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Right now, I am listening to The Southern Book Club's Guide to Slaying Vampires by Grady Hendrix, and I just cannot get enough of it.
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I am absolutely obsessed with a sweet treat after dinner, and my favorite sweet treat right now is my mochi.
It's mine, not yours.
Just kidding. You can have some too.
This is a cool, creamy scoop of ice cream wrapped in a soft, chewy dough.
It's like a sweet little ice cream dumpling or ravioli.
I'm obsessed. It's pillowy.
It's satisfying. I feel indulged.
I just love it so much. I really am obsessed with the strawberry flavor right now.
My mochi is only around 70 calories per piece, which like, hello, that's amazing.
My mochi is gluten -free and each box has six perfectly portioned mochi snacks.
Do I eat two a night?
Yeah. Yeah, I do because they're that good and guess what my mochi is the number one mochi ice cream in the u .s of a the strawberry flavor is bursting with fresh picked fruit flavor that tastes incredibly refreshing i love love love them after dinner this august look for the purple box of my mochi ice cream at your local grocery store and feel joyfully chill with the coolest treat around my mochi hey weirdos i'm elena and And I'm Ash.
And this is Morbid.
Whoa! Hey! What's new?
Heyo! What's up, girly pop?
Hello, we saw some of you last week in New York City.
In the Big Apple, baby.
and you guys were delightful and awesome and it was so fun to talk about the book with you guys and I got to have Ash there because she's my you know emotional support Ash yeah I take her everywhere no matter what I take her everywhere no matter what but it was really cool to see you guys and you were awesome and you were such a fun audience and it was cool to be on stage again yeah it was so good to see you guys yeah and thank you for all the people that gave us gifts oh my god that was so nice people gave us sunflowers we got crystals the kindest we got a bunch of taylor swift bracelets some
cool notes that were just really kind and awesome notes yeah um cool cards i was just really thrown back by all the people that gave us their taylor swift bracelets because i think those things are like fucking important yeah i had no idea so i'm it's like a love language between swift yes as far as i'm told so i'm feeling the a love and i hope you guys are dug the uh the sneak peek at book two in your paperbacks it's cool that you get to read it now you're all part of the club now with ash i feel weird i feel like i feel like my club was taken from me in an instant no now it's just a warm fuzzy
club of people no i'm kidding i'm i'm like pretty stoked that you guys got to read that because that's a bomb ass chapter and fun fact i've read a whole bunch of the second yeah so it's fucking terrifying yippee what did i say we should put on the front of it as a quote from me not actually that you sometimes you're terrified to be in my orbit yes i said i'm very terrified to be in alina's inner orbit and she's my sister um i like that i'm also gonna start carrying a note around in my pocket and i told john that he should probably do the same okay i like that i love that effect i have have on you
guys. You're welcome.
Thank you. I don't know.
You're welcome. Today I have a very, very, very tragic case.
This is the case of Sophie Lancaster.
If you've never heard this one, it's like I said, very tragic and if you had then you know a very sad tale.
I know the background of this one and it is a horrifying story.
It's gut -wrenching but I think it's honestly like a a really important story to tell as are all of the stories that we tell and i think we should just dive into it yeah so sophie lancaster was born november 26th 1986 to john and sylvia lancaster in the rosendale borough of lancashire england and i looked up how to say that good job thank you at the time it was not necessarily the best place to live in the world uh rosendale was being hit hit hard by a dwindling economy.
The area was falling into a bit of disrepair.
Just like, not the best vibes.
But Sophie's family, which was made up of her, her parents, and her older brother, Adam, they had a really happy life together, like a core four home unit kind of thing.
Sylvia, Sophie's mother, said that Sophie was so intelligent and sensitive.
And she told told reporters how much Sophie loved to read, how she was interested in social justice issues, and she just really wanted to be involved in making the world a better place for everybody in it.
Which is so much more tragic.
So much more tragic.
Truly. Sylvia, Sophie's mom, she worked with kids.
So she was pretty familiar with all the different kind of phases that kids go through while they're growing up.
So it really didn't come as any surprise to her when Sophie started, you know, dressing differently than other kids at her school and started getting more into heavy metal and kind of hard rock music.
Good for her. Yeah.
She was just like, it's par for the course.
And Sylvia said as Sophie entered high school and kind of entered this quote unquote phase, which really wasn't a phase, that she quote, knew it was her way of marking herself out as an individual.
What a cool mom. Yeah.
What a cool mom and what a cool kid.
Yeah. You know, that's really cool.
It is. And obviously she felt very supported to be able to like confidently go forth like that.
It definitely seems like it.
And luckily, eventually Sophie did meet other kids who shared her same interests and her taste in music and that was when she really leaned more into what you i guess you would call the goth aesthetic she loved to wear quote a long black leather coat and lace gloves and tops oh hell yeah and i love that like she made it her own what a cool chick yeah like with the lace gloves i love that nice little touch and then from there her style choices evolved and eventually she would you know dye her hair all different kinds of colors she would add like facial piercings that were cool she i saw a picture
she was so cool she's a cool fucking chick so some parents might have worried about you know the dark clothing the heavy makeup i remember when i started wearing eyeliner my and black nail polish my dad was actually very concerned which is really funny to think about now hi dad yeah um and you know parents might like fight against that kind of thing yeah but sophie's parents sylvia and john they really didn't think much of it they were like they're cool parents she's just expressing herself and we're happy that she feels comfortable doing that she's not hurting anyone she's not hurting herself
yeah and actually they gave her credit they were proud of her for being so comfortable asserting her individuality especially at such a time in her life where she was probably going to be judged for doing it you know sylvia and john sylvia yeah forever but still according According to Sylvia Sophie was a quote unquote typical rebellious teen and of course they would find themselves in arguments just like any other mother and teenage daughter or teenage son or whatever have you.
They would fight over small infractions like sneaking out to concerts and that kind of thing.
Yeah. The use. So Sophie eventually met a guy named Robert Maltby through her friend group and that was when she was in her junior year of high school and they just hit it off almost instantly.
