Hey, weirdos. Before we unleash today's macabre mystery, we were wondering, have you ever heard of Wondery Plus?
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Find your push, find your power with Peloton at onepeloton .com hey weirdos I'm ash I'm Elena and this is morbid that was a rushed intro because we're having a fight we are and it's serious the pod might be no I'm just kidding it's serious so buckle in for the last episode.
Here's the... I don't...
okay so the fight is over.
The fight. The fight is a fight.
The brawl is over...
We're gonna come to blows soon.
Whether you can use the word aesthetic as an adjective.
And you can. I say no. The Oxford dictionary disagrees.
I don't give a fuck what the Oxford dictionary says.
I've never... You heard it here first. I don't...
that does not sound correct to me to say Like, wow, that's so aesthetic.
Like what? I don't know, I like it.
I don't get it. Because it can be an adjective, on the line.
It says, adjective concerned with beauty or the appreciation of beauty.
Yeah, I don't get that.
I think Mikey's on my side here.
Yeah, because he's old.
Mikey just reached for that, Mike.
He said, I'm sorry, wow.
They've been attacking me all day.
That's oh my God. She is rallying the morbid listeners.
Is this real? She's like, guys.
They've been attacking me all day.
They've been making Ash sad all day.
They have. I cried in the bathroom earlier.
That's dirty. That's dirty.
It's cause you know that everyone's gonna be like bitch four.
I know. It's true. Do it.
Guys don't come forth little ones.
That's irresponsible usage of your power, is what that is.
You know what. That's wielding power like a dictator.
You guys, this might be the last episode.
Oh my God. That's fake.
My dogs are like, I got the listeners but you get literal hellhounds.
Hell yeah, I do. I don't think, oh.
They're pissed. I don't think it's, I don't think that's fair.
where we're just angrily drinking water at each other.
Now that's a real thing.
But we're both just going, which is ridiculous because we're both just holding that I'm holding a Stanley and you're holding a fucking roommate.
And we're just going like snarling at each other across the microphone taking aggressive sips.
See, we're sisters.
It's fine. I'm not actually her.
I never cried in the bathroom.
I'm reading this off a script.
It's true she was not she was not say it again say it with more feeling now say it with aesthetic so fuck that no that actually doesn't make any sense but yeah what do you guys think um weigh in do you even know what we're fighting about do we make it can you use aesthetic as like or do i shouldn't say can you do you use aesthetic in that way as like this is a big i've seen people argue about this before like i didn't So I think it's a generational thing.
I think you're right.
I think since I told the Gen Z millennial line and I don't - Listen, Gen Z I love you, but I don't always love to head over that way.
I think I'm on that way with this one.
You are on that way.
I feel like that's definitely more of a Gen Z thing.
I think it is. I think they like reworked the word. I'll agree with you there.
Yeah. But - That word has been retooled I think.
Yeah, I think so too, but I like it.
And you know what? Here's where we come out.
you can like it thank you and i can raise your roommate raise your little brumate i'll raise my brumate i contact cling you have to drink too actually you really shouldn't cheers with water i think that's bad luck so maybe the show is ending oh so is it technically water you know it's crazy usually mine has my little armora in there but today it doesn't because I just wanted ice water, it's just wah wah.
I don't like wah wah.
I don't like that you're saying that.
I don't like that. I actually hate it so much. I don't really know why you don't mean it.
I just horrified myself.
Ew, ew. Oh man, we're taking a little bit of time off but you won't know so we're batch recording a lot of things right now.
So if we sound insane that's why.
So we're taking time off but like it's not gonna affect episodes?
like your episodes will come out at the same time.
So we have to record like a bunch of stuff in advance and that makes us coo -coo crazy.
And that makes us coo -coo crazy.
Right now I'm actually excited, question mark, to talk about this case.
I think this is a really fascinating case.
It's obvious. This is obviously if you're hearing, you know it's the Zodiac case.
This is like an obviously, obviously I just keep saying that over and over again.
This is a very devastating case.
But I think it's very interesting and it's wild to me that don't come at me in the comments because it still is unsolved that it's still unsolved.
Yeah. You can sit there and you can tell me that it's solved all you want.
Still technically unsolved.
It's not. It's not solved.
It's the same thing as the Jack the Ripper thing.
And no I feel that way.
I'm gonna become a zodiacist. The zodiacist. Also, oh sorry.
Go ahead. Go ahead.
Also, I didn't, I can't find the little, I wrote down on a card who sent me this but a listener and if you're listening you're fucking awesome and I'll make sure to figure out your name and you better be on her side of this petticoat I'm on my side no a listener sent me went to London oh and went to the Jack the Ripper like tour and all that and sent us like in the P .O box they sent me a pin that says Ripperologist on it from the like it's like the museum that's so cool and I put it on my leather jacket That I wear all the time.
She opened it and goes, I'm putting this on my leather jacket, because I'm so excited!
I love it. So you rule.
Thank you so much. That was such a cool gift. I loved it.
And I wear it now. I wear it all the time.
She was very genuinely excited to get that.
Because I was like, huh?
I'm officially a ripperologist. Yeah.
You have been. I feel like it's already beneficial.
So let's get into it.
So the zodiac killing started with the Lake Herman road murders where 17 year old David Faraday and his girlfriend, 16 year old Betty Lou Jensen were killed.
Betty Lou? I know. Betty Lou.
What an adorable name.
16 and 17 years old.
My god. Literal babies.
And they were your typical American teenagers in the fall of 1968.
David was one of Vallejo High School's star wrestlers, he was a popular student, he was an eagle scout, not a cub.
That year he had actually been awarded the Scouts God and Country Award, which is like a pretty high honor.
Whoa. Similarly, Betty was said to be a popular and responsible student at Hogan High School where she was in her junior year.
So young. Junior in high school.
Yeah. They were both active in after school activities.
They both participated a lot in community events.
Like they were just like very all American teenagers.
In fact it was one of those community events actually decorate, the decorating committee for a winter dance that was being put on by the city that brought the two of them together in mid -December.
And within a week of meeting they had fallen for each other hard and they started rearranging their schedules so they could spend more time together outside of school.
Just a young love. I love it.
Now Betty's parents had always forbidden her from dating, they really wanted her to focus on school instead but that December she did manage to convince them to let her go out with David and she and David made plans for Friday December 20th which was going to Betty's first ever date.
This was a big deal and it's literally less than a week before Christmas.
So when the day finally arrived, David picked Betty up from school and they spent a few hours together just kind of like hanging out before their official date that night.
But David dropped her off at home around 6 PM and then came back to pick her up a few hours later a little bit after 8 PM.
Betty invited him inside.
Of course, he had to go meet the parents and the four of them chatted briefly for about 20 minutes.
And then David and Betty left the house, they told Betty's parents that they were going to the Hogan High Christmas concert and then to a party at a friend's house and that they'd definitely be back in time to make Betty's 11pm curfew.
It turns out they didn't really have any plans of going to the school concert.
