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I have been listening to the Martha's Vineyard Beach and Book Club, which actually Elena recommended to me.
She did not listen to it, but she said, girl, this title sounds so you.
And let me tell you, it did. I've been listening to it while I walk, and I am absolutely loving it.
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Visit audible.com slash morbid. Some cases fade from headlines.
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Hey, weirdos. I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And this is Morbid. part two guys a true crime podcast it's finally here Conclusion of Carla Homoka and Paul Bernardo.
I am so ready for this to be over. I think a lot of people are.
I'm like glad that we're doing it, glad it's out there, ready to be over it.
Yeah, this is a rough one, like a real rough one.
Yeah. But we're going to get through it together, guys.
We don't really have a whole lot of business to take care of. today.
No business. We're going to thank our Patronuses in my mini-sode, which will be coming out in a couple days as well.
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The town of Agde in France is famous for sun, sand, sea and sex.
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Guys, just, like, we're trying to give you discounted stuff, so, like, just take it, okay?
Just take it. Take it. So I think that concludes our business portion of the introduction.
No, I'd rather this whole episode just be business instead of Paul and Carla.
It's just going to be business. The whole thing.
No, unfortunately, this is Carla Homoka and Paul Bernardo, and I would like to start this out.
By saying that I just recently found out that Paul Bernardo has the douchiest voice I have ever heard.
I hadn't heard it until I was researching part two.
And he literally talks like this, but in a Canadian accent.
And it's great. I would like to point out that I am not surprised by this news at all.
Nobody should be. Because his face... looks like he should talk that way yeah it really his face matches his voice so well like it's one of those things that if you heard his voice you'd be like i know what he looks like You know how that doesn't always happen?
Did you say that he looked like a washed up member of the Backstreet Boys?
Yes. He does. He looks like if one of the Backstreet Boys drowned in a river...
And then got hit by a Mack truck, but somehow survived it all and then just came on stage.
I love that. I love that so much. After not sleeping for like 72 hours.
Wow. That's what he looks like. Oh, and getting frosted tips.
And getting frosted tips. Just in between everything.
Just got his tips frosted real quick. In between all of that, frost your tits.
And threw some mousse in that gross hair of you.
So just to set everybody off. To feel good for a second about how stupid Paul's voice is.
I'm going to play you a little clip. Just so you can hear it.
Because I feel like everybody should hear it. this isn't a gross clip he's just being a douche to police detectives in his prison interview so There's really no context here.
It's just him being douchey, but his voice is just too good to not play.
So without further ado, Paul Bernardo. because she's going to fail on all these issues.
Did her hand cause death? Yes, it did. Blah, blah, blah. did this kidnap in July, it was a girl in January, I actually kidnapped and invited somebody, I picked up her apartment, she tried to to roll over and all these other issues, all relevant, all relevant.
And so and then I addressed it to you guys when you came back again.
Last year, I said, yeah, I'll take a point draft on anything because I'm not telling them why I'm a thing.
Are you, have you, again, I ask the question, have you guys gone down and, you know, I know Carla's free now. reason why she's refusing.
Oh, my God. Why is he talking so fucking fast?
He's like, I got a lot to say here. I got to talk about polygraphs.
I got to talk about coloring. I'm talking about polygraphs and coloring.
Literally, he just spoke so fast I barely even heard what he was saying.
Well, and at one point he goes, I'm not in the business of putting Carla in jail.
That's your job. That's not my job. Like, what, dude?
What's happening, Paul? Like, what's going on?
Yeah, that stressed me out on a galactic level.
He's a big old douchey half-dead Backstreet Boy.
That's what he is. He's a zombie of a Backstreet Boys.
That's literally what he is. So when we last left you off, and again...
This is going to be super gnarly and if you do not like listening to... descriptions of people being sexually assaulted and raped, this might not be for you.
But if you want to hang around still, I will let you know when it's going to get kind of yucky.
So. Guys, remember, I will say, hey! And I'll say, it's gonna get gnarly, guys.
Let's jump into this. So when we last left off...
Paul and Carla had raped and killed her 15-year-old sister Tammy.
And then they had had that special video called the Fireside Chat where they talked about how great it was and how Carla loved it and she loved watching it.
And she loved taping it. And then she pretended to be Tammy and they made a sex tape.
So... weird weird things were weird man and it's only gonna get weirder from here so i don't want that so about a month after Tammy's death on February 1st 1991 Paul and Carla moved in together oh good they got a place in port del lucy ontario isn't that nice they got a new place That actually does sound like a really cute place.
And at this point, Carla's parents were clearly I mean, again, this is only a month after Tammy died.
So her parents are deeply mourning because, you know, that's what at least partially normal human beings do when they lose a loved one.
Not Carla, though. Carla was actually very annoyed with her father in particular, who was taking Tammy's death exceptionally hard.
We know this because Carla wrote a letter to her friend explaining just how annoyed she was at her parents for mourning the daughter she and Paul murdered.
Want to hear the letter? I don't, but yes.
And just so you know, Carla talks like this.
She talks like that, so I'm going to read it in her voice, okay?
No, no. I don't want it. Fuck my parents.
They're being so stupid. Only thinking of themselves.
My father doesn't even want us to have a wedding anymore.
He thinks we should just go to City Hall.
Screw that. We're having a good time. If he wants to sit at home and be miserable, He's welcome to.
He hasn't worked except for one day since Tammy died.
He's wallowing in his own misery and fucking me over.
It sounds awful on paper. But I know you'll see what I'm really saying.
End parentheses. Tammy. always said last year that she wanted a forest green Porsche for her 16th birthday.
Now my dad keeps saying... I would have bought it for her if I'd only known that's bull.
