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I have been listening to the Martha's Vineyard Beach and Book Club, which actually Elena recommended to me.
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Hey weirdos, I'm Elena. And I'm Ash. And this is Morbid.
Yeah. Yeah. And we are back. We are back to finish Israel Keys Part 2.
Because Part 1 was so much fun. Part two was apparently a huge disappointment to a lot of people.
No, part one. Or part one, I'm sorry. And also, just a quick little thing.
I apologize for my voice, but I told you guys.
I got the croup. Thanks to my kids. And I'm probably getting the croup as we speak.
Thanks to your kids. So hopefully we, it was either we record with my voice sounding slightly gravelly and gross or, Or we wait like four more days to record because that was the only time it was going to work.
So instead of deprive you guys, we're fighting through it.
Fighting through. Yeah. Ash is in the sick ward.
She's put herself here. yeah well i guess so you win some you lose some am i right godspeed But yeah, we're here to talk about Israel Keys Part 2.
What we're going to be doing in this episode is we're just going to hang out.
Here we are. That's it. That's all we're doing.
Done. Thanks for listening. No way. What we're gonna do is we're gonna go into some more detail.
We're gonna talk about... A little bit more about Israel Keys.
We're going to talk about the three murders that we went over pretty generally today.
Like last time we didn't really get into super detail last time.
But I think people want details. So I'm gonna give you details.
Here's your details. So strap in because Israel Keys is a scary motherfucker.
All hands inside the ride at all times, please.
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Hey. It's up your alley. It's there. You're in the alley.
It's up there. It's so up there. Take a left.
Do it. Woo! Woo! So before we jump into Israel Keys, I just want to give you guys a layout of the week and what is ahead.
We will be releasing Israel on Sunday or Monday.
Ash's mini will be shortly following that.
And then later in the week. we are going to record that episode that I asked you guys if you would be interested in. where we're going to talk about the Zac Efron, Ted Bundy movie.
Wicked, shockingly evil, vile, gross, nasty.
Extremely evil. I always forget. Just gross.
Super gross. That's what it's called. The title is... Ew.
Ew, Ted Bundy. No, just... Ew. Netflix missed an opportunity.
They really did. Ew. So we'll be watching.
Ew. We'll be talking about how much we dislike or like it because neither one of us has seen it yet because...
I have kids and it's really hard to fit time in to watch these things.
So we're going to watch it. We're going to write down some notes.
We're going to compare, contrast to the real Ted Bundy case.
We're going to make a vent. Venn diagram.
We are. We're gonna make a Venn diagram.
I don't even remember how. We're gonna have an episode where we kind of discuss it.
And, yeah, so we'll be putting that out later this week.
So you're getting a lot of episodes this week to make up for the fact that we were kind of... remiss last week sorry because the croup so without further ado Let's fucking get into it.
Let's talk about Israel Keys. So what's interesting, we have a nice little segue, was Israel Keys was super into Ted Bundy.
Shit. Isn't that funny? I didn't even mean to do that.
That's funny. He knew about Ted Bundy, obviously, because we all do.
But he also had a deeper understanding of his motives and methods.
And it seemed like he almost, well, he did admire him.
And he was someone who he copied whenever he could.
For example, both are sexually motivated killers.
Because Israel Keyes is a sexually motivated killer.
He will say that it is in all of his crimes.
Both were very controlled in their approach to their killings.
Mm-hmm. Until the very end, when both of them lost their shit.
The differences are also kind of vast between them, too.
Like... The fact that Bundy had a very specific victim who he never strayed from.
You know, young college girl. Dark hair, pardon the murder.
Yeah, like he had the most, I mean, I've yet to see another serial killer that had that specific of a victim and didn't stray from it.
But Israel seemed to be kind of a fairly equal opportunity killer.
You know, like we talked about last time that his really only...
His only caveats with that would be kids.
He didn't want to kill a dog. No moms. And he didn't really want to kill moms.
He didn't want anything to do with full-blown families, I think.
So he mainly went after middle-aged, single, or elderly.
So that's definitely different. Both held down girlfriends during their crime sprees at one point or another.
Oh, damn. Liz with... Bundy. Bundy and...
Israel was dating the mother of his child, Tammy, for the beginning of his crime spree.
Oh really? Yeah, and then he had a live-in girlfriend when he even when he kidnapped Samantha Koenig he had a live-in girlfriend So they were both able to hold down relationships.
And the live-in girlfriend didn't know anything about her being in the doghouse out back?
No. Because she was in a shed out back. And he just locked the shed.
And I think it was just like one of those things where she was just like... Because again, if John had a shed...
Outback, the last thing I would think is that he was hiding girls out there. shit that he was planning on murdering i mean now like if john goes and builds a shed we're gonna have a problem listen buddy but at the time to you The last thing you think is like the person you're in a relationship with.
And he wasn't by all accounts. He wasn't abusive to any of his girlfriends.
He was a good father, by all accounts. So there really was no reason, I think, for her to think he's doing some shady shit out there.
You know? And like, what are you going to do in a shed?
You just don't think that... Hang up your tools.
That's all you really can think. And again, Bundy killed a child.
He killed Kimberly Leach who was 12 years old.
Right. So that's something Israel would just never do.
I'm not giving him any credit for this. I am just putting it out there as a fact.
I think that you think he's really smart and that he is awesome.
And that he's great. I don't think he's great.
I don't think he's any... better for this weird little moral code he had.
Guys, we don't think these people are great.
We don't. Do I say that I would have gotten on Charlie Manson's bus?
Yeah, what I have, yeah. But it wouldn't have ended well.
No. And we recognize that. And I attest to that.
And we're saying they're terrible people, but sometimes terrible people are smart people, and that is just a fact of life.
It's just a fact. It is. It's just a fact.
Don't get mad at me. Well, Israel straight up, he admitted to identifying with Bundy in one of his FBI interviews.
He said he could identify with him mainly because he said he seemed that... he too could separate the different aspects of his personality and his love lives that conflicted with this dark side.
So he felt like he was Ted Bundy, like he could act like this charming, you know, dude and be a family man and a He was active in his community and all that good stuff.
And then he was doing all this dark shit.
Which is like totally why I feel like he's a Gemini, but he's not.
He's not. He's a Capricorn. I know. I remember.
