You're listening to the Morning Shakeout Podcast. Just keep moving forward. Every single runner knows what that means.
My life has a purpose, and maybe it's not what I thought it was going to be, but...
There were times when I didn't think I would be able to come back.
There's a lot of people that have different gifts, and they don't use it.
I think if we all use our gifts, we could do something really special, not for ourselves, but for our family.
If we're really good, we could do something for our community, wherever we live.
and we are back with the first ama ask mario anything episode of 2025 on the other side of the mic for this one as usual serving me up questions my right hand man chris douglas welcome back to the morning shakeout podcast yeah always happy to be here and i must say uh Oh my God, we've got so many questions, dude.
I mean, we're recording this two days after I solicited them, and I mean, 26 came in or something like that total.
It's some crazy amount.
We're not gonna get to all of them today, but all of them that we do get to, I will mail a Morning Shakeout sticker, so those will be in the mail somewhat soon.
Yeah, and I think because we have just so many questions and we wanna try to get to as many of them as possible, before we jump into questions, should we just shout out to sponsors real quick and just get right down to business here?
Yeah, let's shout them out.
Tracksmith, New Balance, Precision Fuel and Hydration, and Final Surge.
These are brands that I have been partnered with for many years now.
And I mean, quite frankly, they're the reason that I'm able to do this.
The Morning Shakeout email newsletter and this podcast, their support is invaluable.
These are all products and services that I use myself.
I use Final Surge to run my coaching business.
I run in New Balance shoes.
I wear Tracksmith apparel, and I fuel myself with Precision Fuel and Hydration, and have been for several years.
So I really value these brands, the relationships that I have with them.
And they're all best -in -class products.
I wouldn't recommend them if I didn't use them myself.
So go to themorningshakeout .com slash partners.
You can learn a little bit more about each brand, some of the products that they offer.
And almost all of them have some sort of URL or discount code that you can check out if If you want to try some stuff for yourself.
So I recommend doing that.
Go to themorningshakeout .com slash partners.
But big thank you to Tracksmith, New Balance, Precision Fuel and Hydration.
And Final Surge for their continued support of my work.
I love it. I love it.
All right. So you just want to jump right into these?
Let's do it. Right into the deep end.
Okay. Well, the first question is for me.
Well, I guess I suppose you're allowed to do that as the person who cut these down and is serving them up to me.
So go for it. I'm pulling rank.
Frank. And my first question is like, Hey, I know Boston holds a special place in your heart.
You were just there.
So why don't you, you know, I'd love to hear from you kind of like, well, how was that?
How was Boston marathon weekend for you this year?
I mean, continues to be my favorite weekend of the year, year in and year out.
It was, I mean, God going all the way back to college.
So for those who don't know, I was born and raised in Massachusetts, spent most of my life there still, even though I've been in California for 15 years now, the Boston marathon Marathon was a part of my life before I was even interested in running because it's Patriots Day in Massachusetts, better known as Marathon Monday.
You get the day off from school.
Red Sox versus Yankees every year.
I don't know if that's even happening anymore.
But, I mean, you get the day off from school.
So, I always loved it for that reason.
And my mom, who is not a runner or running fan at all, always watched the Boston Marathon. She knew all of the main characters.
And this is back in, like, the 1990s, 2000s.
And so, you know, Moses Tenuye, Catherine Ureba, you know, I mean, she even knew, like, Bill Rogers, Joan Benoit Samuelson from before that because she had paid attention to it.
But it was the only running thing that she paid attention to every year and really captured my interest as well as the second marathon that I ever ran in 2008.
And with the exception of 2013, which was the year that I got married, which happened to fall on the Saturday of Boston Marathon weekend.
And I mean, to, to be completely transparent, my wife gave me the ouch. He's like, are you sure you want to get married that weekend?
And that's a special day for me.
And I said, yes, uh, I definitely want to get married on that day.
It's okay. If we missed the Boston marathon this year, that ended up being quite a notable year because it was the year of the bombings.
And it's the only year that I've not been at the Boston marathon since probably 2000, 2001.
Wow. Yeah. So 20 some odd years.
Anyway, I've run it six times.
I always have athletes who are competing in the Boston Marathon. It's become just a big industry weekend as well.
A lot of brands are there, so it's a good opportunity to catch up with folks in the running industry.
And I was there from—I got into town Thursday, spent all the time with my dad and my brother and my sister, went into the city Friday night, was there until I left on Monday night, and it was just like equal parts energy, excitement, and at the end of it, exhaustion.
i was pretty wiped by the time that i got home um but it was an awesome weekend had a great great time saw a lot of um a lot of good friends a lot of readers a lot of um listeners to this podcast we had a relay team at the new balance indoor marathon relay we finished six by the way we were in 240 it was entirely made up of morning shakeout readers and listeners there were other teams that had you know ringers ringers i mean they had olympians i mean you know city has mack I had Heather McClain believe in the run, had Kim Conley.
Some of these teams were like packed full of influencers.
I just had supporters of my work.
And that really meant a lot to me.
We had a great time.
It was awesome to meet those folks, many of whom I met for the first time.
And, yeah, the weekend itself was just awesome.
If it's not awesome, then what are you even doing?
Yeah, for sure. I told you next year I'm tagging along just for the morning shakeout.
I mean, and we did that at Tracksmith for, I don't even know, the umpteenth year.
And there were ShakeOut runs all over Boston on Marathon Weekend, and the morning ShakeOut had the original back in 2017.
I definitely did not invent the ShakeOut run, but there weren't any other brands partnering with people to lead runs on Saturday of Boston Marathon Weekend, and we definitely kicked that off back in 2017.
and now it's like, you know, a dozen shakeout runs on Friday, two dozen on Saturday and like another 10 on Sunday.
I mean, you could, you know, shake out your way through the weekend if you, if you really wanted to.
Hey, well, Kareem didn't invent the sky hook, but he certainly put it on the map.
So, all right. So first question from listeners from Thomas, he says he loved and totally didn't expect your conversation with Sebastian Younger recently prompted him to pick up his latest book while he was in Boston for the marathon. So thanks a lot for that you navigated that conversation excellently he says and his question is for a future interview who is your dream guest who is not from the running world I think I know the answer here or a answer it's an interesting question because everyone that I've had on the podcast has some tie to running so part of what made that podcast with Sebastian Younger
unique is not many people knew that he was a really good runner back in his day because he's never talked about it.
And he's, I mean, known for his work, The Perfect Storm, Tribe, War, In My Time of Dying.
I mean, you know, number one New York Times best selling author.
And I like that people were surprised to learn that he was such a dedicated runner, a really good runner.
Definitely had some chops.
I mean, I had people that I know text me and say, he speaks the language.
You could tell that this is a big part of his life.
And he talked Talked about how formative it was for him.
And I really enjoy those kind of conversations.
So I don't know that I'd have anyone on the show who had zero connection to running at all.
But if I had to pick, let's just say, a non -obvious choice that is someone who isn't well -known within running circles, but running is a core part of their identity, it would be Flea of the Red Hot Chili Peppers.
