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I have been listening to the Martha's Vineyard Beach and Book Club, which actually Elena recommended to me.
She did not listen to it, but she said, girl, this title sounds so you.
And let me tell you, it did. I've been listening to it while I walk, and I am absolutely loving it.
I love all the different narrators. I love There's more to imagine when you listen.
Sign up for a free 30-day Audible trial and your first audiobook is free.
Visit audible.com slash morbid. On November 13th, 2022, four University of Idaho students were murdered.
Today, finally, the true story. Based on over 300 interviews, in their own words, family members talk about their heartbreak and grief.
Students and townspeople describe that terrifying night.
Police detail the dramatic investigation and arrest of Brian Koberger.
You've never read a true crime like James Patterson and Vicki Ward's The Idaho Four.
The true story, it's finally here. Hey weirdos, I'm Ash.
And I'm Elena. And I'm Paul. And this is another special installment of Morbid... with the lovely Paul Feig.
This is huge for me. Paul, thank you so much for coming on the show.
We're fangirling over here. Yeah, younger Elena's dying inside.
I am fanning out here because I love your show so much.
Your show has gotten myself and my team through so many hard times in the last couple of years.
I love your show. A lot of times. Well, yeah, we do test screenings for these movies.
And once we had to drive all the way to Phoenix and all we did is listen to Morbid the whole way there and the whole way back.
That is so wild to me to hear. Seriously, thank you.
It's like we're returning a favor because you got us through some hard times, too.
It's true. You continue to. Oh, good. Oh, good.
Because I'm sure I need to know, do you get the, oh my God, you're Mr. Poole thing a lot?
Or is that like a rare, a rare one? Doesn't happen much, but weirdly, you know where it happens more than anything is in London for some reason.
Yeah. Like I'll be on the tube and it's like, hey, Mr. Poole.
You're like, sure, yeah, I am. Kind of cool.
Yeah, I'll take it. I love that. That's awesome.
Because as soon as, it's so funny because as soon as we knew we were going to be doing this collab with you, I immediately was like, Mr. Poole.
Mr. Poole. And my husband was like, he directed Bridesmaids.
He was like, what? He created Freaks and Geeks.
He created Freaks and Geeks. Like, why is that, that deep cut is what you're like freaking out about?
I'll take it. I will take any recognition whatsoever.
I used to before that, I always got recognized.
Everybody knew me from there's a movie called Naked Gun 33 and a third, which was the third installment of these these comedy movies.
And I'm in the audience at like an Oscars ceremony reacting because a friend of mine, they shot it later and they needed some funny reactions.
And so everybody knew me from that. Nobody knew anything else.
I hear the guy for 33 and a third. Yeah, sure.
Sure. I'll take it. That's awesome. I love it.
I was, I still am a huge Sabrina the Teenage Witch gal.
The original. And I had like a huge crush on Mr. Pool when I was little.
What? Oh my gosh. So this is like a big deal for me.
Full circle. We found the one person who liked Mr. Pool.
I could not understand. I could not understand the Mr. Pool was so annoying thing when they would do that constantly.
I was like, he's not. Justice for Mr. Pool.
Yeah. Well, because that was like early, early days of the Internet that show was on.
And so they would do this photo gallery and they would post these photos and you could see how many people downloaded the photos.
Every one of the cast members, I mean, hundreds of thousands of people.
Mr. Poole was like 7,000. And they were all the way up.
Yeah, I was going to say. It was all me.
Excellent. I love it. Well, one of the things that we wanted to talk about today, because you were kind enough to send me a copy and I'm obsessed with it, is your book Cocktail Time.
And it's, it's an amazing book. Like it's so good.
Cause it's a cocktail recipe book, but it's not at the same, like it is, but it has a lot more in it, which I loved.
Cause you have stories, you have like how to get in the mood for certain cocktails.
Like I love the entire thing. So can you just tell us, cause I know you love that like aesthetic and that whole culture.
So can you just kind of tell us where that comes from?
Yeah, I mean, I just I've always been obsessed with like grown up life.
You know, that's like, you know, the subtitle of the book is, you know, the ultimate guide to grown up fun.
I think, you know, it's like I just turned 60 this year or so.
But, you know, my whole kind of adult life, I've watched guys my age try to be like teenagers.
You know, and I'm like, well, that's not I had a terrible time when I was a teenager.
Last thing I want to do is keep those going.
You know, so I just love kind of that grown up aesthetic.
And to me, cocktails sort of represents that, you know, and I say in the book, like you don't have to drink cocktails to, you know, to get something out of this book.
It's really about how to throw a party, you know, just kind of how to kind of, I don't know, make your life a little more grown up fun.
And then there's a lot of really embarrassing stories in there, too.
There are. They're fun. There's some great ones like that movie Ski Patrol.
Was it that you did in the 90s? One of my favorite things was that originally your character was just supposed to have like a perpetual boner throughout the whole movie.
Uncontrollable erections. That was the whole character description, which I had to do all these auditions.
I was dying. ducking behind couches and being like oh my gosh and covering myself up and it's like fortunately they decided to get rid of that they took a left turn explored the character a little more you know i was dying a little deeper but i have to ask i know you love martinis but do you have a second do you have like a favorite drink in the book that is not a martini Yeah, I'm very partial to Negronis.
I think those are really good. Spagliato.
Yeah, those are big on TikTok, right? Nicely done.
With Prosecco in it. Yes, exactly. Prosecco said a gin.
Although I'm a gin guy, so I'll always go for that.
Oh, you do like gin, yeah. Oh, yeah. I have my own brand of gin, actually.
Oh. Yeah, called Artingstall's Brilliant London Dry Gin.
Oh, yes. Very cool. Didn't it win an award?
Yeah, we won a ton of awards, actually. Yeah, that's pretty badass.
We're slowly getting out into the world now, so you can find us.
Go to artingstallsgin.com to find us. I'm always selling.
I'm so sorry. No, it's always be closing.
Don't worry. We'll link it in the show notes.
For sure. But I have to ask, too, if you had to be a drink, what drink would you be?
Oh, wow. What do you think you would be?
I mean, I would probably be martini, but maybe I'd take a little switch on it and be like a Churchill martini or something, which is a little bit different.
It's got a few extra ingredients in it. I like that.
A little pizzazz. Alina, what would you be?
Have you thought about this? That's a good question.
I feel like I would be a Brandy Alexander.
Really? Yeah. Nice. Yeah. I think it's warm.
Yeah. Dessert-y. It is dessert-y. Yeah. It's intense.
It is intense. Yeah. I would be an espresso martini because it's like really, really like in your face and a little chaotic, but it goes down smooth.
Yes. I just did a party last night and a friend of mine requested a peppermint espresso martini, which I've never done.
But I took my martini recipe and I took a half ounce of peppermint schnapps.
There you go. And it was a home run. Oh, that sounds delicious.
That does. Holiday. I'm going to put that in my back pocket.
Yeah, I really like that. And just like to close out, to close out talking about alcohol.
Yeah. Is there any kind of alcohol? Because I feel like everyone has this that you absolutely loathe, like that you had a bad experience with or you just don't like at all.
Yeah, I mean, I hate to say this because it's such a popular, probably the most popular spirit we have right now, but tequila.
Nope. Hate it. I hate tequila. Terrible hangovers from tequila.
Oh, my God. The way it goes down, I feel like my throat and my chest is just lighting on fire.
I'm like, this is not good. It's not great.
I just don't like the taste. I don't know what it is. and then i've had some like kind of sipping tequilas and those are kind of almost like a scotch so you can kind of get around those but the problem is tequila is always done in conjunction with something else and like you know if tequila with beer that's the worst hangover i've ever had in my life it was tequila and beer but then this is make you throw up grappa was thrown into the mix at one point during the evening where were you i don't know what were I was in San Francisco for this kind of robot convention a number of years ago and just went nuts.
Iconic behavior. San Francisco's never welcomed me back.
You just closed it out there. You were like, all right, I did that.
That happened. So maybe because we were just talking about almost dying, this is a good little segue into some questions that we have that we kind of try to ask a lot of our guests because I think it gives a lot of insight into people.
Yeah. So we're going to be talking about ghosts today.
Oh, great. And I have to know, what kind of ghost would you be?
Would you be a sheep ghost? Would you be a Victorian child?
A poltergeist? Banshee, a poltergeist? Hmm.
Oh, I like that. I mean, I'm too much of a people pleaser to be a poltergeist.
Yeah. I wouldn't want to pull that many pranks on people.
Yeah, they're usually not nice. I'd try to be the friendly guy.
