Hi, Matt here. For most of us presenting confidently and clearly in our native language is hard enough.
But communicating in another language is marked by unique challenges and opportunities for growth.
I am super excited to share our new ELL English Language Learning webpage at fastersmarter.io-ELL.
This page is designed to help all non-native English speakers feel less anxious while being more authentic and successful in their communication.
In addition to practical advice, you will find ThinkFast TalkSmart episode-specific ELL content along with links to my favorite English Language Learning Podcast playlist.
Please check out fastersmarter.io-ELL.
Hi, Matt here. We're doing something a bit different for today's episode.
I'm excited to share a conversation I had with my good friends at Fixable, a podcast from the TED Audio Collective.
It's a show where Harvard Business Professor Francis Frye and her wife, CEO and bestselling author Anne Morris, talk to guest collars about their workplace issues and solve their problems in 30 minutes or less.
They had me on as a master fixer to share my tips and strategies to be a more confident, compelling communicator.
You can listen to Fixable wherever you get your podcasts.
Hey Anne, hello Francis.
I am super excited about today's episode.
We're going to be talking about communication and in particular, how to do it well on the spot.
Which is not easy for all of us.
Oh my gosh, it's not easy for all of us.
Although you and I, I think, represent opposite ends of that continuum.
I think that's fair. How would you describe the continuum?
Well I prefer on the spot.
I don't have my deeply comfortable.
I prefer it. And then I would go all the way over to your end where you'll do it if you have to.
Yeah. But you're a very reluctant on the spotter.
Yeah, I just want some advanced notice, which is not too much to ask.
Yeah. So, let me ask you this, Francis.
Why do you think this is such a comfortable place for you?
Oh, because my first draft is my best to draft.
I don't know. It's just, and there's no pressure for like multiple drafts if I'm preparing it.
So, it's not going to get any better than the first one.
Yeah. And it's so deeply liberating to me.
Yeah, I do get stuck on how much better I could be with a couple swings.
Oh, that's what happens in writing.
Yeah, and I can't be any better than this.
So, that's where it is here.
All right. Well, I'm excited to continue this conversation with our guests today and our goal is going to be to take everyone from an Ann starting place to a Francis end point.
I'm Ann Morris. I'm a company builder and leadership coach.
And I'm Francis Fry. I'm a Harvard Business School professor and I'm Ann's wife.
And this is fixable from the TED Audio Collective.
On this show, we believe that meaningful change happens fast.
Anything is fixable and good solutions are often just a single brave conversation away.
And who are we having that brave conversation with today in?
So, I'm going to say today we're having our second ever master fixer.
So, if you remember a few months ago, we hosted Claire Hughes-Johnson on the show to talk about how to fix meetings.
Oh, my goodness. I loved that show.
Definitely go back in the feed, folks, if you've missed it.
Definitely do that. And then hang in there with us today because today we get to talk about the expert on effective off-the-cuff communications and that is Matt Abraham's.
Oh, I am so excited. I've been such a big fan from afar and then I got to get closer with Matt during the pandemic because we met at Clubhouse.
Oh, all things lead to Clubhouse for you.
And everybody in academia knows about the amazing work that he does because it's these really beautiful insights on how to successfully communicate and he makes them so practical and so accessible.
So, I have wanted to have Matt on forever and I'm so glad that he could fit us in.
He is a professor of organizational behavior at Stampt for Business School.
He's the author of several books focused on the psychology of communication and how to quote, think fast and talk smart, which is what he calls his podcast and I believe is the name of this latest book.
Yeah, think faster, talk smarter.
So, he really added the AR.
Even more ambitious, I love it.
And I decided to be on that podcast.
It was wonderful and I encourage folks to give it a listen.
That's right. So, today we want to talk to Matt about his research on communication and get all of his best insight into how to communicate confidently so others will listen, especially in those moments when you haven't prepared a single line.
And my heart rate is already starting to increase.
And so, you can think about this as like when you're put on the spot in meetings, if you're answering questions during a Q&A, even if you're having, you know, a conversation at a networking event, anything where you couldn't possibly have planned, it turns out there's skill involved in doing it better.
And so, all of that stuff that's high stakes, difficult to prepare for, Matt is a master fixer.
So, Matt Abrahams, welcome to Fixable.
I am so excited to be with you Ann and Francis.