And funny enough, Israel thought, because the FBI interviews after they arrested him for the...
Samantha Koenig, Abduction and Murder. They had countless interviews with him where they really talked to him for hours and hours on end.
He was a talker? But it was in his control.
Only to a certain extent. Just like Bundy.
Exactly. And so... Yeah, he was a talker, but he was no Ed Kemper.
It's not like he was giving you details after details for nothing.
Ed Kemper was just like really needed to talk.
Ed Kemper, if you were like, here's a Snickers, he'd be like, all right, let me tell you every single detail.
But Israel needed something back from you that was very big.
And he would bring you to a point and then he'd go, I'm not going to talk more about that.
Like he'd only give you little snippets.
It's like, oh, you little shit. Poop face.
So they did start talking to him after they brought up the Bundy stuff.
They started talking to him about... other serial killers and they were like because i guess he had a very big collection of true crime books he was a big horror movie and slasher movie fan we're fucked if you ever get a I mean, I was just gonna say, same.
So it's like, I can't even say that that's like, oh, that's it, he's a killer.
When I tell people I have a true crime podcast, they're like, that's funny.
Like, that's cute. That's hilarious. When I tell people that, they're like, yep, uh-huh.
Didn't you come out of the womb with a true crime?
I'm like, basically. Essentially. Essentially.
Thank you and good night. Thank you. So.
Funny enough, Israel thought like us that BTK was the worst.
He is the worst. He thought he was dumb and disgusting, not impressive or admirable or anything like that.
He was definitely not talking about him like he was talking about Bundy. but when he discussed him he did say that he believed that the fact that BTK had to kill, in his words, had to kill an entire family, the Oteros.
And had to kill a couple of young kids in this process.
And he kept saying he had to. Like, his hand was forced.
Which is interesting. Like, he got in this situation.
He wanted to rape this lady. He went in there.
The whole family's there. There's these kids, so he's gotta kill them.
Like, bummer. Like, it was one of those, like, you can't turn back now.
And he said that whole thing probably fucked him up.
And he said if he had to do something like that, it would have changed him completely.
And it would have changed his process completely.
Serial killers are just like another animal.
Such a conundrum. It's like... It's very interesting.
It is. That's why when people think it's weird to be into serial killers, you're like, I'm not into it because I think they're great.
They are fascinating. So fascinating. Because their way of thinking is just so beyond.
And none of it makes sense. None of it clicks together.
It's all like... You're this evil monster.
But then you're like, oh, if I had to kill children, it would have messed me up forever.
It's like, what? What? But everyone was a child at some point.
Everyone is someone's child. But you don't think that way.
It's like, what the fuck? Like, Samantha Koenig... barely an adult.
I know. And it's like she's someone's daughter.
It's just crazy to me. And you played her father like a fiddle, knowing that that's his child.
How did you feel? That whole thing is so awful.
And we're going to get into more details about that in a minute.
Interestingly, his favorite serial killer... Do you know whose favorite serial killer it was?
Can you think? Charlie Manson? No. H.H.
Holmes oh okay yeah he wanted like legitimately to be H.H.
Holmes weird He thought the murder castle and the hotel and the dungeon and all that was genius.
And he thought it was fascinating. Because he said that he seemed sane to him, even though he was this vicious murderer.
He said it looked like he kept it together.
Say what? but he had this crazy alter ego and that's how he thought about himself so he thought very highly i was gonna say it is interesting that many serial killers are extremely narcissistic Exactly.
Because he's sitting there being like, just like me.
And it's like, you didn't have a murder castle, buddy.
And again, not saying H.H. Holmes is like this great genius or anything, but like, he had a fucking murder castle.
He had a castle. What did you have? Like, you didn't have anything.
A shed. When the FBI asked him, because they were like, they were like, all right, we got to ask you, do you have a murder? castle like they were like do you have a dungeon somewhere like are we he was like no i because he was he was talking about it like this is where it's at like this is what it is He was like goals.
He was. He was saving murder castles on his Instagram.
He really was. He had a vision board and everything.
Oh my god. Oh my god. And he said he had plans to make one.
And he said it was, quote, more of my retirement plan.
Oh. And then he laughed. He went, ha ha ha ha.
Like, isn't that funny, everybody? And everyone was like, it's time for lunch.
I had a retirement plan to make a murder castle.
That's what I was putting in my 401k. k4 it's like awesome you're you're a crack up we're gonna take a break this is real he's so funny can you imagine being like the people that have to talk to them like right across the fucking table and you literally have to be like like as far as we're sitting apart yeah And you have to keep him talking and keep him trusting you.
And you can't change your face at all. So when he does something like that, you can't be like... you fucking maniac.
What's wrong with you? That's not funny.
You have to be like, no. Same, buddy. Finger guns.
That's hilarious. Yeah, too much. Then you have to leave and just go. dry heave and pretend to move on with your life even though you're scarred forever yeah he even told them after this that he had a plan later like when he was in like retirement age Because he was like, I want to do this forever.
I want to murder people forever lifelong murder yeah he was like you do what you love forever Jesus Christ if you love what you do you never work a day in your life you never work a day in your life So he said he had a plan to become a traveling contractor and he would just follow natural disasters and take advantage of people and kill them this way.
That's even, that's like really horrible.
Isn't that horrific? That's very horrible.
He was like, I would just follow hurricanes.
Yeah. And cause more havoc. Yeah. And then just like get these people in dire straits to trust me, do contract work for them, and murder them.
Wow. Like, what? This is how... I have no idea how this dude is not, like, number one.
Like, he's just beyond. It's so interesting because I've never heard of him.
Yeah, and a lot of people were like... Either they heard of him and were like, holy shit, I want to hear this.
Or they were like, who is... I haven't heard of that one.
It's like, oh, he bad. He bad. He bad. Now...
Israel is one of those serial killers that confounds conventional thinking of what a serial killer is supposed to be, like Bundy.
He had a family. I'm not saying it was always, you know, the perfect family, but he had one.
And he said to have been a great father and a decent partner.
He had long-term friendships that he could hold down, which is weird.
He didn't have many instances of aggressive behavior noted by those around him.
His former girlfriend and baby mama said they almost had to bait him into getting mad or jealous at all.
Interesting. Like Tammy, the mother of his child, said she would literally try to do things to like get... some kind of emotional reaction out of him.
