WBUR Podcasts, Boston.
The universe has good news for the lost, lonely, and heart sick.
Sugar is here, the both of us, speaking straight into your ears.
I'm Cheryl Strayed.
I'm Steve Almond. This is Dear Sugar Radio.
Oh dear song, won't you please?
Share some better sweet days with me.
I check my bedbugs every day.
Oh, and this sugar, you see in my way.
Hi Steve. Hi Cheryl.
It's August and as you know, we have been doing these re-wrongcasts of episodes from letters
that we answered.
And we picked these because we were dying to know what happened.
We're going to broadcast those conversations we had previously and at the end, we're going
to have updates.
Awesome. So this week we're going to be hearing the letter from head or heart. Do you remember
head or heart Cheryl?
I do. She was a 34 year old woman with idyllic childhood. She met this man who she was really
clicking with, but she had some concerns about his past.
Yes, and feared that his past is going to come back and haunt them.
Let's hear that letter and then on the other side of it, we'll all together in real time
get an update.
Dear sugars, I'm a 34 year old woman who has never been married, but has had a number
of long term relationships.
All of my relationships have been safe, meaning the men were pretty conventional, stable,
and came from good backgrounds.
I also come from a very good background. I had an idyllic childhood with almost no big
trauma to speak of. My parents are still married, and I see them often.
Recently, I unexpectedly met the most amazing man whom I immediately fell for. We share
an incredibly deep heart and soul connection. We were immediately head over heels and love,
trusted each other, and both feel as though we've known each other forever.
But there's one thing sugars. He comes from a background full of trauma. His parents,
now divorced, were highly functioning alcoholics, who occasionally physically abused him and
his siblings throughout his childhood.
He has done a fair number of drugs in the past to cope with his situations, and he lives
a pretty unconventional artist's life.
The man I fell in love with doesn't appear to have gone through such immense trauma.
He's emotionally and physically healthy, a very conscious and active participant in life,
has a lot going on creatively, and is so full of love and emotion. He also seems totally
resilient to what has happened in his past.
Despite this, I'm freaked out. I have never known someone with such trauma, let alone
been intimate with him. He is so loving and non-judgmental towards me, yet I can't help
but judge him. I feel terrible for doing so. I love him so much, and I realize he has
made positive decisions every step of the way to better his life and break free of the
awful cycles he experienced.
I'm wondering how it's possible to connect so deeply with someone so different than me.
How can I move forward loving this man I feel so deeply connected to, yet scared by
all the baggage he could potentially bring to the relationship?
I mean, he's asking a very serious question. I'm sure a lot of our listeners can relate
to.
Should I be concerned about people's past? Isn't there past? It's their present as well.
Should I think about and be concerned about these things? Absolutely. But the guy sounds
great.
I agree. This letter spoke to me because I have to say I am somebody who does have these
things in my past. I have suffered the fall out of a childhood that involved a lot of
violence and emotional and sexual abuse.
Dvoris and poverty and all of the different struggles in my past, the people who have
read my books or listened to the show are familiar with.
Yet I'm okay. I have been really all of my adult life. I of course went through a very
difficult period of my 20s. But I came out of those actually really ready to have a
healthy relationship.
I think that head and heart is making that little mistake where it's like she's making
this very neat equation that if you've suffered any kind of trauma it equals you will perpetuate
that trauma in your life. That's absolutely not true. Now that's sometimes true.
We should say it's sometimes true. You absolutely have to heal that trauma to some extent or to
a great extent before you can continue forward in a healthy way. But I have done that.
One thing we know, Steve, you and I are constantly getting letters from people with all sorts
of childhoods. We both know that we have letters from people who had incredibly difficult
childhoods who have become incredibly powerful, wise, resilient adults. Then the reverse
is true. People who have nothing back there in the past and they have very, very difficult
lives and they struggle in all kinds of ways.
And so first I want to say to head and heart, trust what you observe and experience with
your partner. If he seems like a great guy, he probably is a great guy. If he seems like
somebody who's made peace with his past, he's probably made peace with his past. She
doesn't mention how old he is, but we'll just assume that they're about the same age.
At least a decade, more like probably a decade and a half of adulthood, to come to terms
with that childhood he had. And it sounds to me like this is somebody who has done the
work that we so often encourage people to do.
