Episode 223: The Mysterious Murder of Julia Wallace Part 2｜Morbid

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I have been listening to the Martha's Vineyard Beach and Book Club, which actually Elena recommended to me.

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Hey weirdos, I'm Ash, and I'm Alayna, and this is Morbid.

With allergies. Seasonal allergies are a little bitch.

Guys, I've never got seasonal allergies and the first time I get them is during a global pandemic.

That's... Yeah, it's not fun. Not awesome.

You're getting them a lot worse than me, mostly because I really don't get allergies at all.

Yeah. See, I started getting allergies when I had the twins.

But they weren't that bad. And then I just realized I like went on Twitter and looked around and everybody's complaining about the tree pollen.

So I was like, okay, cool. That's what it is.

Cause it's just, I'm like all filled up.

Yeah. Your face is like a faucet. I apologize if I sound sick.

I do not have COVID. I am, you know, I'm okay.

I'm vaccinated. I haven't gone anywhere.

Oh, my God. I'm finally getting my vaccination tomorrow.

I'm so excited. We will all be vaccinated.

Vaccination station. Oh, I know. I feel bad for...

Because I took it for granted that as a healthcare worker, I was able to get it right away.

And it was just kind of like done for me.

They were like, hey, go sign up on this.

Like, you need to get it. Watching everybody else go through all this, I'm like, oh, I'm sorry.

And I'm only getting it now because I'm like overweight, LOL. i mean it's good that you're getting them yeah anyway you can get it let's get it let's get it So hopefully you're all getting it too.

I hope everybody can be vaccinated soon. so too i just feel for you i don't take it for granted that i was able to get it so easily yeah same so yeah That's the tea so far.

I just wanted to tell you so you weren't like, why do you sound like that?

I really don't think you sound that bad.

Yeah just in case I sound filled up. I know that can be annoying.

When listening to a podcast. I think you sound like Lisa Kudrow.

You know? I've gotten that so many times since starting this podcast, never in my life. no I actually don't think that you do before starting this podcast did I ever and I mean this Never once did I hear you sound like Lisa Kudrow.

The second I started this podcast, I have got it.

Hundreds of times. I know. I've seen it.

It's a crazy phenomenon. And I just like to say it to you.

Because I don't get it. I believe you guys.

I believe that you hear that. In my voice.

But when I listen to Lisa Kudrow, I'm like, I don't sound like that.

Yeah, no, I don't. I don't hear it, to be honest with you.

But I don't know. You guys have really opened my eyes with this.

I don't know. You've disturbed me a little because I can't hear it, but...

Yeah, I can't hear it at all. I actually watched a movie with her in it the other day and I was like, no, that's not you.

It's a weird phenomenon, but I don't know how we got there, but we got there.

Here we are. So we are... In part two of the impossible murder of Julia Wallace back in 1931.

And I said this was going to be two parts.

It's actually going to be three. Yes. I love when you do that.

I can't stop holding stop. i just keep finding stuff and i was like i can't make part two like 18 hours so can't stop won't stop rocking to the impossible There's just too many little things I just need to go into.

So this is going to be a three-parter, but part three is going to come out. within like the next day or two.

So you won't have to wait long for it or anything.

Don't worry. Sorry that you had to wait a few extra days for this one.

But I hope you were like, on the edge of your seat and spoiler alert, there's really no conclusion.

So you're not... You're not really waiting for like an answer.

Wow. And spoiler alert, nothing is solved.

Well, that's why it's called the impossible murder mystery.

So it's going to be a mystery at the end of this.

But I'm going to say what I think happened.

For me, it just reminds me of like an impossible breakfast sandwich.

I don't know what that says about me but i was gonna i thought you meant the case did and i was like all right No, just like how it's named that.

Yeah, that makes sense. Not... The murder doesn't sound like a plant-based meat alternative.

Sure doesn't. It doesn't. But here we are.

So when I left you in part one, we talked about the murder of Julia Wallace. super brutal we talked about her husband William Wallace not Braveheart and and we talked about he was, you know, a chess player, and The two of them were kind of sickly together and they kind of did a tit for tat. with getting sick and who could get more sick it was but it was wonderful they loved each other Yeah.

That's all that matters. And when we left, you know, it was clear that the police were already, you know, you're gonna eye the...

The husband first. Yeah. Always. You know, always.

And so they're already looking at William and being like, huh. what's this about in that whole you know when he returned home from that wild goose chase where that address didn't exist.

He comes back home. And he can't get in the house.

His key isn't working. You know, he's telling the story later.

He's saying that at one point he got to the front door.

It wasn't bolted, but he still couldn't open it with the key.

Went to the back. that wasn't bolted, couldn't get in, went back to the front, suddenly it's bolted now.

It's just a lot of strange things going on.

So of course the police are looking at him being like, what's going on?

I mean, and he was sitting there petting a cat.

What's wrong with him? Exactly. He's trying to comfort their cat.

Weird. So weird. Yeah. So one of the things that was leading them to be like, huh, scratch their chins a little bit. was the fact that a little bit of money was missing out of the cash box in the kitchen.

And it was like forcibly taken out. Like the doors were ripped off and it was clearly.

But then there was more money upstairs that wasn't touched, and it was out in the open.

And none of the handbags were taken or rifled through.

Just strange. It was weird. So there was, he got brought in at the end of the last one and you know, they did their interrogation with him and they asked him, would Julia let somebody in that she didn't know?

And he was like, absolutely not. and people confirm this no way she was not like super social with like people she didn't know And you had said that she was pretty shy anyway.

She was shy. But then he said, you know what? there is somebody who could have gained entry into my house and knows my house.

And they were like, who? Well, this guy called Richard Gordon Perry, and we talked about him in part one.

Basically, just to give you a quick little overview because we are going to talk about him a little more in this one.

He worked with William at the insurance company that he worked for, He was found to be kind of skimming money off the top, stealing money from the company and kind of out of Wallace's pocket at the end of the day.

Yeah. And so Wallace confronted him. And when he kept doing it, he told the boss.

The boss fired Richard Gordon Perry. So essentially, Wallace got this dude fired.

Exactly. Now this dude... had covered for him when he was sick because Wallace had a lot of kidney issues, was sick a lot.

So this guy had covered his insurance route for him.

So he had been in his house. He had been in that cash box to put the insurance payments in there.

So, this is looking like he knows a lot about this stuff.

People were thinking this could have been revenge.

He got him fired. He's pissed. I'll kill your wife.

