Hey weirdos, Alayna here.
If you're looking to kick back and relax with Morbid, Wondery Plus is the way to go.
It's like having a cozy seat in our haunted mansion.
No ads, just you and early access to new episodes.
You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or in Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
You're listening to a Morbid Network Podcast. Redacted Declassified Mysteries is a new podcast hosted by me, Luke LaManna.
Each week, I dive into the hidden truths behind the world's most powerful institutions from covert government experiments to bizarre assassination attempts.
Follow redacted on the wondering app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hey, weirdos! I'm Ash!
And I'm Alayna! And this is Morbid.
This is Morbid! It's Morbid in the late morning.
I'm tired. I know. You know when you sleep too...
like not to brag but you know when you sleep too good?
It's like when your hair is too soft. Yeah, yeah it happens.
Actually, guys my hair was too soft this morning I had to put some dry shampoo in it.
Her hair is too soft and she slept too good.
I know. My skin is too clear, my skin is actually not very clear right now.
You're just really...
You're struggling, you know?
I'm really out here.
I have thoughts and prayers everybody.
I have a couple spots on my face that I had to conceal, don't feel today.
So you know? Just like you and I say prayers are just like you.
I've been. Yeah. Ash, she's just like, uh, this is an off -putting intro.
It is very off putting.
I imagine if this is the first, uh, the first episode someone chooses to listen to Christ almighty.
They're out. Sorry.
They're gone. It was nice knowing you.
I'm a good person. I swear.
I'm a good person. I swear!
No. We're a little silly today.
We are a little bit silly.
I'm hungry so I'm gonna play a role in this episode.
I think I just ate my weight in chia seed pudding.
Good for you man. It was fucking good.
I have pineapple next to me if you want some.
She does, like you over there like - Oh thank you - like Elena if you want some.
Elena if I could I would give you the pineapple through the speaker Weirdo.
But I haven't figured that out yet.
Thank you. I appreciate that.
I bet ya. I'll wait until after the episode.
Yeah, it's weird to eat on mic.
Yeah, I don't want to give you guys like a me so phone you a moment.
It's pretty fucking gross.
Um, yeah. If you Oh, one fun thing is if you haven't listened to the rewatcher yet, what the fuck are you doing?
Dumb ass. Where we're in the last season of Buffy the Vampire Slayer over there.
And then we're moving on to another show.
The way that I was just about to say.
Yeah, just, boop. We are not telling you.
Like, we have not announced that yet.
We're not telling you, but I think it will be one that you'll be excited about, because it's a lot of fun.
Yeah, and if you don't know what we're talking about, we have another show called The Rewatcher, we cover Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
I've never seen it.
Or, like I've seen a couple episodes, but for the most part I've never seen it.
And Elena has and Mikey has.
And now we're going into another show that I have literally never seen even a single episode and Elena has and Mikey has.
Yeah this one is gonna be even more wild just because Ash, at least with Buffy, had seen like bits and pieces.
Yeah just like growing up with you.
But this one she's blind.
Yeah I have nothing.
Completely in the dark about so this is gonna be a real experience.
In fact I was getting—you guys were talking about it in code earlier.
Yeah me and Mikey were texting hilarious moments.
It was making me T -0'd.
And we said don't worry we'll show you this conversation when they come up.
Same. That was nice.
That was nice of you because I was like.
But there's something really fun with it to that we'll get to announce soon.
A little added fun thing with that season of the re -watcher.
Is there? Yes. We were just talking about it.
Oh, yeah! Yeah. Yeah.
I was like, what? Anyway.
So, yeah. Go check it out if you haven't watched or listened to the re -watcher yet.
It's a lot of fun over there.
It is fun. And I think you guys will dig it.
Yeah, and we do Scream too, so listen to Scream.
With Caleb! With Caleb!
We listen to and watch horror movies.
We do both. We cover them and we all pick a different one every week and it gets pretty fucking crazy.
It does, it gets funny over there.
Yeah, it gets silly.
So, if you needed to round out your morbid listening experience, I would highly recommend that.
Just a whole bunch of Elena and Ash.
Yeah! And Franz. And Franz, and Franz.
All right, well, I have a weird fucking case for you today.
Yeah, you do. I know this case like I knew of it, but I didn't know all the details This is the case of Frederick Borden and the disappearance of Nicholas Barclay Intera santa.
It is an interesting case.
It's pretty sad But fascinating mmm, and you're just like how the fuck did this happen?
Yeah. I'll tell you how I am wondering that So let's start at the beginning which is June of 1994 Nicholas Barclay was 13 years old and he got into an argument with his mom over something pretty trivial.
Nobody really knows like exactly what they were arguing about, but it was a pretty common occurrence between the two of them to be fighting.
So Nicholas was definitely a troubled kid.
He had a lot going on.
We'll get into some of it later, but that specific day his mother, Beverly Dollarhide, was really just in no mood to entertain this argument.
So rather than continue it all, she gave Nicholas five dollars, and she was like go play basketball with your friends.
Like, get out of the house." Yeah.
A few hours later, after his friends had gone, like, all gone home, Nicholas called the house to ask his mother to pick him up.
But his half brother, Jason, picked up the phone and told him that their mom was sleeping and he didn't want to have to wake her up.
So he was like, you gotta walk home.
And hours and hours passed and Nicholas never did return home.
Oh no! Wasn't, that's such a sad way to, you know, just to think that they were arguing.
Your last conversation.
Yeah. Yeah. They were arguing and then also being like, nah, I'm not coming to get you.
Yeah. Walk home. Oh that's sad.
So sad. So at first the family thought that Nicholas probably ran away and they assumed, you know, he'd just be back soon.
His sister Carrie Gibson said he'd run away before for a night or two.
He was mad at mom and said, I'm leaving.
I'll find a new mom and a new home.
He was not this nice, sweet innocent kid.
He was a very street smart city boy.
But Nicholas didn't return after three days.
So Beverly filed a missing persons report at that point.
But he's 13. Yeah, and he's been gone for three days.
Yeah. That's the likelihood of them finding him At this point is pretty low.
Yeah, so when the news that Nicholas had gone missing was made public Shockingly, it didn't come as a surprise to anybody familiar with the family According to neighbors the police would visit the house a few times per month because the arguments between Beverly and the kids or between Beverly And her boyfriend got so heated Yeah It seemed to be a pretty known fact that if that Nicholas was a difficult child He was constantly getting into loud arguments with his mom He was fighting with his brother Jason, and he had been known to run away from home on occasion Beverly said he thought he was an adult
we called him 13 going on 30 It was very difficult to discipline him if he made his mind up.
He was going to do something There wasn't much I could do so when he was reported missing No one outside the family seemed particularly alarmed his disappearance never made the news it wasn't news to them.
It was just news to us It's just sad.
So weeks and weeks passed, but there was no sign of Nicholas anywhere.
No one heard from him at all.
The belief that he had just like run away pretty soon gave way to the belief that actually there might have been some kind of foul play involved.
Beverly said, I thought somebody offered him a ride and he got into the car.
I think he would've gotten into a car with someone who kidnapped him.
That's so scary. I know.
Those weeks turned into months, the months turned into years, and it seemed like Nicholas was never coming back.
Then, out of nowhere in the fall of 1997, three years after he had disappeared, the family got a call from the U .S. Embassy in Spain saying they had found Nicholas in a children's home and that he was desperate to return home.
Can you even begin to imagine this?
Like this... That would be unthinkable.
