Episode 600: Winnie Ruth Judd: The Trunk Murderess｜Morbid

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that's wild yeah i wish you guys i didn't see her face she literally went she like pursed her lips and like raised her eyebrows i was like pow crash boom that's all that's all i got i'm still laughing at the the diet coke decoration on my side of the shelf it's not mine i can i know for 100 certainty that i didn't put that there we like you know we we did a big clean sweep of the pod lab and we just like like wanted to clear out all the yuckiness and anything that we needed to get rid of.

We salted the rugs like we said we were gonna.

We organized the bookshelves.

And somehow, and I don't drink diet soda.

I know it's not you.

I'm sorry, Mikey. I think it's you.

Because I didn't do that.

Call them out 2024.

I'm old and I only drink seltzer water.

No, you drink Diet Coke.

And apparently when you're finished with it, you decorate my nice, beautiful sound bath, candle sage palo santo shelf with another sacred thing yeah diet coke i'm gonna leave it there i love that yeah it's who i am that shelf that is who i am candles that's palo santo yeah my passion the sound bowl a big whole thing of black obsidian more candles and an empty bottle of diet diet coke see mikey was just trying to make it more you yeah that's all you you really you uh you jazzed up the shelf succeeded i appreciate you i love it i'm looking like yesterday i was like oh i gotta throw that out today

i'm looking at it i'm like no like i'm gonna leave that there that's not trash maybe you should gild it what is how you gild it in gold gold yeah no no you know she's already she's good as gold as sheena shea would say she's already doesn't even have have her cap wow someday she'll evaporate into this air there you go or maybe not because she's probably just toxic probably aren't we all it's early it is me and elena went to a bar class this morning together and it was fucking crazy i have never felt so uh both dead alive and heaving in my life i'm not joking you i actually did think i was gonna throw

up on my own a little bit wow wow i did not this was this is one i've been going to because i tried to get into my into my fitness routine recently so i've been going early and then ash came for the first time today and it happened to be like a little more of an intense class it wasn't like crazy more intense but it was a little more shut your mouth it wasn't crazy intense that shit rocked my world it was more than normal i will say that no it definitely was yeah it was fun though yeah i would do it again i will you know working on your fitness that's all you can do that's all you can do all you

can do is decorate your shelf the way that you see fit and work on your fitness exactly all right well and tell us a scary story and i can tell you yeah this is a scary judging by the uh title of this one it's it's got some stuff yeah if somehow you are here and you didn't see the title this is uh the story of winnie ruth judd the trunk murderess yeah Yeah, that alone is really, it sucked me in.

Yeah. So Winnie Ruth Judd is in fact the trunk murderess, but before that she was just Winnie Ruth McKinnell.

Yeah. McKinnell. She went by Ruth most of her life.

So instead of calling her Winnie, we're going to be calling her Ruth throughout the story.

Okay. So she was born January 29th, 1905 in Oxford, Indiana.

Her early life was pretty difficult right from the start.

uh after she was born like not too long even after she was born she ended up getting pneumonia like as a newborn oh and when she was four she contracted tuberculosis which obviously affected her throughout pretty much the rest of her life yeah so you don't just shake that one off no she's a sickly child and then obviously kind of just traveled into adulthood like that there's really not a lot of documentation related to her life before she got arrested but she herself did did claim that her early years were pretty happy ones.

Like, even though she was sick a lot, she was still happy.

That's good. In a letter written to her attorney in 1952, she said, My brother was 19 months younger than me, and we were very affectionate toward each other.

My father was one of the most kindly and godly souls.

He believed that everyone had some good in him.

He addressed everyone as my good man and my good woman.

The world would seem brighter just to talk to him.

That's really sweet.

I want someone to say that about me.

I will, someday. Thanks.

The world seems quieter just to talk to her.

That's really nice.

It is. I just also love how people spoke back then.

That's the thing. Like, it's like poetic.

It's so much. It's like people just spoke on such a deeper level about the people that they loved.

Like, because at first I was like, her and her brother were really affectionate toward each other.

Like, is that weird?

But it's like, no, they were just like affectionate.

Yeah. Like, they just like loved each other.

Yeah. Like, that's the thing.

It's like, we look at it from a lens of now where we're like, what the fuck does that mean?

We're jaded as fuck.

And it's like, no, they just talked...

They just talked different.

Like, they explained different things in, like, more flowery prose.

Yes. It's nice. I like it.

And to us, it's a little jarring sometimes.

We're like, what do you mean by that?

Right, but they really just mean, like, I loved them.

I assume. Yeah, that's what they mean.

I couldn't find anything to counter.

I was like, I'm hoping I'm not...

I took my jaded cap off for a second.

I'm like, should I put it back on?

Wait a second. Do I need this?

Wait a minute. Yeah, I don't think you do for this particular segment.

Ruth spoke similarly of her mother, who she described as a kindly Christian woman, a bit timid but a hardworking person, always willing to make a sacrifice for her family and others who needed her services in sickness.

It seems like they're a pretty normal family.

Yeah, it seems pretty lovely.

We're pretty loving, you know?

Yeah. So yeah, it seems like her home life was happy, it was positive.

But other areas of her life were a bit less ordinary.

she said that when she started going to school she really realized pretty quickly that she didn't fit in with the other kids she was brought up in a really rigid religious household so she had never gone to carnival she had never gone to like a baseball game a sports event couldn't go to movies she really couldn't participate in any of the social activities that kids her age would have been engaging in at that point she wrote my mother did not think these things were were wrong but our church did not approve of it so it wasn't so much like the parent like i think at home things were a little more

happy and positive but the parents like lived by the church's teachings and said like well we won't go to movies and we won't enjoy those things but like it wasn't like sit down and read the bible and play yeah it's like we have a loving home but it's it doesn't sound like it's a fun home yeah no i don't think there was a lot of room for fun and that limited socialization and lack of experience without with really anything outside of her religious world it would go on to play an important role in her adult life especially when it related to her romantic relationships because sometimes when it's

like overly rigid yeah your romantic relationships get a little weird yeah other things get a little weird a little it's gotta leak out somewhere you know so in 1924 when she was 19 years old ruth married william judd a doctor and world war one veteran with uh he was more than 20 years her senior so a little bit old all right all right having grown up in a loving household ruth had a lot of ideas about what marriage should be but she quickly learned uh life as mrs william judd was not going to be anything like her parents happy marriage author janna i think it's bombers bach uh she wrote the trunk

murderous said forget the image of a nice family doctor who settled in a community supplying applying his wife with a home and respectability.

Unfortunately, that's not what was going to happen at all.

Judd was addicted to morphine, which may have actually been the result of injuries that he sustained during the war.

But because his addiction was so strong, he struggled to find and to keep steady work.

After their wedding in 1924, they packed up everything they owned and decided to move to Mexico, where William started working for an American mining company, which I think we We talked about mining in one of my last episodes.

It was like a, I mean, he was a doctor.

Damn. And I think just because of his addiction, he couldn't really swing it anymore.

Like, mining was like a last stinch, kind of.

Seriously. Like, it was the last job you were really going to go for.

So at first, the Judd's marriage was a happy one.

Like, in the beginning, it seemed pretty all right.

And Ruth was writing letters home telling her parents that she was enjoying Mexico.