And I think some people know that he runs a bit, and it's a big part of what keeps him grounded and stable.
And he loves the trails.
uh i think he lives in or around la and can be found romping around the santa monica mountains from time to time but i know it's a big part of his life and it'd be i mean the opportunity of a lifetime to just sit down with him and talk running at some point yeah and you know a little behind the scenes you know peek behind the curtains like we were we actually tried to uh i tried to reach out to his agent figure out who that person was and to see we could can try to connect for for an interview so if anyone's listening and has a connection hook us up please chris at the morning shakeout .com um
and we can try to make that happen that'd be amazing um but you know in in addition to that i mean there's there's so many people um who run and that's a cool thing about running i mean sebastian younger was a competitive runner super fast marathoner and i think there are a lot of people running is a big part of their life and they may have never run a race ever um this one's a little more well -known but ben gibbard death cab for cutie i mean big ultra trail runner does do some ultras pretty good i think um and he's been on podcasts and has talked about that so that one wouldn't be as much of a surprise
but i think if i think if flea popped up on the morning shakeout podcast people would be like what and i mean that That would, yeah, that'd be amazing.
That would be amazing.
That'd be great. All right.
Our next question comes from Elizabeth.
There has been a lot of scientifically anecdotally backed changes in thinking around training theory in the past five to 10 years or so, including around super shoes and nutrition.
So my questions are, by the way, everyone, this is a theme, people asking multiple questions.
What is something that you'd fully changed your mind about over the past five years and why?
And on the flip side, what is something that you feel is important to note that you have have not changed your mind about?
Okay. Before I answer those two questions specifically, I am going to bring up a point that I know I talked about some number of episodes ago on the podcast. It may have been an AMA episode, but there's a quote that I love.
Alex Hutchinson did not come up with it, but he referenced it in one of his articles and I'll leave it at that.
but it said the wheel keeps getting reinvented, but it's still a wheel.
And that's how I feel about training.
There's nothing new in training right now.
There's things that are coming back again that are being implemented differently that have some more data behind it than maybe they did, you know, 10, 15, 20 or more years ago, but there's nothing completely novel in training.
And, and I think any good coach worth their salt would tell you the same thing.
So back to that quote, it's like, you know, the wheel keeps getting reinvented, but at the end of the day, it's still a wheel.
And I believe that to be true.
I do think that advances in technology and nutrition especially and just more research in general about the big blocks of recovery nutrition being a big part of that technology being a small part of that sleep being a huge part of that have really allowed people to train harder because they can recover faster and stack more training and if you can stack more training consistently for a long period of time you are are going to become a better runner so to answer the first part of that question something that i have changed my mind on is that what she asked okay um so to answer the first part of that two
part question something that i have changed my mind on is in regard to nutrition i myself as an athlete, used to do a lot of fasted long runs, thinking that would improve my ability to burn fuel efficiently.
And surprise, surprise, those runs completely wrecked me and took me a really long time to recover from.
In the past, I didn't have very detailed conversations about nutrition nutrition with my athletes, either day to day or what we're doing to fuel in workouts and races.
And now that's a part of the conversation from the get -go because I don't believe you need to fuel yourself up for every run.
If you're going out for an easy 30 minute run, 60 minute run, you're doing it first thing in the morning, drink some water, go to the bathroom and go, you're going to be completely fine.
And you're going to recover well from that.
But if you're going to be doing an intense session.
If you're going to the track, if you're doing a tempo run, yeah, you need to pay attention to what you're putting in your body before you go out.
We did a great episode a couple of years back with Starla Garcia. She talked about how you can do that effectively if you're tight for time and you run first thing in the morning.
She's like, look, if you can't eat a small breakfast before you go out and do a workout, sip on a sports drink with carbohydrate in it.
Like that's going to get into your system and it's going to help you to have a a better workout.
And I think what the research is starting to show and what I've seen anecdotally with myself and my athletes, if you fuel well during those intense and big sessions, you come out of them so much better because you're not finishing completely on E and then need a ton more time to recover.
The shoes make a difference with that as well, but I think nutrition makes a much bigger difference than people have wanted to admit in the past. And that's something that definitely changed my mind on the second part of that question what i haven't changed my mind on are the fundamentals gotta train consistently i think you gotta run as much volume as you can handle for yourself like you know physically yes but also how it's fitting into the rest of your life is it supporting the other things that you have going on or is it taken away from those But generally trying to keep fairly high training
volume for a good chunk of the year.
I've always believed that it's easier to stay in shape than it is to get in shape.
So I think making sure that you're being smart about taking time off, especially after big races like a marathon, but also not letting yourself go too far away from training that you've got to rebuild things from scratch two months later because you've just been super lazy.
So it's really living the lifestyle of running.
I've not changed my mind on that.
There are no magic workouts.
To go back to kind of the original premise of this question, double threshold is all the rage these days.
A few years ago, it was critical velocity.
We hear a lot about VO2 max, zone 2 training.
All these things are important, and they all can work.
But the way that they're going to work for people is going to be different depending on who they are, where they are in their athletic journey, their training background in history, strengths and weaknesses, all like focus events that they're focusing on, like all of these things.
But it comes down to like the core fundamentals are, you know, train consistently put in decent volume year round, train all the systems at some point, you know, make sure that you're running, you know, really easy, kind of easy, steadily, moderate, kind of hard, hard, very hard in different ratios, you know, throughout the year.
Yeah, as our friend Steve Magnus would say, sometimes go see God, right?
Yeah, sometimes go see God.
Not all, you know, not all that often.
But I mean, in the history of endurance sports, like there hasn't been much movement as far as those things go.
There's definitely been some, you know, advancements and just more knowledge that we've gotten in recent years that help us have a better understanding of these things.
But the fundamentals really have not changed.
Yeah. I mean, and that's kind of the 80%.
It's like, can you run consistently?
are you doing some hills you're doing everything else so important are you training like an athlete and I believe you know even if running is your thing think of yourself as an athlete who runs which means yes you've got to run quite a bit you should run easy you should sprint you should do strength work pay attention to your mobility do some plyometrics like you know really try to be a well -rounded athlete that's going to help you whether you're training for a mile an ultra marathon and it's going to help you to do it for a really long time it's going to give you durability, you know, so you
can live this lifestyle, you know, continually, and hopefully be enjoying it well into old age.
Amen. All right. Our next question comes from Adam.
I know you've talked some about the availability of all sorts of data and how easy it is to access that data, even for a new slash casual runner.
Can you talk about how your coaching has or hasn't changed over the years because of that?
Do you find that you need to talk people out of their heads because they're worried about the pages and pages of data their watch is showing them?
The short answer to of that last question is, yes, I have to do quite a bit of that this day in age because we do have so much data available to us.
I mean, your watch alone can give you pace, give you distance, give you time, give you power, give you cadence.
Stride length. Stride length, vertical oscillation, calculating your VO2 max.
There's going to be like lactate stuff in there.
I mean, and some of it is useful.
A lot of it isn't. And I think I say this all all time.
We are not programmable robots.
That said, I'm not anti -data at all.
Data is important. It allows us to track trends over time.
