how how did you find her?
well we had a i mean we had a whole session where we were just talking and and and kind of workshopping her voice and her her style so that was like just a whole session dedicated to that um and things that we talked about was like blue had a completely different upbringing right so she lived in a different area things were harder you know there was a separation already ready and so she had to be tougher it was almost like she was like in the streets you know yeah with the other shells while watcher has always lived this place of privilege yeah right she she had a function she even though she
had her own struggles within that group she was put on a pedestal yeah so and and so i would say her upbringing was very sheltered like literally in a bunker sheltered sheltered hey we did it um so that was a big thing and also for watcher she's so earnest and she's genuinely trying and unable to connect well i feel like blue is the opposite like blue gets it yeah blue really understands and that's why she pulls back because she knows and she's way more mistrustful watcher is actually too trusting blue is was mistrustful so i think those were some key points that that separated them but it was mainly
it was the upbringing like where is blue from and also what happened to blue yeah you know like blue lost her friend and and had seen people disappearing so it just changes who you are you harden i mean bartender was her one friend and she kept you know she's kind of messing up she's not not she's use it yeah like you know when you don't function in life yes oh my god i'm saying function again that's okay yeah you know you don't function in life and you're like what is going on it's like that was blue it's like she is just not able to screw her head on straight because she just she's to her it
was like what is this all for yeah yep you know like she didn't even give herself blue until melody was like give yourself a name because to her she was like what's the point yeah so it sounds like you got to collaborate really closely with like the writing team on on building blue and on building these characters yeah i mean like the writing was there okay and it was always a big i guess like north star yeah for everything it always came back to the writing but it was definitely but like remy and i in particular worked on the essence of the voice like certain characteristics and we wanted it
to be but here's the thing we didn't want it to be it was okay that it sounded they had some similarities because they're clones yeah yeah right so that but different enough that you were like oh this is this is a person with a completely different background in life I would definitely say as a writer myself my favorite part of the writing process is when we have our casting and we get to sit down with the actor and like hear hear what they have to say about what they've read and what they've done I've only ever been been in situations that were recorded out of order so it's always a little bit
chaotic and a little bit weird but i i love how collaborative and very much like the theater dna is baked into this game including the way it's blocked out like i i i'm i could i just want to sit here and talk about this game forever it's so good so in terms of we talked about balancing the two versions of of your character um in all of the the sort of material you've talked about you know Watcher like I'm naive and like Blue is like this for you well how did it feel like to how did it feel like to like finish this game when you were like done because there's such a huge catharsis at the end so from an actor's
perspective like what was that like for you I cried I did I cried well I I cried, like, obviously when I let go of Watcher and took over Blue, I cried.
I had to, like, mourn that.
And then as Blue, I, yeah, I cried in our last session.
Because it was, like you said, it is such a release.
And, of course, too, like, I don't know what ending people are going to pick.
Oh, yeah, that's right.
So that's always, like, a big mystery as well.
What ending did you pick?