I'd be Casper. Oh, there you go. Oh, that's perfect.
Yeah. That makes sense. So I feel like you'd kind of be like a chic ghost.
Yeah. You know, because that's always friendly.
Totally. Oh, hello. Yeah. Yeah. I try to help people out.
Like I go like find a secret, you know, listen in on somebody else and come back.
Oh, those people are conspiring again. Get away from that person.
I like that. Yeah. And Casper makes a good breakfast.
And for some reason, I get the impression that you would also make a great breakfast.
You know, I do make a good breakfast. I just like that.
It came across. A nice scrambled egg burrito with some hot sauce and all that.
Yeah, you got to have hot sauce. Totally.
You got it. I love it. Well, and then so we're talking about a sheet ghost.
We we always get really funny answers to this.
What would you wear if you were a sheet ghost?
Would you be a straight up bed sheet ghost, a quilt ghost, lace curtains, a tablecloth?
Hmm. I guess I guess I can't have an outfit if I'm if a sheet ghost.
Right. I have to be. You can have like a hat if you do whatever you want.
Really? You're going to have a top hat. I'll take it.
Absolutely. Oh, there you go. Yeah. But a white top hat.
So there you go. Yeah. Suspect. That's classy.
At least don my hat and then tip it to. I like that.
A monochromatic ghost. I love it. I like that.
I think that's great. I feel like that always gives good insight into who people are.
It does. What kind of ghosts they're going to be.
Yeah. I feel like it always is. I love it.
I like that. I've never been asked that question before, so I'm very.
I love that. I like it. That was the plan.
It's a good one. Well, moving away from that, because we will come back to ghosts.
Trust me. We're going to talk about Michigan ghosts.
Oh, good. So. My home state. Exactly. And actually, you know, I'm segueing myself and I'm not even meaning to.
So this is working out really well. Speaking of Michigan, let's talk about Freaks and Geeks.
So my, actually, my husband had no idea, but he loves Freaks and Geeks.
He had no idea that you created it. So he's now like downstairs having like...
Like an existential mouth. He was like, that's who you're talking to?
Like freaking out. I love it. He loves it.
I will. But I know that I personally have not met like a reboot that I liked or wanted to hang out with.
I don't know if you feel the same. I feel the same way.
That's why there's never been more Freaks and Geeks.
Exactly. So I know a lot of people probably ask you, like, would there be one?
Because everybody wants one. And I feel like we all want it, but then we get it and we're like, why did I ask for that?
Mm-hmm. that's the problem in life though.
We all think we want, like everybody wants, you know, that they want another bridesmaids.
I'm like, Hey, you know, we got away with those.
Yeah. And if it's great losses, sometimes good things come to an end.
Yeah. And it's like, sometimes it's like, you know, like it's like parks and rec.
It was great. And it was always great. And that's it.
Like, you know, like just let it be always great.
But if there was going to be a reboot, I realized that it was set in 1980 and it came out in like 99, 2000.
So if we're sticking with the same kind of time jump, it would end up being them in the year 2000. which is kind of different than reboots now.
Cause like, I don't want to see anybody now.
Like now sucks a little bit. Like nobody wants to see that.
But like 2000s with like Razer phones and like Blockbuster and illegally downloading music.
I'm like, that's not that bad. That could work.
That could be fun. The whole plot could be them dealing with the Y2K.
Yeah, exactly. So if you were to do it, would you want to set it in that time or would you bring it to now?
Or is it just a bad idea all around? We'll leave it aside whether it's a good idea or not.
But I wouldn't probably do it in 2000. What I like about doing period stuff You have a very limited amount of culture you can pull from.
So, you know, all the best songs, you know, like the stars that sort of, you know, kept going and the TV shows that stood the test of time or the ones you can make fun of that people thought were going to be good and now aren't.
That's more fun to me because when you do something that's modern day, it's always this thing.
Oh, there's this band, this hot new band that they want a song in or whatever.
And it's just like, but then by the time you come out, that song's, you know, failed.
Yeah. Nobody liked it. Right, right. Or everybody's used it a million times.
God, we had that happen on something. I was doing something and we worked really hard to get this music.
Right before we came out, it showed up on a string cheese commercial.
Oh, come on. You stole that from the string cheese commercial.
I was like, God damn it. Yeah, definitely.
Yeah, I feel like it dates itself when it's like to now.
Yeah, I agree. I like like the period stuff.
Yeah, I think 20 years in the past is a good, good chance for things to have blossomed and taken hold.
Yeah. And I feel like that's like really the only time that those kind of reboots would work is like the nostalgia stuff.
Because again, now is just like, I don't want to see now.
We're all living now. Everything's doing well.
It seems to not take place now. Yeah, that's true.
I mean, I guess I don't know when Wednesday takes place, but it feels like it's another time.
It does. You're right. I feel like that's like timeless.
Like it doesn't even have, which I also love when things you just don't know.
Yeah. You can't like pinpoint when they are.
Yeah. Well, I mean, honestly, I mean, especially with comedy, the mistake that gets made a lot of times is when you first start out in comedy, you become very referential to culture, to pop culture.
But what happens then is you're only funny as long as your audience knows what you're talking about.
Yeah. You know, and again, I'm 60 years old.
I was a stand up comedian back in my 20s.
And I really like I was really unique at the time because I made fun of the 70s.
And at that time, everybody's making fun of the 60s.
So everybody's like, oh, my gosh, you're so out.
So forward thinking all that. But now, you know, if I do it now, nobody knows what the hell I'm talking about.
Or even making pop culture references. You know, that's why they say comedy doesn't really travel internationally.
Because if you're making too many references about your culture, then nobody knows what you're talking about somewhere else.
Yeah, that's true. That makes sense. But either way, I agree with you.
I think if you did it, it would have to be 20 years in the past.
But I'm of the same mind you are, that it's like, it was great.
It was perfect. And it will always be great.
Yeah. away stuff i always said like the the best the only great ending for a show i've ever seen was that was completely satisfying was the last episode of six feet under yeah because they showed how each character died and he's like now it's done do this again yeah like that's it that is such a good show i love that show that was great Why choose a Sleep Number smart bed?
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The town of Agde in France is famous for sun, sand, sea and sex.
But lately, life on the coast has taken a strange turn.
The town's mayor, a respected pillar of the community, has been arrested for corruption.
His wife claims he's been bewitched by a beautiful clairvoyant.
Then there's the mysterious phone calls that local people have been getting.
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Oh, thank you. So good. Thank you. I love it.
I'm a huge, like, I love fantasy stuff. Like, immediately I get sucked into it.
And it's, this one gives you, like, it's on Netflix.
Go watch it. Like, watch it immediately.
It has awesome people. Charlize Theron is in it.
Yuck. Exactly. And Kerry Washington. And Kerry Washington.
Michelle Yeoh. I know. It's crazy. It has amazing people in it.
And this gives you that warm, fuzzy fantasy feeling where you feel like you can go in your closet to Narnia.
I feel like it's going to happen. It's so good.
Oh, thanks so much. You're welcome. And are you usually drawn to, because I know people usually get drawn to a certain character.
Are you drawn to villains or are you drawn to heroes usually in these kind of things?
It's a great question. I mean, I'm I love villains are great.
But my thing with villains is you got to make sure in general and this this movie is actually kind of different for me than most because my villains just villains.
Yeah, because that he's he is evil incarnate.
But normally I'm always trying to figure out, like, how do you make the villain not relatable, but understandable?
Because, you know, it's the fascinating thing.
I love your show is these people generally, unless they're just horrendous.
And, you know, obviously we've had a few of those.
Everybody thinks they have a reason why they're doing something that is good to them.
It's obviously a terrible reason. But so I'm always trying to figure out, like, how do you make that villain three dimensional in that way?
And also, I always like to try to kind of have a little redemption for somebody at the end, you know, even if it's they get to come up and it's like at the end of Spy, you know, it's just the fact that Melissa McCarthy and Rose Byrne just have this little detente between them.
They respect each other. Yeah. And I kind of like that.
So but it's you know, it's it's I'm more drawn to heroes.
The hardest thing in the world in the movie is the bad guy plot.
I'm working with it with a writer right now who is one of the top writers in Hollywood.
And she's always like the bad guy plot. That's the fucking hardest part, because, you know, it's always he's going to end the world or whatever.
Like we've seen the same bad guy plot over and over again.
So how do you make it relatable and feel right?
So, but you can't have a movie without a great villain.
It's true. And I'm the same way that like, if it's just a straight villain with no redeemable quality and nothing else, it's so, it's like boring.
Cause you're like, well, I don't want them to win.
