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Hey, weirdos. I'm Elena. I'm not Ash. And this is Morbid.
I'm Ash. I just wanted to spice it up a little this time by saying I wasn't who I am.
I liked at the end when you were like, no i'm not yeah just so you know in case you didn't recognize skirt everybody for a second there Yes.
This is really exciting because it's going to be an Ash episode.
I'm kind of nervous. Ash is taking the reins.
She's taking the bull by the horn. She's taking the hippie by the LSD.
Oh, that sounds like me. That sounds a lot more like me.
She's taking over. Yeah. Because this is her fave.
My fave. Lil' Charlie. Charlie Manson. Lil' Charlie.
Charles. But before we get to Charlie Manson... Let's just, like, chitter-chatter a bit.
Let's chat. Let's have banter for a second.
Let's just banter it up. Your husband has a jungle disease.
Let's just pop right in with that. Sarah's husband's rather ill.
So, interestingly enough, we're recording a little late in the week.
This week. It's Friday. Because we normally... We try to bust one out a little earlier, but...
This week has been a little weird because as Jess stated, my husband has a crazy jungle virus.
That we may have contracted via mosquito while on a cruise.
Woof. So it's been a week. But the good news is he's feeling better today.
So I think he's on the mend. Well, that's good.
But it's not fun watching you. No. Yeah.
Yeah. That's funny. That's upsetting. That's... I don't... I don't know.
I tried to come up with a witty response and then I was like...
Like, you know what? You just, you're funny by yourself.
You're funny. I'll leave. Yeah, you can just leave.
I'll take care of this. Yeah, whatever. No, you can't leave.
I don't know enough about Charlie Manson's I know a little, but... I'm scared.
This is your boy. You got this. This my man's, though.
This your man's. This your man's. um yeah so like nothing really that interesting happened to me this week so maybe we should just get right into it yeah I was gonna talk about the traffic I sat in for like because people were running but it's just gonna make me mad all over again fuck activities fuck exercise There you go.
That's all I have to say. That's our official stance on exercise.
I hope Michelle Obama's not listening. I know, because girl, I love you.
Yeah. But she's going to be like, those morbid girls are morbidly obese.
Maybe they should run. Maybe they should run.
No. No. No, unless a murderer is chasing me.
Am I going to run? Full circle. There you go.
All right. Okay. Let's jump into Charlie.
All right. So without further ado, Charles Manson and the Manson family murders.
Woo! So, Charlie Manson was born in Cincinnati, Ohio on November 12th in the year of 1934.
Which sounds so old. long yeah when i was like doing everything i was like whoa 1934 and he just died like last year yeah last year yeah So, spoiler alert.
Spoiler alert, Charlie died. Charlie died.
And everyone was, like, so happy and, like, I was, like, a little bit, like, sad because I wanted to, like.
I don't know. Do you want to write it? I wanted to marry... No, I'm just kidding.
You wanted to be one of those girls named, like, Moonbeam that goes to try to marry him when he's 84?
Yes, except... As Charlie got older, he just like wore his insides on his outsides.
And I was like, yo boy. He did. He was a lot.
Because I'm not going to lie to you, Charlie was handsome back in the day.
He could have fucking opened the school bus door and I would have hopped right the fuck on with my flower crown.
Okay. couple of his mug shots i was like hey boy okay yeah okay charlie okay okay Like, that's how I feel.
Like, he's no Ted. All right. Well, the Ted episode is over.
But we're going to move on. But I agree with you.
He was... Yeah, he was cute. Yeah, it was only when he started, like, wearing his crazy... And, like, carving bad sides into his fucking forehead.
Yeah, no good. All right, let's get there.
We'll get there. So he was born to his, well, that doesn't make sense.
I don't know why. He was born to his mother.
He was born to his mother. That's crazy.
He was born from his mama. I think that's what set him on that path.
He was born and his mom was Kathleen Maddox, who was 16 at the time and was making her living as a sex worker.
Which, you know. Yeah, you know, you just got to do what you got to do, girl.
It is reported that she was not really fit for motherhood, which.
Yeah. Most 16-year-olds are. No, definitely not.
But that can be supported by the fact that she once tried to sell and successfully, actually. actually sold Charlie for a pitcher of beer.
Oh my God. That story. I'm just going to go ahead and say it.
I didn't have like the best mom, but she never tried to sell me for a pitcher of beer to my knowledge.
No, and you know what? I can back that up.
You can back that up. You have never been bartered for a pitcher of beer.
And apparently his uncle... Had to go and find him later.
She actually gave him away for Oh, yeah.
She was just chilling with her beer. She legit... She made the transaction.
Yeah. Then they just... canceled it you know what though i wonder if that waitress like had tea or like the person who like got him in return if she was like a normal person was like maybe i should take him as payment that's what i'm thinking because i can give him a better life yeah and honestly maybe he would have been better like think about that for one second yeah how different the world would be If that waitress raised Charlie as her own.
Because, I mean, a lot of it seems like it can be attributed to his... crazy ass childhood yeah so basically he did not have the most stable childhood um he didn't have lightly great role models to look up to.
No, definitely not. His mom and his uncle were like stealing cars and robbing like stores left and right.
Like... In and out of jail. Yeah. And he was along for the ride the whole time.
Oh, yeah. He was with them. And so he started stealing, too.
I mean, that's what he was basically raised to do.
Well, and apparently his uncle was, like, sadistic, too.
Well, so he was, when his mom was in jail at one point, he was sent to live with his super fucking religious aunt.
Mm-hmm. Which there's nothing wrong with that.
He was only like five or six. Yeah, he was six.
And... I don't know if this is truce and I wasn't going to say it, but now I'm just like, whatever.
I read something too, so I wonder if this is the same thing.
All right, well, let's find out that on the first day of school.
Yes, this is what I read. It is true. Okay, do you think this, is this true?
Yeah, it is. Because I read it on like a weird site.
His uncle was a piece of shit. So his uncle dressed him up like a girl.
Because he was like a sensitive kid. Right.
And he cried a lot. And he said if you want to act like a crybaby, I'm going to dress you up like a little girl.
Which is so... Fucked up. That hurts my heart.