Cause she was like, he never got jealous or mad.
I wonder if it's because he got all his jealousy and anger out when murdering.
Which sounds fucking horrible. No, it's true.
It seems like that was his release. And it was like, yeah, he got such a release out of that that he didn't feel any. aggression later even more terrifying yeah like because that's how much he liked it and that's how what it fed him you know yeah Like, that's really scary.
He held down jobs for a long time. Like he would hold down jobs for like years and years and he was successful.
He was driven. People liked him. People respected him.
He was a member of the community. I mean, you don't hear a lot of people... I have yet to find somebody being like...
He was really weird and this doesn't surprise me that much.
Right, which is what you hear most of the time.
Yeah. It's like Ted Bundy, how all these people are like, I said there's no fucking way it could be Ted.
The stranger beside me. Like, Anne Rule worked right next to him.
And she's a crime writer and former police officer.
And she said there was no way she thought it would be him.
That's insane. It's the same kind of thing.
Yeah. If I had to put money on who it would be if I knew a serial killer, I would bet thousands of dollars on you.
Wow. Thank you. You're welcome. So it's interesting that he really does have a lot of parallel with Bundy.
When the FBI asked him how he chose the victims...
They asked whether... Because they were just talking to him about the process.
They were like, you gotta walk me through... Like, this is weird how you do this.
Because you bury these kids. For like...
Did you say years or months? Yes, years.
One of them was two years. Yeah, that's insane to me.
Yeah, and again, it seemed like he just went after... you know places people of opportunity well like it was more like it was a place that he had buried it where he knew he wanted to kill someone and then it was whatever was just happened to be there It was whatever worked for him at the moment.
It wasn't like he stalked them and had their profile and stuff.
Right. So... They asked him whether he would talk to someone and think about victimizing them, but then maybe decided not to after talking to them.
Did that happen? And Israel said, quote, no.
I don't know. As soon as someone talks to me, that kind of puts it on a different spectrum for me.
I like to take somebody by surprise. I don't know why it feels like when I start talking to people, I go into a different mode.
Like I want to be their friend or something.
And then he laughed. And then he said, quote, but obviously if I've already decided to take somebody, I'm not their friend.
Wow. So if you were friendly to him, he wouldn't murder you.
If you were friendly to him, he could still murder you.
But he's saying... Just because you talk to me doesn't mean I'm going to like humanize you.
He's saying if I've decided to take you, you weren't my friend.
Right. Like I have friends. And then just because you're trying to be my friend, if I've decided you're it, you're it.
Wow. And it's like that's terrifying. That's a lot to handle in my brain.
You couldn't humanize yourself to him. Hate that.
Unless you said, like, I'm a mom. Yeah, unless you were like, I'm a mom.
Then he'd be like, oh, shit. Shit. Yeah.
And he laughs a lot during these interviews.
He's like L-O-L. He's... A giggling motherfucker.
Hate that. He is. He laughs a lot. I hate it so much.
He thinks he's the bee's knees. Like Israel, do your friends think you're funny?
Do your friends think you're funny? Probably not.
No, doubt it. Israel was cold, calculated...
And fucking brutal. He was not a good genius like we said before.
No. He was cunning and meticulous. That is true.
Right. Unfortunately that is true. If you don't like us telling you that, then I don't know what to tell you because it's just the truth, unfortunately.
We're not glorifying him. Not in any way, shape, or form.
Yeah, he was just some shitty people are really good at being shitty people.
It's just like he wasn't bad at being a shitty person.
He was great at it. Unfortunately, that's true of some of the most awful people in the world.
They're just intelligent. It sucks. It isn't fair.
Now I'm going to give you some details about the three known murders of Israel Pease. from his interviews with the FBI, the ones we've already talked about.
I'm going to give you a few more details.
If anyone wants to debate the validity of the information here, talk to a Ouija board and conjure his ghost to chat with because it's coming from his own mouth.
Like I'm not making these things up. I didn't find these in some like random Wikipedia place or somewhere.
This is from his interviews. So, 1124, the night Samantha Koenig went missing, Her boyfriend was sent a text from her phone that said, F you, asshole.
I know what you did. I'm going to spend a couple of days with friends.
Need time to think. Let my dad know. Interesting.
So he got that and was like, uh, this doesn't make any sense.
A little while later at 1153, he got another text from her phone that just said, F you.
And he was like, I'm confused. Yeah. This was, this seems like weird and like, why would Israel do that?
Right. Because Israel had her at this point.
This was Israel. Yeah, it wasn't him. But it is kind of smart on his part because when the FBI reviewed the recent texts between Samantha and her boyfriend after all this...
It was the boyfriend. Well, they had been arguing that day.
Oh. So it was likely that Keyes looked through the phone and her text messages saw that they had been arguing and he was like, oh, I can further this narrative.
Perfect. and pin this on him wow so that is pretty smart that he like because he didn't just go off the cuff and be like i'm just gonna start a fight see what happens he was like oh, they were already arguing that day.
So let's just make this happen. I feel like that's not even smart.
I feel like that's just like... Like, it helped him.
That's just luck. Like, it was just convenient.
That's pure dumb luck. Yeah. And he was like, great, I'm gonna run with this.
Right. So the text he sent to the boyfriend 23 days after her abduction, after he had already killed her, it was the one that I posted on our Instagram account.
It said, You're making me really sad. I know.
Connor Park sign under pick of Albert, ain't she purdy.
Gross. Gross. If you say the word purdy, you leave.
That gives me the heebs on every level. Leave, leave, leave.
That something can give me the heebs. Leave.
Well, when I first read this, I was like, under Albert?
Like, what does that mean? I read that and I was like, is that under that guy's foot?
Like, what? Is that like a street? Or like a avenue?
What was it? I'm confused. A tree? Apparently Albert was a lost dog flyer. stapled to a tree in the park and the dog's name was Albert.
Wow. So he said, like, under Albert. And I was like, oh, that's why.
Interesting. I needed to clear that detail up because it was bothering me.
No, me too. I didn't know who Albert was.
Now, after they got that text, that's when Samantha's dad notified the Anchorage PD. and investigators assigned to the case went to the location mentioned in the text, found the plastic bag with a typewritten note,
And the infamous Polaroid. Yeah. The note said $30,000 needed to be placed into Samantha's bank account.