Like you're just getting a call from a… from a foreign embassy and they're just like, hey, your kid's here.
Just showed up. And how long was this again?
Three years. Three years later.
Think of how long three years is.
Yeah. Like three years is an eternity.
An eternity. So… and every single day waking up just like filling in the blanks of what happened to your kid.
Oh, yeah. And then you get a call like, oh, he's… he's just here and now he gets to come home.
Yeah! Like, you'd be - you'd be - I feel like the mix of complex emotions that you would be feeling would be so over stimulating because you'd be like - it's like excitement, grief for what they could have potentially been through.
How did they get there?
Who was with them? Yeah.
What have they been dealing with?
How did they get all the way to fucking Spain when they were living in Texas?
Yeah. Like, holy shit.
Yeah. Well according to the Spanish authorities, Nicholas had told them very little and was all accounts very deeply traumatized by what had happened to him.
From what they could piece together, this is like a little bit triggering, uh Nicholas had been kidnapped from Texas by human traffickers who sold him into essentially sexual slavery until he was able to escape after three years of enduring that abuse.
He ended up being discovered by two French tourists who were in Spain at the time and they found him by the side of the road near a diner and just called the authorities were convinced that he was an American, and they were eager to return him to his family.
His family, obviously, was elated by the news that after three years with no answers, their son and their brother, their loved one, was coming home.
His sister Carrie coordinated everything with the embassy, and she made plans herself to immediately travel to Spain to be the one to bring her brother home.
But because of the circumstances of his disappearance, the case ended up being transferred to the FBI, who would now be opening an investigation and vowed to capture the men who had kidnapped him in the first place.
But this complicates things, obviously.
Oh, massively. Yeah, yeah.
So when Carrie arrived in Spain to meet her brother, she really didn't know what to expect.
I would have no idea what to expect.
From what she had been told, he had experienced horrific abuse at the hands of his kidnappers, and obviously she knew that going through an experience like that will leave some kind of long -term emotional effect on a person.
Absolutely. Like psychological scars.
And she also knew that three years had passed, and in that time Nicholas would have changed physically, especially when you think about the jump from 13 to 16.
Oh, for sure. Like, that's a big jump.
Yeah. So it seemed likely that maybe she wouldn't recognize him immediately.
And despite having prepared herself for the worst, when they finally met in Spain, Carrie didn't have much trouble recognizing her brother.
She said he had changed somewhat, but as far as she could tell, he was Nicholas.
That said, there were things about him that did give her pause.
She said, he talked with a funny accent, but it was always a whisper, very quiet, like he was hiding.
She also noticed that his eyes, which were always a very vibrant blue, if you look up pictures of him, he has like striking eyes.
Now they were light brown.
So that's weird. Yeah, that doesn't happen.
The handlers from the embassy explained that while he was being held captive, the abusers would beat him if he spoke English, so he learned to speak in a way that would please them.
And they explained that according to Nicholas, the captors had also injected his eyes with some sort of solution to change their color.
Holy shit. Yeah. And as for his quiet skittish behavior, obviously Carrie rationalized it by reminding herself that he had been severely tormented and traumatized.
Yeah. So that was gonna change his behavior around others.
For sure. You know?
So that night she spent hours going through an old photo album with her brother just giving him updates on everybody reminiscing pointing out people being like you remember auntie remember uncle this like mom you must miss mom yeah and he said very little but he seemed interested and she said she could tell that he loved seeing the pictures.
But before they could leave Spain and return to Texas the U .S. Embassy obviously needed to certify Nicholas's identity.
As far as Carrie could tell it was her brother but they needed actual like information to confirm that this was really him before they would issue him a passport.
Yeah of course. So the following day Nicholas met with a judge from the embassy who had devised a strategy to determine if this was in fact Nicholas Barclay.
In their meeting the judge showed Nicholas five photographs of his family, his quote -unquote family, and asked him to identify various people in those pictures.
He correctly identified the first four but he was unable to identify the fifth person like the person in the fifth image huh yeah now even though he hadn't been able to identify all five correctly the judge reasons that four out of five was sufficient and the embassy issued him a new passport and he was off to return home to Texas I mean I trauma that's the thing I can I there's like that element of unthinkable trauma here yeah that is playing a role in all of these decisions, I feel like, it would play a role in most of my decisions.
Three years of being human trafficked.
I mean, that's something most of us luckily, fortunately can never even begin to conceive of the trauma that would come to that.
Taught to speak a different language, injected in the eyes.
Forced to speak a different language.
Right, like injected in the eyes.
Big things play on.
So I can see how they would be like, okay, yeah.
They got four out of five.
Maybe his memory is not gonna be as clear.
Right, you know, you can see it, you can kind of see it.
Yeah, of course. So with all the details on the paperwork squared away, Cari and Nicolas went to the airport the next day and they were, you know, prepared to leave Spain.
To Cari, he seemed incredibly nervous about the flight or returning home, maybe a combination of both.
She said, I didn't understand why he was so nervous.
He was constantly watching people, watching me.
He was always watching me.
Obviously, she had some kind of strange feeling about it.
Once they got back home, though, Nicolas was welcomed with open arms by almost everybody and his family.
At first the attention and warmth did seem to be overwhelming for him.
To the family he seemed pretty shy, pretty withdrawn, obviously very guarded.
But like Carrie they reminded themselves that he had undergone a profoundly traumatic experience, so it made sense that he wasn't, like, super duper happy, you know, like he was before.
Yeah, of course. So within a couple months, Nicolas did seem to relax and he was settling in.
He started hanging out with his old friends.
They were super happy to have him back, obviously.
and he even seemed to be kind of developing a crush on one of the girls in the neighborhood.
The change was positive, and it seemed to indicate that he was returning to his old self.
But there was still one big hurdle before he and the family would be able to put this whole thing behind them.
Because of the alleged kidnapping and the human trafficking, the FBI was obviously eager to pursue the case, and they wanted to speak with him immediately.
So after letting him get settled back in with his family, they scheduled a meeting with agent, Nancy Fisher, and Beverly and Nicholas sat down with her at the Texas Center for Missing and Exploited Children.
Given what had happened, Nicholas was obviously eager to get through the interview as fast as he could and never talk about what had happened to him again.
Can't blame him. While that would be easy to understand, though, there was still something about Nicholas and his behavior that struck Nancy Fisher as unusual.
Later she said, Not that people can't change in three years, but this person did not appear to be 16.
he had a shadow of a beard a dark beard that I doubt Nicholas would have had at the age of 16 since he had blonde hair yeah and if you do look at pictures of like when he was found three years later he looks like he's in his 20s Oh 100 % like he looks like a man yeah shocking it is not to say that like everyone differently yeah you know right like some 16 year olds you're like holy shit you look so much older yeah this was this was a little different but he also obviously appeared to be nervous and uncomfortable, but almost unusually nervous and uncomfortable.
But like the others, Nancy was like he's been traumatized, he's been brutalized, it's gonna change a person especially in this setting where they're disclosing the most horrific details about their abuse to a stranger.
So she gave him a little bit of a leeway here.
out. If you're listening to this podcast, you know that in every great true crime story, there's always one turning point, the moment somebody actually decides to change course.
Well, hello, listener.
Here's your chance for a turning point of your own.
Meat Fume, the flavored air device designed to help you ditch bad habits and feel good about what you're reaching for.
No nicotine, no vapor, no batteries, just an awesome design and flavors like crisp mint, peach blush, and cinnamon hearts.