I had the principal ending oh why please explain well because I hate Mauve she she was awful what she did to watch her I like really personally was like who is this person like I remember with Remy playing the game and I was like I don't like her she's mean and then Remy thought it'd be really funny if it would then like I think it progressed like yeah he like made it a a character and like gave her a name and everything yeah because i was like oh she's mean she's not doing anything oh i don't like it and yeah and it became like this whole piece it's so funny that's such a that's so interesting
because i feel like that is such a critical part of her progression in that story is like i'm just in here with this one person and i've decided sorry i swore yeah and like give you a name and like yeah and everything because she's she's lost her mind you know and yeah and you know having someone like know or just betray her like that and just like everything changing overnight yeah yeah when you were over overall when you were recording for art to recording for blue you said you were playing like resident evil and you played prince of prince of persia were there any games that you played or looked
at that you were like to prepare myself to play a game character like did you look at anything or were you just like I'm just gonna go for it well I was playing the I think around that time I was playing the um Tomb Raider games oh which one the um oh my gosh I'm gonna get this wrong the new ones the newer ones yeah I play trilogy yeah the new trilogy I played all three of them okay wow all right and there's something about the voice actor playing Lara Croft she emoted so much and and when it was those cut scenes I was just like really diving into she did a great job the emotionality of it and also um
you know like you were saying like these barks and the and these interactions i was like okay interesting you know this and that and the call outs and stuff i was like okay just trying to get an understanding of not not everything has to be big not everything has to have a story it could just be fact fact you know and and so when we recorded that i recorded series so i was like i'll give you abcs of these and then you can choose based on it i just them sifting through all of the takes i can't even imagine it just would have been hours how long how long did you record for watcher two years two
years yeah that's pretty long it was not to be like oh for an indie game but like for a small independent game that's like a very thorough chunk of time did you when you were playing the game knowing that you like you would kind of just just did i was gonna say divin dived that's the word i'm looking for i'm a writer i know how to talk you had just you had you had just dived into games and then you were playing this game so when you were you know prince of preserves are risen evil and then you get to a thousand times resist and again the way it's blocked is very theatrical the perspective changes
you have your third person your first person like how did that like like what did you think like what did that how did that make you feel where you're like oh this is like such a different blocking like did you connect with kind of like the performance blocking right away what was that like i loved I just loved it.
I just was so taken aback.
I was like, and then it turns into a side scroller.
Like I just was like, this game just doesn't stop.
It keeps me guessing.
I couldn't nail it down.
And I think that's why in the beginning, it was so hard to describe.
I mean, it still is.
just on one I'm like they're like what is it I'm like a walking narrative first person point and click adventure but also you know yeah it's I still haven't been able to find the right words but yeah I think what struck me was like you said the stillness the quietness of the game because you know at that point I was like I am obsessed with fighting games I love it yes like I was was getting really into these fighting games and I'm like and I'm good and so this game there's no combat there's no combat it's like a combat of the mind you know what I mean yeah and I'm gonna start describing it like
that yeah it's so philosophical and I think that's another reason why the voices kind of come off very soothing because we're saying such heavy dense things yeah it almost lets you take it in more yes right you're you're you accept the words words maybe not really fully understanding but they marinate in you you're like oh I hear it okay yeah it's very like as you just said that I heard watcher and so I just went I kind of like had a minute I'm like yes yes take me back there um no I mean it like there's something and again like not to be like game there's like one dude in the entire in the entire
game and it's the dad yeah but something about having this like futuristic like apocalyptic ecliptic whiff of evangeline in there all women like same woman kind of like with all of this very like somewhat maternal sisterly soothing kind of atmosphere to it it is quite a special experience it is it's so much to take in because it's like there's like you said like there's the iris and joe relationship and then there's like iris's family like her mom and dad so every everything thing like what they came from yeah but they escaped and then you also have like watcher's story within like the functions
of the sisters and then you have like the next round with blue and what's going on with the capital and everything and yeah and then yeah like you're saying it's all about the sisterhood and also like how quickly you can turn on each other yeah it just dissolves yeah yeah it makes you yeah it makes you I don't know it it just won't it it never lets up no and I think that's the thing too because you're like oh okay I think I get this game or okay I'm understanding this part and then suddenly you're like over here and it never feels too much no it never feels like gratuitous no and so that I don't
