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I have been listening to the Martha's Vineyard Beach and Book Club, which actually Elena recommended to me.
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Yay! Hey, weirdos. I'm Ash. And I am still Raspi Elena.
And this is a mini-morbid. Mini, mini, mini, mini, mini morbid.
Mini morbid, mini morbid, mini morbid. You did it.
I know. And it's Ash-centric. But it's kind of like Elena-centric because I did the damn thing.
She did. I stayed up until like 3.45 in the morning.
Research in AF. You did in Elena. I did.
And I see it. I see the pages of research in front of me right now.
Look at all of it. And I still apologize that I still sound like Lindsay Lohan.
I think that you shouldn't apologize. I think I should apologize for not sounding like Lindsay Lohan.
Well people are happy that they can finally tell us apart now.
That's true. Because I'm the one that sounds like I'm dying.
Yeah, Alina's dead. But you know, I'm drinking tea.
I'm trying to make it go away, guys. There's a reason for the vocal fry that we'll explain to you later.
It's true. If you stay tuned until the middle of the episode.
What a good way to make you all listen. Yeah.
Later on in the episode, we have some fun news.
Yeah. So... Should we just hop right into my minimal, babe?
I think we should. All right. So I went on the Instagram and asked you guys for some suggestions.
And a lot of people said, do Susan Powell.
So, woo! I did Susan Powell. She did it.
And I didn't really know this case. I'd heard of the name, but I didn't know any details. crazy details about the case and my life has been ruined so thank you.
It's a bonkers case. I stayed up I'm very late watching a documentary about it.
And then I was like reading articles and all this stuff.
I listened to a podcast about it. Shout out to Crime Junkie.
They did a pretty good episode on it. We love Crime Junkie.
I love them so much. But here's my episode on it.
Yay. So Susan Cox Powell and Josh Powell got married April 6th, 2001.
They had only dated for two months before they got engaged.
Wow, that's love. Yes, totally. And Susan's family was skeptical.
Weird. Yeah. I think she was like 19 and he was 23, I want to say, when they got married.
Okay. Which... Like 19 is like pretty young to get married after only knowing somebody for two months.
Yeah, I think that that compounded on top of it makes it like... Maybe take a second.
They... They met at like a church function kind of thing for like young singles.
They were both involved in the LDS church, which is the Church of the Latter-day Saints.
Yes. So, like I said, her parents were skeptical and her sisters and her mom urged Susan not to marry Josh.
There was just like something about him that they didn't like.
He seemed to be pretty arrogant, attention seeking. creepy and they couldn't put their finger on it but something was just wrong about him oh that's not good you gotta listen to people when they do that when they say I can't put my finger on it but there's something weird here you gotta listen And it wasn't just like one person felt this way.
It was like her mom, her sisters, her friends.
A lot of people were like, I don't know.
Because if it's just your mom, you're like, all right, mom, relax.
But if it's everybody around you, it's like you're like, I don't know.
There could be a notion to this. There might be a common denominator here.
Right. It might be this creep. And actually, Susan's mom remembered saying to Susan, I look at Josh and I see darkness.
Ooh. Which is like something I totally feel like Ma would say.
I was just thinking that. Because she just can read the future.
Yeah. My mom would 100% say that. You know what she would say?
She'd go... There's just darkness around him.
Yeah. And she'd move her hand very mystically.
Yeah. Like she just feels it. And then I would trust her.
And then I'd be like, bye, Josh. My Uber is here.
So they got married anyways. Susan loved him.
The two things that Susan wanted most in life was to be a mom and a mother.
I almost said... She wanted to be a mom and a mother.
Yeah. She wanted to be a wife and a mother.
Like those were two of like the very most important things to her, which I get.
She just seemed like so pure. Oh, yeah.
So after they were married, they got married in Puyallup, Washington.
That's where they lived for a little bit.
That sounds like a fun place. Puyallup. P-wallop.
It's just fun to say. P-wallop. P-wallop?
Yes. I like it. But they moved to Utah and that's when they started their family.
They had two sons together, Charlie and Braden.
Oh, cute. Those are the cutest names ever.
And for a little while, they were, like, really happy.
For a little while. For a little while. Oh no.
But things, as they always do, went downhill.
Yeah, this podcast is never like, things just kept going great.
And they bought a house and then they saved some money and they got a nice car. they got a 401k they retired early um wow actually my heart just hurt a little bit I know right So Josh was quick-tempered.
Like, he never, from what I read, he never physically hurt Susan in their marriage.
Like he never like hit her or anything, but he would like break things and like yell a lot.
So he threw adult temper tantrums. Correct. yeah correct correct and he was very controlling he controlled every last thing that's no good she wasn't allowed to drive the family car without permission she had to bike seven miles to work on like a busy road.
In some sources, I don't know if this is totally true, but I read a couple places and Crime Junkie also stated this.
He made her knit her own socks. I just want to know the reasoning.
I know there's no rational reasoning. To save money is in his mind.
To save money, she needed to knit her own socks.
He was super controlling. Socks don't seem like that big of an expense, I feel like.
Like, I've never calculated what I spend on socks, but I feel like it doesn't make that big a dent in our budget.
Do you know what? I never really wear socks.
I barely wear socks. This is really gross, but when I wear sneakers, I don't wear socks.
Yeah, that's gross. But I just hate the feeling.
It constricts my toes. But then your feet are smelly.
I came out of the womb with smelly feet.
I'm trash. Goodbye. Oh, he also controlled like what the kids ate.
Like he wanted them to split a hot dog rather than each have their own hot dog.
So just like weird, like neurotic things?
Like it was just to control something, I think.
It had no actual reasoning behind it. It was just like, I want it that way.
So that's how it goes. Yeah, it wasn't like, oh, they're having a big dinner, so let's just do half a hot dog.
It was like, no, I just need to have – Control over this.
And also, like, he didn't like to do the cooking.
Like, she did the cooking. Yeah. It was just, I don't know.
He was just, like, too much. Like, he was really on another level.
Yeah, it sounds like that. But she didn't want to get a divorce because her faith was very important to her and they are not huge proponents of divorce.
Yeah. So she tried to make it work. But after a while, things started to get like shittier and shittier.
And Susan started asking her friends what her legal options were.