The people were so nice.

She was working on learning how to speak Spanish.

And that happiness seemed to last a few years and Ruth eventually became pregnant.

But unfortunately, in 1927, her tuberculosis got worse and she had to be hospitalized for a short period.

And during that period, she lost the baby.

Oh, that's sad. And she and William decided that her health was probably too poor for her to really ever carry a child.

It just didn't seem like something that was going to be likely.

Yeah. So from there, things really only got worse because That's a big blow, obviously.

If you think you want to have children and then one day you realize it's probably not the best idea, I can't imagine how that would feel.

Yeah, that's a tough blow.

So Ruth returned to Mexico, but the humid climate of the region seemed to make her TB worse, so she was never in good health while they were there.

And to make matters worse, Judd's addiction had finally caught up with him and he got fired from his mining job, which caused even more stress and really further strained their already fragile relationship.

In letters home to her parents, Ruth never mentioned Judd's addiction problems, never mentioned their marital troubles or really how unhappy she'd become.

Instead, her letters were, quote, always cheery, always filled with the promise that the setbacks would be overcome.

It was very positive.

Yeah, sticking it out.

And the lack of her sharing her frustrations was probably an attempt to keep her family from finding out that her husband was uh not really a successful doctor and she was uh not really content with life but the truth was ruth and william hadn't been happy for quite some time by this point and ruth had grown really tired of making excuses and lying to her family yeah so in 1930 they decided to informally separate with ruth moving to phoenix arizona where she She hoped the dry climate would help improve her TB.

At the time, this was pretty risky.

It's 1930. She's a woman.

She has no income. She really doesn't know anybody in the area.

And she didn't have a ton of skills that were going to help her find a job.

But luckily, she was able to find a job as a medical secretary at the, I think it's Grunow Clinic, after she lied in her interview and assured her new employer that she had experience as a typist. She did not.

She did not. But she was like, I can do it.

Yeah. Her lie became apparent rather quickly.

They were like, I don't think you know what you're doing.

And she just, like, couldn't keep up with the pace or anything.

But her boss liked her so much, just thought, like, she was such a nice person that he was like, I'm going to bear with you, and you'll learn how to do this.

We're going to stick this up.

Yeah. So her position required her to work six days a week, and she was paid $75 a month, which is not a lot.

No. Like I said, the salary was small.

and after paying her rent and her other expenses she sent what was whatever was left over to her husband at that point he had moved to california looking for a new job so with little free time and essentially no money ruth treasured the time that she spent with her new best friends agnes and leroy who went by ann and her roommate hedvig sammy samuelson they were co uh sammy was a co -worker from the clinic ann and sammy had been friends for a while and then all three women bonded did over having moved to arizona around the same time and trying to make it on their own with no man to support them

yeah so they were like we're girly pops we're out here let's go new in town and we're getting it done we're new in town yeah so not long after ann and sammy arrived in phoenix william judd joined his wife in arizona and for a time things were good again william got along with ruth's new friends and the four of them hung out a lot as a group at one another's apartments disruptments.

But unfortunately, the good times didn't last really long.

Judd's addiction problems were just as bad as they had been, if not worse.

And his inability to find steady work meant that he was gone for a lot of the time as he was looking for work in other places.

Yeah. And at the same time, things had actually started to take a downturn for Ruth's friends.

Like Ruth, Sammy had chosen Phoenix in the hope that the climate would improve her tuberculosis.

sclerosis but by late spring her condition had gotten worse and she had to make the decision to enter a sanitarium in portland oregon for treatment i said oregon you heard it oregon oregon i said it correctly not like not to be confused with the oregon trail because that's what it is oregon oregon oregon oregon anyway oregon don't worry just kidding unable to maintain her job and support sammy and made the decision to leave her job and travel with her friend to oregon so sammy and ann are now in oregon for a little bit in august of 1931 sammy got discharged from that sanitarium and she and ann

moved back to phoenix so they were all reunited again so it's like a little i think it was like about a year yeah maybe like nine months to a year yeah uh so now without jobs or income ruth offered to move in with them and the three shared a small pretty cramped apartment they had been the best of friends for months but there's a big difference between hanging out together when you want to and having to be together all the fucking time and sharing a living space and a very small one at that that's a very different situation and also with stress of like having no money and a lot of things going

on in your personal life so before long they started having what one friend described as quote -unquote petty arguments over over everything.

Cool. Yay. Fun. Also, three girls doesn't usually work out.

Yeah. In my experience, three is not the best number for friendships.

Yeah. With girls specifically.

Yeah, I was going to say that I can speak from that point of view too.

Like, it's never, that's a tough one.

It can work. Like, I'm not saying it never works, but.

But it has the, it has the more of a tendency to to go awry.

Because one person ends up feeling left out a lot of times.

And like they say, three is a crowd.

Three is a crowd. But fortunately, in early October, Anne managed to get her job back at the clinic and Ruth happily moved out of the apartment and found her own place just a few blocks away.

In a letter to her fiance sent in late September, Anne wrote, Ruth is leaving us in a few days.

It really hasn't worked out so well having the three of us.

We are very fond of her and she's a sweet girl.

But three just seems to be a wrong number when one is used to living by by oneself, and just one other very congenial one.

So when William was in town, the four friends tended to socialize as a group.

Like I said, they got along really well.

When he was away, though, the three friends, all really young, all very beautiful women, were known to throw parties that were attended by large numbers of businessmen, married and unmarried.

Oh! It's scandal! That is scandal waiting to happen.

It sure is. Journalist Dawn Deirdre, I think it is, said in this town at the time this is my favorite quote of this entire thing are you guys ready he said hanky was the name and panky was the game shut the fuck up i will never recover that's an amazing quote it's my favorite quote i think in a case ever hanky was the name and panky was the game i feel like i see some like old gumshoe like detective with a big old cigar hanging out out of his mouth smoking yeah standing on in like an alleyway with like a one beam of light coming down from a from a street light yes and this fog rolling through

yeah he says hanky was the gay what was it hanky was the name and hanky was the game wow it's my favorite thing ever i love that a lot i love it so much so among the more popular and uh more like regular of their party guests was uh jack happy jack hollering oh they called him happy jack happy jack oh i saw a face there he might have been a douche i don't know oh no yeah he was a phoenix area businessman he was in his 40s he lavished the three friends with gifts he was just like you know happy jack just giving you gifts showing up at your party so he's like happy time jack yes kind of kind of things

more like that because in addition to being what one friend described as a quote about as prominent of a man as you'd find in phoenix in those days he was also married and a father of three children but that rarely stopped him from spending his nights in the company of other women like aside from his wife yeah yeah i kind of got that idea yeah so unknown to ann sammy and william ruth had actually met happy jack in early january and they had been carrying on a clandestine affair since then.

Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Things escalated quickly.

Yeah, apparently. Yeah.

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According to Jana Bombersbach, Ruth, quote, wanted to get pregnant by Halloran, and he pledged to her that regardless of his other flirtation, she was the only one he wanted.

