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Hey, weirdos. I'm Alayna.
I'm Ash. And this is Morbid.
whoa you might hear some faint you probably won't actually but if you do you hear if you might hear some faint like rain tip -tapping on the window you guys like that ambiance yeah you guys do like that we've gotten a lot of people who are like i love that sound it's very calming but i don't know how you don't like the sound of rain it's very calming um i you might might not even be able to hear it because we have soundproofing but like you never know I don't know you know I don't know your life I don't know your ears I don't know what you're doing I don't know what you're doing okay who even are you
I'm just kidding you're a weirdo I love you uh so yeah welcome back to part two of the HH Holmes saga yay so excited to be here we're gonna we're gonna gonna get into it today so the first uh part was kind of setting it up where he came from his first marriage how he was a philanderer how he was a schemer how he was a shitty student how he smelled of the smegma how he was a liar and a cheater and a frauder and just he's just an all -around shit person yeah well now we're gonna add murder to his repertoire oh what what a repertoire yeah he's awful and he's gonna get off00 so and then he'll get off
a list yep he's gonna become one of the most awfuls ever so when we last left you guys he had just moved to chicago after he was going to try that whole scheme selling the bodies of the wife and the child of his friend for the insurance all that stuff and then he just abandoned that and then he's like oh that's why there's bones buried in my basement you idiots of course i didn't murder anybody except i I murdered a lot of people, and now I'm going to brag about it.
So, figure it out. So, figure it out.
But, yeah, so we left you there.
So, he's in Chicago now.
And if you know the story of H .H.
Holmes, you know that it really does revolve around Chicago.
Chicago is kind of like the room where it happened.
Very much the room where it happened.
Devil in the White City, there he is.
So, once he'd arrived in Chicago, he somehow passed the exam to become a pharmacist. wow I would think that that's a pretty difficult exam yeah and he was only one of like a like a handful yeah people like I guess he had something in there maybe chemistry was his thing and that's he did a lot of extra stuff with chemistry so maybe he really did give himself a leg up in that department maybe but maybe it just wasn't great in other things or he just wasn't a good student you know yeah exactly that pretty much makes sense but he ended up finding work at at Holton Drugs, which was a pharmacy on the corner
of 63rd and Wallace, and it was owned by an elderly woman named Mrs. Holton.
Ah, Holton Drugs. Isn't it funny to think of, like, stores just being named, like, something?
Drugs. Yeah, just like, Holton Drugs.
Right? But she explained to Holmes that the pharmacy actually belonged to her husband, Dr. E .S.
Holton, but he was very sick, very elderly, you know, ailing at the moment.
He's pissed a lot. H .H.
wants to kick him down the stairs and take over the fucking pharmacy.
Yeah, the fucking pharmacy kid.
And she was finding it a little hard, a little difficult to manage this entire pharmacy by herself.
She was elderly herself.
So, of course, like we said, his ears perked up.
He was sensing opportunity here.
And Holmes told her, huh, I, too, am a doctor.
I thought you were going to say he said, I, too, am sick and elderly.
no he would lie like that though he would just stand there like a 27 year old being like 27 also elderly why don't you believe me but yeah he was like you know what i'm a doctor i have a lot of experience in the pharmacy he did not uh but he's he did pass the pharmacy exam so i think him cheated something happened there but he was like you know what i'm absolutely certain that i can transform this into just a thriving business again, if you just give it to me.
Doubt it. So not long after he began work at the pharmacy, because she believed him, of course.
Yeah. She's a sweet woman.
Dr. Holton did die.
Rip. And he left the store and everything in it to Mrs. Holton.
So Holmes sees this happening and he's like, you know, he's angling to own this store.
so he frames it like he's doing her a favor because he's like you you're old and ailing your husband just died you don't want to run this whole thing so he's like i'll buy this from you and i'll allow you to live on the second floor and she was like kind my god you are so nice so she agreed and he did pay her so she did she used the money that she got by mortgaging the The store's fixtures fixtures fixtures.
Why couldn't I say fixtures.
It's hard. It's a I said like fixtures because you have to do like a titch. Yeah that's hard. You know words are hard in the stock and actually Holmes bought the pharmacy and he rebranded the entire things as H .H.
Holmes pharmacy. So he took out the drugs and he replaced it with pharmacy.
Well there you go. He made it more upstanding.
He was like you know what.
I think we do a little more here than just drugs.
You know what. I'm pretty upstanding.
So let's change this.
In the early days of him owning this new pharmacy, a lot of the customers would come in and they'd ask about Mrs. Holton because people loved her.
She was a sweet old lady.
And every time he would say that she went on a trip to California.
Now, this wasn't strange because this is something she had said she wanted to do, but she never had the money to do it.
Oh, sweetie, she's not upstairs anymore.
And she hadn't returned for several weeks.
no and people are still asking where she is and when they would ask holmes would just be like well you know she just loved california so much that she just stayed there she's just there you can't call her on the phone because like we don't have those the 1800s here so like you did this you know deal with it i guess she stayed with that so there was no actual physical evidence of him having having killed Mrs. Holton, but there's no evidence that he didn't either, and there's probably some circumstantial evidence that points to her probably being killed.
Yeah. I think her disappearance was not so much that she moved away or she went on a vacation to California.
I think he just got rid of that whole situation so that the entire building could be his.
It does sound like that.
And it's very on -brand with what he would do anyways, so it makes sense.
there you go these are things that he would do later so it's like why would we not think that it would be this time i believe she might be his first victim but what about the boy i thought you thought the boy was that one i'm like i go back and forth with that one for sure could be his first victim but you like full -heartedly mrs holton i have very little doubt that he killed mrs holton so she's either his first or his second yeah uh but it should be noted too that there are variations in this story if you're researching this case yourself too like one of the stories is that the woman mrs holton is not super
elderly and that he got ownership of the store in exchange for promising to marry her oh shit um and either her or her daughter like the story never really makes it clear because again he confessed to so many different things that some of these stories got intertwined sure but this seems the one i told seems to be the most correct one okay um but the other story is that like they both go missing missing or one of them goes missing and in another version the woman's name is elizabeth sarah holton who is the doctor and the pharmacy is owned by her and her husband but she's the doctor they said let's
go with the feminist yeah exactly um and that they are a young couple and she decided to sell the pharmacy when she became pregnant so like that's another story in this version the couple doesn't disappear and they were actually still living in the neighborhood afterwards so like it doesn't yeah either way though he wanted the pharmacy he got the pharmacy and then the two people that previously owned the pharmacy were never seen again so like i think the puzzle piece of moida is put together i think so to quote spencer in the department uh yeah to me it just you know mrs holton was older people came
in looking for her she said she went to california she didn't go to california yeah no matter what he took ownership of that pharmacy in late 1886.
So now the pharmacy is open and it seems to be running pretty smoothly with him at the helm, at the very least. He's like, everything seems to be going good.
So like, you know what?
I'm going to look for some romance.