I'll take the money. It's a really... Seems pretty like... Really escalated quickly. from being fired to I'll kill your wife, but... It definitely does.

Now, what was weird was that... Perry was brought in for questioning, of course, and they're going to look at it.

He immediately offered an alibi for the night before the murders when that strange call to the chess club happened.

And also for the night of the murders. It's like, why would you need to give one for the night before the murders?

Well, and he offered it up without prompting.

Right. So how did you know anything happened the night before?

I mean, the police... didn't care didn't bother them that much because they went into this like zeroing in on wallace and that was it they were going to pin this on William Wallace.

But yeah, just wanted to bring you up to speed on that because we are going to bring Richard Gordon Perry back into this.

So this obviously becomes a case of them deciding who did it before the evidence decides who did it.

They went in there and were like, William Wallace did it.

The evidence is like, maybe not, though.

And they're like, shut up, evidence. You don't know anything.

So the police... And the Emmy, who we talked about, the Emmy, the bumbling opium smoking Emmy.

Yes. How could I forget? He also was like, this is the guy.

He was working right alongside them. He also walked in, sniffed the air, and was like, yep, she's been dead for four hours and two minutes.

Yeah, he touched her and said, oh, rigor.

Okay, it's been four hours. Rigor is like the least... like reliable thing to especially considering the least reliable thing to rely on I know that's why I stopped I was Don't use that word again.

But yeah, I mean, considering the temperature the temperature changes in the room, her age, her temperature of her body.

There's so much. I went over it in part one.

It doesn't make any sense. But, you know, that's what he's going on.

Now, we also talked about in part one that Right before the ME left at like 11pm that night, he happened to go upstairs to use the bathroom upstairs.

And there, suddenly, he notices that there's a little clot of blood on the toilet seat.

Right. And he's like, whoa, weird, considering like a hundred different people have gone through this thing this entire night.

Again, impossible. Yeah, never saw it. And so they were like, he was like, I know that this is from the killer.

The killer came up here and washed his hands after he did this.

Meanwhile... He would have been covered with blood, this killer.

There is not one speck of blood anywhere else in this house.

So he traipsed upstairs, managed not to get even a drip of blood on anything else.

And then washed his hands and was like, whoops, a clot onto the bathroom.

Like, what? It doesn't make sense. No. It doesn't make sense.

Well, they did want to test this blood, obviously, because they've got to.

It was found there. Whether it was placed there by the ME, whether it was transferred accidentally by one of the other investigators, they still got to try.

So they did a test at the lab to make sure it was human blood and not either I mean, it could be animal blood.

Who knows? Or it could have been menstrual blood.

Right. Which would make it a very different scenario.

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So they do the test. What they performed was a test called the precipitant test.

And it basically is to make sure that blood is human and not animal.

This blood came back as definitely human.

Now, the way that the precipitin test works, because it's kind of interesting, I just thought I'd throw it in here. is that they use an animal, usually a rabbit, nine times out of ten.

They inject this animal with human blood.

Now, the animal's blood is going to form antibodies to attack that foreign substance, which is, you know...

And the antibodies are then taken from that animals from the rabbit's bloodstream. from its blood serum and it becomes anti-serum is what they call it.

They put this in a test tube. Then they take this blood that they're trying to figure out whether it's human or whatever from the scene. and they're going to put that into the anti-serum in the test tube.

And when they go together in the test tube, if precipitate forms, which is like a solid substance, you'll see it. then you and it has to happen when the two meet like in the line where the two are blood like the blood serum the anti-serum and the questionable blood meat okay That's where the precipitate will form and if that happens, then it's human blood.

Okay. So it's really interesting, really intricate.

Yeah. Has to be done right. An experiment.

Very... It needs to be done right. So...

He did this, the ME, Professor McFall, and he said, yep, it formed the precipitate.

It's human blood. But what's interesting about this is a few months after this, he was doing some other case totally unrelated to this.

And he made a worker at the medical facility in the University of Liverpool actually do the precipitin test.

Because he said, and I quote, I could never get the hang of it. so what the fuck and also like what do you mean you can't get the hang of it like like that's it's like sure it's like a very intricate test but it's like that's your job yo You just use that to, like... And not that it's really, like... This piece of evidence doesn't really hinge on anything, because... in all likelihood, that clot of blood was brought up there by an investigator accidentally, like, transferred.

Yeah. Or by the ME himself. Right. Doesn't really matter.

It's like it doesn't prove anything, really.

At all. But what it does prove here is that he's kind of a bullshitter.

Yeah. So it's like, that doesn't give me a lot of faith in him.

Not even kind of. He just is a bullshitter.

Exactly. So that's just interesting. I found that in the killing of Julia Wallace, and I'll post the link for that in here.

Very strange. Weird, weird, weird, weird.

Now, the evening of the murder. We're going to go back to Richard Gordon Perry for a second.

The evening of the murder. Remember, he said that evening he had an alibi.

He had an alibi for the night before, too.

Now, while this scene is being taken care of after Julia was found, the police are all at the scene. all this is going on at the house while this is going on at the house late night past midnight our friend Richard Gordon Perry was bringing his car somewhere to get fixed up somewhere around midnight.

Now, he showed up at Atkinson's all-night garage and taxi service.

That was in Moscow Drive and Stonycroft. and he spoke to an employee there named John Parks.

John Parks and he, I think, knew each other somehow. like they were aware of each other.

Acquainted. John said later that Perry told him, you know, I need my car cleaned on the inside and the outside.

Weird time for you to do that. Very weird.

Now he said he wanted it completely done.

Yeah, I bet. Totally hosed off, totally scrubbed down.

So John was like, I looked at it and I was like...

I don't see anything that needs to. So he was like, are you sure?

Like, do you really want me to do this right now?

Like, I don't see anything wrong with it.

That's weird. Like, why do you want me to do that?

And he was like, no. He said he looked... very stressed out, very frazzled.

And he was like, I need you to do it. Just do it.

He was like, okay. So he was like, all right.

So he said he was doing it all. He moves on to the inside and he said he opened the glove compartment to take out whatever was in there so that it wouldn't get wet while he was cleaning because he said completely clean.

So he said he removed a leather baseball mitt, which is not weird.

It's like, you know, he played baseball.

Yeah, whatever. So he said he removes the mint and he says when he removes it, he said it was already soaked in blood. and he's like very clearly blood, like soaked in it.

So John was like, But he kept silent because he was like, I don't know what to say about this.

Right. I don't want to be involved. Yeah, he was like, you know what?

Perry was acting really strange. He was kind of freaking me out.