If he really felt like he'd be paid... If he really felt like that...
He'd be paying for my wedding because I could die tomorrow or next year or whenever.
He's such a liar. Wow. I don't even know what to do with all of that.
I feel so many types of ways. So basically, Carl is like, wow, my dad's such an asshole for not wanting me to get married a month after my sister. a month after I killed my sister yeah like how dare him how dare him not be just like up and running and having fun like what the fuck I mean, it's Carla's wedding, guys.
Time to stop mourning the brutal death of your preteen daughter and start focusing on place settings and shit.
I bet that wedding smelled bad. Oh, it smelled so bad.
Yeah, there was a lot of aquanet in that wedding.
There's so much moose involved in this couple that... there's so much nothing can like when they hug you can hear their hair crinkling together oh yeah like You can hear them coming because they just crunch everywhere they go.
Literally. Literally. Is it Autumn? No, that's Paul and Carla.
No, that's Paul and Carla. Is that a whole season coming?
No, that's just Paul and Carla. Don't worry about it. it's an easy easy mistake to make duh uh so so you know lucky for carla The wedding planning continued because grief be damned.
Oh yeah, fuck grief. Yeah, fuck grief. That's not his real name.
That's a real person. No, it's not. Van Smyrnis.
Like, I'm trying to come up with something that rhymes with furnace, but I can't.
Oh, furnace, smurnus. My name's Van. But, like, if Van Smyrnis came up to you and you were like, what do you do for a living?
And he was like, I sell cigarettes illegally over the border.
I'd be like, yup. Yep. You sure do, Van Smarness.
I'd be like, yeah. Also, that's not your real name.
Bye. Get out of here. So yeah, him and Van...
They got a whole smuggling business going together.
And all the while, Paul and Carla are still making sex tapes with Carla dressing up. talking and acting like Tammy.
I don't like that. Yeah. I hate that. No one likes that.
No one likes that. But I really don't like it.
I'm just... I'm not a fan of it. I don't like talking about it or thinking about it but it happens.
A lot. So unfortunately, it's part of this.
Now, weirdly enough, at this point, the rapes in Scarborough ceased.
And a new string of sexual assaults and rapes began in St.
Catherine, which was closer to where Paul and Carla were now.
Oh, that's weird. Weird, right? Yeah. It's a weird coincidence.
Super weird. Just thought I'd bring it up.
Now, this brings us to the night of June 15th, 1991.
You know. Yeah. We are so in unison tonight.
We keep saying the same things. So perfect.
You know, it's just regular middle of the night shit.
Well. While he was out looking to get felonious, he spotted 14-year-old Leslie Mahaffey.
He spotted her in front of her house. Leslie had attended a wake for her friend who had passed away suddenly earlier that day.
And she had stayed with her friends until very late.
And that's when Paul spotted her. It was around 2 a.m.
Now, her friends had brought her home. When she got to the front door, she realized that her side door was locked.
She said she was sure that another door would be open, so she had her friends leave.
She was like, don't worry about it. I'll get in the house.
Oh no. Unfortunately, there was no one locked away in because she had missed her curfew and her parents were trying to teach her a lesson.
Oh my god, no. No, that's the most horrible thing I've ever heard in my life.
I know. I keep thinking about those parents because it's like...
Oh, how do you even? Oh, my God. Yeah, that's like real bad.
So that's horrific. It really is. So she was trying to wake her parents up to let her in when Paul approached her and asked if she wanted a cigarette.
Now he just came up to her like outside of her house.
Yeah. I'd be like, no fucking Lance Bass.
I don't. Now if some dude pulled up on me at 2 a.m. while I was locked out of my house and said literally anything to me, I would be screaming and causing a huge ruckus.
Yeah. I'm not blaming her in any way. No.
Well, and unfortunately, Leslie was only 14.
So she wasn't exactly privy to how fucked up the world is yet.
But when she got closer to his car, Paul attacked her. wrapping a sweater around her face to blindfold her, threw her into the car, and drove her back to the home that he shared with Carla.
My God, that's horrific. Now, things are going to get a little gnarly.
I'm not going to go like crazy detail or anything, so don't worry.
Please don't. But just the whole idea of it is not... fun at all so just be aware again leslie's only 14 let's all remember that like that's let's not remember it baby i mean like 14 is baby i can't So Leslie was held hostage in Carla and Paul's.
I almost called him Brad. He kind of looks like a Brad.
I don't know. He looks like the Brads and Chads of the world.
And I'm sorry if your name is Brad or Chad.
Well, they're very boy band names, so it just kind of makes sense.
She was held hostage for 24 hours in their house.
While Paul and Carla repeatedly raped, tortured, and humiliated her.
The entire thing was filmed on Paul's infamous camcorder. the entire thing.
The only thing not filmed was Leslie's unfortunate end.
Now, it's theorized that she was murdered due to her blindfold slipping off.
That theory holds up because Carla, even though Carla is a total liar and lies. about everything.
She did say that the reason Leslie was murdered was because her blindfold slipped off and she could identify them.
That was so I mean, I I'm assuming that does have a little bit to do with it.
I also think they just wanted to kill someone.
Yeah, I mean, it does make sense. Well, they already did, and they felt what it was like.
When Carla said that like Paul's ultimate thing was he wanted to have like the he wanted to get these teenage girls and keep them for a while.
He didn't want to just let them go or kill them.
He wanted to keep them for a while as like sex slaves.
That was like his ultimate fantasy. What the fuck is wrong with people?
So I wonder if he was thinking like he could...
I think his whole thing, and this is just me theorizing here, that he could like break them in and make them, you know... like stockholm syndrome them into staying and i and i think he really tried to do that with kristin french who's the next victim we'll talk about but we'll get to that in a second um So Leslie was was murdered.