So it's like, like, bye. Yeah. Like loose.
Yeah. Yeah. I don't care. Yeah. They just want to create chaos.
They have to have a reason why they want to create chaos.
Exactly. So you can at least have some kind of like back and forth with it.
Yeah. Yeah. But so you would say you're an ever if you had to pick, right?
Yeah, I think I would. I think I would. Yeah.
I believe that. We took the quiz. I'm a never, which checks.
And I am a never, which also checks. Yeah, you're a never.
I'm a never. Although I was pretty on the line.
Yeah, she was. Oh, good. Nevers are cooler, definitely.
They got a more fun attitude. And that's what made us laugh about this movie is like the Evers are actually really assholes.
See, that's why I'm towing the line. But they look great.
It's all mixed up. They look great, though.
They do. There's that. But honestly, everyone go watch School of Good and Evil.
It's so good. I know everybody has seen Bridesmaids.
Everybody has seen everything. But seriously, School of Good and Evil is such a good addition to your repertoire.
Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. And like you say, it's streaming on Netflix right now.
Waiting for you. Two and a half, two hours and 15 minutes of fun.
And then go watch it. Ten minutes of credits.
Yeah. That's like the perfect timing of a movie.
And hopefully, do you know if there will be more of those or is it just kind of... That's a hope.
We're writing it right now. Oh, awesome.
We're writing a sequel right now, but still waiting to hear if they want to do it.
But they've ordered it. That's amazing. They ordered the script.
That's amazing. Very nice. So everybody keep watching it.
Well, that's honestly, if you could help us out and we'll watch it again, then that would be great.
Not you personally. Yeah. If you've seen it, throw it on again.
Just let it play. We did that opening weekend.
We just had it on in our office. When you leave work or when you leave for work, just put it on.
Let it keep looping around. Yeah. The dog or the cat can enjoy it.
Yeah. We leave the TV on for the cats. I'll put it on for them.
Yeah. Everybody will do it. I think that's great.
But yeah, I think definitely go get the book cocktail time.
We'll link all of these things in the show notes, too, so everybody can get to it easily.
But with that, thank you for chatting with us about all that stuff.
But now we want to scare the crap out of you.
Oh, please do. I'm ready. I've only recently got into like scary movies and horror because I was a kid.
I was so afraid of it. I always assumed something scary was going to be so scary that I would just die.
Me too. I get haunted house. Yeah, totally.
Scary movies. But only like in my 50s that I finally go, I got to watch these.
And I'm good friends with Jordan Cruciola, who does this Disaster Girls podcast.
And I love them. She and Alana, Amanda, who do it.
And she's always going, you got to watch these.
And so I started. And what is great is they're never as scary as I think they're going to be.
It's always better when you're like, oh, okay.
Yeah, yeah. Can I say, I watched what I think is, for me, the scariest movie I've ever seen just the other day.
Have you heard of a movie called Fall? No, I don't think so.
I think I've heard of that. It came out this year.
Nobody saw it. It got no marketing or anything.
I'm going to Google it. It's about two young women who are kind of like free climbers who decide they're going to climb this 2,000 foot TV tower in the middle of nowhere and get stranded at the top.
I have a major fear of heights. Yeah, same.
And it's traumatized i mean you will just i thought i was gonna have a heart attack yeah no that looks terrifying that's like that's as similar to like the descent if you've ever seen that yeah yeah the descent like i went into cardiac arrest like that was i could barely i can barely make it through that movie it's so claustrophobic and it's so stressful i mean i find like stressful is worse than scary because it's scary with you're gonna have a heart attack a little Yeah, exactly.
If you haven't seen The Ritual, I think it's on Netflix.
It's a really good one. Okay. That's one of those that they keep the monster from you for the whole movie.
You don't really see it. You just kind of like get the tension.
And then when it's revealed, it's actually a really good reveal.
It's like one of the few. The ritual. Yeah.
It's a really good one. Write that down.
Just in case you're looking for recommendations.
There you go. But now we're going to scare the crap out of you with some ghosts.
And feel free to interrupt to say whatever you'd like while we're telling you these stories.
Don't feel like you have to sit there silently or anything. being scared covering your eyes because we interrupt each other all the time while we're telling stories obviously so even when it's not a good time just yeah i have something to say so we're going to be talking about dice road which is in merrill oh i don't know if you've heard about this but yeah so dice road is an unpaved stretch of really country road it's between saginaw and midland in michigan oh Yep, I know Saginaw.
And there is a home in Merrill that along with the road itself is documented to be one of the most haunted in the country.
Really? Which I had no idea. I'm already terrified.
You said dirt road and I got scared. Dirt road.
Dirt country road. I wonder how that happens.
Were there a lot of accidents along that road or murders along that road?
I don't know. That's the thing. Because when I looked it up, there's a lot of like legends associated with it.
Like there's a lot of like a witch lived here or some lady died in a car accident and is now roaming.
But you don't find any actual like newspaper reports to corroborate that.
Small town legends are fantastic. The Bell, yeah.
Because, you know, too, they have to come from something like some little nugget of truth.
Yeah. Where there's smoke, there's fire.
Yeah. This one, this haunted house is very well documented, like old newspapers.
There's police reports associated with it.
There's like documentaries about it. Like it's a and I had no idea it existed until I started looking into this.
I was like, what? All right. Some like famous reclusive old lady or man that lived there.
That's the wild thing. There's like a family. who lived there.
But there is, like, an old lady across the street who they think was a witch that may have been.
Which is getting such a bad rap. They really do.
The Chex's chainsaw massacre family in one.
Yeah. And then a witch across the street.
And it was her fault. I might want to live in that neighborhood.
It sounds interesting, to be honest. Well, the guy who owned this home in Queens, this mainly happened in the 70s, like, all the main activity, which I feel like everything, like, crazy happened in the 70s.
Of course. Like, serial killers, ghosts, all that stuff.
Mm-hmm. So this guy's name was Harold Pomeranning, and he owned the home in question in 1974.
He was terrorized for a while while he lived there.
There was loud banging on the outsides of the home and insides of the home.
There was unexplained and disembodied voices.
Furniture and other objects would just move about freely.
Walls would crack open out of nowhere. What?
Yeah, and the floors apparently jumped. As if, like, explosions were occurring under them.
Like, not in the cute casita way from Encanto?
No. Yeah, not like Encanto. A little different.
Like a foot massage. Yeah. Like, nobody was, like, singing and dancing in here.
It was, like, small explosions happening under the house.
Oh, my. Oh, my. And there were fires that would just light inside the house.
What? Like, spontaneous combustion. Yeah.
Wow. Like, all goes, huh, huh. Spontaneous combustion.
Did anybody spontaneously combust, though?
No person did. That is the most fascinating thing to me.
I still haven't done a deep dive into spontaneous human combustion, but I'm going to.
That was always in school. That was the favorite book in the library.
Oh, yeah. He likes, you know, a chair with ashes and then two feet.
Just shoes. There's so many photos with just the shoes.
I don't know why those always survive, but...
That's why my dad always said, like, get good shoes.
Buy good shoes. You burn from the ankles up.
That'll be all that's left. But it also had several reports that were filed to the Saginaw Sheriff's Office about this house.
And they're all documented. So it really began one night when this family woke up in the middle of the night to the sound of pounding and then shattering glass.
So they immediately thought someone was breaking in, obviously.
And they went into the kitchen, and the dad found that the kitchen window had been absolutely shattered.
But they called the police. No one's around.
They didn't see anyone outside. And when the police were called, there was no evidence that anyone had been anywhere near it or thrown anything at the glass.
But it had just shattered. Did it shatter in?
It did. It shattered inside. So they thought somebody must have done something from the outside, obviously.
But nothing was thrown into the house. There was no evidence that somebody was standing.
And I believe when it happened, there was either, they said there was either snow on the ground or it was like muddy, something that would have shown like evidence that somebody was under that window.
And there was no evidence of it. Weird. Yeah.
They couldn't find anything. Yeah. They launched it from the woods.
Yeah, there you go. And then it disappeared.
They had like a potato gun and they just shot it through.
An invisible potato gun. Somebody ate the potato.
It's real quick. It was like ghosts. But on Halloween night in 1974, reports were filed with the police about banging her on the home again.
No shattering glass, just banging like someone was hitting the sides of the house.
Officers found no people, no animals, nothing that could cause it.
And there was no evidence again of anyone being around the house.
So at first they're like, you guys sound crazy.
Like maybe that's it. Like, I think you're just calling us to have us come out here.
They're like, it's Halloween. You're being goofy.
Yeah. Big fans of the cops. I run them over all the time.
