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You ended up being introduced by Larry David to you know part of one of the most famous dynasties in this country you know, and you ended up marrying one of the Kennedys.
I did not grow up that way.
My family...
We never talked politics.
You know, if I asked my mom who she was voting for, she'd say none of my business.
There are some things you don't talk about with people, and politics is one of them.
I didn't have an idea who the Kennedys were.
I would have never in a million years imagined that this would be my life.
It's a fine line to write, still find the comedy in the fun in situations.
A lot of times we'll be at a big dinner table and somebody will be a low talker.
And they are talking about something very serious.
And it's just like, you know, when I, my father said to me, he said, one thing that I never learned.
And Bobby and I are like, wait, did you say your father?
And they're like, yes.
And on his deathbed.
We're like, and then, you know, at some point, you're just like, uh-huh.
Wow.
Okay.
Yes.
You know, you had a very scary experience with an intruder.
With Bobby, yeah, it's intense.
There are people that want to hurt him.
And we've seen it.
I'm home.
I'm in my office.
And I look outside and I see a guy I don't recognize coming in the backyard.
And then I watch security, you know, take him down and...
Somebody in the living room is calling 911.
And I'm like, I think it's actually under control.
I mean, I guess your definition of under control has to shift in your life.
It's my and Bialik's breakdown.
She's going to break it down for you.
Because, you know, she knows a thing or two.
So now she's going to break down.
It's a breakdown.
She's going to break it down.
Hi, I'm Mayim Bialik.
I'm Jonathan Cohen.
And welcome to our breakdown.
This is the place where we break things down.
You never really give me that line.
So you don't have to.
This is the place where we break things down so you don't have to.
Today we're going to break down a very, very funny human.
Very excited.
It's very exciting.
I've worked adjacent to this person, but I really feel like I know her.
Emmy Award-nominated actress, director, and producer Cheryl Hines.
She's perhaps best known for her role as Cheryl on Curb Your Enthusiasm, which is currently airing its 12th And final season.
I freaked out when I saw that that season was.
I didn't know.
And I just opened HBO Max and then all of a sudden there it was.
I was like, oh my gosh.
I'm very excited.
Well, she's been a huge part of it.
Also directing.
An episode of, and many other things, but an episode of Curb in particular.
Cheryl does lots of awesome things.
She has a company that she started with her daughter called Heinz & Young.
We're going to talk about that.
So many things to ask Cheryl Heinz about.
Welcome to The Breakdown.
Thanks, guys.
How was it to hear part of your bio?
It's always strange.
You're like, oh, that's interesting.
And actually something that I would like to add, which I didn't sort of read from the bio.
I know you as a Groundlings alum because I grew up in LA and I have many friends who are part of the Groundlings company.
And you're a huge part of that, you know, community and that, you know.
Yeah, that world.
That whole world.
The improv world.
Exactly.
Improv and sketch.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And you were there in some pretty interesting years.
Like you were there when Will Forte was there.
Will Forte was there.
And a lot of overlap.
I was looking at your cast picture and I've seen a lot of those people you know for years in Groundlings.
Melissa McCarthy.
Yeah.
Kristen Wiig.
It was right before Kristen Wiig.
But Chris Parnell.
Wow.
I mean, there's so many people.
There's just Rachel Harris is in front of my.
Yeah, it's crazy.
Well, I mean, I have so many things I want to ask you about, but I'd like to start there, if we can, because you know, for people who are not in the comedy world, a lot of people don't realize.
You know, it's kind of like Groundlings and Upright Citizens Brigade and like Second City.
Like those are sort of the places in the country and Greater Northern America.
Being respectful to the Canadian in the room,
Those are the places.
We have funny people.
Second City is, yeah, it's Canada.
We're hilarious.
But those are kind of like the places and a lot of people like come to the cities that those places are in order to make it big.
And you start often in these theaters and you end up building a repertoire, you build a character, you build relationships.
And you went from that to obviously other acting roles.
But this role that you are most known for is really, it's an extended long form improv, right?
It is.
And I wonder, when you started doing improv and doing sketch, did you feel like this is my you know gateway to something else?
Like when Curb came about, nobody else was doing what Curb was doing that way.
Actually, they're still not, which is interesting.
I don't know of any... sitcom that's all improvised.
But yeah, it's funny because when I was at the Groundlings I really felt more at home doing sketch comedy, writing sketch, performing sketch.
And then improv was just, you know, I did my best.
Some people are great at it.
Well, what we do on Curb is different than what you do on a live in a live show on stage, right?
You're on stage.
You know this better than anybody.
They say, what are these two people doing?
They work at Dunkin' Donuts.
Lights go down, lights go up.
And then now you're in a scene about Dunkin' Donuts.
And it's terrifying to me.
It makes me cry.
No, it's like.
I keep trying to do the gas, like the cooking with gas show.
It doesn't go well.
Yeah.
Same.
And they're like, no, just come back.
But it's different because on Curr.
So that is more about you know, deciding on a character in a moment.
And, you know, they always say, take it to 10.
So why are you watching this? moment in time.
It's not two people saying, hi, how's it going?
How's it going?
There's a crisis.
There's something going on.
Put your hands up.
Yeah, exactly.
So some people and some improvisers, you know, especially at the Groundlings, just because I know them are so good at they can reference like pop culture politics.
They have everything on their fingertips.
And I am not necessarily that person.
When I did, when I guested, there was a long form, you know, the second act is a long form.
And the, what was chosen was Harry Potter.
And I had not read or seen any Harry Potter.
I haven't.
On this stage.
And it's like, oh, she's famous.
She's going to.
I had no.
I was like, I vaguely know that there's sorcery.
Right.
And I literally just was the sidekick in every scene that I did.
And I like literally didn't go back for five years.
I mean, it was it was horrible.
It wasn't like, oh, you did great.
It was like, I don't know any of these references.
Yeah.
It was really bad.
There was a sketch that you were in.
I forget who your partner was.
When I did it more recently.
Yeah.
And the reference was a book that he clearly didn't know.
And mine didn't know that he didn't know it.
We had to do like a Dr. Seuss book.
I don't know why he didn't know what Dr. Seuss was, but he didn't get the rhyming thing.
So I kept rhyming.
Sometimes it's funny, but the Harry Potter one.
If you have to have a reference, that's Very, very difficult.
Right.
But what did you?
Were there specific characters then that you enjoyed creating in your time there that were more part of like?
I like writing and creating this world as opposed to improv.
Yes, yes.
Yeah, you know, I had some fun characters.
You know, there was a girl that was going over to see her boyfriend and she wanted for him to buzz her in because she was downstairs.
And he just kept making her, you know, kept asking these very personal questions before he'd buzz her in.
And now people are at the door.
You know, they're listening to what kind of condoms.
You know, I hope you're going to drink a lot.
And it's like, oh, my God, just buzz me in.
That's funny.
So there were things like that that I felt like, okay, this is, you know—
I can control it.
I can write it.
I can think about it.
So there were, listen, I was in the Sunday company at the Growlings for two years, which is crazy.
So you're doing sketches every week.
You're writing new sketches and performing on Sundays.
You mentioned the word control, and I think this is one of the reasons I hate improv, because I do.
I like to have, you know, a sense of control.
What is it like?
Because, you know, how do you see, for you, Curb?
Is it a fusion of, you know, sort of creating and also a character that is established?
Like, where do you feel sort of a comfortable sense of control in that format?
Well, Curb is so different because... you know, your training as an actor is all about listening.
Well, I mean, so is improv, of course.
It's really just about listening.
So on Curb, I don't have that pee in your pants, feeling like oh, the oven is on fire at Dunkin Donuts and you know you have to break the extinguisher.
It's like, that's, that's live improv, right?
But on Curb, I know, and I knew from the beginning, who Larry David is and what's sort of ridiculous about him.
And what the idea of the show is, is just to, you know, highlight that, right?
So, but you're a little bit, I mean, everybody's kind of laying pipe, right?
If you're in a scene with Larry, you're like literally laying pipe.
Yeah.
You're just like, oh, yeah.
But it's funny because I was teaching improv when I got that job.
And the first three years of Curb, he never showed me the show outline.
So most shows have a script.
This This has like a three to five page outline.
But I didn't even get to see that.
So when I would be doing scenes with him, Larry would come home and say you know oh, I just killed the neighbor's dog.
I go, oh, my God, why would you?
It's always asking questions.
Right.
They would say, why are you—we watch you, and you're always asking questions.
I said, why?
Because I don't know what's going on in other scenes.
I'm playing the reality of the scene as his wife.
That's funny.
I did nothing he said made sense to me.
So I just said, just tell me, what?
Why would you do that?
So it was—yeah, it's a different— vibe.
Yeah.
I did three episodes, but I think I only spoke in one.
And what was funny, I don't know if you know this story of how I got onto Curb.
So I played Jodie Fonkauser, right?
And the way that I got onto Curb is I was auditioning.
It was after I had had two kids.
It was, I think, before I got Big Bang and I had just started auditioning for things, and I was auditioning in a building.
And as I was walking down the hall, I saw that it was the Curb Your Enthusiasm casting office.
I've never done this in my life.
I walked in and I was like, I'm down the hall for another audition.
This it's not even that's my favorite show.
This show is my life.
I am Larry David.
And I just want you to know, like, I'm auditioning again and I exist. and my name is Mayim Bialik.
And whoever was sitting at the desk was like, oh my gosh, hi, that's really awesome.
I never thought I'd hear anything.
And several weeks later, I got a call to audition for Curb Your Enthusiasm.
And I was like the one time I actually put myself out there was for something I really, really felt passionate about.
So I went in and they gave me a slip of paper.
And it was literally a slip of paper.
It's like an inch.
It's like a ransom note, not even.