So the day after the blindfold slipped, Bernardo claimed that Homoka fed her a lethal dose of halcyon, but Carla claims instead that Bernardo strangled her.
Either way. Was there any like ligature marks?
Well, you'll see why that doesn't really matter.
The pair put her in the basement after they murdered her.
And the reason they put her in the basement of their home... was that later that day, all of Carla's family joined them at their house for a Father's Day dinner.
Oh, wow. Yep. Oh, great. right above Leslie's dead, battered body, lying in the basement.
They had a Father's Day dinner. Psychopaths are so fucking scary.
These two are bonkers. So they ate dinner. and made small talk with her entire clan while a body was in the basement.
And also after they like brutalized and murdered this young girl, They just showered and got dressed and like got ready for dinner.
And like we're excited to like see their family probably.
Yeah. And we're like, cool, we're going to have dinner.
I'm like thinking about what I do to get ready for a family gathering.
Like what? Yeah. It's ridiculous. Now, I hate that so much.
After the family left, Paul went down to the basement and he dismembered Leslie's body with a circular saw.
And then the pair encased the pieces in cement.
Oh, I've heard. I heard about that. And then both of them dumped her remains in Lake Gibson.
Oh, my God. Now, a little more than two weeks later, Paul and Carla got married.
How exciting. What a union. So in the wedding picture, they had already killed...
Tammy and Kristen. Two weeks before that, they had already killed Leslie and Tammy.
Wow. Yeah. Kristen, they haven't got yet.
They had a very expensive, very fancy ceremony at Niagara on the lake.
She wore a big, ugly, expensive dress and had baby's dress in her hair.
Her dress was so fucking ugly. Oh, yeah.
He looked stupid as hell, and his sideburns were like half sideburns.
Which, like, why can't you just commit to sideburns or not?
It just bothered me. Yeah, that's stupid.
They even had a horse-drawn carriage because their romance was such a fucking fairy tale.
Wow, that's horrific. Yeah, the whole thing was a whole fairy tale.
Carla described it as a fairy tale. But to me, the only fairy tale that they even slightly resemble is like...
Hansel and Gretel, if the witch was a couple of sadistic rapists with a buttload of halophene and a video camera. and the kids being lured to the candy house where teenage girls just minding their own damn business.
Literally. So basically the same thing, right?
Total fairytale. Except totally different.
Total fairy tale. So now this part's insane to me.
The same day of their wedding. While Carla and Paul were exchanging vows, and playfully pushing cake into each other's stupid faces.
What happened? Leslie's remains were uncovered by a couple of fishermen.
Oh, the same fucking day as their wedding?
Yes, on their wedding day. Holy fuck. Literally, while they were getting married. leslie's remains were being found that's so fucked isn't that insane like crazy symbolic that's like the universe man Yeah.
That's like the universe being like, go fuck yourself.
Like, I don't even know what more to say.
It's just like, damn, that's the universe.
I don't know what the universe is saying, but it's saying something. it's saying something so you know they lived at such a happy delicious delightful romantic life And then on April 19th, 1992, Paul and Carla decided to go out driving in search of another sex slave for Paul.
Oh, God. Because that's what you do when you get married.
Yeah, that's somehow they spent their honeymoon, right?
Totally. Absolutely. They parked in a church parking lot and just waited like the predators that they are like, come on.
You just park in a church parking lot? What are you?
Jesus is watching, bitch. Yeah. This is... Jesus is watching, bitch.
This is when 15 year old Kristen French walked through the parking lot on her way home from school.
She had long brown hair. She was dressed in a school uniform.
She was I mean, they were both Wesley and Kristen were both like beautiful.
Yeah. Yeah. According to many reports, Carla suggested to Paul, what about her?
And Paul was super into it. And Paul was also super into Kristen.
And we'll see this because she gets held the longest alive.
Oh, really? The way Carla talks about her, you can tell that Paul had more of a... had taken a liking to her and it bothered Carla.
Oh. Yeah. So Carla called out to Kristen for help with directions.
And she even held out a map for authenticity.
Oh my God, what a fucking cunt. Right. When Kristen approached the passenger side to talk to her.
Paul came up behind her, blindfolded her, and threw her into the car.
In broad daylight? Oh yeah, in broad daylight.
Carla held her hair. while Paul held a knife to her to keep her in the car.
Oh, my God. People were around when this happened.
Like people saw it. Yeah. People fucking suck.
Like don't ever expect people to help you because people just saw this and it just happened.
Kristen's parents reported her missing immediately because she was just coming home from school and she was a reliable good kid.
So... when she didn't come home they were like whoa something's wrong like immediately um this is when all the witnesses came forward and said they saw the abduction Unfortunately, one woman who didn't exactly have a subscription to Autoplanet thought she knew exactly what the car was, but she was very wrong.
Oh no. She told police that the car that abducted Kristen was a beige Camaro.
What sucks is that it was actually a gold Nissan that Paul drove.
Wow, she was really overestimating his fucking wallet.
Right? It's a Camaro. It's a Camaro. It's a Nissan.
It's a Nissan. Not the same thing. Yeah.
And so this was what ended up hindering the investigation a lot because billboards were put up and shit that had a beige Camaro as the car everyone was supposed to be looking for.
Oh, shit. Because when Kristen French was abducted, it was like everywhere.
I mean, this was just they literally had billboards up with that car on it being like, this is who abducted Kristen French.
Were they connecting it at all? They did start to connect it, and they started calling it the schoolgirl murders at the end of it.
They didn't connect it until later, though.
Okay. So Paul and Carla were just floating around with no suspicion at all in their fucking beige Nissan or their gold Nissan.
Meanwhile, Kristen was held captive in their home for three full days.