Yeah. Well, I think the anxiety that she's expressing probably is in an exaggerated version
what everybody feels when they meet somebody that they have this intense connection to who
they let into the fortress of their hearts so quickly is is this safe or is there something
lying in weight? Can I trust or am I going to have to brace against the possibility that
I'm going to give my heart to somebody who is not going to be a good custodian, not
because he's a bad guy, but because he's gone through some stuff. And there's some baggage
that it didn't see when we were in the thrall of those early weeks and months where it's
all beautiful and ecstatic.
Can I just put like the highlighter pen over that statement you just made? Is there some
baggage I didn't see when we were in the thrall of those early stages? The answer is yes.
It is always yes. Whatever background you came from, right?
Absolutely, but I think that she's got to listen to what her concerns are. And she might
have a sort of occluded view of them because she came from a background that didn't involve
trauma and alcoholism and divorce and emotional violence. It sounds like, but she is smart enough
to recognize that, and I think it speaks well of her. Look, you can't go through all that
stuff and not have it have an effect on you. And I want to make sure that this guy has
worked through that. Otherwise, in one way or another, I'm frightened that it's going
to crop up.
Yeah.
I absolutely understand what you're saying. It could be that this guy is remarkably resilient
and has done that work and so forth. But her anxiety is not completely one of a sort
of cloistered naive, I think she's honestly saying he went through some heavy stuff.
And I'm wondering if that's going to arise in our relationship. That's a good honest
question.
Okay. Well, let's ask her. We're going to do this new thing. We're actually going to
sort of break that wall between us and all of the people who have problems. And we're
going to call head or heart.
Hello. Hello. Hello. Is this head or heart?
Hi, yes, it is.
Hi, this is Cheryl Stray. I'm here with Steve Almond.
Hi, Steve. How are you guys?
We're good. How are you doing?
Good. Thanks for taking the time to consider my letter.
You know, you're the first person we've talked to who's a letter writer on the show.
Really? Wow. That's amazing.
Yeah. So this is a historic moment.
I'm glad I could be a part of it.
What's about, how old is your boyfriend? Is he your same age?
He is 36.
36.
And how long have you been dating?
Well, so it's quite new. We've only known each other like a month. And immediately we
just have this really like deep soulful connection. Like I said in the letter, we both admitted
that we have not felt this before with another person. That is so.
So it's been a month, but intense.
Yeah.
In the best way possible.
So how'd you meet?
Well, we lived six hours away and I was in another part of the street for a work trip.
And I just happened to go to this coffee shop on the way home before my six hour drive.
And he was there and we just connected and he gave me his name and number like at the
end of our quick five minute talk and then connected from there.
So
Wow.
Of all the Java joints in this world.
I tell all my friends and they're like, that's like a meat queue.
You know, I'm like, it's interesting because I'm thinking like this amazing person walks
into my life and and I'm just like in awe, right?
Like of the universe that this exists and this has appeared in my life and I've been thinking
like, well, you can't help like who you fall in love with or you don't fall in love with,
right?
And so how did the issues that you wrote to us about this concerns about the differences
in your past and especially the struggles in his past?
How did those start to come to the fore for you?
They were brought up initially like in our early phone calls with kind of getting to know
who each other was and kind of sharing our story.
You know, the way he presents them is just like, this is who I am.
You know, it's not like a dumping.
It's not like a heel me help me.
It's more just like, this is my past.
This is who I am.
And so for me, I did say in the letter like that I have some judgment towards him.
And what I kind of want to say more importantly is that in the past I have judged people like
him.
But with him, it's different with him.
It's that I more have compassion.
But there is still a bit of like unease for me because I've never known someone with
such trauma.
Well, what about it scares you?
Like I said, maybe it could create potential baggage in the relationship.
I don't know right now I have no reason to believe that because nothing he has done,
you know, has shown that there would be any sort of that baggage.
But I don't know, like I just worry if those patterns, you know, like could come up in
the future.
I guess that sort of where my fear might come from.
Well, let me just ask a couple of things specifically.
So you mentioned that his parents who are high functioning alcoholics, does that come
up in, you know, does he drink?
Do you look at him drinking and think is this an alcoholic lying in weight?
You see what I mean?
Yeah, that's an interesting question.
And he doesn't drink.
And can I ask him, you know, like flat out, I was just like, so what is your relationship
with alcohol?
And he's like, well, like, to be honest, they don't really drink.
Like I just don't like it.
And they don't like, you know, what it could make me.
And I admire that.
Like I think that's super strong of him.
What about his relationship to drugs?
You mentioned that he's done a fair number of drugs.
Is he describing addiction or recreational use?