I'd like to point out that he is still married to Clara.
But yeah, there's that.
So he's turning his attention to the ladies now.
When he was in Minneapolis, he met a woman named Miss Myrda Belknap.
Myrda? I think it's Myrda.
they've sparked up a flirtation and she seemed pretty smitten with him at the time and he made his life sound very exciting which like at the time it kind of was he was traveling all over the place um and because at the end of 1886 Myrna's life was small it was kind of unexciting she was in a small town you know like I guess she never really seen the world yeah she lived with her parents in Minneapolis and worked at a music store it was like a cute little existence but like to her that wasn't enough she didn't feel like she was getting out there i get that so holmes seemed very enticing to her
and he was very charming so and he also represented himself as a very intelligent man he's a doctor like that's like whoa hey i mean that's like you're young and you're getting it and he's also a business owner in chicago um so holmes knew all all of this.
And so he wrote to Myrta and courted her very aggressively.
First through letters, and then he did it in person.
Like he was really playing the long game here.
And after only a few months of talking back and forth, he took a bold move and he proposed to Myrta.
And the two ended up being married January 28th, 1887.
Oh, okay. He's still married to Clara.
I was like, how does they just didn't realize in this district because it was like another district.
Oh, Oh, I think it was just in the 1800s and they, like, there's no electronic records happening.
There is the 1800s.
I keep forgetting that.
I'm like, why didn't they know?
Why didn't they just look it up on the computer?
Why didn't they just write that down somewhere?
So Murda was very excited about this marriage, but I think that excitement would have been slightly tempered if he did let her know that he was still married to a woman named Clara.
That'll usually do it.
Yeah. Yeah. Strangely, two weeks after he married Murda, Holmes filed a divorce petition in Cook County Supreme Court against Clara, stating that, quote, On the 28th day of June, 1883, in the city of Ann Arbor, in the state of Michigan, the said Clara A.
Mudgett, wholly disregarding and in violation of her marriage vows, covenants and obligations, committed adultery and had carnal knowledge with one J .M.
Downer. What? So he's claiming they should divorce Clara and he.
Yeah. After he's already married a second woman, by the way.
He's now filing for divorce against Clara, saying Clara committed adultery.
Like, sir, you are...
Number one, you did that super duper backwards.
You're straight up committing adultery.
You motherfucking hypocrite.
Like, you are in the throes of adulterous behavior.
behavior and you are saying she was she adultered years ago what it's a lot he's doing he got married to another woman like are we clear well lena that's his right as a man that's his right he's a man so and he's a doctor it gets even weirder in this divorce decree he also had put in there this he had put in there he further represents to your honor that he has ever since the time You dirty little liar!
I do recall. Does any of that ring as true, kind, or affectionate?
Nor. No. Nor. Oh, well, he also added into the decree that their six -year -old son, Robert, quote, is now living and is under the care, custody, and control of your orator, Herman Webster Mudgett.
That simply wasn't true and never was.
Wait, so he was saying like I take care of the child?
He literally had put in the divorce decree that that child is now living and is under the care, custody, and control of him.
And that's not at all the truth.
He had been with Clara the entire time.
Also, that's so easy to prove.
truth. At one point, he tried to go get Robert and take custody.
And she was like, no, bitch. I remember.
And it didn't happen.
Right. But he's now having it put in the decree that Robert is in his custody.
I don't know if he thought he would get more money or something like that or something.
He absolutely thought that.
But like, you're an idiot.
And again, so easy to prove.
Like you go to his house.
Does he have a child's bedroom?
Yeah. Like the end?
The end. And then also, you don't want that child.
So you're just doing that to be an asshole.
Oh, Oh, for sure. But how many parents do that?
Oh, my God. 100%. They don't actually want custody of the child.
They just want to do it to hurt the other parent.
What? And it's like, fuck you.
Yeah. So, they looked, and no one could ever find a JM downer either that Clara supposedly had carnal knowledge with, by the way.
What does that even mean?
They fucked. Oh. Carnal knowledge is fucking?
That's fucking. That's fucking?
He likely didn't exist. Carnal knowledge.
He likely did not exist. No. Holmes was a lying sack of shit, but it doesn't really matter anyways, because he also failed to show up on any follow up on any of the administrative requirements and the petition yeah and the petition like i hear that but like and the petition just lapsed it was eventually dismissed by the court for quote default of appearance of complainant it's unclear whether clara ever even received notice of his intention to divorce her i don't even think she knew he ever wanted to divorce her so he didn't get divorced you know what this is giving a little bit sheena and raquel
he makes this fake tro except it's not a tro and he doesn't even show up for that fucking hearing he doesn't that's where my head's at except he except he actually like should have just divorced clara like why are you not getting divorced yeah i don't understand like several women at a time that well he's the sandoval in it all now so like he said obviously Obviously, that's exactly what you think of with H .H.
Holmes. But like his marriage to Clara, Holmes's relationship with Murda started off like that of like any couple in love.
She helped him run the pharmacy and she became very just like impressed and enamored with his work ethic because he was really running this shit.
Like she thought, wow, what a cute family we are.
Like I'm helping you run your pharmacy in Chicago and we're so successful.
And she later said, quote, ambition has been the curse of my husband's life.
he wanted to attain a position where he would be honored and respected he wanted wealth and again we see the hallmark of his behavior is always based on money he's gotta be there's gotta be capricorn in his chart i'm pretty i think his birthday he's a cancer like uh son but i'm like there's capricorn somewhere in there money motivated and to a fault but in the spring of that year Murda actually became pregnant and the bulk of the work she did was shifting you know off of her and her husband had to kind of like take a bigger role back in the pharmacy see I want to be excited for her but I feel
like it's gonna end bad no you definitely don't want to be excited for this whole thing but um she was separated from Holmes a lot like she was kind of she had to be in the back right like she could do office work so she was just kind of relegated away from the public too and she was lonely yeah yeah she got lonely so her parents moved from minneapolis to wilment a small village about 15 miles outside of chicago i love that they were like we'll be with you we'll come and hang with you and after they had like settled in there murda moved in with her parents and gave birth to their daughter lucy
cute um at first murda's parents were very suspicious of hh homes well because this all came about very very quickly like married baby business and I feel like parents they know it's like he went after young women yeah at the time and he and he went after young men for like schemes and stuff so he he was always going for people who he knew he could con like young and unexperienced but older people I feel like like elderly people fell for it but at somewhere in between like the parents of the whole generation were like something is sus about you and I don't know what it is and he didn't exactly
endear himself to them.
Despite his wife and child living in the house, he was barely there.
Like he never came to visit.
So they were like, do you want to see your infant child?
No. No. Okay. Well, literally never came to see them.
That's good. Immediately they began to question the kind of man that their daughter had married and had a child with.
And soon though, he was able to charm his way into their good graces.