Yeah, and I don't know if he, like, sent him to school.
I think he did. He did, yeah. It was the first day of kindergarten.
Yeah, like, a little... And also, can you imagine being the fucking teacher and you're like, wait, especially in like 1930, whenever.
Exactly. And it's not like this kid is like this. what i wanted to wear it's like you know my uncle forced me to wear this yeah like that's awful like gross So eventually his mom gets out of jail and he's excited and she just never really paid too much attention to him.
Like she didn't, she wasn't super maternal. no and she sent him to a reform school um at one point his name was no name by the way What?
Okay, I didn't know that. He was still one years old and he, I just had to throw this in because it's so bizarre.
Yeah, I did not know that. I did. This was like a random little tidbit that she did his sister.
His mom did start like dating a man. Yeah.
Named William Manson, which is where he got his last name.
And he was super, he was way older than her and they lived together at one point.
He was one year old. And his name was No Name Manson.
So she didn't name him Charlie when he was first born?
He was literally No Name for like a year.
I had no idea about that. Yeah, isn't that bananas?
So, actually, Kaylin Lowry from Teen Mom didn't name her kid for, like, a wicked long time, too.
And I was like, is that legal? You can, I mean, I'm pretty sure, I could be wrong, and I'm sure people will yell at me if I am.
I feel like they don't let you leave the hospital. i thought you couldn't anymore if you don't i don't know because i remember like and imagine if like kayla and lowry from teen mom started angry tweeting us or something i hope she does because why aren't you naming your child like sorry i'm pretty sure she was out of the hospital and they hadn't named him like they didn't give him i don't understand that But anyways, this is not a podcast about Teen Mom 2.
Come at me, because I don't understand that.
No. I didn't know that. I didn't find that anywhere.
Yeah, he was no name. So that'll fuck you up.
So that'll fuck you up, yeah. The town of Agde in France is famous for sun, sand, sea and sex.
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So, yeah, he was no name, and then he was Charlie, and then he was stealing, and then his mom went to jail, and then he got dressed like a girl, and it was just, like, really sad.
Yeah. Um, so he gets sent to reform school and he's basically in and out of reform schools for like all of his adolescence.
Yeah. He did two stints in prison for driving stolen cars across state lines.
Yep. Which is a felony. Yeah. So they were, like, pretty long steps.
It's because you, yeah, it's because once you cross the state lines, it becomes a whole different ballgame.
A way bigger crime, yeah. Yeah. That's basically what he was in and out of jail for.
That's apparently when he got sent to the reform schools, It was because his mom, when he was 12 years old, she literally went to a judge and was like, Yeah, I don't want to take care of him anymore.
Yeah, no, she literally, like, she didn't want him.
She decided not to take care of him anymore, and that's why they sent him there.
And then he escaped the first one. And ran back to her.
And she rejected him again. And sent him back to the school. like do you know how much that that probably sent i mean that did it a massive oh and he And also, like, I'm, like, not saying, like, oh, he claimed, like, I totally believe it, that they, like, abused the shit out of him in the reform school.
Oh, no, those schools are known for it. he said that every other prison he went to was paradise compared to that To the schools, yeah.
He said literally he would do any other school.
Like, because they literally... Like, those prison guards... They were like... raped kids yeah they would turn their backs while other kids raped kids like they it's fucking hell So not only did he go to reform schools and get rejected by his mother multiple times, but he was also being... violently abused in any way you can imagine in these schools.
So it's like, this dude is learning violence and rejection and abandonment.
Well, and it's just like, Like, nature versus nurture.
Oh, my God. Like, perfect example. Oh, yeah.
Like, what would have happened if he was born into an actual... Or given to that damn waitress.
Or given to... Where is that waitress? Man, I would love to know what life would be like.
Dude, for real. If I ever got like a back to the future moment, I would be like... would be it i want to know i'm going to that bar because i'm gonna find kathleen maddox maybe he would be like brilliant or something maybe a brilliant musician he okay we'll get there he probably would have been yeah or something he'd be like a fucking like tom petty yeah Actually, I feel like I can't compare Charlie and Tom Putty.
I'm sorry, Mr. Putty. And then I was like, no.
He could have been like a beach boy. Maybe he would have been the fourth one.
Are there three? No, I think there's four.
Maybe even in the fifth one. There might be five.
Maybe there's 12. I don't really know. He'll be the beach boy that's off to the left.
He'll be the other beach boy. Um... So yeah, so by the time that he was 32, he had spent over half of his life in prison.
Damn. So... That blows my mind. Like, what is half of 32?
16. 16. Sure. I don't know. Yeah, it is.
Math. So, over 16 years in prison, and you're 32.
That's... bananas like what yeah and when he was released from prison for the second time In 1967, he asked to stay in jail.
Oh, yeah. And there was a point during reform school where there was a little glimmer of... his violent tendencies where he they did catch him raping another boy with a razor to his throat So that was, and although like I've heard interviews with him where he says, and I've read things too about like other, these kind of schools.
Yeah. That like. I think that shit goes on.
They just tend to start having sex with each other because they're all 16.
Well, I mean, you're fucking locked up. and your hormones are raging yeah at this at the point in your life where that you're really that's the one thing you're thinking about so it ends up happening which whatever that's a whole different it's a whole different trail to go down But, so that's a thing, but this is not an instance of that, like, consensual in any way.
This is him holding a razor to his throat, so it's like...
It's a little glimmer of like, oh, that's fucked up.
You know, like that's not OK. But I wonder if like that had happened to him.
And so in his mind. Oh, and I'm sure. I'm sure it happened to him, yeah.
Like, I'm sure. I'm sure he wasn't just like, okay.
So I think he was just being, this is what he knew.
Right. Like, this is how he was raised. You want to have sex with someone, you hold a razor to their throat.
Like that is really fucked up. At least in that situation.
Because later he didn't seem to be that forceful with sex.
Like, he didn't seem like he was violently raping people.
No. Which we'll get to, obviously. Right.
It's a very weird... He had, like... He has a very interesting psychology.