They actually went to visit one of Betty's friends and they left that friend's home around 9pm.
Then where they went from there is unknown but some speculated that maybe they visited another friend along the way or stopped at like a fast food restaurant.
But whatever the case, by 11 pm David's station wagon was seen parked at the entrance to Benica Pumping Station on Lake Herman Road, which was a very popular Lover's Lane area in Vallejo.
They parked right at the start of a shift change at the pumping station too.
So a lot of people remembered seeing the car and saw the two of them inside.
Like many, many witnesses.
Yeah. Now around 11, 20 PM, a local mom, Stella Borges was driving past the pumping station on her way to pick her setup from a local movie theater.
And when she rounded the corner by the entrance to the station, her headlights swept across the lover's lane where she and the other passengers in her car could clearly see two bodies lying on the ground outside of the station wagon.
Oh, Stella would later tell police it looked like David had fallen out of the open door.
Yeah, obviously very frightened by what she'd seen she sped past the scene in the direction of the nearby downtown Beneca where she flagged down the first police cruiser that she could find.
And after listening to her story, Captain Dan Pitta and his partner called in the report to the station, rushed to the scene and called for an ambulance on the way.
Okay. Now Captain Dan Pitta's arrival at the scene was followed very quickly by members at the Beneca and Vallejo police departments and also deputies from the Solano County Sheriff's department.
It was the latter department who did have jurisdiction over the entire area that night.
Betty was declared dead at the scene, but when paramedics checked on David, he was still breathing.
He was just barely conscious.
Weirdly, that happens a lot in this case.
It doesn't seem to be intentional.
It's just a strange thing that happens with a lot of these killings that's interesting yeah so David was rushed to Vallejo general hospital but unfortunately it was too late, he did end up being pronounced dead at the hospital at 1205 a .m. he had been shot once in the head just behind the left ear and betty had been shot five times in the back with one of the bullets piercing her heart.
Holy shit! Yeah this was intense.
A search and analysis of the crime scene really didn't yield much as far as clues and there were even fewer leads, unfortunately.
From what investigators could tell, the couple had been parked on that lover's lane when a second car arrived and pulled right up behind them, which is just so creepy to me.
Based on the locations where shell casings were discovered, they theorize that the driver of the second car fired into the station wagon, evidenced by the bullet hole in the back window of the car.
That gunshot obviously forced the couple out of the car where David was likely shot in the head while he was still on the ground Betty it seemed had tried to run away from the shooter but she only made it they estimate it about 20 feet when the with the gunman started firing from his position next to the station wagon with five of the six shots hitting Betty in the back Jesus once the killer believed he had executed the two teenagers he left the scene without even collecting the bullet casings just calmly left the scene.
Yeah, intense. Now the crime scene was frustrating and it was frustrating from the moment investigators arrived because it was December, the ground was practically frozen solid.
So that made it impossible to identify any kind of tire tracks from the second vehicle.
Deputy Sheriff Russell Butterbach told reporters, "'I just couldn't say how or what happened.
We haven't got that far in the investigation.' But there was really nobody anyone could think of as a potential suspect.
Because both victims seemed like, really the last people anybody would want dead.
Yeah, it's not like they had all these ties to crime or something, you know?
No, and again, they're 16 and 17 years old.
They're involved in their community.
Like, there's not even people really at school that don't like them.
Yeah, and they like hung out at like church events.
So days later, investigators had swept the crime scene several times at that point, but had made almost no progress in the case.
Lead investigator Ledley Lundblad said, we gathered all the physical evidence that was available at the scene, cartridge cases and other items, and these will be tested in the laboratory.
Meanwhile, investigators started interviewing, of course friends and family, hoping that one of them could shed light to who might have wanted David or Betty dead.
Unfortunately, while David and Betty's friends were able to provide a lot of information about their day to day lives, nobody had any information about who would have wanted to kill them.
And even though this had been Betty's first date.
In the absence of a clear suspect, detectives started wondering whether the killer was maybe a young man who had been rejected by Betty in the recent past. It's always a possibility.
Yeah, I mean, sure.
We hadn't really not like, they didn't really have anything to go on.
So you gotta start somewhere.
And honestly, that's the easiest route to go down.
Exactly, Investigator Lundblad said, we're looking into it, but at this stage, we're not overlooking any possibilities whatsoever.
so she was like, we're looking into it, but we're looking into everything.
Which again, you have to.
You can't discount any possibilities when you have nothing to go on.
You gotta start somewhere.
Honestly, at that point, you gotta pull shit out of the air.
Yeah, just start pulling strings.
No, when interviews with the victim's families turned up really no useful information, investigators had to start considering alternative theories like we were just saying, including the potential that the teenagers had quote, met their deaths Friday night at the hands of a murderous maniac who was not acquainted with either of his victims. Like the theory.
Yeah. And this theory was given a little more weight when sheriff's deputies received a call from a teenager, William Crow, who reported having a strange experience about an hour and a half before the murders occurred.
According to Crow, he'd been parked with a friend in the same area, in the same exact area where David and Betty were discovered.
and he noticed another car parked in a dark area just a short distance away.
He said the driver was watching them for sure, he said when I saw his when I saw its backup lights come on I gunned our car out of there.
Good for him. The driver followed Crow and his friend until they reached downtown Beneca where he turned off and dropped out of sight but Crow said as far as I was concerned that was the end of it until I read Saturday what happened in the same spot where we were.
Imagine, like knowing that you were in the same spot.
I was gonna say in like knowing that you somehow had an instinct that got you out of there like trust your gut.
No. Toward the end of December after exhausting the really small amount of leads that they had anyway, sheriff's investigators had grown more confident in the murderous maniac quote unquote theory.
Lundblad said, I think they were ordered out of the car at gunpoint.
and when they didn't come up quickly, the killer fired a warning shot through the rear side window of the vehicle.
The assailant then shot the boy.
And when he fell, the girl started running and was killed as she ran.
Which so they're pretty much thinking the same thing here.
Yeah, nothing of value had been taken from the vehicle.
So robbery was ruled out as a motive.
Nobody had been sexually assaulted.
So that was ruled out now too.
But the problem investigators faced was that there was virtually no way of connecting the killer to the victims and that made solving this case seem very unlikely.
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By the dawn of the new year the story had unfortunately slipped from the front pages of the local papers and into the back and by mid January it really stopped getting coverage altogether.
That's crazy. I know as the end of January approach those student groups from Vallejo and Hogan high schools established a reward fund and they went door to door around the community to collect donations hoping that the offer of a reward would elicit some kind of help from the community in jumpstarting the case which they knew was getting colder and colder yeah and they did they they got a good reward fund up but nobody ever attempted to collect it Well when you look at it now and you're like knowing that we are now in 2025 and we don't know who this person is like that's crazy.
It's insane. Think about it back then.
They probably never in their wildest dreams could fathom that in 2025 we still would not possibly know who this person is.
Probably couldn't even fathom the year 2025.