And it said, you know, you run into Larry and Jeff and, you know, you're excited to see Larry.
You're not excited to see Jeff.
Like, that's it.
And that was all the information.
I was cast from that audition.
I'm a terrible improv person.
You know this.
I don't think that's true.
But I was like, I didn't even have much to say.
They hired me and I figured, okay, well, I'll get to see the outline.
Nope.
What was the audition, though?
You skipped over the part where, like, you had to play that out.
Yeah, and I was just like, sorry.
I was like, hey, nice to see you.
Hey.
Like, that was it.
And then the audition was over, and I got the job.
And then the day that I showed up to work, I was given no more information.
And they were like, okay, now you're going to do that scene that was on your piece of paper.
And there was Larry and Josh.
And I didn't know that my character was a lesbian.
I didn't know anything.
I didn't know that until the episode came out.
And then I got to be... Until the episode came out.
And then I got to be in two other episodes, you know, with Bob.
And, like, we had this unbelievable... It was a wedding scene.
And, um...
I didn't speak, but they needed me there because I was like part of the family.
Right.
Yeah.
And Bob Einstein.
Yeah.
He just he narrated what every extra was thinking.
And it was it was a running commentary the whole day.
And we were peeing in our pants.
He was unbelievable.
And that was my day.
He was he really was entertained by the atmosphere workers.
And he would always, you know, look across the room.
Oh, my gosh.
He'd look across the room and go, Larry, these are all my friends and family.
Look around you.
And the poor actors that are extras, you know, they're just like, what?
Oh, he had a whole, he would whisper to me, this one is a butcher.
Oh, no.
And she met him on their third date.
He brought a piece of corn.
And it would just go on and on.
Anyway, I had a wonderful time, but I was surprised that you literally don't know what else is happening.
No, you really don't.
There's something about your role on Curb that is actually quite hilariously resembles like the stereotypical wife, yeah you know, and like reflective of relationships are like what are you talking about?
Right, like I talk to my about my business and she's like I don't understand anything that you're saying to me.
Why are you traveling to this city?
And so like that's just on steroids right, just the so.
Which is so, just so perfect.
Well yeah well, thank you, but I do think a lot of couples see themselves in these characters.
Yeah.
And sometimes it's it's sometimes it's opposite.
But a lot of times the husband is Larry David and the wife is Cheryl David.
I'm going to, and you know I love that you didn't have to stay married, meaning your characters didn't have to stay married the whole time.
I think that's really interesting.
And I think it's I think it's important.
You know, it's an important dynamic.
Yeah.
I wonder for you, you know, as an actress in terms of This is a long time to play a role, you know?
It's like a really long time.
And yes, there was a hiatus, but it's a really long time to play that role.
Is there ever a desire to be able to be a different version of this character?
Or is it kind of like once you sign up for this formula, you're in it?
Oh, yeah, no.
No.
Curve is its own...
You know what I mean?
There's no changing it.
Yeah.
Like you're going to be blonde.
Like you couldn't be like, I want to be a redhead.
Like I need to break out of my shell.
No, no.
Because it's never about Cheryl David.
Right.
It's really how Larry David sees the world.
Wow.
It's through his lens.
So there's never going to be a sigh, you know, a B story of, you know, Cheryl David gets a job.
It's like, that's just not this kind of show.
You know what I mean?
I wonder if that's.
I think that's a lot of women's experience, especially before the women's revolution, right.
Before the feminist revolution, like you were just that person's.
There's sometimes if you look in old cemeteries.
Sometimes women are buried as wife of, like John Smith.
Her name's not even on the gravestone.
So I'm not saying that this is like, you know, the 1700s on Curb Your Enthusiasm.
No, but I think it's an interesting thing that as an actor, you're given a role and you kind of have to play it.
And especially for women, sometimes you are.
Yeah, I'm, yeah, because I mean, maybe I'm crazy.
It's maybe true.
I think on, I think it was on SNL.
This is like Years and years ago, I think, they did a curve sketch and somebody played me and they were just, you know, with a dish towel, like just doing nothing, with the dish towel saying Larry.
And I was like, oh my gosh, that's kind of it's just Cheryl waiting for Larry to walk in the door and go.
What are you up to?
And I never really thought about it until I saw that.
I said, oh, okay.
I guess that is – I'm just always at home.
Wow.
You know, Larry.
You know what I mean?
Or we're out to dinner or something.
But if there isn't the one person grounded in some form of reality, you don't really see how – just how absurd it is.
Right.
So like for –
No, you're the audience in that sense.
You're the person helping us understand.
I'm just trying to think about the audience who may be listening that hasn't seen Curb.
How would we describe... It's like this podcast, but with Larry David and Cheryl Lyons.
I'm Larry David and you're Cheryl Lyons.
How would you describe the show?
Yeah, how would you, like, I don't know that I could do it necessarily.
I mean one of the creators of Seinfeld right created a show that's even more Seinfeld than Seinfeld.
Like, that's, you know.
It's often, like, very, very small issues that get extrapolated and blown up to the nth degree.
I mean, unbelievable things happen.
A lot of neuroses.
A lot of neuroses and unbelievable things happen to this man.
And he really hates social niceties.
So I mean I have in real life been with him.
When somebody calls and says you want to go to lunch.
And he's like, no.
And they said, oh.
And he said, why do you want to go to lunch?
And they said, oh, I just, we haven't seen each other in a year.
He's like, no, I don't want to go.
But if you want to talk about something, just say it now.
And they were like, oh, no, I just thought it would be nice.
He's like, no, I don't want to do it.
And there's And that's the part of the show that really speaks to people, because a lot of people think that
They would like to do that.
My favorite Curb Your Enthusiasm moment that I think really typifies the show is when Larry's mother dies.
And obviously he's sad, but he also is so deeply relieved that he can use it as an excuse to get out of everything he doesn't want to do.
And someone will call and be like, you want to do this?
Oh, I'm sorry.
My mom just died.
Right.
Like, that's it.
That's the epitome of Herb.
When Larry was going to do that episode, because, you know, we would talk all the time.
He's like, what do you think about this idea?
I like that I'm saying that.
And Larry's going to listen to this and go, oh, really, Cheryl?
I'm running all my ideas by you and have to wait for you to okay them.
But he said I think I'm going to do a show where my mom dies and my dad doesn't tell me and I miss the funeral.
And I said, that's not funny.
I said, you can't do that.
That's not funny.
And he's like, you watch.
And he did.
Then he did the episode you know, and his dad, played by Shelly Berman, was like well, I don't want to bother you.
A hundred percent.
I mean, this would happen to my family.
A hundred percent.
And it was funny and I was wrong.
So what do I know about comedy?
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Were there.
Ideas that sort of were discarded because they were too crazy that you were like oh, thank gosh, they didn't do that.
Oh, I don't know any of that. that were discarded because they were too crazy.
I know, thinking of the ski lift, and it's Shabbat and she's going to violate Shabbat so she has to jump off the ski lift.
But by the way, that was based on a true story.
It's literally.
My father passed away almost 10 years ago and, like one of the saddest things is that he could not experience, Curve your enthusiasm, because it's like it's our life.
And my dad and I have so many Larry David, like you know, just things happen to me that shouldn't happen to people.
And then I watch Curve and I'm like, it's not just me.
It's happening to Larry.
Anyway.
Yeah.
I do want to talk about losing Richard, Richard Lewis.
And this was this is, you know, a huge icon obviously in the comedy world and such a huge component of this show and of you know.
Obviously you know him and Larry's relationship.
Yeah.
Anything, anything you'd like to talk about?
I'm happy to give you a little space to, you know, to share anything about Richard.
I appreciate that.
I mean, I loved Richard.
And I did.
I had the biggest crush on him, you know, when I was younger.
And he was this, you know, tortured stand-up.
And I was like, I like that guy.
Yeah.
And then when he when I got to work on Curb with him, it was really a dream come true.
And he was as neurotic as one might think.
So I remember because, you know, from being on the show, there's no rehearsal for the scene.
Nobody talks about what's going to happen in the scene.
Larry wants it all to just be to capture the moment, you know.
So even if you do have a tiny rehearsal, you speak gibberish.
You know, if you said oh, I'll come over here and I'll sit down and I'll say la-da-da bing bing, and then I'll walk out the door.
So this was earlier.
Larry and I were across the room.
Richard was on the other side.
And before we're rolling—
Larry and I are talking about nothing.
You know what we're going to have for lunch.
Nothing at all interesting.
And Richard's like, what are you guys talking about?
It's like, no, we're not talking about it.
You guys are coming up with lines.
Are you coming up with something funny?
Cause I've got funny stuff.
And Larry's like, don't have funny stuff.
Don't think about what you're going to say.
And he's like, well, you guys are over there talking about what you're going to say.
We can say, we're not, we were just talking about what we're going to have for lunch.
We're not talking about this scene, but always even I had a.
I had a poker party, you know Texas Hold'em.
And I don't think he was putting this on.
I don't think he was.
But, you know, in Texas Hold'em, you have two blind bets that go around the table.
They rotate around.
And every time I would come to Richard, you know, we'd say, well, you have to put in $25, whatever.
He'd say, what?
Why?
I said, well, that's, you know, the way that this is, you know, three hours into it.
That's the—it rotates around.
I mean, I'm looking around.
I'm the only one putting money in.
Right.
Remember, we just went around the whole table.
He's like, I don't know what you're talking about.
I just felt like I was being crazy.
But he was just always so, so— soulful and sweet at the same time.
Really appreciate it.
Yeah, I think I got to I used to go to Jeff Garland's Break the Fast on Yom Kippur.
And so Bob Saget would be I mean, like it was just like so everybody was there.
And so I think I may have crossed paths with him at one point.
But I also had a huge crush on him.