Let me tell you all about this new alternative to smoking and vaping called Flavored Air.
Our sponsor Fume have created an award -winning Flavored Air device that helps people ditch that bad habit of smoking.
It was founded on the idea that if we stick to good habits, making a change feels easier and less pressurized.
Fume has lots of delicious flavors to choose from, there's crisp mint, orange vanilla, and the new peach blush.
And with flavored air, you can satisfy your oral fixation through a passive diffusion system that utilizes no electronics, no vapor, no combustion.
There's also no nicotine, so it's not addictive.
It's nontoxic flavor, so it's a guilt -free alternative.
And the best part, there's no batteries, you never need to charge it.
Fume has already helped over 400 ,000 people take steps towards better habits.
And now it's your turn.
Use our code, WOMVID, to get a free gift with your Journey Pack, head to trifume .com that's try F -U -M .com and use Code Morbid to claim this limited -time offer today.
Last year, long crime brought you the trial that captivated the nation.
She's accused of hitting her boyfriend, Boston Police Officer, John O 'Keefe with her car.
Karen Reed is arrested and charged with second -degree murder.
The six -week trial resulted in anything but resolution.
We continue to find ourselves at an impasse.
I'm declaring a mistrial in this case.
But now the case is back in the spotlight, and one question still lingers.
Did Karen Reid kill John O 'Keefe?
The evidence is overwhelming that Karen Reid is innocent.
How does it feel to be a cop killer, Karen?
I'm Kristen Thorn, investigative reporter with Law and Crime and host of the podcast, Karen, the Retrial.
This isn't just a retrial.
It's a second chance at the truth.
I have nothing to hide.
My life is in the balance, and it shouldn't be.
I just want people to go back to who the victim is in this.
It's not her. Listen to episodes of Karen, the Retrial, exclusively and ad -free on Wondery+.
According to Nicklaus, he said he had been abducted by the, quote, military overseas on the night that he went missing.
He said his captor approached him on the basketball court, chloroformed him, threw him in a van, drove to the airport and they left the country.
He claimed that from then on they would move him around often, he was always kept in rooms with other children that were also being trafficked, and they were regularly assaulted and sexually abused by high -ranking members of the military, he said.
In the report prepared after the interview, Nancy Fisher described various aspects of his abuse, this is pretty graphic, but she said every night all the kids were raped and molested by men.
These men were American, Mexican, European.
They kept burning him and giving him insects to eat.
His left foot was broken by a crowbar.
The boy's identity was changed by changing the hair color, eye color or other ways.
His eye color was changed from blue to brown by use of a solution.
This is like horrific.
There's unimaginable things.
I can't even like go there.
I can't either. Nicholas claimed that he only managed to escape that night because his captors forgot to close the door securely and that's how he got out.
Damn. Yeah. He said he got out of the building and just ran for hours until he couldn't run anymore and that's when he was discovered by those two French tourists who obviously called the police.
Which you wonder at that point you're like so did anyone else try to escape?
That was my immediate thought.
I was literally just going to say that.
Wasn't we hearing that like other kids showed up?
Yeah they left the door open and one kid's running I'm assuming most not everyone is gonna run obviously.
There's fear but - There's gonna be at least another one.
More than one. Yeah.
So Fisher said later, this was a horrendous interview and I was shaken by it when I left because I felt all the horrific emotional side effects that go with listening to such a story.
So she thanked Nicholas for being super candid with her and she assured him they were going to find the people who had done this to him and bring them to justice.
Before leaving, she reminded the family that because this was an open and ongoing case, they really should avoid speaking with the press because it could compromise the investigation.
Yeah. Despite the warning, the news about Nicholas' ordeal and his return home had already gotten out.
And the family was constantly getting calls from reporters.
About two months after Nicholas had got home, private investigator, Charlie Parker, got a call from a producer at Hard Copy, the national news magazine program.
And they wanted to do a story on Nicholas, but they were having trouble getting in touch with the family.
So it was their intention to hire Parker, who worked out of San Antonio, track the family down and get their consent to cover this story.
Parker actually had no difficulty getting hold of Beverly and Nicholas, and to his surprise they seemed pretty eager to share their story.
Huh. Which was not great, because the FBI literally said, Literally just said, don't do that.
And like anything the FBI tells me to do, I'm, I'm, Probs gonna listen.
Yeah, if they say, don't do that because it's gonna compromise a giant child trafficking ring that they're trying to you know, Eradicate down.
Yeah, listen to that and listen.
Yeah, yeah, just a few days after reaching out to the family though Parker found himself invited into the family home.
He was watching as the local news taped an interview with Nicholas, just sitting in the living room.
In that specific interview, Nicholas is wearing a large jacket pulled up around his neck, a wide brim hat and dark sunglasses.
Okay, interesting. His responses to the interviewer's questions are very short, very quiet and delivered with a distinct heavy French accent.
Which is weird yeah like it that would make you people questioning this I get it yeah like this is it's fucking weird it's strange I can't imagine my like like my child goes missing three years later comes back with different eyes a dark beard and a fucking french accent.
that's it's the eyes that I'm having trouble yeah that what I would have but again like I understand desperation yes it could also be playing a role into this that you are just desperate to have your child back and you will just kind of ignore the red flags because you're like I just want this to be him.
It's like the case that you covered the Bobby Bobby Dunbar Bobby Dunbar.
Yeah it's like you just desperately want your child back so you'll just kind of put yourself in a headspace of like this has to be him.
Yes. Because otherwise something terrible happened.
Otherwise he's gone.
Yeah I can't take that.
Right and I'm sure like in some ways it would feel like don't rip this child away from me like if you know like yeah they're thinking like this is my child or even like this is themselves you know like they've convinced themselves and it's like don't take him away yeah exactly so Charlie Parker was watching the interview in a separate room where he could see Nicholas clearly and as it happened he also found himself standing next to a photograph an old photograph of Nicholas on the wall as he watched Nicholas being interviewed his eyes just kept darting back and forth between the photograph and the young
man in the other room and the more he examined the photo in front of him, the more he started, you know, kind of noting the differences between the two.
He said there was a moment where the hair stood up on the back of your neck and there was just something wrong about it.
The fact that he just like knew.
He just like innately, exactly, yeah, not wanting to tip anybody off to his suspicion though, the next day Parker asked Beverly if she had a picture of Nicholas that he could borrow to kind of study some more.
Yeah. And he remembered that, and this is interesting, he remembered that when Martin Luther King jr. assassin James Earl Ray was arrested in London the authorities used a comparison of his ear and those photographs are in a photograph of ray in order to confirm his identity so Parker enlarged the photo of Nicholas and compared it to the photo of 16 year old Nicholas and its passport and to his surprise the boys ears were not even remotely similar and the two photos oh and our ears don't change no it's entirely possible for somebody to dye their hair, changed the way they speak, maybe even changed
the color of their eyes to seem like they're somebody else.
But again, our ears are like our fingerprints.
They're formed when we're very young and barring some kind of mutilation, they just don't change as we grow older.
So that being the case, Charlie Parker now had compelling evidence that the boy living in Beverly's house was not Nicholas Barclay.
Which also is fucking horrifying.
Terrifying. Horrifying.
I have goosebumps now, I've read through this multiple times.
I have goosebumps. Yeah, I can't.
So fearing that the young man could be a spy or have some kind of nefarious intent, Parker called Nancy Fisher, Special Agent Nancy Fisher, to report his discovery, and he was stunned to find that Fisher didn't seem too interested in what he had to say.