Never mind the fact that this case would make it this far without getting any kind of...
So crazy. You know, obviously it's had moments where it's come back up and people have found out new things of course, but you know, it's really sad.
So a few months later on March 30th though the story did pop up again in the Valejo Times Herald only to remind readers though of how little progress had been made.
Lesley Lundblad told reporters, "'There isn't a day that goes by that I don't work on it.
I've got a case file about four inches thick, all the information I've been able to turn up and I have a fairly sizeable evidence locker." But even with all that information she did acknowledge that investigators were, quote, only a bit nearer to the solution of the crime than they were when they first arrived on the scene that cold Friday night in December.
Yeah, really sad. By that time, everybody had pretty much settled in to the belief that David and Betty's killer was completely unknown to both of them.
And the crime was, as far as they knew, motiveless.
Betty's father, Vern Jensen, said, I don't feel vindictive, but I am apprehensive.
I feel some nut is on the loose.
Which, I mean, yeah.
You won't feel that way.
David's mother Jean was similarly unnerved by the idea that her son had been killed by a deranged stranger who was still on the loose and all, like might kill again.
I think that would be the scariest part of all.
For sure. She said, and he'll find it easier next time.
We know he's a nut, but what kind of nut.
Which, I mean, and we're still asking that.
Yeah. Oh truly. They weren't wrong.
And soon they were gonna find out just what kind of person killed their children.
So true. scary oh I just felt so bad imagine that being she goes out on her first date her first date ever and her parents were like reluctant to even let her go that must be that I can't awful feeling my brain just nobody wrap around that nobody should have to fit no way so by the summer of 1969 David and Betty's murders had faded completely from the newspapers and life in Vallejo is starting to get back to normal then in early July that feeling of terror and helplessness returned when two more young people were gunned down by an unidentified killer.
22 year old Darlene Farrin worked at a local diner, and she was well liked by everybody who knew her.
It seemed to everybody that she and her husband Dean had a pretty good life.
They were living together, raising their infant daughter in a pretty nice neighborhood.
Even though she was married, Darlene was known to date other men on occasion.
And that summer She had been seeing 19 year old Mike.
I think it's Michelle, who she'd met at the diner.
Okay. So on the afternoon of July 4th, Mike and Darlene made plans to see each other later that evening.
First Darlene was going to go to a fourth of July party with her sister and then she'd go see Mike after.
Okay. It was around 1130 PM when she finally arrived to pick Mike up.
So they decided to go out to a late dinner together.
A short time later Darlene pulled off the road into the parking lot of blue Rock Springs, which is just a local park.
And turned the engine off.
A few minutes earlier, she actually had mentioned to Mike that there was something she wanted to talk to him about.
But before she could actually get out what she wanted to say their conversation was interrupted because a carload of teenagers pulled into law and we're just like throwing firecrackers everywhere.
Teenagers. Being teenagers.
But so they couldn't talk really cause every time she went to say something there would be a loud blast. It was interrupted.
So they resumed their conversation a few minutes later after the group of teenagers had left but then they were interrupted again, this time by another car that had pulled into the lot.
By this time the entire parking lot was empty but this driver, who was alone in his car, pulled about eight feet behind Darlene's car, turned off his headlights and sat motionless in his car for a minute or started his car again and drove out of a lot.
Creepy. I would hate that.
Creepy. Yeah. Obviously that was a strange situation.
So Mike asked Darlene if she knew the driver of that vehicle.
It sounds like she was getting pretty annoyed at this point cause she was clearly trying to have like an important discussion and she kept getting interrupted.
So she just said, oh, nevermind.
And Mike didn't know what to make of Darlene's confusing response, But he knew that she seemed irritated or overwhelmed so he decided not to push for an explanation With the distraction behind them they got to talking again, but it wasn't long before again.
They were interrupted About five minutes after leaving the parking lot that second car the one who had pulled behind them returned This time parking a little bit farther away from Darlene's car about 10 feet behind on the passenger side with the headlights still on this time the driver got out of the vehicle and walked toward the passenger side of Darlene's car It was especially dark in the lot that night and Mike couldn't really make out any details of the driver of the other car.
Only that he appeared to be carrying a large flashlight, like a police officer's flashlight.
So he figured they were getting hassled by the police for some reason.
Maybe they couldn't park there or something.
Yeah, that would be the first thing I would think.
So he reached into his pocket for his wallet and was looking for his driver's license, but when the man reached Mike's window and shined the light in, he didn't ask for ID.
he just started firing into the car with a semi -automatic handgun, shooting in the back, neck, and mouth.
Everybody knows this case, but I fear that, and I can count myself among these people, I fear that we don't truly, a lot of people don't truly recognize how brutal and intense it is, because I think it's like, it gets painted a lot of times with a very broad brush of a Lovers' lane killer.
You know what I mean?
People know the Cyphers and the more...
The Cyphers and all that, which, very interesting.
Yeah, the more salacious parts of the story.
I'm not taking away that that's interesting.
I'm saying, me personally, this is one case I never looked super far into.
Yeah. And hearing details like this, that it was a high -powered weapon being just shot into a car.
At point blank range, pretty much. point -blank range, like, I didn't fully appreciate how gnarly this is.
No, neither did I. Like, that is horrifying.
Reading about this, your jaw just, like...
Yeah. Is open the entire time.
Yeah, I'm shook. Just wait.
So, convinced that Mike was dead, the shooter turned the gun toward Darlene who sat in the driver's seat, obviously paralyzed with fear at this point.
Yeah. And she was shot several times, hitting her in the arm, shoulder, chest, and back.
As the killer was walking back to his vehicle, Mike yelled out in pain because he's still alive, causing the shooter to return to the vehicle where he shot each of them two more times.
Holy shit. Now convinced that he killed the couple in the car, the man returned to his vehicle and sped out of the parking lot.
But as the shooter pulled out of the lot, Mike, still alive, managed to get the passenger door open and fell onto the pavement.
He had been shot multiple times at this point, but somehow he was still able to get a good look at this person's car and described it later as a similar to Darlene's Brown Corvair, although perhaps a lighter shade of brown.
And he also was able to get a look at the license plate.
He didn't get numbers, but he recognized it as an older style that was no longer used by the state.
Holy shit. To have the wherewithal after being shot that many times at that close range is unthinkable.
It really is. That's miraculous.
Yeah, I can't believe it's happened twice that somebody was at least left surviving for any period of time.
And it happens again.
That's weird. It is weird. It's just weird. Again it's not intentional.
No, you can tell it's not.
He's leaving these scenes very much thinking that he's killed.
I mean, he's done a lot to make sure he has killed everybody.
So it's even more miraculous than people are.
Even like when Mike yelled out, he went back to the scene.
Yeah, to make sure.
And not only shot Mike again, but shot Darlene again as well.
So Mike laid there on the ground for about 10 minutes until he was finally discovered by three teenagers who luckily pulled into the law.
Yeah. Wow. They checked on - We're following up like fucking teenagers with like thank goodness for these teenagers.