Um, just recreational use, but it's just for some reason.
It just kind of, there's me and I know it's the past and he's not, you know, involved
in the same way that he was in the past with those.
But it just, he's just a very different person.
And it's just very interesting to me how he connects so, so deeply.
Right.
Well, it sounds to me like he's a lot edger than the other people you've dated, at
least with an edger past.
And maybe, I mean, you describe such a strong connection.
Maybe a part of that, what's connecting you is that he's maybe more interesting to
you because he has some edge to him.
He has some experiences that are outside of what you yourself have experienced or it seems
even have been exposed to.
Yeah.
And obviously, all of those more conventional kind of safe relationships, you know, didn't
work out, right?
Right.
Right.
And I noticed sort of this pattern that all of those men didn't have this like emotional
intelligence, this emotional openness, you know, the ability to like, dare.
And this guy is so giving.
He's so open.
He's so passionate.
And it's like, oh, this is what I've been looking for.
But then my head is like, but wait, like, you didn't go to college.
He has kind of a broken past.
So it's like there's a constant struggle between my head and my heart.
Yeah.
Well, you know, I am somebody who also has a broken past.
You know, I've experienced many of the things that you mentioned in your letter and other
things as well.
And I just want to say when I read your letter, I was, I'm basically in your boyfriend's
shoes, right?
Here I am, this adult who has this backstory that is full of trauma and hardship and difficult
things.
And I will say that I actually have come to this place in my own life and certainly in
my marriage.
I feel like, and I hope this is a consolation to you, those difficult things that I experienced
in the past actually made me a better partner and made me a better person, a better human,
and really enabled me to do things like this very gig right now, you know, thinking about
other people's struggles and secrets and so forth.
And of course, that can go the other way too.
I feel like the traumas I experienced informed who I became because I responded to them
by really trying to heal my wounds and trying to be resilient and move forward in a positive
way.
And so I just want to say to you, like, just because this is somebody who's experienced
hardship and loss, that doesn't mean that it's going to come up in negative ways in his
adult life.
Now, it probably will come up.
But think about this.
It might come up in positive ways.
You know, this is a man who has survived great difficulty and he's managed to do it with
a lot of, it sounds to me, beauty and grace.
And that's to me, it's like a really amazing attribute.
That maybe it's the reason you think he's so amazing because he kind of is.
Yeah, yeah.
Have you asked him what he's done to heal those wounds of his childhood?
Yeah, actually, we have had some really honest conversations, which I am just so grateful
for.
And so he has, like, he's done a lot of therapy.
And I think that has really helped him.
And also his art, he told me that, you know, the art that he creates is like how he processes
a lot of his emotions.
I think a mix of those two things helped to heal him.
What do you do for a living?
So I'm a photographer.
So you're not a stewardess too.
And so that's, you know, why I mentioned that in the letter because I've always been the
more unconventional one in the relationship.
Uh-huh.
He's out edgeed you.
Yeah, exactly.
I'm like, why do I like he's so conscious and positive and I always thought I was
that, you know, and he's challenging me already in like so many good ways.
Well, maybe you met your match.
Yeah, maybe you did.
Maybe you did.
One thing too, we talk about this a lot on the show.
And I think both Stephen and I in different ways have written about this.
And that is, at many points in our lives, I think we need to really in a conscious way
take stock of, you know, what are the stories that we've told ourselves and then rewrite
that thing.
So it sounds to me like you have told your story about what people from a quote, good
background, what those people are like and then what people from a quote, bad background
are like.
And I think what's going on here is you're finding that people don't fit into those boxes
neatly as maybe you suspected that in fact, you can be somebody who comes from a lot of
difficulty in turmoil and have a very solid, healthy whole life.
Right.
And you're a perfect example of it.
Thank you.
Thank you.
You know what?
I am actually and I'm proud of that.
Yeah.
I'm really very conscious of what I've made manifest in my life.
And without knowing this man and even you don't really know him, I don't mean to diminish
the intense month you've had.
Obviously you know him to an extent.
But I really think you should trust your heart.
And that means that, you know, you're down the line, you might find that this guy isn't
for you.
Time will tell.
But I think that, you know, when you make decisions based on ideas you had rather than
what's actually before you, that's where you go wrong.
And I think that you should trust this feeling that you have of love and affection and respect
and admiration for this man.
You know, the other thing to realize is you're so early on in this.
So I counsel you to, you know, be open and communicate, but also patient.
As Cheryl was saying, like, you're a month into this.