It gives us very objective measures of things like, you know, fitness speed, you know, so on and so forth, but it's so easy to get overwhelmed by it these days and try to optimize every little thing.
I say pick four pieces of data that are going to be key for you and monitor those things over time.
Look at them after your workout.
Use them as point of of references during, you know, your runs and workouts.
And that can be, you know, anything from power, heart rate, perceived effort, pace.
You know, you can, you can use any number of metrics, but pick like four that are going to be useful to you and track those things over time.
And don't worry too much about a lot of the stuff that really just, you know, doesn't matter all that much. So what would your four be?
Were there ones you just mentioned?
I mean, for my marathoners, because it does differ for ultra athletes who are doing more of their stuff on the trail, it's, you know, total time.
So I can measure training volume.
And with that distance, pace, heart rate, perceived effort.
That's it. Makes sense.
Um, and, and really if I, if I put those in order of importance, I mean, I do think like, you know, just time, total duration of, you know, the workout is important so that we can easily like, you know, quantify load and that sort of thing.
Perceived effort is huge for me when I'm looking at my athletes data, I look at their comments first. I want, I want to see what they said about the workout before I look at the splits or the heart rate or any of, any of that stuff.
Because it honestly tells me more about just like where they were going into during and coming out of a key session or a race.
And to go back to one part of this question, I mean, it's great because when I started coaching 20 years ago, I mean, GPS watches were in their infancy.
Most people did not have one.
So we couldn't get that real -time information.
You had to go to a track.
back to go to a measured course.
As a coach, you had to ask more questions.
And I think this is something that ails a lot of coaches today with all this data.
They're like, well, I don't have to ask any questions.
Yes, you do. You're not just, again, you're not just programming a robot, you're coaching a human being.
See how they felt about it.
Get some context around how they slept the night before.
If they have a lot of stress going on in their life, if they were crunched for time that morning, all that stuff matters.
I think when you're looking at training, you're you're analyzing it and you're trying to plan ahead.
But I mean, 20 years ago, we didn't have all of this data.
There weren't platforms, software that this stuff just uploaded automatically to.
It was much more manual.
So the advancements that have been made there are great because I have an athlete who can finish a run and the data hits final surge before they even and have a chance to, you know, leave me, you know, leave me feedback.
It's right there. And I can easily look back at what they did last week, last month, last year, and kind of compare those things.
That's great. Like that's very helpful for me as a coach, as I'm thinking about what it is they're doing and kind of where, you know, we want to go.
But I do think it's easy to just kind of get, get stuck in the weeds with a lot of this stuff.
So just identify those kind kind of four things that for you are going to be you know really important to track and monitor over time and I think that's really the key is doing this over time so you can really see you know trends you can see if things are improving if they're staying stable if you're progressing you know really well if you've regressed you know at all and that's and that's really what's that's really what's important.
Yeah for sure so here's another question sort of related to this this comes from Dave so he says Mario I don't get coached from so i apologize okay apologies taken uh i do use another well -known online coach yesterday i was working with ai at work i took a detour while in it and decided to ask the ai bot to develop a training program for my next race it was amazingly similar to my coach's program and others i've seen how do you feel about the use of ai in coaching and training meaning?
This is a good question.
And one that I am still trying to figure out my, my answer for, because AI is still rapidly developing and it is already impacting coaching.
It's going to continue to, um, for, I mean, you know, probably for the rest of our lives to some degree, I don't think AI can replace a coach, you know, coaching and programming are two very different things.
Um, Um, and I think AI can probably with enough data and context, probably write a very good program, but I think you need a coach to help the athlete implement that program and kind of guide them along.
Like I've always looked at a training plan as a, you know, as a roadmap.
And if you're going to follow a roadmap, it helps have an experienced copilot, you know, who can tell you what to look out for when to turn, when to slow down, when to speed up all of those sorts of things.
things that said good training is not that complicated and if you look at a lot of good programs they're more similar than they are different whether or not ai was involved i mean if you took the top 10 marathon coaches in the world and you looked at the training that they're writing for their athletes there's going to be more similarities and differences they're all running high volume they're all doing specific work at you know at one point i mean some of of them might do Ks versus some of them might do, you know, 1200.
Some of them might do miles.
Some of them might do two Ks.
Some of them might do, you know, four mile reps.
Some might do five mile reps.
I mean, that's, you know, those, those details are not super important, but the, the structure of it, the things that are being prioritized again, like there's going to be more overlap than there are differences.
And I feel like that's something that, you know, AI, especially as you continue to train it is only going to get better and better at and could be a helpful tool for coaches when they are putting together the actual program for the athletes um but that's only one aspect of it right and as we just talked about you know coaching is i mean at its core relationship right and so i mean i don't know if you want a relationship with an ai but you You might be, you know, you might be okay.
Just someone to tell me what to do and I'll do it.
I don't really want anything beyond that.
But, you know, for, for coaching, I think a coach can, and as this stuff continues to improve, should probably leverage AI to do, you know, data analysis to, you know, maybe evaluate the program that they've written and see how it compares to maybe previous programs that, you know, that they've done.
But I don't believe it's going to fully replace coaching, but I do think it is going to hollow out the middle.
I mean, I think AI is going to do a really good job of delivering training plans and maybe eventually those will become a little bit more dynamic.
Um, but there's always going to be a place for very good coaching.
And I do think very good coaches in 2025 are going to leverage AI in different ways so that they can do their job better.
For sure. For sure.
Yeah. When I read this, when I saw this question initially, what I thought it was like, well, this doesn't seem too different from like competitor magazine back in the day, just being like 12 week plan for your best half marathon, right?
And it's just a cookie cutter plan.
It all kind of makes sense.
You know, maybe there isn't a lot of nuance there that you would get from a coach. Um, but yeah, brave new world out there.
Brave new world indeed.
All right. Our next question is a little bit of a heavy one.
This is from Tilo. So Hey, Hey Mario, I've been a reader for around four years now and thoroughly enjoy the content you produce.
I agree with him. I am a male runner and 28 years old.
My fastest mile ever ran in high school was 459.
And I joked with my dad at the time that I would someday break his personal best of 444.
Two years later, he lost his battle with brain cancer.
Super sorry to hear that.
Since then, I have dreamed about pursuing his mile time, but did not give it serious effort.
I currently do more long distance training, but don't put many speed workouts into my regimen.
Currently, my fastest mile is around under seven minutes.
Given my current age, is it feasible and healthy to pursue this goal?
If so, So besides consistency, the right nutrition, and incorporating good strength training, what else should be considered while pursuing this goal?
Do you say Tilo's 29 years old?
He's 28. 28. So I would assume if you were in 459 in high school, that was about 10 years ago.
And you're running sevens now?
28 is really, really young.
And I do not know anything else about Tilo's training other than what they shared here.
here but given Tilo's age and what they've shared with us absolutely it's going to take some time and you need to tune your training appropriately so that eventually you can handle the specific work necessary to run you know 445 in the mile and to be fair I mean that is a big jump from the 459 that they ran 10 years ago, but it's not impossible.
