Discussion keeps the world turning.
This is Roundtable.
You're listening to Roundtable with myself Hye Young.
I'm joined by Steve Hatherly and Yuxian in the studio.
Coming up, climbing the Great Wall of China is often called an once of in a lifetime experience but what if your knees don't agree?
Well, say hello to your new travel buddy, The Robotic Exoskeleton.
It's kind of like Iron Man meets the Great Wall.
Are we entering the age of painless tourism or just getting too lazy to walk and need a boost to crush the week?
Our Special Segment Motivational Monday is your ultimate adrenaline shot to kick things off strong.
Our podcast listeners can find us at Roundtable China on Apple Podcast. got a question that's keeping you curious from social issues to tech and everything in between let us take a stab at it email us at roundtable podcast at qq .com now let's switch gears what if climbing the great wall didn't leave your knees begging for mercy now you can have a mechanical helper tourists in are strapping on robotic exoskeletons that give your legs a literal lift as part of a growing shift in how people explore the great outdoors, with facilities such as sightseeing elevators, flat hiking trails and even lie
flat rafting. Scenic spots across China are finding new ways to make nature easier to enjoy but are these travel aids making nature more accessible or taking the sweat and soul out of the journey let's start with what's happening on the ground or should we say up the steps how exactly are these robotic exoskeletons being used at the Great Wall and elsewhere?
Well before I dive into this I want I have a question for Steve here.
Steve you've been in China for a while Have you ever been onto the Great Wall before?
Yeah. I went to...we went to the Badaling location of the Great Wall.
And what's your feeling while climbing up or climbing down?
Well, you know, one of the things that I learned or heard after arriving in China from everyone was, Steve, don't go to a tourist location during a national holiday.
And I said, but what about this...
No, Steve, don't go to a tourist location.
I didn't listen. My wife and I went to the bottling location of the Great Wall.
I think it's supposed to take us an hour from where we took the taxi from.
It took us two hours and 20 minutes to get there.
But I will say this, once we got into the wall area, it didn't seem that crowded.
But the wall itself, it was like, I don't even know how to describe it, it was a wall of people on the wall, it was a wall on a wall, so it was very, very crowded indeed.
Gorgeous, stunning, but we didn't have the experience we were looking for because it was a national holiday.
We're planning to go back soon actually.
Yeah, go on a work day when you can take a day off and really have the wall to yourself.
Yeah, but that you know, it sounds like I was complaining, but we actually knew it was going to be crowded But we wanted to experience that so we would know what it was like.
Yeah, so now I can tell people Don't go to the great wall during a national holiday Well, the reason why i'm interviewing steve of his bottling great segment of the great wall climbing experience is that there's been something New some updates for that, um travel route So, in the Badaling Scenic Spot of the Great Wall, they have newly introduced robotic exoskeletons designed to help tourists climb more easily.
And as quoting from young Guang Peng, which is a guide of the Scenic Spot, the steepest steps at the site can be as high as 40 -50 cm each. I was there earlier last year, I was there on a very clear winter morning.
It was the wrong time to be on the Great Wall.
It was so cold up there, there were no one at all.
But it was cold as, yeah, you just. Fill in the blank.
Yeah, exactly, but.
That must have been a really cool experience though to be on the wall by yourself though.
I mean, I wasn't really like technically by myself, but all of us, we were doing such hard cardio workouts up and down the climbing the stairs on the great wall.
There's like handles that you have to pull in order to move your body up and down.
That's how hard it could be for an adult, a healthy adult and relatively young adult.
Not to mention all the visitors that's coming to the Ba Da Ling segment of The Great Wall each year they come from all backgrounds, all health status.
Okay, so that's a lot of information.
Also, I don't know if this is just a disclaimer everyone, the Ba Da Ling segment is considered the pretty mild segment of the Great Wall.
And they're experimenting with exoskeletons over there and they should definitely employ this for the zhuyunguan segment because that's even steeper.
So tell us, how exactly can you use these robotic exoskeletons?
And last time when we talked about this topic, we know that it can be very expensive to have these armory on you.