By all accounts they shared the same taste in music, they shared fashion choices together and they both had really thoughtful sensitive personalities and it seems like rob was pretty welcomed by sophie's family not just her friends her family as well sylvia said they were such a sweet couple and they were totally devoted to one another oh my god that is like like this was a young yeah beautiful love oh it hurts so rob and sophie quickly became inseparable and sophie actually kind of became rob's artistic muse i'm loving this it's it's beautiful he would paint one portrait after another of sophie
that sylvia actually displayed in her in her home until she passed away oh my god in 2022 that is heart wrenching and if you look them up he's an incredibly talented artist these are like beautiful paintings rob told the guardian in 2017 we'd see friends at weekends but day to day it was just the two of us it was always just rob and sophie oh i love love so much i love that now sophie and rob had found some solace and support in each other because you know they could bounce ideas off of each other they had these similar tastes they had a deep connection and love for each other but that didn't
mean that they didn't still deal with a ton of discrimination and abuse because of their interests and their appearances and particularly in the relatively working class last suburbs of rosendale they were different and people didn't like that that's ridiculous it's basically just that they didn't go along with the with the grain so sylvia remembered that sophie had a lot of problems at school when it came to fitting in the other kids girls especially and we all know how girls are in high school yeah it can be tough it can be very tough and these were the kind that weren't into like the goth thing
that sophie was into they treated her just like she was shit they treated her like a weirdo and because it's threatening to see somebody so confidently being themselves it is because you cannot people like that don't know who they are yet nope at all nope and so sophie did have feelings of isolation but at the same time she did know who she was and like i said was confident in that yeah she wasn't like those other kids and she really didn't want to be yeah she was somebody who actually became vegan when she was six years old she started getting into the goth and metal scene when she was 11 and she
was really open when it came to talking about what she found interesting hell yeah because Because sometimes like kids at that age, they can squash you from expressing any kind of passionate like for something.
Because you feel like they're like, oh, you're such a nerd. You're such a geek.
You're into that so much. Like, so you're just like squash all that.
It's cool that she was just like, no, I love this.
Let her personality and everything about her just shine through.
But unfortunately, her confidence in herself did not save her or Rob from some pretty shitty and horrible situations.
They both had been subject to verbal abuse, people yelling rude comments.
at them. And sometimes it would actually escalate into minor physical violence.
Imagine giving a shit that hard. No. About what somebody else is doing that affects you in no way.
No. Whatsoever. Couldn't be me, honey.
Like what what a weird creature these people are.
Like it's so weird. No, it really is.
But luckily they both fell back on their confidence and I would say probably their love for one another.
Like they had each other and it wasn't like a relationship where it's like like it's us against the world it was just this beautiful they support each other and they supported each other exactly and so they just kept on expressing themselves freely now in 2007 sophie and rob actually moved in together into a small apartment in bay cup a small town in rosindale rob had just started her excuse me his first year at manchester school of art and he was working towards a degree in illustration which is really fucking cool and sophie she had decided to take a gap year but she was looking forward to starting
work on an english degree the next year so they had plans just artistes artistes and they had plans they had a really promising future ahead of them they were actually even starting to talk about getting married oh like just planning their life together and it seems like they really were meant for each other yeah absolutely but all their plans for their future came crashing down in the early morning hours of august 11th 2007 because of some of the world's most disgusting monsters.
Awesome. So on Friday, August 10th, 2007, Sophie and Rob actually went to just go hang out with a friend.
They went to visit their friend Jonathan in Britannia.
The three made plans for a nine o 'clock or for nine o 'clock and spent about two and a half hours at Jonathan's apartment, just having a drink, watching some TV, just hanging out with friends.
And then after that, Sophie and Rob headed home a little after 1130 p .m and at about midnight they stopped into an all -night service station because rob wanted to buy some cigarettes and then on the way out or while they were there actually they ran into some kids that they knew chatted for a bit and then walked as a group to a nearby section of bay cup known as the fudge factory okay which is actually a reference to an old candy company that had once occupied the lot oh that's cool it made me think of willy wonka the chocolate factory but after spending about 20 or so minutes just chatting with their
friends there sophie and rob said said their goodbyes, and they continued on their way home, and they were going to walk through Stubby Lee Park.
Okay. At about 110 a .m., Sophie and Rob came up upon a group of teenagers, including 15 -year -old Brendan Harris, 16 -year -old Ryan Herbert, brothers Joseph and Danny Holm, I think is how you say it.
They were 16 and 15, respectively, and 17 -year -old Daniel Mallett.
Remember those ages.
These are all young kids.
Not even one of them is 18.
Now, these five boys referred to themselves as the Bay Cup Terror Group.
Wow. Super scary. And they had previously been at a local cafe and arcade known as The Cage, where they each had around four pints of lager and did shots of peach snobs.
Okay. So they were loaded.
Now, just before Rob and Sophie had entered Stubby Lee Park, this group of teens had made their way down to the skate park with a bunch of other people.
and that skate park was near the center of the park and that is exactly where they were all hanging out when Rob and Sophie walked by just minding their own fucking business walking home walking home so Rob felt a little bit nervous because one of the boys approached him and asked for a cigarette and it just something about it I think his flight or flight or fight senses just kicked in yeah like couldn't explain it but just like it's got a vibe got a vibe exactly he had a a feeling that they should just keep going but being a nice guy he stopped and as he reached for his pack this 14 year old
girl who was with a group overheard one of the boys say shall we batter him what the fuck just giving someone a cigarette just stops like like super fast and then out of nowhere shall we batter him i don't like you have nothing better to do species The human species truly gets worse and worse every day.
Aliens take me away.
Truly. Then, not actually though, then without any warning or any kind of provoking, Brendan Harris stepped forward and just slapped Rob across the face.
What a tough guy. You just slapped him.
Yeah. So it caught Rob off guard and honestly, probably out of just sheer confusion, he laughed.
Of course he would.
Because you're just like, what the fuck?
Because you're pathetic, you piece of shit.
Exactly. Like you literally just stepped forward and slapped me in the face.
And he was probably just like, with no warning, like, you idiot.
Yeah, like taken off guard and just like, what the fuck are you doing?
