Hey SmashBoomBesties!
Producer Anna Wegle here to tell you all about an extra special episode we're bringing you today from the awesome History podcast ForeverAGo!
You'll remember debater Joy Dolo from so many debates, including the spooky Ghosts versus Zombies and the hilarious Halloween candy grab bag.
Turns out, Joy also made an entire ForeverAGo episode about her one true nemesis… NANACE!
It's a super fun episode and we're so excited to share it with you.
We'll be back next week with a brand new debate, Frankenstein's monster versus Frosty the Snowman.
Until then, enjoy this special episode of Forever A Go, and thanks for listening.
H -O -T -T -O -G -O I don't think I like mayo It makes me uncomfortable How much I despise mayo You've got mayo!
...Oh! Doth mine ears deceive me?
No, they doth not! I've got forever ago mail.
Yes, I'll have to finish my very original Anti -m feta a song later Hmm, let's see.
Oh It's an email from a listener named Maya from San Diego, California The subject line of the email is the history of Mayo Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
Oh, no, no, no, no. This can't be right.
Oh, I know. I'll text Maya and ask her in person.
Whoa, that was fast. Hi, Joy.
Maya, tell me it isn't true.
The history of Mayo?
Why are you doing this to me?
Listen. I know what you're thinking, but just hear me out.
How about I read you my question?
Mmm, okay, go ahead.
Okay. I decided to send in an idea for a podcast episode for forever ago.
I chose this especially because it's Joy's worst nightmare, arch nemesis, and mortal enemy, mayonnaise.
Oh. I think Joy Dolo is super awesome.
Oh? But I think the episode would be super amusing with all of Joy's disgusted reactions.
Whoa! Who said I make disgusted noises?
Bleuughhhh. I used to love Mayonnaise, but now I'm sort of low -key against it, so I think I would get Joy's OK.
Also, if Joy Dolo didn't actually hate Mayonnaise and it was just to give Forever Go more character and humor, I will be completely and utterly heartbroken, and I think every other Forever Go fan would be too.
But thank you so much for listening to my idea!
Maia, I assure you, this is not an act.
Ever since I was a kid, I've always despised mayo.
The gunky texture, the sour taste, the smell of rotting...
I get it. I get it.
So, can we do an episode about mayo?
You always say we should send in our episode ideas.
I do. I do. And we never shy away from the hard stuff here at Forever Ago.
Omg, omg, omg. Come on, Maya.
Let's explore the history of...
The history... Uh! The history of mail!
The history of mail!
Welcome to Forever Go from APM Studios.
I'm Joy Dolo, and my co -host today is Maya from San Diego, California.
Hi, Maya. Hi, Joy. Forever Go's a nonprofit public radio program.
Which means we rely on support from our listeners to keep the show going.
There are lots of ways you can support the show.
You can donate, become a Smarty Pass subscriber or buy our merch. The t -shirt has my face on it.
Head to ForeverAGO .org to show your support.
Thank you. Now, Maya, I would like to say I'm excited, but I'm not.
In fact, I'm not sure I can go on.
Literally everyone knows Mayo and I are not BFFs.
We're not even Fs. In fact, we're Es, for enemies.
I honestly don't know if I can do this episode.
But joy, you're an actor.
I am. And you've done some tough roles You've played fruit in a fruit salad, a tree in a forest. And I did not make a sound.
Acting! So why not use your acting skills to get in the frame of mind of someone who likes mayo?
Okay, fine someone who tolerates and is curious about mayo.
act joy act acting is about empathy deeper understanding through imagination okay fine you talked me into it Maya let me just do some quick warm -ups to get into character mmm mayo is a cool condiment mayo is a cool condiment mayo is a cool condiment my mama mixes mayo and mustard My momma mixes mayo with mustard. Lalalalalala.
OK, OK, OK. Let's do it.
You got this Joy. I'm Joy Dolo.
And I tolerate mayo.
And this is Mya, which is just one letter different than the word mayo.
But we won't hold that against her.
So Mya, you used to like mayo.
What was your favorite way to eat it?