In fact the most she was willing to tell him was just be careful that he didn't intrude on a federal investigation unless he wanted to get charged with a crime.
Oh. Yeah, later she said, I thought I didn't have a right to question their statement that this was their family member because how could they be wrong.
I mean, no one would be wrong about something like that.
Why would you ever take in a stranger, not just a stranger from this country, but a stranger from another country who speaks with a French accent?
This has to be Nicholas Barclay, which I, again, I understand that thought process.
I totally get where they're coming from.
And I get that, but also you're an FBI agent.
Well, for sure. That's the thing.
This is so fucked up with this whole thing because it's different because she's an FBI agent.
That's your job. It's different because you're an FBI agent, but then, like I was just saying that, but then, at the same time, when the fuck do you run into that during your career?
And it's like, at this point, it's so hairy because you are questioning a family who's been grieving for three years.
Yes. The loss of their child, and it's like, and now they have this hope and they are telling you this is their family member.
They're like steadfast about it.
It must be a very strange position to be in to know that it is not and to be like, how are you not seeing it?
You know, like we think of the Bobby Dunbar case and we were saying like, how can you not know that's not your son?
I think probably somewhere.
I think desperation plays a part of just controlling the part of your brain that logically tells you That is not your child, it just shuts it off, I assume?
That's the thing. And I think when, unless you've been in that position, it's probably hard to understand.
But looking from this point of view, you say, dear FBI agent, you got to question it.
If you ruffle some feathers, you ruffle some feathers, you got to let it slick off your back and be like, sorry I'm just doing my job.
Right, well, you know?
We're here talking about it, so you know something happened.
So Nancy Fisher might not have wanted to believe they were dealing with a straight -up imposter, but there were others who were far less willing to entertain this whole charade.
As part of the FBI's investigation into the case, Nicholas was sent to see forensic psychologist Bruce Perry in order to collect more information about his claims about being trafficked.
He later said, Bruce said, I introduced myself and when he spoke back, immediately, I thought, something's wrong here.
As a contractor with the FBI, Perry had interviewed countless survivors of traumatic situations actually unfortunately similar to those that Nicholas said he had gone through and nothing about the boy's behavior seemed to support his story most significantly Nicholas spoke pretty casually about the details of this abuse that he supposedly went through without showing any of the physical and largely unconscious signs of somebody who's been abused there was also the fact that he seemed entirely incapable of speaking fluent English or speaking without an accent, like it seems like he could not do.
Yeah, Perry said that told me about the development of his brain and the development of language.
You just cannot be raised for the first six or seven years of your life in an English speaking home and not be able to speak English without an accent.
I can guarantee you that this kid was not raised in an English speaking family, which it's really is fascinating how people can like pick those little parts of your pathology.
Yeah. And point to like, nope.
And just prove it you know what I mean.
And it's so fascinating just how the brain works and how you might so badly want to change that but you just can't like your brain is just wired that way.
Yeah. So Bruce Perry reported his suspicion to Nancy Fisher and along with what she'd heard from Charlie Parker at that point she could not ignore the obvious fact that whoever it was who had returned home from Spain with Carrie Gibson was not Nicholas barcode.
So fearing now that the family might be in danger she immediately called Carrie Gibson his sister their quote -unquote and told her what they learned.
And to Nancy's great surprise, Carrie seemed uninterested in hearing that the young man living in their house was not her brother and may in fact be a dangerous person.
Later Carrie said she didn't remember Nancy Fisher putting it in like those exact words that this person might be dangerous.
Yeah. But the fact remained that no matter how she phrased it, the family was determined to hold on to the belief that their lost loved one had come back to them.
And it seemed nothing was going to change their minds.
Which, like we're saying over and over again, you can understand a little bit.
It's just a sad situation.
It really is. Very quickly, the Dollar Heights family had gone from willing participants in an FBI investigation to now a serious obstacle in finding the truth.
A few days after Dancy Fisher informed the family about the potential danger, she actually went to Beverly's home to obtain permission to get a DNA sample from Nicholas, but the agents were met at the door with a very uncooperative Beverly.
Not only did she refuse to allow them near Nicholas quote -unquote but when they pushed the issue she threw herself onto the floor and started screaming no and you can't pick me up and you can't make me.
Yeah which is sad. It's heartbreaking.
The whole thing is heartbreaking I mean this is awful.
Yeah. From Nancy Fisher's perspective though the change was remarkable.
She said she wasn't just apathetic she was hostile.
I no longer saw them as a grieving victimized family.
I saw them as a questionable family.
There'd be no reason for them to accept a stranger into their lives unless there was something to hide because she's looking at it like yeah this is a bit nefarious now yeah because it's because I understand that you need to question that you need to say because you you have to look at it from a totally you know unbiased point of view not living in the emotion of it all you need like why are you trying to keep this if I'm telling you this is could be a dangerous stranger this is likely not your son right like why can't we investigate this mm -hmm you know but then you look at the family and you
say well I don't want you to put my put my loved one who I think this is my loved one through more trauma right and I just want to go on with my life right but you can see how it would look nefarious from the other side yeah I know the thing like it wouldn't be super traumatic to get a DNA test to confirm your identity I don't think exactly you know like but you play again but i've never gone through this experience so who knows but while nancy fisher and the other fba the other agents from the fbi continued trying to work with the family private investigator charlie parker was kind of you know
in the background there he was tailing quote -unquote nicholas everywhere he went at this point at times he would reach out in the hope of forming a connection that would allow him to get more information and after about a week or two his efforts seemed to pay off one afternoon charlie Parker invited quote -unquote Nicholas out for breakfast at a local restaurant and they sat down together, they apparently ordered some hotcakes and the conversation eventually turned to the night that Nicholas disappeared several years earlier.
Parker said, you really made your mother mad referring to the fight that he had gotten in with his mother before he left to play basketball.
Mm hmm. And at hearing that, the man sitting across from Charlie Parker put his fork down, looked up at Parker and said, she's not my mother and you know it.
I would shit my pants.
Charlie Parker was probably like wow I thought that was gonna be a lot more difficult.
Yeah obviously Charlie Parker knew he fully knew like he had gone studied the ears and everything like he knew, innately he knew.
You don't go that hard unless you're pretty sure that you're right.
Right but then to have somebody confirm it must be just a whole different thing.
You must be orbiting Yes.
At that point, like I would be shot into the Kuiper belt at that point.
And then you're also like, okay, cool, who the fuck are you sitting across from me?
Who the fuck are you and two, what the fuck do we do next?
Yeah. Like what do I do with this information?
Now I know, but it's like, is the family going to take this?
Yeah. And how are they going to take it?
Exactly. So once the confession was out of his mouth, it didn't take long for the imposter Nicholas' story to fall apart.
A short time after that breakfast meeting with Charlie Parker, he was fingerprinted the fbi who ran the prints through the international database and almost immediately got a hit which like fantastic why the fuck didn't you just do that as a precaution originally okay thank you because my first question was going to be wait a second they didn't fingerprint him why didn't i think of that we could have started like that judge's idea was super cute and super fun like that should have been along with fingerprints right dental records the And the whole nine.
And what's wild is I didn't question earlier.
I think they didn't do fingerprints or deng - I think I just assumed they did.
I think I assumed they did, and now I'm like, wait a second.
Yeah. Why wouldn't you do that to begin with?
Well that's clear as day.
Yeah. Wow. Certainly is.
The fact that they didn't fingerprint him to begin with is mind boggling.