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someone laughing at them no never even more pathetic truly and um i just want to say this is when it gets particularly graphic so if this is something you want to skip by i totally understand it's really violent so somebody jumped down from one of the skate ramps and kicked rob in the head knocking him to the ground what the fuck and this is just out of nowhere they just walked through they just walked through and stopped to give someone a cigarette to do something for someone like it's so scary it's so scary so he fell to the ground and once he was on the ground they all of them just started
beating him relentlessly they were laughing they were taunting sophie and rob as they just kicked and punched him punched him over and over and over over again and he's laying on the ground trying to protect himself so sophie obviously runs over to rob's side and yells at this group to just leave them alone she's like stop but that only further encouraged these sick fucks and they turned on sophie a woman who fucking raised these animals um probably not great parents and i feel confident saying that because we'll get to it later yeah those are fucking animals animals and and the other thing is it's
like where are your parents you're 15 16 17 years old in the middle of the night just at a skate park like where violently beating people like as they pass through like what the hell is wrong if you want to be at a skate park skating in the middle of the night sure that's your prerogative leave everybody alone exactly mind your fucking business so one witness a 15 15 -year -old boy who was there and tried to get them to stop because it's the it's this group of teenagers but then it's like just some other teenagers hanging out and watching this like oh my god what the fuck is thank goodness somebody
tried to get them to stop like that was pretty brave of that other like 15 -year -old multiple people did actually and this one like i said 15 -year -old boy he just yelled at uh he tried he yelled at them trying to get them to stop and he later said they were running over and just kicking her in the head and jumping up and down on her head what the fuck out of nowhere they did this to this couple oh my god another girl among the group later told detectives i started crying because i'd never seen anything like that they were all just booting them they were making loads of noises screaming noises they
were booting them in the head swinging the leg back properly booting them like jumping on them like animals honestly not even i was just gonna say not even animals will do this not even animals exactly Holy shit.
The attack on Sophie and Rob lasted a few minutes, but it must have felt like hours for them because I've never heard of anything like this.
I can't believe this.
Like, this is just so...
It's sickening. It truly is.
So once they decided that they were done, the boys just casually walked out of the park and left Rob and Sophie laying completely brutalized, unconscious on the ground.
What the fuck? months later a witness would describe them to the jury the the teenagers as quote behaving in a giddy way hyperactive and bouncing around doing silly things as they left i i have no words it's not even humane it's not even animalistic i don't even know how to describe what they don't and as they left the park one of the attackers stopped a boy going in and told him they had just beaten up two people in the park and then another in the group chimed in you want to see them they're a a right mess like and then they gave the boy rob's phone which they had stolen from his unconscious
body and then just left the park altogether just went about their night after leaving two people i'm they didn't even know if they were dead or alive these kids need to be caged up and like throw away that key throw it like that is some unhinged beyond if you're capable this is one of those things where obviously obviously this is not in the u .s but and while i was doing this i was thinking like oh my god what if they get out because of that whole constitution thing and then i was like oh wait it's not in the u .s even here i'm like if you can do this at any age this is like a young level of violence
and a level of like there was no provocation here none whatsoever that wouldn't even be okay with with provocation no but the fact that these kids are just walking through the park and this happens right like that's something you can't like you can't take that out of someone like that's that's scary that's that's inside you and that is deep -rooted and i don't how do you work through that no you don't i don't think like that is that's beyond now even though the boys who had attacked sophie and rob had left the park there were several teenagers still remaining at the the scene just in absolute shock
multiple of those people called for an ambulance the first call was placed at 1 17 a .m and the second at 1 19 a .m and the calls for an ambulance triggered an alert to the local police with a message assault in a park and in a park park road sorry possibly near a skate park so they didn't have a legit location while police and ambulance services tried to locate the scene of the attack more calls were placed to emergency services because they were like where where are you?
Like you have to get here.
Another one at 1 .23 AM.
And then finally another one at 1 .29 AM.
Thank goodness these kids are calling.
Yeah. Seriously. You know, like, thank goodness they stepped up and like did.
Because I mean, there's adults that won't intervene even enough to call an ambulance.
You know what I mean?
So I'm glad that they all came together and we're like, we got to get somebody here.
For sure. So Jonathan, the friend that Sophie and Rob had spent the night with hanging out that very night, he was woken up by his phone ringing at about 1 .30 a .m and he saw that the call was coming from rob's cell phone so he answered right away of course but heard nothing on the other end and he just hung up after a minute or two probably assumed that it was like a butt dial yeah but he after he hung up texted rob's phone to be like hey like you good man but he didn't get any kind of response the phone rang again about a half hour later and this time when jonathan answered the call the voice
on the other end was not rob's it was a teenage boy who said have you got two friends down in bay cup park and the caller told jonathan there's two moshers here and they look like they're dead holy shit before just hanging up the phone oh man that just gave me chills so jonathan rushed down to the nearby park and he obviously found it was filled with police and emergency service workers but no one would tell anything because they just couldn't in that moment but he's looking on hearing like that his friends were just attacked and look like they're dead and he can't have any way of finding out
what happens so paramedics did arrive at stubby lee park at 120 in the morning and they were absolutely shocked to find rob and sophie in the state that they were in they both suffered obviously severe injuries to their heads and faces and quote were so badly beaten police had had difficulty establishing their sex. Oh, God.
So they were rushed to, I believe it's Rochdale Infirmary, where they both received emergency care and were stabilized, luckily, before being transferred to larger hospitals for inpatient care.
Rob got transferred to North Manchester General Hospital and Sophie to Fairfield Hospital.
They both had serious trauma.
They were unrecognizable to their families.
Oh, I can't even imagine this.
but at the same time their injuries were not considered to be life -threatening at that point so while they both arrived at the roachdale or roachdale infirmary in an unconscious state they actually were both expected to recover oh god so the extent of their injuries was just like unimaginable you can't even begin to fathom the state that they were in like i said they had both been beaten severely about their face and head so there was really really intense very serious swelling which would have been horrifying for anybody knowing them like their family members to see i can't and their parents
can you imagine seeing your baby like that i can't i can't either and they were also they had been bleeding from their ears and noses that's how bad it was rob suffered internal bleeding and bleeding on the brain and sophie this is horrific had deep boot impressions on her face and this is very graphic had quote a piece of flesh missing from Where her attackers are believed to have yanked her hair out.
Animals. Not even. Truly the scariest kind of animals.
Like I can't even. This is outrageous.
You would, this is one of those things where you say you'd see it in a movie and you'd be like, that's distrustful.
Like that's too much. Yeah.
All these poor families too.
Like I just like. Truly.
To have to see your loved one like that.
this is beyond your worst nightmare your brain I don't even think could come up with this on its own I hope now once the pair had been stabilized Jonathan the friend was brought to the Rochdale infirmary and he was actually asked to identify Rob oh my god but he was not allowed to see Sophie at that current time they were still doing a bunch of everything you need to know exactly so because the dispatcher hadn't been able to provide a precise location the police actually initially went to a different location.