And what about this time?
It still is relatively expensive to build one.
But if we're talking about renting these facilities from the tourism site and that was first introduced during this year's Labor Day holiday in May, where many tourists came to the experience, this high tech facility to help them climbing up the Great Wall.
This is new, right?
Because I was there a few months ago and this was not available when we were there.
But it's not that expensive, is it?
Yeah. I mean, no, because according to the guide who worked there, you can just rent just a whole set of the facility with about 101, which is almost $14 per three hours.
And three hours is pretty much all the time you need if not a little bit exceeding that time for just having a whole picture going through the entire segment for yourself.
The rental process is relatively simple as well.
Visitors with a relatively higher online payment rating can waive the deposit and only need to sign a liability waiver agreement related to their physical health and then get a full set.
and that full set it's a cool -looking set.
I saw the report of reporters putting them on trying out.
It literally looks like a suit of armor.
It weights approximately at about 3 .5 kilograms once the battery is installed.
It's not that bad for adults and users they can easily wear the device just like wearing clothes.
Staff on the site said that the device is made of aerospace grade aluminum alloy and the high strength carbon fiber so it's supposed to be lighter than how it was previously designed with all metal. And its bionic joint design adapts to the body's natural range of motion allowing for long -term wear without a sense of restriction.
I doubt that because usually when you wear that kind of facilities you pretty much feel like they do not comply with each and every segment of your own movement all the time.
That's how I felt when I put those stuff on.
Yeah. But when you put it on, did you put it on your upper body?
Both upper body and lower body.
Yeah. With the support on the waist. I didn't see the video from what they're doing at the Great Wall, but I did watch a video, it was a CGTN report from Mount Tye and the reporter there put on the exoskeleton and it wasn't cumbersome.
It didn't look cumbersome at all.
it wasn't upper body, it's just something that goes around your waist down to your knees.
There's a section that wraps around your knees and then up the sides of your legs, if I remember correctly.
Yeah, weighs about three and a half kilograms. And the idea is that especially with Mount Tai, right, I mean, that's over 7 ,000 steps.
Hundreds of hundreds of floors if you were to include that in an apartment building or something.
The comments were, yeah, it helps you a lot, you know, going up the stairs, and this is great for people, especially on that kind of hike.
For people who have bad needs or not.
I mean, you need to be in Olympic level shape to be able to tackle that task.
But what they said was, when you take it off, you get used to the assistance.
And then you just collapse on the floor.
And it's suddenly hard to actually walk by yourself after you take off this kind of really cool machine.
Sorry, this is so interesting.
This is almost like, you know, in Transformers, you see those, you're like putting yourself the Transformer gear, in a way.
And I wonder if you still need to muster your own strength at all, or is it more like you're just relying on the device to push you, lift you?
It doesn't carry you, right?
No, it doesn't. It's more of just the support.
It's not that you're wearing those facilities and all of a sudden you become Spider -Man.
No, that's not how it works.
So, it offers assistance to you because it's, most of these devices, devices nowadays, they are integrated with AI algorithm so that they are trained.
I watched some videos online who said that these exoskeletons plus AI, these products they are trained to be programmed to adapt to your speed of movement, the direction you're going.
They're adjusting itself in order to suit you better.
And even it can judge which side of your limb is weaker, so that you probably need more support on that particular size.
That's why some people after taking it off feels powerless.
Because they, while they're climbing, they're still using their own strength.
Just a lot of the strength is replaced by that support from the exoskeleton facilities you're wearing.
So by that being said, you're still not Spider -Man.
You're still climbing it yourself.
The experience of enjoying this climb is still yours.
It's not the machine's.
Kind of like that. So who do you think are the people who are the primary renters of us.
I would think that it's...
Me? Why Steve? If you think about, oh this is only for the elderly because they can't walk up, you know, Mount Tai or Badaling or wherever by themselves.
I don't think so. I mean, yes, that's obviously true and I think that that's a really wonderful assistance tool for people might feel that they can't accomplish that task on their own but also anyone who wants to tackle the challenge you know when we say, oh sections of the Great Wall are steep we're not kidding it gets really really steep and Mount Ty was the other example from that CGTN report.