My dad makes all the food in the house.
My mom makes lots of food too.
but my dad makes like the authentic Lebanese food and he makes the authentic Lebanese cabbage salad.
But also he like, will like mix up his recipes a little bit.
So he used to put mayo in the cabbage salad and it's actually really good.
I still kind of like it, but I used to also like mayo in my like turkey sandwiches and stuff.
I don't anymore, I also don't eat turkey cause I'm vegetarian now.
Ah, why did you start to dislike it?
Was it, did it do something to you?
Yes, it did. It betrayed me.
Oh no... I got sick of it.
There are too many mayo sandwiches and I'm like, I'm done with you mayo.
I just write it off.
I hear you, that sounds very much like my story.
Okay, so how would you describe mayo for someone who hasn't had it before?
Okay, it depends on what kind of mayo you have. But it's like an almost neutral, sort of white, thick -ish cream, but it's a little bit sweet.
Mhm. There's something about the texture and something about it that I just have never liked.
But it's also, like, it's everywhere, right?
Mané's is a simple sauce made of a few key ingredients.
Egg yolks. Some kind of oil.
Some kind of acid, like lemon juice or vinegar.
And sometimes seasoning, like, maybe garlic or mustard. That's it.
Because this recipe is so simple, It's been around for a long time as long as these ingredients have existed Someone is probably mixing them together emphasis on mixing in order to get the consistency just right you have to stir and stir and Stir and stir adding the oil and lemon juice a little bit at a time But as far as historians can tell the name mayonnaise wasn't used until about two to three hundred years ago Who came up with that name anyway?
It sounds French. Is it French for jiggly white sauce of my nightmares?
The È's part of the word is definitely French. Yeah, it can mean comes from.
But the mayo part of the name.
No one can agree on where that part came from.
That's because no one wants to take credit for it.
Hey -oh. Can I get a high five?
No? Nobody? One idea is that mayo is named after a city in Spain called Maone.
in Spanish a sauce from there would be called salsa maoneza another idea is that the name comes from the French word manie meaning to stir manionez makes sense since you have to stir it a lot to make it another is thought that it might come from the old French word muyu which means egg yolk muyunez another contender since the egg yolk set it apart from other sauces and there's another theory that it's actually named after a French town called Bayonne Bayonnaise!
That's how I say mayonnaise when I have a cold.
Please pass the bayonnaise away from me.
But no matter the etymology or the origin of the word, mayonnaise is here to stay.
It's eaten all over the world.
Russia is the country that eats the most mayo, using it in salads with herring, beets, or potatoes.
And of all the condiments, for some reason, it's the most popular one in the U .S., which Which is absurd since mustard is right there.
It's so popular here that people have very real feelings about which brand of mayonnaise is best. Okay, as a passionate holder of mayonnaise opinions I can't wait to hear about that.
But first I need a break, please.
So let's play... First Things First!
This is the game where we take three things from history and try to put them in order of which came first, second, and most recent in time.
Today's three things are gloopy things.
Augustus Gloop from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, gloppy from the board game Candyland, and instant oatmeal.
Okay, Maya, which do you think came first, which came second, and which came most recently in history?
Actually, first of all, have you seen Charlie and the Chocolate Factory?
I have read the book and seen the movie.
Augustus Gloop is the one who eats, like, a lot of chocolate, right?
Yeah. I think so. Yeah.
Okay. So, I know that's pretty old because Road Doll is a classic.
But the next one, instant oatmeal.
I love instant oatmeal.
But I cannot remember the last one you said.
What was it? Oh, yeah, yeah.
Gloppy from the board game Candyland.
I'm gonna go Augustus gloop because I feel like Rodal did not get his inspiration from Candyland I feel like I can't imagine Rodal playing Candyland and without those vibes going on I can only imagine that he wasn't alive when Candyland was invented Wait, actually, I didn't even think about the oatmeal Ah, this is so hard Huh.