I'm baffled. Truly baffling.
My baffles are baffled.
Truly. So the young man who had been passing himself off as Nicholas Barclay for several months now living in this family's home was in fact, 25 year old French man named Fredrick Bourguin.
Yeah, so see there was a reason he looked that old.
Not only was he 25, he was a fugitive wanted by the Interpol on several counts of impersonating other people all around Europe.
Oh no. They had been living with a motherfucking fugitive.
Oh no. Can you imagine?
That's not good. You think your 13 year old son disappeared.
Not only you think, he did.
He did disappear. Three years later he comes back.
The FBI is like, yay woo, he's back.
We showed him some photos.
He knows you guys. It's great.
And then you find out you've been living with a 25 year old French fugitive?
I'd be like, what the, who did I piss off in a past life?
Seriously, I'd be like, what the, when does it end?
Truly, when does it end?
Holy shit. A 25 year old French fugitive.
You've just been laying your head down at night with that man in your house pretending to be your child and also this guy, what the fuck?
It's weird. This family lost their 13 year old child and you prey upon that?
You gotta be - yeah you gotta be the lowest form of scum.
He is a mentally ill human being.
He I will say has a very tragic backstory, by no means excuses what he did, but there's some psychological thing that played out here.
Hey weirdos, if Ash and Elena's episode on Ken McElroy left you wondering how someone could become so cruel, manipulative, and untouchable, you'll want to hear my psychological breakdown of this case on my podcast, Killer Psyche.
I examined the twisted mindset behind McElroy's reign of terror, how he exploited fear, used charm as a weapon, and turned an entire town into his victims. Understanding what made him tick is exactly the kind of insight I bring on Killer Psyche, where I use my experience profiling criminals for the FBI to uncover what drives people, like Ken McElroy, to become predators.
So if you're curious about the mind behind the mayhem, join me for an inside look at the psychology of a man who got away with everything until he didn't.
Follow Killer Psyche on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hey, it's Mr. Ballin here.
And I am so excited to tell you all about a podcast from Ballin Studios called Redacted Declassified Mysteries.
And it's hosted by the incredible Luke LaManna.
From covert government experiments to bizarre assassination attempts, Redacted dives deep into the astonishing true stories of uncovered secrets, lies, and deception within the world's most powerful institutions.
Stories like the mind -bending truth behind Operation Paperclip, where former Nazi scientists were smuggled into America to advance U .S. technology and intelligence during the cold war.
Or the shocking story of Charles Manson and the CIA, revealing how a notorious cult leader might have been entangled in a web of covert operations.
Trust me when I tell you the stories are real and the secrets are shocking.
Be sure to follow Redacted Declassified Mysteries with Luke LaManna on the Wondery app or wherever else you get your podcasts.
You can listen early and adfree right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Spotify or Apple podcasts.
So in retrospect it obviously seems unbelievable that anybody would have looked at a 25 year old man, specifically this 25 year old man, and believed him to be 16 year old Nicholas.
Like, I was telling you I was doing this case and you looked at the pictures and you were like, how the fuck did I think that?
I was like, yeah, but he had gone out of his way to make himself appear younger.
And when it came to manipulating people, he was a master manipulator.
Still, the difference between the two people is immediately apparent.
Bourdine himself said in a 2011 interview, I mean, who wouldn't see it?
He himself was like, yeah, that's fucking crazy.
Yeah, like I saw the pictures, I was like, um, I don't know about that.
Yeah. I don't know about that.
One of these things is not like the other.
So the revelation that Nicholas was actually Frederick Bourdain was a shock to many of the people who had, you know, closely followed this story or who were involved in this story.
But it also raised several new questions.
Chief among them, who the fuck was this guy and why did he want to impersonate an American teenager?
Given that his history is almost entirely self -reported and the fact that he is a consummate liar and con artist, it's pretty difficult to know how much of his personal history is true.
But throughout the last decade or so, it does seem like he has this kind of remarkable willingness to be honest about his life and his crimes, so it's possible that he told the truth with regard to his history and his motives for this whole thing.
Yeah so Frederick Pierre Bourdin was born June 13th 1974 to a single mother Guylaine Bourdin in Nanterre, France.
Why can't I say France?
France. Why did I say it like that?
France. In France. Anyway at the time of his birth his mother was very young and his father was an older man from Algeria and he was already married at the time so Guylaine never told him about her interested in being a mother, Frederick ended up being raised by his grandfather, who he claimed was an abusive racist who treated him very badly because he was mixed race.
Frederick said, before I was born, I already had the wrong identity.
I was already prepared not to know who I really was, which is really sad.
In a 2008 interview Guilaine recalled that her son was like any other child, totally normal in his early years.
But she said she didn't have much experience with him when he was young.
Okay, yeah. Just before he turned three, he was removed from the home and placed with her parents because of her lifestyle.
At the time she was a heavy drinker.
She usually didn't have a job.
She was in no way fit to be a mother.
And besides all that, according to one relative, she really didn't want anything to do with that child.
That's sad. It is really sad.
That's really sad. It doesn't give you a right to traumatize people later in life, but no, it's very sad.
You feel sad for the child.
When he did see her, Fredrick remembered his mother being very dramatic, constantly needing attention so relatable.
While most people would have been happy to see their children and you know make their children the center of attention.
Ghislaine seemed kind of frustrated when the focus wasn't on her and when like Frederick was getting attention.
So she would feign illness when he was around and especially when they were alone together and make him run and get help.
He said to me to see me frightened gave her pleasure.
That's fuck up. So she's like fucked.
Yeah that's really fucked up.
If this is true, because again this is - I was gonna say because remember he's a con man.
Right. Caught between his grandfather's abusive, you know, abuse, and his mother's disinterest and, you know, whatever was going on there.
Frederic started creating fantasies in his head about who his real father might be.
And when he entered school, he started telling stories about his father.
He told his classmates that his dad was a British secret agent among other lies.
But no matter how outrageous the stories about his home life were, his peers more often than not seemed to believe him.
A former teacher of his said he had this way of making you connect with him.
And they described Frederick as a quote precocious and captivating child who had an extraordinary imagination and visual sense, drawing wild, beautiful comic strips.
So he, like, there was a lot going on in his mind for sure.
At the same time that his creative side was emerging at school like cool, cool, cool, teachers started noticing other more troubling aspects of his personality, not cool, not cool, not cool.
He was rebellious, he acted out a lot and he showed what teachers described as signs of mental distress.
So something was going on.
At one point, he told his grandparents that he had, this is awful, had been molested by a neighbor, but it doesn't seem like they did anything to report that or have that investigated.
So after that, he became even more rebellious and even more defiant.
When he was 12, his grandparents weren't able to control him anymore and he was usually in trouble or acting out at school or stealing from neighbors.
So his behavior got him sent to a facility for troubled children, and that's a fact.
During his time in the children's home, he seemed to get even more creative with the stories that he was telling.
He got more dramatic, more detailed.
In 1990, when he turned 16, he was required to move to a different children's home for older kids, but after just a few days there, he ran away and hitchhiked to Paris, where he invented his first fake identity.
He said he was a lost British teenager named Jimmy Sale.
Later, he said, I dreamed they would send me to England where I always imagined life was more beautiful.
But the problem was he spoke almost no English, so the authorities in Paris didn't believe his story.
And eventually he confessed, gave them his real name and they promptly returned to him back to the home.
Oh, geez. Yeah. So lots of failures here.
