Hey weirdos, Elena here. If you're looking to kick back and relax with Morbid, Wondery Plus is the way to go. it's like having a cozy seat in our haunted mansion no ads just you and early access to new episodes You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or in Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
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I have been listening to the Martha's Vineyard Beach and Book Club, which actually Elena recommended to me.
She did not listen to it, but she said, girl, this title sounds so you.
And let me tell you, it did. I've been listening to it while I walk, and I am absolutely loving it.
I love all the Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen.
Sign up for a free 30-day Audible trial and your first audiobook is free. visit audible.com slash morbid.
I am absolutely obsessed with a sweet treat after dinner, and my favorite sweet treat right now is my mochi.
It's mine now! Not yours. Just kidding.
You can have some too. This is a cool creamy scoop of ice cream. wrapped in a soft, chewy dough.
It's like a sweet little ice cream dumpling or ravioli.
I'm obsessed. It's pillowy. It's satisfying.
I feel indulged. I just love it so much.
I really am obsessed with the strawberry flavor right now.
My mochi is only around 70 calories per piece, which like, hello, that's amazing.
My mochi is gluten free and each box has six perfectly portioned mochi snacks.
Do I eat two a night? Yeah, yeah I do because they're that good.
And guess what? My mochi is the number one mochi ice cream in the US of A.
The strawberry flavor is bursting with fresh picked fruit flavor that tastes incredibly refreshing.
I love, love, love them after dinner. This August, look for the purple box of My Mochi ice cream at your local grocery store. and feel joyfully chill with the coolest treat around, my mochi.
Hey weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Alayna. And this is Morbid.
We're back, babies. That one felt like, I was like... this yeah so it felt good this is morbid it felt good i appreciate you know what I'll just like get right into it really quick and this will be quick.
It won't be 15 minutes like the other one.
Will it be quick, Alina? You guys rock. You rule.
You roll. You do all of it. I love you all.
All the kind words. I was trying to think of another verb.
Another R word. Is that a verb? But seriously, you guys are amazing.
In that last episode we kind of spilled everything.
And it felt really good to say it. I felt like I was like talking to my friends about it.
So I really appreciate it. That's like the most therapeutic.
Very cathartic. It was very pathetic. I almost just said, that's like, so.
That is. You sound like my littlest one.
She is like the cutest little lisp. I know.
Rubs off. But honestly, you guys were amazing.
We've had so many like kind words and everybody's been really cool.
And a lot of people were like, if you want to take more time off, feel free to, which again, thank you so much.
Really? But honestly, it feels good to be like that.
I like thrive. Like, hello, it's Capricorn season.
I'm so scared. We're here and we're going to ruin everyone's lives with our richness.
It has like fully bathed in the Capricorn season.
I feel good today. I feel good. Yeah. See, I feel good.
My littlest one is feeling good. She's back to being her old like Her ragey self, like, she's really, like, she's in the thick of it yelling at everybody, so I feel good.
She was pissed. today pissed that she couldn't go outside because it's raining and she was like I'm gonna pull out my boots I'm going to put my boots and go outside.
And I was like, well, you can't. It's pouring rain and you literally have COVID.
And she was like, but I want to. It's just like, you know what?
We want to. Yeah, she's great. I get it.
She's feeling it. I mean, she's not Capricorn, but she's feeling it.
She might as well be. She's a virgin. the energy she's feeling it but she's doing good you know we got little from our vet we got little like paw prints and a nose print of Bubba.
The nose print. ruined it ruined me for a second but like the card was so sweet we heard from like all her doctors And just seeing her little nose again with little paws.
I smelled it. looked at it was like you know what she's here now we have every piece of her now so she's here she's in the house we got her i feel her I swear I heard her slurp the other night and I was like, Bubba.
And then I was like, oh, you're not here.
But then I was like, yes, you are. You're right there.
Yeah, she stays slurpy. So I feel her. I feel it.
And you know, everybody's starting to get on the mend.
We're feeling back in the groove. Yeah. I just I'm feeling good today.
And I think like you all had a really big part of that.
So I appreciate it. immensely because everybody was just awesome like we got a real like You guys are really cool.
You guys are cool. You guys are really cool.
I'm just really glad we have this community of best friends that we can just be like, I said to somebody, they were like, oh my God, take off next week.
But it was so great hearing your voices.
Yeah. along those lines. And it was funny because you and I were just talking about it and we were like, no, we missed you guys like when we sat down the other day to record i was like oh man like i needed that It felt right.
We had that week that we took, but it was more of a week of chaos.
Definitely wasn't like a relaxing reprieve or something.
We were not really vibing. But then I realized, and at first I remember we were like, you know, we were We're going to take that week before Christmas and we're going to kind of have it be like a little bit of a reprieve or whatever from just like working constantly.
But then we realized after this last week, we're like, actually, it feels weird not to.
Like, I don't like that. It's not because.
We've just, this is what we do now. This is us.
This is us. Not the show. This is us, Lauren Graham.
This is us. Is that her real name? I literally only know her as Lorelai.
Lauren Graham is in This Is Us. Oh no, she's in that other one.
I was like, wait a second. Parenthood. Thank you.
There you go. Just like we are family. One of those.
I'm surprised that's not the show. I was like, wait, Mandy Moore is in This Is Us.
But you know what? That's neither here nor there.
Just wanted to say thank you so much. You guys rule.
We're feeling good. We're back, baby. And...
I have something that has been just eating away at my psyche for the past 24 hours.
I know I just said everything's fine, but this is... different.
This is different. A different compartment.
So, As you know, the West Memphis three case is a case that like I am very It's very close to my heart.
And there has been a huge... huge news break in this case.
Now We heard recently, I think it was the past year or so we've heard that when they were trying to test the evidence that they have from it because they're trying to prove... that someone else did this obviously yep and we're trying to find out who there are three eight-year-old boys who lost their lives that are still that killer or killers is still walking around free.
It's making me crazy. And for the last year or so, we've heard a lot of reports and we've kind of talked about it just a little bit. that the West Memphis Police Department said that all the evidence that they could use to test any further was lost in a fire.
And so when you heard that, everybody was like, what in a fire?
And it was devastating at first. It was like in a fire. fire we're never getting that back like that's gone yeah it's over like we'll never be able to choose it was devastating everyone was like What fire?
But then everybody was like, wow, when was this fire?
And they were like, yeah, it was at a time.
It was definitely at a place. Unrecorded. though and um it was hot like fire is and we were like oh okay and then you know authorities were like can we like you know maybe see like records of this fire and they're like no no no we can't do that no And they were like, why though?
And they were like, I don't know. Just, you know, fire.
Fire's fire. You know, like we don't need to talk about it anymore.
No. Yeah. They're like, only you can prevent fires.
Yeah, that's it. The end. And then they just kind of shut... It was like, what?
But... you know, Damian Echols and Jason Baldwin and their attorneys.
Mara Leverett, who wrote Devil's Knot, she's been like really into this case and everybody else who has advocated for them was like, no, no, no, no, no.
You're gonna show proof of this fucking fire.
Where's that fire? Turns out... fire department came i was like there's no fire like there was no fire what are the who's talking about fire Who just pulled that out of their ass and was like, no one will ask follow-up questions.