I'm gonna say oatmeal first. Oh because I feel like that could have been made with really simple ingredients and we learned about in school about like the Neolithic period and agriculture and I feel like instant oatmeal is like really simple and I feel like it's something that could have come really early and then I'm gonna go Charlie and the chocolate factory Augustus Gloop, and then I'm gonna go candy land Ooh.
Okay. I never get these right.
I'm so scared. Listen, those are some great guesses.
I would actually guess that order too.
So we have Instant Oatmeal, Augustus Gloop, and then Galapie from Candy Land?
Yeah. Okie dokie, we'll hear the answers at the end of the episode right after the credits.
So stick around. Hey, Forever Go friends, we love hearing from our listeners.
And we want to know what topic you would like to explore on the show.
Is there an invention or time period you'd like to learn more about?
Maya, what's something from history you're curious about?
Etymology, definitely, like how language was invented?
I feel like that would be really cool.
And writing, but kind of writing without language.
The history of writing and language, I love that idea.
Listeners, if you have a question about history, record yourself asking your question and send it to us at forevergo .org slash contact.
And while you're there, you can send us fan art.
Like maybe a picture of me eating a mustard -heavy sandwich with a bunch of mustard on it without any mayo, maybe.
That's foreverago .org slash contact.
And keep listening.
Brainzon Universe is a family of podcasts for kids and their adults.
Since you're a fan of forever ago, you'll love the other shows in our universe.
Come on, let's explore.
It's alien exercise hour!
Hi -ya! Hoo -ha! While I stretch my snoodles and bounce on my trampolini, listen to a new podcast. I'm going to try Smash Boom Best, the best debate podcast ever !" Tell us why Alice in Wonderland has such grand command.
Drop the beat. Ladies and gentlemen, esteemed judge of Smash Boom Best, I'd like to start with a few rhymes.
Oh, yeah. Catch me in the rabbit hole dazzled by a magic show.
Zoop come back here podcast must listen to smash boom best now listen to smash boom best wherever you get your podcasts.
Hey friends, Molly sandin and Mark here with some very Big news, drum roll please.
We're hitting the road in search of adventure, fresh air, and you.
That's right. We're going to be live at the Boulder theater in Boulder, Colorado on Sunday, April 27th.
Our science themed, live stage show takes the audience on an adventure through the brain, complete with magic tricks, dance moves, out of body experiences, mystery sounds, and a game show.
Molly, you almost left out the most important part.
Yeah, Molly, don't forget the big party.
Oh, right. After the shows, we're throwing a braintastic bash.
Join us afterward for a VIP party where we'll play games, guess mystery sounds, pose for photos, and give as many high fives as humanly possible.
Snag a spot by purchasing a VIP pass when you buy your show ticket.
Oh, that reminds me, I've got to start training.
These hands aren't going to high five by themselves.
Five and five. Good idea.
And remember, spots are limited so grab your tickets today at Brainson .org slash events.
You're listening to Forever Ago.
I'm Joy. And I'm Maya.
Today we're talking about mayo.
Mayonnaise is a... tasty sauce made of egg yolks, oil, some kind of acid and maybe some seasoning.
We don't really know where the name came from, but it has stuck and spread all over the world.
It's a spread that's spread.
So for a long time, this sauce was made by hand, putting all the ingredients together and stirring them up.
But now instead of making it at home, most people buy it at the grocery store.
And people feel very strongly about which brand of mayo is the best. Yeah, arguments over mayo brands can get pretty intense.
You've heard of WWE World Wrestling Entertainment, where wrestlers like John Cena and The Rock take to the ring and wow audiences.
Now get ready for the WME World Mayo Eaters, Where top mayo's take to the tongue and entice taste buds.
Stomachs, get ready to rumble.
Can you smell what Eugenia Duke is stirring?
It's mayonnaise. Eugenia Duke, inventor of Duke's mayonnaise, queen of the South.
During World War I, I started selling sandwiches to soldiers in training in South Carolina.
They loved my sandwiches, but especially the mayo.
So I started bottling it and selling it.
Now my mayo whip is a premier dip.
Your mayo is too tangy.
Richard Hellman, inventor of Hellman's mayonnaise, king of the Northeast, has entered the ring.