I mean, to me, that is what our mutual friend Brad Stolberg calls an appropriately challenging goal.
Not a gimme by any stretch, but also not unfeasible either.
Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, I did one of these programs for you back, I think maybe during COVID or something for the the golden gate tri club you coach um there was like a mile program and it was pretty specific training and my mile time certainly got faster while i leaned into it um so yeah seems totally doable it's just a matter of you know making it the main thing i do training for it correctly that mile program every year with golden gate tri club we have now for at least the last seven for eight years and there are some mile specific workouts but not all that specific really we're
just working on improving our overall fitness and touching on mile speed every so often so we know kind of what that feels like and everyone who has been consistent with that program for the eight weeks that we run it has improved yeah and that's real i mean and that's and that's really the important thing, again, back to what we were talking about earlier, consistency is key and then you do have to do some specific work relative to that goal.
And I think it's always helpful too to know where you are.
It seems like Tilo knows where they are, where they want to go, 445.
And then I think this is where good coaching comes into understanding what they need to do to close that gap and roughly how long it's going to take.
And that I don't have enough information to to really have an answer to, but it's definitely, definitely possible.
I love it. I love it.
All right. Next question comes from Miguel.
Hi, Mario. Thank you for writing and for being such an inspiration.
I recently started my own blog inspired by you.
Look at you. I have a question.
I ran a marathon this past Sunday, April 27th, but the weather wasn't ideal, 22 degrees Celsius and very humid.
For us Americans, that's about low 70s.
And I also wasn't having a great day physically, so I ended up running Running around 20 seconds per kilometer slower than I had expected.
Fortunately, my legs are already recovering well.
I'm considering running another race on June 8th, which you've heard this before.
Depending on how my recovery progresses over the next week, what are your thoughts on this and what kind of approach would you recommend for the next five weeks?
I know it's a tough question without knowing all the details, but I would love to hear your general thinking as a coach. I'm a big buyer of your work and want to adopt it in my own coaching and running.
Thank you so much. Okay, so this question came in late April.
They want to run a race in early June.
I think they said five -ish weeks.
So we know through research that when the temperature is above 65 degrees Fahrenheit, which it certainly was here, and the humidity is high, performance is going to suffer.
And with every degree above 65 degrees, performance is going to be affected even more.
I don't have the data right in front of me, but it's easy enough to find online.
So we know that as a fact.
Those are less than ideal conditions to race a marathon. And unless you live in a place where those are typical conditions, you're most likely not acclimated this time of year.
Sounds like this person, because of the conditions, was forced to slow down quite a bit.
They still finished, which is commendable, congratulations, no small feat, especially on a tough day like that.
But because they had to slow down so much, they weren't able to push as hard as they wanted to and had planned, they're probably not going to be as beat up coming out of it.
I think psychologically, that's a bigger mess to sort of clean up, but physically, you should bounce back pretty well if you had a good training block and you went in with a high level of fitness.
So it's not an apples to apples comparison as if you had come out of this marathon on an ideal day and were riding the red line for 42K and hit your PR or just missed it.
In that case, like physically, you're going to be pretty wrecked and definitely need to respect that and not rush back into anything.
Five weeks, I mean, that's a lot of time.
I wouldn't jump into another marathon in five weeks necessarily, but I had some verge of this conversation with a couple of my Boston athletes already.
I think in that timeframe, because you have a high level fitness from the marathon training, you know, make sure, you know, for, for your needs that you recover well, you know, after the race.
But in early June, focusing on something shorter, 5K, 10K, or even up to a half, you've got this really solid base from all the marathon work that you've done.
And in those five weeks, you don't have to, you know, jump back up to full volume.
Shouldn't be doing the amount that you were doing leading into the marathon, but you can do some little workouts that are going to help you turn your legs over a little bit bit faster and tap into, you know, some of those faster speeds that you don't touch all that often during marathon training and just gives you this, you know, carrot that's dangling in front of you and something to be, you know, excited about, um, you know, in a reasonable amount of time after the marathon. Yeah, that's great.
That's great. All right.
Our next question comes from Katie.
She says, my last two marathon builds have been great on paper, but then yielded less impressive results while been there.
I know that can be very normal.
And in fact, I am incredibly proud of how I handled the last one.
I pushed hard the whole way and gave everything I had, despite knowing that my time goal was gone pretty early on.
Anyway, my question is sometimes in the build, I feel very strong about a month and a half out and then feeling increasingly tired and workouts feel harder.
Still hitting my paces though.
And they never feel easier.
Should I adjust my training somehow or is this completely normal?
Thanks so much. Love the podcast and newsletter.
They are so informative.
so only having that much information I can't paint a very full picture but to me it sounds like you might benefit from doing a shorter marathon build um oftentimes the mistake I see a lot of people making is they're just training for too damn long they're doing 16 20 24 week build for a marathon and by the time they get to four to six weeks out uh oftentimes mentally they're just sort of fried and physically that can you know have have its manifestations as well usually just kind of feeling flat and tired and i mean runners will you know they gotta hit their paces so it's like you know that doesn't
really tell us so much but the fact that they're feeling kind of fried by that point and heavy and sort of lethargic tells me that they maybe they've been training for a little bit too long so to shorten that cycle if you're an experienced runner it it sounds like this person maybe since they've had a couple of marathon builds now.
And if you're someone who is again, just kind of training year round again, taking, taking breaks when, you know, appropriate, but not for, for too long, you might not need much more than 10, 12 weeks.
Um, and so you can get in, you know, that really good work for eight to 10 weeks and then two week taper and race days there versus, you know, really trying to stay on it for 16, 20, 24 weeks and and just wishing the race happened four to six weeks out.
So to me, that would probably be something to explore that may be beneficial.
Yeah, and maybe the fact that it's getting harder.
Yeah, it sounds like maybe just even a little bit of overtraining if you're just going too hard and just becoming more of a slog.
Yeah, and again, not knowing much about this person's training, but even if you are doing a 12 -week build type of thing, um, building down weeks in there too.
So you have an opportunity to absorb some of those bigger weeks of training and just sort of reset before moving into that next little like mini build within the, within the block.
I mean, that's something that I found is helpful for people too.
Yeah. Yeah. All right.
Our next question is, uh, anonymous because someone didn't give us their name, but I think Mario, you might've submitted your own question here.
So what is is your promise i did not what is your go -to must -have song for a running playlist i definitely did not think this question because i don't listen to music when i when i run and the only time that i ever have is when i've been on a treadmill and and as of this conversation i haven't been on a treadmill in several years so um no music on a running playlist because i don't listen to music when i'm out running okay how about if you are thinking about running what would be your go -to song ah like maybe a song where you're heading toward to a race so i do and i've written about this in the newsletter
before i will have a song in my head oftentimes when i'm running usually when i'm trying to get into a rhythm and for me um it's it's it's just instrumental so hermanos gutierrez is one of my favorite bands they don't have any any lyrics to their music it's just um two brothers on their guitars and there's you know they have songs that are you know rhythmically like pretty slow and drawn out and some that have like a little bit of faster tempo and some where it sort of changes throughout and i mean this sounds totally insane but i i will have that in my head oftentimes through a workout and i
will kind of match my rhythm to you know their rhythm and it's in my head and it's very it's it's a very very meditative sort of thing for me.