Wow. It started to just get bad. So she was planning on actually making a move.
I don't know if Josh caught wind of this, if he found something that gave him information that she was like...
Thinking about leaving if she might have given him given him an ultimatum.
That's what I've heard in some places that she was like, if you don't shape up by like this date, like I'm fucking out of here. good for her i hope that's what she did yeah um but he said to her over my dead body will you leave me and over my dead body will you take those boys away from me Oh, that's no good.
And her sister heard him say that to her.
Oh, that's so no good. Yeah, which is so, so fucked up.
Yeah, that threat is never an empty threat.
I feel like whenever it's said in these cases, you're like, eee.
I don't think either in my life have I ever been like over my dead body.
I don't think. Yeah. That's a very. I definitely never said it in like a threatening way to someone.
No, no. So that's kind of like the background of their little family dynamic.
Dynamic, exactly. Let's flash forward a little bit to December 7th, 2009.
Josh's mom calls 911 to report Susan, Josh, and the two boys missing.
Oh no. Susan and Josh should have already left for work.
The boys were normally dropped off at daycare at this point.
And I think the daycare woman was like, this is super weird.
Like, they should be here by now. So she called... like the emergency contact I believe was Josh's sister and then Josh's sister lived with his mom and she was like Everyone was just like, this doesn't make sense.
Where are they? Yeah. So they call... How old were the...
Kids. At this point, they were, I want to say they were two and four at this point.
Oh, so little. They were little babies. And they're so cute.
So police go to the home and they end up breaking in with the permission of Josh's family, his mom and his sister. to the home through a window and immediately a few things struck the police as odd. the couch had been freshly cleaned and there were two box fans hooked up and blowing onto the couch as if to be like drying it.
Yeah. Susan's purse was in her bedroom, like untouched.
And the house was completely locked up. That's weird.
So it just didn't make any sense. Yeah. And also fresh snow had fallen and there was no tracks leaving the house or entering the house.
Huh. So it was, like, whatever happened, like, they haven't been here in a while.
So... Jovanna Owings was a family friend of Susan and Josh's, and she was the last person to see the family before all of this happened.
So she went over there the day before and basically she was at their house just hanging out with Susan and Josh was in the kitchen making pancakes with the boys the night before.
Okay. It was like early afternoon. The weird part about the fact that Josh was making pancakes is like I said earlier, he never really cooked.
Oh, yeah. Like he wasn't that wasn't his thing.
Susan did the cooking. Huh. But shortly after finishing the pancakes, Giovanna said Susan told her she wasn't feeling well.
She was like super tired and she just wanted to go lay down.
So she was like, I'll talk to you later.
Like, thanks for coming over. and josh like hurried uh giovanna out of the house and was like i'm gonna take the boy sledding so like i'll see you later bye and he like peeled out of the driveway before she even got into her car Wow.
Yeah. And she was just like, I don't know.
Something sketchy about that. It was just weird.
Yeah. Just very strange. So the day the family is reported missing, no one's heard from them in 18 hours.
Okay. And then all of a sudden, Giovanna gets a hold of Josh because she's been calling Susan and Josh.
And she tells him that everyone's been so worried and like, where are they?
And he says, oh, me and the boys are over in West Valley.
I took them camping last night. And Susan should be at work or something.
And she's like, well, yeah, everyone's really worried.
Like Susan never showed up to work and. where like you guys have been gone forever what's going on you're like hi like she was like the police are at your house you need to get here this is actually serious.
We called the popo. Yeah, exactly. Like this is for real.
Yeah. So he's like, oh, okay. Like I'm on my way home.
But then he turns around, drives 20 minutes in the opposite direction, and leaves Susan a voicemail telling her that he's on his way home.
Hopefully you got to work okay. He says, hey, we're on our way back.
Hopefully you got to work okay. Like, one, why did you turn around to make the call?
And two, she just told you, Giovanna just told you that she never showed up for work.
So why are you calling her saying, I hope you got to work okay?
Yeah. Ellis Maxwell was the lead detective on the case.
And he calls Josh and he's like... Dude, where are you?
What are you doing? Like you said you were supposed to like you were on your way.
Like what's going on? And he's like, your wife is missing.
She never showed up to work. This has gone on for far too long.
Like, get home. So you're looking creepier by the second, dude.
Yeah, exactly. So Josh is like, OK, yeah, I'm on my way home.
I just have to feed the kids. Oh, yeah.
Let's eat a meal first. And also like you just want like you normally just give them half a hot dog.
So like can you just get home and find half a hot dog in the fridge and give it to them?
And literally it's like your wife and their mother is missing.
Right. Maybe a meal can wait. Exactly. And like he's just telling you to come home.
Like you don't have food there. Like there's food there.
I don't understand. You're not going to like Jupiter.
Exactly. So he's like, okay, please just come home because we want to talk to you.
And Josh was like, okay. And then instead of going home, he goes to Susan's work.
So he leaves her a voicemail and he's like, hey, Susan, it's me.
I'm outside of your work. I'm here to pick you up.
Come on out. And it's like, no, she never showed up to work.
We have told you this. Giovanna told you this.
The detective told you this. They are telling you to get home.
So instead of turning around and driving in the opposite direction and then going to her work and being like, hey, I'm here. maybe go home and find out where your wife is because she's nowhere to be found.
That is... The weirdest. And that he's not being like, hey, I'm outside.
Are you in there? Like, everyone's freaking out.
Right. He's just like... I'm outside, babe.
Just here to pick you up, girl. And he's like, nope, she's not in there, sir.
We've told you this. Like, your wife is missing.
Like a detective is telling you this. It's so weird.
So obviously she never comes out because she's not at work.
And so Josh finally returns home and Maxwell, the detective, is like, all right, we're going to go down to the station just to...
Just ask you a few questions. It's fine.
Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it.
We just need to cover all our bases, figure out where Susan could be.
And Josh tells Maxwell the last time he saw Susan was at midnight the night before.
Like I said, he had taken the boy sledding.
I think it was around like 4.30, 5.00. ish when they went sledding they came home watched a movie he couldn't remember what movie they watched he thought it was like one it was like a christmas movie She was like, we watched a Christmas movie.
I don't remember which one. It's like, yeah, movie names are hard.