But despite what he told her, Ruth knew Jack had also been spending time with Ann and Sammy, and he had been supplying their parties with alcohol.

hall so she had reason to devote to doubt his devotion to her she also knew that he'd been giving uh ann and sammy some money and she also was like seeing him flirt with them and other people at their parties shamelessly yeah constantly and while they may not have known the extent of jack and ruth's relationship sammy and ann definitely realized that she captured a certain amount of his attention whenever they were together so basically everybody's just suspicious suspicious of everybody at this point that makes sense yeah and when it came to jack hollerin they all had reason to be jealous of each

other of course so it's a mess yeah that's i was gonna say this is just a this is so messy and it escalates so quickly like so quickly it usually does yeah on the night of october 16th 1931 ann and sammy called ruth and they were like hey um do you want to come over for dinner but since she had planned a date with jack she declined and said She just had lots of work to catch up on.

Okay. Yeah. Then several hours passed, and she still hadn't heard from Jack, who she was supposed to have a date with.

So she's, like, pissed off.

She's annoyed. She's irritated.

So rather than, you know, just stay at her apartment and wait for him, she was like, you know, you know what?

I'm going to go take Ann and Sammy up on their invitation.

Good for her. Yeah.

And she figured that if Jack did end up showing up, she would be sending the message that she wasn't the kind of gal who was just going to sit around and wait for him.

No, all the guys know it wouldn't be right to leave your best girl home on a Saturday night.

What's that from? The Beach Boys.

Look, listen to you.

Listen to you. So she arrived at Anne and Sammy's apartment a little after 930 that night.

And she's like, oh, I finished all my work sooner than I expected.

They're like, OK. And she's like, yeah, I just figured I would take you up on your invitation.

So they sat up. They had dinner together.

You know, they're shooting the shit, gossiping, girls just being girls.

but since anne and ruth had to work the next day they decided to call it a night a little before midnight they said by that time the trolley had stopped running though and ruth would have had to walk home so they just like uh sammy and anne were like no you shouldn't walk home in the middle of the night why don't you stay on the couch yeah she was like yeah that's that's a good plan now what happened next has been a matter of debate for decades and even ruth herself has given various slightly different explanations like depending on when she tells the story So it's kind of unclear what exactly

happened between the three of them.

In the statement that Ruth would give less than a week later, she claimed, I had gone to their girl's home to remonstrate with Miss Samuelson, Sammy, for some nasty things she said about Miss Leroy.

Miss Samuelson got a hold of a gun and shot me in the left hand.

I struggled with her and the gun fell.

Miss Leroy grabbed an ironing board and started to strike me over the head with it.

In the struggle, I got hold of the gun and Sammy got shot.

miss leroy was still coming at me with the ironing board and so i had to shoot her i told you escalated quickly i feel like it just was like ba -bam like just whoa yeah a gun is now involved in yeah in an ironing board and for some reason the notion of like bopping someone over the head with an ironing board sounds funny in theory yes and then when And then when you actually think about it, you're like, damn, that would hurt.

Like, that is gnarly.

So I'm like, damn, that would be scary.

Because at first, I was like, that's a silly image of somebody, like, bopping someone with an ironing board. But then I'm like, no, that's a little scary, actually.

Because it's really just like metal. Yeah.

It's not even like a cushion on top.

It's like a board. Yeah.

I think it's just like.

And it's like somebody's like slamming you with an ironing board. That's crazy.

Who knows if that really happened.

Damn, I know. No, because there was another version of the incident where Ruth said that she and Sammy got into a heated argument and Sammy had, quote, come at her with a gun in the kitchen.

And then in order to defend herself, Ruth said that she grabbed a bread knife off the counter and stabbed Sammy.

And then she ended up shooting her while they were both struggling on the floor for the gun.

And then she said and tried to break up the fight by hitting her with the ironing board. So that's why she shot her next.

Well, and here's the thing.

the iron back to the ironing board you don't shoot someone that's coming at you with an ironing board no you don't bring a gun to an ironing board fight like you just don't that's well known that's wild behavior like that's reckless something in her i think just snapped it certainly seems that way and then because there's no justification here that i'm seeing yeah and i I don't mean like snapped as like, I don't know if she, there ends up being like this whole debate over whether she's insane, like criminally or not.

Yeah. And I don't know that she is or isn't like when you find just be like snapped as in like, like the TV show snapped.

Yeah. Like she'd come to a point where she couldn't take it anymore.

She snapped. Not that she snapped from reality.

Right. Exactly. Thank you.

Thank you. I don't know.

I'm interested to see what you think because things escalate even more from here to the the point where you're just like but it goes on for so long that you're like well it's not just a moment where where she snapped out of reality for a second and like lost it right it feels like there's probably more that's gonna happen here that i'm gonna be like um considering like a trunk yeah title yeah the trunk is coming up yeah yeah that's the thing so so that she has her stories she has a couple different versions of them they're all pretty similar but there's just just like little aspects that change

from time to time. The state, meanwhile, would present a very different version of events during trial.

In their version, all three women were arguing over Jack Holleran.

And after Anne and Sammy had gone to bed, the prosecution claimed that Ruth snuck into their bedrooms and shot each one of them in the head, shooting Anne first. That's cold -blooded.

And then they said when Sammy heard the gunshot, she woke up and threw her hand out in a defensive gesture, and that's why she had a bullet hole in her hand.

That makes sense. And they said that was quickly followed by the fatal gunshot to her head.

Which would make sense because you get shot through the hand and then you're like reeling from getting shot in the hand.

It leaves you vulnerable to a shot in the head.

And you're sleeping in bed.

Yeah, you've just woken up.

Already vulnerable, you know.

According to Ruth's biographer, Jana Bombersbach, the most likely account of the murders is kind of like an amalgamation of Ruth's version of events.

but with the inclusion of a few key details that she would later describe in a letter she was going to send to her husband william because remember she's still married to william i forgot yeah in the letter ruth claimed that she did stay the night at anne and sammy's apartment and then the next day they were sitting in the living room and an argument broke out days before that ruth had set jack up on a date with a woman that she knew through the clinic but she knew that this woman had syphilis so she was telling them that and whether the comment was made jokingly or out of jealousy sammy threatened

to tell jack that ruth had knowingly set him up with a woman who had syphilis and allegedly she told her when i tell them you associate with and introduce them to girls who have syphilis he won't have anything to do with you damn so shit got like This got so messy.

Really messy. That's the only way you can describe it.

It's just like messy.

Messy. Yeah. Like I'm looking at this and I'm like, I would want to be 100 miles away from this situation.

And if that's the truth, how fucked up?

Like you can't be doing that syphilis is a serious fucking disease.

Yeah, absolutely it is.

Come on. Damn. And the thing is, if Jack Holleran had found out about Ruth wanting to set him up with somebody that had syphilis out of in like a vengeful spirit, you know?

Well, and not, like, not telling him.

Yeah, it was not going to be a consensual thing.

Yeah, that would be non -consensual if he didn't know.

And she was, like, definitely, like, she wasn't going to tell him because this whole thing was like he had fucked her over.

Yeah, so she was like, ha ha.

So she was like, I'll get you.

It's like, damn, that feels not proportionate.

Agreed. But, yeah, so if he had found out, he would obviously think pretty poorly of Ruth and their relationship and end things.