I'm not sure how, but it took a lot of Xiu Xing on his his part it was mainly when they saw the ways that he like he wasn't around all the time but he showered murda and the baby with gifts and adoration every time he would be there so he would love bomb a lot of the time he was there when he was there he was there he was just never there and he also that was beautiful you know poetry he also always had an excuse for his long absences it was never just like oh whatever fuck it like working is always like oh my god i know It's just like running a business.
I'm just such a businessman.
Business money motivated.
That it's like, look at this briefcase.
I'm very important.
Meanwhile, there's nothing in it.
It just opens and it's just like a moth flies out.
But he would say that things were busy at the store and there was so much to do in Chicago and making it seem like he was just up to his neck in work and he was just trying to support his little family.
And according to Eric Larson, who I will source his work in our show notes, Holmes' manner manner of dress and how he would frequently give a lot of gifts and like he was always about the material things that really gave off and especially back in those days like that he was a man of importance like he gave off that air to everybody dress for the job you want not the job you have that's the thing he was very concerned with that like he always wanted to present himself as being a man of importance a man of means a man of power and it honestly went a long way to making her her parents at least be
eased a little bit, thinking, well, he's going to take care of them.
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As this is happening he is now thinking about that infamous murder castle that everybody knows about because now he's in chicago he's settled there he's in an apartment like above the pharmacy but he wants more and he's got grand grand plans and during the later decades of the 19th century chicago was going like there was a huge population boom a lot of people were moving west for work an opportunity and like a bigger brighter life kind of like how everybody's like oh my god let's go to california and become stars like it's the same kind of thing california new New York, Chicago.
Same vibes. Yeah, exactly.
As a result, new buildings were popping up all over the city because people were coming in.
The economy was starting to boom.
People were trying to make way for a ton of residents to be living there, big apartment buildings.
And since arriving in Chicago and starting work, Holmes had been eyeing this empty lot that happened to be across the street from the pharmacy and finally in the summer of 1888 he managed to buy it and at the time he registered the deed under the false name hs campbell this is the beginning of him using many many aliases to get many many things also can i just know it wasn't 1888 jack the ripper uh yeah so they were operating at the same time that's so crazy to think about like two of the the world's most fucking notorious serial killers operating at the same time and it's opposite ends of the world
yeah it's like so really wild yeah crazy that's why a lot of people think there was some like layover between the two really like a lot of people thinks hh holmes is jack the ripper oh okay vice versa oh um i think we talked about it in the episodes yeah it's a i don't know it's a theory i was like i was like we mentioned it but but we we didn't go super into it because i I don't, one, I haven't looked too, I haven't looked hard enough into that theory to be convinced by it yet.
And I don't want to give a full opinion on something that I haven't given the full court press to.
Well, and it kind of seems like, at least from what I know, H .H.
Holmes' like operation of murder is very different than Jack the Ripper's, right?
It is. And he's mainly money motivated with his murders.
And Jack wasn't. But he liked killing as well.
well like hh holmes liked killing and he liked killing women yeah he did enjoy that and it did it wasn't to me hh holmes isn't just a i kill for financial gain sometimes it's i killed because i wanted to kill right or i killed because this bitch was in my way essentially yikes like not that's essentially no no i would say you know and it's like that's how he kind of presented himself is like she was a problem yeah so out she had to go damn and the way he would talk about it was was very cold like that like well she became an issue so down the chute she went crazy and he was very like intricate
about the ways he would do it to me it doesn't really line up so far with what i've seen between the two cases because of mainly because of the two i think environments with which they were killing in are so vastly different that their methods of murder don't add up together but i don't know if that has to do with the environments yeah possibly that the person tailored himself to those environments right um but who knows I mean when we talked about it in um when we talked actually when we talked about uh it with Tobias he made a valid point of like it would show we always thought but like I'm
like I don't know in Whitechapel if it was like somebody like H .H.
Holmes who dressed like a man of importance all the time and was very like showy he would stick out like a sore thumb and it's like so i don't know but then the reports of jack the ripper that he did look a little fancy so it's like but you don't know you know like we've come through a lot of different theories with that and it's like it could be mistaken it could be i don't know i just hate the unknown it's an interesting theory and i will look further i'm you know what i'll probably look further into it by the end of this series because i would like to touch upon it more by the end but i definitely
want to look further into it and look at some dates and look at you know because i know there was some possibilities that hh was out of the country at certain times and that maybe jack had left at certain times and it would be how fucking crazy would it be if he was jack the ripper it would because 1888 is when jack ended right 1888 jack was still going oh he was still going okay all right um but but he did like i think this is when he was coming to an end so which is interesting because this is really when when he was getting to a started beginning going over here so that is interesting it definitely
is i'll be i'm excited to hear what you have to say once you are able to look more into it i definitely want to look further into it for sure for the divergence there and we'll talk about it yeah don't worry uh it's really not a divergence though because it's all the same cool uh but so we were saying that by the summer of 1888 he had registered this lot across the street from the pharmacy under the false name H .S.
Campbell. So, this is when Holmes committed the first murder that he would wholly admit to.
Okay. He claimed he killed a friend and former schoolmate named Dr. Leacock.
Now, he did this because this man had a large life insurance policy, and he said he lured his friend to Chicago under some kind of bullshit pretense, gave him, quote, an overwhelming dose of laudanum, and killed him that way.
After his murder, Holmes took the body of Leacock to Grand Rapids, Michigan.
He did this because it would look like Leacock had died accidentally in his home.
And then he collected the $40 ,000 from the life insurance policy.
Kind. Now, this is one of the murders people waver about because he loved to talk about murder and mayhem when he was caught.
And he really wanted to make everybody like, you got to know, I'm a fucking monster.
Like, he wanted you to know.
He was like, let me tell you how bad I am.
he doesn't need to make us believe he is a fucking monster that's the thing like he has no need to exaggerate and yet he does all the time it's very strange but either way there is mention a lot in his youth like in his early days in any research you see of a classmate at college named robert leacock now he was actually the one that holmes claimed helped him originally come up with the idea of faking a death and using a medical dead body to claim insurance fraudulently.
So it would be a little poetic of Holmes to then use that plan on his friend who he came up with it with, but take it to another level and just murder him for it.
Like it would be something he would do.
That's a lot. And when he confessed, he said, quote, like the man -eating tiger of the tropical jungle i roamed about the world seeking whom i could destroy dramatic that's him yeah that's him that's him and his mustache very dramatic uh now for the so this all began this is what began the murder castle idea it was what he said okay he said after this whole scheme after he went through with it he got the money he was ready to go he said i had this grand idea for a murder castle and according to holmes the design and the purpose of it really came to him all at once after this this was like the igniting
thing yeah like an epiphany yeah he said he originally envisioned a massive three -floor building three stories up the first floor would have retail shops pharmacies jewelry shops clothing stores in his words he said it would be quote to generate income and allow him to employ as many women as possible that he could then murder that he could then murder okay the second and third floors were going to be apartments for rent and he was going to have his own very fancy apartment in the giant corner unit of the second floor like essentially kind of like a penthouse exactly and he would have a large
window that he could gaze over 63rd and wallace like just i just got distracted my palace like i kind of want that i know you don't want this one no now this was all the normal logistics of a building it seems yeah like that seems like a very normal building it seems great except all the women and it seems innocuous to a certain extent sure pretty normal seems like some kind of he seems like a piggy guy who just wants to like hire women he's like doug dimadome there you go so well this part was important to him like that it was important to him to have a very front -facing business model a very
front -facing looking building that yeah no one could question but what was more important to him was these macabre little details that were going to be hidden inside the bones of the building They were much more important and much more exciting to him in particular.