I came to the US from Germany, ran a deli in New York City, and started bottling and selling my very special mayonnaise around the same time as the duchess over here.
Hellman's is here to lay the smackdown on your sandwiches.
Too tangy? Too tangy?
Well, your boring mayo is a main no. Boring?
Tangy? You both clearly need a little sweetness for this cutie pie.
Oh, my! It's Japanese mayo inventor Toichiro Nakashima.
Ah, this mayo match up is now officially a battle royale.
I first tasted mayonnaise while working in the US.
Then, around the same time as these two jokers, I started bottling my own special mayo in Japan.
Kewpie, this sauce is boss.
Kewpie? More like a boobie.
Richard, bless your heart.
You think your mayonnaise is better than his?
I know it is. Why don't you call your mommy and ask for more oomami!
Which mayo maker will come out on top?
We don't know. It's highly subjective!
I had declined to take part in this taste test, but I do love a good rivalry.
There are real differences between these mayos QP uses rice vinegar more egg yolks and yeast extract Giving it that big savory flavor aka umami Plus some tangy sweetness to Dukes uses cider vinegar and doesn't add any sugar Making it the mayor of tangy town and hellman's prides itself on its mildness and thick Creamy texture.
Okay, so all these super popular mayo started being bottled around the same time in the 1920s What was going on then?
Well a bunch of stuff.
It became easier to make large amounts of things like sauces thanks to machines and factories.
Plus this was around the time when more people started living in cities.
Right, they were on the go working outside of their homes.
They needed quick, portable food, like sandwiches.
And you know you can't have a sandwich without a spread, like mayo.
Um, I beg to differ.
Oh Maya, I've tried so hard and I've said the word mayonnaise so many times, but I just can't go on.
I still don't like Mayo.
And I think I'm done talking about it.
I have an idea! How about I call up our friend Francis Lamb?
Francis Lamb? Charming and talented hosts of the Splendid Table podcast?
Okay, I do love Francis.
Me too! And the Splendid Table is a show all about food and cooking.
So if anyone can help you understand the magic, or at least the merit, of Mayo, it's him.
Let's give him a call.
Hello? Hi Francis, it's joy and Maya what from the delightful and whimsical podcast forever ago, I love your show Yes, we're calling because we need your help joy is not a fan of mayonnaise So, can you help us understand why it's useful is cake better when it's covered in frosting.
Yes Okay. So, how do you like to use mayonnaise?
I like to use it every which way I mean the most obvious way of course is on the sandwich But you know there are actually so many different ways to use it So mayonnaise, as you probably know, is a pretty basic sauce.
And I mean basic as in fundamental, not basic as in like boy, you are so basic.
So it is made, it's what we call in food nerd circles, an emulsion.
An emulsion is a sauce or a substance where oil and water have been made to mix, maybe a little bit against their will, but they all kind of get along.
So when you whisk the egg yolks and mayonnaise with a little lemon juice and oil, what you're doing is the egg yolk kind of acts as a bond to keep the oil and water in the lemon juice blended together into a thick beautiful sauce instead of like a greasy mess.
How are the different kinds of mayonnaise different like Duke's versus Hellman's versus QP?
Oh okay, so you just mentioned my absolute favorites.
So what makes those different mayonnaise is different is basically how they flavor that sauce.
Whether they use more or less lemon juice or vinegar, or whether they add different spices to it.
And in some cases, maybe a tiny touch of sugar.
And in Kewpie's case, a little bit of MSG.
So Kewpie when you taste it, sometimes they call it cheese mayonnaise because it has a richer flavor, a deeper flavor, almost like cheese.
And that's because they've seasoned it with a little bit of MSG to give it that depth.
So that's super delicious.
I grew up with Hellman's, So I feel like Hellmann's is kind of like, the foundational mayonnaise.
Like that's the mayonnaise upon which all mayonnaises are built.
That's not actually the case though, and if you grew up in the South, you might like Duke's more because that's a brand that's much more popular in the South.
Kewpie sounds really good.