Oh my god. That's a long time if you actually think about that.
Oh yeah. And she endured the same kind of torture that Leslie Mahaffey endured.
They took turns holding the video camera while she was repeatedly raped, beaten.
Humiliated. Paul forced Kristen to say that she loved him many times, which to me says he was a little more infatuated.
This is pretty awful. This isn't like graphic.
It's just an awful thought. He also forced her to watch her parents on television pleading for her safe return.
No, I literally hate that. Right? Why? Like what the fuck is wrong with you?
That just ruined me. I hate that. I hope somebody slams his head into a concrete wall.
She had to literally watch her father like begging for someone to bring her back.
Because her parents were like desperate to get her back, obviously.
What is wrong with you? And like whenever I hear about something like this where a victim was kept for like days on end.
I always immediately, this is going to sound weird, but I think about the nighttime.
Like what were nights like for Kristen? Yeah, no, I totally get that.
Like, was she just staying awake and wondering what the hell was going to happen next or wondering what her family was doing?
Or like, I bet she... She tried to get away.
Yeah. And like, did she pass out from exhaustion at any point?
Like, did she dream if she passed out? Like, I know it's kind of like deep and shit, but seriously, it always hits me that nighttime must be... the worst time in those situations.
I don't know. I just think about it. I'm like, what do you do during the night?
I mean, Paul and Carla obviously slept. So that just leaves Kristen alone to just like, exist and wonder what's happening.
Did they like chain her up or something?
They did, yeah. She was chained up for the whole time.
Oh, wow. Yeah. Kristen was really smart though.
She figured if she just went along with everything they wanted that they would not punish her too badly or maybe even let her go eventually so she tried to be very compliant Which is smart because, you know, you never know.
Exactly. So it was smart of her to do that instead of just, you know...
It's like, sure, you want to like push back and fight, but that doesn't always equal.
You have to read the room. Yeah, exactly.
You have to read the room. Unfortunately, on April 19th, after three days, Kristen French was murdered by Paul and Carla.
Why did they say they murdered her? Well, Kristen's – that's the thing.
They both kind of blame each other, so neither one of them has a –
A definitive answer. Yeah. Kristen's entire ordeal was captured on camera like Leslie and Tammy.
But they again failed to capture the moment of death on film.
So it was the same kind of thing. Carla does say in one of her interviews that they killed Kristen because...
She said she had to go back to work and she said she didn't want this girl just in their house alone during the day because she was afraid she would escape.
So she said she looked at Paul and said, something needs to be done about her.
Wow. And she says it like very nonchalantly, like, yeah, I didn't want her in my house in case she escaped.
So we had to just kill her. It's like, oh, okay.
And what does Paul say? Paul, I didn't see a lot about what he said about the Christian French thing.
I think, but he blames Paul. Carla. He says that Carla gave her a lethal dose of halothane. he always says that she and he maintains she's I did everything he's like I am on film I did everything like I will fully admit to everything I do you have to so You have to, bitch.
You can't really deny that. But he always says that Carla was the one who killed them.
That's interesting. What do you think? That's his one thing.
I kind of think, because I almost think that it is Carla.
Yeah, because she was like super jealous.
Because she was super jealous and I think she was, she's super dangerous.
I mean, he's obviously absurdly dangerous, but I think he did want to keep them around. yeah not out of the goodness of his heart he wanted to keep them around so he could rape them for months on end yeah i don't think he wanted this to end after three days but do you think that he would have killed them eventually If he had done this whole operation by himself, like take Carla out of it.
Maybe if he... I think he would have killed the ones he thought he couldn't break.
Okay. But the ones he thought he could break I think he would have kept around and I think he would have kept Kristen around not because he thought he could break her but because he liked her.
Yeah. Because apparently I read something that said he wanted to be like a rap artist at one point.
Shut the fuck up. Which... I mean, like, makes so much sense it's not even funny. i can't you just see him wanting to be a rap artist yes yeah and he even made some like music No, no, no, no, no, no.
Where can I find it? I went looking for it.
I'm going to keep looking, but I don't think he released any.
Oh, my God. But he did at one time, Carla said that he brought Kristen into like his little music studio. and showed her some of his music.
That's so fucking weird. So he seems like he was very like infatuated.
Yeah. Like he was just acting very strangely casual with her.
Yeah, that is strange. Can you imagine if somebody kidnapped you and was, like, really, really fucking horrible to you and then was like, hey, check out my fucking mixtape?
Exactly. It's like, what? I'd be like, no.
Excuse me, what? And I think that's what Chris did.
She was like, dude, no. Like, I don't care about your rap.
Yeah, like, thank you, but no. Thank you.
Goodbye. Wait, did you say Carla said that Kristen didn't like the music?
Yeah, she said Carla was like not into it.
And it's like, no shit, she wasn't into it.
Are you kidding? Of course she wasn't caring about your beats.
She's like, wow, hot, hot drop on that one.
Yeah, like really? Do you think she has like any kind of mindset right now to care about your music career?
Yeah. She's like, I gotta go, actually.
That's what's wrong with these two fucking people.
It's like... And Carla says it like, oh, yeah, and she wasn't impressed.
Like, oh, I'm sorry that she wasn't impressed.
Seriously? Oh, it's just unbelievable. So... Karla's a fucktard.
She is. It's insane. Now, again... Paul claims that Carla killed her.
And he says that she killed her while he was out getting dinner for the three of them.
So he says, I wasn't even there. Exactly.
Carla testified that she stood in the room and watched while Paul strangled Kristen with an electrical cord.
And I did hear her interview where she says that, but...
She's such a bullshit. I don't really believe that.
She's such a bullshitter. But it happened.