That was weird enough. That they were like, there was a fire and there wasn't a fire.
I just love that they didn't think anything was going to come of it.
And then they came out and were like, there wasn't a fire.
And it was like, okay, now what? Can we have that evidence then?
And they were like, it's lost. I don't know.
So now, yesterday... Right before Capricorn season started because we're going to get shit done in Capricorn season.
I'm telling you. Oh, yeah. I'm telling you.
Did it start today? I feel it is today. Is it today?
So all of a sudden it came out that one of the attorneys for Damien Echols, Patrick Benka, said that he was in West Memphis.
Now the police chief, Mike Pope, resigned.
By the way. Quote unquote resign. He resigned.
Don't know why. Can't imagine why. But Banka was in West Memphis yesterday morning and told Damien. oh, here's all the evidence.
It's all here. And he said specifically, Even the ligatures.
That's so haunting. It is there. He... They lied.
It's literally there. Not only that, they released photos this morning, one of the news stations around there, And all of it is not only there, it's all there.
It's pristine condition. And it was cataloged.
It's insane. It's perfectly there. When you see this photo, even the bikes are there.
At least one of the bikes. When you said that, I like...
The ligatures are there. We can test this shit.
And it's not, this is not on the national news.
What the fuck is going on? The fact that it's not is crazy.
That police chief resigned. this week resigned and then this comes out and they have every piece of evidence they have been hiding and first of all let me tell you We're doing an episode where we are going to talk about this.
I just needed to get this out right now. because it's happening but trust me we're gonna do a full-blown episode on this because holy shit i hope it just goes to the stratosphere.
It will. These police officers, this department, were covering up for a murderer of three eight-year-old boys. three children who were brutally tortured and murdered.
And they are like... withholding evidence and lying about evidence.
They lie. They said it was gone and all of it is right there.
That's wild. I know this happens all the time, but for a case like this where it's just like...
They, especially with that Alfred plea and everything involved in this...
The fact that they took these three men, the West Memphis threes, their lives away.
Absolutely. And continue to. Almost two decades, like, in prison.
And then... And afterwards, they still have to walk around with that stigma. kicked them out on their asses.
They just get to maintain their innocence.
They didn't get to They didn't get to sue for all of the time that was stolen from them, all the medical conditions they suffered from it, all the psychological torture. everything and like try getting a job when you have that as your record none of them got a dime from it nope None of them were able to get themselves officially acquitted and cleared.
And the state of Arkansas is just sitting there being like, well...
And it's like, first of all, if anybody in their right mind thought that a state would let three child murders walk free when they knew that they were guilty that it tells you right there that they knew they weren't guilty.
They would never let those three men walk out of there that afternoon and If they for one second believe they were guilty, they wouldn't do it.
No. They knew they had nothing. They knew that they didn't do it.
They know who did it. and they're whoever it is they're covering up for these people and it's insane well because there is no other reason that they should keep that evidence And I guess Damien was told that the police chief was going to be fired and then he never was fired.
Oh, yeah. It came out that he quote unquote resigned, but that's interesting.
Oh, yeah. was going to be fired on December 21st, which was, wasn't that yesterday?
He was going to be fired on December 21st, but he resigned.
Interesting. It's wild to me. Interesting.
So I promise you we are going to go. so much further into that on another episode, but man, I had to like just scream about that because I'm going crazy.
And also, I want to find a way to tell Get this to all these news stations.
This should be national fucking news. Of course it should.
This kind of cover up and this kind of bullshit from a police department should be everywhere.
Well and another reason that it should be everywhere is like what if they destroy it now that they well they can't now it's been taken out oh they took it there's a photo of people going through it now oh it's out Because that's scary.
And now they can't. I'm honestly so- Because it's like, of course, but I'm like-
It's surprising. I know. But it's more just like this should be known.
Like, now there should be a real investigation into this police department.
And now, like, let's get this shit tested.
Let's start getting the real suspects in here.
Let's solve this fucking case. I just can't. can't believe that that was all sitting there all like I do believe it but like I cannot believe no I can't like Holy shit.
I know this shit happens, like corruption happens like this all the time.
But to this... that level. And when you just see it play out like this, the way this is played out is just so like like just jaw dropping, it's...
Amazing. It's insane. It's, like, really... crazy but hopefully we'll have way more updates to do a full episode so we can talk about this because I am so hoping for some kind of justice for Damian, Jesse, and for Jason. for Michael, Stevie, and Christopher.
Yeah. All six of these boys deserve to have their justice.
And their families. They still have family members that are alive, obviously.
And then, like, it shows how this, you know, how these original, like, Fogelman there and shit from the original investigation...
It shows how they looked not only at the three, the West Memphis three, but at the families of these victims that they weren't. worthy enough to get justice.
And it's like, these were cheap. I mean, he literally used it just to get Damien in prison.
He hated Damien. It's wild. It's wild. It's a witch hunt.
If you want to go listen to the West Memphis Three episodes, you can hear all about the case if you're not sure what we're talking about here.
But again, we'll do another episode. Elena did like a four-parter, so that will now be five.
Yeah. It'll probably be more. But yeah, had to scream about that for a minute.
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We took it. She did. So when we left off in part one, everybody, things were going.
Crazy. More chaos. Why did I just stutter?
It's like I start and it's just like. You know, it happens.
Nancy and Derek Hasem had just been found absolutely brutally murdered in their home.
And seemingly it was like a dinner gone wrong because all the chairs were pushed back and everything.
So the sheriff that arrived on scene, H.C.
Wells, immediately assumed that this was a male killer because of the brutality on scene.
And the fact that whoever this person was, was able to take over Derek Hasem because he was like, a big dude.
And presumably they had to be fighting Nancy off at the same time.
So it's like... He definitely thought that a man had to have done this.
Yeah. But the question was, who would want to do this to the Hasems and why?
Like, why did this happen in the first place?
That's what I'm wondering. So at the time in Virginia, they had actually set up a regional homicide squad where the six counties agreed that if a homicidal investigation became too big for just one county, they would all work on it together.
And this was actually one of the first times where they had to band together and do this because really like they had some good evidence but there wasn't a lot to do with it at the time because remember this is the 80s like There's not a lot of testing that they can do, unfortunately.
So some of the evidence left behind were bloody fingerprints, which needed to be sent out for testing. a bloody handprint found on the dining room chair, a mouse trap, A bloody footprint impression that they were able to determine came from somebody wearing only socks.
And had it been made by a woman, the shoe size would have been a six and a half, seven.
And if worn by a man, it would be a five or six shoe size.
Okay. There was also a piece of hair that did not belong to Derek or Nancy found in their bedroom.
And the hair evidence was, quote, a Caucasian head hair approximately one and a half inches in length from root to diagonally cut end.
No. Again, it sounds like a lot of evidence, but this is 1985.
There's not a lot they can do with it. Forensics had not come that far yet.
Yeah. So they started from square one. Ricky Gardner and Chuck Reed were the two lead investigators on the case.
And their first move was to talk to the neighbors.
Have you seen anything? like has anything weird been going on anybody who knew the hastems they just wanted to get a picture of like what had been going on yeah like tell us everything And they obviously were having to track down all the Hasem's children, who I mentioned in part one. they were like scattered all across the map, like all across everywhere.