We're following up with teenagers.
Let's go. Yes, teenagers.
So he was bleeding badly, so they left to get him help.
And not long after, Vallejo police arrived in the parking lot, where they found Mike still lying on the ground beside the car.
He was in bad shape, but he still took the time to provide officers with the details of everything that had happened, including his basic description of the shooter's car.
Wow. That's unbelievable.
It is. Darlene, on the other hand, was barely breathing and couldn't speak.
Both victims were rushed to the hospital where Mike was immediately rushed into emergency surgery and he was placed in the ICU.
But unfortunately Darlene died before they reached the hospital.
So, it's awful and she's a young mom.
She was a 22 -year -old yeah.
At 1240 a .m. as investigators were still processing the scene at Blue Rock Springs, a startling call came in to the Vallejo Police Department.
The caller said, I want to report a double murder.
if you will go one mile east on Columbus Parkway to the public park, you will find the kids in a brown car.
They were shot with a nine millimeter lugger.
I also killed those kids last year.
Good -bye. Wow. Can you imagine being on the other end of that motherfuckin' phone call?
That is so cold. Good -bye.
Good -bye. And they said - I also killed those kids.
Bye. They said that it was cold, chilling, freaky.
I hate that. So investigators quickly determined that the call had been placed from a gas station pay phone a little less than a mile from the crime scene, which had closed several hours earlier.
And of course, by the time they arrived, the caller had gone, but what was clear from the caller's tone was that it wasn't a confession made out of guilt or some sense of moral responsibility, anything like that.
It was very much intended to mock investigators.
Yeah, like absolutely.
I did it again, try to catch me.
Like the attack on David Faraday and Betty Jensen, the Blue Rock Springs crime scene didn't turn not much as far as clues or leads.
Despite having had the flashlight shine in his face when the killer approached, Mike did feel confident that he would be able to identify the shooter if he saw him again, which is crazy.
That's like, that's him.
Like he's honestly shocking.
He is. As a human being, like, I can't believe that.
Yeah, he described the man as young, short and heavy set and driving a brown car.
Wow. At the time, this was the best description that he could provide.
And even that was a struggle because one of the slugs had entered his neck which injured his tongue and fractured his jaw.
Oh my God. So he's providing all of this information, you have to remember, while dealing with those kind of injuries.
Oh my God. I don't know how you concentrate on anything but the horrific pain that you're probably in.
Yeah. And the trauma.
Yeah. Of what you've gone through.
Absolutely. It's crazy.
Another important witness was George Bryant, who was the son of a local golf course owner about 800 feet away from the parking lot when the two were shot.
According to George, he had been looking out his bedroom window a little after 1130 PM that night, and he couldn't see into the parking lot, but he could hear everything very well.
He told investigators he initially heard a group of young people laughing, followed by the sound of firecrackers, that group of teenagers.
And around midnight George said he heard what he thought was the sound of a single gunshot, a short pause, another series of shots fired in rapid succession.
I can't imagine hearing that." And he said once the shots finally stopped, he heard the sound of a car start and pull out of the parking lot.
In a press conference the next day, representatives of the Vallejo Police Department didn't, and really couldn't do much, to calm the public's fears over now four shootings having occurred in the span of about seven months.
One officer put it really simply saying, we've got a crazy man on the loose, which...
I get why he said it.
They hadn't really identified any specific motive for the shootings, but it was clear that the suspect had set out intending to kill people.
Of the semi -automatic hand weapon used in the killings, the officer said, it's an offensive weapon made to kill people.
It packs more power than a .45.
When asked why the shooter would have left the scene without being certain that the two were dead, the officer replied, I think he left because he emptied his gun.
Wow. Which turns out – That's chilling.
That hunch was a good one.
Technicians at the scene ended up finding the exact number of cases you would find in a loaded 9mm pistol, leading investigators to theorize that, yes, the killer had only stopped because he hadn't brought additional ammunition.
That is terrifying – Yeah.
That he would have kept going.
Probably. And that he just totally unloaded his gun.
Also, imagine being Mike and hearing that.
That you only are here because of your own, like, you know.
Insane, like. Like strength.
Strength, yeah. Yeah, and like, but you know, perseverance.
In a miracle. Also some wild thing that like, there was nothing left. But if there was.
He would have. He would have kept going.
He would have kept going.
I don't know what that feeling would be, but it must be wild.
Mm hmm. Under the circumstances, Darlene's husband, Dean, was the most logical suspect in this case, but he had an alibi.
At the time of the shootings, he was working a shift at the Tennessee street restaurant and his presence was verified by every single one of his coworkers.
Otherwise, there was no other suspects or really any evidence that would have pointed investigators in the direction of the killer.
And given the phone call made shortly after the shooting, detectives had pretty good reason to suspect that the shooter in this case was the same person who killed David and Betty the previous December this wasn't in a one -off you know yeah they want like maybe this is a different situation no so those suspicions were strengthened a few weeks later when the San Francisco area newspapers all received similar letters from somebody claiming to be the killer the first letter sent to the San Francisco Chronicle was written in crude block printing and read Dear editor this is the murder of the two teenagers
last Christmas at Lake Herman plus the girl on the 4th of July near the golf course and Vallejo to prove I killed them I I shall state some facts which, only I plus the police know.
Christmas. One brand name of ammo, Super Ex. Two 10 shots were fired.
Three, the boy was on his back, with his feet to the car.
Four, the girl was on her right.
Side, feet to the west. Fourth, July.
One girl was wearing patterned slack.
Two, the boy was also shot in the knee.
Three, brand name of ammo was Western.
Over. Indicating to them to flip the sheet of paper over.
Here is part of a cipher.
The other two parts of this cipher are being mailed to the editors of the Valejo times plus s f examiner.
And I kind of tried to pause where he breaks.
Yeah. Cause it's written very interestingly, like it's a new line when you don't necessarily need a new line.
It's interesting. Yeah.
The it's very unsettling.
It's very unsettling.
There's a lot to be made of the way that the Zodiac communicates.
Yeah. In time, the letters to the news outlets would become a hallmark like we know of the zodiac killer and the press would eventually dub him the zodiac killer.
But when they got these initial letters, everybody was incredibly confused and really they could have just been easily dismissed as the confession of a mentally ill person who maybe hadn't committed these crimes.
Yeah. I mean that happens all the time.
Yeah. So nobody was taking them too, too seriously at first, but very detailed.
Very detailed. And we'll get there.
For one thing, though, the grammar and punctuation were noticeably inconsistent, with some statements ending in a period and others having no punctuation at all.
Okay. And each letter had a solid number of misspelled words.
Like, for example, he spells Christmas, c -h -r -i -s -t -m -a -s -s, that kind of thing.
That's really the only one I can point to in that letter.
He spelled patterned wrong, I think.
There's a few things that are spelled wrong.
but people got the feeling that maybe these mistakes were also intentional, like he's trying to look a little off, especially the added S in Christmas.