So Paul and Carla left her where she laid.
While they showered, dressed, and then headed off to enjoy Easter dinner with the Homokas.
It was Easter? Yeah. Oh my god. Why do they do these things on holidays?
I was just in. It's insanely interesting that they seem to murder these people right before having dinner with Carla's family.
Every time. It's like a weird stress reliever.
I feel like it's intentional. Yeah. Like she like literally got off on the fact that she would kill someone right before having dinner with her family.
Yeah, that's really weird. Like, I feel like that is what – it's so odd.
I didn't mean, like, stress reliever, but, like, do you know what I'm saying?
No, like, in their minds. Yeah. They're like, oh, we have to have to with the in-laws.
Yeah. Like what? Better go kill someone.
That's horrific. I could see them thinking that.
Yeah. Because they're so fucked up. Now they went and had dinner with her family and then they came home.
They washed Kristen's body. They cut off all her hair. why and dumped her naked less than a kilometer from the place where leslie mahaffey was buried why they cut all her hair off They wanted to disguise her like so people couldn't immediately recognize her.
Now, it's important to note again that Kristen was hailed for her bravery and quick thinking because she left behind clues.
Her shoe was found at the scene of the abduction and they said that they think that was on purpose.
They also said she tore off a section of the map that Carla was holding and left it at the scene.
Oh, wow. Because it was forensically tested later and they think that she did it on purpose. makes sense so this is when things got really bad between carla and paul okay he started beating her pretty severely every day according to her.
Well, maybe he was mad that she killed Kristen.
Honestly, it's like all of this kind of adds up to this infatuation.
In a horrible, horrible way. It really does.
Now on May 12th, Paul was brought in by police because they were acting on a tip that he was an aggressive asshole.
And once again, they dismissed him as a prime suspect in what was now being called the schoolgirl murders.
Because Leslie's remains were exhumed and the medical examiners found bruises and injuries on the back of her. that had similarities to the blunt force injuries on Kristen French's body.
Uh-huh. Because again, they were like raped and beaten.
These girls were put through hell. Now, this is the first time that the police did connect these two murders when they exhumed Leslie's body.
Niagara Regional Police worked with the Halton Regional Police and they established a task force to conduct the investigation into the two crimes at this point.
So on July 21st, a reenactment of Kristen French's abduction was shown on TV.
Because they wanted to see if anybody jogged more memories, like, did you see this?
The reenactment generated thousands of tips, but they didn't really get any solid leads out of it.
So on January 6th, 1993, Carla was admitted to St.
Catherine's General Hospital. after Paul had beat her viciously with a flashlight.
Now, the photos of this are insane. Like she has two of the blackest eyes I have ever seen and is covered in bruises.
Wow. So that is legit. He was arrested and charged with assault with a weapon and then released on bail.
Oh interesting. Right. This is when the family of Carla finally convinced her to leave him.
She moved back in with them and this is when things started to unravel.
Oh no. The Niagara police became involved in the domestic situation, and so they brought Carla in for questioning about it.
Mm-hmm. Now, they were already beginning to suspect that Paul had been involved in the Scarborough rapist crimes because, remember, he had been taken in and questioned about them before, but they let him go.
So I think they kind of put their radars up like, huh, if he's capable of this, then let's investigate the connection further.
So a month later, the Center of Forensic Sciences finally matched his DNA that he gave willingly. like, I think like a couple years before that.
Yeah, years. Finally matched it with that of the Scarborough Rape.
No way. Yep. So this is when police put Paul under surveillance and tapped his phone.
Oh, damn. Now, when Carla was questioned by police, it was by the two detectives that were leading the Leslie Mahaffey and Kristen French murder investigation.
They were not asking her about the murders.
They were asking her about like the domestic assault stuff.
Uh-huh. But everyone knew who these two detectives were because they were all over the news because these murders were...
They were huge. Did Carla know? So these detectives.
Well, that's the thing. So Carla knew who these dudes were.
Oh. Well, that was a very smart of them.
And so she freaked the fuck. Well, they did it.
To kind of put a point out there, like, we know what you're doing, but we're not going to...
Okay, so it was kind of smart. Yeah. So Carla freaked the fuck out and refused to talk because she assumed they knew everything.
But then she went to her uncle and spilled her guts.
She claimed they both did everything, but that Paul was abusing and manipulating her into it the whole time.
Uh-huh. She then told him that Paul was the Scarborough rapist.
Oh my God. So then Carla got a lawyer, George Walker. and she confessed everything to this lawyer but she did it with always framing herself as the innocent victim just being forced into it right Like I didn't do this on my own free will.
I did it because I was being abused. So she agreed to testify against Paul on the condition of being granted immunity from prosecution.
The Attorney General for Ontario would not agree to immunity, thank God.
Yeah, seriously. But was willing to consider a reduced sentence, which... at the time made sense but later bites them in the butt so hard when they get all the exactly so she was offered two 12 year I've heard 10 year or 12 year and I couldn't figure out exactly which one it was I'll say two 10-year sentences which she could serve at the same time, which means she wouldn't serve 20 years, she would serve 10. two 10-year sentences even make any sense and she would serve those for the murders of leslie and kristin and another two years would be added on for tammy's murder That's it?
Yes. Because they were still referring to that as like an accidental death.
Oh, and she would get the chance at parole after just three years. now now what like was fucking robert kardashian her fucking lawyer because she was saying she will sing like a bird and tell them everything That's unreal.
Now, this deal is officially known as the deal with the devil.
And it makes sense now, but it'll make even more sense when it Totally unravels.
So on February 17th, Paul was arrested for the murders of Leslie and Kristen and the Scarborough rapes.
This is when they got the warrant for their home as well and they found a journal that Paul kept which detailed every single one of his crimes because he is a big creepy fuckhead.