Something about that hair, you know?
The hair.
It was so hip then.
And we were dressed in black.
All black.
All black.
He was always running his pants through his hair.
I was like, wow, this guy's got a lot going on, but I like it.
I wonder if we can dip into a little bit of what your life was like kind of before you got to Groundlings.
You were born in Florida, is that right?
Yes.
Okay.
And...
You come from humble beginnings.
Yes.
And kind of an interesting story.
I wonder if you can talk a little bit about how you grew up and were your parents creative?
Was it just you?
So I did.
I grew up in Florida, mostly central Florida and then Tallahassee.
Yes, very humble beginnings.
Yes.
My dad had different jobs throughout his life.
One time he, for no reason whatsoever, I don't know what, you know, was he a great businessman?
No.
He came home with a big van and a few mopeds.
Oh, wow.
And we were like, what's happening?
He's like, this is the new business.
Like, how is this a business?
So I had my dad on that side.
Did the business work out?
No.
Okay, just asking.
No, but cut to...
I didn't have a car at some point, you know, I'm 16.
I don't have a car.
I'm like, well, there's the old moped.
I don't remember where it is.
I was going to a dance and I, and I was like, I guess I got to go pick up the corsage on my moped.
But um, and then my mom was, you know, really always working and there were four kids and um Yeah,
I mean, we were on free lunch when I was little.
And I always wondered, well, why do I have to stand in this line?
But, you know, I have a deep appreciation for how hard she worked.
And they were fun.
You know, my mom's still around.
And she's having a ball.
Some days.
Some days.
I'm having a ball.
I'm like, all right.
Yeah.
But yeah, my sister and I would, and I guess I guess my brothers.
They weren't quite as enthusiastic as we were, but we would put on sketch comedy shows.
Yeah.
Every Sunday was they weren't good.
So don't you know, don't be too impressed.
But yeah, I don't know why.
I don't know how why I had that instinct from early on.
Who took the lead amongst your siblings?
Were you like writing and producing and directing or was it collaborative?
Like, how did you guys get into that?
I mean, my sister was very bossy.
I know she's listening.
My sister Becky, Dr. Becky Hines, the first doctor in the family.
But, yeah, she's – I don't know.
We just had a good system, you know.
It's like, okay, you ready to do the elevator sketch?
It's like, yep.
And then whoever –, whatever friends were over, you know, we'd make them wear a hat and tell them what to do.
What number are you in birth order?
Three.
Okay.
So it went –
And when my brother.
Boy.
Yeah.
Chris, who passed away.
It's very sad.
Thank you.
My sister.
OK.
Me.
And then I have a younger brother.
Got it.
Yeah.
Wow.
Are any of them creative or are you really the.
They're creative.
My sister, Becky, is very creative.
Right.
Now Mike is listening going, okay, what am I?
Well, I'm just like, you know, so like, are they musicians?
Are they actors?
Becky is, she's a great writer.
She's an idea person and a good executor.
My dad had ideas.
I was just like, I just bought some mopeds.
Like, well, hmm.
And then Mike is more of a, he's more of a, Well, he was teaching.
And then when I started Heinz and Young, he's now running our warehouse.
Oh, cool.
So he's a, you know, a worker.
Like, yeah, get it all done.
Like, OK.
Did you always know you wanted to be an actor?
Yes.
Were there other things you were interested in, or you felt like that was a Well.
I felt like that.
I never felt like there was going to be anything other than that.
But after I graduated from high school, I didn't think I was going to go to college.
I couldn't afford it for one thing, but also didn't have a desire.
And I went to beauty school.
Wow.
And I got my cosmetology license.
And then, while I was in beauty school, All of my friends were in college and I kept thinking oh boy, when they graduate, are they going to be smarter than me?
What are they teaching?
What are they, what do they know that I don't know?
So I felt, I felt like I really need to go to college just to see what I'm missing, if for no other reason,
So I worked in a salon during the day and I bartended at night for probably a year and just saved as much money as I could.
And then I put myself through school.
Wow.
Where did you go to school?
Where didn't I go to school?
Got it.
I graduated from the University of Central Florida.
Wow.
Yeah.
State school.
That's awesome.
Yeah.
No, it was great.
I had a really great experience and I majored in television production.
Minored in theater.
I wanted to major in theater but I couldn't because I couldn't be in the plays at night, because I had to work.
Wow.
That's a slog to put yourself through school like that.
I mean, like, that's no joke.
By the way, I still owed on student loans when I got Curb Your Enthusiasm.
Wow.
Yeah.
They're paid off now.
Believe it or not.
That's incredible, though. what I'm, I'm really fascinated with beauty school.
I mean partly because, like if you grew up watching the movie Grease, which was my favorite, I watched it.
Yeah.
I was born in 75.
So I was like the perfect age to fall in love with Grease.
Right.
And so there's a whole thing about beauty school.
It's like throughout beauty school dropout.
Yeah.
Anyway.
Um, but it always really fascinated me.
And then my my mom, you know, was raised in the 50s and 60s and so, like I also grew up with like these amazing stories based on photos of like they would wrap toilet paper around their beehive and you'd sleep in it and just like all the like cool things about, like hair, all the things you know.
She would iron her hair in the 70s like on her body.
She once burned herself anyway.
Um, what did?
Did you have like a specialty?
Or like, did you love doing hair?
Did you love doing makeup?
Like, what did you do?
Okay, First of all, I was 17.
Wow.
So I graduated high school when I was 17.
So I started beauty school when I was 17.
This was in the heyday of perms and cherry curls.
So, and there were only a few young.
There were only, I think, like three girls that had just come out of high school.
Everybody else was sort of older and like they knew that they were pretty serious about it.
But we would stay out all night.
We would go to school in the morning, shampoo each other's hair, put it in curlers and then sleep under the hair dryer.
Wow.
Till my instructor would, you know, bang on the...
The hairdryer would say, you can't sleep all day in this class.
So what was I good at?
I don't know.
Haircuts, I guess.
Okay.
Not color.
Okay.
I mean, it's also come quite a distance since probably what it was like.
Not that you're that old.
I'm just saying like the technology is.
First of all, I am that old.
And second of all, it hasn't changed that much.
Right.
But perms were tough because... you can really burn somebody's hair off.
And this one guy that I met, we were talking, he said, oh, did you do pocket perms?
And I said, what?
What's that?
What is a pocket perm?
And he said well, when I was in beauty school And I would give somebody a perm when I would rinse the rod, the hair on the rod,
Sometimes the whole rod with the hair wrapped around it would break off and drop into the shampoo bowl.
He said, and I would just reach in and grab it and put it in my pocket, before they noticed that their hair just fell out.
Because the chemicals are so harsh.
They're so strong.
I mean, you're literally changing the, they're trying to change the follicle.
Yes.
It doesn't want to change.
You soften, you soften the hair.
This is not a perm, by the way.
This is the real deal.
Well, by the way, if I let my hair go, it would look like that.
My hair is curly.
I didn't know that.
It's crazy.
And when I was in Florida, when I first started out, I mean, my hair was just Curly frizzy, not too curly.
Well, Florida weather is like, you know.
And my agent, I had an agent at the time.
And this is before I had done anything.
He said, well, you've been booked for a print job.
I was like, a print job?
Like a model?
Somebody looked at my picture and they want me for a print job.
And they said, yeah.
I said, oh my God, that's amazing.
So I get to the job and I said, what do you, you know, what do you need me to do?
And they said, it's, this is for a salon.
We correct people that have bad perms.
And they said, we just need you to hold up some of your hair.
Your regular hair.
My hair.
And I don't even have a perm.
And to look at my— You were the before.
I was the before.
And look at my hair with a face like, uh-oh.
Look at my hair.
And then when they ran it, they said, bad perm.
We can help.
How much did you get paid for that?
Oh my, I have no idea.
Like $50.
Oh my gosh.
Probably just a sandwich.
And you were the before.
Wow.
Do you have yours like, do you straighten it every day or you do something to it now that makes it stay straight?
Well, first of all, it helps that there's not the humidity.
Right.
Second of all, I do keratin treatment.
Oh, okay.
So you do a thing.
And third of all, yes, I straighten it.
I just like blow it out.
Right, right, right.
I won't.
I refuse.
That's not going to be me.
I hope it's perfect.
This is very new that it started doing this.
Everyone's confused.
You mean it started curling?
Yes, I don't have curly hair.
That's clearly the case.
It's really cute.
Do you feel weird?
I mean, I had stick straight hair, you know, like stick straight when I was a kid.
And then, like when I hit puberty, like it got you know what we call a jufro, which is like half curly, half straight, like curly underneath but like straight on the outside.
Hard to do something.
Very hard.
Yeah.
And then I just had like hippie chick hair, you know, even when I was on curb.
I don't even remember what they did with it, but it was just.
I mean yeah, not a lot.
It was just like, kind of, I don't know.
But then it kind of later in life started curling.
And I mean, I'm through menopause, so that must be it.
This is my, this is my wise hair.
Can't you tell?
But I think I look like a 1930s child.
You know, like those, like, Clara Bow pictures.
No, it looks cute.
I mean, honestly, it does kind of look like you have a perm.
I mean, in a good way.
She's going back to the 80s.
A body wave.
It's not.
If you use larger rods.
A friend of mine, I mean, I had to.
You could be the before picture.
I literally... I have a friend who... It was kind of a new friend we met, like, as adults.
And she's got this really awesome curly hair.
And she...
I think she was just waiting till we were close enough for her to ask, what do you use in your hair?
To which the answer was, I don't use anything.
I don't know.
And she suggested what she uses.
And I think it was her way of being, like letting you know like yeah, you don't need to look like that.
And so now, when I get out of it and I learned, if you have curly hair, you can't just take a towel and be like no, I didn't.