He had weird, like... sexual like things yeah he was very like psychedelic about it yeah he was like everyone have sex i'm a god you're a god we're all gods yeah Honestly, if he didn't kill people, his idealistic things would have been like,
He would have just been like... He would have just been a fucking hippie.
He would have been a silly hippie. Like, remember the hippies that, like, he probably would have been at the party, like, around the street that they had. have every year he would we have okay tell just do tell real quick time We have.
Had. Had. I know. I'm still not accepting it, but it's true because the TP is gone now, so I have to accept it.
Do you think that they took it with them?
I'm sure they did. Like, is it affordable?
I bet they did. Okay. Because they just lived that life.
Let's tell our listeners what the fuck we're talking about.
Around the corner from us, when we moved into this house, we were walking our dog one night, and we passed by this house with peace sign, like...
Wind chimes. Wind chimes and, like, mirrors and, like, all this art hanging everywhere in this backyard.
And a fucking... And in the center. Like, this big... giant teepee and i mean huge like the side as tall as tall as the tree yeah then I see the people and it's a man and two women which live your life And no, when I was a waitress, I used to wait on them because when I saw them, I was like, wait a second.
Yeah, you're like, wait. And they were wearing tie-dye shirts with peace signs on them.
And their hair was long. They had the long beard and they all had the long hair.
They're really nice people. They all were like, hey, man, when I walked by and I was like, this is...
Amazing. And then we figured out because we moved into our house in October.
As soon as summer came. I just yawned. Not at you.
No, it wasn't summer. It's in the fall. No, it's the beginning of fall.
Yeah, it's like September, October. Because I love them even more because I was like, yeah, fall.
Yeah. celebrate fall because we were going to haunted house yes coming back to me now oh my god guys yeah remember I feel like this year when we go to haunted houses, we're going to have to do podcasts about our haunted house adventures.
I just. Yes, yes, yes, yes. But it won't be the same because we won't have the hippie party to start us off for the fall.
That's true. But we're going to share our haunted house adventures with you.
But yeah, I digress. Sorry. So... Let's go to one every weekend, though.
We're definitely going to. Because this year, now we'll have to.
Because we have an obligation. We'll be held accountable.
Exactly. But they have this massive party in the beginning of fall. where they have a live band.
They have hundreds of people at their house.
It is literally Woodstock reincarnated. It is wonderful. it's like all because like it's not an annoying party that you're like no i would wish you guys would chill It's, like... It's so chill.
Awesome music. Like, live band. Everyone's just singing and dancing.
And it's just, like... Everyone's hanging out and every... For like two years, we were like, we need to get... We need to become friends with them and go to this party.
And then this year... Is the first year we're not going to have them because they just moved and I am devastated.
Where do you think they moved to? Like Colorado or some shit.
I don't know. But whoever they move near.
Man, I'm so lucky. So lucky. Because we would literally sit on our back porch and, like, listen to the music.
Live vicariously through their party. And we would look at all of our neighbors and everybody else was doing the same thing.
Everybody was sitting. Yeah. I just love that.
And I'm going to miss it so much. I know.
Honestly, let's... just do the party yeah let's just have a crazy hippie party let's build a fuck if anybody could build a teepee it's your ass You built like some weird box thing for your kids the other day.
I did. Those pictures were so cute. How cute was that?
Really cute. Yeah, I had a box from one of their toys, like a huge box, and I just strung some twinkle lights in it, and my kids... were obsessed with it for hours and now call it their house and are like they love it i didn't know they called it at their house and now I have this weird obsession with getting more cardboard and making them some elaborate crazy ass house making them a fucking mansion I'm gonna make them a crazy ass house out of cardboard cardboard I love it.
And a cat butt. And a cat butt. I'm going to make them a cat butt house.
But... Okay. We've gone to a really happy place.
Let's get back to this dark, dirty, hippie place.
Well, no, so... We're not at the dark place yet.
Yeah, we're not there. Well, okay, so when he was released from prison after spending over half of his life there, like... the amount of times he's been in and out, whatever, blah, blah, blah.
He apparently asked to stay in... Which is so sad.
Well, what he says is literally like my heart.
I read it and my heart ached. Because he's institutionalized at this point.
Literally, this is how he knows. He said, oh no, I can't go outside.
I know I won't be able to adjust to the world, not after I spent all my life locked up and my mind was free.
I'm content to stay here and take my walks around in the sunshine and play my guitar.
Aww. So no one would have fucking died.
No. Like, none of that crazy wild shit would have happened.
That's just sad. He would have walked around the fucking yard playing his guitar in the goddamn sunshine.
He just wanted to play music. music and just like have his routine and what's even sadder about that is before he had gone back in in 1955 he married the first woman he slept with.
I don't know her name. Did he have a kid with her?
But yeah, she got pregnant when he was 21.
And they, I think when he went into prison, he wanted to, he was gonna, he wanted to come out and like be straight and like get. yeah like be there for his kid right but his wife took his son and left him for a truck driver while he was in prison Whoa.
And that's why he was like, he said he was like, fuck that.
Like, he never spoke to them again. He never spoke to his son.
He never spoke to his wife or her. whatever but that's when why he was like well and she is coming out to nothing She sent him a divorce decree in person.
And just left him for a truck driver. I'm like, that's not cool, man.
Yeah, fuck that lady. Shit. Really? Like Charlie just had some really unfortunate shit happen to him.
He had a lot of bad lots in life. Unfortunately.
And it's, like, you can literally say, like, before he did anything crazy bad.
It's like, none of this... like of course like even him being a criminal at this point it's like but he was conditioned From birth to be a criminal.
It's like that's all he knew. So it's like you can't even really... He used to go with his mom and his uncle on like...
And at this point, he wasn't committing violent crimes.
No, he was just stealing random ass cars.
At this point, it's just like, he kind of is like a... like a sad case yeah like and just say i just want to play my guitar yeah he just wants to play music man Because I don't have my wife anymore.
My fucking kid is gone. Like, at this point, what is he, like, 21 at this point?
Right. Yeah. Well, and that's, like, rejection.
Like, your mom didn't want you. Yeah. Your wife didn't want you.
You can't be with your kid. Like, fuck. Like, that's awful.
That bums me out, man. So, it seems like it's gonna get better.