To us, they're fucking horrifying.
To give you an idea, some of the features he wanted was a giant chute that would extend from one of the apartments on the second floor all the way down to a secret chamber in the basement that would seal off.
Then, he also wanted a large room in his own personal apartment that you would have to walk into, and then there was a walk -in vault in that that was airtight with iron walls.
balls. Oh, why would you want that?
Also, how do you talk to the contractors about all of this?
We'll get to that, don't worry about it.
He also wanted gas jets throughout the entire building that would be controlled only in his personal office, so he could turn on gas and just gas you anywhere he wanted to.
No one's going to notice that in the blueprint.
Nope. He also, don't worry, we're going to get to that.
He also wanted a large basement with secret storage chambers inside that would seal off.
Okay. And like you said, your first thought is, how are you going to get this built, my guy?
How are you going to do this?
Well, he wanted this all to be very practical from the sense of his murderous intentions, obviously.
He needed easy ways of disposing of and hiding dead bodies.
He was not willing to bend on any of this.
This was his vision.
But he also wanted this psychological aspect to it.
Like, he knew this was all there, but no one else was going to know this was there.
He knew the gas jets would be there, but the guests wouldn't.
and he loved the idea of this like whole like i know but they don't kind of thing and it all just fed into his desire to like just fuck with people yeah and also kill people but he knew like we do that even though he wasn't willing to bend on any of this he was making this happen he knew that um these curious design aspects maybe would draw a little suspicion from any architect like you said Perhaps.
So without any kind of skill set in designer building, he actually began drawing up plans for the building himself.
That's really crazy.
Yeah, that's the thing that kills me with him.
He's one of those people that you're like, you could have done something great if you had just put your mind to it.
Like you weren't a brilliant guy, but you had a working, you had hard work ethic when you put your fucking mind to it.
But not for a good cause.
But you put it to terrible causes.
Exactly. And it's like this, like you're learning a skill set yourself to accomplish something.
something but you're accomplishing a skill set to build a murder castle because you're scared someone will figure it out what a wild fucking like like this is a wild person too like this is real like what this is real and what's so there was a population boom in chicago like i said at the time people were moving over there and it meant that there was going to be no shortage of labor like people were going to be wanting to work on these kind of things but there was again still still that problem that these workers were going to ask too many questions.
So even though he had put together the blueprints and he was going to have somebody help him, he devised a strategy that would allow him to get the building constructed without any suspicions.
The plan was he was going to constantly change the architects, buildings, laborers.
None of them were going to be able to get a clear or complete picture of what was being built.
They wouldn't be able to ask any questions because they were only going to get bits and pieces of it.
I feel like that's like that's such a gamble to take his whole life was a fucking gamble everything he did was a gamble i'm just thinking of like work we've had to do on the house and i'm like wow i can't imagine being like okay you finished that now i'm gonna call someone else like you just and what he would do was he would just not pay the person and be like fuck you you're you're fired bye and then just bring someone else in and be like okay start working on this you're creating so many issues for yourself and they would just be more confused really like they'd just be like what and not realize
how weird all of this was together and also due to the lax inspection processes in chicago at the time and the limited protections for laborers he was going to be able to get away with not really paying anybody like it really wasn't going to be an issue like you were saying too people are so desperate for work that they're probably not asking that many questions exactly that's the other thing he's banking on that but it is a really like cunningly smart thing to do to one start the blueprint process yourself to make sure you get all those weird things in there right then hire architects have them
work a little more on it then fire them before they're done hire another one to build off that other thing hire fire that one bring in laborers to start building this little extension fire them when they're done with it hire another one to do that one like that way you're getting it piece milled together and nobody can fully get a full picture of what's happening here maybe they know a chute is in there but they're like what's that chute for and you're like, I don't know, garbage, bye.
Like it's just no one can really get into the like nitty gritty of what's happening.
It's like you're giving everybody a little piece of the puzzle, but like.
But nothing that they can jump off of.
Exactly. Construction of the quote unquote murder castle, which he was calling the Holmes Castle.
Yeah. Began in the summer of 1889.
Again, partially working from Holmes's own design blueprints and also working from plans partially developed by local architects.
two of which were Charles Berger and Edward Gallner.
The labor and materials were going to be from Etna iron and steel.
Holmes was ready to begin using this murder castle before it was even started, though.
Like he was like, let's go.
Before the foundation had even been completed, he was already making plans to get this thing going.
Early in the construction, he actually approached a bricklayer named George Bowman, and he approached him with a very strange proposition.
I'm nervous. It was just a bricklayer.
Just doing his job.
Yeah. I know about HH Homes and Bricks.
Yeah. Now Bowman later said, he asked me if I wouldn't like to make money easier than what I was doing.
And of course I told him yes.
Yeah. Who wouldn't?
And according to Bowman, he said, a few days later, he came over to me and pointing down into the basement said, you see that man down there?
Well, that's my brother -in -law and he's got no love for me.
Neither have I for him.
Now it would be the easiest matter for you to drop a stone on that fellow's head while while you're working and i'll give you 50 if you do it what 50 well at the time oh we're talking i know i gotta keep remembering that's a lot i'm like 50 that's it for the murder of a man it's honestly unknown what the purpose of this kill proposition was to be quite honest he probably just wanted to see that he could do it he that's he wanted to either make money oh that's from some avenue by doing this or he was just honestly asking to see if bowman was a guy he could trust i think he was looking for a guy
he could trust but either way bowman quit and never returned to the job smart man he was like bye no thank you trust me though not everyone working the job site was so kind and willing to run away from this man in april of 1889 homes met um excuse me and um it was in late it's later than april in 1889 i had the wrong month homes met a carpenter by the name of Benjamin Peitzel.
I think it's Peitzel.
I think you're right.
At first, Peitzel's job was to take care of the horses that were going to be used on the construction site because, again, we're in the 1800s.
Oh, my God, we are?
We are. But over time, he actually gained Holmes's trust a lot and he became like an assistant to Holmes, like a personal assistant.
Peitzel was a little like Holmes.
He had a history of petty crimes, misdemeanors, kind of a ne 'er -do -well.
And eventually it all caught up to him and he was arrested for passing bad checks in Indiana while he was still working for Holmes.
Don't stand up, man.
So Holmes actually bailed Peitzel out of jail.
Yeah, that's his right hand.
He paid the amount in bad checks, by the way.