Yeah. which would jeopardize everything that she had hoped for with her future with jack so in a moment of anger ruth said sammy i'll shoot you if you tell that and in response sammy went into the other room returned with the gun and pointed it in a threatening gesture and reacting without thinking ruth grabbed the barrel of the gun and it went off bullet grazed ruth's hand and then the pain from the bullet wound and the shock from the sound of the gunshot that sent ruth out of her chair she knocked sammy to the ground grabbed that bread knife and stabbed her in the process and then she managed

to get the gun away from sammy and quickly killed her two closest friends so this is like another version of the events that may or may not be true there's like 16 up until this point there's i think there might even be more bombers bach believes ruth had planned to send because that all of what i just said was those were details laid out in the letter that ruth was planning to send to william and bombers bach believes that Ruth planned to send this letter to her husband in order to explain what had happened and then she was possibly going to take her own life but the letter never made it to William

and would eventually be used against her in court.

Eek. Yeah Bombers Bach said she would eventually tell this story many times all of them after she'd been convicted of murder but she would always tell this same story.

So she told like all these different versions but then when she was convicted that last one is the story that she stuck with and it's the one that she penned to her husband like right after everything happened so i tend to believe this one yeah out of all of them i could yeah that does make sense i i believe it to a degree yeah you know after shooting both women and this is where it gets really dark just so everybody knows uh ruth moved each back into their beds cleaned up the best she could and then went to work for the day oh just went to work Yep.

And later that afternoon, after she was finished with her shift, she went back to the apartment and in Sammy's apartment and loaded both bodies into Anne's steamer trunk and had it moved from their apartment to her own where she dismembered Sammy's body, placing her head, torso and lower legs into the smaller shipping trunk.

And her remaining body parts went into a smaller suitcase and a hat box.

Damn. Worried that she would be caught and wanting to distance herself from the crime scene, on the morning of October 18th, she booked a ticket to California on the Golden State Limited, which was a railroad that went from Phoenix to L .A.

And she checked the trunks with the baggage handlers at the station.

Holy shit. So she has two bodies dismembered in multiple trunks and checks her luggage, which contains two dismembered bodies.

She is wily. Wily. That is wily.

That's a bold move.

The boldest, one might say.

So the next day, the Golden State Limited pulled into the station in LA, where the baggage handler, H .J.

Maps, noticed a strong odor and saw, quote, what he believed to be blood leaking from one of these trunks.

So he goes and gets his supervisor, Arthur Anderson, and he's like, hey, I think that—this is just wild what he thought was in there.

It's like this trunk is bleeding.

He said, I think this trunk might have some contraband meat in it.

I mean, okay. I don't know a lot about what people were smuggling throughout the country in the 1930s, but I will tell you I didn't know that there was contraband meat.

i just love that that is the that's the first thought yeah i also feel like that'd be a really good band name contraband we are contraband me yeah that is a good band name when you yell it you're right so anderson set the luggage aside and was like oh you know what when like the owner gets off the train we'll ask what the fuck is going on here but when they found ruth she just told them she didn't have the keys but that she would quote phone her husband and have him bring them to the baggage station oh okay and they're like yeah totally so you're just traveling with luggage that you don't have the keys

to like that's interesting that makes sense okay so they waited and she used the phone at the baggage counter to make that call but she claimed she got no response and she said she'd have to drive downtown to locate her husband but after slipping away into a crowd she jumped into a waiting car of her brother the waiting car of her brother burton mckinnell and they just sped off leaving the bags there so she called her brother and was like you need to pick me up in la and he was sitting there waiting for her and she was able to get away holy shit and we and left the bags and left the bag so concerned

about the contents of these trunks and they're suspicious as fuck owner anderson notified the lapd and they forced the locks open on the trunks obviously of course revealing the horrific contents inside in addition to the bodies contained within the trunks detectives also found the women's purses which allowed them to identify both bodies as sammy and annie and and excuse me she just put their identity like just just putting ids with them just put their purses in there in case you need with their identification wow i was like why didn't you just like i'm glad that you didn't but but why don't

you just leave their purses at home?

But like, damn, you really just gave it to them.

Because also that would have made it look like they had like disappeared.

Exactly. But I'm glad you didn't think that so thoroughly.

But I'm glad she was not thinking that.

Yikes. Wow. They also, she put everything in these suitcases.

They also found the spent shell casings from the .25 caliber pistol that was used to kill both women in their purses.

She's like, here's their IDs and the murder weapon, essentially.

Oh, yeah. The murder weapon as well.

Oh, the actual murder weapon.

or like not the murder weapon but something that was used in the murder the green handled bread knife that ruth had stabbed sammy with was also in the trunks wow the evidence inside was uh also covered in bloody fingerprints which investigators assumed would probably be a match for the trunks owner once she was located they were like you know what i'm gonna go out on a limb and say yeah yeah i'm gonna say as soon as we get her i feel like these fingerprints might match match most importantly though somebody had managed to write down the license plate number of the car that ruth had escaped in and a day

later her brother burton was found and arrested but still no ruthie damn in an interview with police burton insisted he didn't know where the hell his sister was and he didn't know anything about the bodies in the trunks he's like she called me man i just came i just came to pick her up he's like i'm just that fucking sucker who has to pick somebody up from the train station i'm that guy in the town who says who's caught we take it i don't know anything about it just i'll pick you up he said i don't know why she did it if she did it she must have been insane according to him ruth had met him on the college

campus shortly after she arrived in california and asked him for a ride he said she said she wanted me to pick up her trunks which she had brought from phoenix arizona and throw them in the ocean i asked her why she wanted me to do such a strange thing but she got angry and said the less i knew the better off i'd be baby um that's when you should i mean that is a police moment like that's when you're when you somebody tells you please pick up those trunks and throw them away from and throw them in the ocean and when you say like why would why would i throw your trunks i don't want to tell they

say like it's probably best that you not know a lot about it don't touch those trunks dude don't touch those trunks you gotta you gotta call someone you just wipe your hands in that that situation you walk the other way you call someone and you say they said it's the best the less I know the better yeah so I'm gonna stay with that but I'm gonna pass this on to you exactly exactly but this poor guy he's like this is my sister I don't know what the fuck I know that's really hard like that's a shit position yeah I keep forgetting it's her actual brother yeah exactly but still I mean but like I would do

a lot of shit for you I'm not throwing shit in the ocean for you bodies in the ocean yeah and I'm I'm way too conspicuous yeah so after the baggage chandlers at the station started questioning them about the contents of the trunks burton said he also became suspicious and insisted that they leave the station he said outside in the car i opened her valise which i think is a is the trunk okay he said what i saw nearly made me faint nearly drove me nearly drove me insane and he was referring to the portion of sammy's body that ruth had put in the suitcase when it didn't fit in the trunk oh my god

so there is the trunks at At the station.

And she has her suitcase?

But she has her suitcase, which has part of Sammy's body.

Part of Sammy's body in the suitcase?

Yes. My, geez. Yeah.

He said, I knew then what was wrong, why she acted so strange.

He claimed he drove her downtown and gave her $5 and then dropped her off in the middle of like a very busy LA street.

And that was the last time he had seen her.

But he said, I hope she gets away.

She was forced to do it.

I know. The poor kid.

Damn, that's some brother shit.

Yeah. Like, wow. Hey there, my weird weirdos.

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So while the police combed the city looking for Ruth, the press had managed to gather a ton of information on the victims, the suspected killer and a number of friends and family members, all in like a pretty short amount of time, like a surprisingly short amount of time.