Yeah. Wait, actually though, in my notes, I was like...
After he asked to not be released, I go, however, Manson had served his sentence and it was time to go.
Dot, dot, dot. Unfortunate. Unfortunate.
He can't say hashtag unfortunate. I just wrote he could have been a contender.
Yeah, literally. And I think also during this whole thing, he this is when he got super into like studying philosophies. like islam psychology hypnotism and scientology which is a cult cult cult cult cult cult Which should tip you off on what he was going to be into.
He wrote down on some piece of paper when you had to write your religion before that was probably illegal.
Oh, yeah. He wrote down Scientology. And, like, when he died, he was, like, saying that he was loyal to Scientology.
That was, like, that came up a few... a few times in his life, like a connection to Scientology.
And also, if you've read that, there's a really good book called Manhunter.
And it's by John Douglas, who was in the behavioral science unit in the FBI.
And he... actually believes that literally everything that happened to Charlie Manson and everything that was done was just he just wanted to be a rock star.
Like that was, no, he literally just wanted to be a rock star.
He believes literally everything happened because his only goal was to become a rock Well, and I'm going to jump ahead of myself, but the reason why he even ended up at Sharon Tate's house was because he wasn't... who she was like she wasn't supposed to be involved in it at all somebody else was yeah which is crazy like totally get to that I know.
But that's... I want to fucking get to it.
I know. It's like you want to just like... But that is such a valid point because...
There's so many things I want to say, but I can't say it yet.
It all stems from this passion for music. like he was one of those dudes that you're just like okay I get it like you love music like please chill out but he really did listen to my music I gotta tell you about my music like brr yeah So it's like, oh, man.
So he served his time. He wasn't allowed to stay.
Oh, yeah. And can I cut in? Sorry. I did find this, and I actually checked this with last podcast on the left, which is an amazing podcast, and you should go listen to it.
So true. They're really amazing. and when he was released, his prison conduct sheet, which I think is just like... progress report when you leave said he has a pattern of criminal behavior and that dates to his teen years, and this pattern is one of instability, whether in a free society or structured institutional community.
Little can be expected in the way of a change in his attitude and behavior or mode of conduct.
So they were literally like, this kid has been institutionalized his entire life.
Literally forever. And they literally said, like, little can be expected. of, like, a change in how we view the world.
I mean... She just kept... Like, is there like a law against that or something?
I'm assuming it's like money and like resources.
Yeah, because it is taxpayer. And probably they were probably worried that at some point he would like sue them or something and be like, I didn't want to stay.
They made me stay past my thing. You know what I mean?
Right. But now that you say that, that guy is so right.
Like, I really truly feel like... If he had just become a rock star, like, none of this would have happened.
I know that's, like, a big, really bold statement to make, but it's true.
But it kind of makes sense. Especially because, like, he... the reason he was at that house yeah exactly he wasn't there but the reason they went there to begin with And that's, I mean, that's John Douglas.
He was, like, in the behavioral science unit at the FBI.
Like, it's not some schmo. It's not like he's just like, ah, thank you.
He knows what he's talking about, and it makes so much sense.
Yeah. Okay, so he gets released and he moves to San Francisco in the summer of love.
Francisco yeah um whenever I read San Francisco all I can think is wake up San Francisco because I watched far too much full house in my childhood i love it so much i just think is it the mamas and the papas That song that's like, with flowers in your hair.
Oh, yeah. I don't know who that is. It might be.
I hate that I'm singing into this microphone right now.
I'm going to listen back to this and I'm going to be like, girl.
You're going to be like, I can't sing. Oh, I want it.
I sang two to make you feel better. I'll let all my failures flow out freely.
Can I also just fucking say that why wasn't I alive during the Summer of Love?
Oh, let me be the first to say. I should have been.
That Ash... 100% I would have flourished in this decade like look at what I'm wearing right now oh my god I wish in fact I'm going to take a photo of Ash and post it on the things on the Instagram.
So you can see that she's one with this right now.
I legitimately look like a fucking hippie and I didn't plan it.
She's like a flower child dress. I did not plan it and the best part is she like even if we weren't doing this one this is what she would be wearing no I wore this dress to work today it says what she and i'm gonna also tell you it's really cute though thank you it's way too short and i had to wear like little shorts underneath it because i was like oh But it was like the cleanest thing that I had.
And I was just like, it's Friday. That's a fucking hippie statement.
That's such a dirty hippie thing. Fucking gross.
That's the cleanest thing I have, but it doesn't cover my butt.
Also, I really wish that I had time to do this because one of my coworkers had to do like dance hair.
Like there was like a prom or like semi-formal or something.
And we had a huge fucking thing of baby's breath.
And I had my hair like twisted in these little things.
Oh my God, if you had twisted baby's breath.
Well, I wanted to, but I didn't have time.
I was going to ask my friend and then I like was like, I got to get out of here.
You would have been hanging off of Charlie Manson's VW bus.
I'm going to let you know that I would have.
You would have joined the family. My feet would not have touched the floor.
You would have joined the family. I wouldn't have murdered anybody. no but you would have totally joined yeah i would have been like the the girl that gets away yeah you would have been one of the ones that's like i just like to live on the ranch yes let me live on the I would just like free love.
Actually, really fucked up things happened on the ranch.
Yeah, they did. I wasn't alive during the summer of love.
I'm good without the ranch. A lot of shit happened during the summer of quote-unquote love.
Love. Yeah. Love's a fucked up place. Okay, so he moves to San Francisco...
During the Summer of Love, and he begins dating 23-year-old Mary, I don't know if it's Brunner or Brunner.
I think it's Brunner. She has like 14 nicknames.
Brunner. You know her nickname. Okay. I didn't even fucking write them down.
So please. I read them and I was like, I'm not going to sit there and say all of them.
I have a few. It's. Her nicknames are ridiculous.
Mary Ochi? Yeah. And then Ochi just by itself.
Mother Mary, Mary Manson, Linda D. Manson.
I want to know. Okay. My favorite one. Yes.
Christine Marie Utes. I just, I didn't even see Christine Marie Utes.
Like, what? When I read it on whatever I read it, I was like, Linda D?