He bailed him out with bad checks.
Bailed the man sitting in jail for bad checks out of jail with bad checks.
Holmes is nothing but a poet.
Peitzel failed to return to Indiana for the trial.
So now they were just like, nothing could happen.
They're like, we're out.
They're like Jay -Z and Beyonce on the run together.
They're thick as thieves together because now they're the boss and the assistant.
It's like the assistant to the regional manager from the office.
There you go. Now, after a year or two, the unpaid bills and the schemes and the lying and the fraud, it started to catch up with Holmes.
That'll happen. Unfortunately, for the most part, though, individual laborers, many of them were immigrants.
They had no way of getting the money owed to them.
him that's so fucked yeah and that sucks he just got away with that but remember he's using etna iron and steel for the supplies that's a major company who doesn't give a shit about your feelings so they sued his ass and when he didn't pay his debts they were like we're fucking taking all this back dude but when they sued him in the fall of uh in the fall of 1889 he tried to use like usual bullshit tactics and excuses that he did to get out of paying them one thing he did was he changed the deed on the property to make it look like it was owned by his mother -in -law yeah so he said he wasn't responsible
for the debt because it was in her name how do you just do that he just did that like what for the most part like so literally he had first registered that deed under a false alias right but that's and then when he started getting in trouble he just shifted it all into his mother -in -law's name it was like these are her debts i don't know what you're talking about i love that and like nobody was like yeah dude like clearly you just did that yeah that's the thing back then you could do that easily you can shift out like who's gonna catch you you know you just like write her name in there and you're
like there it is you just like spit on the previous writing rub it off exactly so for the most part all his like legal shit was handled by his lawyer edward marr who actually did manage to successfully push off creditors for a while but he was and he was honestly his lawyer till he was like executed essentially damn um and he did manage to help him out in this scenario i think they just like kind of backed off a little bit because it was under her name that was going to be an issue but you wouldn't think this murder castle would be like you would think that this would be a very very long process of building this thing.
It's huge. And with all the specifics.
It's an annoying long project.
There's all the constant turnover of workers and architects.
There's legal troubles now associated with it.
But the actual construction of the building happened really quickly.
Really? It was literally like pretty much done by the end of 1889.
Wow. So like a year.
Excuse me. It was done by 1890.
Okay. So like two -ish years.
Yeah. That's crazy.
They were putting like finishing touches on it until 91, but it was essentially like livable at that point.
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Holmes had already moved Myrda, Lucy, and her mother, the one he had thrown own the deeds into into the large corner apartment on the second floor i think that's how he was able to get away with doing these kind of things was he would then don't worry about it don't worry about it i'm handling it here's your beautiful penthouse yeah like here you go it's like a jada essence hall look over there exactly so yeah they all got to live on there and a short time later he sold the drug store across the street the original one that he got from mrs holton um and the new owner who bought it he was like
oh like you're gonna love it here you have no competition there's no other drugstore like you're the only pharmacy like i'm telling you this place is gonna be a booming it's great like don't worry about it and he was like oh great business see you later bye he turns around and opens a new drug store on the first floor of the murder castle what an actual douchebag yeah but that's a perfect example of why you don't just have a an agreement by word of mouth he's such a dick yeah like he's just such a dick yeah he does things just to be a dick he's such a fuck boy he gets kicks he really is he loves
it now among the first few because again you don't know which one is his first murder victim that's so crazy but among the first among them um in chicago was john dubry and it was actually one of his investors in the murder castle uh it was a man that holmes owed money to dubrai have had actually arrived in chicago to see the ad the complete completed construction of the castle and to get his money that he owed uh this was on april 18th 1891 because like i said in 91 it was like dunsky sure and he hadn't even entered the building when he actually dropped to the ground outside the the pharmacy
and began convulsing oh according to benjamin nixon who was like uh i think he was in the jewelry store on the first floor he might have even um owned it i think he saw holmes rush outside to debry's side and quote poured a dark liquid down debry's throat and he died immediately on the street i wonder so did would holmes have anything to do with his convulsions beforehand hand or no idea or if it was just a happy accident that he was able to pour something down his throat that would kill him instantly holy shit i don't know but debry's death may not like he didn't get any money from it but he
didn't lose any money either well yeah because he's gonna have to pay him yeah so he kind of did get money out of it and he would have had to pay a small fortune to him i mean he was an investor in the thing that was a lot he was essentially a loan on the castle that he didn't have to pay anymore.
Right, so he did get money out of it.
Now, during the construction of the castle and into its first year, he was engaged in a lot of schemes, like little schemes.
Like the snake oil salesman kind of schemes.
He would sell mineral water to people and say it would cure all the shit, but it was just vanilla -infused tap water.
Sounds kind of good.
He would con widows out of their pensions.
He was very into that.
he's such a yeah like low -down fucking asshole he is a low -down just dirt bag yeah he really is I mean he's capable of murder so obviously but like so low down then every way though the little like like petty crimes on top of widows out of pensions yeah I just want an elderly woman to beat him over the head with her purse but he was still very committed but while doing these schemes he was committed to his murder for profit idea.
That was his main thing.
And in 1891, shortly after everything was done, Holmes approached a woman who did his laundry and he had a proposition.
Oh God! And she was the laundress for like the actual castle.
I know. He would pay the one, he said, I'll pay you $6 ,000.
That's a lot. Back then, yeah.
I'll pay you $6 ,000 to take out a life insurance policy in the amount of $10 ,000.
Which is even more.
And she was like, why the fuck would you pay me to do that?
Like, I don't understand.
Why would I do that?
And he said, well, then after you die, I would make $4 ,000 profit on the investment.
And in the meantime, you can spend the $6 ,000 however you want.
You just get $6 ,000 free and clear.
And this woman was really young and her job as a laundress really didn't make her any money.
So she was going to absolutely agree to this.
She was like, of course I want $6 ,000 right now.
Nothing is ever that good.
Like he had her, but then he apparently leaned in close to her and softly said, don't be afraid of me.
And if that was Thomas Shelby, sign me up.
Like I will buy that life insurance policy.
Does he say that to people?
Like, no, but I just thought that's something that Thomas Shelby would absolutely do.
Like he has that vibe.
Okay. Like I'm not afraid, but this is Herman Webster Mudgett who smells like scrotum.
Exactly. so she immediately said something about him just i that was off it scared me and she was like i immediately declined the offer anybody that says don't be afraid of me for out of the blue no reason i'm afraid and i think he was trying to do the like don't be afraid of me like you know what i mean like aren't i charming like and like being so on my nose that like but you're like you actually are scary like that's what i meant when i said like if time if killian murphy is leaning into to you and saying don't be afraid of me i'm like i'm not you know what though i would still be afraid i
would not the sexy harry motherfucking styles could walk up to me and say don't be afraid of me and i'd be like you know what harold it's been a good run it's been a good fucking run but herman webster mudgett says that to me and i'm like bye i would run so far away so that this lady was like absolutely not just like what is wrong with you yeah he's trying some shit so it's like when people say like i don't bite i'm like yeah i figured because we're all humans here yeah exactly so in 1890 like the year before yeah after a long bidding and like crazy process it was announced that the next world's
columbian exposition would be held in chicago and it was going to be held between may and october of 1893 so this timing was supposed to coincide with the celebration of christopher columbus's arrival in north america holy shit uh the world's exposition was a huge fair with all the fair accoutrements.