But interestingly enough, the neighbors didn't really seem to know Derek or Nancy that well.
And those who did just didn't have any information to give the police.
Nobody really had anything to say. And all of Derek and Nancy's kids had alibis because most of them were literally in another country when this happened.
Most of them, except for Elizabeth, were in another country.
So Elizabeth was the only one who lived in Virginia with her parents.
She was living at school, but then when she would come home, she'd be at home.
Yeah. But she had been off with her boyfriend Jens that week doing a little road trip from DC to Charlottesville.
So they were like, what the fuck? Like, who did this?
So early on in the investigation and mostly because I think they didn't have a lot of other places to go just yet.
They wondered if this was somehow satanically motivated.
Oh, there it is. Because again, 1985. So we are in the height of the satanic panic era.
Right when I came on the scene. Yeah, literally.
And the investigators talked to like some kind of satanic ritual expert like.
I don't even know who that would be. Same guy from the West Memphis Three Ks, probably.
Yeah, with like the printout degree. This person claims that there were a lot of signs that this was some kind of ritual killing.
The experts first noted that all of the chairs at the dining room table that were pushed back were facing north.
Okay, so that's huge. Yeah, it is. The bodies were also facing north.
And this one I'll give to them. Derek had that little V cut into his chin.
So they were like, that's ritualistic. And then they also found another little V in some of the blood by Nancy's body.
And next to that V, they also believed that they saw the number six, which is like huge in satanic rituals.
But it was like a V. very little marking on like the wood in the floor.
Like in the blood. Are there any crime scene photos of it?
I think so. I'll have to double check if I didn't see any with the number six in them.
But maybe. The crime scene photos are very intense.
Yeah. But there was also the way that the blood was surrounding the bodies.
Whoever had done this had gone back like at some point and like just in their socks with the blood pooled around the bodies.
They had like swished it all around. Ooh.
To me, that kind of just says like they were doing it to like clean up or like destroy any like maybe something that they had left behind.
Yeah. I don't know why that would be satanic, but they were like, Satanism.
So Satanists like use their socks to like... Yeah.
Okay, okay. Just to like swirl. I don't know if they thought like the pattern.
It was literally just like swirled around, but... all right so yeah I mean who's to say who's to say I'm not a satanic ritual guy yeah I don't claim to be one but speaking of blood Later into the investigation, they were able to do luminol testing on the scene.
And it showed a set of bloody footprints walking from the living room to the bedroom and then into the bathroom off of the bedroom.
So the killer at the very least like washed up in there, but they also thought he may have taken a shower. oh which is so haunting to think about like you have two bodies lying in different rooms in that house and you're covered in their blood and you're just gonna hop in their shower.
And you just did this brutal, awful, chaotic murder.
And then you're just going to calmly shower in their house?
Like, what? No. Now, they did testing outside of the home too, and it showed two sets of footprints. and they were both the same size.
So it showed obviously the killer had come outside and gone back in.
And they think this is one person because it's like a set coming out and then a set going back.
Okay. Um, and they thought like maybe he had gone outside and like been spooked by something or like maybe somebody saw him.
So he went back inside and waited longer.
Yeah. Or maybe had gone inside to make sure that like he had really killed them and maybe at that point their throats were cut.
That's what they were thinking. And later on when the FBI was able to profile the scene, they disagreed with the sheriff.
They said they did not think that this was the work of a male killer, but a female who knew the house well.
So an acquaintance at the very least. Okay.
So just as they got to the point where they were shifting the focus to a female in the case, and like maybe involved in the Hasems life, one just offered herself right up.
Her name was Margaret Louise Simmons, and she just walked into the police station, was like, why haven't you guys talked to me yet?
And they were like, grab a chair, Margaret.
Sit down, Marge. So Marge, at one point, had been engaged to Derek's son, Julian.
And she was also Nancy's first cousin. Oh.
But remember, Derek's son is, like, from a previous marriage, so they're not related.
Yeah, okay. No veterans. took me a second no weird stuff going on here it's fine nothing crazy going on no no So she told the police a lot about her and Julian's relationship and how Derek and Nancy didn't approve of her.
And she thought that they were the breakdown of her and Julian's relationship.
So as they got to find out more about Margaret, they also learned from one of her friends that she had recently shown up to his house with a couple of knives.
And she was saying to him like the demons are back again.
Oh, no. Yeah. She also apparently told him that she was scared she was going to do something bad, like she was scared.
Oh, she's having a legitimate mental health crisis.
Yes, exactly. Is everybody seeing this? Is everybody okay?
Can someone help her? We're like, instead of helping you, can you actually just sit down and do a polygraph?
Yeah, for sure. We know you're kind of stressed, but do you mind?
And she agreed. And when the results came back, it showed that she had been deceptive when answering two specific questions.
One of them was, were you at the Hasem house the night they were murdered?
She showed deception on that. And then she showed deception when they said, did you kill the Hasems?
Which polygraphs don't mean anything. Hot dog in a trench coat.
And also... She's clearly going through a mental health crisis, like very clearly.
There's several things. She showed up with knives to somebody's house and was like, the demons are back. said I think I'm gonna do something and then walked into a police station and was like why has no one talked to me that's like guys Call someone.
Please call someone. And it's like, I don't think she's sitting down to a polygraph and is going to be like...
Like, did you do the test questions? Like, did you make sure that she is in a state where she should be taking a polygraph?
Probably not. Like, clearly she wasn't.
I don't know why I made that noise, but she wasn't.
So the more and more that they talked to Margaret about what happened that night, they realized there was no way she was capable of the murders.
No. Um, she would go on like really long diatribes about when her and Julian were together. different vacations that they'd gone on, just things that were not relevant to the investigation.
And they realized that she was suffering from mental illness.
Of course. gone to like hospitals and like gotten treatment before and pretty recently and So they were like, she's definitely not our leading suspect.
She's just going through it. And she actually asked if she could take another polygraph test at like a different period in time. and she gave the investigators fingerprints, footprints, DNA. she was totally cleared from any wrongdoing.
That's not shocking to me at all. No. But so they then made like they were like, OK, but like we still need to look at the females involved in their life.
And like, so who are we going to look at?
Let's look at Elizabeth. She has an alibi, but like.
She's the closest one here. and there was like some weird stuff at the funeral that we'll talk about.
So they were like, we need to talk to her.
And she's the one that's like gone through a lot.
She's gone through a lot. She's also the youngest and she still lives there.
Like, to a to a point makes sense why they would look at her yeah so she had this alibi she was with jens on a legal on a little weekend trip but they were like that's cool.
We just want to like get to know you a little more.
Yeah. I just want to know what's up. So they had taken note that Jens at the funeral had some bandages on his hands and also had a bruise over his eye.
Oh, yes. And although this is not a crime, it was like Elizabeth really didn't seem too emotional, not only at the funeral, but just in day to day life, like people were commenting on her lack of emotion with like the brutal death of her parents. yeah which people always are going to and we talk all the time like that's not really like that it's not like smoking gun or something it doesn't mean you're guilty No, but it definitely can be a weird thing when there's other stuff that can point to you.
Raises some eyebrows. Yeah. So they brought her in for an interview.
She literally brought a sandwich with her.
Brought a sandwich to her interview about... Low blood sugar, I guess.