Especially within like 12 hours. It was last night.
It wasn't that long ago. And then he was like, I decided to take the kids camping at midnight.
As one does. And like it didn't bother me that it was a snowstorm.
No. And it's fine. Yeah. They really wanted to make s'mores, so we went camping.
I often take my children camping in the middle of the night during a snowstorm.
Yeah. I don't get what's wrong with this.
I don't understand what the big deal is.
Nothing's weird at all. To take your two and four year old camping in the middle of the night.
Yeah. That's a very regular. To take them anywhere in the middle of the night is totally fine.
Yeah, it's fine. Like I put them to sleep so that I can wake them up in the middle of the night.
Exactly. To go bring them somewhere. So they were like, okay.
They were like, that's probably legit. They were like, you took your two and four year old kids camping at midnight in 18 degree weather with a storm coming.
Okay. He's like, it all adds up to me. That makes sense.
So the detective is like, oh, let me write that all down.
He's like, okay, well, Susan never showed up to work, like I've told you 45 times.
So where else would she have gone? And Josh goes...
I don't know. I feel like she would have tried to go to work.
Dude. I'd be like... Are we, like... Failing to communicate with one.
Does the word work mean something different in Josh language?
What's happening? She's not. How are we having a breakdown of communication?
I don't know if she tried to go. It didn't work out. and so he's like well okay she never got there and he's like well I don't know where she could be like can I leave now And just he's like, he's like done with the interview.
What? He's like, I'm ready to go. I mean, they can't keep him.
They don't have anything. So he's like, yeah, you can go.
My wife and the mother of my children, I don't know where she is.
I don't know where she could be. Can I just... leave now yeah like i'm not i got shit to do i ain't got no worries yeah hakuna matata What a wonderful phrase.
What is this dude? So they make plans to do because this wasn't like a formal interview.
So they're like. come back tomorrow for a formal interview at this time.
And he's like, okay, cool, see you then.
Because your shit is off. Because there is something going on here that we don't know about.
And you definitely have the answers. So the next day he's supposed to go in at some point in the morning.
Josh's mom and sister go over to the house and he's cleaning the house and his car.
Like cleaning everything up, which is weird because he like was like Susan did the cooking and the cleaning.
Yeah. He didn't really lift a finger. And he's supposed to be at his interview at the time that they get to his house.
And his sister's like, why are you not at your interview?
You need to go. Let's go, buddy. So he shows up to his interview four hours late with no explanation as to why he's four hours late.
One might say that's excessively late. Very late.
Like if I showed up four hours late to work, I think my boss would be like, Why don't you go home and never come back?
That's tardy as fuck. Yeah. Don't be tardy for the party.
For your interview. Yeah. Like, Josh, come on now.
So, like I said, no explanation as to why he's late.
And Maxwell's like, you know what? Whatever, because I'm probably not going to get any answers out of you.
So let's just start this fucking interview.
Because you are the strangest man. He's like, something has gone awry here and I'm going to find out what it is.
Yeah. It's fine that you're four hours late.
So he's like, you know what's weird, Josh?
Like, you kept calling Susan. But you had her phone.
Oh. So, like, why were you doing that? And Josh was like, oh, I forgot that I had her phone.
Like, I didn't realize it was there. And Maxwell was like, okay.
I feel like he's just trying to say these bonkers things as confidently as possible.
Oh, I didn't even know I had her phone. Don't believe me if I say it with a lot of confidence.
He doesn't even have a lot. He's just like, he's just like, but that's it.
That's the thing. He's like, I just, I just, I just didn't know how to, the sky is yellow.
Literally. Like I feel like at some point in his life he said that.
It just is. That's just the way it is. And it's just like everyone around him is going to be like, You know what, Josh?
You're right. It is. All right. Moving on.
I've always thought the sky was yellow. He's like, yeah, well, that's weird anyways.
He's like, does Susan have any enemies? Like, was she suicidal?
Was she depressed? Like, where the fuck could she be, bruh?
Help. Help. And Josh hops all over that.
And he's like, oh, yeah. She was suicidal.
She's enemy of the state. Like, absolutely.
Everyone hates her. Which is not true at all.
He didn't say she had any enemies. I don't think he could have because she was... very very into her church and she made tons of friends in this church like she had a lot of friends so he knew even that would have flown But he was like, she was she was definitely suicidal.
He was like, you know what? And everyone is like, yeah, no, not at all.
Like, that doesn't make any sense. So they finish up the interview and also inform him that they got a search warrant for his home and for his car...
And that they were right now finishing up the search of his car.
And that he could... make himself comfortable in the waiting room and or like the waiting area whatever the fuck they do in interviews I've never been arrested well he wasn't arrested at this point either but that they would be done in about like 15 minutes or so so just hang out and you can have your car back hang tight josh Instead of hanging out, he takes a taxi to the airport. and rents a car at the airport.
He's really good at following directions.
So, and the thing was, it was only going to be like 15 minutes.
Like it wasn't going to be a very long time for his car to be, And they were going to give it back to him.
It wasn't a matter of like, well, it's going to take a few days.
Yeah. It was like, just wait a little bit.
They're like, just wait out here for a minute and we'll be done.
Right. And he was like, no, I'm all set.
He's like, I'm going to drive to the airport and rent a car.
So he ends up putting... over 800 miles on this rental car and disappeared for 20 hours.
That's a lot of hours to just be MIA. And to put 800 miles on a car.
Like, where are you going, bro? Where did you go?
And I watched this documentary on oxygen.
It was called, like, The Susan Cox Powell Disappearance. and creative it was truly very creative and they like mapped out all the places that he could have gone and it was like insane like he there are so many options but nobody knows where the fuck he went he's totally unaccounted for in those 20 hours that's so weird and what's also weird because you think like no one can be unaccounted for for any amount of time now No.
And I mean, it's just it doesn't make any sense.
But also during those 20 hours, Josh's dad, Steve, is also unaccounted for and he doesn't show up for work during this time and his phone was entirely shut down.
What is this family doing? Exactly. I need to know.
Exactly. So once police learn this information they learn how close Josh is with his dad.
They have this weird relationship. They're bros.
I had a feeling. Yeah. And they decide to interview Steve.
And this is when shit gets fucking weirder than weird.