They went to Park Road and Edgeside and then they were redirected to Stubby Lee Park where they arrived at 1 45 a .m. That's tough.
That's really tough.
That's a big span of time.
It is. Now initially the remaining teenagers at the scene were being sketchy and they didn't want to talk to investigators so the motive for the brutal attack wasn't obvious.
Because there is no motive.
There isn't one. But because some personal belongings were missing specifically rob cell phone detectives considered that actually a robbery might have been what prompted this assault because of course the police are looking at this and they're like something had to have started this like how does this just happen out of nowhere but after interviewing several witnesses they concluded quote the two people who were attacked followed the gothic trend and potentially this could have been a motive that's not a motive that's not a motive you know it's just you're a because they're gothic yeah now luckily
even though some of the witnesses at the scene weren't comfortable disclosing any information a few were willing to tell the detectives what happened and they actually identified three of the five boys responsible for the attack so by late morning police had begun rounding up those that they believed to be responsible for the attack on robin sophie starting with ryan ryan herbert the arrest of herbert was followed a couple hours hours later by the arrest of Brendan Harris and Daniel Mallett, and then detectives would arrest Danny Holm at his parents' house the following day, and his brother Joseph
would later turn himself into police a few hours later.
Yeah, I bet you did.
Yes, scared little boy.
Now, the following day, Monday, August 13th, all five were brought before Burnley Magistrate's Court, where they were each charged with two counts of grievous bodily harm with intent.
Now, on Wednesday, August August 22nd, Rob Maltby's condition had actually improved to the point where he woke from his coma because he was in a coma.
But now he was stable enough to visit Sophie in her hospital so he was able to visit her.
And then he was transferred to a hospital closer to his parents' house so that they could, you know, take care of him.
I can't imagine having to see somebody you love like that.
Him having to see her?
No. That poor... I'm sure he probably wanted to, you but you almost wish that he didn't have to see her like that you know like oh but then at the same time what your brain could come up with i guess i just feel for him on every level you can feel for him you you do you really do so detectives they were really hopeful actually that now that rob was awake and no longer in a coma but he would be able to fill in some of the blanks and any kind of missing information about the night that they were attacked but again he just woke up from a a coma after considerable brain trauma so he was quote disoriented
and confused and he actually didn't really remember much from the attack which i'm grateful that he doesn't have to remember that like but like you should never have to remember that the fact that they cause that much brain trauma that is that's that's so significant like it is hard to cause that much trauma oh yeah his His life is changed forever in so many different ways because of these five fucking pricks.
You can't even like, no, nothing you call them is satisfying.
Exactly. Because they're that evil.
They're beyond. Truly.
But unfortunately, his memory seemed actually to be even worse once he was taken off the sedatives that he'd been given early on.
According to one of the nurses tending to him, Rob was very restless, difficult to speak to, very repetitive and disoriented.
Oh, his brain had just gone through so much, so, so much like incomprehensible.
So the police continued to work in the background and they were particularly interested in why Rob and Sophie actually went through Stubby Lee Park to get home because they only lived a little over a mile from their friend and they could have taken a more direct route back to their apartment.
but according to their friend Jonathan it really wasn't that unusual for Sophie and Rob to take a long way home late at night because Rob and Sophie enjoyed that time of day of course and they just like spending time with each other like a nice nighttime walk and they should be able to live in a place where you can go on a nice nighttime walk through a park through a park exactly like a an area there's other people bopping about they should have been safe but other than that nobody Nobody came up with an alternative explanation.
Because that's good enough.
That's the thing. People take scenic routes all the time just to spend more time together.
Especially as a couple who clearly enjoyed their time together all the time.
They like the nighttime.
They're night owls.
They wanted to just walk through the park together and they should have been able to do that.
That chills me. So the case ended up being assigned to Detective Inspector Dean Holden and he immediately recognized several of these names of the boys who had been implicated.
Because they're little pieces of shit anyway?
anyway they are pieces of shit yeah according to inspector holden ryan herbert was a local menace local prick ryan herbert yeah known for years as a bully at school and a bully in the neighborhood where he lived that kid he came from a large family and several members of said family were also well known to the police and police knew that he would act out aggressively or inappropriately to get attention wow now like ryan herbert brendan harris was also a local troublemaker and very well well known actually weeks before this attack 15 year old please remember the ages here 15 year old harris had
transferred schools due to his behavior and he was often barred from clubs and establishments for aggressive or inappropriate behavior but let's not uh figure this out before they hurt someone no never yeah at school and inside his social circle he was known as a bully who quote would pick on others he labeled as geeks oh fuck these kids you're a fucking geek if if anybody's a geek how pathetic how pathetic truly brothers joseph and danny holm lived at a traveler site in bay cup where they shared a trailer next to their parents so they lived on their own with one another just right next to their
parents people were not shocked to hear that joseph was involved in the attacks on sophie and rob he had quite a reputation for himself he was actually the leader of the bay cup terror group uh self -proclaimed i'm sure but people People knew he was a very scary kid, but they were actually very surprised that his younger brother Danny had also been involved in the attack.
Sounds like Danny was just taking a walk.
A follower, yeah. Yep.
And that's not the kind of thing you want to follow.
Nope. Like, what the fuck did you get yourself into here?
This was your time to actually do something.
I was just going to say this would have been your time to, like, stand up on your own.
Exactly. But he didn't.
Nope. So he wasn't the only one who surprised Danny there, wasn't the only one who surprised the public by being involved.
According to Catherine Smith, who was the editor of the Rosendale Free Press at the time, Daniel Mallett was, quote, and this is a different Daniel.
He was the person least expected to be involved in a crime of this nature.
By most accounts, Daniel was a fairly good student, actually.
His parents had divorced a few years earlier, but they maintained a good relationship, and they were a pretty stable family unit.
That's scary. That's so scary.
But there were a pretty good number of Daniel's classmates that had noticed some recent changes in his personality starting about a year or two earlier.
They said that he started to show, quote unquote, violent tendencies.
That's really scary.
Just out of nowhere.
Now, with the public starting to learn more about the case, back at the hospital after nearly two weeks in a coma with no signs of life at this point.
My God. Sophie Lancaster had to be taken off life support on Friday, August 24th, 2007.
That's horrific. so because she has murder she'd been killed her death escalated the assault now to a case of murder and the lancashire police made a statement saying the charges will be reviewed with the crown prosecution service a murder charge is an option for all five of the youths yeah charge them all charge them so two weeks later all five were again brought before burnley magistrate's court and they were charged with the murder of sophie lancaster yes rightfully so glad so i'm so happy that there There wasn't any kind of like fuck shit with that.