Yeah. So his performance of Jimmy Sale lost British teen might not have been very convincing to win him a free trip to England.
but it did seem to work for like a little bit like he was almost convincing them.
In fact, if he had spoken English and been able to give some other details and, you know, explain away flaws in his story, he might have been able to pull it off.
He wasn't super far from pulling it off.
So it was then that he established a strategy of impersonation that he would now employ countless times over the next two decades.
By 1992, he had impersonated more than a dozen fictional children and just bounced around from one children's home to the other, just lying about his identity.
But now that he was 18, things were different.
They didn't send 18 year olds to children's homes, they sent them to prison, or just, like, kicked them out to live on the streets.
And, at the same time, he hadn't received any education or life lessons, anything that you need to live successfully as an adult, so he decided he just wouldn't live as an adult.
Instead, he impersonating children all over France, fleeing when he was found out only to restart his ruse somewhere else with a new fake identity.
By that time, he had accumulated a pretty significant record with the Interpol for lying to authorities, falsifying his identity, falsifying documents.
It was true that he had broken the law by creating so many fictional identities, but it also seemed to be one of the few things that he was actually really good at.
like, he got caught obviously because you can only put up things like that for so long but he was...
The way he would - He got away with it for a while.
He got away with it for a while and the way he would manipulate people like they did believe him.
He had this ability to make people believe him.
Which is really fucking scary.
Which also makes you question a lot of his background.
Yeah, it does. That you can't verify at least. That you can't - Yeah.
Well, he kind of said, having spent so many years in institutional care, he had a keen understanding of how to elicit sympathy from adults and how to exploit their guilt.
Absolutely. He knew which buttons to push in order to get what he wanted, while also making them overlook obvious inconsistencies in his story.
In the time that had passed since his teen years, his fantasies and his stories had gone from creative play to now criminality.
Yeah. But the motive always seemed to be the same, despite having become a straight up con artist and an impersonator, his identities weren't about money or anything like that, or like stealing from people.
He just said, for as long as I can remember, I wanted to be somebody else, someone who was acceptable.
Which is really fucking sad.
I know. That's the thing.
If it's like, that's really the case, then that's devastating.
He never got charged with like any theft or anything like that.
he was always just charged for being a con artist and falsifying documents to be a child.
And it's like you wanted to, like he's wanting all these things that he didn't get and these people treated him so badly but then he's going and destroying people's lives.
It's fucked up. And it's like, that's not gonna help.
It's not gonna help, I think he didn't learn.
Like, compassion, empathy, like, relating to things to one another, humanity.
And it's like, I think if he had seen a psychologist while he lived in those children's homes, he might have turned out to be a very different person.
Yeah, potentially. But like you were just saying, because he had the childhood he did being passed around people who just truly couldn't give a shit, he never felt wanted or loved anywhere.
But when he created stories about being a lost child or sometimes a mute traumatized teenager, he found the kind of sympathy and care that he always wanted.
Even being placed in a children's home, he said he felt more comfortable than he ever had been with his mother or his grandparents.
Wow that's really sad.
He said nobody ever gave a damn about me so to be put in a place where somebody really cared about me I was reborn.
Wow. Which is sad. That's real that's horrifying.
Yeah. But unfortunately no matter how good he was like we know the characters and identities he made for himself over the years only lasted so long before he was found out and had to move on.
In October of 1997 his latest scheme had earned him a stay at a child welfare home in Spain, where a gave him 24 hours to prove that he was a teenager or face criminal penalties.
He was going to go to prison.
So panicked that now he had overplayed his hand and can wind up in jail, he told the manager of the home that he was an American teenager who had been kidnapped and brought to Spain and all he wanted was to go back home.
He played the trauma card and convinced the manager to let him be the one to contact his family in private and he even got them to agree to letting him do it in the manager's office, like alone.
Which is wild. How does certain people just have this ability?
Because here's the thing like, it is insane but I know people who I think could pull this off.
100%, that's the thing.
There are certain people who just have this ability.
Yeah, con artists are scary like fucking people.
Because you hear like, there have been people in my life and I'm like, how the fuck did you get away with doing that?
I'm like, how do you not care about hurting somebody like that?
how do people just let you do it?
And how do people let you do it?
But they do. It's crazy.
So this happened the night before he was to be fingerprinted by the Spanish authorities, fingerprinted, the night before.
He sent the entire night placing calls to various police stations and cities across the U S every time he would claim that he was a Spanish police officer who had found a missing American boy, but he said the boy refused to speak to them.
So he was reaching out on the boy's behalf to find out whether or not this boy matched any of their missing children.
Wow. Which, imagine getting that call.
You'd be sus about that call.
Absolutely. So yeah, he did, like he struck out repeatedly that night, but then he got a hit at the Texas Center for missing and exploited children.
After providing - That's terrible.
What was basically a description of himself, the operator told him the description sounded a lot like that of Nicholas Barclay, a teenager from San Antonio, Texas who had gone missing three years earlier in 93.
So Bourdine asked the operator to fax a photo of Nicholas and he did or they did and when the image of the missing boy came through Frederick was like this is a long shot like I don't really even look like this kid.
But I'm going to try because it's my only hope.
Wow. He said he thought to himself in that moment he's been missing three or four years.
I can guarantee one thing there would be a change if there's a change there will be doubt if there's out then I have a chance." That is chilling.
It is. That is so chilling.
Because he did not give a shit about what that could do to this family.
He didn't even think about it.
He just said I can't go to prison so this is what I have to do.
I can't go to prison so I'm just going to ruin this family's life.
Yeah. Wow. So it was then that 25 year old con artist Frederick Bourdain transformed himself into 16 year old missing teenager Nicholas Barclay.
While the authorities started contacting the embassy and the family Frederick worked fast to make his appearance match that of Nicholas to the best of his ability he dyed his hair blonde he even had one of the other residents tattoo him with the initials that Nicholas had tattooed on his hand and his ankle yet even those alterations like with those alterations he got yeah he dyed his hair he got tattoos for this but even with those alterations he was sure that he would be found out immediately and sent to prison he just was like it's worth a try Wow.
Later, he said you can't prepare to play a role or be a person you don't know.
But when the first interview happened and the embassy official seemed satisfied with the story, it did seem possible, still highly unlikely, but possible that he could pull it off.
Then in the days that followed, he thought surely he'd be discovered as a fraud at any minute.
But every passing step, everyone seemed to believe his story with no hesitation.
The reality is that obviously like a lot of people don't want to question a story like No, of course not.
Especially one that he had told where he'd been traumatized and everything.
So it worked. So it just ...
All the cards fell into place.
And it was pretty much what he assumed.
People were easy to manipulate when you knew what buttons to push, and he did know what buttons to push, the trauma buttons.
Yeah. But his biggest challenge, he figured, came when Casey Gibson, Nicholas's real sister, arrived in Spain to pick him up.
Fredrick was convinced that after days of pretending he was going to be found out when Casey got there, but he said, Casey didn't appear the slightest bit suspicious.
So it seemed like he might actually get to leave Spain.
In fact, when it came to establishing his identity for the passport, something he definitely thought was gonna trip him up, it was Casey who prepared him for the test unknowingly.
Oh man, the night before Frederick was to meet with the judge at the embassy again, remember they spent hours going through family photos and telling stories.
Oh, you're right. So when the judge asked him to identify those people in the family photos, he had been given all the information he needed not even 24 hours earlier.
Yeah. Just by happenstance.
It all just kind of fell into place for him.
He didn't even have to do the work.