Along with the journal... They also found a bunch of what they referred to as deviant sexual books. a hunting knife, handcuffs, and a video of Paul and Carla engaged in sexual activity with two unidentified young women.
Oh, my God. Carla was clearly a willing participant in both of these encounters.
Now, these are the two that I believe the Jane Doe.
Oh, okay. She was clearly a willing participant in them.
She said, the police said in the video she is smiling, happy, relaxed.
She had painted herself as this. I was beaten and manipulated into it, but she was having a blast.
And like the video clearly. showed differently.
Shows it. Now she did admit to the police that one of the girls in the video had been drugged and was later unaware that she had been raped. because she found that out later at this point they didn't find the mother load of tapes yet I wouldn't even want to know.
I know. Can you imagine finding that out later?
No. And finding out that it's on videotape?
That's horrible. That's the same, the toy box killer.
This is very reminiscent of that. That happened to a couple of them that they didn't even know it.
Yeah. Now, while undergoing psychiatric evaluation before her trial, Carla wrote this letter to her parents and her surviving sister, Lori, on April 13th, 1993.
Please don't read it in her voice because it makes...
It makes me so angry. I won't because it's slightly long and I can't do that breathy voice for that long.
Yeah, it made me want to like die earlier.
So this one says... Dear Mom, Dad, and Lori, this is the hardest letter I've ever had to write, and you'll probably all hate me once you've read it.
Poo fucking. Oh, yeah. Paul was, quote, in love with her and wanted to have sex with her.
He wanted me to help him. He wanted to get sleeping pills from Mark to drug her with. he threatened me and physically and emotionally abused me when i refused no words i can say can make you understand what he put me through So stupidly, I agreed to do as he said.
But something, maybe the combination of drugs and the food she ate that night, caused her to vomit.
I tried hard to save her. I am so sorry, but no words I can say can bring her back.
I have thought many times of killing myself, but I couldn't put you through the pain of losing another daughter and sister again.
I don't blame you all if you hate me. I hate myself.
I live with the pain of knowing I unintentionally killed my baby sister every day.
"'I think that's the real reason I put up with Paul's abusive behavior.
"'I felt I deserved it for allowing him to drug and rape my beautiful baby sister.'
I loved her so much and never wanted to do anything to hurt my tamaskins.
Please believe me. I would gladly give my life for hers.
Nothing I can do or say can bring her back.
I don't expect you to ever forgive me, for I will never forgive myself, Carla.
XOXO Except remember that time when you're on film saying that you were like super stoked that she died.
There's that whole thing. But like when you read that, you're like, wow, what a selfless angel she is to spare her family of the loss of her too.
Nah. Because we wouldn't want her family to lose her.
Oh, yeah. Like, how sweet that she did that.
So beautiful. No. Carla. When you read that part, I got annoyed.
I don't want to put you through the loss of me.
Like, really? Also, you're going to jail.
They are losing you. Does her family talk to her?
I don't know, actually. Also when she's like, I'd gladly give my life for hers.
Well, from what you're saying... Cool, do it.
Paul was, like, abusing you and hurting you, and you were scared, so you killed your sister instead, and it's like...
So why didn't you just let him kill you?
Yeah, exactly. If you would have given your life for hers.
Like, yo, you had the chance. And you just said that. but you said you were too scared of him to do.
Like what? Okay. You're dumb. So that was beautiful.
Now the trial of Paul didn't begin until like two years later.
And this is when the tapes were finally discovered, a little before his trial.
On May 6, 1993... Paul's lawyer retrieved six 8mm tapes that had been hidden in their home.
They were not turned over to police until September 22nd, 1994.
So that is his lawyer was the one who found them and kept them.
The tape showed in graphic detail the rape of Tammy Homoka and the torture and rapes of Leslie Mahaffey and Kristen French.
What's weird... Is Carla appeared to be real consenting and real psyched to be there?
In all of them. She didn't seem frightened, forced or abused at all in any of them.
And by this time, the case was huge. It was dominating the headlines.
It was on all the news things across North America.
News of these tapes immediately made people go flipping mad.
Because the media was now accusing the prosecution of making the deal with the devil. because Carla only got a 12-year sentence for her role in these crimes, but...
She was exactly the same. I mean, she was literally an equal participant to Paul.
So Paul was going to get this harsh sentence, which he should get, but she should have had the same sentence.
Why couldn't they go back based on the new evidence?
Well, unfortunately, the Crown said... it's obliged to stand by its agreement like it or excuse me obligated to stand by its agreement so they just said this is the way we have to do it we made an agreement with her, we can't go back on it.
Why? It's just the law. They can't just, like, futz around with it.
They have to go by it, so... Yeah. Unfortunately, I mean, she got like the deal of the century. literally because she was like oh yeah i'll tell you everything i'll tell you everything just give me this reduced sentence just it's fine i'll give you everything i'll testify against him it's fine And they were like, cool, we'll do that.
And then all of a sudden this buttload of tapes that literally show her. and him, they showed them all the details that she was giving them.
Right. Except the real details. They didn't need her at all.
So it's like they literally got a free reduced sentence.
She got a free one because they didn't need her at all.
Now, let me see, jury selection for Paul's trial began on May 1st, 1995, and the Crown opened its case on May 18th.
The trial lasted four months During the trial Carla spent 17 court days In the witness box Testifying against Paul Paul was found guilty on all the charges against him.
Two counts each of first degree murder, kidnapping, forcible confinement and aggravated sexual assault. and one count of committing an indignity to a human body for Leslie's dismemberment.
He was sentenced to life in prison, which is about 20 years in Canada, I believe.