You're being silly and goofy. But January 5th, 1975, a report was filed after several officers from the Lansing department stayed at the home because between Halloween and then they'd gotten so many reports that they started bringing officers to the home to like stake it out.
Wow. Because they were like, either you're disrupting our jobs and calling us for no reason or something's going on here and we need to know.
So a bunch of these Lansing police officers stayed at the home and they had switched out with deputies from like another shift.
And they reported hearing and there's a police report that they filed, the police officers, saying they heard 13 blasts.
In the house. What? And the end of the officer's report says, quote, at this time, there is nothing further I can add.
13 blasts, that's all. That's it. That's all we heard.
And they couldn't explain it. First of all, this is my new movie, which is a bunch of cops go to stay in a haunted house to see if it's really haunted.
Yeah, that's a good movie. I would watch that.
That's got to be the greatest. That's a great film.
Truly. Netflix, get on this. And at the end of the report, just say, at this time, there's nothing further that I can add.
Just heard some stuff. But they had members of the state FBI unit also come in, and they reported hearing explosions and blasts around and in the house.
But no source. With no evidence to what it could be.
Wow. So that was weird. And then January 21st, the same year, the Saginaw News ran a front page story about the home with the title Haunted House Remains a Mystery at Merrill.
Fun. So this was like only a couple of weeks after that had happened, but it had gotten around that this place was scary.
Yeah. And in the article, deputies are quoted saying they heard some of Harold's like they they heard some someone calling Harold's like the name Harold's, but they just heard it like around and nobody was around.
They could hear it like almost like it was all around them, but couldn't find the source.
And they said it felt like it was kind of like closing in on them, people just saying Harold.
And they were like, what? And they even talk about how deputies parked all their cars around the home because they were like, we need to see every inch of this.
And they heard the banging begin and still they were surrounding the house.
And they could hear the banging, but nothing is happening.
That's wild. Did they call it scientists in there?
They did eventually bring in some researchers, but one deputy said they were, quote, and this is where it gets weird.
The deputy said they were told, quote, to say nothing to anyone about what we heard or saw.
What? By their superiors. One of those government cover-ups.
One of those things. So, like, what is that?
Or they don't want to instill, like, public panic.
I don't know, because the public was panicking.
They were, like, all the neighbors were, like, we wouldn't go near that house.
Like, my parents wouldn't let me play with the kids at their house.
Like, they had to come to ours. Yeah. It got, like, real weird.
This is truly so 70s though. Yeah, it is the most 70s.
Having grown up in the 70s, I feel like we heard these kind of stories a lot.
Oh yeah, I'm sure. Now, police and firefighters investigated the home and the reports over the years, they found no footprints, no indication people were in the home.
The fire department was trying to figure out what the fires starting were happening.
They could find no cause for this. They couldn't even find where it was originating.
They would just find something burned or they would come in and see a fire burning and Some of them even reported that firefighters actually witnessed a fire start.
Wow. In front of them. And then they would just go out?
And it would either burn out or they would have to put it out.
Yeah. That's so freaky. In fact, speaking of fires, one incident happened in the evening of February 23rd, 1975, while the family was getting ready to go to church.
And this makes me think, like, is it a daemon?
I was going to say. Because a roll of toilet paper just caught fire.
Like a roll of toilet paper. And you're not going to church today.
And you're also not wiping your ass. I don't know if that's connected, but you're not doing it.
No fun will be had. It's just a prankster.
Like this will be funny. But Harold's wife, Mabel, and their son, Dwayne, smelled smoke from the bathroom while they were getting ready and found half a roll of toilet paper on fire and the rest burnt.
And also a few tiles in the bathroom had popped off the wall.
Wow. From the heat, you think, or from the demon?
I don't know. They don't know. The demon.
Was it the demon or the heat? The demon or the heat.
Which one? What came first? It could have been either.
That demon heat. There you go. And I guess the curtain that was like near the window near the toilet, that was also burned.
So it had traveled. Wow. Now, there was an official report fired for this and the fire department, as well as police, came to investigate.
And in their report, it says verbatim, this is when they say that they brought like somebody to actually take a peek at this.
They said, it should be noted that two members of the Duke University Physical Research Foundation from Durham have been conducting extensive testing at the residence to determine the source of the strange noises and strange occurrences taking place there.
It is felt by all parties involved that there is something, some supernatural phenomena occurring at this location, and that it could also be the cause of the fires which have occurred.
It is the understanding of the undersigned officer that the burning of the roll of toilet paper is next to humanly impossible when it is rolled up in the normal toilet paper type roll, as it is unable to get sufficient oxygen to produce enough heat to sustain burning."
However, tests will be made in regard to the role of toilet paper by undersigned officer.
And the humanly impossible thing was said by the state fire marshal.
He said this is humanly impossible to happen.
That's terrifying. Why did they still live in this home?
They did get out eventually. That was my question.
That's always the question. Like, obviously, you can't just go buy a house, but I would camp in the woods and I don't even care.
Yeah. Well, do we know, like, how often were these things happening?
Was it happening, like, every day? Or was it, like, a month would go by and it would happen?
I guess it was, like, pretty routinely they would hear the banging and, like, things moving and stuff.
And that, like, floor thing would happen a lot.
But then the fire things were, like... Yeah, that's it.
And the fire thing is like... You know, the fire thing is there, too.
Combustion happened, like, monthly, and I feel like that's enough for me.
That's a sign that you should dip. That's... Yeah.
No, I would be out of there. Get out of the house, as they say.
Exactly. They did, eventually, luckily. Imagine how many rolled ankles from that floor just jumping.
Yeah. I roll my ankles just standing. I can't imagine if my floor moved.
How fluid would the floor be if it was wooden?
Would it like, I wonder if planks would pop up?
Yeah. Or if it would just like feel that like.
Like an earthquake almost. Yeah. Almost like when there's a, like a washer dryer or something on the floor underneath you and you can kind of feel the vibration maybe.
Yeah. But that would go along with like those weird explosions happening.
So it's like. And what is exploding? Is something exploding?
We don't know it like to this day. What happened?
Is there like an underground thing? I know this demon needs to explain themselves.
Maybe it's otherworldly popcorn is being made.
Hell popcorn is happening. It's really intense.
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Well, Captain Fred Clark of the Saginaw County Sheriff's Department said, quote, I would say to a doubter, in case any of you are doubters, not to doubt.
There are a lot of things that happen in this world that are unexplainable.
And I would also say that many of these things were not to know.
I mean, yeah, I agree. I'm like, all right.
Yeah, sure. But I want to know. Like, I want to know what's going on.
Curiosity. It kind of sounds like a cop saying, I'm not going to work on this anymore.
Exactly. Yeah. He was like, you know what?
Don't doubt it. We didn't lie. But I'm not going in there.
And I'm out of here. Yeah, that's that. Don't ask me about it anymore.
A retired sergeant of the Saginaw Sheriff's Department, Charles Frisbee, was quoted as saying, Great name.
Charles Frisbee. He should be in your film.
Officer Frisbee. He's in. Yeah, you got it.
He said, quote, this Dice Road corridor is kind of strange.
We have the cemetery on one end and the Palmer Anning home up the road.
I heard the noise. I saw stuff out there.
I don't know how to explain it, but I'll tell you one thing.
I saw it. Which they're all very cryptic.
They are. They don't tell you much, but they tell you everything.
They belong in a film. They do. Because they're all very like just those one-liners and then walk away into the mist.
They belong in a soap. Their hair came out and was all white.
Yeah. No, another official complaint said that the family heard voices through the walls that, quote, something or someone was talking and threatening to kill Harold and his family and also banging on the walls.
Leave. This is when I think they started packing up.
Bye. Bye. They had to wait a little bit.
So the family had the electric company and Michigan Bell out to investigate because they were like, maybe it's some kind of weird faulty electrical thing.
They found no disturbances to explain the things that they were experiencing.
And then the Pomeranians had priests come in because that's always like your last ditch effort is like, just bring the clergy in.
Let's see what happens. Throw the priests at it.
Yeah, why not? But they said the nights after the house were blessed were some of the worst nights they had.
That's a demon. That's a demon. You got a demon, sir.
Hello, you've been demoned. Yeah, that's absolutely a demon.
I mean, this literally should be the plot of the next Conjuring movie.
Yes. Yeah. They had to have gotten some inspiration from here.
They need Patrick Wilson. Yeah. Like some Amityville.
This is very Amityville. Yeah. The walls cracking and stuff.
That's creepy. Like, did they bleed too?
I know. Like what happened here? But they also had more researchers come in to see if there was any logical explanation.