It almost feels like it's like, yeah, I'll just put this.
Yeah, who knows? There's sweaters, there's candles.
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Now, accompanying each letter was a cypher.
Each of the three cyphers were hand drawn and were unique, but they all went together.
So in order to solve one, you needed access to all three, but they were all sent to separate newspapers.
There was also an ominous warning in each letter that read pretty much as an ultimatum to the editors of the papers, published the ciphers by the next afternoon, or the killer threatened to quote, go on a killing rampage.
And he said he would kill a dozen or more people.
As indicated in the letters, the killer definitely, like you caught on to, did know information about the murders that hadn't been disclosed by investigators, including the brand of ammunition used in the shootings.
So detectives did have every reason to believe that the letters were genuine.
But still, only the Chronicle complied with the killer's demand and published the cipher the next day.
The examiner ran a story the day after receiving the letter but didn't publish the cipher itself, and The Times -Herald published their cipher a few days later and didn't put it on the front page like the killer wanted.
Uh -oh. Despite not fully complying with his demands, there luckily was no mass shooting.
Yeah. Surprising. It is.
So in hopes of drawing the killer out of hiding or at least maybe getting some additional information, Vallejo police chief, Jack Stiltz told reporters, he was not convinced the letter was written by the actual killer.
If it was, he would like the letter to supply more facts to prove it.
Wow. Just nagging him.
Yeah. In response, the San Francisco Examiner received a second letter.
on August 4th that read, dear editor, this is the Zodiac speaking.
I answer to your asking for more details about the good times I have had in Vallejo.
I shall be very happy to supply even more material.
By the way, are the police having a good time with the Code?
If not, tell them to cheer up.
When they do crack it, they will have me.
On the 4th of July, I did not open the car door, the window was rolled down already.
And he wrote, already, like are you all ready?
Instead of, it already happened.
yeah like all A -L -L.
Yeah. The boy was originally sitting in the front seat when I began firing when I fired the first shot at his head he leaped backwards at the same time thus spoiling my aim.
He ended up on a on the back seat then the floor thrashing about violently with his legs.
That's how I shot him in the knee.
I did not leave the scene, spelled C -E -N -E, of the killing with squealing tires plus racing engine as described in the Vallejo paper.
I drove away slowly so as not to draw any attention to my car.
And that was it. That's like so, like, I wasn't freaked out in like skidding away.
I was actually going slow, but thanks though.
Like that's very, like, somebody who's very insecure with their own situation and is trying to be like, um, I'm actually a tough guy and I wasn't scared at all.
It definitely comes off as a very insecure person.
You're not a tough guy.
And like an attention grabber.
Somebody who's like, I want you to know all the facts and like, I want you to know how I set out to do this.
Like I am fixing my, this story.
It's, it's very BTK ish to me where it's like, where he was in, which tells you exactly what kind of person this person is or was because it's like, he has to be like, well, wait a minute, you have it wrong.
This is why this is what happened.
And this is how I did it.
Like you can't say these things.
And it's like, there's a, there's a story here and it's like, baby, you killed people.
So I think that's really the most important thing here.
Nobody's worried about how you, if you like skidded out of the place or if you slowly drove, like it, that really makes no difference.
Not the biggest part of this.
That one is just like, I like you said, like I wasn't scared.
Yeah, it's very much like personal thing.
I was being brave. I drove out slowly.
After I murdered two teenagers, but okay.
To people who are unarmed.
Yeah. Yeah. Well I'm like, yeah.
Tough guy now. The letter had no signature, just a simple symbol in the shape of a crosshairs which will become very familiar, yep.
The publication of the letter so soon after the killings did emphasize to the public that there definitely was something to fear in their community, yeah.
In an interview with the examiner, Police Chief Jack Stiltz encouraged all residents to quote stay out of lonely areas, a warning reiterated by Captain Wade Byrd who said we could be looking for a very dangerous man, yeah.
I can't imagine being a teenager or like we'll come to find out being anybody at this point in time.
Yeah just it must have been so scary.
Yeah it's very much like like the David Berkowitz kind of situation where it's like you just don't know when they're gonna hit next you know?
It's so true. Really scary.
And whenever I do read about this case I always think of that movie the town that dreaded sundown.
Oh my god yes. so that is a scary movie.
That's a terrifying movie.
And it's really so similar to the facts of this case.
Like obviously it's, you know, dramatized, but dramaticized.
Dramaticized. Dramaticized.
Dramaticized. Dramatized, dramatized.
We don't know. Mikey, write in.
Is the word dramatized or dramatized?
Dramatized. Yeah. Doesn't dramatized also sound right though?
I don't think it is but it sounds right.
I don't think it is but I see why.
Yeah. Yeah. Traumatized.
So, because that one's the Texarkana Moonlight Murders of 1946.
Which I think you covered on a live show once.
Yeah, you're right actually.
Like our first, one of our first live shows.
Very early live show.
I think. But yeah, it's a similar.
It's got similar vibe to it?
Yeah. Where it's one of those things to where it's like, they're telling people not to like, to be careful.
don't go to lovers lanes.
Yeah. And they just like, you don't know when they're going to hit.
Yeah. It's really scary.
Yeah. It's got, Oh, I hate that so much. It's got all the makings of this.
Yeah. So while spokespeople for law enforcement did their very best to keep the public calm, investigators were working behind the scenes to crack the cipher that had been received by the three news outlets.
Stilton listed the help of the cryptographic unit of the U S Navy radio station on nearby Skag's Island.
They were a group who had a of experience with encrypted messages and very complex ciphers.
But before the Navy had made any progress on the cipher, investigators received a call from a couple in Salinas who had seen the puzzle in the paper and managed to crack the code themselves.
Oh, I remember this part of it.
That's like that blew my mind.
That's awesome. In the few days since the cipher was published, high school teacher Donald Hardin and his wife Betty spent several hours just focused on the code before they were able decipher the symbol spelling kill.
From there, it was just a matter of identifying the remaining symbols, and after about 20 hours, they decoded the entire message.
There were some hiccups of course.
Donald told a reporter, as you can tell his spelling is rather poor, and in some places he had made errors in the use of his own cipher, which he did I love how like they are roasting this person they're just like as you can see he's a fucking idiot he's an idiot you gotta it's like when we call people what letters and chah.
So the message with errors intact read, this is so fucked, and it's all in capital letters, which freaks me the fuck out.
I like killing people because it is so much fun.
It is more fun than killing wild game in the forest because man is the most, it's hunger to.
So people don't know if it was meant to say hungry or dangerous, maybe.
Nobody really knows.
But the most hunger to animals of all.
To kill something gives me the most thrilling experience.
It is even better than getting your rocks off with a girl.
I feel like you haven't, the best part of it, I A -thy, so like I -A -T -H -A -E, but he was very clearly trying to write it.
The best part of it is that.
When I die, I will be reborn in paradise spelled P -A -R -A -D -I -C -E and all the, I have killed will become my slaves.