I didn't want to, like, push this any further, so I just... like noted that yeah i locked it in there and i just let it go so he said perry left after i completely did the rest of it which shaking his ass off probably finishing the rest of this car being like what am I scrubbing away right now yes yeah So he said he lost, or he lost, he left, and John Parks went to his boss who owned the garage. yeah and he was like hey we got a sitch let me tell you what i just found clean up on aisle five yeah and he tells him He's like, all right, I found this.

And his boss is like, wow, that's fucked.

And then he's like, that's really crazy.

And the two of them were like, Oh shit, did you see on the news that like that Julia Wallace, like Mr. Wallace's wife was pregnant? brutally murdered.

And they were like, yeah, we've like heard around town.

It's been like everywhere. And so he was like, OK.

Here's the thing. And they knew that, like, you know, these two men knew each other that he had.

So they were like, OK, if Wallace is arrested. for the murder, you need to go forward with this information.

You need to at least have them know that there might be another suspect here.

If he is not arrested, You do what you want with it.

But he's like, I would hold it until an arrest is made.

Okay. I don't know if I agree with that.

I don't think I do. You know, 1930s, I guess.

Like, everybody's just like... I don't want to be involved.

Yeah, they're just like, whatever, I'm just going to stay over here.

I'm going to stay in my lane. I'm going to put on a bowler hat and be fine.

So John Parks was like, all right. I'll wait.

I'll see. If Mr. Wallace is arrested, I will go forward and try to help him out with this information.

If he's not arrested, maybe I won't. We'll see.

Maybe I won't introduce myself. I'll flip a coin.

So that's interesting. That'll come back later.

So hang on to it. I'm holding it. Just put it away.

I'm holding it in my baseball mitt. Yeah, put that in your blood soaked leather baseball mitt that you stick in your glove compartment.

So meanwhile, the body was taken to Prince's Dock Mortuary.

And now she's being looked over at Julia.

Some interesting things came out of this examination.

There were burns found on the skirt that indicated to them that she had been grabbed by the neck.

And then they said, and also by her hair, because her hair pad had been ripped viciously out of her head.

Yeah. They saw the burns and this disarray as evidence that she had obviously fallen kind of into the fireplace a little bit. after she was first hit and then whoever had done it had dragged her to where she was found.

Kind of like thrown her down into where she was found.

So really brutal. Yeah. Really brutal. And it places her closer to the fireplace when the first hit was done.

So it's helping to kind of like. see where this all began.

Now when they looked at her clothing, they noticed that her underclothes were handmade and kind of strangely fitting. which is not weird for her because she kind of that's how she rocked things like she handmade a lot of her stuff even though she didn't have to yeah And a lot of it was kind of ill-fitting and like her undergarments were always sticking out from under her skirt and shit.

I love it. She just didn't give a fuck. Yeah.

Hot Mess Express. Yeah, she didn't care.

So they were like, all right. And what they found was they also found money. tucked into a little pocket that was sewn into her corset.

That's kind of badass. Which is kind of, like, mafia-esque.

Like, that's, like, very... I was like, whoa.

What were you doing with that? That's the thing.

And I think in the beginning of this, you were like, if you're lying to your husband about your age, what else are you lying about?

Well, that's, yeah. And it's like, lying to your husband about your age, like, you're married now.

You should probably let that one out of the bag.

You've been married for quite some time.

And it's like you were lying about like 17 years.

Yeah, like not like I'm. That's a lot. oh, I'm 25 and you're 30.

Because even that, like, don't lie, but...

Well, exactly. And it's like any kind of lie about your age to your spouse is weird.

It's weird. Yeah, like that's weird. But that much?

And then all of a sudden... you know, this comes about and we've heard before and we'll hear later that Like they asked William Wallace whether he knew if his wife had money of her own.

And he was like, probably. But he didn't really know.

I don't know how much she would have or where it would be.

And it's like, what? And it's like, why?

I don't know. I just... And a rumor kind of comes...

A lot of rumors happen in this case because this was one of those, like... you know, small areas.

Everybody knew each other. Shit went around fast.

This was a big deal. Yeah. So rumors come out of a lot of these little weird idiosyncrasies here.

Now, so that's interesting. And they look further and a really interesting thing is that really speaks to the fact that maybe William didn't know how old she was.

Maybe he did. They said they looked further and to their surprise, they found out that she was wearing a handmade adult diaper of sorts.

Oh. And it was like a piece of white felt.

That was basically fashioned into a diaper, which, you know, she's older.

She's in poor health anyways. Yeah. So it's like.

That is to be expected when age comes. Yeah.

Incontinence can happen. But it also is kind of like... showing that she's much older than what she is putting on.

And it's like, did William know this? Did William know that she was incontinent?

Did he know any of this? That would be so wild to just be able to pull that off, like hiding that.

Yeah, it's strange. When you're married to someone and like...

You would think he would know. Do they sleep in the same room?

Do you know? I don't know, to be honest.

Huh. That's something that's an interesting thing.

Maybe I'll find it for part three. But yeah, that would be interesting to find out.

Yeah. But then you go, you know, because then we're going to learn that a lot of these rumors go into, like, you know, sexual shit.

And it's like... I feel like that would be known if you're if you know, if you're I don't know.

There's just a lot. It was a strange thing that was very interesting to investigators being like, huh.

But then I guess like in that time period, it's like, did you really get undressed in front of your husband?

I don't really know. I know. I have no idea in the 30s how, like, you know.

That's really fucking wild to think about.

Like, that is really wild. I wonder actually, you know what, let me pause.

So I looked it up because it's not your job to look it up, it's mine.

I looked it up and it looks like in the 1930s, twin beds in the same room. were a thing.

It was like, it was the fashionable modern choice of the 1920s.

30s. So like they each had a twin bed. Yeah, because before that I think it was like separate bedrooms, goodnight, see you later.

And then It became we can sleep in the same bedroom now, just in two beds.

They are described as sharing a bedroom.

It was their bedroom, so they were at least in the same room together.

And I imagine they were in twin beds because it looks like that was the cool thing to do back then.

All right. I read a thing that said in the 1950s it was seen as, if you were in twin beds and not in the same bed, it was seen as like...

A sign of a failing marriage. Oh, man. Wow.

Okay. I mean, sometimes I want my own space, but shit's wild.

I don't have a twin bed. Shit is wild. Maybe I should get a twin size mattress.

That's always crazy to me to see like old sitcoms.

When you see, like, you know, in I Love Lucy and stuff, you see things where people are in twin beds, and you're like, That's so strange.