Like I'm, I'm in a zone and I'm just kind of locked on that and I'm very, very present.
And I'm actually not like, I don't have anything actually in my ears, but I can kind of like just hear it in my own head.
And if I, if I have any like music going through my head during a run, that's, that's how it works.
But I've never run with like headphones or anything like that.
I love it. I love it.
Yeah. I've, uh, when I used to do a lot of outdoor or cycling um i would always have like a song stuck in my head and i could tell what zone i was in if i could sing it out loud and for me for years it was tony braxton's unbreak my heart if i could sing that while riding i knew i was in zone two um one thing i'll add to that i mean when i am going to a race i will listen to music like on the drive over to a racer before i start warming up not while i'm actually running itself and i mean that playlist has been in place for like like, probably 25 years at this point, and I've added and taken some
things away from it, but it's kind of all over the map.
I mean, I do have a lot of, like, Rage Against the Machine on there, a lot of Wu -Tang Clan, definitely some M &Ms. I mean, I'm giving my age away right now, but, I mean, I have a lot of that on my pre -race playlist, but I don't listen to any of it while I'm actually running.
I love it, I love it.
All right, our next question comes from Justin.
in how long after i'm sorry how long after the flu should people get back to running hard ever race while sick mario to answer the second part of that question i've i've definitely raced while not a hundred percent and in in some cases it wasn't that big of a deal as you know minor or a little cold.
I was just like fighting a little something and I was fine, but I've never, I've never raced while knowingly very sick.
Um, that's something I'm proud that I've never forced.
I mean, the flu is serious business, man.
Um, that's not anything to mess around with and it's going to hit people differently.
This was a really bad flu season.
I've said this to a bunch of my, I had a bunch of athletes who got the flu this past one and some of them got whacked pretty I was whacked.
I was the sickest I've ever been as an adult.
And in those cases, I mean, my advice is just rest, like just rest. Take it easy.
Let's check in every day, see how you're feeling.
I think this is where it's important.
Check your heart rate every morning, look at your HRV, look at the trends of those sort of things if you need an objective measure, but wait until you're feeling better before you start moving again.
And when you start moving again, ease into it.
Like go for a walk before you run type of thing.
Just don't be hardheaded about it.
I mean, this is what drives me nuts about runners.
Sometimes I rant a little bit here.
It's like, I mean, runners, we talked, Sebastian Younger and I talked a little bit about this.
When you're running, especially if you're really fit, you think you're invincible, right?
And if you get hit with the flu, it's going to kill your momentum.
I mean, you try to push through that.
You're only going to dig the hole quite a bit deeper.
And then you've got bigger problems that you need to solve.
I mean, the thing to do in that situation is accept it and rest. That's what your body needs.
And let it rest as long as it needs until you're in a place where you can think about resuming training.
And that might be a few days.
That might be a few weeks.
And if you jump back too quickly from something like the flu, again, like, you can relapse and dig that hole deeper.
And then, again, you have, like, you have bigger problems. That's easily avoidable.
But runners, we want to push through things because we think we're tough.
we want to jump back into things too quickly I mean some of like some some injuries that that runners get you know they they like bust their ankle or something right and and they're like three days later I'm back I mean if you're a pro soccer player or a pro basketball player and you wreck your ankle you're out for weeks I mean these are people who make millions of dollars it's their job if they thought it was the best thing to come back three days later they would do that but the trainers are like no you need to let those tendons heal because if you come back too quickly you might get re -injured
again and i mean a lot of runners are just dumb about this stuff and it drives me freaking nuts like it drives me nuts so if you have the flu and like you're knocked on your ass i'm sorry that sucks no one likes to be sick but rest like just rest until you feel better and then ease back into things and then you might have to readjust your plans like that's just the reality of it i'm fired up about that i love i love i love a mario rant This is great.
All right. Our next question is from Sideline Shepherd. I like the name.
What have been some of your best mindset or mental practices that have helped you in training, coaching, or running?
The biggest one is reminding myself, and I do this as a coach with my athletes, to be present.
That's the number one thing that's gotten myself into trouble as an athlete and the number one thing I see that gets athletes into trouble.
they are oftentimes beating themselves up for something that they missed in training a few days ago or like you know the second rep of the workout went bad and they're hung up on it but the workout is like you know moving on just like be present recognize where you are and what you need to do in that moment don't stress about what hasn't happened yet if you're in a race and you're in mile 13 don't worry about mile 20 yet just what are you going to do in mile 13 to set yourself up for success for the next mile like where you are in training i mean this happens happens with athletes.
Sometimes they'll look ahead and they'll be like, so I see this workout on the calendar, like two weeks from now.
And I'm like, what are you, what are you worried about that for?
You've got two other workouts before we even get there.
Like, let's just be where we are and do what we need to do and not worry about what hasn't happened yet.
So that's the number one thing.
Beyond that, I would say visualization I think can be really, really important, especially when it's in regard to racing and just like, you know, kind of seeing, seeing yourself in that environment, how you want the day to go thinking through situations, good or bad, that, that may happen.
So if you find yourself in that situation, you've already visualized it.
You kind of know what you're going to do.
And that, that comes with experience.
It's something that you can refine over time.
I find that to be a really valuable skill kind of tied to, you know, both of those things, especially the presence thing, giving yourself a mantra or a word that may bring yourself back to center when you can kind of find yourself spiraling, um, in one direction or another, it's just like, be here now for me, it's like, just be here now, you know, type of thing.
Or if I feel myself wanting to, um, you know, give up or like back off the pace.
And I know I just need to stick with it a little bit longer.
I'll tell myself to stay on it.
Right. So it's like giving yourself like a mantra, a power phrase, whatever you want to call it, but something that's going to help center you and bring you back to, you know, kind of, you know, where you are, help you through a situation.
I find that to be super important.
So those would be my top three.
I think I like it. I like how you alluded to some like positive self -talk there, which is always good.
There's a great book called Chatter by Ethan Cross.
It's all about like how you can really use that to kind of help you along.
Well, so along those lines, I mean, it's like i've been coaching a long time so i mean i have seen how athletes will talk to themselves at at any given time and sometimes i'll just push right back to them and i'll say hey pretend this wasn't you would you say that to me or would you say that to your friend the way that you're talking to yourself now and they stop they think about like well no because i'd sound like an asshole um and i wouldn't want to be around that person well why would you talk to yourself like that.
Right. So I think that's also another good exercise too, is like, how do you talk to yourself?
Right. Like really, really think about that.
Like if you're, if you're constantly, you know, hard on yourself and you know, you're riding yourself for like, you know, what you didn't do, or if you came up short, you know, whatever, whatever it may be, if you're doing that to someone else, they'd be like, get out of here.
I don't want to be around you type of thing.
And you wouldn't want to be around that person, you know, either.
So I think like, be the person and that you want to be around, right?
Talk to yourself the way that you would want others to talk to you in a tough situation.