I will not give you my name because you will trse, try to S -L -O -I, slow down, or stop my collecting of slaves for my afterlife and then it was signed E -B -O riot M -F hipty." What the fuck?
Yeah. What the fuck?
Yeah. That is - Unhinged.
Unhinged for sure. Unhinged.
as f**k. Neither Donald or his wife were able to decipher those last four words that I very clearly struggled through, but they suspected that it was a signature of some kind.
When you say it out loud, it sounds like some kind of Latin.
So I don't know if he's like guising it in his own way as Latin.
I'm not sure. Um, maybe we'll get, we'll get there someday.
Who knows. We'll get there someday.
So the next day, a second decryption arrived in the mail, this time from an anonymous source.
Despite some discrepancies in the two solutions they were more or less the same.
Several months later when he was asked for comments on what he thought the cipher revealed about the killer, Donald Harden said, he's bright enough, but not necessarily of high intellect.
Interesting. Because I mean, there's got to be some level of intelligence to create a cipher.
Yeah, absolutely, it's not an easy thing to do, especially one that will stump as many people as this one did.
Yup, but it is strange that Like that's why it feels like these spelling mistakes and shit are like.
I think they're intentional, absolutely.
But Hardin suspected the killer actually had no experience with cryptography and that he had either made up the cipher on his own, which is impressive, or had pulled it from some obscure detective story that he read somewhere.
He said, there's no continuity, no fidelity in his code.
There are no special characters in these cryptograms. They are all just something he dreamed up.
Interesting. Yeah. even scarier.
Yup. So the next eight weeks passed pretty quietly in and around Vallejo in San Francisco.
Not even the publication of the decrypted message prompted another letter from the killer.
He was probably pissed.
Yeah. Then in late September, the silence was broken when yet another young couple was attacked.
This time at Lake Berenice, about an hour outside of Vallejo.
22 year old Cecilia Shepherd and 20 year old Brian Hartnell, two students at Pacific Union College had met in 1968, quickly fallen in love and started spending all their free time together.
By the fall of 1969, though, their relationship had cooled off a bit, and eventually they drifted apart with their break -up becoming final when Cecilia decided to transfer to UCLA, Riverside.
The break -up was pretty amicable but Cecilia ran into a problem.
She still had some things in her dorm up at Pacific Union, so in the afternoon of September 27th she decided to make the trip to campus to grab the last of her things.
After grabbing what she needed from her dorm she stopped in the cafeteria for some lunch and wouldn't you know it she ran into Brian.
They ate together, they caught up, but when they finished lunch they didn't want to go their separate ways just yet.
So the two of them, along with a friend Judy, decided to go to a rummage sale in nearby Saint Helena.
After leaving the rummage sale around two that day Brian and Cecilia dropped Judy back at campus but still weren't done hanging out yet and decided to visit Lake Baronessa I know a location that Brian had really always loved so after parking the car they started walking the short distance to the shoreline where Brian laid on a blanket on the grass for the two of them and they just sat there chatting now a short time passed when Brian started hearing something large moving around in the bushes about 15 or 20 feet behind them he was laying on his back and wasn't wearing his glasses so he knew he
wasn't gonna be able to see what was happening and he asked Cecilia who was laying on her stomach facing him he said what was making the noise she looked off in the distance and she saw a man standing at the tree line and then saw him disappear oh I hate that yeah it sounds like something out of a movie it really does Brian just chuckled to himself and was like he's probably went into the woods to relieve himself and was like embarrassed yeah that you saw him but Cecilia was like no I feel like he was watching us and she couldn't shake that feeling.
Yeah, that would freak me the fuck out.
Literally moments, moments after that man disappeared behind the tree, he re -appeared, this time much closer to the couple than either of them had expected.
And Cecilia then shouted, oh my God, he's got a gun.
Holy shit, and the worst part is, that you know they have seen all the stories.
Yeah, I know. Oh, they know like you they've seen the like you think about seeing all these stories, hearing the horrible things, feeling the fear.
Yeah. And then you find yourself face to face with this person.
And again, they're not like this is the middle of the day.
They're not doing something risk.
And they're at a park.
They're not a quote unquote lonely place.
That's the thing. Like you're not even like you've watched that.
You've seen the articles, you've watched everything right.
And you've thought that fear and you've sat there and said, oh my God, I like, Like what if that was me kinda thing?
They probably talked about it.
All the things that we do sit here and be like, oh my God, I can't imagine, blah, blah, blah.
That'd be so scary.
And then you find yourself in that position in the middle of it.
Yup. Like it just like that stuff always freaks me out.
It's so scary. After the attack, Brian would describe for the police the incredibly surreal and confusing moments leading up to the attack.
In the time between ducking behind the tree and reappearing in front of them, the man donned what appeared to be a heavy canvas executioner's hood that covered his entire head and came all the way down to his stomach. That's so fucking scary!
Oh, just wait. It gets crazier.
The top of the hood seemed to be flat with four corners like a paper bag.
It clearly looked like it had been made by somebody who didn't really know how to sew.
Embroidered on the front chest area was a concentric cross and circle about three inches in diameter that looked like cross hairs.
And possibly the strangest part of the attire.
The eye holes of the hood were covered with what Brian thought were clip on sunglasses.
What the fuck? I don't know why, and tell me if I'm crazy, but for some reason the scariest part of that is the sunglasses.
That's so weird. Like it's just so unsettling.
I mean the scariest part is he's wearing executioner's hood.
Because why? Clip -on sunglasses.
So you can't see his eyes.
But like, why that?
You could have chosen any other way to do that.
Like you could have put like a darker fabric that you could like still gauze that you could see through and that would have been less like that for some reason that is just beyond.
And it just it feels unhinged.
100%. Like it feels like a scary ass move to make.
As Cecilia had said the man did have a gun in his hand but he didn't appear to be advancing on them with menacing energy per se.
The man told Cecilia and Brian that he was an escaped convict from Deer Lodge prison in Montana and that he was on his way fleeing to Mexico.
He said he had no intention of hurting them.
He just wanted their money and the keys to Brian's car so that he could leave the country.
So they were like, okay, cool man.
Obviously sensing that they're in danger here though.
So, Brian spoke calmly to the man wearing the hood and tried to engage him in conversation.
He even offered to write him a check.
He was like, I only have 75 cents on me, but I'll write you a check.
Yeah. The man just ignored what Brian was saying and instead told him he was going to have to tie the two of them up.
Oh, I hate that. I hate it.
Because why would he have to tie you guys up if he's just taking your car?
Yeah, that's when you know shit is going to rot.
Yep. So the gunman pulled a length of plastic clothesline from his back pocket and tossed it to Cecilia, telling her that she needed to tie Brian's hands behind his back.
She did as she was told, but she didn't want to hurt Brian, so she tied the knots loosely.
When she finished, the man tied Cecilia's hands behind her back using very tight knots.
Yeah, I figured. And then retied Brian's hands with similarly tight bindings.