This is great. It's very mutual.
My wife has been excited all day.
I talk about you a lot, Matt.
Yeah. And it's infectious.
So, Matt, you have been chasing and fixing a nearly universal problem for much of your career, which is to help people communicate better, more fluently, less anxiously in the moments that matter most.
In your new book, Think Faster, Talk Smarter, you seem to be focusing on unplanned or spontaneous communication.
So, those times when we're put on the spot and need to deliver, is this an accurate characterization of your mission in the world?
Absolutely. It is. You're now part of my public relations team.
You did that very well. Yes.
I am passionate about communication.
And I have turned my focus now to what I call spontaneous speaking that in the moment communication, answering questions, giving feedback, making small talk.
It's critical to both our business and personal success.
It seems like you're on a mission to reduce what the French call stairway regret.
And I'm not going to attempt the more beautiful French version of this phrase, but the experience of thinking of the perfect thing to say, but too late.
So James Joyce called it After Whit, which is an old English word that I think we need to recessitate.
I love it. But we do need to recestate that I have a lot of After Whit.
Yeah. Yeah, I am plagued by After Whit.
So I'm hoping by the end of this call, I'm going to feel a little bit less pain.
Is that a guarantee you're willing to make?
I am willing to say that we will talk about tools that will help.
How is that? Perfect. And you?
And it's all about that.
It's expectations low and then achieve greatness.
So. Oh, Matt, I'm going to be learning a lot from you.
I can already tell Matt, you have two people with very different relationships with communication on this call.
For instance, I think you feel less anxious with the spotlight on you.
I prefer it. I'm finally awake.
When I have to get her to do something, Matt, I just turn on a camera.
Turn on a camera. She relaxes.
I love this insight. This is fascinating.
I want to hear more. And I have had to wrestle with this communication demon more in my career.
I think my comfort zone is probably writing in one-on-one communication where I have total control over language and my emotional frequency.
When I was pitching investors in your neighborhood, Matt, I was actually quite terrible at it in the beginning, plagued by AfterWit.
And so I guess one thing that would have helped me then that I'm going to ask you now is, what does good look like here?
Is it the absence of feeling anxious and self-destructed or is it something that's happening in the audience?
Like, how do I know when I'm getting good at this or at minimum making progress?
To me, good is all about what the audience experiences.
Does the audience get the information they need to be successful with whatever your goal was?
That, to me, is the key to successful communication.
We are in service of our audience.
Now we tend to get in our own way and think it's about us, but it's really about them.
The latter part of your question was, how do I know when I feel good or bad?
And it comes from practice.
It comes from lowering the expectation that you have for yourself.
We strive for perfection in our communication.
We want to do it right. And there is no right way to do it.
I have no idea what you're talking about.
Yes. I was going to say, I figured out what I don't have any perfectionist in terms of communication.
Well, it is one of your superpowers.
I think in the two of you, we're seeing this challenge, almost of a foreign and after, if you will, where a lot of us strive for perfection to get it right.
And in so doing, we put so much pressure on ourselves that we end up not doing it as well as possible.
And it boils down to cognitive bandwidth.
In many ways, your brain is like a computer.
And if your laptop or your phone has lots of apps and windows open, it performs less well.
And if I'm constantly speaking, judging and evaluating everything I'm saying, I am burdening that bandwidth.
And I can't do as well as I could.
And it sounds like Francis has gotten to a point where it's not about getting it right.
It's about getting it done.
And for those who are still putting a lot of pressure on themselves, my suggestion is, let's find ways to dial that down.
The key to success is to be audience focused and to give yourself permission just to get the communication done.
And in so doing, you more than likely will do it very well.
That's so interesting.
You're one of the things that Francis and I will say to each other before we perform together.
We stole this from in the world of improv, which where I know you have spent some time playing and thinking about these really interesting questions.
But it is the phrase, everything you do is exactly right.
So it's kind of the opposite way in.
But it's pushing on the same emotional lever, which is just how do you, like the doorway of liberation for some, maybe swing for mediocrity.
And the others, which is, I think what has been helpful for us, is just assume everything is going to go perfectly well.
Get over your attachment to the outcome and just start.
I love that idea of getting being present and it's not about the outcome.
It's about the moment and in so doing, you allow for connection.
So it's about connection, not perfection.
And any way you come to it.