Yeah. So to quite literally nobody's surprise, throughout their interviews with the police, all five of the boys either claimed that they didn't participate in the assault or they just pointed fingers at the others for the bulk of the responsibility.
Oh no, you're not tough guys anymore, huh?
No, not so big now, huh?
Scared little boys.
Yeah. The first two times that Joseph Hoom, who again was said to be the leader of the game, was interviewed, he blamed everybody else for the attack.
That's what a good leader does.
Yeah, always. Turn on your friends.
Yep. Yep. Not so big and tough now.
Nope. But the police wanted to know, if he wasn't involved, then why were his fingerprints found on Rob's cell phone?
So weird. That's pretty weird. Yeah.
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Now, at his third interview, he gave the officers a prepared statement claiming his fingerprints were found on the phone because another teenager had handed it to him as they entered the park and asked him if he wanted it and he looked it over but declined yeah i just turned it over in my hand and then i gave it back you're a fucking idiot like come up with anything better or just tell the fucking truth how about that now when joseph joseph's brother danny was interviewed he also denied any involvement and he blamed the entire assault on ryan herbert in fact in danny's version of events he claimed
that he quote tried to save sophie by pulling ryan herbert off off of her you know what would have been like the sickest way to save someone calling the police in an ambulance immediately upon the start of this if you were trying to stop it immediately yeah yeah because you uh didn't try the job doing good try danny now like the holm brothers daniel mallet faced multiple interviews in a short amount of time and in each interview he admitted to only punching rob one time yeah it's so weird i don't know how any of the other it's like even that is fucked you don't punch somebody randomly for no fucking
reason for walking through a park you're still a piece of shit i just only punched him once yeah i just punched him just for walking yeah and then you watched and can and joined in as you murdered his girlfriend and your friends did ridiculous so he denied any involvement in laying a finger on sophie he said he had nothing to do with that he also blamed brendan harris and ryan herbert for the entire assault on Sophie.
Now, meanwhile, in his interviews, Brendan Harris, he repeated a prepared statement which essentially pinned the entire killing on Ryan Herbert, who was refusing to answer any questions from investigators.
I think Ryan sounds like he played the biggest part in all of this.
Ryan certainly sounds like the issue here.
But everybody was involved.
Absolutely. To be clear.
Now, even before any of the details about the attack on Rob and Sophie were made public the assault prompted a ton of different shocked and outraged responses from the media and just anybody who was hearing about this some people directed their frustrations toward the bay cup town government they were complaining that stubby lee park had become quote drunk violent yabs um and a yob is a rude noisy and aggressive young person okay so they were like basically the park is full of little assholes you make everybody's lives miserable and they made comments like quote If we had park rangers, then maybe
this tragedy might not have happened.
Yeah. Solid point, I think.
You do need something there.
Yeah, especially if the park is going to be open that late.
Yeah, absolutely. And there's nobody there monitoring it.
Yeah, there's several layers here.
Yeah, exactly. Now, others directed their criticisms just more broadly at society as a whole.
One resident told reporters, I think the real issue is why these teenagers were allowed to be out in the early hours of the morning unsupervised and drinking alcohol.
Yep. But regardless of where people placed the blame, they all agreed that the attack in the park was just further evidence of a national problem of increased violence from what they were calling disgruntled young people.
That's the thing. It is.
And especially during that time, that's scary.
It is scary because they were like, what the fuck is going on here?
Like, we need to get some programs instilled in this city.
We need to get some park rangers put at the park.
Yeah, clearly an overhaul needs to be happening here on every level.
Precisely. all the way down to home all the way down yes exactly even at home yeah so the attack on robin sophie happened at a moment in uk politics actually where people were getting more and more concerned with what then prime minister david cameron referred to as quote unquote our broken society now prime minister cameron's point about the broken society was mostly actually focused on a series of unconnected crimes that were happening throughout the uk where children had committed shocking acts of violence just like the one we're talking about so scary against other children and even against
adults and he he was correct there definitely was an issue regarding violence especially when you hear that on the night that rob was attacked and sophie was murdered three teenagers in cheshire kicked this man named gary new love to death in front of his family after a night of binge drinking what the fuck the same night a man was kicked to death in front of his family and then several months after everything we've already talked about at this point three teenagers stabbed another boy to death in london after a minor argument between their friend groups my god so everybody was getting really
really nervous about what the fuck was going on here seriously so prime minister cameron's comments about a broken britain they became an important talking part excuse me talking point in a push for increased law law enforcement, and social restrictions.
Yeah. But even outside of the political spotlight, the attack and murder of Sophie and attack on Rob was triggering new discussions about the effects of intolerance on alt communities in UK and everywhere, all throughout the world.
Yeah. When details of the attacker's whole anti -goth motive began kind of circulating amongst the press, that's when Sophie's death took on a greater significance, especially for activists that were promoting tolerance.
Yeah. So there There was a lot of different social issues connected to this at this point.
For sure. Now, by the end of 2007, Sylvia, Sophie's mom, had actually established Stamp Out Prejudice, Hatred, and Intolerance Everywhere.
Shut up. Which the acronym for that, if you didn't notice, is SOFI.
Again, Stamp Out Prejudice, Hatred, and Intolerance Everywhere.
I love that. SOFI. It was a nonprofit organization dedicated to raising awareness of the effects of hate crimes and advocating for policy changes.
The fact that this woman was able to do that by the end of the year that she had lost her daughter, her only daughter, she is a badass.
So through social media, lecture campaigns, branded items like wristbands, T -shirts, Sophie still works to promote, quote, a greater understanding and acceptance of all people.
And that was Sylvia's mission, but it also seems like that was Sophie's mission when she was here, you know?
Within weeks of her death, the social media pages for the organization had attracted thousands of followers.
Everyone was offering condolences.
People were sharing stories of their own experiences with intolerance.
And the organization and its message held special significance among the heavy metal and the goth music scenes in particular because those people were constantly aware of the abuse and violence that had been directed at Sophie and Rob because they'd gone through it themselves.
That's awful. And then it went national or national.
International. It went international.
Intergalactic. It did.
Across the world, musicians, artists, fans, everybody, they were writing songs.
They were creating memorials to Sophie.
Oh, I love that. In places like Bay Cup and Whitby where the annual goth weekend is held.