Well, she wasn't really super careful.

No, she definitely wasn't.

But still, I was like, wow, you guys got a lot.

But the most significant finding was the letter that Ruth had supposedly written William after the murders, where she disclosed pretty much all the details of the crime as well as letters written back and forth between Ruth and William.

Based on what little they had learned from investigators most press figured out that there was not only marital trouble between Ruth and her husband but also they were like yeah we're pretty sure she was seeing another guy.

The Tucson Citizen among others reported that the county attorney from Phoenix Lloyd Andrews speculated that quote a woman of Mrs. Judd's stature could not have committed the slayings and packed the bodies into the trunk alone and therefore she must have had an accomplice.

So now people are starting to think somebody did this with her.

You'd be surprised.

He continued on. It would be foolish considering all we have learned to go on the theory Mrs. Judd alone was responsible for these slayings.

She's a woman of slight build and it would have been impossible for her alone to have handled these bodies.

There's little doubt a man was involved in the packing of the trunks.

I mean you'd be surprised what you do in a desperate situation exactly regardless of how big or small you are right agreed so in an attempt to distance his own self from this crime and from the innuendos and rumors appearing in the press that she had some help William Judd reached out to her husband reached out to a reporter from the LA Times to comment he said I wish the police would accede to my wishes and permit me and her brother to start in the hunt i believe that my wife would find me in some way and then we could start to unravel this appalling mystery honestly good for william he's just

like fuck that he's like i have nothing to do with this and actually i'd like to help you find her so we could figure out what the fuck happened here he also refuted reports in the press that his marriage was in trouble or that he and ruth had been experiencing any discord in the relationship he said my wife is the quiet refined type there's There's nothing vicious or criminal in her makeup and we never quarreled except the usual spats between husband and wife.

Oof. I'm like, that's not necessarily true.

Oof. She moved all the way to Phoenix because things were so bad.

Yeah, and I forgot how bad it was.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He didn't know about Jack.

It doesn't sound until he did know about Jack.

Until he did know. But they did have issues.

Yeah. But when it came to whether Ruth had murdered Sammy and Ann, he rejected the theory entirely.

He said, I know she's mixed up in some way, but she's too frail too small and too weak to have committed these deeds unaided.

She did commit them alone.

Like, spoiler alert, she did.

She never named another accomplice.

Don't discount just based on how somebody's stature.

Yeah, they never found anything, any evidence to point that it was anybody else other than her.

So while the press quickly built a strong case against Ruth and her unnamed accomplice, hundreds of LAPD officers were fanning out across the city in what the LA Times were calling, quote, the greatest police hunt in the history of the West. Damn.

Which I love. That was really intense.

Yeah. According to the Times, police searched a small cabin owned by Burton McKinnell, where they found, quote, two pieces of cream pie and four sandwiches had been brought there.

Two days earlier, they said, leading them to believe that the location was being used as some kind of hideout.

I was like, or the guy just really likes pie and sandwiches.

I mean, I'd be in trouble if that's what they're looking for.

I was literally just going to say I'd be screwed. I'm like, you looking for snacks?

Because I got a lot of trouble.

But the cabin went under heavy surveillance and Ruth never returned.

So he might have just been a hungry guy.

He just liked cream pies.

Or she might have been there at one point and he was like, have a pie.

But between the time the bodies were discovered at the train station and the day Ruth was arrested, residents of Los Angeles and readers around the country probably were terrified of some maniacal butcher running around on the loose and possibly hunting for more victims. Yeah, because you don't know what happened here.

No, exactly. And remember, this is in the 1930s, so it's really hard for people to think that a woman could do this.

To even fathom this, yeah.

Even in 1960, when we talked about the Barbara Mackle case and Ruth was involved, a different Ruth, people were like, no way, she's too pretty and she's a woman.

Yeah, exactly. So people just couldn't believe it.

Too pretty. Too pretty.

And actually, this Ruth was also pretty, and it played into the case.

mm -hmm so after burton dropped ruth off downtown on the evening of the 19th she made her way to the lavena sanitarium which she was previous she was familiar with from a previous stay to her surprise nobody stopped or questioned her when she walked in so she found an unoccupied room and laid down on the bed later she said i went to bed there and i remember nothing else for four days i love that she was just able to waltz in there and just lay in a bed she just walked into a hospital and laid in a bed for four days yeah like like okay hello we were doing okay i guess yeah i guess so on the morning

of october 23rd she left the sanitarium and placed a call to a doctor that she knew at another area sanitarium asking if he would be able to mail the letter that she had written to william but the doctor was like no ruth and i know that they're looking you need to turn yourself in yeah i'm not playing any part in this good for that doctor so instead she walked around the city for a while until she overheard a woman reading an article from the paper and she heard the woman say her husband wants her to call this number like they were talking about wow this woman yeah so she found a copy of the newspaper

that the woman was reading and she called the number that william had given to the reporters she said immediately i called that number and my husband answered in spanish and told me to meet him at the biltmore theater her.

When they arrived she found her husband in the company of another man and she found out that he was the attorney that William had hired to represent her.

Damn. So they both convinced her to turn herself in to the police and together they made arrangements for her to surrender at a nearby funeral parlor.

Interesting. I'm not sure what the point of that was.

To make it really intense and theatrical.

I guess so. And it was on the condition that she immediately be submitted for psychiatric evaluation.

So a little past 6pm LAPD officers arrested Ruth at the Alvarez and Moore funeral home just a few blocks from the Hall of Justice.

Whatever condition she had put on her surrender were not honored.

And instead of being taken to a local psychiatric hospital she was taken immediately to an interrogation room.

Where they were like what the fuck?

They might not have thought she was insane at the time but most people were surprised by her appearance when she was taken taken out of custody they like i said like they're picturing like this maniacal butcher like dangerous psychopath yeah but what they found was a very small frail woman who looked disheveled confused and in real bad need of a shower and clean clothes i love that they're like and she stunk they were like she was smelly and she looked like shit her hair looked a mess which also it didn't there's pictures of her surrendering and she looks fucking great i was like well shit what what would anyone

think of me on any given day?

I'm not even surrendering ever.

Capture me going to the local coffee shop and I'll look like I need to surrender to something.

I've been on the lamb.

It's the yam. It's the yam, excuse me.

I've been on the sweet potato for a few days.

Exactly. But in her confession, Ruth told the version of the story where she went to Sammy and Anne's home to confront Sammy about, quote unquote, some nasty things she had said about Anne and then a conflict escalated and she ended up shooting both of them.

And with her face buried in her hand, she just kept repeating, I had to shoot her, I had to shoot her.

She just kept saying it.

When the bodies were discovered at the train station, though, detectives and the district attorney's office had assumed that they had a pretty easy case before them, as long as they could capture the killer.

If even half of what the press was reporting turned out to be true, this murder was motivated by jealousy, and there was a grim evidence found in possession of the killer yeah but the confession threw a wrench into their plans for like this open shut case because ruth didn't deny killing sammy and anne but she claimed that she had done it in self -defense yeah that's gonna be a problem for them yeah completely different from first degree murder and in addition to that there was scratches on her arms and face and the member she had been shot in the hand as well so the bullet had that literally lodged in her

hand and it had become gangrenous.