Oh, God. Like this case is bizarre. It is bizarre.
So Steve admits that he has very deep feelings, quote unquote, for Susan and says she, quote unquote, craved his attention.
Now this is his dad. This is Josh's dad, so Susan's father-in-law.
And he's saying, I had very deep feelings with her.
She craved my attention. Nothing is at all awful and scary about that.
No, not at all. Nope. So skipping ahead a little bit, at the end of this case, the police get their hands on these videos that Steve's been taking for years. of Susan at like family events, at like cookouts, but also when she's leaving her work job.
And her work job. I don't know why I said that.
And like. across rooms when she's unaware oh I hate it it is have you seen have you ever seen any of them no oh It is the most terrifying.
I was nauseous. I've never seen them, but I hate them.
Yeah. Oh, you hate them. Like I'm so disturbed just thinking about them right now.
So, like I said, some of them she's, like, aware of.
Like, they show him videoing Susan putting on makeup and she's, like... She's obviously uncomfortable.
Like, she's, like... Okay, like, why don't we need to video?
And this family, like, they must have videoed everything because this documentary that I watched, it's two parts and each part is an hour and a half long.
And there's like so much footage. Like it was like a different video all the time.
So like he has some of her putting on makeup, talking at family cookouts.
But like I said, they get weirder and weirder.
He zooms in on her butt or he zooms in on her legs and he says things like, God, I worship her.
Oh, God. And at one point she, I don't think she was aware of this video because it looks like she's leaving work and he's videoing from like across the parking lot.
And she gets into her car and she just kind of, like, when she sits down, like, almost, like, scratches her leg or, like, fixes her skirt.
She just, like, touches her leg. And he goes, oh, she did that for me.
Oh, my God. Yeah. That's some like creepy voyeur nightmare.
So then I learned that at one point in time before they moved to Utah, Josh was like in between jobs.
He had just lost his job. which is I think it was very hard for him to hold down a job as like a running theme in this case.
So they were living with her with. With Steve.
Josh and Susan were living with Steve. And that's kind of when he took a lot of these videos.
Yeah, that must have been a comfortable situation.
And also that's when he made advances towards Susan who was like, yeah.
I'm not interested in you because you are my father-in-law and I'm married to your son.
Correct. And that's kind of when she was like, Josh, like I'm all set with this shit.
Like bye. That would be terrifying. Yeah.
And I've, I've, I read different accounts on, like, how Josh handled it.
In some articles I read that he was like, okay, like, let's get the fuck out of here and that's why they moved to Utah.
And then I've read some where he was, like, my dad's harmless and, like... Like, how dare you?
Yeah, like, fuck you. But either way, they moved, like, very...
Very quickly because of this. So, like I said, she lived there.
So Steve also has videos of stolen clothing of Susan's, which he refers to being like, they smell so good.
Including bras and underwear. Oh, that dude's a straight up killer.
Yeah. Like that dude. Oh. you have to watch these two documentaries because, and he also, Josh was very into himself and I think it came from Steve Because Steve was like very clearly narcissistic and he's disgusting.
Like I'm going to go and said he's he's gross, obviously, because of what he does.
But also he's yucky looking. He looks like a creeper that I would be like, walk faster.
He just oozes it. He oozes slime ball. And he like takes these like videos doing creepy shit and then he like pans up to the mirror and he has this like weird smile and he's like...
Ew. It's weird as fuck. He's a fucking monster.
It's the most bizarre thing that my eyes have ever laid witness upon.
It's weird. Hate it. yeah so also apparently shit gets really weird and I don't know this is like speculated but I also read in one place that Steve suggested that he and Josh share Susan.
Oh, I was waiting for that. Yeah. I was totally waiting for that.
Yeah, it's not total confirmed, but it is in some places.
I could totally see that. Yeah. 100 so they move the fuck out of there and it's like i said it's unclear what his whole deal was with his dad after that but i don't think they talked for like a little bit and their relationship was super weird Yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah. So obviously, I'm sure that puts so much strain on their relationship.
Like, even though they got away from it, it's like...
Your dad is like not going to just like go away.
He's fucking obsessed with me. And he's in our lives.
Forever. He's your dad. He's your dad. He's the fucking grandparents to my children.
He's a fucking weirdo. But that wasn't their only issue.
Josh was getting more and more controlling.
He limited Susan's spending to like $100.
She could only spend on gas. and food fuck like i said this is this is when she wasn't allowed to use the family car anymore and she had to bike seven miles to work So like I said before, she didn't want to get divorced, but she also wasn't stupid.
Yeah. So this is when she contacted a divorce lawyer.
A divorce lawyer. A divorce lawyer. a divorce lawyer who told her to walk through the house and record all of her assets throughout the house. this video knowing what you know at the end of this case is fucking bone chilling Because she's just walking through the house and she's like, you can tell that she's just like very bubbly and like.
Even while she's doing this, she's talking to the kids.
It's just sad. She also wrote a will and testament up and said, and she wrote on it, for the family and friends of Susan.
Whoa. She also wrote that... and wanted to leave a paper trail and wrote, if I die, it may not have been an accident, even if it looks like one.
Whoa. Yeah. That is specific. Very, very specific.
And very smart. They show pictures of it in the documentary that I watched, and it's so creepy.
It's in her handwriting, and it's like, obviously.
But it's just like, can you imagine being in that position where you're literally sitting there being like, I fear for mine and my children's safety?
Yeah. And if something happens to me. It probably wasn't an accident.
Like you're literally sitting there having to be like, when something awful happens to me.
Yeah. At the hands of my husband. In the video, she says it too.
She's like, in case anything happens. And then she's like, I hope everything works out and we all live... And she goes... happily ever after and she like kind of rolls her eyes in the video oh that's so sad it's i like have chills right now thinking about it because it's like girl you can yeah So she writes all that up.
She takes the video. And she also had told her friends.
Uh-oh. Uh-oh. If I were to kill someone, like, I'd make sure that I put their body in a place where no one would find it, like a mine.
Oh, God. Yeah. And oddly enough, a search of the family's computer showed that Josh had looked up mines in nearby places.
Like Nevada, Simpson Springs, etc. Very casual.
Totally. So I'm going to back up a little bit.