And they had stayed overnight at the home to witness everything firsthand.
And no one could explain it, but no one could deny that it was happening either.
They all came out and said, I heard it. I saw it.
I felt it. I smelled it. But I don't know what it is.
Wow. And it's an aggressive demon. Yes. Whatever it is, because usually it's like Mr. Ed.
Yeah. Reference where like he won't talk in front of anybody else.
It's like it was apparently maybe it was an old actor.
I know. Right. You never know. Or it was like, all right.
It definitely wasn't a toddler when you're trying to be like, hey, tell everybody those amazing words that you know how to say.
And they're like. You're like, I swear, you're such a genius.
But yeah, this demon was ready to show anybody and everybody.
It almost seemed like it was showing off a little bit.
Yeah, definitely. Especially to like the priests.
Yeah, like I'll show you. Firefighters come in and it's like, look, I can start a fire.
And I can put it out. Police come over and it's like, look, I can mock a home invasion.
We don't need you. It just molds to whoever comes in.
Yeah, it's true. Maybe he was just trying to get a job.
Yeah, maybe. He's like, I can do all of this.
Look how great I am. I can start a fire and put it out.
I am a multifaceted demon. Now, the police department actually put the home under constant surveillance.
But at one point, they didn't let the family know they were doing this because then they were trying to be like, OK, maybe we will catch them kind of messing around like, I don't know.
But there was times when the family would request that they would survey the home, but sometimes they did it without them knowing.
And one time when Sergeant Frisbee there, our guy Charles, he was doing watch outside the home.
And he said as he pulled into the driveway, the big outside light that was over the door just went out.
And he was like, oh, maybe it's like a motion thing or something.
But he heard a weird noise when it happened.
So he went over to it and he realized that it had literally exploded when he had driven into the driveway.
Like the light had just exploded. Wow. And he was like, so it didn't just go out.
Well, it didn't. Literally combusted. Just exploded.
As I drove in the drive, he's like, I watched it with my two eyes.
Wow. I saw it. Went out forever. Went out forever.
Neighbors, like I said, who grew up near the Pomeranian said they wouldn't even go in the yard.
They would not go near this place. And there was a story shared in the documentary that you guys have to watch.
I'll link it in the show notes. Oh, there's a documentary.
There is. It's a really interesting one too.
Oh, fun. And a family friend whose dad was a homicide detective said that Harold, the dad of this family, had told his father, who was the homicide detective, that a woman who lived across the street from their home asked about buying the house at one point.
And they told her no. And the Pomeranings were not selling their home.
So they were like, oh, no, we're like not selling because we're going to live with this demon for a little while.
She was like, you will be soon. We want to see if we can make this work.
We haven't bonded yet. We're going to see if we can get there.
If not, we'll talk. But she was aggravated.
She, like, really wanted to buy this house.
And she repeatedly kept coming back and getting more and more aggressive about asking to buy the property.
And he was like, we're not selling, lady.
Like, go away. And she was pissed when they refused.
So Harold believed that she may have cursed the home.
Because he was like, she's a witch. And she cursed the home.
And one of the other neighbors in the dock said this woman actually had told her personally that she was a practicing witch.
And she referred to it as, quote, an ordained witch.
We're not ordained. Which I was like, what the hell does that mean?
It's very official. I was like, do you have a card?
Who ordains you? Do you have a license to practice?
Where do I get, where do I find that website online?
I was like an ordained witch. Ordainedwitch.com.
Seems very like counterintuitive. I don't know.
She's like that lady out of Drag Me to Hell.
Yes, that's exactly it. And I'm like, did she just walk up to you?
Like, because this woman is like an adult now.
And I was like, so were you a child? And she just came up to you and was like, hey, girl, I'm a witch.
I'm an ordained witch. Just letting you know.
And this. I don't know. But people in the area saw her, which I was like, okay, well, this could be me.
Because they were like, I was like, I don't know about this.
People were like, yeah, she loved being in the cemetery.
She would walk through it at night. And I was like, well, it's peaceful.
Yeah. Get off her back. Maybe she was visiting someone.
Leave her alone. And she apparently had three big black X's above her garage door.
That's pretty iconic. Which is pretty iconic.
Yeah, I was going to say. all right, you know, like, whatever.
Live and let live, all right? I don't know.
But apparently, so that was their whole explanation for it.
They were like, this is what happened. This lady cursed them.
The exes were just teenagers vandalizing her home.
If I can intervene for a second. If you put a curse on a place...
Are you like unleashing demons on them? Or is the curse just like the floor will jump around?
That's what I would think. I don't think that a curse would be like, I'm going to summon a demon from the underworld to come live with you.
Well, I would think the curse is just what you deserve.
Like the rule of three by three. That's true.
So what she got from them, she gave back by three.
Which it's like, if that's the case, just saying I'm not going to sell you my house, that's like pretty... Yeah.
It sounds like there's more to that story.
It's pretty disproportionate. It is. But we don't know how rude Harold was and what their neighborly... Maybe there had to have been a reason she really wanted that house.
Yeah. And the way I see it is this might be bullshit.
Yeah. Also that. And that either she came over and was like, can I buy the house?
And they were like, we're not selling. And she was like, that sucks.
And then just walked away. And they were like, she's a witch.
She's a witch. Yeah, she's like a witch.
And that is like Salem 1692. And they're just like, well, that's that.
But I think it was just like someone trying to come up with a reason.
I don't think it was actual. I don't think she actually cursed it or made any kind of like.
Well, Harold's getting kind of a clean slate on this.
He is. I know. Was he a jackass or was he, you know?
I guess Harold was not a bad guy. Like, that's the other reason I don't think he was, like, super mean to this lady.
Because it doesn't sound like he was a mean guy.
I don't know. He cared about his family, at least.
He was trying to protect them. Maybe something happened in that house before they bought it.
Yeah. And it was, like, all the lingering energy.
Or on that land. Yeah, that land. Did he really care about his family, though?
I don't know. You're like, let's, let's, let's go back for a second.
How much? Yeah. Maybe not. Cause once it's, once the thing starts like threatening your family, I think it's time to go live in the woods for a little while.
Like, yeah, I would do. Yeah. Or even a family member like, Hey mom, can we stay with you?
Our house is threatening to kill us. She's like, no, sorry.
I don't remember. Don't bring that here.
But I will say they didn't last long in the house.
This happened in a very short period of time.
So like, I guess they did their best because they lasted a little over a year.
And then they were out of the house. So this wasn't like years and years of him being like, well, you know.
All right, Harold. It was probably like...
They're trying to come up with reasons for this.
But then a fire in the home actually caused them to have to move out.
It was such a it was a large fire. Oh, that's scary.
And kind of like chase them out. And what's really sad is that Harold actually passed away shortly after leaving the home of a heart attack.
Oh, no. And family and like neighbors think that it could have been like a breakdown from the events that they experienced in the house.
Yeah, that's a lot of stress. Yeah. Which now the owners, I won't say their names just because like, I don't know.
I think they still live there. Yeah. They've been there for more than like 40 years.
So have they experienced? And I think they've, if they have experienced things and they're not, I don't think they're talking about it, but they're still there.
Yeah. I think Harold had an enemy in the underworld, or the netherworld.
It sounds that way. Something. Something went down.
Well, and I think one of their, one of the owners now, one of their family members did say that the only thing that they know that happened in the house, like of late, is that there was like some strange things, like things getting moved around, but nothing like very aggressive.
But they said there was an antique radio that wasn't plugged in, and it would go, and it turns on by itself.
Oh, no, no. When it's not plugged in and it's turning on, I'm like, oh, no, that's not for me.
Yeah, that's that's not for me. I got like serious chills.
Yeah. Yeah, that's a bad one. I don't like that.
Yeah, it's a little scary. But they do say that there's a ghost of a woman that people have seen over the years that is not associated with the house, but is associated with the road.
But I think maybe like. maybe there's something potential connection like why is she just independent from this crazy haunted house that's sitting on the right like i don't know but they don't really know a lot about her like origin story there's like the you know she was like a jilted lover and like her her lover died or she's a like a mom who lost her bit there's all different like yeah yeah iterations his name was harold or his name was harold But they've seen her over the years.
People see her at the cemetery at the end of the road.
And she's usually just walking around in weird hours, wandering in the woods.
She looks sad. I'm also like, is this a lady from across the house?
That's what I was going to say. Or is this her ghost?
Is she even alive still? What's going on here?
Hmm. Hmm. And then the one story I could find that was actually in like a little bit of like an old newspaper clipping was there was this woman named Anna Rhodes Millerton, and she actually killed herself in 1830 after losing her lover, Harold.