And it was held in and around Jackson Park.
It was going to be celebrating the scientific and technological advancements of the modern world.
It was so funny to think about.
Very mustache twisty and bowler hat wary and old sport kind of vibes, you know, like everyone's got a cane.
Loves it. Yeah, it just feels right.
Parasols in the air.
Yeah, you just don't care.
Exactly. The fair was going to be a massive spectacle it was going to very much draw in hundreds of thousands of visitors to Chicago visitors it was going to be a huge huge boom for the local economy economy it was a huge win for them to get it here and a huge win for Mr. H for Chicago and Holmes he was probably pretty psyched about tourist dollars coming in like regular ones like you know there was going to be a lot of boom in the economy that's good for everybody but he was not one to waste opportunities that were just going to stroll into his life especially if it involved bringing unsuspecting
women into his orbit exactly so he was like well this is even better like this works for me so so that's when ned and julia connor arrived in chicago no they were in need of work a place to stay and somebody they knew was like you should check with this guy hh homes he's got a new building i'm sure there's employment opportunities in it there's also places to live like he's a perfect guy to go to and apparently they were right because he had a jewelry store on the first floor and he happened to need somebody to work there it was crazy oh wow so ned was hired like on the spot to work in that jewelry
store and they ended up moving into an apartment in the holmes castle better still holmes was like julia can work in the pharmacy with me oh god and i can train her to keep the the books like you guys just got two jobs in one that's wild and then Julia's sister Gertrude moved into the city a few months later and he was like I'll employ her as well wow what a great guy such a nice guy oh and that's so sad too that they probably were like wow like how lucky are we and like what a kind guy like he's just like ready to help people who come into the city now to Ned things felt like wow we've been really
struggling and this is finally falling all into to place.
But he said that there was always something about H .H.
Holmes that he said made him uncomfortable.
He just didn't like it.
It was probably the smegma.
He seemed overly interested and attentive to Julia and Gertrude.
Yeah. I grossed him out, made him feel weird. I had that feeling.
He continued to feel some type of way about Holmes as they started to become better acquainted.
And he said he kept noticing stranger and stranger behavior.
He was just an odd guy.
And he said on one occasion, information Holmes was like I got something to show you Ned and he was like okay and he showed him that large vault that he'd installed in his uh his apartment and he showed him another one in the basement and he showed him one in the basement and said Ned step inside no and Ned stepped inside and he closed the door and before he closed the door he said I just want to show you how well this is soundproofed oh my god and so he shut the door and he said I shut the door and put my ear to to the crack but could only hear a faint sound and he was immediately worried and put
off by the fact that holmes had made a point of showing him this weird secret vault and then demonstrating to him how it locks and how by the way ned no one will hear you in here he let him out of it so terrifying this was definitely a just so you know this is where i can put you we're moving out in In two and a half minutes.
Goodbye. Bye. Now, over time during this whole thing, because remember, Holmes is paying a lot of attention to Julia.
Like, it's getting weird. So things between Ned and Julia are becoming strained.
Right. Because she's kind of fallen for it.
Julia baby. Because, again, H .H.
Holmes is very charming.
He's got it all. These women are being told the world.
They are seeing the world.
They are seeing him as this very important guy, this very wealthy and connected guy.
And at the same time, they're making money.
Exactly. Now, they're arguing a lot, Ned and Julia, and, you know, he was really having trouble with how much attention was being paid to her and how she was seeming to like it.
And he later told reporters, I finally told her we could not go on that way.
I told her on a certain day we would quit, that she could go her way and I would go mine.
And when that day came, I did not go upstairs to our room, but stayed downstairs and slept in the barbershop.
Oh, that's so sad. So in the months that followed this, Ned tried to get his relationship back on track.
He was like, we were fine before.
This is ruining everything.
Like this guy literally came in and just like took complete control over you.
And Gertrude, her sister, left the city a while later.
So like she wasn't around anymore.
So now it was just Julia.
And he was trying to fix it but during this time Holmes suddenly offered out of nowhere to sell Ned the pharmacy what on the first floor and does Ned even have like pharmacy experience well and he was like I want you to own the store like not be a pharmacist but I want you to own the business and of course Ned is like hell yeah are you kidding me and he's like this is going to be the thing that's going to improve me and Julia's relationship I'm going to be a business owner like I'm going to take her attention but unfortunately the business made things worse because Holmes had sold it to him knowing
he hadn't paid a fucking dime to any of his creditors and now those debts sorry Ned those are your debts now.
He inherited all of those.
So now not only is he struggling to keep this thing afloat but he's now having creditors coming after him for money that he didn't that he didn't do.
No. Now the issues between Ned and Julia were made way worse by the fact that Julia had actually given birth to a daughter named Pearl.
Pearl. So any divorce would include a pretty unpleasant custody agreement between the two of them.
So it was getting, the discord is just getting worse and worse.
Very contentious. But things were not improving between them.
The pharmacy was being a huge money pit and a big struggle on both of their lives.
So Ned told Holmes, I took a job with a jewelry company in downtown Chicago.
I don't want the pharmacy.
I want out. And a short time after he'd left the castle, Ned made one final attempt to try things, to make things work with julia but by then she was engaged in a full affair with homes very uninterested in ned julia refused to get back together and ned packed up his things and moved to uh gilman illinois and he filed for divorce and he signaled his intent to gain custody of pearl i hope he did keep hoping that so by the fall why you say that to me so by the fall homes had moved Myrta and Lucy yeah his wife and child you might remember yeah they were they living sorry were they in his apartment
or were they in the oh they were in their apartment uh remember he's also married to Clara still yep and Myrta and he's also having an affair with Julia yeah so how does he even keep all their names straight yep so well don't worry he moved Myrta and Lucy his wife and child um into a house several miles away okay in downtown downtown Chicago.
And he was just spending most of his time at the castle where Myrta didn't know it, but he was having a full blown affair with Julia Connor.
So this affair was super intense, like very passionate, very intense.
And Holmes kept telling her, I'm going to marry you.
I'm going to marry you.
And it's like, my guy, you're married to two other women.
You're not even supposed to be married to the woman you're married to.
And Julia knows that he's married.
And it's like, if he's telling you he's going to marry you, do you really think that means that much to him?
No. So he's constantly promising he's gonna marry her but once Ned left Chicago suddenly it all yeah because it's not as exciting.
Yeah all of a sudden he'd lost interest. The risk of getting caught was gone.
There was really no there wasn't for a bit of fruit anymore.
Right. And he's uninterested by it.