And even though you've opened the door pretty wide, you know, to this guy and you guys are
obviously having these very intense conversations and feelings about one another, you know, be
patient.
It's a long way to go.
Okay.
So, look, and congratulations for meeting somebody fabulous.
That's a fun thing.
A lot of all of all of all of things you can be bewildered by.
This is about as good as it gets.
Will you write to us in a year and tell us what's gone on?
Yes.
I will.
Okay.
No, no, actually, you know what?
We're going to go ahead and be greedy and say six months.
Six months.
And then in like two years, Stephen, I will come and officiate your wedding.
Oh, yeah.
Okay.
Oh, my gosh.
You guys will definitely be happy.
But just for you, Heather Hart, because you're first letter, right?
We talked to Althrow and the bris for free.
If you have a mail job.
Thank you.
Well, thank you for your great advice.
I really appreciate it.
Thank you.
We love to talk into you.
All right.
Thank you so much.
Take care.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Too hot speedy.
Lacky flower.
Know this weighty.
For the power.
For some man.
To this failure.
Sinking slowly.
The water's higher.
Well, one thing that I thought about as we listen to Heather Hart talk was this idea.
She says all my relationships have been safe relationships.
And there was a part of me as I listened to how deeply in the thrall of this relationship
he was, that, well, you're finally in a deeper relationship.
And the deeper you get into any relationship, the more dangerous it gets.
And doesn't have to do with somebody's past as much as it has to do with the present that
you're trying to share with them and the fact that you're really laying it bare.
I think it's probably an appropriate human reaction to be somewhat terrified by that.
Right.
And part of the danger you're talking about, that not being safe in a relationship is
trusting that magic by which I mean the invisible, inexplicable, intuitive, mysterious nature
of chemistry and feelings and emotional connection.
And in this letter before us, what I really hope is that no matter how this relationship
turns out, that we are ultimately always when we're questioning relationships, we're trying
to evolve ourselves.
We're trying to grow personally.
And what I really hope for head and heart is that she takes that idea into her head and
her heart.
That maybe she will find love, whether it be with this guy or someone else, in a way that's
unexpected and that story hasn't already been written, that she needs to write it herself.
It's such a great idea that part of love is magic and I would say that the rest of love
is hard work.
I knew you were going to say that.
You knew I was going to say that.
You're like the oarsmen of the love work.
Well, but listen, yeah, I am.
I know why because it's a long river and you don't know what's coming down the next
bend.
She is telling us about the magic and it's beautiful and it's ecstatic.
But underneath that is the thing that fights against the magic because the magic is thrilling
and also really scary and destabilizing and makes you vulnerable.
What do you have as a Brook Against That?
You have the hard work of communicating with yourself and your own preconceptions about
who the right person is for you is supposed to be and what somebody's past says about
their present and with this guy who clearly is going to be capable.
It sounds like of being honest with her about what his experiences have been and how he's
reacting to her attitudes that she is carrying and you're just nodding your head.
It's a good thing that one of us is a romantic.
I'm a romantic too.
Magic is huge.
It's oarsmen.
But the rest of it is hard work.
World.
But you're right.
You're right.
You're right.
But sometimes we need to forget about that.
She's not in the moment of hard work.
She's in the moment of love.
Just love.
Trust love.
You will not give me that.
I think she's mistrusting it.
I think there's a voice inside of her.
That's why we have her letter.
Cheryl, if she was in the middle of feeling that magic and love we would never have spoken
to her on the phone.
But there's some voice inside of her that isn't going to be defeated by the magic.
The magic's there in spades, in abundance.
And there's still that voice of doubt and anxiety and whatever she's carrying.
That's her baggage basically.
And then she has to do the hard work of communicating that to him and within herself and working
through it.
It would be great if you could snap your fingers and make everybody's ambivalence about
something as terrifying as love go away.
But we don't have that power.
You have that power.
But you only use it in limited cases.
Okay.
Well, you know me, you know my way.
You just can't show me.
But God, I'm praying that you find me.
Did you kill Marlene Johnson?
I think you're one of the first people to have actually us.
From WBUR and ZSP Media, this is beyond all repair.
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Somebody should be in jail for murdering my sister.
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And that's what makes it a cold case.
No, it's a botched case.
And a search for the truth.
Once and for all.
Wow, it just gets more interesting.
Beyond all repair.
Listen and follow wherever you get your podcasts.
Be careful.
You're digging in a place that's been very peaceful for a while.