So that suggested that there may have been some truth to what she was saying.

That would make me second guess.

If there's like actual wounds on her and she's claiming self -defense, how do you get away from that?

And especially back then too.

I mean, that's a pretty good defense.

Pretty good case. So later that evening, detectives got a hold of the letter that Ruth had planned to send to William before tearing it up and leaving it behind in an empty store on the night that she arrived in California.

I don't know how they were able to find this.

Oh, Jesus. But the letter, which Ruth denied she ever wrote, contained a description of the incident where they fought over Jack, who Ruth claimed knew all about the murders.

Oh, no. Which fueled the accomplice theory.

Yep. The letter said, it was horrible packing those things.

As I did it, I kept saying, i've got to got to or i'll be hung i've got to go i've got to in her statement to the press after her arrest she exclaimed i am not a fugitive from justice and i am not a criminal i did the only thing any decent woman would do um i fought for my life and i'm fighting for it now because i am very ill um i like to consider myself a decent woman and i don't think i'd do any of that shit this This has got me second guessing because I'm like, I don't know.

I don't think I'd do that.

Maybe I don't want to call myself a decent woman.

I don't know. I'm like, you are in fact a criminal.

What a thing to say.

Yep. I did what any decent woman would do.

We all say, huh? What?

No. No? Not me? She doesn't speak for us.

I think you could have done a lot better things.

I just met with the Coalition of Decent Women and they agree.

She does not speak for us.

They said, ugh, no. They said, no. They said she's always trying to get herself in this club.

Yeah, they said, no, no, no. we keep saying no thanks.

Eek. Now, despite her efforts to fight extradition, she was returned to Phoenix on October 30th, where nearly 3 ,000 people were waiting to catch a glimpse of what the press had named the trunk murderess.

Damn. Later that day, County Attorney Andrews announced to the press that he intended to bring the case to trial quickly, and he had every intention of pursuing the death penalty.

He told the reporters he was willing to try Ruth separately for each murder, and he continued by saying, Thus, if she is acquitted on a charge of murdering one of the women, she will then be tried on the other charge.

Whoa. So, he meant business.

He was like, you're not getting out of this.

Yeah, no. And it turned out that he was true to his word. Not long after she got back to Phoenix, Ruth was indicted for the murders and a trial date was set for January.

In the meantime, the press and the Phoenix police continued digging into Ruth's story, looking into her personal life.

They were just determined to figure out which version of the murder was the accurate one.

Ruth took some advice from her lawyer, though, and decided to stop speaking to the press and the police since she was arrested.

And instead, she insisted that she acted alone in the murders and the dismemberment of Sammy and Ann.

Now, some of the comments that she made previously, though, only strengthened speculation that she had an accomplice in either one or both of these acts.

In late November, she finally sat down with a psychiatrist, Dr. Joseph Catton, and for the first time, she spoke on record about Happy Jack there.

According to Catton, quote, she showed scorn for Jack Halloran, stating that he was acting as do the rest of men.

He had forsaken her.

He would not raise a finger to help her, even though she may be hanged.

Damn. So she was making it sound like he had helped her in some way, but he was going to let her take the rap for us.

Yeah, he was going to let her hang for it.

Yeah. Wow. Years later, it would become clear that since her arrest, she had been covering up for two men, but not for the reasons that most people expected.

Knowing that she'd be arrested, she concocted the first story about confronting Sammy over the nasty things that she said about Anne.

This was intended to cover up her affair with Jack Holleran, which she figured would destroy his reputation and devastate her own husband.

Yeah, I wondered if that was the reason for that one.

Yeah, that's why she had lied.

In her interviews with Dr. Catten, Ruth explained that there never would have been a case against her if it hadn't been for Jack Halloran, though.

She felt that if she hadn't engaged in this affair with Halloran, that there would never have been an argument with her friends and nobody would have ever ended up dead.

Wow, that's so fucked up.

So that was the role he played.

He didn't help her.

It was just that because of the affair, they got in this fight.

And if it was never happened in the first place, they wouldn't be fighting over this thing and it never would have escalated.

Exactly. Exactly. It all came down to jealousy and like really cattiness.

So it's like he didn't do anything except for have an affair with this guy.

Yeah. He was just like a shitty dude.

Yeah. You know. This revelation didn't change the outcome for Sammy and Ann though, but it did offer some explanations as to why her story had changed several times depending on who she was talking to.

If Ruth believed that Jack had abandoned her in November though, she had completely changed her opinion by mid -January, just before her trial was about to begin.

She told Dr. Catton, jack holloran still loves me and always has oh no she was completely certain that he was going to come through with her in his defense or in her defense excuse me when catten asked why she had such a big change of heart she said he has sent word to me in jail here that he still loves me and that makes things different he would come up to see me if he could but you know as well as i do he can't do that because there's a warrant out for his arrest wow it was clear to dr catten that ruth had fallen for whatever jack hollering had told her yep uh there was no warrant out for his arrest

and whatever he told her was probably just an excuse to keep distance between himself and her man yeah but on the verge of trial she remained committed to the idea that should things not go in her favor jack would come to her rescue he would offer some kind of testimony that would explain everything and she would be acquitted which is really sad yeah that's that's some some serious delulu.

That's the thing. I don't think she's criminally insane, but I definitely think she's a very mentally ill woman.

There's something off here.

Yeah. That kind of delusion is, you can understand it to a point, but then it comes to like, there's more here.

Yeah, I agree. I don't know what it is, but there's more here, it feels like.

That's the thing, exactly.

So, the trial began on January 21st, 1932 in Phoenix, Arizona.

in his opening statement lloyd andrews laid out the state's case for the jury according to him ruth's jealousy and fears over losing her lover jack and her husband had motivated her to murder the only two people who knew the truth about her relationship with jack hollering or at the very least suspected it on the night of the murder she got to her friend's home around 10 30 after the two had gone to sleep she snuck into the room and after quickly entering the bedroom she pressed the revolver to anne's head and pulled the trigger killing her immediately the sound of the gunshot they said woke sammy

who threw up a hand either in protest or protection which explained how she got that gunshot wound through her hand and then after shooting her in the hand she ruth pointed the gun at her head and killed her instantly yeah our uh andrews argued that this was supported by the statements taken from the girls neighbors who recalled hearing gunshots right around 10 30 p .m But when they looked out the window, Sammy and Anne's home seemed like it was dark and quiet.

So they didn't really think anything.

And it was also supported by the so -called drain letter where Ruth confessed the murder to her husband with just slightly different details.

While the accuracy of the details were in question, a handwriting analysis did confirm that the handwriting matched Ruth's and that she had written the letter.

Now, among the first witnesses called by the prosecution was Dr. Catton, who was there to testify on Ruth's sanity or lack thereof.

However, before he even reached the witness stand, Ruth started shouting at him and demanding that he leave the room.

She screamed, get out of here.

I won't have you near me.

Seemingly angry that Dr. Catton had made statements about her to the prosecutor and the press, she jumped out of her chair and continued on saying, you talked about me.

I won't have it. you stay away from me in the middle of her trial middle of her trial which again I feel like there's something yeah because it didn't seem like she was acting like like this is over the top behavior but it didn't seem like it was like a farce you know like it was actually like genuinely happened yeah so and that's the thing because dr katten was like startled by her outburst yeah so he left the room to collect himself and he came back a short time later uh through different entrants this time.