I've never had it before, but if it's got like a cheese – I love cheese.
I love cheese. And if - if you can tell me that this mayonnaise kind of tastes like cheese… Oh, we're turning you!
You guys, you guys, mark it here in the history book.
Joy Zolo has officially said that she thinks a mayonnaise sounds delicious She's open I said it, I did not eat it What'd it help you to know too that Kewpie comes in a really cute bottle And has a really cute doll as the icon And it has a star tip so when you squeeze it out it looks like a star It does help I kind of feel like a sandwich is almost incomplete without it I love bread, I love things that go in bread but I kind of feel like a sandwich needs a little bit of juice a little bit of Slickness, you know and the mayonnaise provides that perfectly.
I like butter on bread, but butter in a sandwich Just kind of I don't know.
It's like it doesn't feel right I want something to make make the things kind of slide a little bit I was catching your drift until you said juice and then you said I can't show myself any favors.
I'm off the mayo train again.
Oh no, I lost her. Instead of saying juiciness and slidiness, maybe I would say it offers richness and sauciness.
Because that's the thing too because the flavor of mayonnaise is oil, is the richness of oil, but it doesn't taste oily and greasy, again, because of the magic of emulsion.
And because it's emulsified, it actually makes your mouth, um, it makes your tongue react to it differently.
So it actually accepts the flavor of the oil in a way that's a little bit more Clean and a little bit richer.
Then again, like what it would taste like if you just put a spoonful of oil in your mouth Which even I think sounds extremely gross other other like really popular emulsions most Creamy salad dressings.
Hmm are emulsions like ranch dressing is basically mayonnaise with a little bit of buttermilk and some seasonings No, it's not.
It's true. My world is changing.
I love ranch. I'm gonna lose so many fans.
So what's a possible recipe that Joy could try, I mean other than salad with ranch dressing or whatever, that Joy could try that would show a more hidden use for mayonnaise?
Oh, a hidden use for mayonnaise.
Well this I love because mayonnaise is usually you know turned into a sauce turned into a condiment you know something like that a salad dressing Another famous emulsion that's a salad dressing is caesar dressing which again is basically a mayonnaise Mmm, but a hidden use This is actually one of my favorite kitchen hacks So are you fans of grilled cheese?
Yes, yes, okay So what's the biggest problem when you make a grilled cheese?
When the cheese gets cold, and then it gets chewy.
Okay, well that's a problem with eating the grilled cheese not fast enough.
But I feel like when you're making grilled cheese if you put like, you know, you put butter on the bread and then you start to like fry the sandwich, it often gets burnt.
You have all those like burnt spots and you're kind of like, this is still delicious, I guess.
If you use, coat the bread with mayonnaise and fry it the mayonnaise outside of the bread instead of butter.
Mayonnaise, because it doesn't have the milk solids.
It doesn't burn nearly as easily, but it still has the ability to coat the bread.
So you're not like pouring oil on the bread to fry it.
So that is a super hack for grilled cheese.
That's so cool. Oh my gosh.
I hope that the fans are listening to this.
They make the grilled cheese with the mayo and send pictures to forevergold .org slash contact.
But you gave so many great points.
I'm gonna have to start hating something else.
I just didn't understand mayonnaise.
And Frances has really helped me understand just the different ways that mayo is actually a part of my life.
And isn't that the secret to existence on this world?
Isn't that why we're here?
The more we understand, the less we hate.
Yes, different perspectives, you know, and I'm just learning so much. Thank you so much for joining us, Frances.
Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure.
Thanks for the call.
1. Mayo Mayo is a simple sauce made from a few ingredients, and it's been around for a long time.
We don't know who made it first or where the name came from, but it's become a super popular condiment all over the world.
Several big mayo brands that we still eat today got their start in the 1920s.
That's when people started working outside their homes and eating meals on the go, like sandwiches.
Not everyone likes mayo.
I don't. And that's okay.
But there are some recipes that use it in an interesting way, like grilled cheese with ranch, which is secretly, mostly mayo.
I'm gonna go home and try it out.