Once their hands were bound, the gunman told Brian to lie on his stomach so that he could tie his feet, but Brian protested at this point he said we might not be found here for hours and we could get hypothermia yeah we're tied up just yeah like just take the car go ahead what you want irritated the man placed the barrel of the gun to Brian's head and shouted I told you to get down you know those creepy stories that give you goosebumps the ones that make you really question what's real?
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The dramatic tone was obviously horrifying so Brian just did what the guy said.
Now he was hogtied on the ground and the man turned his attention to Cecilia binding her ankles in the same way as the man was tying Cecilia's bindings Brian noticed that as he was doing was shaking it, the guy's hands were shaking.
So he asked him, are you nervous?
And the gunman replied, yes I guess so.
Yeah. That's very, like I'm so impressed that Brian had the wherewithal to ask that question.
I think he was trying to appeal to this guy's humanity in any way.
Like you don't have to do this, if you're nervous.
Like we're having a conversation where people...
So in his mind, he interpreted the guy's handshaking to mean that maybe he wasn't as dangerous as he appeared and maybe he wasn't gonna harm them.
But unfortunately, the gunman's nervousness was probably less of a sign of inexperience as it was excitement.
He may have been shaking because he was so excited.
Which is horrifying.
Especially judging from that cypher.
Like the way he was talking seems like he got so excited that it's even better than sex. Yeah.
So, accounts about what happened next have varied depending on when the story was told.
According to the park ranger who discovered Brian and Cecilia a short time after the attack, Brian initially said that the man produced a knife from a holster and said, I'm going to have to stab you.
Yeah. At hearing this, Brian reportedly told the man, stabbed me first. I'm chicken.
I couldn't stand to see her stabbed first. Oh my God.
Which like that's fucking gentleman.
That just shattered my heart.
I know. Some time later though Bryan told detectives he couldn't remember whether he saw the man produced the knife or if he heard him say anything and that it was equally possible that he said nothing before he plunged the knife into Bryan's back.
Whatever the case he then stabbed Bryan in the back 8 times.
Oh my god. And Bryan pretended to be dead.
Again. Wow. And then when Bryan, you know, as Bryan was pretending to be dead.
The man turned his attention to Cecilia and started brutally attacking her.
He stabbed her more than 10 times in the back, abdomen and groin all while she was fighting back.
Oh my God. Confident that he'd be leaving both victims for dead, he stood up and calmly walked away leaving Brian's wallet and the car keys laying right on the ground besides the couple.
Because he had no intention.
He had no intention of taking that car.
Holy shit. Once he was sure that the man had gone, And Brian called out to Cecilia and despite the brutality of the attack, they both started discussing how they could get their bindings off and go for help.
She's still alive. They were both alive.
They're both still alive.
Holy shit. So using his teeth, Brian was able to loosen Cecilia's bindings enough to free one of her hands.
But the clothes line had been tied so tightly and for so long at this point that both of her arms had gone numb.
Oh my God. And she wasn't unable to tie his hands or her own ankles.
Desperate to find help though, they just started screaming in the hopes that one of the boats on the reservoir nearby might hear them and investigate the sound.
Oh my God. It took some time, but about 15 minutes later, which imagine 15 minutes.
Must have felt like 15 days.
Yeah, easily, 15 years.
A local fisherman, Richard Fong, heard the cries for help and he went to get a park ranger.
In the meantime, Cecilia actually, luckily had regained the use of one of her arms and she managed to free Brian's hands, which let him untie all the remaining bindings.
Believing that no help was coming because they can't hear anything coming back.
Yeah. Brian decided he needed to get to the main road and flag down a passing car.
He's been stabbed in the back eight times.
I was just gonna say like Jesus, luckily he only had to make it about 225 yards.
But even still, it is incredibly impressive when he was spotted Ranger Dennis Land who had heard the broadcast about Fong's report and started making his way to the scene.
At that same time Fong and park ranger William White had gone back to the shoreline by boat along with another couple who had also heard the noise so a ton of people are arriving on scene.
By the time everybody reached Cecilia it was clear that her injuries were a lot more serious than Brian's.
Cause she's been stabbed in the abdomen too like the groin the groin and a few more times and they're more serious than Brian's but his injuries are still really bad like that so that's saying a lot that yeah so bad Ranger white would later say I've seen a lot of things people cut by boat blades and such but never anything like these two nice kids just cut to pieces oh my god so white immediately called an ambulance and the group started tending to Cecilia the best they could while they waited for help to arrive, but unfortunately the lake was in a remote area pretty far from any main road.
So it took the ambulance and additional law enforcement almost 45 minutes to arrive.
Yeah. The MTs, when they got there, loaded both victims into the ambulance and wasted no time getting to the hospital.
But by the time they reached their destination, almost two and a half hours had gone by since the attack.
And though Brian was still conscious, Cecilia had fallen into a coma now at 740 p .m. a little over an hour after Brian and Cecilia were attacked at Lake Berryessa a call came in to the Napa Police Department for an anonymous call from an anonymous caller who said I'd like to report a murder no a double murder they are two miles north of Park headquarters they are in a white Volkswagen karmen gia just told them fuck assuming the caller was some simply reporting a crime they witnessed Officer David Slate asked the caller for their name and location.
But the man on the end ignored him and just kept talking, saying quietly, I'm the one that did it.
And then just hung up.
Holy shit. Yeah, the officer on the other end said he literally heard the phone being nestled back on the cradle.
What a nasty fucker.
Later, Officer Slate, who took the call, would describe the voice as possibly in his early 20s.
In the background, he said he could hear the noise of traffic and background chatter just before the caller had hung up.
When they traced the call to its origin, investigators discovered it had been placed from a payphone in Downtown Napa.
In total, 35 latent prints were lifted from the payphone, including one promising palm print, and some of the prints were actually so fresh that they still showed beads of moisture, which is crazy.
but unfortunately they didn't do much in identifying their killer.
Back at the crime scene, investigators were having little luck finding any leads.
After Brian and Cecilia were removed from the scene, a well -meaning park ranger moved their belongings and the bindings back to the park headquarters, which effectively compromised any evidence that could have been collected.
They just... You didn't know back then, you know?
It's not like they trying to fuck everything up.
No they were trying to help.
There was however one strange and intriguing clue left at the scene.
On the passenger side door of Bryan's car, written in felt tip pen, the gunman wrote the following message Vallejo 12 20 68 74 69 september 27 69 630 by knife.
What the fuck? So he's laying out the first murders, the first set of murders, the second set of murders, and now the third set of murders with a timestamp and how he killed them, by knife.
I hate that. Yeah or how he thought he killed them.
Holy shit. Above the message, the killer drew the now familiar symbol of the crosshairs.
Within a few days, the message would be made public in the area papers, but smart.
investigators withheld the final line by knife, knowing that they could use that information to later verify the identity of their killer.
Yeah, they were like, he's definitely going to contact us again, so let's keep that.