That's what I've been doing.
No, you have to scrunch.
Yeah.
Otherwise it gets too frizzy.
Yeah.
So now I scrunch and then this stuff that she told me to buy, I put a little and I go like that.
It looks good.
He likes how it looks like the next day when it's standing on end.
I look like Einstein.
Big and crazy.
If you look at her Instagram and you scroll, there's a handful of times where it's just like Einstein.
And she looks, I think it's like very punk rock.
Very wise.
And a little bit, you know, artistic and a little bit badass.
And I'm like...
Just let it go all the way.
My grandmother and my mother both had a really, really distinct white stripe.
Really?
I don't color my hair.
So I've started to get what I can tell will be my white, which I'm very excited about.
You're ready for it?
I'm totally ready.
Anyway.
Okay, enough about my hair in particular.
I would like us to get from Florida to Los Angeles.
Okay.
Well, I mean, you also wanted to get from Florida.
Yeah, I did.
I did.
I just, you know, I was working at Universal Studios and bartending at night.
In Orlando.
In Orlando to save money to move.
And then at some point, I packed up my Toyota Tercel and I drove across the country with my ex-boyfriend who was driving me crazy.
At that time, was he your ex?
Yes.
And I was like, you can't go.
And he said, I've never been out of Florida.
This is my chance to leave Florida.
And I was like, yeah, boy.
Okay.
And it was a long car drive.
It was a long car drive.
And then we were so confused when we got here because...
In Florida, you know, the highways, they are, there are a lot of toll booths.
Yeah.
So you're always paying tolls, you know.
And then when we got here and we were trying to get, when we were trying to get onto one of the freeways, it said meter on.
Mm-hmm.
So we're like digging through, looking for quarters.
And we're like, where do you put the quarters?
People are honking.
It's like, we're paying our toll.
Just give us a second.
At some point we said, okay, we're just going to have to gun it.
I mean, we're going to get a ticket.
I don't know.
I can't find out where to put the money in.
It didn't make sense to me.
So it was definitely a culture shock when I moved here.
Did you have a plan of like, what did you know about LA at the time?
It was just like, I'm going to show up.
I had a plan.
I had a job at the Intercontinental Hotel in downtown.
So I had a bartending job.
There was a plan.
That was a little plans.
That was good.
And I had...
Two friends that lived here.
So that was great.
Actor friends.
Yeah.
One was a professional extra.
Okay.
And his boyfriend.
Okay.
Well, I can't say that they had strong careers.
No, but they were people that you knew.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
My best friends.
Right, right.
And so it was the three of us, you know.
So I bartended for a long time, and I've told this story a few times, but that's where I met one of Phil Hartman's sisters.
She was at, she came to the hotel and she was sitting at the bar.
We were talking and she said, I want to go to the Groundlings.
Because that's where my brother got his start.
Oh, my God.
And I said, what's the groundlings and who's your brother?
And she told me, you know.
So you didn't know?
No.
Wow.
So she said that, you know, Phil Hartman started there doing stand-up and sketch.
He was also a very good artist, she said.
So after that, I went to the first groundlings. show that I could on my day off.
I was so inspired by them.
All I wanted to do was take a class there, but I didn't have enough money.
I didn't even have a refrigerator.
I didn't realize that some apartments don't come with refrigerators here.
Strange in Los Angeles.
But all I did was talk about the wanting to take a class and For my birthday, my regulars and the other waitstaff chipped in to buy my first Groundlings class.
Wow.
And that's how it all began.
That's unbelievable, though.
I mean... Yeah, it's pretty crazy.
Yeah.
And then was that kind of your in to Groundlings and then you were kind of in that system?
Yes.
Yes.
So Lisa Kudrow was my first teacher.
She was, it was right before she got friends.
So she was on mad about you, which I was starstruck.
I was like, my teacher is on television.
Like you were, when I called my sister, I'm like, you are not going to believe it.
But she, and Lisa was so funny and so smart and so quick.
I was so inspired by her.
Um, And just all the people I mean, when I was going through the school.
That's when Sherry O'Terry and Will Ferrell were in the company.
And I would just watch every show every weekend.
Wow.
Yeah.
How long were you there?
Oh, my God.
Well, it takes a long, it takes a while to get through.
Yeah.
It probably took me six years to get through the classes.
And then, like I said, I was in the Sunday company.
So you're in the Sunday company before they ask you.
You're invited to the main company.
And that's where it usually goes off track for people, because there are only 30 members of the Groundlings.
So they can't invite someone to be a member until somebody else steps down.
And it's a very, it's a very democratic system.
It's run by the people for the people.
And yeah.
Yeah.
So you always have people watching you and talking about your writing and your performance.
And it can be stressful.
Yeah.
A lot of people audition for SNL and things like that from there.
Did you ever audition?
Was that?
That, I was dying to audition for SNL, but I did audition for Mad TV probably three times.
And, as a matter of fact, when I got Curb I was sort of heartbroken by Mad TV because they had said don't supposedly to my agent, don't let her take another job, because we want her.
That doesn't make sense, because then why don't you just hire her?
And then I auditioned for Curb and Curb was just supposed to be a one hour special.
So it didn't feel like it was going to change my life, you know.
And then it became a series.
And then I, you know, I would think back and think, oh, I'm so glad I didn't go to SNL or TV.
And you you managed to also have a child somewhere in here.
So chronologically, you're in L.A.
Right.
I was going to say, so you're in L.A.
When did you and I know you're not married to the father of your daughter right now, but when did you like?
When did when?
When did your personal life happen?
Yeah.
So, yeah, I was single when I started Curb.
Mm hmm.
Wow.
That I met Paul Young, my first husband, because he was on the board at the Growlings.
So I was on the board at the Growlings.
And so I don't know, probably season, probably between season three and season four, something like that on Curb.
But that's also...
It's an indicator of how long we would go in between seasons.
Right, because— I was never pregnant on the show.
Amazing.
No.
So, yeah.
Got married, had a baby.
Right.
And that didn't work out 100%.
And that baby is a grown-up now.
No, she's 20.
And that's, you started a company with her.
Yes.
That's the young.
That's the young.
Because I was like, oh, Heinz and young because it's her daughter.
It's the younger Heinz.
But no, her last name is, I just put it together.
Yeah.
Oh, it's funny that you.
It takes her a minute sometimes.
I like that.
No, but I like that idea too.
Made a different story.
So you started a company which I know from having an 18-year-old that he's much more savvy about everything in the universe, meaning like I don't know anything.
I don't even know how to like put my clothes on without him being like.
Why did you put your sock on that way?
Ew.
So you decided to start a company with a young person who's very savvy.
Did you know you wanted to start this?
Was it something that she wanted to do?
How did it come about, especially as a family junction?
Yeah.
I was... started to get so sad thinking about her leaving.
And I thought, well, how can I keep her?
How can I keep her close?
Something that, you know, she'd have to talk to me.
That's why Jonathan started this podcast with me.
You were ready to move out and grow up.
And then Kat and I you know I really we wanted to do something that didn't use single-use plastics.
So just being, I'll say, in the beauty world, which I'm not necessarily, but I do have a history in it.
Yes, you do.
So I really pay attention to products, and the beauty industry is really bad about single-use plastics.
So Kat, my daughter and I wanted to to try to do a company that didn't um use single-use plastics but made um a line that we both like, which wasn't easy, but it was great.
You know, because we have um, we have body creams and we have candles, and We have four different scents and scent stories, and you know they all smell amazing.
And so we had to agree on what it's going to look like, what it's going to smell like, what it's going to feel like.
Who is in charge of marketing and sort of the visibility of it?
Because, like I said, my 18 year old, like he knows everything about social media and like the way to do things,
Like he has a comment about everything that we post and everything.
Like, is that part of the conversations or does that get left to grownups?
It's a lot of grown-ups.
Also Because I want to believe that you can just unleash it on the 20-year-old and be like do it?
See what happens.
That's what I thought.
Yeah.
But I guess it's like anything.
If you have to do it, it's like...
It's different than if you're just posting something because you love it.
Because it's your life.
But if it's a job, then it's a different vibe.
So we have some different people.
And Kat.
Kat's a really good photographer.
Oh, that's right.
She's also very beautiful.
I wish she would be, you know, out there more for it.
But she gets a little shy.
But she's...
She's never wanted to pursue acting or on-camera stuff?
Well, you know, she really hasn't until lately.
And we've been going to different premieres and different projects and she's very inspired by the people here.
Hmm.
It's creative.
It's fun.
You know, we leave the premiere and she'll say, oh, my gosh, Kristen Wiig was so funny in that.
Oh, my God.
You know, and so we have a really fun talk about it.
So it's it's interesting.
I'm interested to see what happens.
I want to ask one more thing before we move on.
You and I have a shared O.J. story that revolves around a bar.
Yours might be more interesting than mine, but I don't know.
I was in Ireland during the OJ when he escaped in the... Oh, the chase.
The chase.
The slow, slow chase.
I happened to be working in Ireland and I was at the bar.
I was at the bar.
I didn't drink until I was an older person.
And so I remember I was like, because you could drink at 18, I was in the bar.
And no one cared about this American... guy oj simpson right but we were like oh my god what's happening oj simpson is driving in the fort bronco anyway that's my oj bar story tell us your oj bar story okay well why so i was working at the intercontinental hotel downtown and that's where the oj jurors were sequestered and i forget what floor they were on but we weren't allowed to go to that floor We weren't allowed to tell anybody they were there.
Lord knows they needed a drink.
Oh, they did.
No, one of them, you know, etched help me in their window and you get to see it.
And I was like, what is going on on that floor?
But they were going crazy.
Yeah.
I mean, that was word at the bar.
They were like we had a pianist that would go and she would play for them, but it had to be, you know, on their floor and completely private.