Eventually he did provide testimony on behalf of the prosecution and he told the court that in his opinion she was sane.

Damn, which is wild.

Her emotional outburst was exactly the type of courtroom antics that so many spectators had hoped to see and expected to see.

That's what everyone showed up for.

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But more than that, everyone was very, very eager to hear from Jack Halloran.

Oh, I would be. He had been subpoenaed, and people knew that.

They were ready. They wanted to hear what this man had to say.

Yeah. So he was waiting in the antechamber, waiting to be called, and he, and likely everyone else, was surprised his name was never called in court that day or any other what when asked why he never called halloran to testify andrew said i guess i must have overlooked him he's my witness i'll admit that i'm what he just never called he's like a star witness and he's like oh shit he's a star witness and i love that he's like i will admit he is my witness he's my witness like thank you for admitting that like i don't know if you should admit that yikes what i must have overlooked him yeah he overlooked

him the truth was though that jack really didn't have anything to offer the prosecution and his presence in the courtroom really would have only added to the chaos and that is very true and i was thinking that like i'm i'm shocked that like he's using the i must have overlooked him and not just said like he would have caused a a scene a scene and we just didn't need any more scenes in that courtroom i think that's way more the answer and i think he just maybe didn't want to i honestly now that i'm thinking about it i feel like the prosecutor didn't want to say that because if he says he's trying

to avoid a scene then it makes it seem like he is doubtful that she has something to say that could right blow him up you know exactly and i almost wonder like because we don't have like actual you know audio of him doing it i wonder wonder now that i'm looking at it if he was just like yeah crazy must have overlooked him just like shrugging his shoulders like he is my witness i'll admit to that like just kind of like that like wink wink nudge nudge like tongue and cheek kind of thing i bet that's what it was more than anything i think so that makes more sense yeah that's the thing they like there

was really no point in calling him because really the state's case against ruth judd wasn't just backed up by the evidence they collected.

It was also supported by her multiple, multiple, multiple confessions.

Regardless how one varied from the other, she always killed the women.

And that fact was not lost on Ruth Judd who saw how things were going and was definitely starting to worry that she was going to be found guilty and sentenced to hang.

On January 26th, just a few days into the trial during a recess, she broke away from the jail matron's guard and fled into the hall trying to make an escape.

and she called out to her brother as she was running by get my lawyer sheriff mcfadden is telling the witnesses what to say just like running by she's just like hey uh get my dry cleaning and call my lawyers like she's just like throwing out to -do lists she's like the sheriff is trying to fuck me over i gotta get out of here this it doesn't sound real no uh she was quickly captured because they're literally in a fucking courthouse yeah and she was returned to the the courtroom where trial resumed after a very short break wow and this was just a small disruption in the grand scheme of things which is wild

that like the person on trial trying to escape was a small like a small little bump they're like oops sorry about that there also weren't really any immediate consequences like yeah we're just like sit down pretty much yeah but it was part of an emerging pattern of very highly emotional and very disruptive behavior from ruth that would continue you well beyond the trial to that point ruth's mother testified that her daughter was quote a woman under mental strain who struck when when best friends turned on her okay so she's like i mean that happens i sometimes we've all had that happen right and like that's not an important

it's not a proportionate response yeah i lost a whole friend group i never i never lost it like cuckoo nuts oh yeah you know i had a best friend turn on me in like middle school yeah exactly you know No, junior high.

You don't do this about it.

Yeah. I mean, nice that her mom came to her defense.

I mean, yeah, it's your mom.

I think I would have kept quiet on that one.

I'm not a mom though, so I don't know.

Yeah. When it came time for the defense, her attorney, Paul Schenck, invoked the irresistible impulse doctrine.

What a doctrine. He argued that while she may have confessed to the crime, Ruth was not sane at the time and thus unaware of the consequences of her actions.

An Irresistible Impulse Doctrine sounds spicy.

It does you know? Yeah.

Another good band name Irresistible Impulse.

Yes and even add Doctrine on to it and it would be a really cool emo band.

I like that like pop punk emo band.

If you're talented do that.

Do it. I like that.

But unfortunately the testimony from Dr. Catten and another state psychiatrist Dr. Paul Bowers refuted Shank's claim According to Bowers, quote, regardless of testified delusions and hallucinations and a strain of insanity in her ancestry, it was his opinion that Ruth was in fact quite sane.

He said, I think she was trying to fool me.

She did not display any demented actions.

And he went on to explain that rather than show no awareness of the consequences, Ruth had actually gone out of her way not only to conceal her crimes, but to conceal her affair from her husband.

spend that's the part that really that's why she did all the sanity thing is she had so much like a forethought here like she had so much like she wanted to cover up several things yeah exactly she part of this was the affair and covering it up like that shows that she's thinking of the future and rationally exactly when shank asked whether the dismemberment of another human human being was not a sign of psychosis.

Bowers replied, quote, that was exactly the best thing for her to do if she wanted to get away with it.

That's the thing. I feel like we're very conditioned to immediately assume like, well, if you dismember someone, you have to be psychotic.

Which is a normal reaction.

Very normal reaction because you're like, that's psychotic.

I can't put my brain there.

Like, who would do that?

But a sane person who is choosing to get rid of a a problem, we'll do unthinkable things.

We'll do anything just to get away from it.

Unthinkable things.

And it's not psychotic.

It's just unthinkable.

Yeah. That's the thing.

It's just just unthinkable.

Exactly. It's good you can't put your brain there.

That's the best way to describe it.

But it doesn't mean it's psychotic.

That's the best way to say it.

On February 7th, both sides rested and they gave their closing arguments with Andrews reminding the jury of the complete wealth of evidence they had against Ruth and making yet another push for the death penalty.

Paul Schenck, on the other hand, spends his six -hour closing.

I don't understand those kind of closing statements.

You're gonna lose people.

Because you talk at me for six hours and I'm gonna say you lose just based on principle.

How do you even talk?

Don't talk at me for six hours.

How does one do that?

No, you don't. To lecture for six hours is impressive, but no. Also, that's not safe.

Cruel and unusual. Yeah, exactly.

For the people who have to sit there and listen.

Yeah, but he spent his six -hour closing sarcastically attempting to undermine the critical testimony of the psychiatrist, and he heavily implied that even if she was lying to either of the state's psychiatrists, that was a symptom of mental illness in and of itself, which ultimately supported their case of insanity.

No, it didn't. If she was lying to the psychiatrist, that shows that she even more so is trying to get out of everything.

Exactly. It would show more for her sanity.

Exactly. Like, I'm sorry, did you run this by anyone first?

first a me think did no one near you be like that's actually not at all what that means like you're gonna sound dumb when i was reading this i said to myself paul shank doesn't have a raymond no like rusty had a raymond it's true you need a raymond you need a raymond presumed innocent it's a great oh my god you guys gotta watch it yeah but in closing he quote begged that she be not sent to the gallows or to a felon cell but treated as a sick woman and committed to an asylum asylum before retiring for deliberation judge howard speakman instructed the jury of their opinion to or sorry their option to

return one of six verdicts they could do damn guilty of too many options it's a lot i know guilty of first degree murder with death penalty guilty of first degree murder with life imprisonment guilty of second degree murder manslaughter not guilty or not guilty by reason of insanity okay so the jury deliberated for nearly two days before finally Finally finding Ruth Judd guilty of first degree murder.