Yup. For years. Years at this point, he had passed himself off as dozens, dozens of fake teenagers with varying degrees of success.
But this was the first time he had taken the identity of an actual person and he was still convinced though that sooner or later someone was gonna realize he wasn't Nicholas.
It's obviously one thing to create a fake persona and like come up with your own backstory but it's quite another to adopt the identity of a person who had 13 years of experiences with a family yeah and like an American family you know that's that's pretty different yeah inspired by the hit wonder podcast against the odds comes the gripping guidebook how to survive against the odds tales and tips for animal attacks and natural disasters this might just be the most important book you'll ever read Go inside life or death situations where everyday people survived nature's most extreme scenarios and learn
how you can too. In these tales, you'll hear about the grit, will power and know how needed to endure ship wrecks, alligator attacks, earthquakes and more.
You'll learn from experts including top doctors about what happens to your body and mind in life threatening situations.
Plus, important tips on what to do, and equally important, what not to do when faced with the situation that is truly against the odds.
Go to www .survivalguidebook .com to get your copy of How to Survive Against the Odds today, or visit your favourite bookstore!
So when they arrived in San Antonio, he said the Dollar Hide family welcomed him with open arms, like Carrie.
it seemed they didn't notice the glaring differences between Frederick and missing Nicholas because they didn't want to know of course they didn't each new person he met seemed to adopt the position that since he had gone through this traumatic ordeal he would almost certainly have changed in some way and he said if anybody was suspicious they didn't let on Wow aside from one person who did not seem even remotely interested in entertaining the roof the roos when they knew Nicholas was gonna be coming home the family organized a party, and all the relatives and neighborhood friends came over to
the house to welcome him when he got there.
The only person who wasn't there was Nicholas's half -brother, Jason, the one he had called to remember, and Jason said like, no, I'm not waking up, mommy gotta walk home.
That's tough. Since Nicholas's disappearance, Jason blamed himself for everything.
And he was a heavy drug user for years.
Unfortunately, it made him slip a lot further into into his addiction.
a couple weeks after the party though Jason did finally come by the house to visit with the family and when he walked in he gave quote unquote Nicholas a hug but Frederick said he remained very standoffish for the entire visit and he seemed to be viewing his quote -unquote brother with a very wary look in fact despite spending hours with the family that day they only spoke one time as Jason was preparing to leave the house he looked at Frederick suspiciously said good luck and left. Good luck, good luck.
Holy shit. Chills you to your fucking core.
Frederick was probably like, yup, yup.
That man knows. The fact that this is not, it is a movie now, but the fact that this whole story is not just a movie originally is fucking crazy.
Like this is real? That it's real is insane.
Wow. Good luck. Holy shit.
So he'd been doing this for a lot of years obviously, So he knew when his lies were starting, like he could tell when people were realizing coming onto him when things were gonna fall apart.
His resemblance was slight at best. And again, he spoke with a very strong French accent.
So the lie should have been obvious from the start.
And he said that being the case within a few months of being in San Antonio, he started questioning, if the lie was so obvious, why would the family be so willing to accept him as their missing child?
So now he's starting to kind of be suspicious of this family.
Oh Lord. When Nicholas disappeared in 1994, the authorities assumed like we said in the beginning that maybe he had just run away from home.
Yeah. And Nicolas actually had been picked up by the police shortly before he disappeared for stealing a pair of tennis shoes and it was possible that the theft and like some other things that were going on at the time was going to result in him being placed in a juvenile facility.
Oh wow. Like he was supposed to go to juvie that summer.
Holy shit. Add that to the fact that unfortunately, Beverly Dollarhide also struggled with addiction.
and his brother Jason, like we know, was an addict at the time and also was frequently abusive to Nicholas.
Oh. Like they did not get along well with each other.
I feel really bad for Nicholas.
I do too he had a very sad life but all that gathered together it made sense to the San Antonio police that he would have run away at the time.
Yeah. But years later as more and more people started digging around in the family's history some people started to wonder if the family knew more than they were saying.
Oh wow. And that's maybe why they were so willing to just go along with the Roos.
Yes exactly. It was clear obviously that Jason immediately saw through Frederick but he seemed perfectly willing to let everybody else go on pretending which Frederick said struck him as very strange.
Well that was when you said he said good luck and left I'm like alright.
If you can tell that this is not your brother you're not worried for your family.
Why are you just letting this go?
That's exactly how Frederick felt.
Which, it's wild to be on Frederick's level right now.
I know, I hate it. Thought process wise.
But it just makes sense.
It's a question that you have to ask.
You can't just pretend that that's not weird. No, it is fucking weird. Later, Frederick said, it was clear that Jason knew what had happened to Nicholas, which is chilling.
And that's, according to Frederick, I'm not saying that he did.
yeah. At the same time PI Charlie Parker though also began to suspect that the family might have been involved in Nicholas's disappearance.
Charlie Packa. Charlie Packa?
Oh shit. In his research he learned that a few months after Nicholas's disappearance, and this is fact, it's not like a legend or anything, Jason called the police to report that he had seen his brother trying to break into the house one night but when he called out Nicholas ran away again and was never seen ever again.
Huh. Parker knew that while, sure, this could have been true.
It also very well could have been Jason attempting to make the authorities think that Nicholas was still alive, which was a kind of strange thing to do unless maybe he knew what had happened to Nicholas and maybe knew who was involved or was trying to keep the - Keep it going.
Getting back to Frederick though, once the positive ID had been made, he was arrested for lying to the FBI. It's kind of a big deal.
As he should be. Yeah, they will definitely always arrest you for that.
Yeah. um and he was also arrested for entering the us on a false passport among various other things upon being arrested though he told the local fbi and loc the the local police and the fbi that he was confident that nicholas's family had killed him and had welcomed him into the family as a way of further covering up their crime oh that's awful which is so fucked the accusation along with other facts of the arrest were enough to make the family give up insistence that this was Nicholas, and this whole thing finally came to an end.
Years later, Beverly herself admitted that after a few weeks of having Frederick in their home she did start to doubt whether or not he was Nicholas, but she kept that suspicion to herself.
She said one of the things that tipped her off was, quote, Nicholas was always was a warm child, always hugging her and kissing her, but she said this person in her house was cold and extremely guarded.
She had noticed it the first time that they hugged at the airport, and she never really, he never really seemed to get comfortable around her and vice -versa, but she said at the same time, she just wanted to believe so badly that it was her son that she went along with it.
Well, and also, it's like, if he's just been in part of a human trafficking ring.
He might not wanna be hugging.
Yeah, he might not wanna touch you.
Yeah. Like he might not wanna be touched at all.
Right. So it's like that would not shock me.
No. Like I would expect that to be honest. I'd be like, you probably don't want anyone touching you regardless of who they are or what their intention is.
Right. So that wouldn't like shock me.
Wouldn't shock me either.
And that wouldn't be like a weird thing to point out.
That like. Yeah. You know what I mean?
Like I feel like that would just be like par for the course with that kind of thing.
You would think so.
I think we also right now have a lot more information about like what happens to people and like what that all entails.
Who knows what she knew about that in that immediate moment, you know.
But still it's weird. I agree with you.
So while Frederick sat in a cell Nancy Fisher started now looking into the claim that the family was responsible for Nicholas's disappearance unfortunately, and you know not surprisingly the family was not cooperative with the investigation I'd be pretty pissed if yeah this happened to me.
But Beverly refused to help she said if Jason did something to Nicholas I didn't know about it and I can't imagine Jason ever doing that it's just not in his makeup.