know how they mastered that because that I think that's what was so compelling to me playing this game I felt pretty early on I was in safe hands you know as a player when you play yeah as an actor too I'm like oh they've really thought about this and and I think that's why it took two years to record because they were writing the game simultaneously and there was a break point where they're like there was a pause because they were still nailing out the story yeah and they're like no it's not quite there obsessed like that whole chapter with noah oh yeah like all that philosophical and like talking
to the source it's like what that was that's a hard chapter too it is yeah and i remember like they were kind of asking like do you think it's too heavy do you think it's heady and i said no you need this because i think at this point you kind of need to lay it all out because you've experience it all but now we need to like talk about it yeah and make decisions and i love that it's coming from noah because she is so tough yeah so incredible yeah i and i think that's another thing too like because watcher is such a because she's such a you know like a person on the outside she's such a she's such
a watcher she's a watcher she's a watcher that you can really see her like finding her personality based off of how she interacts with each sister each sister pulled a different part of her out more yes and it's and it's so cool because you know like we all have that right we all have different faces that we have for different people and like her and secretary is just something else it's like sometimes i'm like god she's so mean but then to me i'm like that's just echoing iris and jao yeah she's doing what the all mother did to her little little one yeah it's just it's the the the subtextual strategically
placed echoes in that game once you once i feel like once i got to the end i was finally able to like see back and be like oh oh oh oh wait what ending did you get i got so i decided to wipe everyone out oh damn start over I was like no one no I'm like so that that was it that was my first ending and then I was like actually no and then I went back and I think I like strategically I strategically removed all like the military and the police people and it was just like the sisters that like the um uh fixer and healer and everyone like they got to live and I got the ending where where Watcher Blue
is standing on the thing and like that like vision of Iris with her first children like on the beach and that was a like shock because I remember I I made some strategic pics got one of the bad endings where it ended with them all in like a pile of bodies and I was like no no no and I backed out I like clicked out I'm like nope no I know I know that like because like I know that I could have saved it and I because I save I'm one of those yes I'm one of of those like extremely like controlling gamers so I'm like I know there's yes yes I'm like I have to see all of it I'm not gonna watch YouTube
video I want to do it but my first organic playthrough I accidentally got the bodies piling up and I was like no x'd out I'm like I don't want to see it I want to do it and then I went back and I wiped everyone out and I was like oh I have to start over I know because I played it a couple times and I was like you know what I felt I was feeling very very forgiving that day I was like the capital red they're fine the cops no no get ready just just shooting range I was like oh no no no but it's so like that's also one of the I think greatest strengths of this game is like you get to this end and then
as the player you're like you get to make some strategic choices that you haven't really been able to make up until this point but you have all the information you need yeah and those strategic choices are going to have a very very specific outcome and it's just like and I love how if you try to leave the light on for everyone oh things still go to shit yeah they're like no nope no load is too heavy to carry i think i really feel i really feel like that game so that that particular ending encapsulates so much of like i don't know like our world today it's like we have to we have to be here for each
other like it's not like we we can try to mold it into one thing but it will always be many things and we kind of have to be okay with that we have to be okay with that yeah there's always going to be dissenting voices and that's okay and that's okay right but it's like hard because yeah and and I think too it was something an aspect too was the whole crying disease you know obviously which was like an echo of COVID but it was such a such a unique way of allowing people to process that like I know I did I was like oh my god I was like oh they cry and then And they, ooh, they dehydrated.
They cried to death.
Oh, my God. I know, and it's like, I'm not crying.
It's like, oh, my God.
Yes, I cried. Even though the game is, for a game, it's like, you can get all the endings like sub -five hours if you really sit and you look at everything.
It's a very poignant five hours.
So now that you have done a game, obviously you're an actress, so you're going to be out in the world.
So what do you think you're going to carry with you from this experience working on a game into another project that's maybe not a game?
Like what do you think other mediums can learn from games?
That they have incredible stories and it's where the writing is where it starts and I feel like sometimes with the pressure of selling a movie or pushing out an episode in television right it's like the writing is sometimes like yeah yeah yeah that's enough.
Yeah. And I think I hope to challenge writers.
It's not enough. Push more.
Get outside your comfort zone.