Oh, there you go. And this is the one that they think is roaming the cemetery.
Like she could be. Oh, I see. And then I'm like, was the old lady even real?
Or was she a ghost and she came over? I'm just saying.
I like that. Just saying. That's a good theory.
Yeah. And a lot of local residents won't even go down this road at night because they say it's so scary and you get like a weird feeling on that road.
I mean, I would not go down that road during the day.
I would absolutely go down that road. Of course you would.
Let's go. Yeah. I wonder, I wonder if the people who bought that house know any of this.
And if they hear this episode, will they be moving out?
Wait, is that us? Wait a second, sweetie.
That sounds like our house. I don't know.
Burning toilet paper. I thought you did that specially for me, but I thought it was romantic.
But there is that documentary. It's called A Haunting on Dice Road.
It's by Steve. And I think his name is Steve Prozac Shippy.
It's pretty fucking awesome. That's another character.
Son of Mr. Frisbee. But I don't know if the family now has anything to do with the documentary.
I didn't watch the whole thing, but maybe they're a part of it.
I don't know. But that is the case of that haunted house.
And I want to go and see it. But people live there.
I think we should contact them and say, hey, can I come over?
Yeah. It's like an unsolved mystery. I want closure on this.
That's the thing. And I tried to look, too, to see if anybody had brought, like, a Ouija board in there, which I know you're, like, very against.
No, I'm not doing that. But, like, somebody else.
Like, did someone? Yeah. Like, get some answers, talk to someone, have any, like, ghost hunters.
They probably can't because there's a family living there, and I don't think the family's like, sure, come on in.
Right. Yeah, you'd think those shows would be all over this.
Yeah. Those people would go in. This is just one of those that we have to be like, what the hell was that?
For real? A demon. That's the answer. A demon.
It was a demon. We're going to call it right here.
Yeah, that's what it was. I know. That was freaky.
Yeah, so Dice Road. I don't think my hotel that I'm going to tell you about has any fires or sporadic combustions, but it's pretty haunted.
I'm going to tell you about the Holly Hotel.
Have you been there? Holly, Michigan? Yes.
Yes. Oh, I've been to Holly. I haven't been to the Holly Hotel.
All right. Well, let me tell you about it then.
The Holly Hotel was built and founded by a man named John Hurst back in 1892.
So lots of time for haunting. And way back then, Holly was, oh, I just closed out of my dog.
You're like, forget it. Never mind. Let me leave you on your edge.
It's haunted, I tell you. That's it. That's it.
It's just old. So way back then, Holly was just starting to kind of boom and really become like a hustle and bustle in town because of the new railroad lines that were passing through.
And the area near the hotel, especially nearby Martha Street, started really going crazy with activity once that railroad was installed.
And soon enough, over 25 trains would pass through Holly daily, which was a lot back then.
Mm-hmm. And to take advantage of this clear opportunity, the town started building saloons and bars and hotels for all these patrons, which kind of led to Martha Street becoming a bit of a hotspot for drunken fights and just like straight up violence.
You know, the 1800s of it all. Yeah, exactly.
Nobody had anything better to do. So before long, the street would actually become known as Battle Alley because there were so many fights taking place there at all times.
Kind of badass, but like also not great.
But luckily for John Hearst, those passing through Battle Alley that after they were done with their fights and throw and blows, they would usually need a place to rest their head for the night after all that traveling, drinking and fighting.
So John Hurst opened this hotel and he named it after himself at first.
So it was known as the Hurst Hotel originally, or sometimes Hurst House, which just sounds like a TikTok home.
Hurst House. It's kind of a badass name.
It is. I like it. And that's spooky. I feel like it's the Hurst House.
That's way spookier. Yeah. It sounds like Thirst House and it's like hungry for you.
Thirsty for you, I guess. You can open a bar and call it the Thirst House.
Oh, there you go. The attached. I like that a lot.
There's a bar outside, so it works out. And if it was the first one on the block, you could call it First House.
First House, First House, and then stop by Thirst House.
First Thirst House at the Hearst House. Yes.
And then it could be a rap song. Oh, there you go.
We invented rap in the 1890s. I love it.
So he was said to have built it with his wife Lydia in mind, and it showed because the place was absolutely gorgeous.
She had very good taste. It had an elegant dining room that many people of social status would dine in.
It had running water and electricity, which was a very big luxury at the time.
It was three stories high, and it was built with brick because John Hearst had previously owned the Exchange Hotel, which burned down on the same site earlier in 1892.
Wow. I was burying the lead. It's weird that your story had to do with fire because there's so much fire in mine.
You're like, just kidding. The most fire.
It's a lot. I like how he learned from the three little pigs.
Yeah. Like his house burned down and he was like, make it out of bricks.
That won't happen. You would think that wouldn't happen.
That's the way. This spot is, it's got to be haunted by some kind of fire demon.
Ooh. So unfortunately, Hearst House slash Holly Hotel would catch fire more than once over the following years.
John Hearst would no longer own the hotel during these disasters, but some people don't think he's ever left in the first place.
But before he died, and after he opened the hotel late in 1892, John and his wife Lydia and their children and puppy would often be seen in the hotel.
They would have Sunday dinners, and John would always be around to make sure that things were running smoothly.
And the Sunday dinners were a really big thing while they were owners.
And John was a man that liked everything just so.
So he would smoke a cigar as he walked around the hotel and tell everybody what needed to be done.
And they said that the family was very happy in the hotel.
But sadly, Lydia passed away, the wife, 11 years after the hotel was built.
And one year after her death in 1904, John got remarried and decided to sell the hotel two years after that in August of 1906.
That's pretty quick, John. So he sold the hotel to a man first.
He first sold it to a man named Alfred Jones.
But after less than a week, the hotel changed hands again, which is kind of sketchy.
And was put into a man named F.W. Johnson's name.
That's a much better name. It's so much better.
Yeah. F.W. Alfred Jones, what have you been doing here?
Yeah, you didn't need to own that hotel.
This is F.W. Johnson's hotel. But during that time, it seems like John Hearst wasn't totally ready to give the hotel up yet.
So he was still kind of coming in and checking on things.
And I think at first he was actually leasing the hotel for a little bit to kind of see how things were going.
Yeah. Now, in 1907, the hotel caught fire for the first time.
And weirdly, some sources don't recognize that as the first fire.
A lot of times you'll hear that this hotel caught fire two times, but actually three.
Ooh. Oh, wow. Trying to hide that third one.
Yeah, it's probably because this one wasn't the most treacherous fire in the hotel's history.
But, like, that fire sucked. It sucked. So we're not going to talk about it.
Loser fire. Lame. Pathetic fire. Because it also doesn't totally line up with the spookiness of the other two fires.
Oh, okay. Was anybody injured in these fires?
Not this first one. Oh, OK. So that's why.
Yeah, there was no casualties here. Exactly.
So the first fire in 1907 destroyed the roof and the damages totaled five thousand dollars.
And from my research, it doesn't look like anyone was hurt.
And luckily, the hotel was able to be restored in just a few weeks.
And when it reopened, it did so under the name Holly Inn.
So that's how I got the name. Now, just a year later in 1908, the hotel would see more fiery action, but this time in human form.
Carrie Nation, a very well-known activist who was part of the temperance movement, came along.
She came along with her axe, Paul. You knew it.
And she came with her followers to attack the Hawley Inn.
They were against alcohol and any establishment that would sell it.
So on August 29th, 1908, she and her supporters stormed the town of Hawley and would soon head to the inn, literally clubbing people with umbrellas to get into this place.
Damn. Once they were inside. That's old-timey fun.
That is old-timey fun. It's also terrifying.
Like those are sharp, especially back then.
Oh my God, I'd be pissed. Imagine her just running by you and clubbing you with an umbrella.
I would be so mad. I would throw hands. I would tackle her.
Like that would be it. Honestly. So, and imagine like you own this establishment.
Yeah. So once they were inside and Carrie got a load of the decor, which included less than modest photos of ladies on the wall.
Oh, boy. They were a little nakey. Oh. There you go.
She went bananas and she whipped out her axe and started smashing whiskey bottles and cursing the place.
Come on. God, no. The police were called pretty quickly, and Carrie was thrown in jail.
And the next day, Governor Fred Warner visited the hotel to address the public incident, which is funny because from that point forward, a lot of governors would come stay at the Holly.
Now, the next fire took place on January 19th, 1913.
One year earlier, the hotel had been sold again to a man named Joseph P. Allen, and he changed the name to the Allendorf Hotel, which was a bit of a nod to the Waldorf Hotel.