Like, girlfriend, what? Like, I understand a fellow hungry gal, but...
I don't know how much I would want a sandwich when talking about the brutal murder of my elderly parents.
Yeah, no, I could barely eat after. after putting bubba to sleep no like of course not never mind my parents she brought um is it marmite Marmite, oh yeah.
Marmite sandwich. And they were like, oh, okay.
Yeah. Anyways, that's not really important, but I just wanted to put it in there.
I think it's Marmite. I hope I wasn't just like, yeah.
Let me Google it. Yeah, let's Google it just to make sure.
Marmite. I was right. Yeah, you were right.
All right. Good. We're good here guys. Marmite.
So during the interview, the detectives learned all about Elizabeth's time at home.
Wick'em, Abby. Say it right this time, biatch.
Wick'em. I actually wrote in my notes, say it right this time, biatch.
She did, I saw it. So somebody tweeted at me.
They were like, oh, I actually went there.
And you don't say it how you did. like oh fuck and i looked it up in part one and then i just didn't write it down i guess so it's wickham abby But thank you for telling us.
Yeah, thank you for telling us because I didn't want to sound like a moron.
And you were like super nice about it. Yeah, the person that said it was like looking nice about it.
And they went there, so they know. Yeah, they were like, you know.
Just saying. And they were saying, like, Elizabeth's legacy is cray-cray.
Yeah, which is crazy. I shouldn't say legacy.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, they're in this interview and they learn all about her time at school, her version of the time that she spent in Europe as a runaway. and she that was when she said that her parents were just glad that she got it out of her system if you listen to part one that's That's what she said their attitude was about the whole thing.
And she just really wanted to make it clear that she had a great relationship with her parents.
She loved them. They did everything for her.
It was like they almost loved her too much.
Uh oh. And she said the last time she had physically seen them was the weekend of March 23rd. and that when she had seen them, she had planned to talk to them on the phone on Tuesday, the 26th.
Okay. And then, no, no, no, excuse me, I'm so sorry.
So she had seen them on March 23rd, then she had talked to them on Tuesday the 26th.
Oh, okay. And then, sorry, made plans to talk again on the 31st, that Sunday.
But when she called them that Sunday, there was no answer.
So that's when she didn't hear from them on Tuesday and she called that friend to go check on them.
And then obviously we know what happened from there.
The hastens had been discovered on Wednesday, April 3rd. but police were able to determine that they'd either been killed Friday or Saturday.
Oh, OK. Yeah, like the Friday or Saturday before.
So they were in there for a little bit. Now, when asked what she was doing the specific weekend that they were killed, Elizabeth explained the whole Charlottesville DC trip.
She said, we rented a car, we went sightseeing, Then we spent the night in a hotel, the Georgetown Marriott. and they went to see a couple movies, which she bought ticket stubs for.
One of them was Porky's Revenge, and the other one was the Rocky Horror Picture Show.
Hell yeah. And she agreed to give them her DNA.
She agreed to give them fingerprints. um this all sounds great which also would be found in the house anyway so like it's really not that helpful Yeah, that's true.
Because she lives there. But I mean, yeah, I guess you're right.
I mean, well, yeah. Her DNA is all over the place.
I was just going to say she literally lives there.
I was like, well, wait, the DNA. And then I was like, well, no, she literally lives there. yeah like part-time but she was free to go and before she left she was sure to tell the investigators You know, daddy has a lot of enemies.
She called her dad daddy. Has a lot of enemies. and like a lot of them are from like business dealings and like his time in different countries so like i just want you to know that she's like just a Just throw that out there.
Lots of enemies. So they were like... Yeah, cool.
Thanks. And then she left. Chuck Reed and Ricky Gardner looked at each other and they were like, she was weird, right?
Like that was strange, right? That whole thing was really off, correct?
And they both agreed like, yeah, that was weird.
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The sale ends 831. Don't miss it. So they went to check out the car that Elizabeth and Jens had rented, and they were like, maybe we'll find something in there, like maybe some blood or something.
Yeah. They didn't find blood or anything like that, but they were able to find out that the car was returned with a lot more miles on it than a trip from Charlottesville to DC would have taken.
429 miles to be exact. Extra. You're going to notice that.
429 extra miles. Yeah, that's going to flag.
Weird, too, because that actually would have been the distance from Charlottesville to Washington, Washington to loose chippings and back.
Weird. So crazy. Weird how that all worked out.
So they said, hey... Elizabeth, what's up with the 429 that we got?
You want to explain that? We are so silly, me and Jens.
We got lost. For 400 miles. We got lost on our sightseeing trip and, you know, we just... kept going in circles and it was it's so embarrassing for 400 miles and they were like Yeah, that's weird.
Um, that's a relatively short trip that you took.
It's like a two and a half hour ride. And you're a fucking world traveler and so is your boyfriend.
Yeah. And you guys got lost sightseeing on a two hour trip.
Yeah. Okie dokie. For 400 miles. Yeah. Okie dokie.
Like, okay. So by that point in the investigation, they had talked to Jens two once or twice, but he refused to give...
Anything. No DNA, no fingerprints, no nothing.
He was like, fuck that. bruh and he said he had a reason he said it was because his father was a diplomat And if like all of this was going on, he was worried that it would become public and then This whole investigation thing would be placed on him.
It would make his father's reputation go down the tank.
That's cute. That's a good story. Yeah. That's really, that's nice.
But you still have to cooperate with an investigation of which you are now a person of interest in.
Also, your girlfriend's two parents were brutally murdered.
So like, yeah. I think people might find out that you're attached to her at some point in time.
You are literally a person of interest in this investigation, so you... you kind of have to cooperate.
Thank you. You can't just be like, well, my dad... My dad's a diplomat.
My dad's a diplomat, so... Sorry. It's like, no, that doesn't work.
That's not like, oh, okay. Oh, shit. All right.
Yeah. It's not like my doctor says I can't do PE today.
It's not the same. It's not like I have my period.
I can't do this. It's not the same. I had my period every single time we had to do anything in gym.
I loved gym. I have cramps. Sorry. I was a weird kid.
I hated Jim so much. Clearly. Every time they tried to talk to Jens, he would talk to them.
And his story would be like... very, very identical to Elizabeth's, like too identical.
So finally in early October, the investigators were They felt like they were close to getting Jens to hand over some DNA.
And he said, you know, I just have to go home.
I have to clear this with the German embassy.
And then once I hear back from them, can you imagine?
I just have to clear this with the embassy.
And then I think they're going to get back to me.
I'll come in tomorrow and we'll figure this out.
Like I'll give you my DNA. Okay, Dorothea.
Yes. And they were like, okie doke. Yeah.
Tell us what the embassy says. Totes. So, well, folks, you can imagine.
What happened? The next day came and went without Jens ever showing up.
Oh, no. So the police went out to he and Elizabeth's apartment, because by this time they got an apartment together, because obviously she's still not living in that house.
Yeah. But they were met by the couple's roommate who handed them a letter that Jens had intentionally left for investigators Reed and Gardner.
And it read, I don't know, Dear Offices Reed and Gardner, I assume that you especially, Mr. Gardner, will be very excited by now. which is why I hate to disappoint you.
Well, that's not exactly true. I suggest that you continue your investigation as before.