I love that. I love that.
I love that. It's about connection, not perfection.
So I imagine your career, you've taken so many people at different points in their careers from MBA students to seasoned professionals on this ride to becoming more confident, more fluent in high stakes communication.
We're going to get into the mechanics of how a little bit later, but what's the payoff in your experience for getting better at this?
I think there are many, but by far the most important is that you are able to connect and effectively transact information with people such that others are benefiting from your experience, your wisdom, the advice and guidance that you give.
You know, part of the work I do in my consulting practice is going to organizations and help them build what I call a communication infrastructure.
And that's not the technology.
Tools are important, but it's really about the people and processes to invite an environment that creates and sustains and supports this type of communication.
And I know in the work you do, especially in your new book, you talk a lot about communication, but it's all predicated on having processes that support that communication within organizations.
It takes so much time to communicate well.
And I said, it takes a lot longer to clean the mess up when you don't.
Yeah, to not communicate well.
That can take years. Yeah.
So Matt, when you go into an organization out of curiosity, what's the first thing you do?
When we go into an organization, we almost always begin with an interactive lecture on trust and inclusion, because that's like level setting.
What's your level setting when you go into an organization?
I go in and I listen. I let a lot of people explain to me where they see themselves being successful in their communication, both as individuals and as organizations, components of an organization, departments, divisions, et cetera.
And I let them explain where they think it's working and then where it's not working.
And what I'm looking for are the bottlenecks or the telltale signs of where we're getting into challenges with communication.
I'll give you an example.
I went into an organization recently where they shared with me that the number of meetings they were having was increasing.
And the number of people they were having in those meetings was increasing.
And whenever I hear meeting creep and right, it immediately says, okay, we've got a problem because meetings are often used as as band aids for much larger structural and communication issues.
So I'm looking for where are those signs that the problems exist and then what's causing those problems?
So I do a lot of listening first.
I love that. That's not intuitive.
No. Well, thank you. All right.
So this is not a hypothetical.
Imagine that I am willing to go on this ride with you now and become a better off the cuff speaker.
I know you have like a beautiful step by step process, but can you give us the abridged version?
Certainly. So the book and my experience in the last almost decade working on this is really divided into six steps.
Those six steps can be divided further into mindset and messaging.
And it comes to mindset.
As we started with, most people are anxious in communication period, but especially when it's spontaneous in nature.
So we have to learn to manage the anxiety.
After that, we have to address the perfection versus connection issue.
We've talked about that.
We then have to change our mindset to be one of embracing of these circumstances.
Many of us, when we're put on the spot in spontaneous situations, get very defensive.
We feel threatened. Even if I were just to tell both of you that at the end of this, there's going to be a Q&A, you might say, oh my goodness, that's nerve wracking for me.
And we get defensive. I would argue that these opportunities are for collaboration, for connection, for learning more.
And if you see that mindset shift, it makes it a bit easier.
And then finally, as we just talked about listening, listening is the last step in the mindset process.
You really have to listen well to the nuance of what's going on in the moment to respond appropriately when you're on the spot.
And then the last two steps have to do with messaging.
I'm a huge fan of frameworks.
I believe frameworks are critical.
And structure is critical to our communication.
And once we have good structure, we then have to work on what I call the F word of communication.
And it's not that naughty one.
It's focus. Many of us ramble, especially when we're spontaneous.
My mother has this wonderful saying that I know she didn't create, but it's, tell me the time.
Don't build me the clock.
And many of us, as we are spontaneously speaking, become clock builders, instead of being concise.
So that in a nutshell is this six steps.
I'm happy to dive deeper into any of them.
But with practice, with intent, with reflection, those steps can help everybody feel more comfortable and confident in the moment.
And then the watch and the clock thing at HBS 50% of every grade is class participation.
And 10% of every class fails.
So what it does is it simulates a high stakes environment, even though it's, you know, a beautiful laboratory.
But it simulates it effectively enough that people have, they're moved to anxiety.
So it's a good laboratory for what you're talking about.
When I grade class participation, I grade it as quality per unit time spoken.
I love that. Yes. This whole methodology came about, because you and I both teach at business schools, as a result of the deans of Stanford's business school coming to me and saying, our students have a fundamental problem.
They can't respond well to cold calls.
They're freezing. They're choking.
Even though, as you well know, our students are very bright.