Do it anyway.
Dig.
Steve.
Yeah.
We're still having that argument.
We'll just keep having it.
No, you're not hearing again.
We went on word and read the credits.
We went on word.
We kind of had a little duel.
We were like, okay, cast your vote.
Were you on team magic, aka team Cheryl or team hard work?
And that's exactly how you just even handed us that.
And we got all the same.
Are you on team slave ship?
Are you on team fairy dust?
We got all these emails and people were very serious about it.
I should know that just for the record, long time listeners of the show will know that
we're both on both teams.
That's right.
We're going to leave the magic of hard work.
Oh.
There we are.
Nicely done.
And I think actually we got a lot of responses.
And essentially they said, yes, we believe in the magic of hard work.
We do.
And that's, you know, I'm in agreement with you that often, that thing that goes off
on our heads like, hey, hey, you know, caution.
That's a good thing to listen to.
But I just, I in my heart, felt instinctually that this woman should trust her heart.
That she had wrong ideas about what it takes to be a resilient whole person.
So I'm dying to know what's up.
Yes.
Well, let's hear it.
So she wrote to us.
She wrote to us, but we haven't heard this.
So let's hear what she had to say.
Okay.
Hi, Cheryl, Steve and Lisa, right?
Lisa Tobin, our wonderful producer.
I realized that more than six months have passed since we last talked.
Which I think we asked her to write to us.
Yes, we did.
We're like, we had a hard, you listened well.
Thank you.
There you go.
Here's, I'm writing to say, drum roll, please.
It's been almost nine months.
And I write this from my bedroom that is messy and half packed for a move to live with
the love of my life this weekend.
Oh my goodness.
She's moving in.
Yes, we are still together and have navigated so many types of waters up until now.
But only because of the hard work that Steve Alman insisted we do.
No, no, no, no, no.
I'm just making that up.
No, no.
Here's what she actually writes.
Here's what she actually writes.
The Cheryl's trade was exactly right.
Okay, of course, that's all just implied.
Okay, what is the latest?
What is the latest?
We're hearing that.
It says, we're still together and have navigated so many types of waters up until now.
But underneath all of it, we have found that there is a deep, deep love, three exclamation
points.
Oh, yeah.
At a heart.
I'm so happy for you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
This is fantastic.
So, all right.
So she writes, let me back up a little.
Since we talked in early November, our relationship continued to grow rapidly from six
hours away with once to twice a month in person visits.
One day on his way back home in early January after staying two weeks with me in Boulder,
he got in a serious rollover car accident.
By the grace of the university walked away completely physically unharmed with his car
being totalled, he was stranded here in Boulder with me for another week.
Now, we all know that that rollover accident was no accident, you know, I mean the subconscious
does its wake.
It was during that week that I fell in love with him even more.
I didn't think that was possible.
I love the metaphor here.
Because she was talking about the ruin and sort of the kind of the big crash of his past,
right?
So he gets in another crash, but rather than driving them apart, it brings them together.
It consecrates their love.
I love it.
It's like a short story we'd write.
Yeah, that's right.
Let's see.
So, I fell in love with him even more.
I didn't think that was possible.
Seeing his resiliency.
Mm-hmm.
Which we wanted out.
Yes, coping with this traumatic experience that will shake one to the core.
There it is.
He was emotionally at an all-time low and the accident really shook up his stable and
comfortable thoughts about himself and his life near, tell you right.
I supported him while he figured things out, got a new car and helped him find his way
back home.
I love that.
Meanwhile, in mid-January, I surprisingly bought my first home near Boulder.
My sweetie was nothing but supportive and in further discussion, it was a no-brainer that
he would move out here to live with me when I closed on the house in March.
With fully aware that six months was an early time to live with a partner granted I've never
even lived with a partner before, we dove in head first.
Hmm.
Or maybe heart first.
On top of moving here, I took on a three-month major remodel in the new home with his
help.
Oh my God.
There we go.
There we go.
There we go.
Yeah.
No, if your relationship can endure a remodel, you're golden.
Yeah.
That you do.
So, let's just say that him moving here at six months, me buying a home, both of us moving
to it this weekend and undertaking a remodel in the first three months has really tested
us and our relationship.
Right.
Given those things are pretty stressful events in one's life, we figured out, let's just
put it all out there at once and see if this will work.
How interesting.
It's like a stress test on a relationship.
That's right.
A relatively short but deep time together has taught us so, so, so, so incredibly much about
each other.