Despite a solid amount of critical evidence having been compromised, there were still other clues at the scene that helped reconstruct what happened.
The day after the attacks, investigators discovered a clear set of footprints leading from the scene back to where Bryant's car was, which it was parked on Knoxville Road.
and they also discovered a set of clear tire impressions leading from where the gunman had parked right behind Brian's car out to the main road.
And luckily, the tire impressions revealed a unique detail that the two front tires on the man's car didn't match, which would be invaluable should they ever find the car.
So that's good. Now that same day, investigators discovered the tracks, detectives got a call from the dean of Pacific Union College who reported that three students had come forward with some information that might be of help.
According to the three young women, they were also at the lake that day.
They had gone to sunbathe and they were settled on a spot near the western shore, which is where Brian and Cecilia had been attacked.
As they were getting out of their car, they said they all noticed a man quote in a light blue Chevrolet with California license plates and he was parked nearby.
They thought really nothing of it at the time, but in a half hour later, all of them saw the man from the parking lot standing about 50 feet away, and he was clearly watching them.
However, whenever they would look in his direction, he'd look away.
Just fucking creepy.
I hate that he's such a fucking creep.
He's creepy. That's the thing.
A short time later, the man passed by the group as he walked back toward the cars.
And when each witness was interviewed separately, they all described the man in pretty much the same way.
Approximately 30 -years -old, six -feet tall, 200 to 225 pounds, stocky with dark hair parted on the left side, wearing dark pants and a short sleeve sweater.
And they all agreed he was nice looking.
Okay. Which is even scarier that he's just, I mean who knows if this is the guy.
He's just a normal looking dude.
Like nothing out of the ordinary.
And there's a good chance it could have been that, the Zodiac, because if you look at the earlier descriptions of him, everybody says around 20 to 30, Yeah.
They say stocky or like heavyset kind of.
Yeah, which makes sense.
Yeah. Now the same day as detectives were interviewing the students from Pacific union, investigators held a press conference to provide what few details they could about the case.
Identifying the assailant as likely the same man who had attacked the two couples in Vallejo earlier that year, Napa Sheriff's captain Don Townsend told reporters, this man is a psychopathic killer.
Yeah. Which like, yes.
Valid. And he went on to say that the attack on Cecilia showed definite sexual overtones, but it's unclear what that statement was really based on.
But he did suggest, again, without the evidence, that quote, the slayings might be the work of a Napa State Hospital inmate.
– That's interesting.
– Yeah. – Because it's like, didn't the last time he said he was escaped from a...?
yeah oh he told um yeah he told brian and brian and cecilia that he was but i don't know it's yeah i mean that doesn't because he said he was an escaped inmate from like minnesota yeah something like that so that's different but interesting that it was brought up a couple times yeah it is interesting but who knows what the basis was on the afternoon of September 29th unfortunately just before 4 pm cecilia shepard passed away in the hospital making her the fourth confirmed murder victim of the man that the press now was referring to officially as the Zodiac killer.
Oh it makes me so sad.
I know. Brian Hartnell remained in serious condition but would eventually recover from his injuries.
That is unbelievable.
And to have that happen three times in a row.
Three times in the men.
Yeah which is it's just my happenstance...
yeah... and it's interesting.
I hate it, I do too.
Like I like I'm glad that they you know he survived.
I mean like I hate that like and I'm like, well, we don't know what that's about.
You know what I mean?
Like, I hate that coincidence.
I think it is a coincidence, but it is bizarre.
But it's just very bizarre.
There's a lot of, I'm not saying like, supernatural in the way of like, ghosts, see.
But there are like a lot of supernatural, paranormal - Things that feel supernatural about this, not that there is.
Yeah, I'm not saying there is.
It has a vibe to it that's very otherworldly, that feels like it.
because even his outfit feels like from another planet kind of situation.
Like you're just like, I can't reconcile someone wearing that.
Yeah, and I think obviously the fact that it's unsolved leads even more to, like heightens that feeling.
Yeah, makes it have like an alien -esque quality to it.
Yeah, but it's a case that really leaves you with the chills.
But in an interview conducted shortly after he came out of surgery, Brian described the killer as having brown hair, about five nine to maybe six feet tall, 20 to 30 years of age, and 200 to 250 pounds with a husky voice.
So pretty similar to all the other descriptions.
Investigators checked other aspects of Brian's story, including the killer's claim that he escaped from Deer Lodge state prison in Montana.
That's what it was.
I think I said Minnesota earlier.
Yeah, neither one. But officials at Deer Lodge confirmed all their inmates were accounted for.
Now, like we know, the term serial killer had not been established at this point, But in the two weeks that followed the attacks at the lake, the press and public started to process the fact that there was a multiple murderer living amongst them.
And if the past was any indication, this guy was going to kill again.
Some people were starting to think maybe the Zodiac was sexually motivated, evident in what was described as his quote unquote, effeminate handwriting and the quote sexual aberration suspected by a psychiatrist. I don't know though.
The only, I think that's kooky to attribute it to that.
I don't think there's enough.
I think what's more interesting is the fact that he literally wrote in the cipher, it's better than getting your rocks off with some girl.
Well, and I think that's really where people were getting that feeling from.
But they're like, let's talk about his quote unquote effeminate handwriting.
It's like really? Yeah, and it's like I don't think these crimes are necessarily sexually motivated.
I think he gets, probably, a sexual thrill from killing.
Yeah, like maybe that's the thing.
Maybe like that's what it's about.
That's where he gets his pleasure from.
Is doing this which is fucked up in a whole different way.
But I don't know if I would consider that.
I don't know, maybe it's just like the wording that sounds soft to me.
You know what I mean?
Because I always think of like a sexually motivated murder to include sexual assaults.
Yes. You know, which of course it doesn't always, which that's when you really think about it.
You're like, okay, well maybe, maybe it's just the term that's throwing me off.
But perhaps they're correct.
Yeah, they could be.
I mean, we don't really know the way, shape or form.
Yeah. But to others he was simply a maniac who believed the stars and planets commanded him to kill, according to an astrologer's prediction made just, um, just before the various attack.
The late, the attack on the lake quote, the heavens indicated the killer might strike a third time and this astrologer was only off by one day.
Wow. Yeah. That's impressive.
But regardless of the killers motivations almost everybody believed it was only a matter of time before he struck again and unfortunately they wouldn't be waiting long.
Oh man. But that is where we are going to wrap for part one.
Oh wow. Yeah. Wow. I'll give you a lot of information for part one.
Holy shit! I was gonna say this just like so heavy.
Like there's just so much involved in this case.
There really is. And there's still a lot more to talk about in part two.
Damn but holy shit we will leave you here because that's a lot to digest. That is a lot to digest. Crazy, very crazy.
Bonkers case, damn.
So with all that we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird. Keep it so weird that you fight with your sister about the use of the word aesthetic.
Keep it that fucking weird. And keep it so weird that you're on my side.
No! My side. I'm not old!
Whatever. Whatever.
Whatever. Michael Bockel.
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