Undoubtedly you will find whom you are looking for.
As for me, I'm afraid you must remain, as Officer Reed put it, only 99% sure of my innocence.
From what Liz has told me of what you discovered at Loose Chippings, I can only say I'm incapable of such a thing.
I do not have many friends, but I think they will all substantiate this and my long-standing dissatisfaction with my life here.
Okay. He has literally written by somebody who wrote an early aughts WB
Like, like drama. Yes. He's a villain. Yes. from, you know, whatever those like, you know, they would have like the Superman or like the Batman like teen dramas yeah like before they were actual adults yep he's that's like lex luther yep From those.
Like a WB writer. Yeah. CW writer. Yeah.
Wrote that. Wrote Jens. Wrote that. You can also watch interviews.
Are you kidding me? with uh yeah you can watch interviews with him and he's he very much gives off those vibes That's so bad.
That's so bad and so cringy. And the part where he's like, I hate to disappoint you and then puts in parenthesis like, Well, that's not exactly true.
No, that was the part where I was like, oh no, somebody in the CW writers room was like, Oh, shit, everyone.
This is really going to drop the mic. Like, what?
This is his villain origin story. No, that's the worst thing I've ever heard.
Yeah. And then I love that he was like, I don't have a lot of friends, but they'll substantiate that I didn't murder anyone.
My no friends will substantiate this for me.
We'll go hunt them down and that will be evidence in a court of law.
Thank you. Wow. So as the officers were reading that letter, Elizabeth and Jens were most likely on their plane rides to Europe. because they ran away to fucking Europe.
Yeah, of course they did. So to get out there, they traveled separately and in disguises.
And then when they met up in Europe, they their whole plan was that they were going to rent a car and like go on a road trip together. but unfortunately tripping.
Yeah. Fucking love a road trip. Um, unfortunately though they ended up in a car accident and they had to fly again which was something they didn't want to do obviously because they're on the fucking run So they flew to Bangkok, actually.
And it was there that they went to a printing shop, and they got all kinds of false traveling documents.
What? They got Canadian driver's licenses, certified passports and citizen certificates.
And each of them had three different sets of photos for each document to make sure it didn't look like it was like the same day.
And each one they like would change up their hair or like put like a different shirt on or something.
What? Yeah. Yeah. crazy. How is this real?
It doesn't sound real at all. They also started going by different names and made up different backstories in case anybody asked.
Now they were a Canadian couple, Tim and Julia Holt.
Oh, okay. They had gone to college together at the University of Kent and then been married shortly after that.
How lovely. And it was with those fake names that they set up their bank account with Lloyd's Bank.
Now, they were able to get check guarantee cards, which made it so that the bank would still honor a bounced check up to 50 pounds.
Oh, or 60 US dollars. It was like a policy that that bank had back then.
OK. And by this point, they were back in London. and they had come up with this scheme that they were going to do together while shopping at Marks and Spencer.
One of them would buy a leather jacket at the store and they would use their guaranteed check.
And then later on that same day, one of them would come back with another jacket from a different location. and return it for cash.
So the scheme worked because Marks and Spencer We're never missing out on their money, if you think about it.
It takes a minute to think about. Yeah, it does.
Lloyd's Bank had a policy at the time where they didn't report fraud under 10,000 pounds.
Oh. So it was kind of genius. No, that's like really cunning.
Yeah. Like very cunning. Because through this little scheme, Elizabeth and Jens made a profit of around 6,000 pounds, or at the time, $9,000.
Holy shit. yeah like wow not doing a single thing just that just returning a leather jacket every day yeah They would just go to different locations around the city.
Damn. So with that money, they opened up an account together at Midland Bank under the name Stonehouse.
Tara Lucy Ngo and Christopher Platt Ngo.
Yeah. They moved into like a little apartment or a flat, I should say, in Bath. and they kept up their Mark Spencer scheme.
So usually they'd go in separately, and like hours apart.
But one day Elizabeth wanted to spice things up a little bit and she thought they should go in at the same time.
Oh. And do this whole thing. Yeah. Now that was stupid because one of the employees. at the time realized what was going on and like hauled down an undercover police officer and they were arrested immediately.
Wow. Yeah. Just because she was bored. Just because she just wanted to spice up their fucking scheme.
So it was April 30th, 1986, more than a year since Elizabeth's parents had been murdered.
So on May 29th, 1986, Detective Terry Wright called Detective Gardner. and asked him if the names Elizabeth Hasem and Yen Soaring sounded familiar at all.
He was like, know these names because we have them in custody and detective gardner was like hell yeah i know those names oh my god imagine that call Oh, my God.
After a year. He must have been so excited.
Seriously. So he hopped on the first plane out to London And he was able to interview Elizabeth and Jens that weekend, but that was all the time that he was going to have with them because technically they were like... like in UK custody.
Yeah. So if he couldn't get one of them to confess, then the UK was just going to proceed with their fraud charges. against the couple, which they wouldn't have gotten that much jail time.
No. And they would have just been free to go.
They would have just been gone. But if he could get them to confess, it would be a totally different ballgame.
Oh my god, this is like the most high-stakes... interrogation it's huge holy shit so jens decided that he was ready to talk They got one recorded interview with him, I guess.
And then he said, come back the next day without the recorder and I'll tell you what you need to know.
I hate when they try to get the power. And they kind of have to give it to them because they need what they need.
Yeah, because they have to get it. So he signed solicitor waiver forms and he said, come back without the recorder.
I'll tell you everything. And he made a full confession.
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Rules and restrictions apply. He said that Elizabeth and he had planned to go on that trip.
That road trip was for real. but that on their way to DC they started talking about how much they both hated Elizabeth's parents and and he said you know what I'm gonna go out there and I'm gonna try to gain their respect and if it doesn't go well I'll kill them Why are those the only two options?
Yeah. I don't know. You either gain their respect or you murder them.
I don't know. There's no in between. No. there was a lot of drugs involved here too like elizabeth was like using oh okay It's unclear whether Jens was using, but I think we can all use our imaginations.
So he drove out there and Elizabeth, they came up with this whole plan.
She was going to go to two different movie theaters to get the tickets as an alibi in case they needed one.
She literally took notes on the different architecture of both theaters so that she'd be able to talk about it later.
Wow. She also cashed a check in Yen's name and ordered room service for two people.
So it looked like there was two people in the room.
And then the plan was that he would come back and they would go see the Rocky Horror Picture Show together and they would create a scene. at the Rocky Horror Picture Show to show that they had been there.
Wow. elizabeth joked later on she was like but everybody causes a scene at rocky horror picture show so it wasn't a very good plan Like you guys know it, right?
So much fun. Thanks so much. So cultural.
Yeah. So Yen said that once he got to the Hasem house, everything was all right at first.
Derek and Nancy invited him into their fucking home. gave him a drink, like they sat down together and obviously like maybe offered him some food.
But at one point in the conversation, it became heated.
And he said that they threatened to have him kicked out of UVA if he didn't just leave Elizabeth.
Wow. Which I'd be like, cool, I'll dip. I will leave. at that point that Yen said he got up to leave, but that when he did, Derek Hasem grabbed him and held him up against the wall, like jerked him up against the wall.
And Jens had a knife on him, which he said was for protection.