Uh, they obviously made them think that she was alive because why would you assume someone sewed a dead person's eyes open for a photo?
Hate that. Hate that. You would never think that.
So the FBI started looking for fingerprints, anything on this stuff, because you would think maybe he'll slip up somewhere.
Something would be there. They also directed her father, James, to help him deposit that ransom into her account so that they could start monitoring it right uh but at this point they were actually still thinking that her father was a suspect oh interesting yeah that's really horrible It is, because I guess there was rumors that they didn't get along, that he wasn't... So she had recently... come away from like pretty bad drug problem so she was like on her way she was out of that sobriety and she was trying to like live soberly Which is even... It's like she just gets it together and this happens.
It's like really sad. And... There were rumors that her father was involved with drugs and maybe something went wrong.
People were just making rumors, you know?
Yeah. So February 29th at 10.13 p.m., someone tried to take money out of her bank account at the Alaskan USA Bank.
Same night, 11.56pm, there was another attempt at withdrawing money from her bank account at Denali Alaskan Credit Union.
Okay. Same night, 1226 a.m., there was a third attempt at another Alaskan bank. it's a little yeah so they were like oh he's taking the money out right he's just doing it at different ATMs to try to like throw us off right And one of the banks, they did get surveillance footage of a 2007 silver Nissan Xterra.
Okay. The person driving it was a white male, but they were wearing a ski mask.
Terrifying. But on the abduction video... of samantha koenig that is really scary online you can see that he's wearing a ski mask hate that hate that hate so they were like oh that's him March 7th was when they stopped thinking her father was a suspect.
Okay. Why? Um, This was because another withdrawal was made from the account.
He was taking small amounts out at another ATM in Wilcox, Arizona.
Oh, wow. That's a far drive. So investigators saw more surveillance footage of this one, a white man in a ski mask. but he was driving a white Ford Focus away from the scene.
How was he finding all these cars? That was a rental.
Oh, this is when see this is when Israel pulled a Bundy.
You know how Bundy at the end of his just went bonkers bananas, Cuckoo Nut Man?
Yep. And just let it all, you know, he would have gotten, Bundy would have gotten away with it forever if he just kept on his game.
Right. Israel would have probably got away with it forever if he just kept on his game.
They both just lost their shit at the end.
Because eventually we all lose our shit.
We all lose our shit, I guess. Including serial killers.
And this is him losing his shit. Okay. Because demanding ransom, totally against anything he ever did before.
Yeah. Yeah. That was when he fucked himself.
Which is confusing because I feel like he didn't need the money.
I know. Because he was... I mean, he was robbing banks.
He was doing... He could just keep doing his thing.
Right. So this... That's why. It's just like one of those things where he just... stepped over that line for some weird reason lost control and yeah it spun out So now in New Mexico, 80 miles away, there was another withdrawal.
This was when they contacted the DEA because this agency was able to pull footage from the route he was taking in New Mexico.
Okay. So they got license plates from a couple of white Ford focuses driving that route.
And they were both Avis rental cars. Oh, shit.
So the FBI contacted Avis and started that whole process of getting that information.
But that takes a little while. Yeah, of course.
They can't just hand it over. Right. So, meanwhile, one day later, there was another withdrawal 900 miles away in Texas.
Okay. Two days later, more money in Texas.
So now everybody's on the lookout. There's like a bolo out for them.
Mm-hmm. And on March 13th, 2012, they got one of the two rental car agreements back.
The FBI did. And they figured out that that one was not their suspect.
Oh, come on. So they were like, we need that other one.
That's our guy. Yeah. So as they waited for the info about the renter that they thought was their guy, that car... was seen in a motel in Lufkin, Texas.
So they had investigators stake out the place for like 30 minutes before the owner, Israel Keys, Ugh. came out, put something in his trunk, and then drove away.
So they followed him and at 11.45 a.m. he was pulled over for speeding.
Oh, Israel. Also another Bundy move. He was pulled over for erratic driving.
Fucking idiots. Stupid. It's almost like he wanted to go down exactly like Bounty in some way.
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So an FBI officer arrived on that scene when he was pulled over and he was questioned on the side of the road.
He told them that he flew from Anchorage to Las Vegas and drove a rental car from there to Texas because he was attending his sister's wedding.
They said he was super pissy, he was sweaty, he was nervous, like clearly acting like something was wrong.
And he wouldn't cooperate. They were like, something's wrong here.
No way, no. Then investigators peeked in the car really quick, just like through the window and And they saw white shoes, the mask scene, and all the surveillance videos.
And they also noted woman's clothing. Ugh.
Two cell phones, one was Samantha's. Oh.
And the piece de resistance, Samantha Koenig's driver's license and ATM card.
Oh. So this fucker was driving around being like, here, I did it.
Like literally, it's just like laying in his backseat.
That was stupid. Like you're dumb. Now, Israel was arrested, and he was probably super pissed about it.
Because he said to investigators that he had planned to go out in a blaze of glory.
Like, he literally told them that. What does that even mean?
Well, when he exited the motel and drove away that day, what he put in the trunk was his loaded gun.
And he said it was out of reach. So he had to go like a little bitch.
But he was pissed about it because he said if that gun was in reach, I would have started shooting.
Like it would have been, he wanted to go out in like some big blaze of glory.
Wow. But he just couldn't get to it. That's the only reason he didn't.
That's so fucked up. And I'll just play that clip really quick of him saying that.
What a fucking weirdo. He's just like. He's, like, so chill about it, too.
He's so casually like, yeah, that was my plan.
That was my plan. Like, fuck you, Israel.
Isn't that funny? I'm glad he didn't get to.
Yeah, me too. So March 23, 2012, he was extradited back to Alaska.
The FBI team that would work his case and interrogate him the whole time consisted of Special Agent Jolene Godin, who was leading the investigation...
She's a badass. Yeah. Apparently she ran some, like, huge... operation in alaska to like nail uh sex trafficking you know like predators yeah she's amazing now former agent Bobby Chacon, and assistant U.S.
District Attorneys Kevin Feldes and Frank Russo, I believe.
When he went in to talk to them about the Koenig abduction, he asked for an Americano, a Snickers, and a cigar.