Like, your fucking name is Mary. I'm confused.
And then Christine Marie Utes. And Christine Utes.
Some of these nicknames... I have... Because I wanted to make sure to write down all the nicknames because they are bananas for all of these.
Like... Oh, for his kid? Oh, it's amazing.
And for... Okay, so... I love it. I'm jumping ahead.
So when this comes out, I'll tell you the nicknames, because...
So he begins dating Mother Mary, Christine Yutes, Linda Dee, Mary Bruner, and 17 other people.
Just kidding. It's just one person. Eventually the two move in together and somehow Charlie convinces her to let 18 other women live with them.
Damn. If Annie was like, oh, I just have these 18 other fucking ladies that are going to live with us.
I'd be like. Please feel free to go fuck yourself and, like, no.
Like, goodbye. He even brought a 16-year-old into the relationship.
Well, it was the summer of love, so. the summer of 2011.
Everyone was welcome. Um... Yeah, that's not okay.
And he was having relations with all of them.
He was having fucking relations. You know what?
After spending a lot of time in reformed schools and prisons, having sex with other dudes.
I'm sure he needed 18 to keep up with them.
He was pretty psyched to be having sex with one. so they basically i feel like they ended up being like his groupies yeah oh yeah rock star charlie they were calling them like charlie's girls yeah He ended up, he hooked up with a dude named Reverend Dean Morehouse while he was hitchhiking.
The ref. Obviously. Obvi. As Charlie does.
He gave Charlie a piano. You just gave him a piano.
And he traded that for a VW van. That's what the summer of love was.
Wow. Okay, I know that I just said that I didn't want to be alive.
I took it back, but I'm recanting that statement again.
I wanted to be alive. He traded APM. for a VW bug.
And that's when he started like collecting family.
That's when he started bringing in girls.
Oh yeah, like putting them on the fucking bus.
Because when you pull up in a VW bug, and they like revamped it and like put pillows in it and shit oh for sure so he has these 18 girls living with him like some of them fall off and then some of them get like he like finds these little like hitchhikers and stuff like that and he's picking up ladies everywhere oh yeah Because the second lady that he added to the group is an important one.
Because that's... Is this squeaky? Squeaky frown.
All right. Can we just... Ew. The way she got her nickname.
Like, I gotta go. Oh, I don't know the nickname. oh tell me you don't know how no i don't know why they called her squeaky no i'm gonna wait to tell you because it goes with another part of the story and it's fucking great Oh, I'm excited.
Is it how they got to stay at Spahn Ranch?
Yeah. Oh, yes. I think it was in 1967 that he met Squeaky.
Yeah, whose name is Lynette. Lynette Squeaky From.
And she... She didn't end up in the end, like, you know, spoiler alert, they murder people later.
In case you weren't aware. In case you weren't aware of where this was going. she didn't end up being complicit in any of the murders later right like she was there But she did end up going to prison forever for pulling a gun on Gerald Ford in 1975, which is interesting.
And she did end up spending the rest of her life in jail, but not for being associated with Charles Manson, which is very like.
That's impressive that you are associated with Charles Manson for your whole life and you didn't go to prison for that.
If you look up her Wikipedia page, it literally says like, attempted assassin yeah literally because i think the gun didn't go off but she but she pulled one pulled a gun on the president and she was like she was also friends with phil hartman and in high school which is like bizarre to me very weird I don't know why that like kind of blew my mind she's got an interesting rap sheet all over.
Yeah, she does. But she's an interesting... Like, she's one of the ones that I think people just, like, associate with this whole thing, so...
Yeah. He had like a homecoming queen at one point.
He did. One of them is a homecoming queen.
I think one of the main murderers. I can't remember which one. is it it might be leslie van houten i think it is because van houten just always to me sounds like such a fucking homecoming but i'm sure we'll get to them later but anyways they're all involved in part 2 you'll hear more about them part 2 part 2
Yeah, the third member that they picked up around this time was Patricia Krenwinkel.
Who's a keep there later. She's another one.
Like, these are all names that probably sound familiar.
Write them down on a post-it. Write that shit down.
Hers... Keep that handy. She's AKA, because every one of these bitches has crazy nicknames.
So she was a.k.a. Big Patty. Would hate that name.
Don't call me Big Anything. What a rough name.
Big Patty. Like, that's not cool. Her other nicknames were Yellow, Marnie Reeds, or Katie.
Like, like. Maybe. I think they just did drugs and were like, what do you want your name to be now?
Literally. I think it's ridiculous. And when she met Charlie, it was in 1967 too, so when they met Squeaky Frome.
And they slept together immediately. They did?
Why? And she's... This is really sad. I'm just kidding.
I knew that. This is really sad, though, because she said...
When they slept together, he was the first person to ever tell her she was beautiful.
Oh. And that that's why she said from that point on he could do no wrong and she would follow him anywhere.
So he, like... And he... So this is really sad and, like... But he... was so good at, like, preying on this kind of, like, vulnerability.
Because she, like, quit her job, left her apartment, left her Well, at this point, he wasn't really, like, preying on it, I don't think.
I think he was preying on it to get followers, but I think he was preying on it to get followers to be a rock. rockstar like i literally think that was his end game right so i think he was just trying to get people like i don't think he was violently no i don't think so either like i'm gonna turn these people into murderers like i think you're kind of right because like i think it was like he didn't have a family i have sex with everybody and take drugs yeah Now, she, like, obviously had super low self-esteem.
Her nickname was Big Patty. I mean, that's... I really hope he wasn't calling her that.
Like, you're beautiful, Big Patty. You're beautiful.
Also, any interview you watch with Charlie Manson, he's just screaming.
Oh, my God. And he's just, like, one of those dudes that's like, you dig?
Literally, like, so, like... fucked up on drugs.
He's such a parody of himself. But I just picture him being like, Big Patty, you're beautiful!
Big Patty, you're beautiful! because he's just so like I just picture him screaming he also has like a really like kind of like Not, like, an accent, but... He just has that, like, hippie accent.
Yeah. That, like, beat poet. Yeah. Yes.
Like, he always feels like he's telling you something.
Like, I feel like someone should be snapping.