Just kidding, I hate mayo.
This episode was written and produced by Molly Bloom and Nico Gonzalez -Whistler.
Our editors are Sandynn Taughton and Shayla Farzan fact checking by Nikko Gonzales -Whistler.
Engineering help from Josh Savageau with sound design by Rachel Breeze.
Original theme music by Mark Sanchez.
We had additional production help from the rest of the Brains On Universe team, Rosie DuPont, Anna Goldfield, Ruby Guthrie, Lauren Humphrecht, Joshua Ray, Rebecca Rand, Sandon Totton, Charlotte Traver, Anna Weghel, and Arun Voldisilasi.
Beth Pearlman is our executive producer and the executives in charge of APM Studios are Chandra Kavati and Joanne Griffith.
Special thanks to George Kiriyama, Amy Bentley, and Erica Romero.
And if you want access to ad -free episodes and special bonus content, subscribe to our Smarty Path.
OK, Maya. It's that time.
Are you ready for the answers to first things first?
No. Not really. I thought you had some really great, great ideas.
First you thought was instant oatmeal.
and second was Augustus Gloop from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, and third, Gloppy from the Candyland board game.
Yeah. Now I'm a little bit more confident just hearing it out loud, you know?
It makes sense, right?
I guess, yeah. All right.
Drum roll please. Balalalalalalalalalalalalalala.
And so... Maya, you...
You're gonna say that I got them right because you always do your sad voice when people get them right.
I thought that was my happy voice.
Oh, it was? Yeah. Oh.
Just kidding, you got it right.
Yeah. Yeah, you got it right.
I was going to do a sad voice.
You got me, Maya. We know now, Joy.
I'm sorry. But we know.
After, like, three seasons of you always going, oh, oh, Maya.
Oh, I'm so sorry. Because whenever it's actually bad, then you're like, well, you got two of them.
Like, you're trying to make us feel better.
But when you're trying to make us feel sad, We know that you're just like, JK!
Maya, you are so on to me.
You can't use that tactic anymore.
Okay Maya, you got them right.
Let me tell you why they're right, Maya.
So first was instant oatmeal in 1922.
So before instant oatmeal, traditional steel -cut oats would have to be cooked for about 30 minutes before you could dig into a delicious bowl of oatmeal.
And in 1922, Quaker Oat Company introduced quick cooking oats, which would only take five minutes.
And so the Quaker Oat Company filed for a patent for instant oatmeal in 1957, which would be ready in just two minutes.
Hey, you want to hear something else awesome?
Yeah. You got the second one right too.
So Augustus Gloop, you made his appearance in the book Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, which written by Roald Dahl and published in 1964.
And in the book, he falls into a chocolate river, which is also gloopy, and in an earlier draft of the book, the character was named Augustus Poddle, and gloop is much more fun to say, right?
Gloop? Last and certainly not least is Gloppy, and that was invented in 1984.
So, the Candyland board game first came out in 1948 and was designed to entertain children who were in the hospital sick with polio.
In fact, the inventor was a former teacher who was also in the hospital with polio and saw how bored the children were.
And in the original version, it had familiar locations like the gumdrop forest and molasses swamp, but none of the goofy characters to accompany them.
And they didn't come until 1984 when gloppy, the resident of the molasses swamp, and other characters like queen frostine and plumpy were introduced.
Isn't that interesting?
That's so cool. Yeah.
I love that it was an idea for kids that were bored in the hospital.
Yeah, it's so sweet.
It's beautiful. So were you surprised by any of those answers?
I was surprised that I got them right.
That's something. I'm surprised about how late instant oatmeal was.
I'm like, I thought you would have been in 50 BCE.
No, I'm joking. Oh, but going to be totally honest, real steel cut oats are a lot better than instant oatmeal.
Mya, I agree with you.
I know. I love steel cut oats.
I just take the time to make them because they're so much better.
I don't take the time to make them, I take the time to make my dad make them.
You got a good plan.
All right, everybody, join us next week for a new episode all about Bollywood movies.
Thanks for listening.