So he asked for an Americana. Which is what he ordered.
That's what he ordered from Samantha. That's fucked up.
Fuck you, Israel. Seriously. Like, God, I hate him.
Also, you think they have that at jail? Well, they gave it to him.
They'll give these people these things if they'll talk.
Oh. And they know that. That's why they ask for things like that, because they'll make somebody go get it.
An Americano, a Snickers, and a cigar. Yes.
He asked for a cigar every time that he was interviewed.
Weird. And if he was ready to like tell something, he'd be like, hey, do you guys have my cigar?
Like, are you going to give me a cigar? I'll tell you this.
Close, but no cigar. Close, but no cigar.
And again, they gave it to him because he said he would talk and he did.
Okay. So he explained that Samantha fought like hell.
Like she fought... So everybody know that Samantha was a fucking fighter when he finally had got her to his truck after he abducted her.
He zip-tied her to the seat and drove around aimlessly while he waited for his girlfriend and daughter to go to fucking sleep.
Oh my God. Yup. He literally drove around waiting for them to go to sleep.
Wow. Yup. He waited until around 11 PM. He threw her into a shed on his property and And in the shed, he had laid out tarps, rope, tools, blankets, a space heater, and a radio.
So he had this already beforehand. He said he also got himself a glass of bourbon, and gave Samantha a glass of red wine and turned on the radio.
How gentlemanly. And he said he let her have the wine.
So they sat and had a drink together. What?
And then he raped and strangled her to death.
Jesus. Over several hours. He then wrapped her body in a tarp and placed it in a cabinet in the shed.
At some point during this night, he went to Samantha's car to get her phone and debit card, like we mentioned in part one.
And her boyfriend... members saw him and like was like what the fuck he went back to the stand yeah okay So, this is when he went on vacation with his family, when he put her in the tarp, stuffed her in a cabinet.
Right. They went away for a while. So she froze in there because it's Alaska.
Oh, God. The details of that random photo are pretty fucking terrible.
And we mentioned some of them in part one, but like I said, this is a really detailed episode, so fucking buckle up.
I don't wanna in preparation for that photo so when he got back from his vacation He had to thaw her body out.
So he used a hair dryer to thaw her entire body out.
No. Yep. Sat in that shed and used a hair dryer to thaw her out.
No. He then braided her hair. And he knew how to do that because he braided his daughter's hair.
Which is really super fucking creepy. He put makeup on her and then sewed her eyes open.
He then dismembered her after staging the ransom photo.
And he stated that before he submerged her remains in the frozen lake.
Well, like while he did that, he went ice fishing because why the fuck not, right?
So he literally was like putting her in there and he was like, I'm just going to go fishing while I'm here.
And he caught some fish and he cooked it for his girlfriend and his kid that night.
So he caught fish from the same place where he and fed it to his family.
And fed it to his family. Okay. Yeah. Yep.
To get rid of everything, he burned all the evidence and only kept her cell phone ID and ATM card.
And, oh, he also kept that braided lock of hair from her.
What? Because he's a fucking psycho. He literally kept the braid that he put in her hair.
Where? Where did they find it? I don't know.
Well, they found it with all his other shit.
I don't know how to speak words now. I didn't even know how to process that information.
I was like, okay. Now, during the week that followed all of this, he actually went to a parent-teacher conference for his daughter.
No. Can you imagine being one of those teachers now?
No. Being like, um, no. Yep. Yep. No. Yep.
No. Yup. What? Like that's... That's beyond.
You just go to a parent-teacher conference.
Like no big deal? Like every other parent?
That's insane. My mom wasn't even a serial killer and she never went to parent-teacher conferences.
I'm not shocked at all. What? Yeah. Even serial killers make time for parent-teacher conferences.
Thanks, Mom. It's like, Israel Keys went to parent-teacher conferences.
I mean, he had... He had responsibilities.
He had to get back to life. Wow. Yeah. Those details...
It just blew my mind when I was listening to him talk about it.
Yeah, I'm shooketh. Yeah. You're going to be more shooketh.
No. So on April 2nd, 2012, an FBI dive team recovered Samantha's remains from the bottom of Matt... Matt... Blah, blah, blah. yes that you know that place yeah i've been there matanuska lake i'm glad that they were able to find them Yeah.
Special Agent Chacon said the team then sent out an underwater robotic vehicle to search the fishing hole.
And there is like video of this actually, like the video taken from the robot.
And he said, quote, as soon as the video camera went on, we saw obvious human remains.
As a diver, when you first place your hands on that person underwater to bring them home, You start to get a feeling that this is now beyond evidence in a case because we are the first people to put our hands on that victim since the killer.
You're happy, but how happy can you be when you've got a dismembered girl in front of you?
Whoa. Which you don't even think about that.
It's like they're so happy to have found her, but then they're like, There's just someone's daughter in pieces in front of me that I'm happy to bring to the surface, you know?
Like, you just don't even think of those situations.
That gave me chills. No, it was during...
I think their third interview with Israel Keys that the FBI agents were like, uh, he's a serial killer.
Yeah. Like they were like, this is not just like a one time thing.
So they had an order from the district attorney of Alaska that stated that that they were allowed to start questioning him about crimes unrelated to Samantha Koenig.
So Israel was fucking brutal, though, because he wasn't in control of everything.
So he was doing these negotiations and deals and...
He wanted to be part of everything in the investigation.
He wanted control of these negotiations.
Like, he was fucking brutal. When you listen to these interviews, you're like...
I want to punch him. Why? Like, what was he saying?
He was just... It was like they were pulling teeth to get... even just an inch from him.
And it's like... And he's just such a cocky dick.
And he knows he has all the control. Because he has...
All the information. They only have Samantha Koenig's remains.
He has all the other information and they got nothing.
And he's just sitting there going, you want it?
You got to do something. I need a cigar, please.
Yeah. So he was telling them that they would find other bodies, but that they wouldn't have enough to connect him to them. and he was only willing to connect himself to them if it was on his terms.
So what were his terms? His main concern throughout this was that he wanted to keep the sensationalism and shit away from his daughter.
He didn't want her knowing exactly what he did.
But you did that to her, though. Exactly.
Like... Again, if you didn't want that to happen, then you shouldn't have become a serial killer because... you had a kid like she she is a serial killer daughter and she's always going to be She didn't do that.