That's so fucked. So by November of 1891 Julia told Holmes Holmes, that she was pregnant.
Again? Yeah. Oh. Remember, Pearl is Ned's child.
Yes, yes. No, I know.
But she's pregnant again.
Oh, no. So, said, now you have to marry me.
He doesn't think so.
Holmes was like, okay.
And then he was like, yeah, I guess I do have to marry you.
So, he was like, yep, I'll marry you, but on one condition.
And she was like, what is that?
And he said, you're going to get an abortion.
Oh, my God. And he said, and I'm going to perform it.
Oh, God. odd oh no julia reluctantly agreed and several weeks later she was on an operating table that he had put together in one of the empty apartments on the second floor of the house of the castle that's dirty she's on the table he poured chloroform onto a rag and held it to her mouth and nose to sedate her uh but he should have only had to do that for like a second instead he just held it on there held it into place and continuously dripped more and more chloroform onto the rag while it was on her face she struggled to get off and tried to fight him off but after several minutes of this horrific torture
he felt for a pulse and she was gone as well as the unborn child wow wild that he could do that to a woman carrying his child yeah it gets worse Oh.
He then walked into Pearl's bedroom.
Oh, no. And did the exact same thing to Pearl.
Oh. A child who was likely about five or six.
Oh, my God. Oh, I hate him so much. Or maybe not even.
She might have been like four.
Oh, my God. Now, once everybody was dead, Holmes contacted a man named Charles Chappell, who Holmes knew was a trained articulator.
What is that? a person trained in stripping the flesh from human bodies in preparation for medical instruction.
Wish I never asked.
Yeah. He'd make them into an articulated skeleton, essentially.
Great. Charles Chappell asked absolutely no questions when he was led to an empty apartment in the castle where a dead body was.
He knew Holmes was a doctor, and he just kind of accepted the claim that he had been doing some kind of dissection, and he wanted this body cleaned.
So we offered him $36 to clean the body, make a fully articulated skeleton and skull and he was like sure so chapel returned the body afterwards and home sold her skeleton to the uh hainman medical college in chicago no one knows what happened to pearl uh but when investigators excavated the basement of the castle they did find the bones of a child between the what they think is the ages of four to ten years years old oh so it could have been her sweet pearl now in the days after this julia's neighbors mr and mrs john crow who worked who lived in the in the castle asked about her and pearl where did
she go where did they suddenly disappear and no one else in the building had seen them for days and finally they caught up with holmes and they were like what happened and he was like oh julia and Pearl left early for a planned trip to Davenport Iowa um obviously like you didn't she tell you and they were like I don't know about that but they were like okay I guess we have to just accept this explanation right and it was only after his arrest that they learned that Julia had never gone to Davenport oh they didn't learn until after he was arrested and then imagine like obviously they have no reason to
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So in January 1892, a new family moved into the Connors' old apartment, the Julia and Ned Connors' apartment in Pearl.
and when they arrived in to move in they found it completely the way it was the dishes were still out on the table pearl's clothes were laid out on a chair oh my god it was like they had just walked out one afternoon and never returned which is what happened what happened right holmes explained to them that julia the person who had lived here before her sister had become ill a few weeks earlier and she and pearl had had to leave right away to tend to her and according to homes there was no need to pack up their belongings as julia and pearl were well provided for and would not be coming back i'd
be like yeah that's great but like you're the landlord you should have this place to clean out asshole yeah like what the fuck like i have to just like take all this shit out of here now and move mine in yep now he gave a different version of this story to others when when they asked because of course he's giving three different things about what happened to julia and pearl it's also like maybe you should stick with the same story brother yeah i mean glad you didn't but yeah when others asked he claimed that julia had briefly come back in early january to settle up rent she'd owed him and at that time
quote announced not only to me but to her neighbors and friends that she was going away yeah she didn't say that to anybody though but But apparently he knew ahead of time that Julia had mentioned to others that she had plans to visit her sister in Iowa at some point.
So the story would seem legit.
He had planned this all out.
He also vehemently denied any claims or rumors that he had any kind of inappropriate sexual relationship with Julia.
They were just friends.
What are you talking about?
Yeah, for sure. Even though, like, it was very clear, like very, very clear, like Ned knew, everybody knew.
but he later said quote that she is a woman of quick temper and perhaps not always a good disposition may be true but that any of her friends and relatives will believe her to be an amoral woman or one who would be a party to a criminal act i do not think okay jan um so that happened in the spring of 1892 benjamin peitzel his assistant there not this fuck he He traveled to Dwight, Illinois, which is a small village about 25 miles from Chicago.
I found this interesting because immediately, for some reason, I thought of him like I made the little quip about him being like assistant to the regional manager.
Yeah. And then he traveled to Dwight, Illinois.
That is funny. But he went there because he was getting treatment for alcoholism.
Ben was? Benjamin. Yeah.
He was doing that at the Keeley Institute.
and while he was there receiving treatment he met a young woman named emeline sagrand and at that time she was working as a stenographer for the institute what's a stenographer uh like typer right okay um takes a transcripts yep and paitzel was just taken by her beauty like he saw her just like oh my god so when he returned home from to chicago after the treatment he told holmes all about this magnificent beautiful young woman girl shut your mouth Both.
He did this on purpose.
He knew that Holmes would be seriously interested in this.
He was doing his job as an assistant.
I found you a pretty young thing.
But he's – oh, here I am thinking that, like, he's in love with this Chica.
He said she's just beautiful.
She's just beautiful.
You should kill her.
Hey, she's this beautiful young woman.
You would probably like her.
Oh my god. So he knew that he would be very interested in this, and he was right.
He loved the idea of a beautiful woman almost as much as he loved the idea of killing a beautiful woman.
women so Holmes wrote to Emmaline and based only on Pite Cell's description he wrote to her like wow heard Pite Cell's description he was like gotta write to this girl very King Henry the eighth very much and he offered her a job at twice the salary she was making now as a stenographer at the Keeley Institute so of course she was like uh yeah like twice the salary are you kidding me would sign up for that so she arrives in Chicago she finds a room at a boarding house and she begins work as Holmes's assistant with the ABC Copying Company, which is one of his sham businesses that was operating on the first
floor. He had a shit ton of those.
The always -be -closing company?
Yeah, right, and he had, like, a glass -bending business down there that was a sham too.
But the landlady of the boarding house she was staying at called Segrand a very pretty girl and was a favorite among the boarders, though she seldom went out with any of the young men.
So she's known very much so as a beautiful woman.
But apparently, she immediately liked Holmes.
He was all over her, praising her constantly, spoiling her with attention and gifts.
And the landlady later said she was greatly infatuated with Holmes and never ceased talking about him.
I did not like him.
He could not look one in the face.
See? To me, this signals a little bit of a difference to the he didn't look you in the eyes thing.
He wouldn't even look you in the face.
Yeah. Like, this guy, there is a little, there's something there.
There is. Like that's different than the strabismus kind of situation where you can't like focus on your eyes.