99 over there. I'm so used to not seeing that.

It's just weird. Whatever floats your boat.

So yeah, they were in the time period where they would be sleeping in separate beds.

Likely. I mean... They absolutely could have shared one.

There's nothing that says they did or didn't, but they were in the same room.

So then if you think about that, though, like, she... The modesty thing.

Yeah, it's, like, modest. And she had... I was just thinking...

She had that room for her like hats and handbags.

I wonder if that was almost like a dressing room.

Absolutely. And it's, I think the style then too was the very like choked neck. shirts that are very high and very, you know, you're covered up.

You've got like 16 layers of clothing. Got like 82 petticoats.

So it kind of makes sense that they might not know that.

Maybe he didn't know. There's not a whole lot of peeking under all those clothing layers happening, I guess.

Gonna get an arm workout lifting a skirt.

But either way, I think it just leads to one of those things where everybody questions, how much did he not know? about his wife.

How much was she not sharing? So while they're speaking to Wallace at the police station that night.

They're formally taking his statements and all that good stuff.

Officer Bailey, who was one of the first ones on scene, went back to the scene.

He was like, I'm going to do one more look through because it got kind of mayhem before that.

There was a lot of people in there. So he said, I'm going to check through to see if there's any missed evidence now that everybody's cleared out.

So he and a few other investigators took possession while they were in the house of the money that was left in the home. and Julia's handbags to bring back to like put out as evidence.

They did find out while they were looking through it that one of the paper monies had a smear of blood on it.

Oh, okay. And it was one of the paper monies that was upstairs in their bedroom.

Oh. So that's interesting. People had looked at this money many times throughout the scene investigating that day and night. and somehow never saw it.

But again, we also have a blood clot in the upstairs bathroom that No one saw.

It's either there the whole time and no one saw it or they brought it up there accidentally because duh.

So the question now is whether they missed it. the first few times they saw it, meaning that the blood ended up on the note because the murderer, be it Wallace or some unknown person, touch the money after killing Julia,

Or the blood was on there because the investigators or Wallace was touching the stuff after they discovered and touched Julia. yeah because no one's snapping on gloves here they're all just touching which is a huge yikes but it's also like why would you touch money and not take it at as a murderer.

Like there was money missing from the cash box, right?

Exactly. And that's the question we have.

So if it's an unknown murderer, the only... And it's a... pretty loose reasonable explanation would be he went up there, he goes to grab the money, then he thinks better of it and puts it back.

Weird. I don't see that happening. He didn't think better of not taking a human life, so I don't really see that happening.

And then you think if it was Wallace, did he go up there, go to take that money to make it look like a robbery and then things got out, you know... time got away from him or he decided no I'm just going to take the one downstairs and make it seem more pointed that somebody was going after that money and not this money.

Just the way that you described the investigation, I feel like it may have been an accident.

I 100% think this was somebody in that investigation, be it William or someone else that...

They did bring him upstairs to go look through everything to show them whether something was missing.

He went through there and had to count the money to show them whether he had it.

He had already touched Julia. Right. 100% he could have so it's just strange that smear really doesn't go anywhere Either.

They don't really do much with it. It's just, and it's like, it's a fucking blur. smear?

Does someone want to, I don't know, rule this out in some way, some way or another to help any side?

Nobody ever really got the hang of that.

They didn't get the hang of a lot of stuff in here.

So they also found... As they're looking through, they find that.

They also find on the shelf in the kitchen where that cash box was, They find his diaries that he had kept meticulously.

In fact, in those diaries, I don't think he even missed a day. in those diaries of even just writing down this and it was like a lot of just boring stuff you know like i'm just going to work today I ate a hard-boiled egg.

It was delicious. And he wrote once, once.

In all of the diaries in years of being together, he wrote once that they had a, quote, falling out him and julia oh because she was buying too many newspapers I mean, that'll end any marriage.

That was their fight. Me and Drew constantly fight about my newspaper intake.

Whatever... I buy another newspaper. John's like, this might be the one.

Like, come on, Alina. Get it together. This might be the one. that breaks us.

It's like 30 cents. We don't have that right now.

We get through it. Yeah, you know, we get through it.

But that's their fight. Their one fight that he manages to even mention.

Yeah. Is over her buying too many newspapers and it was described as a falling out.

And then it was just nothing else happened for her.

Because newspapers code for something else.

Like drugs or something. That's stupid. No.

Newspaper is actually code for opium. No, I literally think their fight was literally like, Julia...

You're buying too many papers. And she was like... She was pissed.

Shut up, William. And he was like, man...

And then they just moved on. Alright. That's what it seems like.

Get it. So that was the only time they ever fought.

They were not... He wasn't writing about, like, we got in another fight again, you know?

And he was... he was on it he would have written it if it was in there yeah and it was such it was like a minor complaint here and there like you know she's sick again right it's kind of annoying but like whatever yeah and no other fights You know what's even more stressful than a packed calendar?

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The sale ends 831. Don't miss it. So, in fact, on January 7th, just to prove that they didn't have this icy cold marriage that...

Some people said they had this loving marriage.

Some people said they had this icy cold, tension-filled marriage.

I would put it somewhere in the normal realm of a marriage.

Because it's on January 7th, 1931. He wrote, quote, A night of keen frost, the heavy fog gives a wonderful appearance to all plants and trees.

Every twig and leaf was most beautifully bordered and outlined with a white rim of frost. holly leaves owning to their wavy edges presented a most charming appearance, and I cannot recollect an occasion on which it had produced such wonderfully beautiful effects.

After dinner, I persuaded Julia to go to Stanley Park.

She was equally charmed. A gradual thaw seems to be setting in now.

Aww. So he literally is like, everything's beautiful and mystical and it's like a snow globe.

And then I convinced my beautiful wife to come with me and look at it.

She was enchanted as well. It was lovely.

I love that. I feel like you don't hate each other.

Yeah, I know. The only thing I'll say, though, about that is, like, the word persuaded is a little weird.

Like... Oh, I think that's just how he was talking.

I persuaded her to come with me. Like, I convinced her to come with me.

I don't think that was, like, I fucking held a gun to her head.

Well, no, I know that. I'm saying, like, I just meant, like... maybe she like didn't feel like going and he was like he had to like you know push her along I think it was more just like I persuaded her like I was like come look at it with me and You know what I mean?

I think that's just the time. He writes very flowery.

He does. But it just is kind of like, you know, she was equally charmed by it.

I know. Just watch the frost together. I love that.

So yeah, so that just shows like that they weren't like cats and dogs.