Okay. But he was later declared a dangerous offender, which makes it pretty unlikely that he will ever get paroled.
Good. Because once you get labeled that, it's like, forget it.
They're not going to let you out. Right.
And he's been denied parole every time. Five years later, in the year 2000, both the Ontario Court of Appeal and the Supreme Court of Canada turned down his efforts to appeal his murder convictions.
And in 2006, his lawyer said his client had confessed in 2005 to 10 additional sexual assaults.
Oh, wow. since 2013 paul has been making his home at the millhaven maximum security prison in bath ontario yay so carla served every day of her own prison sentence 10 years Plus an additional two years for the involvement in the death of Tammy.
Although she was in this, this will make you rage.
A model prisoner. No. No, she wasn't. Actually, she was never officially charged or convicted in the involvement of her sister's death.
Are you serious? Never officially charged.
Why? Isn't that insane? I don't know she just never was.
That's unreal. Initially, they put her in a rehab-oriented women's facility in Joliet, Quebec.
And it was apparently a pretty nice facility that she was living it up in.
Wait, a rehab facility? Like a rehab-oriented women's facility.
Interesting. Now, then photos were leaked of her in this jail and they were published in the media.
Yeah. And it showed her like living this very nice cushy lifestyle in there.
People went bonkers in Canada. Like what made it cushy?
I mean, she was literally like doing whatever.
She was not in jail. Like this was not a prison.
It was literally like she had all these things.
She had all this freedom. She just wasn't.
She was clear. And in the pictures, he's clearly smiling, having a blast.
You have to be fucking kidding me. That happens in Canada jails.
Oh yeah, but then under pressure, she was quickly moved to a decidedly less cushy facility. where which was um conjoined with a men's prison where she came into so like good on canada for listening to people being like what the fuck Yeah.
When she went to this new prison, she came in contact with an inmate named Jean-Paul.
I think it's... It's probably Gerbet, but it's Gerbet.
Gerbet. Gerbet. Gerbet, probably. One of those.
Now this guy was known in the media as, quote, another Paul Bernardo.
Oh, goody. He was convicted of strangling his girlfriend, Kathy Coretta, in a jealous rage.
Now reportedly... This guy and Carla had a steamy affair in prison.
How does that even happen? Exchanging sexy notes, nude photos, and even her underwear.
How do you even take pictures of yourself in jail?
I have no idea. Like what? There was one inmate that they talked to who said she saw them at a prison fence and she was giving him her underwear.
That's disgusting. So they were like, clearly this woman has a huge problem because she's in prison right now and she's involved with someone exactly like Paul Bernardo.
Right. Like she's got a problem. She's a sick, sick person.
Yeah. Now when she applied for parole. Her relationship with this guy was listed as one of the reasons that her request was denied.
Oh, wow. That's crazy. Yeah. And they wrote in a quote, you have secretly undertaken an emotional relationship with another inmate. and evidence gathered seems to indicate that this relationship rapidly became sexual, the panel stated.
So they were like, you're a wreck. Get it together, Carla.
She was also denied parole with only less than a third of her sentence left.
Because they deemed her to be, quote, too high risk to re-offend.
How many months before she got let out? Less than a third of her sentence left.
And they were like, no, we're not convinced that you won't reoffend.
But then she was let out. Yeah. So it's like she's 100%.
According to them, she's dangerous and will reoffend.
Right. Now, she was released on July 4th, 2005.
There was clearly a media frenzy. Camera crews were like staked out at the prison.
I mean, she was literally like the most hated woman in Canadian history.
Now right after she was released, she legally applied to change her name, but the request was denied.
Oh, really? Which is awesome. Within a year, though, she married a guy named... I'm getting it.
This name is kind of strange to me. But Theory?
Theory. t-h-i-e-r-r-y yeah theory i don't know you're like it might be oh maybe tyree tyree maybe Bordelis.
He was a French Canadian citizen who was also the brother of Carla's lawyer.
Oh, interesting. She married the brother of her lawyer.
Weird. Really fucked up. Now, people went crazy yet again. when it was reported that less than two years after being released from prison, she gave birth to a baby boy.
Hate that. This monster who had taken part in the murder and rape of three children now has children of her own.
Yeah, that's fucking gross. Currently, she has three of them, which ironically... one for each of the life that she took yeah fuck that like she has one child for each life that she extinguished isn't that insane I just can't even imagine the fact that she's a mother.
Like, what? Well, that's... And this, to me, shows what a piece of shit she really is, too.
Because she chose to have kids... knowing that these kids were going to be the ones to pay for her shit.
Right. Like she can pretend to be someone else and pretend to have a different name and all that shit.
But they can't pretend that's not their mom.
With people... With being a rapist and murderous child.
They're always gonna have to deal with this.
And if she was rehabilitated at all... Then she would have forgone having kids and spared them of that.
A hundred percent. She would have been like, you know what?
It's not, it wouldn't be fair of me to bring kids into the world.
She was not rehabilitated. But she doesn't give a shit.
Now, she sometimes calls herself Emily Bordalis or Leanne Teal Bordalis.
That's what she seems to be known mostly as.
She still lives in Canada, namely Quebec.
And it's said that Leanne Teal was the name she was going to use when her and Paul spoke about running away at one point.
And changing their identities. So it's in like a weird way.
She's showing that she's still attached to him.
Yeah. Like using that name. That's psychotic.
She was actually volunteering at her kid's school for a spell But since parents found out, they were like, yo, we don't feel super comfortable having a monster who raped and murdered young girls, including her own teenage sister around our kids.
The school quickly put a stop to it and she was officially banned from volunteering at the school anymore.
Like, I'm sorry, who the fuck does Carla Homoko think she is?