Oh, yeah. But as he got it out, he started stabbing Derek in the neck.
So come on. Once Nancy saw that Jens had a knife, she got her own and tried to use it to fight off Jens. but he got control of the knife and he was able to wrestle Nancy down and And he also started using her as a shield, like against Derek Hasem, like using Derek Hasem's wife. of years and years and years as a shield.
My God. Like, this is... It's horrific. They invited him into their home.
He's dating their child. Like they have every right to have an opinion about this.
And she lives with them. He's like an 18 year old boy.
When would you ever expect that something like this would happen to you?
And poor Nancy, like, jumps up to try to, like, defend her husband with a knife.
And he's, it's just, this is, like, too much.
It's horrific. So once he had her down, he cut her neck.
And the next thing he said he remembered was throwing away any evidence that he could.
Yeah, I always, my favorite thing in these things is they always say, and then the next thing I remember.
It's like, no, you remember. You remember every second of it.
Get the hell out of here. Yeah, you're just an asshole.
And he said so he threw away the evidence.
And while he was doing that, he realized that his hands were cut up really badly.
So he went inside to wash up and decided at that point he would use his socks to wipe up some of the blood to make sure that he didn't leave any fingerprints behind. behind shocking and he said he was going to swirl the blood around the bodies to get rid of any footprints that he had made There you go.
So satanic. So satanic. Wicked. So once he and the scene were all cleaned up, he said he wrapped himself in a bed sheet. so he also took one of their fucking bed sheets asshole turned off all the lights in the house and just drove back to be with elizabeth Yeah.
And I have no words. As he finished that story, he showed Detective Gardner his hands and pointed out the scars that he had gotten from that night.
Like, he literally had scars on his hands.
So Elizabeth made a full confession too when she found out that Jens had and the points matched up perfectly.
Yeah, that was clearly what happened. She didn't want to go through having a trial, actually.
So she said, I'll just plead guilty. Wow.
Which is like they were like, are you sure?
Because like if you plead guilty, you're going to get it.
Like we might be able to like figure out a plea deal.
And I guess she was like, no, I don't want to like plead guilty, which was interesting.
Yeah. So she pled guilty as an accessory before the fact, and she was given 245 sentences for each death. to be served consecutively, which was a huge sentence for an accessory before the fact. a huge sentence so during her confession she also said are you ready oh no probably not this it This shit is a movie.
Like, it's crazy. She told detectives that she and Jens had actually followed Detective Gardner home one day after they were being questioned. and said that they had plans to kill him.
They were going to kill the lead detective on the case. and they were both able to describe what his house looked like.
And this detective didn't realize he was being followed.
That's a little scary. Yeah, I know. I'd be like, whoa.
All right. Followed him. home one day shit so scary so yen's trial was much different Because his original hope was that he'd be tried in Germany where his father had certain privileges.
Yeah, of course, asshole. In Germany, because of the 1961 Vienna convection, Convention.
Yeah, I don't know why I just said convention like we're about to bake cookies.
Convention. Thank you. No problem. direct family members of a diplomat would receive immunity from most criminal and civil prosecutions, which I'm like, You think that because your dad is a diplomat, you can murder someone and get away with it?
Yeah, none of their kids can be evil. There's no way.
I don't know if it applies to like that, sir.
So if he were tried in Germany, Jens knew he would most likely be tried as a minor and And he was assuming he'd probably get a maximum of 10 years and would definitely Definitely get out on parole, too, before those 10 years were up.
And go murder more people. Moida. Moida.
But the UK wanted Jens extradited back to America because these murders were committed in Virginia, aka America.
Yeah. So Germany said... Virginia, also known as America.
Yeah, like America. So Jens, or excuse me, Germany asked if Jens were to be tried in America that he not face the death penalty.
Okay. And they were like, well, maybe. Well, maybe.
Maybe. I don't know. So Jens learned that he was going to be extradited back to Virginia, that he had no hopes of only serving 10 years in Germany.
Good. took back his whole confession. Of course he did the little shit.
He was like, no, I was actually under duress when I confessed.
That doesn't work, though. They made me confess.
Because Elizabeth matched right up with yours, so that doesn't work.
Oh, just wait. Like, good try. He said...
It was not me who committed these murders.
It was Elizabeth. She went and did this.
I didn't even know that she was going to do this.
And then she just came back all bloody and she said. you know, we have to figure this out.
And so she told me, this is what he said.
He said that... She told him, describe to me like what you would do if you murdered my parents, like what you think I did.
And then the parts that you get wrong, I'll say, no, try again.
And you'll just try until you get to the story that like I did.
Oh my God. This is the worst thing I've ever heard.
Like you think that anybody is going to believe that that is what happened?
That is the stupidest shit I've ever heard.
Also, he has scars all over his hands. Like he proved like, hi, here's all the scars.
Like scars on his hands. Exactly. But he said, no, it was her.
And she told me, just tell me what you think I did and we'll get to the story together. i'm truly question mark befuddled like me i'm like that guy with like all the equations surrounded yeah just like what And he said you know she's the woman I loved.
I was willing to spend 10 years in prison for her but not more than that.
Oh, no. You know, that's a whole different kind of relationship.
Exactly. It's one thing to be willing to spend 10 years in prison for someone.
11? Never. 11? We're talking marriage now.
We're done. That's a lot. I'm not ready for that commitment yet.
I just, I truly cannot. I'm... i'm befuddled i'm taken aback yeah exactly So while getting ready to go to trial, the investigator searched Elizabeth and Yen's flat in England and came back with...
A myriad, a myriad of incriminating letters and diary entries.
You don't say. Jens had written a letter to Elizabeth saying, Were I to meet your parents, I have the ultimate weapon.
Strange things are happening with me. I'm turning more and more into a Christ-like figure.
A small imitation, anyway. Oh my god, kick him so hard in the nuts.
He goes, I think. I believe I could either make them completely lose their wits, get heart attacks, or they would become lovers and in a gape kind of way of the rest of the world.
There's so much to unpack there. How does someone get a heart attack?
Where do you get one of those? Can you get them at Best Buy?
Where can you pick one up? I'm turning into a more Christ-like figure, I think.
I think. I'm pretty sure. I don't know. I'd be like, what is happening here?
I can't be sure. I just feel it. So somebody repeatedly kick this dude in the nuts.
Please. For me. She wrote back to him saying, it seems my concentration on their death is causing them problems.
My father nearly drove over a cliff at lunch.
He nearly got squashed by a tree when he got home and he keeps falling over.
And my mother, drunk, fell into the fire.
I think I shall seriously take up black magic.
We can either wait till we graduate and then leave them behind or get rid of them soon.
My mother said today that if some accident befell them, She knew I would become a worthless adventurer.
More maternal acumen. I love how she literally lays it out perfectly.
She's like, Well, we could just graduate and just leave them behind and never talk to them again.
Or we could murder them now. What do you think is the best option?
What is the more rational decision? You have just said exactly what you should do. graduate leave they'd probably be fine without you so it's like just go away right And she's like, you know what?
I feel like the best course of action here is just to brutally murder them in their own home.
I think so. Probably. I feel like that's the best way to go about it. wrote another one.
Yeah, she did. Why don't my parents just lie down and die?
I despise them so much. Would it be possible to hypnotize my parents?