And she was like, they are going nuts.
They can't, they're not going to make it.
So it was very interesting.
And then, I mean, I hate to toot my own horn, but I will.
I was so good at working at the hotel as a bartender.
Sometimes I'd fill in as a waitress.
One time I did room service that my manager said During that trial asked me to pack a bag and keep it packed by my door.
Because when they got news that a verdict was coming in, I was to drive straight to the hotel and check in.
I think it was the first time I stayed in a really nice hotel.
So I get to stay in a room.
And then you know, later on make drinks for people and deliver some chicken to somebody's room, which was also a very weird experience doing room service.
I only did it one.
That's really funny.
It was like, hi, can I come in?
And this guy's in a bathrobe and it was just like, what am I doing?
That's very funny.
This is a strange dynamic in somebody's room.
And I didn't know how to set up the thing.
And I was just like, I'm, you know, it's my first day.
I love that.
One of the reasons that I find your story such an interesting trajectory like from you know, from Florida, and from you know the way you grew up and you know beauty school.
And then, coming to LA you, you ended up being introduced by Larry David to you know part of one of the most famous dynasties in this country, you know, and you ended up marrying one of the Kennedys, as it were.
Um, I'm wondering, there's and I don't mean to romanticize, you know cause, of course there's like this.
You know, I think, at least for my generation and possibly yours there's a real, like fantasy element to certain aspects of American culture.
Yeah.
And the Kennedys was one of them.
You know, like I grew up my parents would you know?
Tell me where they were the day they found out, Bobby Kennedy was shot.
And the day they found out where, you know, like, and my father stopped voting after JFK was shot.
Like my father, like it was impactful in my home.
It was like, he was the hope, the voice, you know, especially for liberals.
And my parents were first generation Americans.
And like, anyway, it's like, I grew up with this like myth of the Kennedy.
Right.
So, um, I'm just thinking of your story and like where you came from.
And then like to be, you know, obviously to like make it in L.A. is awesome.
And I don't want it to be like you're defined by the person you're dating.
However, when you're introduced to a Kennedy, like what was that like?
Like what did it feel like to sort of consider yourself like as part of that world?
Well, it's interesting because I did not grow up that way.
Like my family...
I don't remember my parents ever mentioning the Kennedys.
We never talked politics.
You know, if I asked my mom who she was voting for, she'd say none of my business.
So it was just like, oh, we...
You don't speak of politics.
Why do you think that was?
I mean, you're also from a part of Florida that's basically the South.
Yes.
So it could have been also that there were progressive tendencies that were burgeoning in young people.
Yes.
I'm not sure.
And I'm not sure if it's because, you know, my mom.
But she was very or she is, I should say.
You know, yes, Southern manners.
And, you know, there are some things you don't talk about with people.
And politics is one of them.
So I didn't have an idea of who the Kennedys were.
I really, the only thing I had known about them was what I learned in school and was like, okay.
You know, pretty amazing people.
Complicated.
There's some complexity in there.
Some criminal issues with certain people.
Yes, we got some.
Yes, it's a big family.
Yeah, yeah.
So then, yeah, when I met Bobby, Bobby and Larry had been friends for a long time.
And I just met Bobby.
I want to say in passing, you know, it wasn't a moment in time where I was like I just thought oh,
You know, he was really nice.
He gave me his beanie, like knit cap, because we were actually on a ski lift.
And he said, you don't have a hat?
I said, no.
I was with Larry.
We're going to go to this fundraiser.
No intention of skiing.
And then we get there and Bobby's like, okay, what size shoe do you wear?
We got these skis.
Next thing you know, Larry and I have skis on and we're headed to the ski lift.
And Bobby said, well, why don't you have anything on your head?
I go, I didn't even.
And he said, here, take this.
That's intimate to give someone a beanie.
I said, now you're going to be cold.
He goes, I'll be fine.
I know.
And I was just like, who is the guy in pleated khakis that just gave me a beanie?
Like, that's very nice.
You know, meanwhile, Larry's like bundled up, like, of course you're not getting my beanie.
Why wouldn't you bring one if you wanted one?
You know, it was just, it was just another day.
I'm surprised you didn't take the one that Bobby gave you.
Me too.
Me too.
And then you know I've been, then I really Bobby, was just an acquaintance for years and uh, you were both married, you both got divorced.
He lived in New York, I lived here, and and then I, and then at some point I saw that he was going through divorce.
I was going through a divorce and this fundraiser was happening, you know, at the same time every year and I thought oh, it'll be interesting to talk to him, because it's hard going through a divorce.
Did you have a little feeling when I met, when I?
I mean that's when I feel like I really met him, because I'm a divorced lady and sometimes, like you're divorced and you're kind of like everyone's a potential target for my love.
Who can I take prisoner next?
Sorry well, it was.
We was like a, it was like a, it was like a lightning strike.
I choose you.
Sorry okay lucky, Come with me.
Yeah, it was just like a, I don't know.
There was an energy that just struck me when I saw him.
We connected in a way that was just like, oh, I see you.
I see you.
And it was interesting.
But still, I lived in LA.
He lived in New York.
And it was just, it was what it was for a while.
We were just a long distance, interesting romance.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then did he end up moving out here?
Yes.
Then he asked me to marry him.
Still living apart.
Yes.
I love that.
That's so grown up.
Look, this distance thing is a problem.
Let's solve it with marriage.
Well, yes, I guess.
But I said, well, I don't, you know, it would make more sense if we lived in the same state.
You're so conventional.
And he has kids?
He has six kids.
Six?
Yeah, he had two kids with his first marriage.
People are complicated.
Yeah, yeah.
Four with his second marriage.
And so what's the age difference between, let's say, his youngest and Kat?
His youngest is 22.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, they're pretty.
Oh, so same.
Okay, I mean, same arena.
Yeah, yeah.
Got it.
Okay.
So you got married.
He moved here.
You got married.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then as time went by, you know, he's an environmental attorney.
I remember early on having a conversation with him, asking him why he wasn't in politics.
Right.
Because his whole family.
Yeah.
He felt like he could get he could accomplish more if he wasn't in politics.
He could sue polluters.
He can hold people responsible in a way that he wouldn't have been able to do.
And he's done a lot of tremendous, tremendous things in that capacity.
Larry said not to date him.
Well, you know, so Bobby talked to Larry, which is kind of hilarious.
Why would he feel the need to ask him for his He's also traditional, clearly.
Yeah, for his, you know, approval.
Your hand in dating.
Yeah.
And Larry was like, yeah, I mean.
And then when I talked to Larry and I said so it does look like Bobby and I are going to start seeing each other.
He's like, that's a terrible idea.
It's never going to last.
I was like, okay.
But I couldn't tell you there's not one.
There's not one name that if I had said that person you know, George Clooney Larry, would be like that's a terrible idea.
It's never going to last.
You know, it doesn't matter who it was.
There's never a world in which Larry would be like, that sounds great.
Because Larry hates love or Larry's territorial over you.
Larry doesn't like people.
Yeah.
And he's pretty sure... I totally get it.
It makes total sense to me.
Yeah.
And probably looking back, it's like... He's a misanthrope.
He's a lovable misanthrope.
Bobby and I were in his orbit, but two different... I mean, this is a shidduch for the ages.
This is a match for the ages that Larry made, though.
I mean, he's a matchmaker.
He needs two more, right?
He needs two more to get a place in heaven.
So...
You know, I also.
We can totally cut out that like for me.
I have like a princess fantasy about the Kennedys.
And clearly Cheryl was like, not so much.
No, no, but you should leave that in because a lot of people feel that like JFK Jr.
Like that.
Oh, yeah.
I mean, I grew up with that as like, this is it.
It's like, this is ours.
He's ours.
Like my parents had.
Anyway, it's like a whole thing.
My parents are New Yorkers.
It's like a thing.
Anyway, but the second level of like, not just like oh, you're like from where you came from, like I'm meeting a Kennedy, like whatever.
Yeah.
You are now married to someone who's running for president of the United States.
I've never spoken to someone in my life.
I've never gotten to be this close to someone who's in this enormously complicated situation.
That's a huge change in your relationship, meaning.
Yes.
It's not just like, oh, you're a public person.
You're an actress.
You can handle it.
This is like next level.
It's next level.
Yeah.
Yes.
It was a it was a long conversation.
I mean, it it was maybe more than one conversation.
It was probably over the course of four or five months.
Wow.
Where it just I kept thinking maybe he'll change his mind right, because you don't want to be the one to be like no don't, i don't want you to like, that's his.
If that, if he feels that strongly, especially right after all that right, so he, but you have to get your head around.
Yeah, he it.
It definitely is his calling, like he feels it in a very uh Ancestral.
Yeah.
I mean... So he feels it, and this is what he is meant to do.
And so that is really... Yeah, but it's not like, honey, I'd like to go back to law school.
Can you, like, work a couple extra shifts at the dry cleaner so I can become a lawyer?
No.
This is like I'm gonna thrust our life.
I mean it's thrusting your life.
Everything about, I mean everything.
About you is open for the public, right?
And him, you know?
It is.
It is.
I would have never in a million years imagined that this would be my life.
Just because I've never been interested in politics.
I'm not really that person that's excited to go anywhere.
Listen to a lot of people talk about politics for five hours.
That's the name of the game right now.
And I'm just like, oh my God.
Okay.
There's very few jokes.
Not a lot of jokes.
They're not hilarious people usually.
Sorry, politicians that are listening that are like, I actually am funny.
But if you're comparing the groundlings and like professional comedians.
Going to work at Curb versus like going to work on the campaign trail.
Well, that is that's the thing.
It's like I am from a world of comedy where we're doing, you know, bits about Pickles pickleball, or you know your glasses or your hair.