I watched a video where people and I went onto the internet to see what people were commenting about the experience, they say going down is harder than going up.
And going up is nearly impossible just walking by yourself because it takes hours and hours, right?
But your legs, your muscles are just so shot after going up that going down.
In the video I watched people's legs were literally shaking, literally shaking.
So even if you're in decent shape, having this kind of assistance tool can really help you out.
And I think maybe even help you enjoy the experience a little bit more if you're looking more for the scenic aspect of the of the task as opposed to the physical extreme physical challenge but a lot of user feedback that i've heard is not really all agreeing on how much convenient it brings because sometimes well for take the battling segment of the Great Wall's new exoskeleton rental facility for example they only allow people from Ranging from the height of 1 .6 meters to 2 meters, the adults rent and use it and it's not even classified in female and male figures Because we know that sometimes
the body motion may vary due to the gender Not to mention the kids, there's not yet the sizes for children That's right, it's only with a certain range of height and kids wouldn't qualify And yeah why should they qualify?
Their little legs need some exercising.
I sound very brutal.
Oh and if you're thinking, oh OK, well, I can just take the cable car to the highest section of Bada Ling.
I don't need to walk.
Well, yes it was a national holiday.
But when we went, I bought, for my wife and I, I bought the cable car tickets, which are a little bit expensive.
And they should be.
But the line up for the cable car was almost two hours, I think so we just decided to ditch that idea and just walk a little bit on the wall ourselves.
So the cable car isn't always an option and it's not just robotic legs or cable cars China's scenic spots are quietly undergoing a high -tech upgrade that's making nature feel a lot more effortless I suppose.
What is this idea of painless tourism and how is it changing the way people experience the outdoors.
It's really interesting we call it painless tourism.
That is a new trend that's applauded by many for offering stress free ways to cut loose and enjoy the holiday labor -free and that has quietly redefined the ways tourists venture outdoors and make nature's splendor more accessible to say a wider range of travelers.
Nowadays old people, they can also be on a cruise, be climbing the very steep, great wall steps with the help, so that's all very much helping to allow people to enjoy the tourism spot in a better way.
Yeah, guys, when we no longer wait overnight for our favorite singer's new album release, skip reading the full book in favor of short video summaries or putting on an exoskeleton into the top of the mountain to get there instead of climbing at ourselves, does that make us enjoy the reward any less?
I don't think so. I mean, critics will say, yes it does, but - but I don't - I don't think it does, because not everybody's up for the most extreme kind of experience, right?
Have you heard of wimp rafting before?
this is like whitewater rafting but for people who aren't looking for that extreme vibe it's a chill vibe and they're doing that now it's it's an option at one scenic area here in the country famous for its rafting and it's more of a chilled -out experience yeah you get the safety gear but you can just lie down flat and you allow the current to carry you along the river current and And they call it wimp rafting, which I think is condescending.
It is a little bit.
It's popular, though.
It attracted 10 ,000 visitors in 2024, and they had a daily peak of 300 people doing it.
So there's a demand for it.
Yes. And perhaps, OK, I hold a slightly different point of view.
It's not about whether the climb is easier, but whether ease dulls the meaning a little bit.
When we take the lift instead of stairs in some these scenic spots in China have sightseeing lifts.
When we stream the album instead of lining up for it or swipe through highlights instead of watching the whole movie or book unfold what are we really trading?
Effort for efficiency, time for access or presence for speed?
There's nothing wrong with making things more exclusive, more possible for more people.
But maybe we should also ask ourselves...
when everything comes easy, do we lose touch with what makes something feel truly rewarding?
Coming up next, Motivational Monday!
Steve Hatherly, what do you have for us for this motivational Monday?
It sounds like something pretty special.
Yesterday my wife and I celebrated our one year anniversary in China.
We arrived in the middle of June, and we actually didn't realize it until a couple of days before.
We're like, wait a minute, didn't we arrive at this time last year?
It was exactly yesterday.
It was a whirlwind year.