Love that. There were still all kinds of memorial signs up for Sophie.
There were commemorative benches, other installations.
That was not going away.
way. No. So in the year since her death, tributes to Sophie and the commemoration of her memory have only grown.
They grow and grow and grow every year.
Now there's actually high profile memorials at events like Bloodstock Open Air, which is an annual British heavy metal festival.
That's amazing. And thousands of people attend that festival every year.
So that's so cool. Sophie's legacy lives on.
And you know, she loves that.
oh like that and she deserves she deserves that to be taken from this world at such a young age and with her whole life shit ever and her whole life and like plans ahead of her you know it's nice to see that she can live on through in some way exactly now sylvia her mom was determined that her daughter's death would not be meaningless but at the same time she also didn't want sophie to to become a martyr.
So Sophie campaign manager Kate Conboy Greenwood told reporters martyrs choose what they do but Sophie had no choice in the horrible way she died.
That's the thing. She did not want to be here.
She did not want like like we just said like she would love to see all those you know that's how she's being memorialized but she she didn't want that.
No she wanted to live.
She wanted to be there.
She had goals. She didn't want to be you know the the center of a memorial there.
Like, it's amazing that that's happening, but it shouldn't have to happen.
She didn't ask for this.
No. So instead of being remembered for how or why she died, Sylvia and everybody at Sophie, they worked tirelessly to make sure that Sophie's life served as a platform for spreading a message of tolerance and acceptance.
And I just think that's really amazing that they were able to do that.
For sure. So back to the case here.
As family Family and friends began the work of promoting Sophie's memory and legacy.
The police and Bay Cup continued the slow, methodical work of interviewing more than 100 people who had come forward with new information.
Detective Inspector Dean Holden told the press, I'm grateful for the positive reporting we've received.
And according to him, because so many of the witnesses and others with information were children, the interview processes required additional time because there was a lot of different protocol that had to be followed and that wasn't usually required in the process of interviewing adults.
This was like consent and all that.
Right. This is a very different case and a very different way of investigating.
But still, the turnout of information actually had been surprisingly good and useful.
Yeah. And investigators were working on a strong case against Rob and Sophie's attackers.
So in January 2008, all five boys appeared before a judge at the Crown Court at Preston in Lancashire, where they all pleaded not guilty to the charge of murder in the case of Sophie Lancaster, as well as not guilty to the charge of grievous bodily harm in the case of Rob Maltby and Sophie Lancaster.
Wow. Okay. It's like, you're going to do everything that you did to them, and you know you did that.
and you're not even gonna take responsibility not even gonna take responsibility like how fucking low are you yeah so since their arrest daniel mallet and the holm brothers they had actually been released on bail wow into the custody of their parents and were expected to adhere to a 9 p .m curfew p .m that's what i said okay i'm glad i wasn't crazy 9 p .m they can go stroll about the streets until 9 p .m i know that you uh murdered an entire person and attacked to people but uh what the just be home by nine damn are you kidding holy shit and the other stipulation was that they were not to have contact
with any witnesses in the case and i'm sure they adhere to that shit and no contact with rob malpy i can't imagine how rob and sophie's family like how rob just trolling around out there and then how sophie's family felt because rob probably felt in danger i'm assuming but yeah i would feel that way and angry oh i would be so angry and he's He's trying to recover.
Yeah, he's trying to get his whole life back in order.
Everything he's gone through and these fuckers just get to run amok.
Yeah, they can just go out and do their regular thing that they're doing.
I'm like, do we not know what happened?
The fuck? Wow. Now, luckily, Ryan Herbert and Brendan Harris, I think they were the ones that the police were most worried about.
They remained in custody.
I think they should have been worried about the entirety of them.
Yeah, absolutely. But because all were under 18, their identities were protected in the press.
jesus but anyone even the press who attended the hearings had been privy to their names yeah and even actually had taken photos of them entering and exiting the court so press was ready with content when the ban on the uh on identifying the attackers was eventually yeah they just were like here you go and they were like boom like that this is who did that now a trial was set for all five boys on march 10th with a pre -trial hearing scheduled for february 22nd 2008 2008.
On February 25th, Bay Cup police held a press conference led by Superintendent Mick Gradewell and Detective Inspector Holden, where the press and the public were finally provided with more details on the attack and the murder.
Holden told reporters, this was the most horrendous crime I have seen in 14 years.
And he went on to describe the four, excuse me, the five boys as feral.
Feral is a perfect way to describe them.
Truly, they are. That really is.
Feral feral beast i'm glad he came up with that word because that really really is it it truly is i can't even actually think of a better word that's really perfect now he also went out of his way to explain that neither rob nor sophie was in any way responsible for this attack they had been targeted because of their appearance and for no other reason mocked up is what he was saying now finally both uh gradwell and holden told the press they believed 15 year old brendan harris to To be the quote unquote primary offender.
That's wild. And then they criticized the parents of all five boys for failing to take the matter seriously and taking a flippant attitude as investigators interviewed their children.
The parents didn't give a shit.
I'm going to stay quiet.
Yeah. That's why when you said something earlier, I was like, oh, don't even feel bad because they were pieces of shit.
And I'll say it. so throughout the investigation he explained most of the parents had laughed about the charges attempted to provide false alibis and were generally hostile and belittling of officers and investigating the case apples didn't fall far from the fucking tree here fucking ashamed of yourself and the sad thing is they're not they're not wow beasts i my brain won't even even come up with words for them that's that's truly abhorrent like that is i am that's a great word for it i am beyond words for that laughing about the charges laughing about them you're laughing about a murder charge
on a young girl's head they don't care can you imagine not caring about that no like because i am obviously figure of speech i know you can't but it's like just like Like, flabbergasting.
No, I can't. And just disgusting.
Yeah, truly disgusting.
That's despicable. Like I said, apples didn't fall far.
Now, several weeks later, Gradwell again publicly criticized the parents of the accused, saying, The only thing these lads think they have done wrong is to be caught.
It was almost as though they were laughing and joking about what they had done.
Parents have got to take much more responsibility.
Fuck yeah, they do.
Because it's like, where the fuck were you when your kid was stomping on someone's face.
Well, look at you. You're laughing about it now.
Right. So, like, it tells everybody everything they need to know.
It does. Now, when the investigators had finished speaking, Sylvia Lancaster also was able to make a statement to the press, and she told reporters about Sophie's life, Sophie's passions, and about how her murder had affected her family.