I'm going to talk about Steve and Josh and the siblings.
Okay. So, clearly, like I said, Josh's dad was fucked up, clearly.
Creep of the highest order. Creep of the highest order.
Josh's older sister Jen recalls horrible things from childhood.
I'm not shocked. No. She and all of her siblings, there's five of them, wet the bed.
And he would make them take ice baths to like shock it out of their system.
Oh my God. God, that horrifies me. Yeah.
He also had a very, very serious porn addiction.
And it is speculated that he showed the boys porn at that age.
And there's three boys and two girls. he also apparently was like really shitty to josh in particular to the point where josh like almost committed suicide like attempted suicide when he was younger i think He was like... I'm not sure exactly how old he was.
And... What a fucking dick. And it's so weird because then later in life they're so close.
Yeah, I was just going to say. It's like.
The emotional abuse, I mean physical abuse perhaps, that Steve committed on these kids is so messed up.
That's some soul murder shit. Oh, he soul murdered them because Josh didn't have a soul, clearly.
Oh, that's so awful. The wetting the bed thing, like really.
An ice bath to shock it out of them. Well, just to punish your child at all.
For wetting the bed, it's like, oh, my God.
It's literally referred to as an accident.
I would never, ever, ever punish my kids for that.
That's awful. And Jen remembers. So Jen is like the oldest sister.
She remembers going on a business trip with her dad.
And they were staying at like a hotel and she was like they were in separate buds, but he was literally like watching an X rated channel like while she was like right there.
Oh my god. Like, this guy is fucked up. This guy's a fucking creep.
He also mentioned... either to his wife or like in his diary but somehow his wife figured it out that he was interested in polygamy and wanted to add another woman into their marriage Had a sister wife.
And the wife was like, no, I'm not into that.
But he must have been, like, cheating on her or something because he gave her a venereal disease.
Oh. While they were married. What the fuck?
Yeah. So messed up. They didn't get divorced until Josh was like 16, though.
Holy shit. I don't know what these kids' childhoods were like, but if this guy was this messed up and treating their mom this horribly, and they didn't get divorced until they're... second oldest kid was 16.
Like, these kids must have seen some fucking shit.
Oh my god. It was so awful. Why do you do these things to your children?
I don't understand this. And that's the thing.
So easy to not do those things to your children.
So, like I said, Josh had four siblings.
First, Jen, she's the oldest. She's like the she's kind of like the the voice of reason out of all these kids, if that makes sense.
Then Josh. Then John, who was mentally ill.
He was bipolar and had schizophrenia. And then...
Michael was next. He was the younger brother.
And then Alina. Okay. So Jen says while they were growing up, Steve would often put the boys against the girls.
And honestly, the entire family dynamic was just very like strange and like. like very like sexual, like undertones, like eek.
It was a very, very dark family scene. Yeah.
And I feel like it's time for a palate cleanser.
Let's reintroduce them. Yeah, let's reintroduce the palate cleansers with...
A pretty big one. Some big fucking news, everybody.
So we mentioned earlier that we have, I say we.
We mentioned earlier that we have big news.
We have big news. So this is Alina, by the way.
Yeah, this is not Ash. Guess what, guys?
What? There's a new little weirdo joining the crew.
John and I are having another baby. And y'all she's not like three months pregnant.
She's like pregnant as fuck. No I'm like super pregnant.
What are you eight months now? I'm literally. like eight and a half months pregnant.
She pulled a Kylie Jenner on your asses and didn't tell anybody about it.
I thought she was never going to tell you guys until she had the baby.
Yeah, I think that John was hoping that I would just let it go until we actually had the baby.
But I got too excited and I couldn't let it.
I couldn't hold it in any longer. So now you know.
So now you know. So yay. I've been pregnant for like eight and a half months.
Casual. So any of our little mishaps and sicknesses, probably due to me being pregnant.
Also the reason she has this vocal fry. Yeah.
It sounds like Lindsay Lohan. That's what we were talking about in the beginning of the episode.
Because I don't know if you guys know this, but pregnancy can cause your vocal cords to swell in the third trimester.
Yeah. And that's what's happening. Yay.
Pregnancy. So speaking of pregnancy. and thus trying to get healthier.
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Do it. It's fun. It's personalized. It says your fucking name on the packets, guys.
It's fucking great. Now we have to bring you back down from that fun personalized vitamin pack to some dark, scary shit.
Sorry about it. So Josh and Michael were like very close.
So that's like his youngest brother. Okay.
And the police learn this. So they start looking more into their relationship.
The lead investigator on the case starts looking through Michael's emails and finds this email to Apollo Mapping in Boulder, Colorado. asking for a super high resolution photo of a wrecking yard in Oregon.
Huh. Did I say that right this time? Oregon, you did.
I did. You said it right. So this is interesting to note because the day after Susan disappeared...
Michael and Alina went out to Utah to be close to Josh and the kids, and they stayed for about two weeks.
Then when they were driving home, they broke down.
And instead of fixing the car, Michael had it taken to this salvage lot in Oregon because he knew it would be destroyed instead of repaired.
That's shady. Why did you want to spend way more money getting your car destroyed than just spend like way less to just repair it?
Yeah, that's strange. And you're going to send it all the way there when you could just like go to a mechanic close to here.
No, it doesn't make any sense. No, not at all.
So the investigators find out about this and they send canines out who were trained to sniff out human decomposition.
Cadaver dogs. Yes. they immediately go to Michael's trunk indicating that there had been a dead human in the trunk at one point in time.
Oh no. which led police to believe that Michael may have been involved in like relocating Susan's body for Josh.
So they send the vehicle in for forensic testing and it comes back insufficient and there's not enough evidence to make an arrest.
It's just like dead end after dead end. They know that somehow this family offed Susan and is like getting away with it.
And is doing it together. And it's the scariest thing.
This is like a Texas Chainsaw Massacre family.
Oh, it is. This is some dark shit. It's just like dead end after dead end, like I said.
But Josh's sister, Jen, is fully convinced that her father and brothers are hiding some shit.
Oh, she knows. She's like, my family is involved in Susan's disappearance and I will fucking prove it.
Oh, my God. I can't imagine being in her position.
So she goes to the police and is like, put a wire on me.
I'll show up at my dad's house. Boss bitch.