I knew it. Which, so I'm not sure I understand that correctly because first degree murder, aren't you supposed to, like, she snapped in the moment.

So that's not premeditated.

And don't you have to have premeditation for first degree murder?

That is interesting because I would more think of this as second degree murder.

Me too. Because it seems like it was in the moment.

I would 100 % convict of second degree murder.

Me too. I would have I think I would have trouble with first degree because I don't think this was planned she didn't go there with a gun the gun was there yeah she didn't go there with the trunk she went to work and had to get the trunks you know what I mean yeah I wonder if it has to do and I'm not sure if that's what it is if it has to do with all the steps after like the cover up and everything all the cover ups and all the and going to work while they're just like laying in their beds yeah that is I feel like that maybe all that played into it a little bit but I agree that I would more likely

thought I was going to see a second degree murder that's what I thought too I'm glad you felt the same because I was like I'm just not understanding this right somebody who understands it better let us know yeah uh but when the verdict was read Ruth showed no emotion she gave no response she simply bandaged and unbandaged her left hand obsessively while she listened to the jury foreman speak yeah so on February 24th she was back in court for her formal sentencing her lawyer's motions for a new trial had all been denied and when she asked well when she was asked whether she had anything to say

for herself she attempted to tell a quote rambling story and to charge an insufficiency in the state's proof but she was ultimately overruled by judge speakman and in response she shouted those women were not murdered and then stood defiantly behind the the defense table as the judge read her death sentence out out loud for the court, setting an execution date for May 11, 1932.

Those women were not murdered.

I'm like, yes, they were.

Like, come on. Yes, they were.

Also, there might be some states where that was not required.

Oh, premeditation. Premeditation for first -degree murder.

I was just looking it up.

The fact that it was, what, 1931, 32?

Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense.

So, I think things have since changed.

Oh, okay. Thank you for looking that up.

No problem. But Ruth's execution date was put on hold pending an appeal to the Supreme Court of Arizona.

But after hearing her case, they upheld the lower court's ruling.

They said the evidence, particularly the letter she had written to William, quote, conclusively refutes any argument of insanity.

Yeah. Despite their decision, she was deemed mentally ill just 72 hours before her execution date and was moved from the prison from the prison that she was staying in to the Arizona State Hospital for the Insane where she remained quote under sentence to be hanged if she ever recovered her sanity.

In the 12 years that followed, she was there 12 years, she escaped a total of six times.

Holy shit. In one attempt it is believed that she had outside help but every time she managed to escape she was recaptured and returned to the hospital.

Six times? Every single single time.

Holy shit. After 20 years in the state hospital, she petitioned the State Board of Pardons and Paroles to have her sentence commuted to life in prison.

And on May 5th, 1952, her commutation was approved with the provision that if she was ever deemed sane, she'd be moved to the state prison in Florence.

Oh, okay. In 1962, she made her seventh.

Holy shit. And arguably most successful escape from the hospital.

This time she traveled to California where she found work as a domestic worker what and stayed out for seven years stop before being recaptured in 1969 she just went out there and found a job she in california wow like hello what wow so nearly so they found her they put her back in jail in prison and then nearly 20 years after her commutation she was granted parole in late 1969 assuring the state uh state parole board that she would quote live as quietly as i can upon her release she returned to the home of dr john blummer and his wife who she had been living with after like during that last escape

jeez dr blummer died in 1982 and she sued his wife for 408 million dollars claiming that she'd never been paid any wages for her work while she was there and had essentially been kept as an indentured servant for 11 years the court agreed with her and she was awarded a 225 500 cash settlement from the doctor's estate i am speechless yep this woman she is something wow after that lawsuit which i was in 1982 if i didn't say she faded into obscurity lived out the rest of her life in Phoenix, Arizona.

In October 23rd, 1998, Winnie Ruth Judd died from natural causes at the age of 93 years old.

1998. 1998. And while she spent most of her life associated with one of the most notorious cases, completely shrouded in mystery and controversy, many people still believe the jury and American people were biased by all the sensational coverage of the story.

huh according to attorney larry uh debus who represented ruth in the 1960s he said if the body hadn't been cut up this would have been just another homicide and nobody ever would have heard of winnie ruth judd which i disagree with but but all but also the bodies were cut up yep um so so like that's a nice thought but they were that if they weren't but like but they were she did dismember a body.

That's fun to talk about that like if she didn't but she did.

If she shot two of her friends and then went to trial, I feel like I don't think it would have been as sensational.

Because it is the trunk of it all.

What a weird thing to posture.

It's just like if she didn't dismember this person, nobody would know about her and it's like correct.

Yep. What else do you have?

Like, it's just, like, yes.

It's very cast and obvious.

Yeah, like, it's like, what?

Yeah. Yeah, Larry Debus there, I don't know.

That's like if somebody gets in a car accident, you're like, if this car did not exist, you wouldn't have been in this accident.

It's like, yup. Thank you.

But it does, and I did.

So, like, I don't understand how that helps anybody.

It was a weird statement to make.

That's saying anything.

Yeah, it's not. if jeffrey dahmer did not kill people he would not know who he was yep correct true true but unnecessary that out because he did so that's what what yeah it's just so it's a hot take what a hot take it's a hot take the hottest take but absolutely wild that she won escaped seven times and one time seven times was out for seven years and then when she did get out she just went Went and worked for this family.

And then sued their ass.

Who wasn't paying her, I guess.

Yeah. Because like there was proof that they weren't.

Yeah, I guess not. And then she got the money and the fact that she lived until 1998.

Like I was alive when she died.

She was old. Yeah, she was.

93. Yeah, she lived to be old.

Which is not really fair if you ask me.

There's some people who die much younger and it's like they didn't dismember their friends and shove them into a trunk.

Like, the people that you killed didn't really get to live that long.

It's true. Because you killed them.

Holy shit, Winnie Ruth Jones.

It's kind of saying, like, what that guy said.

They didn't get to live that long.

Yeah, and it's like, Because you killed them.

Correct. Wow. So, yeah.

What a case. Damn. The trunk murderess.

The trunk murderess.

What a case. We hope you keep listening.

And we hope you Keep It Weird!

But not so weird that you have an affair on your husband with a guy named Happy Jack and Hanky is the name and Pingy is the game and then kill your friends and dismember them.

I don't ever think you should keep it that weird. Thanks.

Thank you, Pinky. Pinky was the name.

Pinky was the game.

Thank you. If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad -free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

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[트렁크 살인 사건: 위니 루스 저드(Winnie Ruth Judd)의 기괴하고도 잔혹한 실화]-[Episode 600: Winnie Ruth Judd: The Trunk Murderess]

📋 Summary

트렁크 살인 사건: 위니 루스 저드의 비극과 광기

초기 삶과 불우한 배경

피닉스에서의 만남과 파국

사건의 발단과 잔혹한 범행

트렁크 속의 끔찍한 증거

재판과 그 후의 기행

탈옥의 아이콘

🎯Key Sentences

📝Key Phrases

📖 Transcript