Do voodoo on them? will them to death. And then actually that part that I read before is actually in this letter.
We can either wait until we graduate and leave them behind or we can get rid of them soon.
Yeah, simple solution, the first one. So Jens answered that letter saying, The fact that there have been many burglaries in the area opens up the possibility for another one with the same circumstances, only this time... dot dot dot I hate these two you're like literally saying exactly what you're going to do so much And then finally, we have a diary entry made by Elizabeth, which said,
The case is about to be solved. Perhaps fingerprints on coffee mug used by Jens in Bedford interview gave him away.
I have to leave. I have to go re-evaluate everything.
I have to leave. These two. For two people who came up with some pretty cunning and manipulative and pretty smart things, man, they're dumb.
Truly. For being able to come up with like some really, really cunning things.
They are dumb as rocks and insane. Insufferable.
Insufferable. They are insufferable. Like you want to take up black magic?
Get out of here. No. i want to i i just have to leave and like they think that they have powers like they're like no You know, I think us thinking about this is like a tree almost fell on my dad today.
That is horrific. Your father is 72 years old.
No, they are that couple that you're like, you would be around somewhere and like not choose to be.
And then you get in the car with your own significant other or your friend and be like, what the fuck was that?
We're never doing this again. We are never turning into those people.
We are never hanging out with those people again.
Why did you bring me here? Also, can we point out that this man, her father Derek, literally moved his family out of Zimbabwe before it became Zimbabwe because he was worried about his children and his wife yeah and like worked his whole life like nancy wanted to go back to virginia to give Elizabeth this beautiful life.
Like, all they wanted for her was the best, it seemed.
Wow. Yeah. So before the trial started, both Jens and Elizabeth were evaluated.
And at the time, Elizabeth was actually diagnosed. with borderline personality disorder formally.
And Jens was formally diagnosed with shared delusional disorder.
But he was deemed fit to stand trial, obviously.
So his trial began on June 1st, 1990. Wedding anniversary.
And there seemed to be a solid amount of evidence against him.
There were four different blood types found at the scene, type A and type AB, which were Derek and Nancy's blood types.
One spot of B blood, which was Elizabeth's blood type, and five different samples of type O blood, which was Yen's blood type.
Oh, okay. To be fair, it's also the most common blood type ever.
I was just going to say it's a very common blood type.
Yeah. But they also talked about the bruise on Yen's face, which he himself said came from the struggle he had with Derek Hasem and the cuts on his hands.
And finally, there were the impressions found at the scene believed to have been made by somebody wearing socks.
So this expert testified saying that Yen's footprint was a perfect match to this impression.
Later on, the judge said that that evidence regarding the sock print was not admissible because he was like, I don't even know how the fuck you figured that out.
Because he's probably like, it's a sock, bro.
He's like, they have those at Payless, actually, for you to measure your kid's feet.
Like, sure, but no. No. Probably not a great one.
And it was a good thing that he didn't make that evidence admissible because it turned out that that... expert was a tire print expert yeah not a different not a barefoot sock impression expert it's one of those things you line up a tire and a foot and you're like oh so close so close so close not the same though yeah The town of Agde in France is famous for sun, sand, sea and sex.
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So there wasn't necessarily really any physical evidence directly and undoubtedly connected to Jens.
And the problem, though, was that he didn't do himself any favors on the stance.
So while there wasn't a lot of like. I'm shocked by that.
A lot of like for real evidence. Yeah. He was kind of handing some.
He was. Which is not shocking at all, considering they are the most insufferable two people on planet Earth.
Oh yeah, the jurors literally said he came off as the most arrogant cop.
We hate him. I don't even know him. I don't know if he did it.
I just hate him. He was smiling on stand.
He was correcting. lawyers with, like, things that they had said.
Like, trying to be like, I'm smarter than you.
And he'd, like, laugh. And they'd be like, you're on... trial right now for a double murder double homicide yeah and you like you have time to wall okay wow So they were like, yeah, like, no, like he's arrogant.
And they couldn't get past the fact that he had literally confessed.
Yeah, and given a perfect confession that matched Elizabeth's.
Yeah, exactly. And Elizabeth also testified. against him and literally like she was very believable on because she's like i'm over this let's just exactly The other thing was that in the confession, he was the one who did everything and knew all of these details.
But then he took it back and said, no, Elizabeth did all of this and like tried to go with that whole story of like.
Oh, my God. she said, say what you think I did.
And they were all like, no, that didn't happen.
That truly, there can't be a person on planet earth. that hears that story and is like that's likely what happened no exactly nobody would do that no that's so bad So all in all, it took the jury four hours to find Jens.
I'm surprised it took that long. To find Jens guilty on two counts of first degree murder.
The judge sentenced him to two life sentences, and he was sent to the Buckingham Correctional Center in Virginia.
Yeah. During his time in prison, he published five books and mostly came back. kept to himself while maintaining his innocence.
And he once said, I would have committed them the way I committed the check fraud, with care and planning.
The slaughter of the Hasems appeared risky, messy, and personal.
Honey, that's not the burn that you think it is.
That's not the dunk that you think it is on anyone.
You're literally doing the, if I... I did it.
I was just going to say, you just took that from OJ.
Nobody is, nobody cares what you see if i did okay it's like that don't make that i thought you didn't do it and like So your mind is capable of murderous activity?
It doesn't make any sense. No. So in 1995, he filed an appeal and they said, fuck you.
And then flash forward... It literally says that on the record.
It's like, fuck you. And then flash forward to November of 2019...
I don't like that look in your face. Flash forward.
I don't like that look in your eyeballs.
To November of 2019. What's he doing, Ash?
Yen Soaring and Elizabeth Hasem were both released early from prison.
She's up. She's actually up. She just, she left.
Oh, She's coming back. She's coming back.
I'm not shitting you. If that was on video, I was like, I don't know.
I have to tell the rest of this to them and nobody else.
What? What? Where are they? What's going on?
They were released early after 30 years.
Why? According to the Richmond Times Dispatch, the chair of the Virginia Parole Board, Adrian L. Bennett, said, quote, The parole board has determined that releasing Yen Soaring and Elizabeth Hasem to their ICE deportation detainers is appropriate... because of their youth at the time of the offenses, their institutional adjustment, and the length of their incarceration.
No. Yeah. No. Yeah. They weren't like 16.
Like this isn't like they were like 14 and she was 20. like come on exactly so while he was in prison jens did make a few points about new evidence that was able to be tested.
There were 42 samples from the crime scene that were not linked to him in any way.
11 of those samples directly excluded not only him, but Elizabeth, too.
Okay. 24 of them couldn't be processed for DNA and seven of them didn't contain enough information for comparison.
Okay. I personally think that Elizabeth and Jens are 100% responsible for killing her parents.
I think if these murders had occurred when more testing could have been done, it would have just given us a clearer picture of who did what.
I was going to say that I think it would have locked it in if it was like you said at the time. when we had the technology to test this stuff, like fresh and like when it happened.
And collection is better now. Exactly. Even collection, not even testing.
I think it's just a matter of they happen to do it at a time.
Right. When we just didn't have all of that.
But I still think the right people went to prison.
Yeah, I do too. Personally. There's people out there that don't.
Wow. But I think the biggest part of this case that confuses me is motive.