And I mean, that sounds so simple, but it's a really powerful thing, especially if you're in the middle of something hard, like a workout or a race.
Yeah, for sure. For sure.
The next question comes from David W.
He asks, let's say I'm a consistent but fairly low volume runner running 20 to 25 miles per week.
Actually, I mean, yeah, that's a little volume but it's still still getting out there consistent that's great and about one year from now i plan to start training for a marathon and hope to run a pr and maybe even bq time in the fall of 2026 okay how can i best use this year to get ready for a marathon training block i guess ostensibly later in the year next year okay um totally fair question i think the number the number one thing this person has has already addressed and that's consistency so you know if If you're running consistently, even if it's only at 20, 25 miles a week, which I mean,
you know, weekly mileage is going to vary for some, but 2025 is pretty darn low.
If you're going to be training to race 26 and get a BQ, it just is.
But if you have this somewhat, you know, far off goal several months from now, later this year, next year to try and qualify for Boston, you know, that you want to do that.
I would gradually over the period of time between now and when you're going to start that marathon build up build that volume up get that longer and up a little bit longer make your kind of standard you know four mile run six to eight mile run eventually like gradually like over time like bring that up you can do that safely with enough time that would be the number one thing i've always been a big believer if you are training to race a marathon and you have the time spend some time getting fast first i learned this from alan culpepper when he coached me in in 2012 he had always talked about how
he and a lot of his contemporaries raced faster in the fall than they did in the spring because they were coming off of track season so they would go into a marathon block just really fit already and then they started doing you know less 5k 10k type of workouts brought their volume up stretched out their intervals did longer tempo runs long runs that sort of thing and they just responded really well it's actually already really fit going in And the average runner can do that too.
The non -elite can do that too.
So if you have the time, you know, here we are in April, I would spend this summer working on speed, get your 5k, 10k fitness to a really, really good place while you are also gradually, again, just like bringing up that volume, you know, getting comfortable doing some of those longer runs.
And by the time you get to, you know, let's call it 12 weeks out from marathon, you know, you're probably running, you know, call it 40, 45 miles a week.
Um, but you're really fit.
You're, you're feeling, you're feeling great, and then you're going to start layering on top of that.
You'll be doing less fast workouts.
You'll be doing kind of more tempo runs, you know, more emphasis on the long run.
That's all going to bring, you know, your volume probably up to like 50, 55 miles a week, which is pretty solid for a lot of people trained into race a BQ.
And there's plenty of data on that too.
The people who qualify for the Boston marathon are those who, you know, usually run 50 or more, you know, miles a week.
And so just getting yourself to that point where, you know, You can handle it, and you're going into that marathon block with a pretty good level of 5K, 10K fitness tends to be a good recipe for success.
I love it. I love it.
All right. Switching gears a little bit, this question comes from Damon. Should the average runner use a variety of different styles of shoes or stick to a single shoe for their training?
I am a big believer in having a quiver of shoes.
Just like if you're a golfer, you got a bunch of different clubs in your bag for different types of shots.
If you can, I think you should have different types of shoes for different types of runs.
And what you can have, I mean, is largely a matter of affordability.
I completely understand that.
But I think at minimum, most runners should have their kind of everyday trainer that they're going to run most of their miles in, you know, long run, something that's durable and is going to hold up, and then something that you're using for your faster workouts and races.
At a minimum, that's going to serve you really, really well.
Because two things happen.
One, it is going to, you know, even with two pairs of shoes, slightly extend the lifespan of each of those shoes because you're going to give your main trainer a little bit of a break for workouts and races.
Number two, and this one doesn't get talked about enough.
Psychologically, when you put on those fast shoes, you know, it's time to get down to business.
You're not just there to jog around.
You're putting on the fast shoes.
You're going to be ripping intervals on the track, you know, getting into the groove on and a tempo run or, you know, emptying the tank on race day.
And I do think there's something psychological about that.
That's what I like about putting on my tracks, bikes and lacing up my rate, my racers.
It's like puts me in the right mindset of like, all right, like I mean business right now.
So I think at minimum you want to have, you know, two pairs of shoes for me.
I'm fortunate because of my partnerships with new balance and track Smith.
I have many pairs of shoes and I will wear trail shoes when I'm on the trails because Cause they give me better grip and perform more admirably in those environments.
I have a lightweight non carbon shoe that I will wear for workouts when I don't want to wear my carbon racer for the fast workouts.
Again, like we'll help extend the lifespan of both of them, but also just, and this is key, exposes your feet to different stimuli because not all shoes are created equal.
How you run in a high stack carbon plated shoe is going to be different than how you run in a lower stack non -plated shoe one's not good or bad or better or worse than the other but they are different and and i do think it is important to expose your feet and your body to different stimuli and in that regard and that's gonna just help you to become a more well -rounded robust athlete because you know those lower profile shoes are gonna force your your feet to do more work and in the right doses that's good because your feet are going to get stronger your mechanics are going to smooth out a little
bit more but those high stack carbon plated shoes i mean they don't bend at all your feet do a lot less work i think if you're overly reliant on those your feet can get really weak and i've seen people get injured from that but i mean if you wear those shoes for what they're intended for those bigger efforts you are going to recover like quite a bit faster you're going to perform quite a bit better but you also just Just have to use them for the right job.
Yeah, and I also think there's some research that if you do cycle through different pairs of shoes, your risk of injury is actually reduced.
I don't remember the exact percentage, but it is a good idea.
And if you need to, you know, justify to your partner why you need to have a bunch of running shoes, it's like, hey, you know, science.
Well, yeah, exactly.
I mean, consistency and training is key, but you also need to have some variety in there as well.
And I do think variety in the types of shoes that you have on your feet because, again, like it's just different feels underfoot can help keep you healthier over a period of time.
Run at different speeds throughout the week and throughout the year.
Run in different environments.
Don't just run flat on pavement all the time or be on a treadmill all the time.
I mean running, what gets people into trouble is just the repetitive nature of it, right?
It's a repetitive stress, and there's no avoiding that.
but you can introduce some variety in terms of all the things that I, you know, that I just said, and shoes are a big part of that.
I think a lot of runners who run the same loop or two every day of the week in the same pair of shoes at the same speed.
I mean, there's not much variety there.
Right. And so that repetitive stress over time, like that's where an overuse injury happens.
And so I think anything that you can do to help reduce the risk of an overuse injury and running Running in different types of shoes for different types of runs is one way to do that.
It's not a guarantee, but it's one way to do that.
It makes a huge difference.
Yeah, for sure, for sure.
All right. Our next question comes from Kristen, and I love the way she set up this question.
So, and I quote, my question is this.
I just love that. Excluding the various coaching certifications that are out there, what resources would you recommend to learn more about coaching, structuring training blocks, how to build intensity, et cetera?
Thanks for any advice you might have. I love what you do.
Please keep it up. The Morning Shakeout Podcast. I mean, I say that half -jokingly.
I mean, if you go back to the coaching series I did a year within the last year or two, I had a bunch of different coaches on there.
Pillars of performance.
Pillars of performance.
We talked about all of those things, but there are a ton of other great resources as well.