You did that to her. Exactly. She didn't.
And it's like he's got this weird moral code with kids.
That he connects to being a father and connects to having a daughter.
And then he goes and says... And then he goes and kills someone's daughter.
The whole reason... I don't want this sensationalizes.
I just want to protect my daughter. It's not about me.
I don't want her getting flack for this.
I don't want her having to be Israel Keyes' daughter forever.
And it's like... But you were fine with being selfish enough to do these things when you knew eventually it probably would. come to an end well that's the thing though he didn't think it was going to come to an end at all that's what it comes down to And it's like some weird dichotomy of narcissism that he acts like this selfless father, but he's also this selfish monster.
Exactly. Ugh, so weird. So he did give the most information and the most, like...
I don't even know how to explain like callous attitude about the courier's abduction.
Oh. The one we talked about last time. Now, during the investigation, during this whole Samantha Koenig investigation...
His girlfriend who lived with him was subject to interviews and also subject to her things being searched and seized because she lived with him.
Right. So this included the Nissan Xterra that was seen on the video that he used to withdraw money. from Samantha's account one time, that car was hers.
Oh, shit. So he apparently felt bad and wanted her to be treated nicer.
So what he did was he told them details about the courier's case because he wanted his girlfriend's stuff returned to her.
And he used the information about the courier's case to make the FBI give it back to her.
That is very weird. And he feels sympathy for his girlfriend.
He's so weird. It's like... Because he says, he's like, I will give you all this, but I want to know that she's getting her car back.
That's so weird because typically they're not capable of loving somebody.
No. I feel like he was. And it's like he weirdly is thinking of her in being inconvenienced.
And he's like... feels bad that he was the reason for that.
That must have been weird for her to find that out, too, because I'd be like, ugh.
I don't want you to feels for me. And I don't want that car back.
No. You can have it, man. Have the car. Thank you.
It's so weird. Now, when we initially covered the Courier's abduction and murder, we didn't go into super detail.
We just kind of like. told you what happened in a generalized way because to be honest it's really fucked up And we were trying to kind of just get the idea of his MO and his crimes with just like that general overview.
Like buckle up though, because I will throw out a few more details from his own mouth to paint a little more of a picture for you.
Like Samantha, the Curriers were fighters.
These two fought to the end. It's like really frustrating to hear.
I hate that. It is. It's like I both. Oh, it's just so frustrating.
It just makes me really sad. They were not ready from the jump.
They were not ready to lay down and accept what he had coming for them.
What bothers me most about his interviews is the way he callously laughs when he retells the horror that he inflicted on these poor people.
Because he enjoys reliving it. He tells it.
I mean, if he was matter of fact about it, that's bad enough.
Right. Like, BTK telling his murders to the courtroom... like a courtroom full of victims' families, like he was reciting a grocery list, is infuriating.
But hearing Israel Keyes chuckle as he recalls the fact that these poor people never expected this shit to happen to them is like a whole other level of nightmare.
I hate that. At one point, I'm going to play the clip right here, actually.
At one point, he actually says that he's like, they never expel like. like it was funny that they had no like they did not expect me to come in there in the middle of the night like I'll play it right here really quick pretty shocked People never expect stuff to happen to them.
Hate that. Right? It's true, you don't. Because you, no, no, I don't fucking expect that.
No, no. But that's not funny. Now I do, shit, fuck.
Like, fuck, Israel, that is not funny. funny like what the he's literally laughing because he's like oh my god they were totally blindsided by me coming into their home in the middle of the night like most people would be And it's like, why is that?
That's not humor. So what happened? We told you, you know, he broke into their home.
At one point he says he had to wait a while outside of their home because their neighbor kept taking smoke breaks on his porch.
So he had to wait for the neighbor to go to sleep.
So when he finally went into the home, he said he just kind of burst into the room, like we said, with the headlamp.
I hate that. And he says they were like, you're just coming out of sleep.
You have no idea. He made them take everything off the bed.
He tied them both up. He says that he gave them very specific instructions.
You don't talk to each other. You don't talk until I tell you to talk.
You don't try to move. You don't do this.
You don't do that. And then he ransacked the house.
He said for about 15 minutes. When he came back in, at one point he said Lorraine was trying to formulate an escape plan.
He couldn't hear her. Yeah. So he went in there and he said he like shoved her face into the mattress and told her he would kill her if she tried again.
Oh my God. He then got them both into their car.
Hate that. He said Lorraine in the front seat and Bill in the, I believe in the back seat behind the passenger side.
And he buckled them both in. He tied them both in so they couldn't move.
He said Lorraine was already trying to be like, you know, you don't have to do this.
And she was saying to her husband, like, we need to do something.
Like, yeah, let's do something. But like, what the fuck could they do?
Like, they were really... In Dire Straits at this point.
And he says at one point during all of this, he noticed something that told him that Bill Currier was... was happened to at one point be in the same branch of the military that he was in.
Oh, so he said he asked him about it. Like he wanted to talk to him about it.
But that wasn't enough to make him not kill him. me is I wonder if this made Bill feel like he was humanizing himself and like maybe giving himself and his wife a shot. at living through this whole thing.
And the worst part is Israel never intended them to live through this.
Ever. And it's like, I have to think that Bill probably thought and said, look, I'm going to talk about this and I'm going to make myself a human.
Yeah. Yeah. You know, like, cause I would think that I'd be like, okay, I'm going to humanize myself right now.
Right. Big time. Like we have something in common.
We're military buddies. Like, what are you doing?
And Israel was like, oh, I had no fucking intention of ever letting them live.
Like... Never once. That is so fucked up.
It's so chilling. Because I can't imagine.
Yeah, that's just like, he's a monster. He's so chilling.
Now, when we talked about this last time again, we said he brought...
He brought them to an abandoned farmhouse that he had already staked out.
He had already brought Bill down into the basement.
Hate that. And tied him up. And that he brought Lorraine back into the abandoned farmhouse and into one of the upstairs bedrooms after she had attempted to flee from the car.
Yeah. after he left her husband and killed him in the basement and He raped her in this bedroom he had brought her into.
But what I didn't detail was the fact that he had secured her to the mattress on the floor...
That he had placed ahead of time in the middle of this empty room.
Ew. In an incredibly horrifying and intricate way.