That's a terrible name. I was just going to say.
Come on. And it wasn't even original because he was just ripping off the Waldorf.
Yeah, no. The Allendorf. That just sounds like somebody's evil headquarters.
If I ever get a hotel. The Sidneydorf, exactly.
I'm going to name it the Elanadorf. The Urkdorf.
I like the Urkdorf, actually. That's a good one.
But this fire again destroyed the upper roof and this time the upper two floors.
But Alan was again able to rebuild and it doesn't look like anyone was hurt.
Now, when he did, he lowered the roof, which actually got rid of the upper two floors that were in the towers of the hotel.
Now, the hotel was still multiple stories, but he hoped that it would actually solve the fire issue that seemed to always happen on the roof.
And they would find the source of the fire, but it wouldn't make sense.
They'd be like, yeah, this started here, but why?
Because I was going to say, I was like, I don't know.
Let's try just getting rid of a couple of stories and see if that stops the fires from starting.
I don't know. Get somebody in here. But so while he was remodeling, he redid the hotel and he did it mostly in a Victorian style.
There was dark wood, deep velvet fabric, which I don't know if you want to.
If you want to decorate your hotel with velvet directly after a fire.
I would chance it. You know. I would chance it.
There you go. It's worth it. I love a velvet moment.
The Allendorf is starting to sound pretty.
Right? I don't know. Lots of lace details were incorporated.
Stained glass was incorporated. This is kind of goth.
Yeah. Alan's really going for it. Yeah. He also ordered some of the finest china he could.
Of course he did. He's Alan. This is the Allendorf.
Yes. Yes. So I expect nothing less. I'm saying the new accoutrements attracted people from all over the world.
And the hotel again was bustling with the world's finest guests in no time.
And these people would wear their most luxurious clothing to attend the Sunday dinner, which was still huge.
I want to go there. Right? This is seeming right up your alley right now.
Yeah, exactly. Except when Carrie comes in and smashes everything.
Yeah, yeah. Party pooper. We don't want that.
Get out of here, Carrie. Exactly. It's funny, there's actually a bar named after her in Boston, and I had my engagement photos down there.
Oh, that's hilarious. I'm really sticking it to Carrie.
She needs to read a copy of Cocktail Time.
Right? She needs to see the aesthetic of it all.
Grow up, Carrie. Some grown-up fun. But so Sunday dinners were huge, but now they cost 50 cents to get into.
So it was a little exclusive. Oof. And again, this is post-Depression, so it was a pretty penny.
So that's a lot. Yeah. Now, as the years passed, the hotel would survive two world wars, the Depression, and a lot of other crazy stuff.
But as those years went by, less and less people were traveling through the town.
The nearby opera house had closed its doors, and then eventually the nearby theater.
Theater would do the same. And the bustling life in Holly just wasn't so bustly anymore.
So by the 70s, the hotel soon just became a regular old hotel where people could stay.
You could get pizza there if you wanted to and a beer.
Oh, I'm out. But it sucked. Forget it. And it would again catch fire.
Of course it did. This fire took place on January 19th, 1978.
And get this. Exactly 65 years to the day, to the hour, some people say, of the last fire.
Really? 65 years. Because they introduced pizza and beer.
On the dot. That's exactly it. This demon liked the elegance.
It was like, no eleganza, I'm out. Yeah, I'm going to explode-a-ganza.
He's like, you know what? I'm going to get a nice dinner.
Oh, pizza. He's like, what? Beer? Give me a match.
Exactly. It's like, burn it to the ground.
Up you go. How weird though. That's weird.
That's really crazy. To the day. That's crazy.
To the hour, some people say. Wow. I wasn't there, so I don't know.
You weren't? Not in the 70s. Although I wish.
You belonged there though. I did. So this fire was due to faulty wiring, I guess.
They were able to find the source of this one.
Yeah, yeah. And the new owner, George, excuse me, George, quickly, no, I'm going to say, sorry, George.
Sorry, George. Sorry, George. He quickly got to work afterwards and he restored the hotel to all its original glory.
I think he kind of took a note and was like, bad things are happening.
Let's put this back where it's supposed to be.
Yeah. He took great pride in the project.
He used a ton of the original elements of the hotel, and he used everything original that he could when he rebuilt.
The stair railing from the 1800s that led to the upper floors of the hotel is now a railing on the main floor.
The back bar of the hotel was reconstructed using materials that were actually in the first Cunningham's drugstore, which is nearby.
And the doorway arches were reconstructed to allow full access to all of the main floors, the dining rooms, and the banquet halls.
So once it reopened, it finally became known officially as just Holly Hotel, not the Holly Inn, and opened up as a restaurant this time where you could also stay.
And fun fact, since it reopened in 1979, every state governor has eaten there.
And President George H.W. Bush also did his campaign in 1992 and dined there.
But soon after the Holly was reopened, you know, he was there.
Yeah. After the Holly was reopened, moving away from that, it became like he did that.
I don't know. He ate and he did. He had a pizza.
Yeah. It became super popular again. And it was also put on the National Register of Historic Places in the US.
And since then, many guests who have spent time at the hotel say they've had their own paranormal experience.
Yeah. Yeah. One famous professor of parapsychology and actually somebody who was trying to debunk the haunted claims of everybody was Norman Gauthier.
And he visited the hotel in 1989, like I said, fully intent on debunking all the haunts.
But instead, he left saying that the place was truly, quote unquote, loaded with spirits.
Oh. Wow. I love the idea that he was like, nah, nothing's real here.
And left and he was like, don't go there.
He's like, it's literally the cup overfloweth with spirits.
Yeah. They are packed. They are there. So one of the main haunts that people will tell you about is that they smell cigar smoke.
Ah, I knew the cigar was going to come back.
I told you. Now, they say it seemingly comes out of nowhere.
And like Paul remembered, if you remember, the original owner, John Hurst, was a big cigar smoker.
He did pass away in the 20s. But people who smell the cigars or who see his full body apparition.
Hell, yeah. Oh, that. Maybe he's still hanging out at the hotel, making sure that things are being kept in tip-top shape.
People who actually see him are like, I don't know, maybe he's hanging around.
I think he is. But people will see him wearing a knee-length coat paired with his top hat.
Top hat, full circle, Paul. Oh, look at that.
Wait a minute, here we go. It's me. That's you.
And they sometimes even see him smoking a cigar.
That's a great way to come back. I like that.
Fully decked. Yeah. Smoking a cigar. Just like as you were.
Yeah. I love it. But he showed up a lot during the 70s when the renovations were going on.
And some people think that was possibly because he wasn't happy about them.
But in my mind, since the hotel was being restored to its original glory, he probably just wanted to oversee it and make sure everything was going well.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this smells to me like whatever spirits are in this hotel were fancy spirits.
Oh, absolutely. And, you know, so then when the place was nice, when they went and fell into pizza time, then they were like, burn that thing, burn that shit down.
Yeah, they were like, start anew. They were like, pulse these wires.
We're doing this. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I think he was just maybe frustrated that he technically wasn't in charge anymore if there was anything going on there.
I was going to say, because I know that I will come back and be frustrated that I am no longer in charge of things.
And I'll probably just be like overseeing everybody all the time.
Especially if they're not going so great to begin with.
Yeah. Like if somebody starts tearing stuff out of our house, I'll be like, hey, wait a minute.
I'm going to haunt you. Yeah, I'm going to start a fire.
I'm going to fault the waters. Hands off that wooden door.
That's mine. People have also heard him in a more jovial way when they hear a faint baritone laughter that many believe is him.
That's adorable. And there have actually been previous hotel goers who say they've seen him and heard him speak.
But that seems to be a pretty rare occurrence.
Now, what's he laughing at? Like, if I was in the bathroom, I heard laughter.
I think I would enjoy that. There's certain times in your life where if you hear baritone laughter, you're like, ah, fuck.
Why are you laughing at me? I don't know about this.
I think he's just happy. Yeah. He's just John.
Now, this one I love. People also claim that the Hearst family dog still roams the halls.
That's the best. Aw, yay. They say that barking with no source has been reported, and it's been heard by many of the chefs who work the first morning shift.
And some guests have seen a dog similar to a rat terrier tearing down the hallways, which is exactly kind of the dog they had.
Oh. And sometimes the pup will even brush up against your leg.
Oh, my God. I would die. So cute. I would die.
Exactly. Maybe that's just how they're explaining the little rat issue.
They're like, oh, that's actually a dog.
That's the dog of the owner. It's an adorable dog ghost.
Yeah. That barking you hear? A dog. And that dog's name was Leona Hurst, the Hurst family pup.