Yeah. According to his... his writing. Now, Wallace was brought at this point after being, you know, interrogated for hours.

The Simp, I read in a couple places, like, 12 hours.

Oh, damn. During which he just, like, chain smoked completely.

Like, he barely ate. Because he's probably like stressed out.

Now, after this, he was brought to his sister-in-law's house, Amy Wallace.

Oh, man. And she was going to be staying there.

She was the wife of his brother Joseph. Okay.

And Julia also had a sister, Amy, which is interesting.

Oh, that's funny. Now immediately... So he's brought to his sister, Amy Wallace.

She has a son, Edwin, who they're going to be staying together.

Uh, it's basically like, obviously he can't be in the crime scene and that's the place to go.

So immediately. the papers and people around town are like, oh my god, he's living with his sister-in-law, they are fucking...

100. Like, and you're like, Does his brother live there too?

His wife was just murdered. Like, this is the only family he has here.

What? Yeah. Say... Say what? Like, excuse me?

This is like a smear campaign. Well, and so Joseph, his brother, is an Indian-like business.

Mm-hmm. so they were now people are like oh yeah like that's what's happening not like like he they are living together now this affair is in the open It's happening.

So now the newest thing was that Julia found out that Amy and William were having an affair.

Yes. And Amy was like, William? Me or her.

You gotta kill her so we can live happily ever after together.

And it's like, what are we going to do with his brother then?

Well, here's the thing. Amy's husband, everyone said, because nobody knew he was in India, so everyone was like, well, he was murdered as well, just quietly.

Quietly murdered. Yeah, they just quietly murdered him.

As one does. Now Joseph, by the way... is very close like like comes back was on his way during all this home to be by William's side and stays throughout his side throughout the trial and everything.

My wife and my brother aren't fookin' on the low.

Not happening. I'm not murdered. I am here.

Hi, hello, hi. And it's... Poor Amy is just thrown into this, and I guess everybody was treating her like she's this woman who likes the other woman.

She's a mistress. So Julia's sister, or excuse me, the sister-in-law, Amy, like I said, had a son, Edwin.

And he was a medical student, upstanding citizen.

And he said this to police in a statement when they spoke to him about the murder.

He said, quote, except for periods of absence at boarding school, I have been in close touch with my uncle and his wife.

I never once saw any quarrels between them or anything other than an atmosphere of mutual trust and happiness.

Up in the upstairs back room, my uncle has a laboratory.

My aunt rather objected to this being up in the back room.

As she said, it was too cold and damp for him as he was not strong.

There's no hint of ill feeling about this.

Oh. So then Amy Wallace, who is now being accused of like having an affair with him.

Yeah. said quote i visited the wallaces frequently and very often they would play music for us for an hour or so Everything about the household was perfectly normal and seemed very happy.

Mr. Wallace relied on his wife a great deal to look after him.

She did it without his bothering. And for example, She would change his wet clothes when he had been out collecting.

On the evening of Sunday, the 18th of January last...

I was at Wolverton Street with my son and everything passed off in the usual way.

As usual, the Wallaces were very comfortable and happy, except that Mrs. Wallace had a cold.

Mrs. Wallace was telling us about a burglary about two doors down the road.

This doesn't seem like the other woman. No, no, no.

I think that's... preposterous. It's very preposterous.

Yeah. The salaciousness of these people in this area this time, I'm like, This is hilarious because like the tea that they want.

Well, because they're just not the tea they're getting.

So they're just going to make it. They're bored as fuck.

They make up the weirdest shit. Wait until you see the rest of the stuff they make up.

It's hilarious. I love it. It's amazing.

We love a town gossip. The whole town is a gossip.

It's great. So about his demeanor, because remember that was a big bone of contention for everybody.

Everybody was saying, the Johnstons, the neighbors who showed up when they discovered Julia, were saying how you know he was very clearly upset he was sobbing in the kitchen like he was petting that cat because that was julia's cat and the cat had been missing and just randomly came back.

But the ME and all the investigators said he was stone cold, too calm, too... totally detached, like weird demeanor, wasn't showing any emotion.

We talked about how that's bullshit. A lot of people.

Right. I would be the same way probably.

So you can't judge that. So about his demeanor, they asked Amy and Edwin, because now they've been around him.

And Amy said, quote, She's talking about the night of, the crime.

Mr. Wallace was sitting by the fire in the kitchen, almost heartbroken, very much cut up and crying.

Usually he is rather a calm man, but tonight he was very much upset indeed, as was to be expected.

Edwin said, quote, he was awfully upset and had his handkerchief to his eyes as he was crying profusely.

I told my uncle I was terribly sorry and he said, yes, I realize that and nothing said at this time can help.

He continued to be terribly upset all the time that we were there.

So these two are being like, oh no, he wasn't this stone cold, like not doing anything.

He was fucking sobbing. Like, and it doesn't matter.

But Amy later said that when they got home after the police had left finally again, Uh, he didn't even want to change out of his clothing and he just laid down on the couch and she was like, do you want to like change or like take you know get dressed up or get washed and get comfy and he said he just like shook his head and i guess he said i shall miss her terribly

Oh, so to me, that sounds like somebody who's grieving.

Yes. Like very upset and had somebody taken away from them.

Yeah. Taken somebody. away from themselves right now the next day people start calling in with tips and shit because even in the 1930s everybody was like I gotta get my shit out of here.

So they called. One call. so that they knew the Wallaces had a maid that they had recently fired.

So they were like, huh. And then this person was like, and I want you to know that Wallace is fucking the maid.

Oh, God. So it's like... What is going on with this?

What is going on with this? So this person is like, So Wallace is getting it on with the maid.

Julia found out and fired her. So obviously...

He murdered her so that they could be together, him and the maid.

Cool. Where's the maid, then? Clearly. So they had to take this seriously because what the hell else... are they gonna do and it sounds so salacious how could they not follow this up you come on yeah us weekly So, they ask Wallace about it.

They're like, hello, did you have a maid that you were fucking and then Julia found out and she fired them and now... you two killed her and he said oh shit sorry yeah and he was like No, we never had a maid ever.

And he was like, We did have a part-time housekeeper that literally came in once a week and worked with Julia to clean the house.

Yeah. Just kind of like helped her out with the heavier stuff.

Right. And he was like, that's literally all we have.

So he was like, I don't. And I think he was like, I think her name's Sarah.

I don't talk to her much. She works with Mrs. Wallace.

And then he was like, you can find her on like Derby Street.

I think it was. She lives on Derby Street.