They know the answer. They just can't do it.
So they came to me and said, can you help come up with a way to help empower our students in that cold call moment to respond well?
And that's, that was the origin of all of this about eight or 10 years ago.
Yeah. Matt, I want to pull on that anxiety thread because I feel like I am back in the NBA classroom.
My heart is racing. I don't love the word anxiety in 2023 because it's been so pathologized.
I actually really loved Tracy Dennis Tawari's book Future Tense.
She describes anxiety as the in it to win it emotion, which I'm always, I'll always tell that one of our kids that, yeah.
And I think your message is bigator that we should react.
Yes. The stakes are high.
Let's go. Let's get moving.
You bet. Have I distracted you enough from my anxiety story?
Are you still want to hear?
No, I'm, I'm, I'm riveted.
So, so as a 14 year old boy in freshman year of high school, first person asked because with the last name Abraham's, I always went first because we were always alphabetical that very rarely has anybody ever come before me.
Yeah. So, as a 14 year old boy, first day freshman class English, we all had to stand up and say what we did that summer.
We've probably been all through that activity at some point in school.
At the end of that, my English teacher, Mr.
Meredith, comes up to me and says, you're good at this talking thing.
You need to go to this speech tournament this Saturday.
Every English teacher, I think, had to send a student and I was his student.
And he, the only advice he gave me is talk about something you're interested in.
So I, I prepared a 10 minute speech on the martial arts, something I was interested in.
Then I'm still interested in now.
So I show up 7 30 AM on a Saturday morning.
It's still dark out. I walk into this big room.
There are parents of my friends who are judging this thing.
My friends are in the room and the girl I like is in the room.
My stakes, I'm in my shirt and pants that are way too tight because I had grown over the summer.
My dad had to tie my tie. You get the picture, right?
I was so nervous about this event.
I forgot to put on my special karate pants.
If you know anything about the martial arts, the pants have a little extra room because you're kicking and moving around.
I started my 10 minute speech with a karate kick.
I ribbed my pants from zipper to belt buckle in the first 10 seconds of a 10 minute speech.
At that moment and from that moment, I have been interested in the impact of anxiety on communication and it all boils back to that cold Saturday morning as a 14 year old.
Oh, you have affected the whole climate over here in our home.
Like we feel this. Oh my goodness.
And we have boys in this age range.
Oh, yes. It's particularly important.
It was an experience. And I'll tell you though, what I am most proud of from that experience and it took me many years to get here.
Is that you stayed on the stage?
I stayed on the stage. I finished and rather than letting that defeat me, I actually got really curious and ended up not only doing that speech again, but really looking into anxiety's impact on me.
That's amazing. Amazing.
So we have one of your story now.
Yeah. Well, I do. Yeah, we're going to bridge to it because my next question was around this recovery moment, which I think is the really extraordinary part of the story that you didn't run off the stage.
Yeah. But in those moments when we're starting to feel like the tell tale signs of anxiety, so shortness of breath and racing hard and I can tell you my big fear is blanking out because I have done that multiple times in my life and I did it once on the stage.
I think I was maybe 16. I was singing.
I was singing Gilbert and Sullivan, Pirates of Penn's Dance.
I had made it through the first and I had no idea what the next stand was.
What did you do? I just, I can still conjure this memory like this early and I just hear the director on the piano.
She thought I couldn't hit the note as if, right?
I understood my instrument so well that I was just seeking the note.
And so I just, every time I thought I maybe had it, I just, that little piano key started it.
So I sang the first line again.
Yeah. That's nice. Nice.
That's wonderful. So give me a grade, Matt.
So that's actually one of the bits of advice I give, not to sing Gilbert and Sullivan, but to repeat yourself.
And I have to tell you what's so funny that you brought that up is I have often said when somebody has like this hard thing to discuss or talk about hard because they've got a lot of words or it's very complex.
I'll say at least it's not singing the modern major general from Gilbert and I will use that.
So the fact that that's, that's amazing.
So the fear of blanking out is the number one fear that people report to me when they say, oh, you, you, you study anxiety and communication.
What do I do if I blank out or and so can I give my answer because you did part of it?
Oh, yes. Yes. It's my biggest fear and it has happened multiple times.
Right. So first and foremost, structure is key and remember structure is an important part in the methodology.
Right. A framework. Yeah.