I mean... Jesus. And then he goes downstairs and murders Bill and then comes up and rapes her in this way.
I don't. know what to say and i'm picturing this i don't want that in my brain and i'm like just and i couldn't help but think about like being in that situation i'm like Oh my god.
What are you supposed to do? This is beyond horror movie.
Beyond. And it's like he went through such intricate measures to make this so uncomfortable and awful and horrifying.
Yeah, I hate this a lot. It's hard to believe this is real.
It really is. I just don't. I almost want to believe he's making this shit up.
Yeah, same. Same, but I don't. But I don't know if... Could you make that up?
Like, that's really... I mean, he's a sick fuck.
I almost want to believe that he's making it up because, like, Jesus Christ.
So after he brutally killed Bill in the basement by shooting him ten times and hitting him with a shovel, he repeatedly raped Lorraine upstairs.
He says in his FBI interview that the second time he raped her, he choked her to unconsciousness.
My God. She came to... And he walked her down to the basement.
So he just like casually walked her down to the basement.
He even says that she was out of it because of the whole choking thing.
Yeah. So he was like, yeah, I don't even know if she knew what was going on at that point because she was just out of it.
And again, I'm just like, you can't help but have this awful movie playing in your head of this.
And he said he sat her on a bench, took a piece of nylon rope. stood behind her and began to strangle her.
In his words, quote, used it like a garage.
He said he knew she was gone, but he was still nervous that she would wake back up because she had fought so hard the entire time.
Right. So he took a cable tie and wrapped it around her neck as tight as he could he then left her on the floor jesus yeah i just don't understand like how you drive away after doing all of that And it's like he just drives away and like, do you just go to sleep?
Right. Just like close your eyes and... Dream big dreams?
Like what do you do? I don't know. But it's like I think he does.
I think he just goes home and goes to sleep.
I feel like you need to take a really big, deep breath after that.
You need to take a look. I think everybody, listeners...
Can we all just take a big deep breath together?
Because... Oh, shit. I know. I needed that.
This is a really tough one. Yeah. Thank you so much.
Very, very tough. Really tough. Now, like we stated, I think that's basically the last of the really graphic detail I'm going to tell you about anything.
Thank you. Thank you very much. Sorry. Now, like we stated in part one, there are only three victims that the FBI confirms are Key's victims.
But they do believe that they can almost 100% attribute a fourth to him as well.
Okay. And again, they think they can attribute 11 to him, they think, but then they think it could be 36.
There's a lot of discrepancy. Right. But this fourth one, they basically pinned on him.
Okay. Like they're like this close. The victim was believed to have been kidnapped, raped, and murdered in New England.
Oh shit. In April 2009, he visited New England, and he does admit that he kidnapped someone while he was there.
Okay. Okay. But he wouldn't give the details because he's a giant asshole.
He did say that he kidnapped someone from one state and drove a few states away to bury them along the Roku.
Now, this goes along with one of the interviews he gave where they asked him...
They said, are there remains in New York?
And he said, yes. And then they said... Are those remains someone you killed in New York or did you just bury them there?
And he pauses and then he responds, just buried there.
So they're from another state. Okay. The FBI did question him about a missing woman named Deborah Feldman from Hackensack, New Jersey... who went missing April 8, 2009.
But he denied having anything to do with her.
A few weeks later... And actually, relatively recently, like as recently as we can talk about Israel Keys, because there's a fun little twist at the end about Israel Keys.
They pressed him again about Debra because they like laid off it then came back to it.
Yeah. Because they said they would show him a picture of her and he just like reacted weird.
OK. And different than when he reacted to other things like he would pause and be like, yeah, I don't know.
Like, that's not one. But they were like, yeah, I just don't.
This fits too well. So they asked him again, and Keyes suddenly responded, quote, yeah.
I just don't want to talk about it. Oh, shit.
He would do these things whenever they were close.
And when he didn't want to give them too much, like when they would start piecing things together, he would go, yeah, I don't want to talk about that.
And he did that a lot. I hate that. And they would get so close to getting something and he'd go...
Yeah... I'm not gonna talk about that today... And you were like... Motherfucker... Like you just... Just spill... Dumbass... Like you're in jail...
Right. Just give everybody closure. So he said, yeah, I don't want to talk about that.
And when he said this, the agent said, quote, then I'm right about it.
And Keyes paused and then said, Yeah. Oh.
So he basically confirmed, like... Yeah, no, he did.
But I think they just need to connect more stuff about it.
Right. But she's never been found. Oh, that's really sad.
So Israel does acknowledge, this is just interesting. that there is one body that he claimed was ruled an accidental death in the media that is his.
Oh. He also said that he always planned his alibis and such to cover his tracks, but he said there was this one time where he thinks it was a mistake on his part. because the body was recovered and it was labeled an accident and none of his other bodies were recovered except for samantha koenig right So he said, quote, it was kind of the same situation as the couriers.
I just wasn't in a position to get rid of it right away.
So I decided to try to make it look... I mean, it was already gonna be assumed that it was an accident of some sort.
And, uh... My concern was that the body would be found before it had decomposed enough.
So he was planning, I'm going to put it in this area.
It's going to decompose enough that they won't know.
They'll just be like, this is a hiking accident.
Right. You know, but it didn't. Weirdly enough, they did rule it as an accident. pressed him on this he said if the body was found right away then it probably wouldn't have been labeled an accident oh wow His former girlfriend and mother of his child, Tammy, did tell investigators that she remembered a neighbor of theirs dying during a hike, and it was ruled an accident.
Oh, wow. She admitted that she didn't see Israel at all during the time this man disappeared and that she could not provide him an alibi.
Oh. Yep. Shit. This man has not been named.
And in the... FBI case files. So this does seem to connect, but you can't really dig about it because you don't have a name.
Interesting that he killed his neighbor.
Well, maybe killed his neighbor yeah i feel like that wouldn't that wasn't really him yeah that was a weird one too but he admits he feels like that was a mistake okay so Israel also told the FBI that he killed a couple in Washington around October 2001.
But somewhere between October 2001 and 2006.
Okay. So in those five years, he murdered a couple in Washington.
People have poured over like missing couples and all that.
And like they found a few leads. But again, it's hard because...
Unfortunately, if he is doing these things, he's really good at concealing them.