Boss bitch moves. That's so hard. I was like freaking out for this girl.
I was like, girl, get it. She's like, put a wire on me.
I will go to my dad's house. I know that my brother is going to be having dinner there.
I'm gonna fucking infiltrate the situation.
I'm gonna crack this case wide open. I'm gonna shove him into a corner and I'm gonna make him fucking admit what he did.
Holy shit. So she goes through the entire dinner, is literally sitting there wiretapped throughout the entire dinner.
Oh my god, I'd be sweating. boys. And they play clips and she's talking like she's killing it.
Wow. Go Jen. So after dinner she kind of like like, moves Josh into a study room.
It's just the two of them. So... She like tensions are running super high and she doesn't want him to leave without saying anything.
And she's trying to like press him into it.
She's like, what happened to Susan? Like. if you admit it now maybe you won't get the death penalty like blah blah he's like i don't know what you're talking about like Blah, blah.
And at one point he's like, my lawyer told me not to comment on anything, so I'm not going to.
And it's like, yo, I'm your sister. Right.
Like I'm trying to have like a bonding talk with you.
Yeah. And Josh just leaves. Like he's like, you know what?
Fuck this. I'm out. And just takes the kids and leaves.
So then Steve gets wicked pissed off that she like accused her brother of this.
And he starts yelling. And then Alina says that Jen, or excuse me, that Susan is a lying bitch.
And then Jen eventually leaves. Holy shit.
And nothing comes from the wiretapping. So it's like this big, huge family blowout.
And it's like Jen against the world. Literally Jen against the world.
Wow. It's crazy. So after a little while of kind of like trying to dad and do his thing, Josh moves in with his dad and the two kids.
So at this point, they're all living in their fucking house, in Steve's creepy-ass dark dungeon house.
That sounds like fun. Yes, super fun. And their new plan of attack was to paint this picture of Susan as this promiscuous sexual being.
Oh, God. Alina says that she specifically felt like Susan fed into Steve's advances and flirted back.
Oh, yeah, it's totally her fault. Well, if you watch the videos... Now you're a creepy-ass dad.
Oh, my God. I was yelling at the TV. I was like, fuck you.
But if you watch the videos, like... And some of them she doesn't even know that he's filming her in.
Yeah, he's like voyeuring her. And it's, oh my god, it's just going to become very evident to you who the real monster is.
If you see these videos. So they're on this whole tirade of making Susan look like a piece of shit. and Josh and Steve have Susan's diaries from when she was a teenager.
And they're saying like they might piece together like her disappearance like she says like some crazy shit in here like God and they're making it seem like that.
And they also said at one point Steve made this whole theory up that Susan was having an affair with this like journalist that went missing at the same time that she did. oh so they're really trying but they weren't at all linked at all like in any way shape or form so they literally He was just like, yeah, maybe she ran off with that guy.
And then the world was like, no, that's not what happened.
But they told police that they're going to hand these journals over and it's going to piece everything together and clear their names.
Yeah, because I know my high school journals would totally... piece together my future disappearance absolutely they have everything to do with my current life today at lunch we had coleslaw yeah if you looked at my high school journals you'd be like whoa I was also an angsty little bitch.
As was I. Like, ridiculous. But then they retract that and they're like, no, we're not handing those over.
Like, those are our property. Yeah. So the police are like, what are you?
And the police don't have enough evidence to get a search warrant because they can't prove that the diaries are in the house.
So the police come up with this like crazy like campaign thing.
And it's in August 2011. They come up with this idea to do a honking wave. to bait Steve and or Josh because they do it near the house and they know that they're gonna drive by.
And they have been talking to the media like crazy.
So they know if they see like camera crews and like...
Susan's family because Susan's dad was there that it's gonna cause like this scene and they're gonna say something incriminating Oh, okay.
Which is exactly what happens. Oh, shocked.
So it's like big groups of people and they're holding pictures of Susan and it's just like it says like remember me at the top and it's like for any information you've seen them yeah So sure enough, Steve and Josh drive by and Steve gets out of the car and he's being like a dick to Susan's dad and like. they're going back and forth at each other and he's like he start he brings up the diaries And he's like, those are my son's property.
Like, yeah, we have them. And like, they're going to piece together everything.
But blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So he literally inserts his foot into his mouth.
So they're just dumbasses. Because then the police get the search warrant and they go to search the house.
They find the diaries. And they're like, yoink.
And they find some other disturbing... Crazy shit.
Oh no. So this is where, this is when they find all those videos that I've been referencing this whole time.
Like cases on cases on cases of fucking cassettes or like whatever the fuck you put videos on.
Oh, that's so dark. That's so dark. Oh, you think that's dark?
They also find... cotton swabs in plastic bags labeled susan and it was like cotton swabs where she had like taken off her nail polish The fuck?
They also find underwear in bags, feminine hygiene products in bags... toenail clippings and hair all in bags labeled Susan and they all have like different dates on them I have left the atmosphere.
And there's pictures. I am beyond. There's pictures.
I'm beyond. That is nightmare. Nightmare, nightmare, nightmare.
Like straight up nightmare. Like if you wrote that in a horror movie, people would be like, come on.
I've never even heard that in a horror movie because it's so dark.
That's what I mean. If you wrote a horror movie with this shit, people would be like...
I mean, come on, you're creating this really weird fantasy character, and this is a real person.
Exactly. Oh, my God. and hygiene products?
Like, dude. Like, you needed those, bro?
Like, shit. That's gross. And toenails.
And toenails? Like, what the fuck were you doing with her toenails?
Some weird... Damn. I don't know. I don't want to know what you needed with them, Steve.
I don't love it. In fact, I hate it. They also find over five... thousand photos of Susan.
And like in some of the photos, he like morphed himself and like photoshopped himself into the photo.
This is like single white female shit, but like on steroids.
This is so beyond. It is the most fucked up thing ever.
But they also find other videos of different women, like women in short skirts, women changing in bathrooms. teenage girls changing in bathrooms oh so this guy's a literal monster yeah so Steve gets arrested as fuck.
He gets arrested as fuck. Like arrested as fuck on the spot.
Good. The children immediately are taken into protective custody.
Thank you. Yeah. I've been waiting for those words to come out of your mouth.