It went by very, very quickly, but we enjoyed the first year.
It's kind of a settling in experience and we're just about to start our second year, which is a really exciting too But this is part of the Motivational Monday that I wanted to share, you know us moving here us being here in a new place Every time we go out and explore somewhere We feel like tourists and it's all part of this life adventure that my wife and I we share a love for that You know new foods new places We were speaking at lunch today mount ties on our list of places to go now We want to try and tackle that task.
So my point is this, never stop exploring, right?
Never give up trying to find and discover new things in life.
No matter how old you are, there's still lots out there to learn.
So that's my Motivational Monday.
Just very quickly, if you don't mind, I want to say hi to someone who sent in a message to the show.
I dropped it on the floor.
Here we go. This is from Claire.
Hi, Claire. Claire said, Steve, I was a fan of yours in Korea.
I've been living in China for 14 years listening to both Korea and China podcasts and clips So when your voice was on roundtable, I was like wait what wait, isn't it?
That's Steve It's so amazing that I can still hear you and hope you're doing well how beautiful the world of radio and media and podcasting Is that I was able to get a message like that from someone who has been following my career perhaps for more 20 years maybe Wow.
So, Claire, you really warmed my heart by sending in that message.
So thank you. So it truly is a motivational Monday today.
That's very heartwarming indeed.
And on Apple Podcasts, please feel free to send more messages to Steve.
And for some reason, we can't respond on Apple Podcasts, but you get VIP treatment.
We see them. You get the shout out from the Roundtable Live show.
And, Yushan, what's your motivation Monday?
I'll try to keep it short okay.
So for those of you who's been following Roundtable, and also our social media posts lately, you probably had already known that me, and the other Roundtable team, Li Ming, Hong Lin included, we've been to southwest China's Guizhou province, and that's my motivational Monday in a way because I've been to business trips multiple times in the past four years after I start working doing what I do here.
I know 4 years for you guys who's been a media professional if not the best in the kind of work for say more than 10, 20 years is literally nothing.
But 4 years for me as going through this journey feels like forever.
This one business trip is somehow very immersive for me to just feel how beautiful the land that I've been reporting about is and how much I can learn from people, local people that I'm interviewing.
So yeah, now it feels like this all have a bigger value and there's so much more to be reviewed about this country we call China.
And that's why we should get everybody out of the studio from time to time to really see the world and come back with fresh stories.
For this Motivational Monday, I want to share Sun Yan Zi or Stephanie Sun's song, Dee Dee or First Day is a super fresh pop track that still bursts with energy and youthful spirit even today.
The beat is so lively it practically makes you want to jump and seize the day.
To me, the song is all about embracing a beginner's mind.
Kind of echoing what Steve just mentioned.
Wiping the slate clean and treating every day like a brand new first day.
No matter where we are in life, whether just starting out or already deep in the journey, holding on to a beginner's mindset keeps us open, curious and growing and it's not about age or experience but about being willing to see the world with fresh eyes, embracing uncertainty, and learning without the heavy weight of expectations.
As a wise man once said, in the beginners mind, there are many possibilities, but in the experts mind, there are few.
That mindset keeps us humble, flexible, and ready for whatever is next.
And guess what, Sun Yan Zi just rocked the Beijing Birdnest stadium this weekend with a massive crowd of 50 ,000 people singing along.
Honestly, if you were like me, setting alarms for every ticket release but still missing out, you are not alone.
What really touched me was hearing about the thousands of fans who didn't get tickets but still gathered outside the stadium to listen.
Inside the crowd might not all be super fans but outside, those are the true diehard fans.
Sun Yanzhi, or Stephanie, even gave a shout out from the stage and you could hear the loud heartfelt support from outside.
All in all, here's to the first day.
Di Yi Tian, may it kickstart your best day yet.
Let's live it up and make today count.
And that brings us to the end of today's show.
Thank you so much Steve Hatherly and Yu Shen for joining the discussion.
Thank you for tuning in.
You can find us on Apple Podcasts at Roundtable China.
I'm He Yang. we'll see you next time.