Like, are you kidding me, you satanic hemorrhoid? she seriously thinks she has the right to be around other people's children like you should have been sterilized yourself Yeah, she won 100%.
I wish that that was a thing. That was, like, if somebody committed a crime that horrible, they should be sterilized.
Honestly. she really should be sterile especially if they got the deal of a century and we're gonna be able to get let out like oh sorry our terms and conditions are that you can never have children Yeah, you shouldn't ever be able to bring another life into this world.
Like, she is such an infuriating pubic lesion.
Sack of shit. The poor families of Leslie and Kristen, like they have to know that her rapey ass is hanging out around kids.
And fucking her family. Like you get to live your life and be a PTA mom while they still mourn the children that she stole from them.
That's so fucked up. Fucking ingrown toenail.
Let me tell you, those are horrific. Yeah, and she is one.
She is an ingrown toenail. She's worse. Luckily, Canada does things correctly, and they have been keeping tabs on her shit since she was released.
So now she doesn't fart without a Facebook post being written about it and shared to keep everyone on the lookout.
Like, good job, Canada. You guys rule. There's literally a Facebook group that's like watching Carla Homolka.
And they like update it to be like, this is where she is now.
What do they do to her? I mean, she gets harassed a lot and she gets what she should.
And I mean, she's always getting hounded by people, but.
Finally, if you're in need of some advice on taking care of your own children.
Carly tends to frequent a parenting message board on babycenter.com.
And if you've ever gone online and you've looked up a question like for the parents out there that are like – if you've looked up like, hey –
Is my baby's poop supposed to look like that?
A lot of the first things to come up will be these forums where other parents answer questions. right one of them is one very popular one is baby center i've been on it I have never written a question, but I've gone in there to look for answers to questions.
And she posted on there, under the name... Carla.
Yes. Under the name Love You Forever. To me, that's definitely to Paul.
Yep, 100%. And she also... So she was... What she would do is she would answer questions and like... involve herself in format discussions, forum discussions and all that.
And at one point she got kind of snarky with someone who I don't know the whole message because I only saw a screenshot, but someone had said like... labor or pregnancy, labor and childbirth was like a life threatening situation. which it is technically.
And Carla came back like super snarky and was like, Oh, like basically like bullying this poor woman who said this and being shocked.
Not me. Yeah. And being like, are you fucking kidding me?
Like, blah, blah, blah. Like she was wicked nasty about it.
So then all of a sudden under her reply, someone replies to her under the name.
Kristen French. Oh my god, that's amazing.
And this person wrote, yeah. A life-threatening condition or a life-threatening situation is when you rape and murder someone.
Oh my God. And I was like, savage. Literally so savage.
The fact that someone is trolling her on Baby Center under the name Kristen French. is amazing and then also this person who made this profile had her because In these forums, if you make an account, a lot of the times these women will put their due dates on their little signature thing.
She put her due date as Kristen French's birthday.
Oh, wow. So she really like hammered it in.
I'll see if I can find the screenshot and I'll post it on our Instagram because it's very interesting.
Now, also, and perhaps most satisfying in this frustrating case, because I know it's Carla now has like full blown like bulldog on a hot summer day neck jowls that no amount of nipping and tucking can fix.
Oh, does she really? Gobble, gobble, bitch. that's amazing i didn't even look up what she looks like now If you get any profile of her, like anywhere she's turned to the side, you're like, yo.
That's rough. Your life has definitely been worn on your face.
Oh wow. So yeah, that is the story of Carla Homoka and Paul Bernardo.
It's a story that I just really – I'm stressed.
Oh, and – Just as a quick little like last thing, a lot of people were commenting about the ridiculousness of... how they claimed Tammy's chemical burn on her entire face was caused by a rug burn.
Yeah, that's just bananas. And a lot of people were commenting on the picture being like, are you kidding me right now?
Now, I saw an interview with Carla. where she says that she thinks that the...
The chemical burn was from the acidic aspects of Tammy's vomit because she said that she never held the cloth on her face.
Well, what? Right in the same interview, the police officer's like, yeah, except I watched the video.
And you did. And I watched you hold it to her face.
So she literally like lies out, right? And then they're like, yeah, no.
So she tried to lie about that too and be like, oh yeah, that wasn't a chemical burn.
No way. I hate her. But it was. So yeah, so that is the case, the conclusion of Carla Homoka and Paul Bernardo.
I'm so glad that one's over. What a fun ride that was.
Say it again. What a fun ride that was. And by fun, you mean... And by fun, I mean nightmarish and horrific. yeah that was horrific well if you want something less horrific and disturbing you can go ahead and follow us on instagram at morbid podcast but you'll probably see a lot of horrific and disturbing stuff there too but it will be joyous you can follow us on twitter at A Morbid Podcast.
You can send us a Gmail. morbidpodcast.gmail.com You can join our Facebook page. morbid a true crime podcast which by the way the facebook page is super red and i've been going on there just to peek at everything that everything's everybody's posting and it's Awesome.
I love it. If you're missing out on it, it really sucks.
It's a really fun place. It's a cool little community.
It is. You can also donate to our Patreon if you feel so inclined and you love us and you want us to appreciate you past a thousand suns.
Patreon.com slash Morbid Podcast. And you can go check out the lovely website that my lovely co-host so beautifully designed at Yeah, morbidpodcast.com minus the yeah.
We hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird.
But not so weird that you're – I just – you know, I'm not really for it, guys, today.
Sorry. Sorry. There's nothing funny about this one.
There's nothing funny about any of them.
No, but this one in particular is just there's not a lot of levity in it.
Except for Paul's hair. And Carla's jowls.
But not so weird that you have Paul's hair and Carla's jowls.
Bye. Bye. Bye. Thank you. If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.
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