Exactly. He wasn't even looking you in the face.
It's also like all these women are taken with him.
The women that are taken with him work beneath him.
Exactly. So it's that whole like, oh, like man in power kind of thing.
But the women who are like, I don't know, I always thought he was going to murder someone.
Yeah, they're the ones that are like doing their own thing and have his number.
I don't need your shit.
Right. And it wasn't long until he shammed his way into a romantic relationship with poor Emeline.
now other employees noticed like at the castle and the different businesses they noticed and everyone around them knew something was going on one of holmes's castle tenants dr maurice lawrence told the interocean we felt that she was be she was to be more pitied than blamed he was apparently very kind to her always buying flowers and presents for her and taking her to the theater and places of entertainment they always they nearly always ate their meals together in his office having them sent up from the restaurant on the first floor so they're living this like beautiful life of eating like lunches
together and buying her things taking her out very much like just showering her i'd like to remind you he is married to clara he is also married to murder he has a child lucy he was carrying on a fair with a woman named julia who had a child named pearl who was also pregnant with his child he murdered julia and that child and pearl and And is still married to Myrna and Clara.
And Clara has a son with him.
George. Robert. Robert.
Why did I say George?
Robert. Robert. You were like, actually, it's Robert.
It is Robert, but good try.
Yeah, absolutely. No, which is just like, what the fuck?
So, at this point, he would have had three children?
At this point, he would have had three children.
Okay. Okay. Or no, he would have had two children because Pearl was not his.
But she was pregnant, Julia.
Yeah. But he just says Robert.
And Lucy. Oh, and Lucy.
Yeah. Yes, you're right.
You're correct. Yeah.
So he's Robert Lucy, and he would have had Julia's child.
So yeah, he would have had three children.
A stepchild, technically.
Yep, absolutely. What a fucking asshole.
Actual piece of shit.
And Murda's just across town.
Yeah, like a few miles away.
Yeah, and he's carrying on this, like, very public affair.
And she has no idea?
According to everything, she doesn't know.
Okay. And if she did, she was like, fuck you.
Now, in the winter of 1892, Emmeline told several people She would be returning to Lafayette, Indiana to visit her parents for a few weeks before Christmas.
Now, according to her cousin, Dr. B .J.
Segrand, who'd visited with her very shortly before she was scheduled to leave. He said Ms. Segrand was changing her feelings towards Holmes.
Sounds like something happened that turned her off.
Don't know what. Maybe he leaned in and said, don't be afraid of me.
Don't be afraid of me.
because then several days passed and no one in inglewood had seen or heard from emmeline sagrant no when the wife of dr maurice lawrence the tenant in the castle who had that other quote asked like about her two homes he simply said quote oh she's gone away to get married oh what this obviously was a little weird because uh she'd never dated anyone but him it was pretty It was pretty clear that they were in a relationship and Emmeline never mentioned leaving early and no one ever heard of Emmeline being engaged to someone else.
Also, she said that she was very put off about how he spoke about it.
He was very anxious appearing.
He couldn't look at her when he said it.
He was very monotone.
He didn't want to talk too much about it.
And now this is the second woman who's just up and left him suspiciously.
Yeah. And to her it felt like he was hiding something and scared it was going to come out if he said too much. yeah like he was really hiding something here and so the next day she notices that she sees holmes and two of his assistants carrying a heavy trunk out of the castle and loading it into a wagon one day after that holmes left chicago for the house in wilmot where murda and lucy lived murda's parents because remember he's married with a child two times over i just want to keep reminding you that he went to his wife's house when he returned a few days later Later, he made a point of showing
Mrs. Lawrence, in particular, who had asked about Emmeline.
He showed her an envelope that he'd got containing cards announcing Emmeline's supposed wedding to Robert Phelps on December 7th, 1892.
As if she would send him a wedding invitation or announcement.
Well, a few weeks later, Emmeline's trunk arrived at her parents' house in Indiana.
anna it had all her clothes all her belongings that she had taken with her when she left for that job and according to um eric larson's book her parents hoped that she'd sent the trunk trunk because she must now be marrying a wealthy man and she doesn't need all this old stuff so she's sending it back to us but her cousin bj pointed out that emeline was in the habit of writing her parents two or three times a week right if that was the case she definitely would have written and she had not written.
So you think the big trunk was all her things that they moved out?
Oh, no, I think she was in that big trunk.
And they disposed of her along the way.
I think she, so whatever the case, the trunk arrived, that was the last time that her family got anything from her.
Now, according to Holmes's confession later, Emmeline, quote, had become almost indispensable in my office work and the idea of losing her to an unknown fiancé and Dwight was unacceptable to him.
Oh, so he stuck with that?
So he said, I endeavored upon several occasions to take the life of the young man.
And failing in this, I finally resolved that I would kill her instead.
Um, I don't think so.
So he claimed he lured Emmeline into the large vault in his office and closed the door, causing her, quote, to suffer the tortures of a slow and lingering death.
Jesus Christ. What is worse about this is it's very likely true.
Yeah, I believe it.
because he tested it out with uh ned the name phelps which is supposedly her fiance's name was a known alias of benjamin peitzel which he was using around the time he would have met emeline at the keely institute oh shit so phelps never existed and then people would have been like oh yeah like she did talk to a guy named phelps now too on january 2nd after she disappeared the fall in uh 93 holmes asked charles chapelle for help now do you remember charles chapelle is the articulator uh -huh and he said holmes sent him a trunk containing a young woman's body to be stripped of flesh and articulated
now a few weeks later the la salle medical college of chicago received a delivery of a nicely articulated skeleton oh no when police searched the castle after he was arrested inside that large vault that they that he said he put her in they found a woman's footprint in the enamel on the wall and it was made with so much force that it was unable to be wiped off oh my god she was trying to escape and like kick her way out of there that is 100 was true so brutal and he was selling their articulated skeletons to medical colleges colleges those medical colleges must have been haunted as fuck what the fuck
and that is where we are going to end for part two i didn't see that coming you arsehole because we're gonna get some more trust that we have a lot more coming and it's a lot so we're gonna and i want to look into the the jack the ripper thing a little more for part three i want to like to see if i can get into that little more yeah so uh hang tight okay but he's he's just gotten started and he's already this bad so awesome yep so that is part two of hh homes we have the murder castle being built we have it being in full operation so far we haven't seen the um the little macabre element all the macabre
elements being used we've seen that vault being used quite a bit yeah we have we have seen that a lot.
Yeah. I'm scared. There's a lot that's about to happen and I'd like you guys to hang tight.
And I'm scared about the bricks of it all.
Just hold on to your butts, you know?
Okie dokie, Smokey.
Well, we love ya and we hope you keep listening.
And we hope you keep it weird!
You already know the drill.
You don't. Don't do this.
Don't ever keep it that weird. Don't move to Chicago or anywhere for that matter and build a murder castle.
It'll No, don't do it.
Build a haunted castle.
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