And these bits could go on for two hours.
No, this is like the real world.
And now you're talking about national security.
Oh my gosh.
And as actors, we literally play make-believe for a living.
Right.
We are paid to pretend and dress up.
And this is like the realest thing there is, is that your husband is running for the presidency.
No, it is so real.
It is very surreal.
And sometimes I feel like oh, this is like a scene from a movie, because we'll be dressed up, you know, dressed up, walking through strange hallways, like you're always going down weird hallways that nobody's ever seen or heard of, and you know, security is with us, and it's like you walk when they say walk, because you don't know what's going on out there, so it's just a, it's a different world, and you're like wow, and then somebody will open a door and they'll be like are you ready?
And you'll say yes, I don't know what the question really is, but yes, open the door.
And then there were 500 people there waiting to say hello and to meet Bobby.
And it's just like, wow, it's interesting.
It's also interesting.
You know your role on Curb.
Your Enthusiasm is, you know, as you said, kind of supplying the support for a very high profile character, right.
And in some ways, I mean, for any politician, they're all playing a part, right?
And you are also in this position of, like you know, I mean, I also think of you as this like spontaneous, funny person who's also trained and extremely gifted at being funny, saying whatever you want.
And you're now in a place where you have to be so careful.
You have to consider your words.
What is that like?
It's really, sometimes it's hard.
I mean, the first big interview I did was with the New York Times.
Yes, I read it.
And that was very hard, because I have to try to think about yeah, I want to say something flip, or you know, but I don't because it's not going to, It's not going to land.
No.
And there's always going to be someone looking to find fault.
That's the position that you and your husband are in.
Right.
Right.
So you can't So sometimes.
Even in that interview I remember she asked me had I talked to any of the previous first ladies.
Like, yeah, we're all in a WhatsApp group.
Well, that's... And I...
I wanted to say, oh, I just got a text from Melania.
Yeah, you're channeling Lady Bird.
But I didn't because no matter what you say, it's not, some people will be mad.
So I have to just like, okay, just take a beat.
You know, it's a fine line to write, still find the comedy in the, fun in situations.
Are there those moments personally, like is there has to be some way that you know you can sort of diffuse, you know, when it's just the two of you, right?
Like there has to be.
I want to believe that there's humor there, meaning that you can joke and laugh about all the like craziness of the structure of bureaucracy and politics.
Well yeah, I mean that.
Listen, it is like the meets Modern Family, because I've.
Because Heinz and Young is hilariously, a relaxation line that we had been working on for a few years and it just happened to launch right after Bobby announced.
So Bobby, so me and my sister Becky and my brother Mike and Kat, we're working on Heinz and Young and It's your own project.
Light a candle at the end of the day.
Just relax.
And then Bobby, you know it's about, you know you're walking to the living room and they're talking about Russia, and you know, or whatever.
Or, you know, you look at your Alexa and you're like, don't say it in front of me.
And, you know, it's just like, what is happening?
But Bobby and I have a, we have a lot of fun together.
And one of the things that I don't.
It's hilarious, but also in the moment, it's not as funny as you might think.
But a lot of times we'll be at a big dinner table and somebody will be a low talker.
And they are talking about something very serious.
And it's just like.
You know, when I was younger, my father said to me, and he said one thing that I never want you to forget
And Bobby and I are like, wait, did you say your father?
And they're like, yes.
And on his deathbed, he said, yes.
And we're like, and then, you know, at some point you're just like, oh, wow.
Okay.
Yes.
And then we, you know, it's like, did you, did you get the story?
It's like, wow.
Oh, that's funny.
So we had.
There are those little moments that you, that are just you can't even imagine till.
You're in them.
But you know, it's a whole night of that.
It's not just, that's not just one moment of the night.
That's like.
A lot of the night where you're just like, I can't.
Will you sit next to the low talker for just 20 minutes because I need an ear break.
I'm like, I'm dying over here.
You're leaning.
Yeah, I am.
I'm leaning like with my ear like to his mouth.
I want to ask another question.
Yeah.
And you don't have to say who it is.
Have you ever met like a really, really like important, like political person?
And you don't know who they are.
I was going to say you don't know who they are.
But like I would imagine again, like I know how your brain works,
Like, there has to be, like, absurdity to some of the situations that you find yourself in.
Yes.
Right?
It has to be like Veep.
The Veep person had, like, the assistant whispering in their ear who the heck is.
And then sometimes you get it wrong and you, like…
Right.
Well, and also, you can't laugh your way out of things, which for me, that's always the way I get out of things.
So I guess that's what I was asking.
Like are there any situations where you know you're kind of needing to call on other resources, right?
Because you cannot use humor.
Well, definitely when you're in another country and you don't speak the language.
You go to other countries.
We did.
You've had to go to other countries.
Oh, we've been around the world.
Wait, wait.
Okay, so this I don't know.
Oh, yeah.
It's part of his life, his job, the presidency.
Well, no.
Just the lifestyle.
We haven't been traveling around the world for— his presidency run.
But you know, I just didn't know if you traveled during that time.
I know that no no, but that's a it's a fair question.
Yeah, but it's too, you have to look like you know what you're doing.
Yeah, you have to look what you um, but Bobby has dedicated his life to clean water and clean water around the world got it so with Waterkeeper Alliance.
So you know, we went to Bhutan.
We've We've been to India.
We've been to, I mean, you name it, we've probably been there.
And you are then, you have to be presentable and you have to interact in all these situations.
Right.
So even in you know someplace like Bhutan, where you didn't really you don't really know the, I'm going to Google.
Cool.
Culture is very sweet.
I'm looking on a map.
I know where it is roughly.
I just want to see on a map.
Yeah.
Got it.
Okay.
Eastern Himalayan edge.
That's where it is.
And we you know, sometimes somebody, you know a prime minister of a country.
You don't speak their language.
We'll want to serve you lunch, which is very nice, but for them, if they use their hands, it's an even bigger honor.
So it's like, thank you very much.
And I don't eat meat, so that's always, you know.
Some places don't understand that.
No, and it's just something with a giant bone sticking out.
Thank you.
You know, so it takes a lot to not, you know, go to do a comedy bit.
Yes.
It's like not the place.
It's a tough audience.
It's a tough audience.
And I'm not saying that that was our experience in Bhutan.
But in Bhutan... Yeah, yeah.
But this could happen anywhere potentially where your normal go-to would be like... Thank you.
One of my friends said, and maybe if I write a book, this will be the title said when in doubt, curtsy.
Because it's like, that's not bad.
We're just like, hello, courtesy.
I don't know what I'm doing here.
No, but in Bhutan, we went to this coronation.
I think it was a coronation.
It was a celebration nonetheless.
The king was there.
And it was an all-day thing, and one of my friends was there and he, you know, he said he was getting really hungry and they were serving rice and you just put your made a little cup with your hands and which he, you know, he was watching everybody else and he's like all right, got it.
And then you just, you know, eat it out of your hand cup.
But it's moments like that that are really interesting.
You know, it's fascinating to see other cultures and to meet other people.
But there are funny things that you can't really.
Yeah, be funny about it.
I mean, like practical stuff, though, like you're in a country, you're with the king like you are.
Yes, if you will.
And I assume if you're with the king, you're at the kingdom palace?
Yeah, like an outdoor.
Yes, but there are definitely, yes.
Are you staying at the palace?
You're staying at a hotel next to the palace?
There's palace guest quarters?
There's the palace.
There's the Bhutan palace.
Yeah, we didn't stay at the palace.
Fascinating that you're like getting exposed to things that you would never see otherwise like, so that's like truly fascinating, but like, practically like, for example, I don't eat gluten and that can be a tough adjustment.
Yeah you, for example, if you go to Texas, you know yes, if I go to somewhere and I don't eat meat yes like, and you're hungry, but like they're like, what do you do?
Uh, you keep a pack of peanuts in your purse, And I'm not kidding.
You have to.
Yeah.
Because what are the odds that you're going to be able to?
You know, whatever somebody's serving in the moment, you just have to be self-reliant.
I mean, if nothing else, I learned about Bhutan today.
Is there a king in Bhutan?
The palace was built in 1857.
It's one of the oldest monarchies in the world.
And the Bhutan Foundation is hiring a senior program officer and an accounts officer.
So if anyone is looking for a position in Bhutan... It's very beautiful.
It looks beautiful.
You can't even go... You can't visit Bhutan without a guide.
Oh.
Yeah, it's very mountainous remote yeah, and yeah, and so if you're just a tourist, you might have trouble.
One of the questions that i hate that you're asked which i'm not going to ask is like what would it be like if you became the first lady?
It's a dumb question because we're not there and you don't have to think about that right now, but the question that i have is a little meta.
Yeah, I wonder if, like when you're alone, when you're like in bed, like if you ever let yourself go there, just like, even for like a second, like do you let yourself go there or do you really have to suspend disbelief?
And when you go there, is it like a scene in V?
Well, it's really weird, because there are Parts of it that I can imagine, because we already are living it.
You know, I'm – I've been to – Lack of privacy.
Lack of privacy.
But even you know dinners, where there's protocol and you know you – you have to know who's at the table and you have to know what you can and can't talk about.
So we were already doing that.
So I can imagine that.
What I can't imagine is just like what is the day to day, like at the end of the day, when you're like I'm going to hit the hay.
What is there a What does that look like?
Is there, I mean, of course there's a room.
Right.
Is it like a giant room?
Is it a giant room with a bed with you know where you close the curtains of your bed because the room is so big and people are watching you.
Or is it just like, or is it, and is it carpeted?
Like how long has the carpet been in there?
This thing has been around for a long time.
Like what is it?
What does it smell like inside?
What does it feel like to have that as your home is I think kind of the question, right?
Like not just like.
Right.