It's like, when was that going to happen?
This whole time I'm like, God, those poor boys.
And the investigators that were there that day said that Josh didn't even hug them goodbye.
Like he was just like, oh, shit. What? This dude is weird.
So Susan's parents get granted temporary custody, but then Josh was given the chance to regain custody.
No. If he proved to a court-ordered psychologist that he could raise the children in a healthy household.
No. Which he clearly fucking hadn't been for all these years. i can answer it for him he can't and at this point the kids are um i think they're like five and seven at this point um so they've already gone through some shit yeah I mean, number one, your mother being missing, but number two... Your mom's been missing for years at this point.
You're being raised by that guy. By those dudes.
And that family. And... First of all, Susan's parents said that when they got the kids back, or like when they were granted custody of them, that they were out of control and they were like very violent towards each other.
It just it was very evident that like no one was parenting.
Yeah. Like they weren't they were just running values or lessons.
And also the kids were there's I don't know if this happened like after.
The kids got taken away, but they show this clip in the documentary I watched where one of the boys is talking to a psychologist. or a psychiatrist and he said they're like what do you know about mommy like just saying like do you like just like bringing up the mom And he's like, oh, mommy's missing, but we're not allowed to talk about that or camping.
I have a lot of secrets. I just got full bone chills.
Yeah. That just ruined me. He said we're not allowed to talk about that.
Oh my God. And at one point, I'm literally getting chills just like thinking about this.
To ruin a sweet little baby like that. Yeah.
One of the kids at one point draws a picture of all of them in the van.
And it's like, Daddy's driving. That's Charlie.
That's Brayden. And then he points to the trunk and goes, and that's mommy in the trunk.
Nope. Nope. Nope. So. I want to leave. Yeah, I have goosebumps right now.
I want to go somewhere else. I want to be anywhere else.
I want some ice cream. I just want, I can't.
I love that I'm destroying you. You're destroying me right now.
I hate that it's with this case because I'm just, destroying myself but typically it's me getting destroyed yeah so you're welcome i just can't imagine what like How do you just like destroy a sweet little baby and put all that like weight on them?
How do you do that to your kids? How do you kill your fucking wife?
Like, there's just so many things in life.
There's a lot of layers to this that I cannot understand.
I just think of these poor little brains having to like just stifle all of this and like, oh, God.
And the fact that he was like, we're not allowed to talk about that.
Like, I have to keep a lot of secrets. Yeah, like, this is... to keep it it is a clip like it is it's he said it it's not just like a quote like a like a an article quote like it's a video like I said Josh has to prove that he's like capable of being what he hasn't been forever Oh, good dad.
But while this custody battle is happening, the police search Josh's hard drive.
And find it's not actually child pornography.
It's like simulated child pornography. child pornography it's like i don't know if it how to say it if it's like animated but it's like drawings but it's like supposed to be But it's, yeah.
Oh my God. But they can't arrest him for it because it's not technically.
It's not actual like children. Right. Exactly.
Oh my God. God. But he is ordered to take a psychosexual evaluation, which includes a polygraph test where they can ask anything they want.
And it's like you should never, I don't, if you're drawing those pictures or you're using those images in some way, it's like you should never have children again.
Right. So, he's supposed to take this test, but in the meantime, he is granted supervised visitations with the kids.
What the fuck? It's just the way the fucking system works.
Such bullshit. So they're supposed to take place at a government-funded facility.
But that and that's where they started. But then because of the notoriety of the case, other parents were like, yeah, it's a media frenzy and I just want to see my kid.
Yeah. So he was able to have them at his house.
That sounds safe. Yeah, totally. And they were still supervised.
But still. So... somehow josh got away with this i don't know how this even happened like this is like a crack in the system So Susan's parents were really nervous that something was going to happen.
And unfortunately, they were right. February 5th, 2012 was Super Bowl Sunday.
That morning, Josh was having a visit with the kids.
A social worker picked them up, Charlie and Braden, at Susan's parents' home and brought them to Josh's home that he was renting just down the street from where he used to live with Steve.
When she gets to the home, Josh lets the kids in but, like, slams the door in her face.
Like, looks her in the eye and slams the door in her face.
Won't let her in. I have a sick feeling in my stomach right now.
It makes me want to cry a little bit. I haven't had to say it out loud yet, but I've heard it.
When he slams the door, she gets a whiff of gasoline in her face.
Oh, God. So she immediately calls the police.
This guy... Is an idiot. Like, the way that he handled this call, I don't know if he got fired or what happened, but he should have.
But is it awful? It's horrific. So she calls and the dispatcher basically says he doesn't see it as a life-threatening situation and says she doesn't know the exact address of where she is.
It's like 2012 at this point, so I don't understand why they couldn't locate her through GPS.
I was just going to say, yeah. And he's like, well, I don't know where you are.
Like, I'm trying to figure out where you are.
And then she says she can hear the kids crying.
She smells gasoline and she's in fear for their lives.
Like this is a life threatening situation.
How is this not a Oh my god, I'm so angry right now.
And then all of a sudden, the house fucking explodes into a burst of flames.
Oh my god. Josh had not only doused the house himself, the area the boys were in with gasoline, but But also the autopsy later showed that the boys had been assaulted with an axe or a pick or like a hatchet.
And they had blows to their heads. But that's not how they died.
They died because of smoke inhalation. Oh.
So he attacked his kids with a hatchet. and then lit the house on fire i am having such a moment right now yeah i haven't had to say that out loud and like saying it out loud was horrible Oh.
And this is really gonna fuck you up even more.
Oh, gosh. The boys were found lying on the floor holding hands.
Oh. I know. Oh, my God. My heart feels like it's going to fall out of my butt.
And before this happened, Josh said goodbye to it, called and left this voicemail with a bunch of people and was like, I'm saying goodbye like this has all been too much like blah blah so like goodbye But he didn't say that he was going to take the kids with him.
Oh, my God. Like, dude, why couldn't you have just killed yourself?
That's the thing. It's like, dude. Because his whole thing was like, I can't live without my boys.
Like, I can't live without those children.
And it's like, okay cool then kill yourself they don't have to die die because no one wants you so much why did you attack them with a fucking hatchet their last moments I mean, that's... The darkest shit.