Yeah, he's always, like, performing poetry at all times.
Like, yeah, everybody should just be like... but in his later interviews where he's like greasy as fuck and like and he's just real dirty and he's like And I think he just like got mad that like because he's always saying like if people thought if I was as mad as like as crazy as everybody thinks I am blah blah. but I think he got in his own head and got crazy paranoid.
I literally don't think he was crazy. I think that he just... went crazy I think he did yeah like he was I don't think he was crazy to start no I don't either.
I think he literally... I think he was very misguided.
I think drugs had a lot to do with it. Drugs scrambled the shit out of his brain.
So I don't think he was crazy. I think he was definitely like...
His brain had fucking holes in it. Yeah, I mean, and I think he was very misguided in his thinking.
And I think that drugs definitely played a role in his upbringing, obviously.
Right. But another thing about Krenwinkel, just to throw it in there for future riff... is that if you know this case, you've probably seen the crime scene photos, or maybe some of them.
Or like know about it at least. You probably know that there's an infamous death to pigs that got written in blood. on um i think it was the wall in the la bianca's house which were victims we'll talk about them in part two um And she was the one who wrote that.
Right. She was also the one that wrote Helter Skelter.
And spelled it wrong. And spelled it Hilter Skelter.
Yeah. Super embarrassing. Real embarrassing.
Like if you're going to make a spelling error, now is not the time.
Like they just needed you to do that real quick.
You had one job. I mean. Yeah, you would run the job.
Come on, man. So, and she's actually the longest serving female prisoner in the California penal system.
Wow. Yeah, so that's interesting. She's a piece of shit too.
Yeah, fuck her. She'll be there forever.
Yeah. But yeah, I just wanted to add her in there because...
She's a big role. These are kind of bigger names and they'll come up later.
Like Squeaky and her are pretty big. And Leslie Van Houten for that.
Leslie Van Houten and... there's a couple other that i can't name off the top of my head but once we go to them yeah once we got there you're gonna know oh yeah you'll know you will know So then they get an old school bus and revamp that with like hippie pillows.
And they like live in there. Yeah, that's where they lived.
Like, they went up and down the... They were on, like, a road trip, basically.
They went all the way up to Washington State, back down through, like, Mexico, and back to Los Angeles, where they eventually settled.
Yeah. During the time that they were living on the bus, though, Mary, the original gal, Mother Mary, fucking Utes, blah, blah, blah. um became pregnant and gave birth to their son valentine michael aka poo bear And I wrote that in capital letters with like several question marks.
AKA Pooh Bear. Pooh Bear. Several of the women assisted in the birth, which took place in a condemned house.
I was literally just gonna be like, and where did it take place?
And I literally wrote dot dot dot yikes.
Yeah. That's really all you can say is yikes to that.
You gave birth with your husband or your...
Like, man's other ladies ripping your fucking poo bear out of your... Yikes.
Like, girlfriend. Look around. You gotta get right.
Look around, sweetie. Get right with something.
Put the LSD down. Do you know, how did the umbilical cord get cut?
Did somebody like bite it? Charlie bit it.
Am I shocked? Charlie is wildened. Charlie's fucking wildened.
He is wildened, man. Is that true? It is.
It's true. He said that there was nothing else around, so he had to bite the umbilical cord.
Wow, that's some good old hippie shit. Yeah, that's hardcore.
That's like Ozzy Osbourne shit. Yeah, that's like, that's next level.
Wow. That's some dirty hippie shit right there.
So we bit the umbilical cord off. So we bit the umbilical cord.
At this point, I read that they were starting to frequent this infamous L.A. party house called the Spiral Staircase.
I want to name my house. house though right like apparently bad shit happened there though there was like devil worship satanic activities animal sacrifices blood drinking Yeah.
So it was bad news bears. And Charlie actually blames this house and his family. frequenting this house for like the dark turn they took from just being fucking dirty hippies on a bus with each other To like madness and murder because he called these people like hardcore devil worshipping kind of people.
That's scary. And at this point he said that not in a million years would I have predicted that things would turn out bloody and bad.
So at this point, he said he would never have seen the turn it took.
So at this point, he was just like, let's make music and have sex and take drugs.
Let's not sacrifice animals. and really turned shit for the worse that's scary um in august 1968 the family moved to spawn ranch um which was originally a television set, and it was like a movie set for Western films.
Yeah, which is crazy. Which is actually really cool.
Yeah, I think that's so badass. Like, not badass.
It's, like, interesting. Like, you can probably see... these places in these well and the like the girl said that they used to like play games and like act like they were like westerners like they would just run around all day like playing fucking weird games exactly What else do you do?
You can see, like, it was used in Bonanza, The Lone Ranger, and Zorro.
Yeah, so it was, like, that's crazy to think that.
So it was actually, like, yeah. Like, legit movies.
So weird. Such bad juju. Yeah, for real.
Well, so by the time they moved there, the owner of the ranch was an old man named George Spahn.
Um, and he was going blind, so he let them live there in exchange for work around the ranch.
And allegedly, Manson ordered some of the women to have sex with him. and they all well so he like ordered them to have sex with him and that's how squeaky from got her nickname Because she, I think, had the most sex with him and when he touched the inside of her thigh, she would squeal.
Oh my lord. So there's that. That's how Squeaks got her nickname.
So cute. She was like. probably in her 20s or something and he was like 80 something years old oh yeah He was, yeah, I think he was 80 years old.
Yeah. And she was kind of, she was kind of smart about it, though, because she got to stay in the main house.
Yeah, I mean... So they all had to sleep in these, like, dirty-ass cabins, and she was like, well... She was like, if I gotta have sex with George, I'm gonna live somewhere.
Yeah. Nice. I mean... And from what I read, he didn't force her to do it.
Like she just was like, I'll do it. Manson did it?
Yeah, that's what I read at least. Oh, okay.
That she kind of was like cool with it. It was like, well, I get to stay in the main house.
I don't know about the other girls, but I think she was like, she liked the amenities.
I read that he ordered some of them to have sex.