Structure gives you a roadmap.
Structure is a logical connection of ideas like problem solution benefit.
When you were pitching on Sandhill road, you probably use problem solution benefit.
Here's this problem. Our service are offering our product service.
That problem. That's the solution.
And then here's the benefit if people deploy it.
That's a structure. Yes.
And you know, you got better and pitching your business by leaning into structure.
I, I, it's what, it's what makes a big difference.
For sure. The piece about not being worthy or the right person, a lot of us have that.
You call it imposter syndrome, call that lack of comfort, whatever.
The single best way I know to rectify that is to remind yourself that whenever you're communicating, you're in service of the audience, you're communicating to.
It's not about you. It's about them and what you can do for them.
And that mindset really makes a difference.
Getting back to blanking out.
The best thing to prevent yourself from doing it is to have a structure that you know.
It doesn't mean you've memorized, memorized word for word.
In fact, that works against you, but having a road map, it's hard to get lost if you have a map.
So if I'm presenting and I blank out and I go, well, I just covered problem.
I know solution always follows problem.
That helps me get back on track.
If that does not work, you do exactly what you did as a 16 year old.
You repeat yourself. It's like when you lose your keys or your phone, you retrace your steps that will often get you back on track.
If that does not work, the final rip cord on that parachute is to distract your audience long enough to get yourself on track.
And when I say distract, I mean, ask them a question.
You know you both have taught.
There are times when you teach where you forget something or you like, did I say this already?
And you just need a moment to collect your thoughts.
If you are ever a student of mine and you hear me say the following, let's pause for a moment and think about how what we've just discussed applies to your life or applies to what's coming next.
Your students will think, and my students say, oh, yeah, how does this apply?
They don't think that blanked out.
And in that moment, while they're thinking, I recollect my thoughts.
And I believe everybody can have one of these back pocket questions.
It can be very generic. Think about how what we've just talked about and how it will impact what comes next.
Very generic question, but it sounds purposeful.
It has meaning and it buys you time.
So there are ways to recover from blanking out.
And amazingly by knowing these ways, you actually are less likely to blank out.
Because you have a safety net, right?
I love that. This works so well for me.
I just need to have something that makes me realize that it's all going to be okay.
Something that I can rely on.
So Matt, I gave my first talk out in the wild since the pandemic.
I had to have filler for 25 minutes and it had to have the appearance of purposeful.
And so I think that's taking your safety net and making a whole thing about it.
But essentially, you were, you were directly following Matt's advice where you said, okay, let's talk about you now.
I totally did. I did exactly what you just said.
So we're wondering how well does that work?
Even for more than half of a keynote in front of thousands, it works.
Wow. You didn't have to break into Gilbert and Sullivan.
So that's good. No, to everyone's delight.
I mean, I feel like you are still metabolizing that looking at the clock in our 25 minutes.
I will be metabolizing that.
Well, for at least as long as Mr.
Pants Blitter metabolized, I think it's earned that level.
Yes. Yes. Yes. So Matt, my next question is really a PSA to my wife.
Oh, so Matt, really what fixable is?
It's it's I'm fixable Matt and it's within.
I mean, we just Francis.
We just got swing the guest and I.
Yeah, it's, you know, it's couples therapy, but it's really you to directional.
All right. That's why I'm here to remind everybody that communication works best when it's both ways.
It's not clear. That's true.
It's not clear. That's true in this particular.
So Matt. Yes. For not so spontaneous communication.
Uh, when the stakes are high, we know we're going to be in the spotlight.
Tell us about the value and payoff of preparation.
The big counterintuitive part of my new book is that preparation is critical to spontaneous speaking and speaking well.
And preparation is important in all communication.
Some people have different levels of preparation, but certainly at the very least, we should be thinking about our audience, their needs in terms of their knowledge, their areas of resistance, their attitudes.
We need to be thinking about our overarching goal to me.
A goal has three parts, information, emotion and action.
What do you want them to know, feel and do?
And then we should think about what are some key ideas we before or not when you, you need to say, Hey, how do I deal with this?
All of my classes, regardless of where I teach, I always have my students create what I call an anxiety management plan and AMP.
And I got that name, Francis, from our mutual friend, Alison, Alison Woods Brooks, who did some great research.
The great Alison Woods Brooks.