Right. He also told FBI interrogators that he killed people in state and national parks early on as well.
Okay. This makes sense because he has a clear journey, like we said. beginning with being very careful and very good at concealing of his crimes.
And then he started to get sloppy and ended up with the fucking mess that was the Samantha Koenig murder.
Right. again like bundy he said in the beginning it was easy for him to distract himself between murders but it got harder especially when he moved to alaska because he said that just isn't a lot going on wow yeah it's like yeah it got hard because i was really bored all the time because i was bored like literally And apparently it's said in several sources, and by all means, tell me I am wrong because this is not confirmed.
But I'm just saying, people cite this. I'm not saying it is fact.
But... people do say that he was a necrophiliac or he had necrophiliac tendencies, just like Bundy.
So, just saying. All these connections. Special Agent Jolene Godin, one of the lead investigators on the case, she said, and I just thought this was just an interesting note to kind of... and talking about his crimes on that they had a lot of really normal conversations with Keyes and when you listen to the interrogations he does seem like a very normal guy.
I really hate that. Right? Like you hear him talking and you're like, Ew.
Like, you just, he's, like, talking, he's just shooting the shit.
Hate that, hate that, hate that. And they said he would be charming and seemingly easy to speak to.
Like another person I'm not going to mention again.
Ted Bundy. And she says it was only when they started getting into details of the crimes that he got dark.
Like, he would just kind of switch into this mode.
Yeah. And the agents who spoke with him said his demeanor was really... always calm and matter of fact, and quote, he certainly thought he was the smartest guy in the room.
Oh, just like every other serial killer.
Exactly. Such a serial killer personality.
Stupid. Now, Keyes was always a really annoying and tough prisoner to deal with, they said.
Yeah. In spring of 2012, apparently, as he was restrained in a courtroom during a courtroom appearance... he lurched away from the people holding him, and he had to be tackled and tasered by U.S.
Marshals. Jesus. He was also disciplined for making a, quote, pick-type device for opening handcuffs.
He used a paper clip and dental floss, so he's also fucking MacGyver.
So there's that. He's like the evil MacGyver.
Yeah. Let's see. For most of the time that he was in prison, he was classified as Max Max.
Max Max? Max Max. Max Square? Max Max. Which comes with the highest security precautions because they couldn't trust him.
Oh, shit. Two officers escorted him in full restraints any time he left his cell.
Now, on December 1st, 2012... Was a special day, everybody.
Mm-hmm. Sometime after 10, 12 p.m., Israel... scooted himself under his blankets in his cell.
He slashed his wrist with a razor that he had somehow gotten.
Yikes. and used a makeshift noose to strangle himself whoa So on surveillance video, which they have of the cell.
Mm-hmm. You can see that there's movement in his cell until one final jerk at 10.24 p.m.
Woof. He was found dead in his cell the next morning, which stopped all the investigation. into like it didn't stop the investigation but it stopped all the information All the flow of information that they were getting from him.
It just came to a screeching halt. I am mad about that.
So... Yay, he's a little bitch and he's gone.
But... Fuck, now we can't get it from him.
Because now they're just having to use whatever they got from him, which was like... Not much.
Just weird, codey, fucking puzzly quid pro quo pieces.
Bullshit. here and there and they're having to connect things and it's like it could be forever until we know how many people he actually killed.
So... That's the story of Israel Keys. How uplifting.
He was a terrible fucking monster. Uh-huh.
I didn't, you know, there was, of course there are some things I didn't go into like vast detail about, you know.
Why? well and let me let me be the first to say if you are very interested in this case Many of our negative reviews have already plugged to this podcast for them, but...
I'll do it for them, too, because I think it's nice when podcasters plug other podcasters and not negative reviewers plugging other podcasters.
So if you're really interested in the Israel Keys case, honestly go listen to True Crime Bullshit.
It is a 15-episode podcast that goes... deep into israel keys 15 episodes about israel keys we were an overview it's great It's amazing.
It's informative. But I just want to be clear that anybody who was like, if you want the real story, go listen to that.
Yeah, for sure. But we weren't going to spend 15 weeks going on Israel Keys.
Sorry. True crime bullshit. is an investigative podcast that is focusing on one case right we focus on a case a week So you're going to get a little more generalized of an overview.
For real, I'm not being like a salty, sodium-filled bitch.
I am. If you want more about this case, go listen to True Crime Bullshit because I'm serious.
It's a great podcast. It's... engaging the host is amazing he spent years invested in this case So for sure, go over there if you thought this was interesting, because you'll get even more.
And he has hours upon hours of... interrogation footage with Israel keys.
So you can hear like literally like 30 minutes at a time of him talking.
Wow. So definitely go listen to that for sure if you're into this.
I just wanted to plug them because they are a great podcast.
Yeah. So I just wanted to put that out there.
So what we're going to do this week is we are going to do our shout outs for our Patreon, our Patronuses, our beautiful, beautiful lovelies. on our Ted Bundy episode.
So, not this one, not the mini that's coming out right after this one, but...
The Ted Bundy episode where we're talking about the movie, that's coming out this week as well.
You will be getting a shout out. We're going to do a lot more on that one.
Stay tuned for that, you beautiful bags of bones.
And in the meantime... You can follow us on Instagram at Morbid Podcast.
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Shout us out on the Facebook group. Morbid colon A True Crime Podcast.
And I can't say it enough. I'm obsessed with our Facebook group and all the people.
I love you guys. It's my favorite thing ever.
It's great. Also, send us an email, morbidpodcast at gmail.com.
If you feel so inclined, donate to the Patreon. patreon.com slash morbid podcast and if you could go check out the website that my lovely co-host so awesomely designed you can do that at who me Morbidpodcast.com without the who me.
We hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. weird but not so weird that you start to put these like weird kits in like random places and then you don't even know what people you're gonna kill yet you just know where you're gonna kill them and then you find the people to kill and then you really rude about it and then you put makeup on somebody and you sew their eyes open which you really should never do and then you keep their hair and then you you do something else and then you do something else and something else and then you just gotta stop and then everybody finds you and it's over and then you kill yourself don't do that don't keep it that weird Don't do that.
Don't do any of that. Nope. None of it. Thanks for listening.
Thank you so much. Bye. Thank you. If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.
Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music.
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