He probably did. Which I, later on, and I've seen like documentaries and stuff that some of them ordered it's with the uh the vibe here yeah because i remember at like one point i read that like when he first showed up on the music scene he was just playing music in like bars for tips yeah and that the way he would get the tips was that he would tell everybody that him and his two friends had just escaped from prison and they were waiting outside.
Like if no one gave him tips, he would say this.
And then he'd say we were planning to rob this place, but I told them that you guys were going to give me tips so that they won't, you know, like, so I...
If you don't make it the honest way, I'm going to bring them in here and they're going to rob this place.
So give me money or they're going to rob it.
And he was like, it's surprisingly effective.
It's surprisingly effective. But this just made me think that, like, later he actually met some of, like, the rock stars of the time.
Like, he met Neil Young somehow. And Neil Young was actually kind of impressed by him.
He has a song about, um... Like Charlie Manson and everything that happened.
Oh, does he? I didn't even know that. That's interesting.
I guess he said to some rock writer... At the time, he said he had this kind of music that nobody else was doing.
He would sit down with the guitar and start playing and make up stuff different every time.
Musically, I thought he was very unique.
I thought he really had something crazy, something great.
He was like a living poet. Damn. Which is pretty.
So he literally could have been a fucking rock star.
I think like he just like he had, I think the sound like the sound that the time was going for. he had something and even John Phillips of the Mamas and the Papas which was a huge band at the time They were like the California Dreamin' people.
They almost were like talking about recording together at one point.
Which is crazy. But he said about Manson, I just shudder every time.
I'd say, no, I think I'll pass. Well, because Charlie was probably like...
They're like, I'm gonna record with you.
You dig? Like, you dig? Snap it, snap, snap.
Snap it, snap, snap. Bongo, bongo. And he just starts throwing LSD on his tongue.
Literally, he's like, take this, you dig?
He's like, no, I don't want anything to do with that.
Well, he also met Dennis Wilson. And in parentheses, I wrote dude from the Beach Boys.
Drummer from the Beach Boys. I just wrote dude.
Dude. He basically is just dude from the Beach Boys.
He's like the least... important one i like the beach boys music i don't know anything about them but like i i put them on my playlist that's what's funny because it's like and i think you do that because you were raised by papa Well, yeah, and Papa fucking loves the Beach Boys.
My dad is a Beach Boys fanatic. He loves the Beach Boys.
And apparently they're all like a bunch of... like kind of fucked up individual yeah like i don't want to i don't want to be like slanderous here but like i haven't heard great things yeah i've heard like weird like they're kind of crazy Yeah.
But Charlie fucking could have fit right in.
Yeah. And this is actually, this is a huge thing that happened.
This is a huge part of the whole entire story.
Yeah. In the summer of 1968, Charlie meets the dude from fucking The Beach Boys.
Wilson because Wilson picks up two women from the Manson family who were actually Patricia Krenwinkel and Ella Jo Bailey.
Big caddy. Yeah, Big Patty there. They were hitchhiking.
So he brings them to his house in Pacific, is it Palisades?
Palisades? palisades i think yeah we're not from california i'm from fucking massachusetts i'm like try saying any of our town names okay say worcester um so he takes them out for a few hours and then the next morning He... is met by Charlie Manson in his own driveway.
Obviously. So, like, Charlie Manson essentially broke into his house and, like, greeted him at his own fucking house.
And he's like, oh, you have two of my girls?
I'm just gonna live here now. And then he walked inside and was greeted by many of the women of the Manson family.
So they were literally just chilling in his house.
I love it. But they actually became close with, like, him.
Yeah. Like, he became close with the family and they lived there.
Yeah, they all lived there. And over the next few months, they would hang out, sing, do drugs together.
Wilson paid for studio time where Manson recorded songs that he'd written.
Which is so crazy. You can listen to those songs too.
A lot of the demos are around. I've never listened to them because I don't know if I want to.
They're creepy. Because I don't know if I want to have a Charlie Manson song stuck in my head.
I don't know if I'm ready for that. I think they're more just, like, unsettling.
Yeah. No. I'm not shocked. Um... Also, fun fact, this is gross, but he apparently paid for some of the treatment of the woman's gonorrhea.
Oh, that's nice of them. They also once borrowed his car and wrecked it and it cost almost $21,000 to fix because it was unsured.
Oh, shit. So overall, he apparently spent $100,000 on the Manson family in total.
I bet he's regretting picking up those chicks.
And they also, because they had like, such close ties with him.
They met other people in the entertainment business, including Greg Jacobson, Terry Milcher, and Rudy Altobelli.
Altabelli? That sounds good. Who owned the house that Sharon Tate and Roman Polanski would later rent from him.
Oof. Major yikes is what I wrote in parentheses.
Not a good home. Yeah. So during the time that they were living with Wilson and Like, then they moved to Spawn Ranch.
Charlie becomes more and more obsessed with the, like, idea that he's, like, this godlike figure.
And his followers... He thought that his followers were... and told them that they were reincarnations of the original Christians.
Obviously. He led his family on many acid trips where he would guide them. throughout their trips and he would reenact the crucifixion as one does you know like i just did like an hour ago for sure absolutely And I wasn't on acid, but it was still amazing.
Yeah. In one of the interviews, I think it's Patricia Krenwinkel.
I'm not positive. but i was watching this annie documentary on it and um she said like she remembers like being on acid and like watching him and he was so in control And she just remembered feeling so out of control.
And then she said, she was like, but then I like realized I never saw him take the acid.
So I'm sure he took ass at one point. Oh, for sure.
In many points, I'm sure. But when he was... like trying to be the one being god playing god he wouldn't take it and he would really put them all on because he's putting them all in such a warped place Where he can literally just dip his fingers into their minds and just scramble it up.
He would say to that, because a lot of them were runaways, too.
Oh, yeah. They ran away to live with Charlie Manson.
There was like 16, 17 year olds. Yeah. Like when they first joined.
And he would say to them, like, I still see your mother on you.
Like, why is your mother on you? Like. Or, like, a piece of you.
Yeah, like shit that was really gonna... Like, fuck them up mentally and... because he preyed on the most vulnerable parts on the little tiny things that were like a part of them yep he and like this is like random and I don't even know if it i don't know why he did this maybe you can know because you're a science person or like explain it to me but One of them said that he would put his hands up and they would put their hands on his and he would move his hands all around and move their hands.