Like if you you were to give a script of a thousand times resist you'd you know you'd be like this is insane how can you do this it's breaking all the rules like a film oh yeah i could imagine looking at that and being like how do i shoot this yeah but also like narratively i think it breaks a lot of rules too it does break a lot of rules you know or they're like oh my gosh this is so dense all the like no one's gonna get it but i think we sometimes it's we're too focused on the capitalism aspect of the selling and mistreating our audience we're not thinking our audience is smart enough up but they
are and when they get something that they understand and feel as special and unique they're gonna love it oh yeah we had this um when i when i talked to rami and p on this podcast they said that they designed the game like the actual design of the game with constraints in mind and that's like why the big aliens like don't have a head because they didn't you would have to design and render like another like face and the idea to do clones is like well you only have to really make one face which is so crazy when you when you think about it because to me they all look so different they they do but they're
the same but the build is the same the build is the same the build is the same the face is the same it's just unreal i'm missing you know different pieces and the fact that you know with the um you know you're in this very curated little hub and the things that you do as watcher when you're kind of moving through those those memories you're not really physically in a place it's like a it's like a clump of things a clump of things a clump of of things that very, I think very beautifully represent what memories can kind of feel like there's disjointed pieces like floating in your brain.
So what you're saying right now about how like the capitalism of it all can sometimes ruin a good piece of art, the designing this game within constraints, which was definitely built out of a, you know, we don't want to overspend on our budget.
This is going to take time.
This is going to take money.
How can we convey the same feeling with um something a little something not as complex but subtle like the subtext so good and the vignettes like yes when I actually went gasped when she goes into the school gym oh and all the student bodies are flowing you know exactly like the feeling is there it evokes it and that's all that matters right it's like as long as you get that feeling and I think sometimes these images we are so humans love like imagery it's what we remember yes yes and so something so poignant and so unique so different right because if it was just like a bunch of students like
crying it'd be horrifying and interesting but we've seen it but the subtlety of just like it's almost creepier it's again it's that stillness yes right and so i think like yeah asked i'm like saying this i'm like wow good job team you know i love it like you were in this game and we're like fangirling over it well because i honestly like it it's surreal to me this is my first video game i like this is so new yeah but like this the community yes has just come out and been just incredible so supportive and they really understand it yeah and i think that's what like we were worried a little bit right
before the game launch i was like are you excited and everyone was like well you really hope people get it oh my gosh right because you imagine like spending how many years working on it it makes sense to you and then people are like and then people are like oh i don't get it you're like oh no i i finished the game and immediately jumped on got on the reddit and was like what are other people talking about and saying and like people kind of talking about their own experience with it and like their personal experience resonated with them and like like pointing out very specific imagery.
Like everything is so, the subtext is so beautifully curated.
Like you don't have to say things.
Like the relationship with Iris and Zhao we talked about earlier.
There's definitely, like the game doesn't come out and say like, and Iris abused Zhao and blah, blah, blah.
It's just like, look.
Exactly. Just watch. Yeah.
And it's just like, and I love it because like Zhao's love language is food.
Yeah. And that's kind of what it's around, right?
Like she's always trying to feed her and then she's like, oh, these smells so gross.
why do you eat that it's just yeah i think that yeah it's less direct and i think it allows people to interpret and therefore connect more yeah i really hope everyone listening played this game already because we've just like completely unpacked it for you so oh and you know and i also have to admit you know like on reddit i found out that it was like 1000 times resist is an anagram of sisters sisters.
Yeah. I was like, wait, what?
I know I did. Thank you.
Reddit. Thank you, fans.
I had no idea. I was like, that was so freaking cool.
Yeah. I love your face right now.
Yes. Jesus Christ. Oh my God.
Oh my God. That's yeah.
I'm going to run, run out of here after we record this and be like, oh my God.