That's beyond. The darkest shit. That really is beyond.
So a month after that, Steve pled not guilty to 14 counts of voyeurism and one count of child pornography.
The judge wouldn't... He's so fucking gross, dude.
The judge wouldn't let any videos of Susan count as evidence against Steve. because she wasn't there to say that she hadn't consented to being on these videos.
And the defense said... anyone could have taken those videos like it wasn't it didn't necessarily have to be steve because you in some of them you can't see his face Sometimes the justice system man is... It's so fucked up.
This case is a very clear... show of how the justice system fails a lot of people there's a lot of lapses here The defense also even pointed the finger at Josh's mentally ill brother, who I mentioned before, John, but he had been kicked out at the time.
Like by Steve himself. Like he didn't live in the house at the time that these videos were taken.
And it's like you're just trying to find an easy target.
Right. Every single time that a question was asked about Susan, Steve pled the fifth.
Every single time. Because he's a fucking lying piece of shit.
So he was sentenced to 10 years in prison.
A year after that trial, Michael, Josh's brother, who I mentioned earlier with the car.
Yeah. committed suicide. This is not shocking.
And then... Because I think they all have one big thing weighing on their conscience.
One big fucking secret. And then in July of 2017, Steve Powell was released from prison to like a halfway house. and he had a heart attack and died before detectives could ask him for any more information.
So they literally all took this to the grave.
Yeah, they wanted to get to Steve. Like, they heard that he had a heart attack and they wanted to get to him and be like...
Okay, like deathbed confession. What up?
You're on your deathbed, monster. Before they got there, he fucking died.
That fucking asshole. Yeah. And in journals of Steve's, they later found... that he wrote on the day after she disappeared.
So it was like the 7th of December that the family was reported missing.
On December 8th, Steve wrote in his journal, quote, I think he probably went to some former industrial land just west of West Valley City and cremated her.
Josh's life with Susan was utterly miserable.
Evidently, this tragedy is my answer for why Josh hung on.
He wanted to do it his way and avoid a messy, costly divorce.
Yeah, you don't want to deal with a divorce.
So maybe... This was obviously much easier.
Like, obviously. And much cleaner. It was so much better.
Wow. So that is the story of the disappearance. of Susan Powell and she's never been found.
Wow. And they went through like the... Because they found all those searches on his computer for like mines and shit.
Yeah. They searched mines. They searched like places everywhere.
Like nothing has ever been found. And all those fuckers just up and died.
The only people that are left are... John, who I don't think was involved.
Alina, who fucking sucks. Who I bet Alina knows.
I don't even know if she knows. I think Alina is in denial because she's like, this whole thing has made my family look like monsters.
And it's like, Your family is monsters.
For the most part, you are. And Jen. and jenna's left and she's the only one who's like and she is like so sad like she's just in the can you imagine every interview she's like the saddest Oh, my God.
And it drives her crazy that she wasn't able to get the confession out of him when she was wired.
Oh, that probably weighs on her. And she said it weighs on her every single day.
Because it's like she was this badass who went in there.
That would have been the most terrifying situation.
I can't even imagine. Wearing a wire in any situation.
I know. Not that I've worn a wire. I'm just saying I imagine it's very scary.
And she said she was like, those boys were supposed to be full of like ambition and hopes and dreams.
They got robbed of it. In the most horrific way.
Gruesome. And the fucking 911 operator that answered the phone.
I don't know where he is, but I hope he stubs his toe every day, multiple times a day.
Yeah, seriously. He, like, it is so... I can't even listen to the 911 call again because I've listened to it like a few times and it is...
I'm like, you are not, like, who trained you?
Yeah, like, this is very clear. Like, who are you to determine whether it's a life and death situation?
Right. You're 911. You just come. You just dispatch.
And when they get there, they determine it.
And I hate to say this, but I just feel like If a different person had answered, it potentially could have saved their lives because it took almost 20 minutes from the time that she made the call until first responders got there.
20 fucking minutes fuck yeah And just like that whole thing where like the door slams and she got a whiff of gas.
It's the most haunting thing. I've ever heard in my life.
You just said it and I got chills even though I know it fucking happened.
And that she was saying she could hear them crying.
She could hear them crying. That ruins me.
And he looked her like in the eyes and slammed the door in her face like that is what nightmares are made of yeah that took a part of me and just threw it away yeah Never to be seen again.
I didn't finish researching this case until 345 and then I stayed up until like 430 because I couldn't fall asleep.
Did you have like the worst fucking dreams?
No, I think I just passed out because I was so dead.
I watched The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills after I watched it.
Yeah, we're going to have to watch like something very brainless.
Oh, we're about to watch Queer Eye. Because, ooh.
Jonathan, Vanessa, I need you. I need Queer Eye right now.
Queer Eye. Queer Eye will fix this. It will.
Guys, if you want to calm your brains down a little bit, you could go over to our Instagram, check out our feed, and follow us at Morbid Podcast.
You could follow us on Twitter. Amorbid Podcast.
Send us an email. Morbidpodcast.gmail.com You could donate to the Patreon if you're feeling so inclined.
Patreon.com slash Morbid Podcast. Check out the website that Elena designed.
Morbidpodcast.com. We hope you keep listening.
And we hope you keep it weird. And I'm not doing one for this case.
No. Sorry. Yeah, no, not at all. So weird that you head over to careof.com.
Yeah. And buy some fucking gnarly vitamins.
Get weird with health. Be healthy. Do it.
Thank you. If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.
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The town of Agde in France is famous for sun, sand, sea and sex.
But lately, life on the coast has taken a strange turn.
The town's mayor, a respected pillar of the community, has been arrested for corruption.
His wife claims he's been bewitched by a beautiful clairvoyant.
Then there's the mysterious phone calls that local people have been getting.
I am the Archangel Michael. The whole town has been thrown into chaos.
As the mayor is unable to carry out his duties, I would like to address you all.
Legal proceedings have been initiated. Join me, Anna Richardson, and journalist Leo Schick for The Mystic and the Mayor as we investigate a story of power, corruption, and magic.
Binge all episodes of The Mystic and the Mare exclusively and ad-free right now on Wondery+.
Start your free trial in Apple Podcasts, Spotify or the Wondery app.