Leona? Yeah. Oh, that's great. How sweet.
Leona Hurst. Really awesome. That's amazing.
I think it's a perfect name. I love, that's like those, that's what ritzy people name their dog.
My favorite thing is dogs named like straight up human names.
Oh no, it's the greatest. I was wondering if you had a dog named Ted or something.
Yeah, that's, my fiance has a dog named Ted.
Yes. Oh yay. He was named after Theodore Roosevelt.
There you go. We saw a dog at the dog park once named Kevin.
And I thought that's like the best name for a dog.
Our dog was almost named Kevin. Oh my God. got him when we i was doing uh ghostbusters and it was a toss-up do we call him buster like g-bug or should we call him kevin and we took all these in the park we took a like a survey of people in the park and kevin lost out by like two votes oh but buster is a good one too i like g-buster yeah i like g-buster what kind of dog do you have He's a Scotty.
Oh, so cute. So cute. I love it. I love that.
So that's their family dog. Now, the next haunt is another one that will appeal to your sense of smell.
Many people will get whiffs of perfume, again, seemingly out of nowhere.
And the perfume is described as being a flowery and sweet scent.
And many people believe that it belongs to one of the former hostesses of the hotel, Miss Nora Kane.
Now, on good authority from the staff at the hotel, she's most often spotted in the bar area, which makes sense because she worked there, and in the back hallway, which used to be the main entrance to the hotel.
Now, Nora is also known to be, or was also known to be, a music lover in her day, so now the piano will start playing with no source, and people think it's Nora.
That's the best. Mm-hmm. She also loves a good wedding.
Pretty much any time there's a wedding at the Holly, she will show up in the background of people's photos.
You need to get married at the Holly. I know.
I'm going to call my venue later. Now, does the caterer charge you for that?
For that extra head? If she's eating dinner, she's got to pay.
Trust me. They're stingy with that. But people will look back on their photos and they'll know it's her because there's actually a photo of her hanging in the lobby of the hotel.
Now, when people who haven't seen that photo spot Nora in their pictures, they describe her as graceful, small, and wearing a dress.
She's small. What's weird is that they usually say she doesn't appear to them completely.
Her body is seemingly cut off at the ends.
And she only materializes down to her knees.
I love that. She had legs. I love that. So as soon as they're... Did she meet her demise?
Yeah. Getting cut in half or anything? No.
Oh, she didn't die that way. So weird. Yeah.
Yeah. And she's actually not the only one that shows up like that.
But as soon as people who don't know who she is and they're like, who's this in my photo are shown the photo in the lobby, they immediately say that's her.
Like, that's the one. Nora. Crazy. She's just still partying.
But like I said, she's not the only ghost that shows up to people cut off at the knees.
There was once a Native American man spotted in one of the dining rooms.
He was actually spotted by owner Chrissy, who owns the hotel with her husband George.
It was a Thursday morning, she said, back in February of 1996, and she was getting ready for the Thursday afternoon tea event.
She said it was early in the morning, so she was just checking out the room, seeing what they needed to get ready for the day.
And she said as she walked into the dining room, she saw this man kind of hovering there, cut off at the knees.
What? She said they locked eyes, and she said he was, quote, just as real as anything else in the room, except that he had no feet.
Now, strangely... And was, like, floating.
And was floating. But strangely, this is the first and last time he's ever been seen at the hotel.
Really? Wow. She's the only one to have seen him, but she like is adamant that she saw him.
Just pass him through. Now, one of the final and said to be the most active of the haunts takes place in the kitchen.
And this one's like really creepy and I need to know so much more about this, but there's not a lot on it.
Hmm. there's either one or two children who really love to get chaotic with it in the kitchen.
I don't like kid ghosts. I don't either.
And some people actually believe that if it's one ghost, that it's Nora Cain's daughter.
And they think actually that that is why Nora is wearing black in her photo.
They say she's wearing a morning dress in the lobby.
Now, it's unclear whether or not there's any validity to that, but there's also a theory that it could be the ghost of a little girl who was killed in a nearby accident at a stable down the road or actually, excuse me, not down the road.
The stable is where the parking lot of the hotel is now.
Oh, like it used to be a stable. So whether it's one ghost or two, they're actually having the time of their life in that kitchen.
And this is where I don't like this. They are most drawn to the meat cleaver.
Oh, jeez. What the fuck? Yes. I didn't see that coming.
They just move around the meat cleaver throughout the kitchen.
Oh, my God. That's upsetting. They move other things, but they say the thing that is most often moved is the meat cleaver.
I'm like, they are trying to tell you something and you are not listening.
I thought you were going to say something cute like the standing mixer.
No. Because it makes cakes. Exactly. No, they're not interested in cakes.
They're interested in pulverizing. Wow. So creepy.
That's upsetting. Now, this ghost also loves to run up and down the stairs of the hallway.
And one of the possible two of them appeared during a seance in the 90s and was described as being between 9 and 13 years old, which is exactly how I describe most children.
I'm like, they're between like 6 and 24.
I'm terrible at saying ages. With red hair.
And during that seance, the little girl was the only ghost to show herself.
It was me. You do look between 9 and 13.
There you go. And then honorable mention goes to the third floor of the hotel, which is rumored to be closed off because of the hauntings that are just too much to handle.
Oh, I love that. They're not even reported.
But get this. Most recently, in June of 2022, the hotel caught fire again.
Oh, no. So this is like the fourth fire.
It's currently closed, actually, temporarily, while they are trying to rebuild it.
But the fire this time was so bad that it actually destroyed many other buildings nearby.
Ooh. I don't know. And they're hoping they can reopen during summertime in 2023.
And luckily, they say they still have a lot of important historical paintings and photos, thanks to Fire Chief Steve McGee.
So shout out to him and his responding on firefighters.
Hell yeah. The real McGee. Yeah. Yeah. They were able to run in there and, like, take all the good stuff.
The important historical stuff. Before it got destroyed.
Oh, wow. Wow. Did they start serving pizza again?
That's what I was wondering. Like, what's going on?
Maybe that's it. I would think that George and Chrissy wouldn't serve pizza.
They know better. Yeah. I think you'd learn your lesson, by the way.
Not George. Not George. Not George. George wouldn't and George wouldn't either.
Yeah, he would not. But, yeah, if you're ever in Michigan, stay at the Holly Hotel and let us know what you see.
And go drive down Dice Road. No, don't do that.
Yeah, there you go. Well, I mean, it must have been a great place to work if nobody wanted to leave it even after they died.
Yeah, I think so. John really liked it. Yeah, he loved it.
And I love that Nora just plays the piano.
Yeah, she loves it. It's very White Lotus if you watch some of the time of her life.
It's like even though like the Magic Castle you've been there where they got Irma, the piano that.
No, but I want where we're going to be going.
Yeah, we are actually. Yeah, it's fun. It's very fun.
Yeah, I'm excited. I was going to say, when you said play the piano, they have those that play on their own.
Creepy. You go up and you ask it a question and it answers you.
That's cool. I didn't know that. Oh yeah, it's really fun.
I like that a lot. That's really rad. Well, this was so much fun.
Thank you for coming on. Thank you for having me.
First of all, I just had the greatest time.
I love you guys. And also, it's fun to hear some good Michigan ghost stories.
I know now you're going to have something to talk about when you go back to Michigan.
Yeah. That is for sure. Next time you can warn everybody.
That's right. No, thanks so much. It was just so much fun.
And I just, honestly, this is the best, the best podcast going.
Oh, thank you so much. Well, you are welcome back anytime.
Anytime you want to hear some more spooky stories, we will be happy to have you.
Yeah. I would love to do that. Perfect.
All right, guys, go watch School of Good and Evil.
Go get cocktail time. I will link it all.
Go do all the things that Paul Feig did.
Go watch Sabrina the Teenage Witch. And Bridesmaids.
Yeah, exactly. And pour yourself a nice gin.
Yeah, exactly. Yes, fall in love with Mr. Poole again, everybody.
The whole country. It was so big at one point, the love of Mr. Poole.
That's right, yeah. We'll bring it back.
A balloon in the Macy's parade. I think it was floating over.
We can make it happen. Yeah. Keep it that weird.
Keep it so weird that there is a Mr. Pool parade in the Macy's.
A Mr. Pool float. No, a parade. Yeah. Can I join you in the keep it weird?
Yes. Oh, good. Excellent. All right. We hope you keep listening and we hope you keep.
Keep it weird. And that's so weird that you burned down a hotel.
There you go. There you go. Perfect. I tried.
It was perfect. I loved it. If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.
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