Now, Elizabeth definitely had a lot of anger toward her parents based on everything that happened, like clearly.
And you can hear her talk about it in the different letters that she sent Jens.
She's actually gone back and forth a lot of times when it comes to her relationship with her parents.
She sometimes said that they were like the most doting and loving parents.
And other times she literally said it was that they loved her too much.
Which at first I was like, like how can somebody love somebody too much?
And then I kind of got into like cryptic thinking with that.
And then I was reading more about this case.
And it turns out during a lot of interviews with police, they asked about her specific relationship with her mother, Nancy.
And at one point or another, Elizabeth told Detective Gardner that her mother had been sexually abusive towards her.
Oh boy. She said specifically that Nancy would, quote, come into her bed naked very often and indulge in some very affectionate hugging and kissing.
Eek. Now, she later took that statement back and said all she meant was that her mother was aggressively affectionate but not that she had sexually abused her.
Oh boy. So when she took the stand for her official testimony, she said Nancy was not sexually abusive and that she just loved her too much.
She said she loved me like suffocating too much.
It was like her fault. Okay. Like to a fault, I mean.
Yeah. But because she has so many different versions of the story regarding the relationship with her mother.
People who look into this case, you kind of just have to make your own conclusion based on the evidence.
It is however worth noting that during their search of the home after the murders, Investigators did find five photos tucked away in Nancy's art studio.
The photos were of Elizabeth when she was younger and she was naked in all of them. her genitalia was covered and it was... seemingly like for art purposes.
And those who knew Nancy said they must have been for her paintings because she had She literally did do paintings of people in the nude.
They actually found one while they were going through the studio.
But Elizabeth was like a younger girl in these photos and it was just a little bizarre.
That's unsavory. It's unsavory for sure.
For sure. Like that's not something you can just be like, oh yeah, that's what parents do. like no no it's no very very strange that's really all there is to that because Elizabeth has gone back and forth so many times which if she was assaulted or abused by her mother it makes sense clear motive Yes.
Clear motive. And it makes sense. Like she's going back and forth because I'm sure a part of her feels guilty for killing her mother if she did.
Oh, boy. Oh, that adds a whole different layer to this.
And she was dying. You can't really make a call.
Well, you can't. She was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder and a lot of times, not every time, but a lot of times people with borderline personality disorder have gone through some kind of sexual assault in their childhood.
And obviously, again, Not everybody, but it's like a blanket statement.
It's a big part of it. Yeah. for sure so we just don't know wow that's that changes a little bit i mean obviously it doesn't It doesn't change the fact that they were murdered.
Yeah, and you can't really know. Like all you can do is all we have is Elizabeth.
And if that's what she went through, then dear God.
Exactly. That's horrific. But I guess it does give you a bigger piece of the picture of the motive here.
Of why she was so angry. If that is the case.
Right. But again, it's like the two people... who this is being said against are not here to defend themselves or to present any kind of evidence to the contrary.
Right. So that's tough. It is. I have no opinion on that.
I'm not going to sit here and pretend I do.
No, it's just it's not fair to either party.
Yeah, it's bizarre. Those photos are bizarre.
And it's a fact. And it's facts. And it's worth noting, which I'm glad you did, because it's you don't want to like hold stuff back.
No, you know, of course not. No, that's wild.
So to end this story, in January of last year, January of 2020, Elizabeth was deported to Canada, and Jens was deported to Germany, and they are both prohibited from ever entering the U.S. again.
Wow. And that is the story of the murders of Derek and Nancy Hasem.
Guys. That was a wild ride. A wild ride. ride and again, the story, the story, the book that I used for a lot of the research here. is Beyond Reason, the true story of a shocking double murder, a brilliant, beautiful Virginia socialite, and a deadly psychotic obsession, written by... ken and glade wow yes i mean regardless of what went down those letters between the two of them and the diary entries and shit Still insufferable.
You guys are talking about murdering them.
Yeah. And then they got murdered. And then he got a bruise on his face at the funeral.
That's a very weird coincidence. Yeah. He had a bruise on his face.
He said he was thrown against a wall. That checks out.
Yeah. He had cuts all over his hand, that checks out.
She has these tickets from these movies.
It all adds up to them. Everything. It's just now it's just become sticky with a matter of like motive and all that.
Exactly. And the fact that. she pled guilty anyway.
Yeah. And she was like, no, I don't want anything.
Yeah, like, I just want to... Send me to jail.
Send me to prison. Wow. Like that's very telling.
That's truly outrageous. Yeah. It's really just like sad case all around.
I feel like it's like a new part, maybe.
I knew the names in this case, but I had no idea the details.
Yeah, that's exactly how I feel. Because when I saw the book, I was like, obviously, we were joking.
Like, I was like, oh, that drew me in. Yeah.
And then I was reading a description and I was like, Elizabeth Hasem.
I was like, why does that name sound familiar?
Very, yeah, definitely. wild that was crazy wild thank you for bestowing that Horrible.
You're welcome. Thank you, Rihanna, for leaving.
You're welcome. I just didn't know what to do.
I had to go. I had to go. I did not see that coming.
I wish that that had been on. And I was like, and they got out of prison.
You were like, and I'm out of this recording studio.
I'm leaving. I had no idea that was coming.
Usually I didn't tell you, but when I saw it and I was like, I didn't tell you.
I could see that twinkle in your eye like I'm gonna fuck you up in a second.
Because I was telling her little bits about this case in between the two recordings, but I left big, huge parts out.
Yeah, she did. I wanted like real raw reaction.
You got it. Boom. You got it. Yeah, crazy. wow well guys as always thank you so much for listening and Happy holidays.
Yeah, exactly. Hope you enjoy yourselves.
Is this the last one before the holidays?
Before the holidays, yeah. All right, so perfect.
I just wanted to say I hope you all have a merry and bright holiday with your family and eat whatever you want.
It's gonna be so yummy. It is, it's gonna be wonderful. open all your presents, and then guess what?
This is my final message. If you have not done this, buy yourself a Christmas present.
Yeah. I buy myself a Christmas present every year.
My great grandma used to buy herself a Christmas present every year and I think everybody should do it.
Yeah, but even just something small. Yeah, it doesn't have to be huge.
Of course not. That makes you happy. I got myself a pair of Adidas Swiftruns.
Oh, there you go. Fancy. Yay. Love that.
I got a candle from Anita's Apothecary on Etsy.
And I think you guys should also. get yourselves one of those because they are the most beautiful that's like a tuesday for you yeah anita's i got yourself something get it else I love Anita's Apothecary.
Elena's house is Anita's Apothecary. Elena's Apothecary.
I love her with all my heart and soul. She makes the most beautiful candles.
She's an artiste. And she's wonderful. And she ships them so fast.
Oh, yeah. I think she teleports them to your home.
She's just a very like, she's a very like, she puts things together very carefully.
And it's just like, you can tell she gives a shit.
She does. And it's just like, yeah. I love her.
So go take a look at her on Etsy. Don't buy them all because I want them.
Don't buy them all. All right. Well, we hope you keep listening.
We hope you keep it weird. Dude, but not so weird that any of this happens or pertains to your life because yikes.
Literally none of it. Yikesies. Bye. Bye.
Thank you. If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.
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