And you are supposed to mirror exactly, like, the face that he was making.
Maybe that's something, I mean, I don't know if Charlie Manson was reading about mirror neurons.
Sorry. But it's supposed to be that we have mirror neurons that we will mirror other people's Basically, like, expressions and emotions.
And maybe he was trying to delve deep into that and start...
Or maybe he was just so spiritual that that's what he thought.
He could be using that as, like, manipulating that scientific fact for his betterment, which if he was... man like he really could have done awesome things if he had used that brain and not destroyed it with drugs seriously because um but yeah so he would like do like like fucked up things to them basically when they were on acid and other drugs trying to get them as his little army It's almost like a Jeffrey Dahmer style, like, way less violent.
How Jeffrey Dahmer wanted to make, like, people...
Like his little zombies? Yeah, yeah. Like, but Jeffrey Dahmer did it in a much different way.
Yeah, very different. but it's like the same mentality of like, I want to make them what I want them to be.
Yeah. He was molding them in like a, like a precarious situation so that i can make them what i want yeah yeah yeah like mold them Well, so, I don't know if this is jumping ahead too far, so stop me if you want to add anything, but In addition to believing that his family was reincarnated, he also believed that there was a great racial war coming between black and white people.
He felt that soon black people would rise in rebellion against white people, and he referred to this as helter-skelter.
And where did he get that? He really, really loved this band.
I don't know if you guys have heard of them.
The Beatles? The Beatles. I hope I said that correctly.
Yeah, I think it's not Beatles. No, no, Beatles.
Yeah, Beatles, okay. Yeah. So he was obsessed with the Beatles and he felt like many of their songs were like speaking to him indirectly.
Yeah. messages and there was one instance where I don't know if they lived in a yellow house or something in the middle of this but he called it their yellow submarine probably that makes sense it was like hiding them yeah and he he saw he saw what he thought were like clues In their songs.
In the biblical book of Revelation and the Beatles' White Album in particular, which is their... trippiest album because they were on so much lsd he really mainly saw stuff in the songs piggies blackbirds and helter skelter Which is piggies and Helter Skelter played a main role in what we'll talk about next week.
Wilson did eventually, like, obviously kick them out of his house.
Yeah. And, um... Manson later accused the Beach Boys of reworking one of his songs and including it on their 1969 album 2020 without crediting it. him i wonder if they i bet they did that so from everything i've read they did yeah like i think he was right It says that Wilson took one of his songs called Cease to Exist and turned it into the Beach Boys song Never Learn Not to Love.
And he took full writing credit for himself.
Damn. He changed like a couple of the lyrics.
Like changed it around. And then took full Reddit.
Yeah. And then they just, you know, harmonized and made it their own.
That's a huge thing in his life, too, that he, like, cites as, you know.
He's had rejection his whole life and now he finally does something and somebody else takes credit for it.
But that's bound to happen to musicians all over the place.
It probably has. And that producer you mentioned, Terry Melcher, that he introduced him to?
He actually came to watch him perform at Spahn Ranch.
Like he agreed to watch him in May 1969.
I have down here. But he left and was like unimpressed by everything.
And he cites that too. So again, another rejection.
And he said like, that's when things got really dark.
And that's the thing, like, he kept, like, it didn't work out with Dennis Wilson, it didn't work out with Terry Milcher.
He kept getting so close. And then it would totally, like, disappear out of the space.
And that's when he started, like... the crazy LSD trips with his family and like trying to control them and being like, there's a racial war coming.
Exactly. Now that he was doing that, like, spiral staircase shit, like, partying and stuff, he was getting...
It was just getting darker. Well, like it's almost like little seedlets were like planted like a trail.
And then it's like this big fucking explosion at the end.
Which we will get there. Now this is going to be, we've decided a three-parter.
So you're in for the long haul. yeah i'm taking the reins for three apples this is ash taking the driver's seat for three whole Except thank God you're here because you also helped with the research because I'm the most, I did the most basic amount of research.
No, I actually did. No, you did. I thought my research was, like, pretty good.
Yeah, I was going to say, you did good research.
I just get, like, into the little minutia.
But, yeah. So, that's part one. of charlie so now we're so next week we're gonna get into the murders everybody next week's gonna be the gritty dark times So like take a bubble bath this weekend.
Take a bubble bath, do a face mask. yeah drink some like mimosa yeah have a mimosa those are always nice oh my god or have a oh you didn't drink your milkshake i got you I didn't yet.
Ooh, that's exciting. It has coffee in it, though, so don't drink it now.
Well, it's probably not real coffee. Exactly.
Oh, shout out to this podcast I listen to called And That's Why We Drink.
Because they – it's, like, two girls, and one of them does ghost stories and one of them does – like just like true crime what we do that's that's a really good it's a cool setup yeah and one of them some ghost stories too on here we're gonna delve into like heck yeah Well, so but one of them drinks like alcohol, but the other girl doesn't drink and she just drinks milkshakes.
That's amazing. And I literally listen to it every day.
Is this us? It's literally us. And she's always talking about all these yummy milkshakes she has and I was driving today to your house and...
And I remembered that me and Marissa in high school used to go to what was like once Little Peach and then Tedeschi's and now is a 7-Eleven.
And we used to go get these crazy yummy milkshakes because they have a milkshake maker.
Which I had no idea. It's amazing. Yeah, that's amazing.
And I made us both milkshakes and I drank mine in 0.4 seconds.
And I opened the door and she just handed me this.
I didn't even say anything. I was just like, here you are.
Here you are. Here's your coffee milkshake.
Here's your coffee. But yeah, so. Part two.
Part two. Coming at you next week. We just gave you so much to edit out.
We did. So we hope you enjoyed this episode, especially me because I was so nervous.
And you did great. thank you you're doing amazing sweetie you're doing amazing sweetie and we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird Oh my god.
Bye. Subscribe, rate, and review. Bye. Hold that note.
Oh, I have asthma. Do you think I was an alto?
I think you nailed that soprano. Thank you.
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