We have navigated each other's strengths and weaknesses and have navigated the baggage
turns out I have baggage too.
There you go.
There you go.
We have learned to communicate with each other and recognize and admit our faults.
Let me read that again for everybody else who's thinking of writing a letter.
We have learned to communicate with each other and recognize and admit our faults.
Rather than pointing out each other's faults.
Imagine that.
I'm taking responsibility for your own faults.
I can't.
I'm trying to imagine that.
I do that.
Steve, I apologize when I berate you on the show.
I'm a smart Alec.
Yeah.
An insolent bossy, you know, all of those things.
I recognize this in myself and I will never, ever change.
And Cheryl, I in return apologize for the excessive humility and grace that I show you, which
I know is very provocative.
All right, here we go.
It hasn't always been perfect.
But when it's messy, we try and be graceful about it.
We say how much we love each other even in the midst of a misunderstanding or disagreement.
Wow.
These people are evolved.
I'm starting to get a little annoyed with them, frankly, just parenthetically seeing very
evolved.
We are both good about seeing our own therapist when necessary to help us through this new
and somewhat stressful time.
We have both never felt something so real and honest and express it all the time.
We talk about how we can't imagine our lives without each other and we've even talked
about marriage.
You remember, you remember your offer, right?
Do you remember our offer, Cheryl?
I don't.
Of course you don't.
I don't.
You and your big, beautiful mouth promise that we would officiate at this wedding.
Oh, boy.
Oh.
It's been about nine months since we met and fell in love and about three since he's been
here living with me.
This weekend we will officially move into my house together, albeit still a little under
construction.
That's a beautiful metaphor.
It's true for all of us all the time, still a bit under construction and start our new
life together.
He has his own studio where he can be creative and make his art.
And I have my office where I can also live my passion as a photographer together with
the love of my life.
I followed my heart thanks to your great advice and my head followed not too far behind.
So back to the big question at the end of your podcast.
Uh-huh.
I think you were both right.
There's both magic and hard work, but it's the magic that makes the hard work worth
doing.
You're preparing your ceremony, meaning wedding ceremony.
Thanks, sugars, kindly, head or heart.
Oh, that's so sweet.
I think that that's what I'm trying to say when you know, when I was saying, okay, it's
about magic.
The magic is what makes me willing to do the hard work.
Yeah.
You know, I think it really, sometimes we get these letters from people who say, do I really
have to continually work on this relationship?
And you know, I think sometimes the answer is no.
If it's really only work for a long time and you don't feel any of that magic, no,
I'm not saying sometimes that magic, you don't feel like every day, every moment.
Right.
But if you don't have it core, that sense that you're in the right place with the right
person, then yeah, I actually don't think then.
I mean, you can, you can, it's not only about work.
That's right.
You cannot hard work your way.
Yeah.
You cannot, it doesn't matter how much would you have if there's no spark, there's no
fire.
We both completely agree in what strikes me as so just astonishing and beautiful about
this note is just how self-reflective and in the moment, you know, head where the heart
is.
And you know, you never know in the early phases of relationship, but it seems to me they
have kind of put themselves into enough pressurized situations, moving in real quickly,
remodeling the house, this accident which clearly shook both of them up in ways that
were actually in the end, in the short term, very frightening and upsetting, but in the
long term, again, a kind of a stress test for where they're going to be able to really
communicate through the tough times, keep the fire going when the winds are blowing or
whatever mangled metaphors necessary.
So that's just beautiful.
What it's a light to hear from you?
We are so happy for you.
Yes.
And okay, okay.
I'm going to start, you know, figuring out what dress I'm going to wear to your wedding
pretty soon here.
And you're not the only one who's going to start figuring out what dress to wear to their
wood.
Are you going to have to wear a staff?
I'm thinking tall.
I've got a whole plan.
Congratulations on your love and your joy, head or heart.
And no matter where this heads next, you know, let's just take one step at a time.
That's right.
We wish you both love wherever that may lead you.
Absolutely.
And please tune in next week.
We'll have another update for you.
Update Paloza will continue through the month of August.
They'll have big, bold new episodes coming in September and beyond.
But check back next week to hear the next update.
Your Sugar Radio is produced by WBWR, we're produced and edited by Lisa Tobin.
We're recording in Portland, Oregon and our engineer is Josh Milliman of Talk Back Sound
and Visual.
Our theme music is by the Portland Band Wonderly.
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And if you feel so moved, we'd love if you'd leave a review.
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