Which like he was abusive to Nicholas so he's you know.
Again I'm not like I don't know what happened here.
Nobody's going to say anything happened.
To me that's just a strange way of wording that.
If I have children I'm not saying like if one of them killed the other one then I don't know about it.
Yeah. Like that's that's not going to be in my vocabulary.
That's not going to be even in the orbit of possibilities.
It's going to be of course that didn't happen.
There's no fucking way that would happen.
And again, I'm not saying that means that something happened It's just a weird way to word that.
Strange way to word that.
Completely agree. I just, I wouldn't have worded it like that.
I will say, you know, Hot Dog in a Trench Coat take it for what it is.
She took two polygraph exams and passed them.
But then they had her do a third and she failed every single question on the third one.
So that just goes to show you how to pass two with flying colors and the third one you failed with flying colors.
Every question. Yeah.
And also like if you already pass two, why are they making you take a third?
Because they know it's bullshit.
Like this is a waste of time, but Nancy Fisher said of the third exam, she practically blew the instruments off the table.
Damn. I was like, yikes.
Jason himself was even more uncooperative.
When Nancy Fisher sat down to interview him a few weeks later, she said he was hostile.
He refused to help in any way.
Shortly after that interview, he checked himself in a rehab for drugs, but he left halfway through before finishing the program and he died from an overdose a short time later which is very sad yeah the investigation into the family pretty much stalled because they couldn't find any the investigators couldn't find anything concrete leak at linking the family to his disappearance but you know there were suspicions still the Nancy Fisher said I do feel like the family knows the whereabouts of Nicholas Barclay I think Beverly and Jason knew at one time, what happened to Nicholas Barclay?" Now, that's
just the FBI speaking.
I'm not saying I know what happened.
That's just the FBI saying it.
Other investigators shared the belief they cited the history of violence in the home.
The evidence of the abuse documented before Nicholas went missing.
But unfortunately, to this day, he remains a missing person.
That's really sad. Really sad.
After a few weeks of arguing back and forth with the prosecutor, Fredrick Borden accepted a plea bargain, and in September of 1998, He pleaded guilty to perjury and obtaining and possessing false documents.
When asked why he had perpetrated this crime against a grieving family he told the judge he was merely seeking love which outraged the family and would outrage me.
That's great go find love somewhere else, not with my grieving family, like go fuck yourself.
The judge actually sentenced him in this case to six years in jail which is more than three times the recommended sentence for that charge, which is pretty crazy.
Yeah, it is. When you think about like all that goes into the scheme that...
Like it's pretty diabolical what he did.
But remember he took a plea.
So there were some charges that were dropped.
Of course the judge did everything he could.
After Frederick completed his sentence, he was obviously deported back to France where he got right back to his old ways impersonating fake teenagers.
It did nothing. No, literally did nothing.
He was continuing to impersonate people and he actually spent time in prison like multiple times.
Eventually he got out and met and married a woman named Isabelle who he met when he when she reached out after seeing him on TV discussing his history and what she described as his quest for love.
Ladies, we have to do better.
It's okay, we have to do better.
We really really have to do better.
Yeah we do. Okay. They are still married to this day and did have five children together.
According to Frederick's mother, when the family got the invite to the wedding, they didn't go because she said no one believed him.
I wonder why, like, that's bad.
If you're sending out a wedding invite and everybody believes that you're even getting married, like you've been lying for a while.
You're a pathological liar.
Sad. It's sad. As for his new role of a husband and father, those who know him best do not believe that Frederick has changed at all.
According to his mother, he is a quote liar and will never change.
His uncle Jean -Luc Drouart said, he agreed, saying, you can't just reinvent yourself as a father, you're not a dad for six days or six months, it's not a character, it's a reality.
And that's that. And that's it.
That's the that on that.
Holy shit. What a wild thing that played out here.
The real loser in all of this.
The person who lost is Nicholas, he's lost still.
And he's almost lost in the story.
He is. You know what I mean?
He absolutely is. No matter what, the story became something so different.
And it's like, when you really boil it down, you're like, what happened to that 13 year old boy that day?
And it didn't really...
It didn't seem like there was like a lot of investigation that happened.
That's the thing, I'm like, why are we not figuring out what happened to him?
And I think there wasn't a lot of investigation because they were like, oh, he ran away.
He had ran away before so.
And it's like okay, that doesn't mean that they.
And it's like yeah, he ran away and he obviously came back.
Yeah. You're telling me that kid just ran away and never came back, never popped up anywhere?
Yeah. Ever? Yeah. Like Nicholas Barclay just does not exist anymore?
I don't know what happened to him, obviously.
I don't think he ran away.
I don't either. I think somebody did something bad to him whether it was somebody who did it like, while he was walking home.
Yeah, could easily be a stranger.
You know, the FBI could be right to suspect the family, who knows, like, I don't know.
Again that's the FBI suspecting that something was closer to home here.
That's on the FBI, that's not on me.
That's not the FBI, I'm not, I'm definitely not the Federal Bureau of Investigations.
You know, I too am not Federal Bureau of Investigations.
Would you tell me if you were?
I would, the day I become the Federal Bureau of Investigations, I will absolutely update you, I'll shoot a text.
Really quick. Thank you so much right when it happens.
That's super great.
I'll throw it on my Instagram.
Perfect. I won't see it Yeah, you won't see it.
Yeah, but everybody listening.
Well, uh Yeah that I think this is a strange story.
Yeah an upsetting story and No one wins no in this story, which is like very sad something I forgot what you said earlier But like like you are you were saying he just gets lost in this story the others.
The other thing is He, maybe, wouldn't have gotten so lost in the story if Frederick hadn't done what he did.
He, absolutely, wouldn't have gotten lost. Cold cases get investigated all the time.
Yeah. Three years into that, they might've found something if they continued looking, but they thought he had come home.
And then when they realized it wasn't him, they had a whole other situation to deal with.
Yeah, but they were having to deal with, okay, is this him or not?
Right. And it's like, that's precious time they could've spent looking into this case.
And he's just gone.
Nicholas is just gone now.
And then by that point, the family's angry and upset.
And then some of them— Some of them are pushing back on investigations, and it's like, you've really lost the sauce here, and it's like, again, there's a 13 -year -old boy who went missing that just is— Gone in this whole thing, and it's just The Frederick Show.
Hopefully someday they can, you know, reopen up an investigation and figure out what happened.
We always say cold cases never cold.
No, they're not. a 13 year old should never go missing and not be found that's the thing that's fuck job come on it's like something it's just sad that I think in his 13 years of life he like he didn't get to be happy and it sounds like he didn't get a lot of a lot to be in to be a kid yeah you know yeah sad case it is a sad case you know Frederick's childhood is fucking sad too maybe maybe well he wasn't he was in those homes so that's true you know like that's facts so that's sad that you have to be put into homes for sure it's just a sad case all around but don't impersonate people okay don't
do that really unless it's for like you like impersonating like Kermit the Frog's voice yeah do voice impersonations those are fun yeah those are fun not like not like other not missing children yeah I don't have to tell you that yeah seek help yeah that should really go without saying alright well we hope we keep listening, and we hope you keep it weird!
But not so weird that you don't take our advice and not impersonate missing children.
Dicks. Yeah, just be cool.
Don't be all uncool.
Don't be all uncool.
Count us low end. Sniff If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad -free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.
Prime members can listen ad -free on Amazon Music.
Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery .com slash survey.