She explained that she had spent years working with young offenders herself, actually, and even despite what had happened to her daughter, she told them i haven't lost my faith wow that is a strong fucking yeah at one point when sylvia said she knew sophie's appearance had made made her a target in the past a reporter asked did you never ask your daughter to change her appearance so she might not have faced prejudice shown to her that night and sylvia said why would i ask her to change what she was oh i just got like a full chill why would you ask your daughter to change why not why would we be
be asking the person attacked to change and not the attackers oh yeah sophie should have changed it shouldn't be these feral little pricks that need to change like if we're talking about change here i think i know exactly where we start how dare somebody even ask her mother that how dare they yeah now by the time the trial began on march 10 2008 a few things had actually changed in the course of their investigation investigators had discovered quote forensic evidence of blood blood from both rob and sophie on the pants of ryan herbert oops the pants that he was wearing obviously on the evening
of the attack so that provided a direct and damning connection to the murder as a result scared little herbert there realized he had to change his plea from not guilty to guilty on both counts how do you like those apples yep before accepting the plea judge anthony russell wanted to make sure that herbert understood quote the sentence of the court is fixed at life meaning there wouldn't be any negotiations for a lesser sentence good and herbert's defense attorney explained he accepts responsibility for the attack on both victims oh what a big guy he accepts responsibility when we found the actual
physical evidence of it on his goddamn pants right like he accepts responsibility now that there's literally no way to argue against it you should have said he's been forced into accepting responsibility he didn't do that on his own volition precisely but at that point the plea was accepted and he was remanded back into the custody of the Crown.
Months later, after the trial had ended, the press found out that detectives had actually gotten recordings from phone calls that Herbert had made to his mother from Lancaster Farm Young Offenders Institute where he was being held.
And he admitted to her in those calls that he had actively participated in the attack on Robin Sophie and the murder.
In another recording where he did not know that he was being recorded, he actually admitted to other things like, quote, quote, kicking Sophie Lancaster like a football.
Oh, never let him out.
Never. Never let him out.
Now, with him pleading guilty, the four others stood before a judge.
And with regard to the charge of grievous bodily harm to Rob Maltby, all four now pleaded guilty, leaving only the murder charge unresolved.
Now, the prosecuting attorney, Michael Shorrock, I believe is how you say it, he concluded that although there was evidence that all five had participated in the attack on Rob.
There was no evidence actually directly connecting Daniel Mallet or the Holm brothers for the attack slash murder on Sophie.
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So because of that, Judge Russell delivered a verdict of not guilty in the cases of daniel mallett and the holm brothers wow so that left brendan harris as the only individual to stand trial for sophie's murder wow because um because ryan had already admitted to it exactly so all of their attorneys the holm brothers daniel mallett and brendan harris's wanted their clients to be out on bail rather than remanded to the custody of the crown what the fuck do you think you are i'm also like i'm i'm thinking if i'm their defense attorney Attorney, I'd like them to remain in jail or being held because I
don't know what the fuck they're going to do out there to make this case even more difficult.
That's the thing. Like you trust them out there?
Right. You trust your job that much?
Like, damn. Yikes. All right.
Wild. But luckily the judge was like, ha, ha, ha.
I am unmoved by that.
And they were all taken into custody until they appeared for sentencing.
Now, with the new pleas out of the way and the grievous bodily harm charges settled, the trial of brendan harris got underway march 12 2008 in his opening statements prosecutor shoerick told the jury how robin sophie had been targeted for their appearance by this group of teenagers who quote acting like a pack of wild animals savagely and mercilessly beat the couple while quote encouraging each other and laughing that's the thing they're all involved in this whether they were physically involved they were encouraging someone to stomp on someone's head mm -hmm and laughing yeah that's a problem
that's it makes you want to throw up it does now through witness after witness there were actually nearly 50 in total the jury learned the sequence of events that started with rob being slapped in the face and then that escalated quickly to the vicious beating of both he and sophie which again obviously resulted in sophie's murder one witness testified herbert was bending over rob and punching him in the face all five were having a go there you go sophie was trying to push them off others testified to the laughter the mocking comments being directed at sophie as she was trying to protect an unconscious
rob from any more blows before they began directing their violence at her which started with brendan harris delivering a kick to her head as she knelt but knelt beside rob cradling his broken head in her her lap she was just tending to her love and they kicked her in the head and what kills me is that that last oh it's so it's so horrible witnessed in her life was this yeah like that's was like the love of her life being it's brutal hurt it's like that's it's really unthinkable there are not words for this case this is really unthinkable it really is first responders also testified that when they
first arrived arrived excuse me sophie's injuries were so bad that like i said earlier they quote could not distinguish miss lancaster's sex wow throughout the trial the jury heard the recordings of the calls made to 999 by witnesses at the scene and that provided insight to the jury on just how chaotic and absolutely terrifying that scene was for everyone involved at one point jurors listened to a call that was made while the attack was still underway and a hysterical girl could be heard screaming for help amid the chaos and while she was testifying on the stand after the recording was played
she became so emotional on the stand this poor girl that the judge actually eventually determined that she was in no fit state to continue and had to adjourn the court for the day wow it was that emotional and it actually was not the first time or the last time that members of the court or the jury had to take a break after the emotional testimony.
I'm surprised they were ever able to get through this trial.
This is just unbelievably senseless.
And it's so brutal.
It's senseless and so brutal.
Exactly. And it's just there's something about someone using what they've got, their hands and their feet.
Yeah. To do this much damage.
It is that close in proximity to someone literally minding their business.
That is so so brutal.
And just like, what a human can do to another human with their own, with all the same human parts that we all have. You can just kick someone in the head and stomp on them.
When Brendan Harris finally took the stand, he remained as defiant as ever.
Oh, fuck you. Claiming he played no part in the attack.
He said all the witnesses were lying or mistaken.
Yeah, of course they are, you idiot.
And they, and you know, they must have just figured out a way to fake those phone calls.
Yeah, absolutely. His claims were clearly bullshit.
There was plenty of witness testimony and evidence that actually connected him to the crime.
And the prosecutor, Shorick, told him during cross -examination, you recall very well what you did that night, and you do not want anyone to know about it.
You were there until the very end.
You kicked Sophie. You and Herbert caused those horrible injuries to her.
Now, it was during this cross -examination that the jury learned this was actually not the first incident of violence that Brendan Harris had committed in the park.