Absolutely. And she did some really fascinating research that if you reframe your anxiety as an excitement, it actually has positive benefits in many ways.
And so I like calling this an AMP where you can think about your anxiety as amping you up to do well rather than defeating you.
But you need to do the work in advance.
You don't do it moments before.
So when I do get that call, what can I do tomorrow before I get on the stage?
Three things I advise them.
First, work on your breathing.
You should be breathing deeply right now as you think about it and feel that anxiety and right before you start.
And by deep breathing, I mean, lower abdomen, deep yoga type breathing and your exhale needs to be twice as long as you're in hell because it's on the exhale that the relaxation response really kicks in.
Second, I invite everybody to come up with some kind of positive affirmation or mantra that you can say to yourself in that moment before you start speaking when all that negative self-talk starts like, why didn't I prepare more?
How come I'm the person doing this, not that other person?
What could I have done better?
Say this positive mantra and it doesn't have to be amazing.
It's simply being mine is I have value to bring.
That's what I say to myself right before I start before we started this podcast.
I said to myself, I have value to bring.
That helps me get audience focused.
And then finally, the third thing is anything you can do to get yourself present-oriented and be there for your audience.
If you are in your head and you are ahead of what's happening, I'm worried about not achieving my goal.
I'm worried about not making the 45 minutes.
I'm whatever. That's taking you away from that moment and away from that connection.
So that's the advice I give to people when I get the call eight hours before they're getting on stage.
The one I use is there's someone in the audience who really needs to hear what I have to say and I have no idea who that is.
So it forces me to also engage with everyone and not overconfident thinking like, oh, this guy over here is not interested.
And so it really gets me out of my head.
I hope you have a trademark or a trademark that because I want to use that.
No copy right on that because I like that.
No. I think it's mine one step further.
Yeah. Yeah. It's really nice.
Matt, this has been such a pleasure.
Thank you for indulging us with your time.
In addition to your book, Think Faster Talk Smarter, where else can people find you and absorb your insight and wisdom?
First, thank you both. This has been a true pleasure.
People can find me. The podcast I host, Think Fast Talk Smarter.
I'm not very creative with names so the book is named after the podcast.
You can find me at matabrahems.com and I do a lot of work on LinkedIn as well.
And so appreciate the opportunity to be with you and to get to know both of you a little better.
Well, that was fun. Yeah.
And I will say I love Fixable because we solve people's problems.
It's really nice to talk to someone who has solved lots of people's problems.
I learned so much. Yeah.
I learned a lot from that conversation and I had an insight hearing Matt talk, which is the form of communication and art I would argue that has moved me the most is standup comedy.
And I think part of it is how wired in you have to be not only with your broader audience but the humans in front of you in order to be good at that.
Yeah. And we get so distracted and I have gotten so distracted by, oh my god, my heart's rate like what's happening to me?
But when I succeed, it's when I'm able to let that go.
And the ultimate version of that is crowd work.
And how present you have to be, how present you have to be for the heckler, for the heckler.
And then the orientation, which Matt talks about of like what is the gift that this person is offering me?
Not what is this threat that has now like raised his hand in the audience?
So that's where I go. When I am trying to find my mojo before an experience or event or talk, I will spend some time with Juan de Saix and Sarah Silverman.
My new favorite, because I just came across her recently, Kathleen Madigan.
Just makes me roar with laughter.
Yeah. So I just, it's, I was able to connect a lot of dots in that conversation.
Yeah. I mean, our definition of leadership is that leadership is about making others better.
First as a result of your presence, but in a way that lasts into your absence.
And I was struck by how similar his definition of communication is with our definition of leadership.
Yeah. And there really is no leadership without communication.
I mean, it is the currency that allows you to influence other people's thoughts and beliefs and behavior.
So it's, it's not surprising, I guess.
And I guess what I would say is my, the takeaway I have from it is that our communication challenges are fixable.
Yes, that's the headline.
It's all fixable. It's all fixable.
Well, thanks everybody.
We would love to have you join us on fixable.
You can email us at fixableatet.com or call us at 234 fixable.
That's 234-349-2253. All communication is fixable and we think that your challenges are too.
A big thank you to our friends at Fixable.
I had such a great time talking with Anne in Francis.
Be sure to listen and subscribe to Fixable wherever you get your podcasts and do the same for Think Fast Talk Smart.
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