Yeah. So he was like, go get her. You can ask her.

So they did find her. Her name was Sarah Draper.

Oh, there you go. And she said she was actually hired by Mr. Wallace but didn't interact with him much because he was working most of the time.

And she said Julia was sick a lot, so she needed a hand with the heavier stuff in the house once a week.

Yeah, everything that Wallace said. She said we had a great relationship, me and Julia.

We... She was fine. Nothing weird. I wasn't fucking Wallace.

Definitely wasn't fucking William Wallace.

Barely saw him. Thank you though. He didn't remember my name.

So there's that. So they were like, okay, cool.

Cool. But you probably know more. And she was like, probably not.

So they were like, we should. She was like, probably not.

So they brought her to the crime scene. That's a lot.

And they're like, you know, Julie is removed at this point, but there's the after effects.

And they were like, you need to walk around with us and you need to tell us if you see anything strange.

Do you see anything that's missing from this house that you see in this house every Wednesday.

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So she's like, cool. So immediately upon getting into the parlor, she's like, oh, one of the fire pokers is missing.

Yeah. And they were like, oh, and they were like, which one?

She was like, it's about nine inches long.

Always in the same place. It's not there right now.

Right. That's definitely missing. So she said, also a large piece of iron, about a foot long and about as thick as a candle.

And she said that was missing. And she said she always saw it.

It was always in the fireplace in the parlor.

I guess what they used it for was to like brush out ashes, like brush out like cigarette butts or lit matchsticks and stuff that from the fire yeah so she's like we use it all the time they use it a lot And it's always there, it's not there.

So they were like, those two things are missing.

So they're like, cool. So they bring Wallace back in and they're like, do you see anything missing?

Let's just give you one more shot at this.

He says no, he doesn't see anything missing.

But he's like, I mean, he's a little stressed out right now.

It doesn't sound like he does a lot of the household stuff.

Right. So maybe he doesn't even know that he wouldn't notice.

He doesn't do that shit. Yeah. They do that shit.

Right. So why would he notice? Right. So they told the Emmy Professor McFall or McPhail, however we want to talk to him. uh about the iron piece and they were like you know this it's like a thickness of a candle it's pretty like decent And they were like, could this have been the murder weapon?

Because we're looking for that murder weapon.

And he's like, yup. Yep, it could have.

Oh, my God. So problem was Sarah described this iron bar to them.

They don't have the iron bar. You don't know exactly what it looks like.

She's just telling them what it looks like.

Maybe don't go off of that. And also Sarah, when he was like, yep, totally.

Like, that's it. She was like, well, like it was rusty. as hell like this is a very rusty thing and she's like the whole thing was rusted out rust would have come off of it if it was hit on something Yeah.

Well, in her wounds, Julia's wounds and on her, no rest was found.

None. But they totally ignored that. They were like, nope, that's the weapon.

We gotta find that. So it was like, what the fuck?

Now, then they hear from this switchboard operator, because at this point they're trying to figure out where that call the night before came from.

They're still working on that while trying to work on the immediate stuff of, like, the murder weapon and all that.

Right. So in the background, they've been working on where that call came from, trying to trace it. they finally hear from a switchboard operator named Leslie Heaton.

Uh, and she was the one who actually helped them figure out where the call came from, which like, what about us?

Love that. It was a phone booth and they found out that it was 400 yards from Wallace's house. that that phone call was made.

And it was actually next to the tram stop that he used to get to the chess meeting that night. uh-huh so this a little weird doesn't look great for him Because it kind of looks like he could make that call, jump on, pop over, and oop, he showed up right after that call.

Weird. Yeah. So that's interesting, but not like smoking gun.

That's called circumstantial evidence. But certainly interesting.

Yeah. You gotta... Put it in your hat a little bit and just hold it there for a minute.

Put it in your hat. Just put it in your hat.

That's what you do with important things.

All right, Yankees. I don't know where that came from, but I did.

I put important things in my hat that I don't wear because you're always, yeah.

So now the autopsy is happening. Alrighty.

Here, let's look at the autopsy. So the autopsy happened on January 21st, 1931 at Prince's Dock Mortuary. the ME, Dr. McPhail said that He was examining the body of Julia Wallace and he said a woman of about 55 years old.

She was 69. That's a really big difference.

Like, that's a really big difference. I love that this guy's like, yup, she was 55 years old.

You can't even tell how old she is? Like, that's a lot of stupid.

What's happening right now? Yeah. You're silly.

Yeah. She was about 5'2". maybe a little taller, lightly built, prominent abdomen, which I was like, rude.

I don't know what that means. Prominent abdomen?

I feel like that's not a nice thing to say, I don't feel like. like fuck you what the hell No matter what it means, it's like that just doesn't, that sounds rude.

Yeah, shut up. I don't know. You just don't need to say it.

She was not pregnant, they said. No? Not at 69 years old?

There was small recent bruise mark on the inside of her left upper arm.

There was no other marks of violence on the trunks or limbs. the hair was matted with blood and brain tissue gross they did um shave her hair off so they could get a better view of it.

There are crime scene photos of this. You can see the the crime scene you can also see her head spooky after it was shaved so you can see it um There is a pretty big wound.

It's a lacerated wound on her head, two inches by three inches. from which the brain and bone were protruding.

On the back of the head on the left side were 10 diagonal, apparently incised wounds.

Okay. Now like, like a cut wounds. Yeah.

Yeah. So, um, They said, Ow. The hole of the left side of the back of the skull was driven in and broken into pieces.

Ow. The injury extended into the middle in Rio Fossa. fracturing and breaking up the rear part of the cerebellum. bursting the tentorium cerebelli and breaking up the left part of the cerebellum.

So basically, it's just shattering. That brain tissue.

Yeah. The left lateral sinus was broken across.

Also, the men... I can never say it, meningeal, there we go, meningeal arteries.

So the appearance, it says, was as if a terrific force with a large surface had driven in the scalp bursting it into parallel lines with the appearance. of several incised wounds, but the edges of these wounds were not sharp.

So it almost looked like She got that giant hit and a couple more, and then that, it just kept happening.

At least a few, a handful of hits. So everything else they said was pretty normal.

They said the stomach contained about four ounces semi-fluid. consisting of currants, raisins, and unmasticated lumps of carbohydrate.

Interesting. So she had some kind of bread or muffin or scone with like raisins and currants in it.

What's currants? Currants are like other little like fruit thing or raisiny kind of things.

It says everything else was normal. And it says, I am of the opinion that death was due to fracture of the skull by someone striking the deceased. three or four times with a hard, large-headed instrument.