Four months, four months before Rob and Sophie were attacked, Ryan Harris and Brendan Herbert, oh, excuse me, I just flipped their last name, sorry, attacked another boy in Stubby Lee Park, stomping on his head and kicking him before his own mother dragged him away and reported the assault to police.
Wow. Four months earlier.
And I'm sorry, kicking him and stomping him in the head, does that sound familiar?
Now, are you ready?
This is outraging. They were given community service for this assault That's failure Failure That's pure failure Failure Closing arguments were given on March 27th and the jury retired to deliberate Before sending them away, Judge Russell instructed the jury on their task and said If you are sure that the defendant took part in the attack on Sophie Lancaster And he did intend to kill her or cause serious injury Then he is guilty of murder although he was drunk at the time provided you are sure he actually formed the intention to kill or cause really serious injuries then he is guilty of murder
now after deliberating for a little less than three hours the jury returned a guilty verdict good thank god can you imagine oh no now obviously there was a wave of relief throughout the courtroom people were like erupting and a loud yes from sylvia lancaster now all five boys were returned to court on april 28th 2008 where they were sentenced for their respective crimes for the charge of causing grievous bodily harm to robin sophie daniel mallett was sentenced to four years and four months i'm sorry what four years and four months because it was grievous bodily harm not murder for them joseph
and danny holm were sentenced to serve a minimum of five years and 10 months now luckily ryan herbert and brendan harris were sentenced to double life sentences for the murder of sophie and causing grievous bodily harm brendan was actually required to serve a minimum of 18 years while ryan was sentenced to a minimum of 16 years and three months because he got the lesser sentence there because he pleaded guilty.
Wow. And for the attack on Rob, Harris and Herbert were sentenced to five years and ten months, which was to be served concurrent with the life sentences.
Wow. Now before passing the sentence, Judge Russell addressed the boys saying, this was a terrible case which has shocked and outraged all who have heard about it.
At least wild animals, when they hunt in packs, have a legitimate reason for doing so.
That's what I was thinking too.
I was like, this isn't even animalistic because they usually don't attack unprovoked and they don't attack their own yeah yeah um he said you have none and your behavior on that night degrades humanity itself wow it's like true one out for that judge i like now on october 7 2008 all five had the fucking nerve to appeal their sentences to the court of appeal in london who delivered the response two weeks later in the case of brendan the court felt that judge russell hadn't given quote enough allowance for his plea of guilty excuse me and as a result they further reduced his sentence to 15 years
and six months the other four appeals were rejected luckily but in their report the justices reprimanded all five for their participation in what they described as chilling random and mindless brutality and they praised sophie Lancaster for her remarkable courage demonstrated in her attempt to help her or excuse me to protect her boyfriend that's the thing because she could have run away of course and she didn't and seriously that's that really is and that tells you exactly who she was exactly now in the year since his sentence was passed Brendan Harris has appealed to sentence multiple times
his appeals filed in August 2016 and January 2020 were rejected on grounds that he had not made significant significant progress and he was not deserving of consideration.
Good. The fact that after all that time in jail.
You still haven't made progress.
We know what he's doing in prison, excuse me.
And in February of 2020, Ryan Herbert's appeal was actually considered by a high court judge who found that he had made exceptional progress while in jail, including efforts to further his education through the University of Cambridge where he was taking law courses.
Oh. I'm sorry, he's taking law courses to find a loophole in all of this and also he's taking law courses what sophie get to do while sophie's gone and while rob has probably the the most tragic case of ptsd one could imagine okay cool in march of 2022 the parole board determined that ryan herbert's progress made him a good candidate for the for parole and granted him conditional release Sylvia Lancaster was obviously fucking outraged by this decision and told reporters once again we have a justice system that fails to deliver justice truly so they all just suck that is I can't that's unthinkable
made that fucking decision now Sylvia Lancaster continued speaking out against hate crimes and promoting the message of tolerance through that organization Sophie and eventually through that work she was appointed to the order of the British empire wow which is a prestigious award given to citizens promoting social good in the uk badass now sadly on april 12 2022 actually sylvia passed away from a rare complication that she suffered after a surgery her death came as a complete shock to the community that she supported sylvia and sophie left a legacy of tolerance and unity that spread around the world
through musician artists anybody who embraced this cause yeah now in general rob malpy avoided the press and i 100 understand that he just focuses his attention on the long and hard process of physical and emotional recovery now not surprisingly the trauma he experienced during and after the attack derailed a lot of his plans for the future i hate that it left him paranoid afraid to venture much further than his family's home but in 2017 he did finish his illustration degree yay which He's like, fuck yeah, Rob.
Hell yeah, Rob. And in an interview given to The Guardian, he said that he'd finally begun a new relationship with a young woman that he met online, and he was planning to spend time with her in the U .S. But he also told The Guardian he had always been frustrated with the narrative that Sophie was killed because she was goth.
He told a reporter, no, she wasn't.
She was killed because some arseholes killed her.
Why can't we ask what it is about them that made them want to murder someone, not what it is about someone that made them be murdered?
Yes. yes and i think that is the perfect place to end yes case on absolutely fucking phenomenal point yep stop asking me why she was killed for what she looked and ask why they did it and ask why they fucking did it yeah that's fucked up this is one of the most tragic cases i've ever read in my life that was very painful i want to like do something i know that's just like wow seriously seriously but yeah wow hopefully we can do something haunted yes next week because that was really brutal because that was brutal yeah and we love you guys take care of yourselves yeah be nice to each other do something
in sophie's name this week you know i just think that'd be awesome don't don't be mean to people don't make fun of people yeah just everyone is dealing with their own shit exactly so deal with yours yeah and keep listening uh we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird i am not even telling you not how weird to keep it because you already know you already know If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad -free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.
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hey weirdos you know ash and i have covered some seriously dark tales about romance gone really wrong oh yeah there are so many cases where too good to be true turns out to be exactly that well get ready for a love story that's gonna blow your minds because this one is happening right now and guess this it's hosted by our friends hannah and saruti from red handed meet travis he falls head over heels for lily rose she's gorgeous she's understanding and she's literally perfect faked and she's not human that's right Lily Rose is an AI companion a computer program designed to be Travis's dream woman and at first it seems like a perfect relationship but when Lily
Rose's behavior starts getting strange this love story takes a dark and twisted turn that no one saw coming follow flesh and code on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can binge all episodes early and ad free by joining Wondery Plus us.