I mean, I've been to a number of coaching clinics over the years, and they've been great.
I've learned a lot from them.
Most of what I've learned is from actually just coaching people.
Um, you gotta, at some point you gotta do the thing.
You can arm yourself with as, as much knowledge as you want.
And there is so much of it out there these days between, you know, podcasts, websites, newsletters, books, courses, certificate, like all of these things.
Like there is no shortage of, of knowledge out there.
And I mean, pursue any of those that make sense for you to learn as much as you can.
But actually coaching people and doing that with some regularity is the best way to become a better coach. And the knowledge acquisition never stops.
And there's no one who knows it all.
I've been doing this a long time.
I'm still just as excited now at 42 years old as I was when I was 16 trying to find as much information as I could about how to run faster.
I mean, I'm still fascinated by it.
And go back to what we talked about earlier.
I mean, what I've learned because I've been doing this for so long is the fundamentals really have not changed.
And that is something I try to keep in mind a lot.
But it's like I still – I don't know at all, and I'm still trying to see the new stuff that kind of comes out so that I can better connect some of those dots that kind of come across my desk over the last like two decades plus.
Well, let me ask you a little follow -up because it sounds like on some level it's like you want to always keep engaging in self -study.
But also it seems like you have like a genuine curiosity about your craft. Yeah.
Like is that kind of what underlies – Everything I do.
I mean, curiosity, if I had to pin it down to one thing and analyze everything I do, and certainly from a coaching standpoint, like I am, I am infinitely, you know, curious about how we can squeeze a little more performance out of someone, how I can better get to understand an athlete, how I can, how I can better, you know, program, optimize recovery, like, you know, all of these things like that curiosity is, is insatiable for me.
And I think it has to be, if you want to stay in this for a long time.
I'm in the other thing too, is, is talk to other coaches.
I mean, I've been fortunate in that.
I've had a lot of great coaches who, who have coached me directly that I've learned from, and also others that I've met through my journey who are coaching high school age groupers, professionals, collegiate athletes that are, that are in my network, so to speak, that I can talk shop with and even coaches outside of running I've learned so much from.
And, and that's really really important as well.
I mean, you can read all the books, you can take all the courses, but I think you got to actually coach people and you got to network and talk to other coaches.
And that's the best way to, you know, expand your knowledge base and become better at your craft. For sure.
For sure. All right.
Our next question comes from another anonymous, and that is, uh, what do you think about running versus strength training for long -term health, wellness, and functional movement?
It's all important.
Like do it. I really cringe at this adjective, hybrid, in front of athlete.
I mean, we're athletes, you know, and part of being just an athlete isn't just running, isn't just strength training, isn't just moving.
It's all of these things.
You know, that's what a well -rounded athlete really focuses on.
So for longevity, all of those things are important.
Obviously, as a distance runner, you're not built like a sprinter.
You're not trying to maximize the same skill.
Obviously, a distance runner is going to focus more on building their endurance and training volume versus power and pure sprint speed type of thing.
That's a specialization type thing.
Um, but if you zoom out, you know, for longevity, all of those things are important.
You gotta be doing some sprinting.
You gotta be focusing on some endurance work.
You gotta be doing some resistance training so that you're strong.
You, I mean, I think before all of that, like you gotta learn how to move well, um, you know, moving well is I think a key to a lot of this stuff and just good health sort of in general.
And, you know, for me in my early forties now, someone who's been a lifelong athlete and wants to be, I now I'm like Pete McGill, who's a great master's runner at one point.
I'm he, he, um, he said to me, he's like, he's like, if you want to, you want to stay in the game, you got to play the game.
And basically what he meant was, you know, as you get older, you can't get away with as much as when you were younger.
I mean, the stuff you can get away with as a teenager and in your twenties and even in your thirties, cause I've definitely done it and I've seen it with my athletes.
It's pretty incredible.
You can get away with a lot of shit.
Um, as you get older, you get away with a lot less.
And so, you know, if you're not, if you're someone who has been running for a long time, like your cardiovascular system is probably in great shape, but if you've been neglecting strength training at some point in your forties, fifties, like you're going to start losing muscle mass and like your capacities are going to decrease.
Like there's, it's never too late to start, but the earlier you start focusing on, on all of these things to some degree for like a longevity from a longevity standpoint, just just to kind of get back to the core of this question, the better off you're going to be.
And that's longevity as an athlete.
If you're someone who wants to continue competing well into older age, but someone who just wants to be an active, healthy, happy person in older age, like you've got to do strength.
You've got to do mobility.
You got to do some endurance stuff.
You should do some explosive sprinting, um, every so often.
And, and again, like, and you got to be doing these things, like you got to move well when you're doing all these things too.
So I think it's important that you focus on all of it.
Yeah. So here's a little follow -up question from Ben G.
all the way from the UK.
So for those who always resist strength and conditioning, if you had to design like a five to six set of exercises to be done two to three times a week, which exercises would you prioritize?
I mean, keep it super simple.
Push, pull, hinge, squat, lunge.
I mean, you can do those, i mean start with body weight and eventually start you know loading up i think those are the five like key movements i may be i may be wrong on that but i think that it's but if you're doing if you're doing those things consistently and over time you can add load to that you're going to be okay um it's like anything else like you you can you can get fancier with it um and i i mean i'm sure there's the equivalent of double threshold workout for some sort of strength thing but can you squat squat well can you deadlift well can you lunge well yeah and and most people aren't
doing any of that stuff at all nil zero so just start doing that like do those basic movements and once you've been doing those consistently enough and you kind of get bored of it or you just don't feel challenged anymore yeah you can you can build upon that in any number of different ways but i'd say for for most people it's like just focus on the fundamentals and doing those things well and doing them consistently and that's going to get you most of the way there all right so here's Here's a second part of Ben's question from the UK.
He said that he ran the London Marathon on Sunday.
Congrats. Following a 16 -week training buildup, he's now got Chicago Marathon in October.
And he asks, would you agree that following a two -week break, focusing a focus on short, sharp 5K training and races will work well in the early summer before going into a shorter sort of 12 -week build for Chicago Marathon?
Yes, absolutely. Touched on that earlier.
Big fan of it. Good approach. Great.
All right. Here's a question that I think will be good to sort of end on.
This comes from Paul.
Is there an elite runner, past or present, whose style and strategy has inspired you the most?
Oh, that is a good question.
I don't think I saw that one come in.
it i mean so i started running in the mid to late 1990s and like a lot of people still even today i was very very inspired by steve priefontaine i watched the movies i had the book uh you know he's the james dean of track and field you know a little bit of an outlaw type of thing so i mean i was always kind of inspired by by that i mean yeah he was he's kind of like a cool runner.
So, um, he was definitely the, the first runner that I was ever inspired by and just the way that he raced.
I mean, he was bold.
He was fearless. He made the race.
He left it all out there.
He got, I mean, uh, you can talk to some of my college teammates cause I definitely carried this in.
I mean, he would get upset at like his training partners if they weren't pulling their weight or he felt like they weren't working hard enough.