Now three or four times, he says. He later changes this at trial.

Yeah, that seems like not a lot. Changes it by a lot.

As we'll see. Because they, like, in my terms, they demolished her head.

Oh, 100%. Like, I feel like that's a lot more than three or four hits.

Yeah, I mean, it definitely, given if you did it with, like, enough force, you get her down in the first one.

Yeah. you are able to get three more like really hard ones.

You could do it. But honestly, I wouldn't question it so much if he didn't.

He changed it later. So it's like, which one is it?

Right. So then Wallace told police they had eaten a meal together before he went back out.

Okay. Before he went back out, he said that they had had scones together.

So that could be the carbohydrate thing.

Now, he said that this was a bit past 6 p.m., But McFall said she was dead by 6 p.m.

Yeah, but he was hella wrong. But the meal is there to confirm that she was alive and eating past 6.

So already we're like fucking up. This time is bullshit.

Yeah. But they keep hinging on it. They hinge on his shit.

Now, remember, this was such a brutal murder that whoever did it would have been... covered in blood yeah covered there's no way you would get away from this In fact, the first thing the cops did was tell everyone to look for people covered in bloodstains just walking around the city.

That's my favorite. Yeah, they're just like, go find those people.

As if they would not change their clothes.

Well, obviously, Wallace's clothing was microscopically analyzed because... because they're going to look to see.

It was analyzed by William Roberts, who is a forensic analyst specializing in this.

He said there was not even one speck of blood on his clothing.

Wow. And they did a benzidine test. So even if he had washed his clothing, which one would he have done that? it still would have reacted positively.

Wow. The test is such that when the benzidine, hydrogen peroxide, and glacial acetic acid, acid comes in contact with blood, the resulting solution will turn blue. to indicate a positive reaction.

Didn't happen. I think that's so cool that you could even do that back then.

Yeah, I know. They were like really up on it.

Yeah, I'm pretty impressed. But apparently this doesn't matter.

Oh, okay. So the police officer that was working this case actually said at this point, quote, I remember one of my colleagues remarking that if Wallace was the criminal, he had not only committed a crime, but perfected a miracle.

He had to have escaped from the murder room as clean as he went in, was like taking a shower or a bath and not getting wet.

Wow. So they're all sitting there being like, this is literally impossible.

But we have to pretend like it's not. Says literally plant based.

So you want to know what they're, because this is pretty, how do you explain that?

Yeah, you don't. He doesn't have a speck of blood on him.

Explain it. So they were like, oh, explain it?

Okay. He was fucking naked. He was naked.

He was naked. What? No, he wasn't just naked.

He was naked with his coat on. And his coat protected him.

So he's naked with a Macintosh coat on. What?

Yep. And that coat that was found beneath Julia, that was his.

The one that they kept asking him, is that yours?

And he was like, yes, it's mine. She was the one who put it on.

They were like, that's the one that you were wearing.

You stripped off all your clothes. You were butt ass naked.

You put on that Macintosh to protect you from getting blood on you.

And then when you saw that it was soaked in blood, you just stuffed it under Julia.

Which seems like the right thing to do, right?

No, you wouldn't get rid of the coat. You would just stuff it under her.

Yep. So William Wallace, a 52-year-old insurance salesman who is killing his wife for no discernible reason at all.

Did it while naked. Did it naked. Kinky.

It's getting awesome. It's really a lot.

It's getting kinky. It's getting weird. It's getting awesome.

And it's going to get even more weird. We're keeping it weird on this one.

By now, the newspapers had accounted all of this, and it seems like Wallace was being blamed for, in every way, shape, and Oh, yeah.

So now there's been, you know, there's been a few people that went to the Wallace's house that day.

They had like milk delivery. They had, you know, bread delivery.

There was all kinds of deliveries that happened back then.

It was usually kids who did these things, like 14 year olds.

Yeah, like kids with paper routes and shit.

So one of these boys was named Douglas Metcalf. and he delivered newspapers to the Wallaces every morning.

He was Speaking to friends who because they had told him, you know, they don't need their newspaper anymore.

Don't deliver it. Julia's got too many of them.

So he's talking to his other friends who delivered other things, like the dairy and such. a girl who worked with the son of the dairy shop owner.

His name was Alan Close. He was a 14-year-old boy.

He said that he actually delivered milk to the Wallaces and he did this every day.

And she said that he had told her he delivered milk to Mrs. Wallace that day around a quarter to seven.

Now, when Metcalf heard her say this, he told her, he was like, the newspapers are saying that the bread boy, Neil, was the last guy to see her love. but it was Alan.

At a quarter to seven. Yeah, and they were like, and Alan needs to go to the police and tell them that he saw her at a quarter to seven because Mr. Wallace is being railroaded for this.

Somebody's got to say something. Right. So 14-year-old Alan shows up to this group of kids, and Douglas Metcalf is like...

Dude, when did you see Mrs. Like, doesn't say he knows.

It's just like, when did you see Mrs. Wallace on that day?

Yeah. And he's like, oh, I saw her at a quarter to seven.

Right. Hello. Metcalf is like, holy shit, and says the same thing to him.

You got to tell the police. So he's like, all right, that will give them like kind of a, at least like somewhat of an alibi or make them at least look at it more.

Yeah. So they convinced him to go to the house where the police are stationed because they're still stationed at the crime scene.

He goes there. The police officer ushers him in and talks to him for a second.

He apparently comes out and he tells them that He's like, nope, they told me not to mention it to anybody.

Because they wanted everyone to be like, oh, William Wallace did it.

We're safe. Nothing to see here. Yeah. They were literally like, yep, because they talked to McPhail, or McFall, but McPhail.

So they talked to McPhail and he was like, no, that's bullshit.

She was dead by six. And they were like, but what if this kid is saying that he literally talked to her, like literally handed her...

He's like, I don't care. And they were like, no.

And so it's like, okay. And... So the investigators are literally like, well, the milk boy is just mistaken.

Yeah. Like no other explanation. He's just mistaken.

So there's that. That's going to come back. afterwards too.

I would think. Now later, the rumor does get out and people start talking about this and being like, wait, the milk boy saw her?

Wait a second. But then instead of being like, oh, maybe the police are just being corrupt.

And this is like just them pointing at Wallace with no reasoning.

They're like, no. I know what it is. I think that wasn't actually Julia. that answered the door that night at quarter to seven.

Okay. I think it was her sister-in-law, Amy. who was having that passionate affair with William.