No. So I, again, like, my my game of the year for last year really just a beautiful experience and you are nominated for a we're recording this before the dice awards um in february congratulations again yes phenomenal performance but also like i'm just again surreal to be nominated alongside such like voiceover titans in this community so i'm just like i'm the new kid on the block i'm just excited to be here there it's a it's it's well it's a great community welcome to the community um speaking of like what now that you've done one game what would you like to do next like what would be ever all
the developers listening what would be your like dream role i want to do mocap yeah because i come from theater and i'm really physical i even do stunts in film so i'm like oh my gosh you do you stunts yeah nothing crazy but like yeah i can like fights and stuff oh my god yeah neil newbon are you listening we have another stunt person let's go i think something like that like something where i get to really you know because explore the emotional side of a character but also the physical like i would love to learn a skill like like like some physical skill like i don't know knife knives or archery
or something like you know what i mean spears i don't know know axes swords all of them I'll do it I'll take it so is there a genre though like is there like you're like okay you want to you want to fight is and you want to do mocap but is there like a genre that you're like this speaks to me and I really want to oh are you just I mean I mean I love it all but like horror horror okay super special to me I don't know I've okay I love getting scared but I hate getting scared did you do you understand that I can't handle jump scares scares at all but do you love it no oh no see i'm different i can't
i literally um i was once thrown a surprise party and when they opened the door and yelled surprise i punched the clip the person closest to me in the face because i was so startled and uncomfortable okay the original resident evil the dogs through the window like ruined me for the rest of my life oh my god i can't like that's scary but that's also like the old resident evil with like the weird polygons and all that stuff cubes yeah yeah the cubes and it's like kind of like the lowest level of scary I can't play Five Nights at Freddy's I can't play Fezzophobia I can't play any I can't play any
horror games because I just am too nervous But wouldn't it be so fun to like write one or like write one and not experience it maybe I'll write it but I will never play it Okay so speaking of punching so when I do Haunted Houses I love Are you in the Haunted House or are you attending the Haunted House?
You're in the Haunted House you're not the haunted house actor I'm not the actor okay I go in I want to clarify no for sure okay I am so scared it's real to me yeah I know they're actors logically I'm an actor they're just doing their job I get so scared but I also like and also that's just like catnip to them you know you being like yeah and they're like oh excellent and so her her yeah I'm the target and then I put my hand up and I'm like don't come near me I'll hit you so and because I will only go to haunted houses where they can't touch you yeah because if they touch me I'm touching you you
know what I mean like so my adrenaline is up so high and like because one I went to one haunted house And like It said no touching Did they touch you Touched me Touched my back I screamed And ran And I had like My arm linked around My husband I pulled him to the ground Amazing Great Ran and it was like Horror through history So we were in like Ancient Egypt So I Oh no no No mummies No It was a mummy The mummy touched me How dare he It was so mad Cause you're not supposed to Did you go back And punch him Well I ran into the wall Screaming And then I I like, but then I turned around and like missed
it, like it curved, you know, because it looked all bouldery because it's ancient Egypt and I hid it, lost a shoe and was just like, was just like the mommy touched me.
You told, you tattled.
I totally did. I totally, and the, and the mommy, I kid you not, like T -Rex arms backed up and was like, oh no, a lawsuit.
Oh no. Oh, oops. oopsie all scoopy do mummy like that's amazing that would be a fun game right there yeah um oh my god yeah that's that's that's a great anecdote um and also i feel like very on brand for you even though we've only been talking for an hour i feel like i know that that is it is so you are what a freak so you're thinking mocap horror game weapons so like final girl or or villain.
Ooh, villain. You want to play a villain?
That would be cool.
Okay. Yeah. I think I'd be like the unsuspecting villain.
Yeah. Right. Maybe, maybe pose as a friend to the final girl.
I'll help you. And then suddenly the mastermind.
I love it. Yeah. You all heard that.
So get on it. Thank you.
Thank you so much for sitting down with me today.
Congratulations again.
I'm so so excited for you and i'm really excited to see what you do next i'm so excited to be here and to finally meet you i know this is this has been great this is this is the best we're friends forever now i love it thank you for joining us for the game makers notebook for more information on the academy of interactive arts and sciences our podcasts and our other initiatives please please visit www .interactive .org.