You're not just spending the night for a few nights.
Right.
That seems like that's how it would feel.
That's where you have to live now.
It's hard to imagine telling my friend, yeah, just stop over.
Right.
Come up to my room and we'll watch Netflix.
Right.
And then the Secret Service forever.
Right.
Like, that's a big change.
There already, you've talked a bit about some of the security stuff.
I mean there's also so much around, obviously the Kennedy family in general, because of you know two very, very public and you know devastating assassinations in the Kennedy family.
But you know beyond that, you know for anyone who's you know in the presidency conversation like there's security concerns.
But, you know, you had a very a very scary experience with an intruder.
But I was also really struck by how you've talked about it in terms of, like there's a matter of factness about it that you sort of have to take on.
Can you talk a little bit about that?
And I'm assuming that you've experienced some of that as a public person yourself, you know even separate from this.
How is it different?
Well, it's intense.
Hmm.
Because, as a public person, in the public eye, I've never felt And maybe it's naive, but I never felt.
You never felt like somebody was coming to get you.
If anything, maybe somebody wanted to talk to you or get close to you or um, but with Bobby yeah, it's intense because um, there are people that want to hurt him and we've seen it, um.
So it is really a strange feeling to be watching the news and you're watching the news break that somebody Early on you know one of Bobby's events was arrested because he and armed.
And I'm watching it before I can even talk to Bobby because Bobby got there and did the speech.
So it's a strange world.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then, and then when I was home and I was seeing this once again, it's Veep meets Modern Family.
I'm home.
I'm in my, my office doing Instagram live with my friend.
And her handle is momlovesbaking.
My friend from, from Tallahassee that I went to high school with.
We're just talking about Heinz and Young and She's going to get a big bump after this episode.
But she's great.
And I look outside and I see a guy I don't recognize coming in the backyard.
And I stopped and I was looking out.
She said, are you okay?
And I said, well, I... And I'm watching because I'm not sure.
Is this the time when I say...
I got to go.
You're always afraid to overreact in that situation.
You don't want to be that lady.
Right.
So I'm watching it.
And then I watched security, you know, take him down.
And somebody in the living room is calling 911.
And I'm like, I think it's actually under control.
I mean, I guess your definition of under control has to shift in your life where it's like okay, I don't know.
I mean, it would be easy to be so stressed every day about all of it you know and to be fearful about of the unknown.
Like, I don't know what's going to happen.
I don't know what any of this is going to look like or feel like.
So I have to, I spend a lot of time Breathing through it, letting it go.
You know, having staying close to my family and grounded that way, you know where we'll look at each other and say this is crazy.
It's surreal.
It's surreal.
Yeah.
I mean, I'm amazed that you can have the peace of mind in that moment.
To like, did you finish the Instagram live?
Oh, we did.
Yeah.
We wrapped it up.
Show goes on.
That's show business, baby.
I'm curious is there anything in particular that you've adapted, either for self-care or just for general wellness?
Is there anything you've adopted in this new phase of life?
Meaning, Have you taken up a new hobby?
Is there a certain exercise?
Like is there anything in particular that you've found is helpful, as you, you know, kind of enter this very public phase of life in such a different way than your previous public life.
Well, this is going to sound like I'm just promoting Heinz and Young, which you know is also a promotion for Heinz and Young.
But because our we have, you know, four different scents and I've kind of trained myself with this one.
It's called Capri Honeymoon because we did go to Capri on our honeymoon.
But I wait till the end of the day.
I have a I have a candle by my bedside and I put on my pajamas and then I light the candle.
And it's it's like an indicator to me like you need to whatever you're doing, you need to stop.
Remember when he wasn't running for president and you were just on your honeymoon and it seemed like you were a princess.
Right.
I was like, woohoo.
So it just, I just have to keep reminding myself.
And I do yoga.
Yoga is very helpful too.
Just, and in yoga, you know, you're.
What kind of yoga do you do?
Numb.
Regular?
Like poses and asanas.
Okay, got it.
So.
But you know, when you're holding a pose that's really uncomfortable and you feel like oh, my leg is shaking and I don't want to do it.
But you keep breathing and you know it's going to.
Moments are going to come when you're not doing the pose anymore.
So I have.
So it's good for me to do yoga and to just be reminded that sometimes I'm going to have to do something really hard.
And I can get through it, and there'll be a moment after that hard thing that hopefully won't be as hard.
What is the when you light the candle?
What what is the self-talk?
I mean, is it similar?
Yes, it is like it's interesting because it's not only at the little flicker of the candle, because that's visually, you're seeing it and it's glowy and it feels good, but to smell it it's like okay, the talk is, everything's already happened.
That's going to happen today.
So there's nothing you can do from this moment till you wake up.
That's going to change the course of your life can do is relax, take a minute, you know.
Breathe in um which is hard, you know, because sometimes you want to, and sometimes I do like pick up the phone and see what's what news is breaking in the world.
Is there something I need to know about?
But most of the time it doesn't matter if I know the news is breaking or not.
Most of the time I'm curious where did you learn this?
Because, just based on what you've said a little bit about your parents, I can't imagine and many of us were not raised with this sort of like breath and awareness and mindfulness consciousness.
When did you get it?
You know, is this something you learned in therapy?
Is it something that you just picked up?
Like, where did you get that sort of notion?
Because it's such a simple thing to be able to say, like, I don't have to keep working on this.
Right.
Like, I get to sleep.
I get to rest.
Like I've been thinking about.
I was recently having some difficulty sleeping and the notion that, like I deserve a break.
My brain needs to shut down.
Like, I deserve a rest.
It's hard to shut your brain down.
Where did it come from for you?
Well, I think it started in acting classes.
Mm-hmm, because I remember there was one that he really focused on relaxation, which I was excited about.
But I understood later when I would start going in to audition.
You know, you feel your adrenaline, you feel your blood pressure go up right before you walk in to audition.
And that's nobody wants to see a nervous actor.
And then you're just you're not going to hire a nervous actor.
Just built a career on a chair.
You go into auditions, you're just like crying through it.
Like if you cast me, I'll be fine on the day.
But, you know, as a producer, you can't.
It's hard to cast a nervous actor in an audition because it is very stressful.
But on set is even more stressful.
So I paid attention at that time.
Like, how do you keep calm in a very stressful situation?
And then I've recently really been revisiting it.
Well, there's a lot of overlap between not only like improv and and acting um the mindfulness.
But you, you present and you know this is the first time i've ever had the pleasure of sitting down with you but you present as extremely grounded, extremely focused, extremely calm, and that you know.
I'm not saying that you don't have a motor running a thousand miles an hour in the background, but the way that you come across is, isn't that?
She could be the first lady.
She has to seem like she's composed.
I have to keep it together.
I'm going to lose it as soon as I walk out.
I mean, people are allowed to let off that steam, but to be able to, you know, have that presence.
So I always find it interesting between the skills of improv and how do they translate to the rest of life.
Yeah.
Well, I did learn a lot with improv, because the thing that you learn I mean the things that I had learned previously to the groundlings as an actor was know the script word by word, know everything about the script, so that when you start doing improv and there was no script and they say you just have to trust yourself.
It's like, ew, boy, I don't think so.
I mean, this doesn't make sense to me.
And then you learn that there's no wrong answer.
Whatever you're going to say next is the right thing.
It might not be funny.
It might not even add to the scene, but nobody's going to get up and walk out because you just said the kitchen's closed.
You know they might not laugh and your scene partner may be like okay well, I thought we were at the baseball game, but okay um, you know but.
And then you justify and your scene partner justifies and, and so the thing that I learned was just to not and I can't do this all the time, of course, but to not second guess yourself and to not judge yourself for saying whatever you're about to say, to trust yourself that you're not going to say.
I trust myself that I'm not going to say something terrible to somebody that would Be offensive.
Right.
No, but sometimes you're like, what's going to come out of my mouth next?
Well, there's trust.
And you have to control the anxiety or you can't get anything.
Yeah.
Yes.
So it's like, let's be mindful.
Let's be present.
Let's show up.
Yes.
And so you control that.
And then, when I think about bringing it back to shutting your brain down at night, you're like well.
I have to have trust that the day is over that, because you know, when I hear and I have the same experience that my, you know, like when you can't sleep and I can't sleep, put it in the first person what I'm trying to do is like figure something out mentally that I can't.
So I pick up the phone to see if there's news or, but there's nothing there that is going to solve the thing that I'm focused on.
So like, how do I then come back to trust?
And I actually think there's a lot of improv that is related to that like there's an overlap between mindfulness presence, trust and improv and what we learn in any type of healing practice or mindfulness practice.
I think you're right and it is.
It's about trusting right, trusting the universe, and you know it's going to be okay if you are in bed for two hours awake, but not doing anything, Like it's okay.
Nobody's judging you.
Because there's also that feeling that I feel sometimes.
If I'm awake, I should be doing something productive.
That's the narrative about the thing that you felt in the first place that just spirals us.
Yeah. because you brought up the word universe and I like talking about the universe.
Do you feel like there is some sort of like plan that you or some sort of divine intervention that you are on this path, that are experiencing, you know these very, what I'll call just abnormal, because there are only a handful of people that get to have?
Exceptional.
I mean, you've had exceptional experiences.
Yeah.
I do feel like it's.
It's interesting because there's part of you that or one that feels like you are controlling.
You're navigating the boat a little bit, but you're not in control of the waves or the ocean.
So, yeah.
So there's that, that when I start thinking back about my life, it's it feels like I am glad that I was paying attention to signals from the universe at the time, even working at the hotel, and you know.
Meeting Phil Hartman.
Yeah.
And then the Groundlings and then everything in Curb Your Enthusiasm.
I didn't get Mad TV.
I didn't even get to audition for SNL.