And I've always felt that way too especially if i'm on a on a team like you know you want to you kind of want like he was a leader he wanted to lead the way and he wanted people to be as invested in it um you know as he was and i mean i think it for better or worse it says something that this guy who tragically passed away in 1975 i wasn't even born yet but passed away now 50 years ago okay he passed away 50 years ago and he still to this day maybe some of that is dying young and just he'll forever be you know that that runner legend just just a legend but still is is inspiring people much in the same
way to this day on unlike anyone who's come after him says i mean again for better or that says a lot um you know that says a lot but i mean he he was definitely the the first and is still someone i i think about to this day yeah for for me it's a little bit of an obvious pick but like elliot kichogue not even for his race chops but just like his mental chops his like attitude love him yeah same and and i think he's the zen master complete opposite of steve prefontaine i think you gotta have a little of both and so i'm glad that you mentioned that Because, I mean, Elliot, if you've read my newsletter
for any period of time, he's also, like, near the top of my list of people that I would love to have on the Morning Shakeout podcast someday.
I'd love to go to Coptegat and sit down with him for a couple hours and just talk shop.
I mean, he's kind of the opposite of Prefontaine.
He's not loud. He's not brash.
He is very confident.
And he just, I mean, you know, I mean, he's older now.
And he finished, what, sixth at London?
His last few marathons haven't gone so well.
When he was in his peak, like, he was on the start lines.
Like, you knew you were in for a hard day, and you knew you were going to have to probably run a world record or close to it if you were going to have, you know, any shot.
But he wasn't someone who was going to brag about it.
He wasn't loud. He wasn't boisterous.
He was just, like, quietly confident, like, kind of the opposite of Prefontaine.
And so I've drawn from both of those men in particular because I think you need a little bit of both.
And I admire both men.
men, and those different, you know, attributes.
And yeah, they're both two guys that I, I've long look up to and think about often as in regard to my own running and people that I try to model myself after.
All right. So I lied.
We have time for one more question.
We got time for one more.
Fire it at me. Last one from Jack.
He says, hi Mario. A few years ago, my friend coach, Jim Butler appealed on the strength running podcast and had a great Connecticut college College coach. Connecticut college coach. He had a great quote that I am curious your perspective on.
And he's paraphrasing.
He's like, if you're a lifelong runner, you maybe get five to 10 perfect races.
He then amended his statement in person saying he should be capped at five.
Haha. I found it. I found it freeing to think that how rare and fleeting a perfect race can be.
It can only point to one so far in my 13 years of racing.
And he's curious, you know, as a lifelong racer yourself, and I'm now a master's athlete, you know, what do you think about that idea that, you know.
Perfection is this illusory thing, and he thanks you for your years of wisdom and insight.
I'm hesitant to put a number on it, but I agree with the general argument in that you don't get very many perfect races.
And as someone who's run and raced for a long time, I'm someone who's run and raced for a long time.
I mean, I don't need two hands to count the number of quote -unquote perfect races that I've run in my life.
and I have run hundreds of races across all distances and the ones that I would consider perfect or near perfect is certainly no more than 10.
So I think there's something, I think there's something to that.
Um, and if, again, if you're doing this as perfect, doesn't mean when perfect doesn't mean when, but like everything went as well as it could have gone on the day.
I mean, it's rare and those are special days.
And when you have those days, you got to recognize them um i mean that's one thing as a coach especially that drives me crazy is when an athlete does have one of those magical days um oftentimes they will recognize it but if they don't that's where i have to be like you got to realize like that may never happen again and you just and you just have to really appreciate it for you know what it was but it's not going to happen every time out sorry and and not even close to it um you know you'll have a you'll have a lot of like fine races okay races that was pretty good that was you know that was solid
but like Like the truly perfect special ones are few and far between.
And so may I ask you a little follow up on that?
Because I think some of that can be just in sort of your attitude and perspective going into it.
As we just mentioned, sort of defining, well, what does a perfect race look like for you?
And again, it doesn't necessarily need to be the result, but so much of it can just be about how you showed up, right?
So I'm curious when an athlete, let's say they just did Boston a few weeks ago and they They still had a really great time, but they're kind of like admonishing themselves because they screwed up one mile here or there.
How do you talk to an athlete to kind of reframe their perspective to help them?
Yeah, maybe it wasn't the perfect race, but still pretty damn good.
I mean we're looking at two things more than anything else, expectations and execution.
execution. And if, if those two things are in perfect harmony with each other and you have the emotions to support those things being in perfect harmony with each other, like to me, that's like the perfect day.
Um, oftentimes there's going to be like a little bit of a discrepancy there and a little, you know, a little bit's okay.
Um, but I think it's just like being very clear of what are those expectations going in?
How did you execute?
And this is where I think good coaching can really be helpful.
How did those things, you know, sort of line up?
And And that helps kind of give perspective.
And oftentimes when I have an athlete training for a race and we debrief, like we debrief afterward, good, bad, or ugly, we'll go back to like, what are those expectations that we set months ago?
How did they evolve over time?
We've usually revisited them right before the race because we need to remind ourselves of them.
Um, because I've, I've had athletes who have set, you know, expectations and then they've, they've kind of forgotten them.
Uh, and it's like, well, Hey, six months ago, you were like, if I can, if I can do this, if I can break, you know, three hours, that would be a hugely successful day.
And they ended up running like, you know, two 58, but they were on two 56 pace the entire way.
It's like, Hey, all right, well, there's something in the execution there that we need to like talk about.
But you met or exceeded this expectation that six months ago or three months ago, whatever it was, you were like, I would be super happy if I could break three hours, right?
And so it's a big part of my job.
I've said this many times before is helping to keep things in perspective.
And if we end on this because it came up a couple times earlier in this Q &A, that's the real value of coaching that I don't think AI will ever replace.
I mean, the biggest thing that I do with my athletes is to help them keep things in perspective at all times.
And so in this case, I think it's just like really having perspective of, did your execution line up with the expectations?
And if you're able to, to do that, um, that's great.
That's something we need to recognize.
And if not, we got to figure out, you know, why, and then what we can adjust moving forward so we can, you know, hopefully just kind of shrink that gap a little bit.
I love it. Did we do it?
I think we did it. Thank you to everyone who submitted questions.
I'm going to have to get the list of them from you after this.
I can send everyone out their stickers.
I get in touch with everyone, so I can send them out their morning shakeout stickers.
But this is our first AMA of 2025.
Fun, as always. Let's do it again sometime soon.
Sounds good. All right.
Thanks, Chris. All right, that's it for this one Thank you so much for taking the time to listen in If you could, please leave a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or whatever platform you're tuning into this from It means a lot to me and it helps new listeners to discover the show Also, a big thank you to my annual partners for making it possible Check out themorningshakeout .com slash partners to take advantage of some of the discount codes and special offers that are available exclusively to readers and listeners of the morning shakeout.
Before we go, I'd like to give a quick shout -out to John Summerford, who has edited and produced every episode of the podcast, and also Chris Douglas, who is my right -hand man and helps to keep this ship afloat.
And that's all I've got.
I'm Mario Fraioli, and this has been another episode of the morning shakeout podcast.