And then I'm on Curb and then I meet Bobby.
And then the next thing you know, he's running for president.
And it's like, And you're eating rice out of your hand.
I know you're eating rice out of your hand.
And it's it's, but I, you know, I feel like I try to be receptive to what's coming at me and what's presented to me in life.
I mean, I don't want to sound too, you know, but you might, I mean, do you feel the same way?
I mean, I didn't get married at the Kennedy compound, so... Still waiting.
She wants to know if there are extra cousins.
Are there cousins?
Are there any single cousins?
Well no, I mean also, like you know, John F Kennedy is the first Catholic president.
Like in my family were Jewish.
It was like there was some weird camaraderie, I think, that a lot of immigrants felt with, like...
He did it different.
Like, we're different.
So, like, you know, it's a very kind of different world that we're talking about.
But I think that, you know, it's something that we talk about a lot.
And, you know, what we're talking about, like, the Christian word is providence, right?
Is there providence here?
Are you able to say?
The hand of God, whatever that looks like, you know was always guiding my path.
And you know.
With that though, you have to take the bad with the good meaning.
Like every, you know every trial and every challenge is also included, you know, in that path.
But yeah, I mean, if I, I mean, if I...
No, I wouldn't have drawn.
If I were you, I wouldn't have drawn that line from beauty school at 17 you know to being a famous actor.
Right.
And you know like, respected in your, you know in your profession and known to you know millions of people like for your talent as an actor like that alone.
I mean, you have your very nine lives about this though.
You know, you've had a lot of incredible iterations.
It's really um and if we go metaphysical cause to answer your question, you know obviously totally different um.
But I do think that for me when I look at like small moments.
For example, I met Mayim when our kids were three years old at a shared birthday party that they were friends at.
We were both married to other people.
That was 12 and a half, maybe 13 years ago.
Yeah.
I moved from out away from L.A. back to Toronto.
Then I moved to Oregon.
And this number of things that happened and the way that then we got to these chairs is totally random.
You know, like there was no way that that would have happened.
And the number of things that would have had to happen in order for that to unfold.
To even have this conversation to hear about someone's life was even more peculiar than But like in some of my circles, they're like you're sitting down and having this conversation from some kid.
You know, I'm from Toronto and my friends are most of them, a lot of them still there doing whatever it is that they're doing.
Many of them having really cool experiences.
But just, I never saw that for myself.
This is your Bhutan.
It's your Bhutan.
You can eat rice out of it.
I am full of rice.
And then the other things that you know have aligned beside that to.
You know start a company and to explore that and to be sitting with sometimes, people who have started you know very large, influential organization.
You're like, there's a surreal nature that I could never have imagined.
And I do wonder, I'm like.
Is it Providence?
Is it totally random?
But what I always connect back to is that growing up I was like looking around.
And I never looked around and was like oh, this is for me.
You always thought there was something.
I always thought there was something else.
That's how I felt in Florida.
Although my whole family lives in Florida and I appreciate Florida.
I appreciate the people there.
But when I was growing up, I just felt like hmm, this is this.
I don't think this is where I'm supposed to be.
Wow.
And that's the intuition, when I heard you talk about Florida and you were like oh, I know, I need to go to Los Angeles.
I didn't know where I needed to go, but I knew that I needed to leave in this way.
Like, Corona is an amazing city.
Like, I think it's one of the best cities in the world.
And all my friends not all of them, but majority of my friends.
They went to a college called Western, which is in London Ontario, which is two hours away.
And I was like, I knew so much that I was not going there.
Yeah.
Again, didn't know where else I was going to go.
And a lot of my life is like, I'm not sure where to go.
But then I end up there.
And then... That's where you ended up going to school?
I did not go.
No, I ended up going to Vermont and then out to the West Coast to Victoria Island, British Columbia.
Then from there down to Los Angeles, I did the American Film Institute's conservatory program.
Never would I have thought to do that from there.
But like again, following the sign of like oh, this doesn't feel like something I need to do or where I need to be.
Which is powerful, too, to know what you...
Don't want.
And to be able to move away from it.
That's hard.
It's not always easy.
Because a lot of times it's, you know, it's taking risks.
That's the other thing.
I, for the most part, am okay taking risks.
You know, I don't, because I have faith that I'll make decisions in the moment that are going to be okay.
I will figure it out when the time comes.
But i know people that are paralyzed by risk.
They do not want to take a risk and that is probably part of it.
But that goes back to presence mindfulness, which is another parallel between improv and mindfulness, and spirituality is like you were okay to be, like i'm gonna.
I'm gonna be able to make that decision, which has a huge amount of trust in it, which i admire.
First of all, I don't relate to either of you because I've been stuck in this city since literally since I was two weeks old.
And every time I tried to leave, I ended up staying.
I was supposed to go to Harvard, but I was working on Blossom and I'm just stuck and I'm here.
And I've always like I just I don't relate.
And part of it, I mean, I think there's a risk element, but I don't know.
It's like my destiny was just to wait here for you to move back.
I don't know.
Can I tell Cheryl about how great New York is for you?
I do love New York.
That's my city.
You talk about that you've been stuck here.
Yep.
But there's a totally different version of her.
That you like better.
Everybody knows.
In New York.
I'm a different person there.
Her hair's a little different.
She's like, but she drives differently.
Oh, I drive like this is how I'm supposed to drive.
Everybody understands me here.
But there's a resonance of a place that I think people can gravitate towards.
Yeah.
Can I do a rapid fire with you?
It's very rapid.
It's nothing.
I thought you were going to say we weren't recording.
This is rapid fire breakdown style with Cheryl Hines.
What was your mother right about?
She'd always tell me when I fall in love, to save a little piece for yourself, in case it didn't work out.
I was like, okay.
So that was interesting.
What would your father write about?
Oh, you might not know this.
If you have a leg cramp or a foot cramp, to drink pickle juice.
Super good information.
There's a lot of pickle juice going on in our house and it drives my daughter cat crazy because she'll go.
They'll be like.
Why are you talking about me?
So she'll get a pickle and there's no pickle juice in the jar.
She's like, you guys are disgusting.
Do you get a lot of cramps?
Yes, because have you ever hiked a mountain of Bhutan?
Do they have pickles in Bhutan at the store?
No, they don't.
But in our house, for whatever reason, there's a lot of physical fitness. or whatever.
I mean, Bobby's Bobby will, he hikes every day and he would have me do it too.
If he, yeah.
A friend of mine who adjacently knows him was like, I can arrange a hike for you with him.
Like, is that how you meet with him?
You hike with him?
Sign me up.
Is there like a meetup?
No, I don't know.
Location that promotes your best mental health.
I mean the beach.
Oh yeah.
I probably any beach.
Nice.
You're in the right state.
Do you have a mantra or a saying that you like very much?
My sister and I always say you know, if we're having a tough time, we always say you just got to run through the fire.
You know, there are just tough times that will happen.
And my sister was saying that this is a slow walk.
Yeah, the the uh election.
She's like you're gonna have a slow walk through the fire.
I'm like thank you and you're not wrong.
I love that.
Yeah, just make sure you don't cramp who's been your best spiritual teacher?
My sister.
Moment of best intuition.
Well, this is sort of strange, but kind of circling back to what we were talking about.
When I first moved here and I was getting my headshots done, the photographer, we were talking about life and he said that I had to read The Seven Spiritual Laws of Success by Deepak Chopra.
And I thought, that seems a little crazy, but okay.
And I did.
And I mean, it wasn't something that I usually do if somebody says, oh, you have to read this.
Sure.
Go get it and read it.
But you did.
And it really did change.
There's one, one of the rules in there really changed my life.
Which one?
The rule of detachment.
Because at the time I was, I mean, and I still am an actor, but I felt like I just got this acting job.
My life would be perfect.
So you get so attached to the outcome of every audition that I just needed that job.
And then once I could detach from the idea of you're probably not going to get the job, so just relax, but just go have a great audition.
It changed my life and it changed how I see things, because sometimes I realize I have to let go of the outcome.
Just like It's just like this campaign.
If I really wanted to be first lady and I felt like my whole life would be complete and that's what I was hanging on to.
That's a tough way to live.
And then if that doesn't happen, then what are you left with?
But if your intention is I'm going to see I'm going to enjoy the people that I meet along the way.
I'm going to see this world through this lens that otherwise I would never see it through.
And then, whatever happens, the outcome is what's supposed to have happened, whether you make it or not.
But if you don't make it, it leads you to the next thing.
And if you do, then, you know, that was meant to be.
That's a long answer for a rapid fire.
Sorry.
That's great, though.
It's a great piece of learning.
Who are you most competitive with?
I'm not very competitive.
Oh, well, oh, okay.
No, that's not true.
My friends that play poker, we play poker.
Oh, and you get competitive?
Oh, yeah.
And what do you know to be true?
That change is inevitable.
As much as you don't want things to change, it's going to change.
The final episode of Curb aired last week, but you can watch the whole season, currently available on Max.
Also, if you've never watched Curb Your Enthusiasm and you like me, watch that show.
It's the show for you.
And also check out Heinz and Young.
Oh, yeah.
Can I just say that your listeners can have a discount if they go to Shop Heinz Young.
A lot of people listen to this.
Yeah.
Okay.
And then type in break.
She's like, your five listeners can have a coupon.
And then type in, you know, when you're checking out the Breakdown 20.
Stop it.
That is so generous.
Breakdown 20.
And you too can have a Capri honeymoon with Cheryl Hines.
And at the end of the day, just light your candle and don't worry about a thing.
From our breakdown to the one we hope you never have.
We'll see you next time.
Mayim Bialik's breakdown, she's gonna break it down for you.
She's got a neuroscience PhD or two.
And now she's gonna break down, it's a breakdown, she's gonna break it down.