You gotta give it up at some point. And was speaking to Alan dressed in Julia's clothing. who was murdered inside at that point.

Yeah, because William's naked and she's wearing Julia's clothes and it's just a fucking great time in here.

Alan, who has seen them every day and spoken to Mrs. Wallace every day.

Yep. knows what she looks like in fact said that that day She said, oh, do you have a little cough?

And he was like, I do have a little cough.

And she was like, me too. Get some rest.

And they were like, cool. Cute. So they had a moment of speaking.

Some people were like, OK, that's fine. We can explain that.

It was William dressed as Julia and putting on a woman's voice. okay mrs doubtfire he was a foot taller than her yep and also had a mustache yep But okay.

Who's to say? Yeah, who's to say? Not me.

Who's to say? Not Alan. She was on stilts.

It's fine. you know who's to say and he was really well like he did a really great job at just she was on stilts yeah she was on stilts She was really getting to that cleaning.

She was. She wanted to do the higher dusting areas.

She was like, I don't need the housekeeper anymore.

I can do this. this fire sarah she's fucking my husband but literally everybody's like yeah That makes sense.

So, now this is when things get... Really crazy.

See, you keep saying that, but they're really kind of just...

Keeping it crazy on the same level. So now 52 year old insurance salesman. who likes to tinker in his laboratory and has failing kidneys.

Stop. Is now not just having a passionate affair with his sister-in-law.

He's now bedding women all over town. Oh, of course.

He is just... He is a master of seduction.

He is... That William Wallace. He's ripping women away from their husband while he goes on his insurance route.

And he's just causing mayhem. Who knew? Everyone.

William Wallace. He's Fabio of 1931. William Wallace, young and getting it.

He's young and getting it. So now people were thinking... So he's at this point... you know he hasn't been arrested at this point he's been brought in a ton for interrogation wallace but they released him every time.

What they didn't tell him, but what he probably knew. was that they were tailing him this entire time.

They had 24-hour surveillance on him. Absolutely.

So people notice this like at local pubs.

They were like, yeah, we can see that this fucking detective.

You guys are not really keeping this low key.

You're not on the low low. here. But he... So people started being like, oh, he has... he has protection from like, or like surveillance.

So people were like, no, that's not surveillance.

He asked for that protection because all the husbands of all the women are trying to get together and they're trying to kill him.

So he needed 24 hour protection because he's such a Lothario.

These people needed stimulation. I'm going to post another picture of William Wallace.

He's, he's sure. You're like, all right.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if he's scooping in and snatching up your wives.

I don't know if he's one, but maybe he has a great personality.

He's smart. He likes to be naked. He loves to be naked.

So there's that. But yeah, so he just needs that 24-hour surveillance.

The town of Agde in France is famous for sun, sand, sea and sex.

But lately, life on the coast has taken a strange turn.

The town's mayor, a respected pillar of the community, has been arrested for corruption.

His wife claims he's been bewitched by a beautiful clairvoyant.

Then there's the mysterious phone calls that local people have been getting.

I am the Archangel Michael. The whole town has been thrown into chaos.

As the mayor is unable to carry out his duties, I would like to address you all.

Legal proceedings have been initiated. Join me, Anna Richardson, and journalist Leo Schick for The Mystic and the Mayor as we investigate a story of power, corruption, and magic.

Binge all episodes of The Mystic and the Mayor exclusively and ad-free right now on Wondery+.

Start your free trial in Apple Podcasts Spotify or the Wondery app.

It's insane. Yeah, it's far too much. So then people started talking about, well, he's an insurance agent.

He knows how to, he sells insurance. He probably put a hefty insurance policy on her, like life insurance policy on her, and he killed her to get it.

No. So the life insurance policy on her was only 20 pounds.

It covered barely the expense of the funeral and there was like nothing left after that.

It would have... There would have been literally no reason for that.

So that didn't work, but people hung on it anyway.

Then they pointed to him being a chess player. as reason for him being the murderer.

How? Suddenly he became a brilliant chess player.

So obviously only someone so brilliant at chess could do this because it takes planning.

It takes meticulous anticipating of events and risks and plotting out this whole thing and manipulation, which is what you do in chess.

But first, that's a huge leap. Yes. That's a huge leap to be like, you like chess, you murder people.

I've always said that chess and murder go hand in hand.

Obviously. Well, second, he sucked at chess.

Right. He was not that. He was not that.

Everyone at his club heard these rumors and were like, what?

Yeah, no. And they were like, he was not a brilliant chess player.

He just loved chess. He just liked it. And they were like, in fact, one of them was quoted as saying, quote, The murder of his wife apart, I think Wallace ought to be hanged for being such a bad Chesler.

That's awesome. To which I say, I want to hang out with these chess guys.

To which I say, too soon, buddy. That was so... dark and it's like i would have laughed so hard at that joke and we would have both been kicked out Like, I want to know who that guy was.

You know, that guy just had like a pint in front of him and was like, get the fuck out of my face.

That guy gets it. That guy gets it. He gets the gallows humor.

He understands. He do. I want to be like, are you an autopsy technician?

Do you work with dead people? I feel like you do.

You have that sense of humor. But yeah, so he sucked at chess.

So that whole brilliant manipulation, anticipating.

He was smart. Yeah. It had nothing to do with chess.

No. But I think they're just trying to make him into a character now.

He's become a character. They definitely are trying.

They're making him a character. So then, you know, that kind of is floating out there, but it's not enough.

So he likes science, right? So he's a mad scientist.

Jekyll and Hyde. That's what happens. You like scientists, you become, you poof, your hair goes crazy and you become a mad scientist.

It's always the way. So they were like, what is going on?

Now this, no basis to any of this. He just likes science.

He has a lab. Yeah. How dare he? Well, now people are like, I bet he's doing crazy ass experiments in that lab where he's torturing animals.

What? No basis. Nothing. Nothing to say this.

And they were like, I bet. I bet he just likes seeing animals suffer.

So he was like, this is fun. But then after a while he was like, I'm bored.

And he was like, I need to see humans suffer.

I don't really think that he was like a Jeffrey Dahmer-esque kind of guy.

Well, this also went hand in hand with him being like a sex addict rumor. because they're saying he concocted aphrodisiacs in his lab to entice these women into bed you know it's really funny i guarantee you he had like a dark chocolate bar in that room and they were like Oh, my God.

Sex fiend on the loose. Love. potion here.

What? They found like an oyster shell. He actually just liked nautical decor.

Oh, also an oyster shell. I really don't know.

But they were like, here he is just throwing these down everybody's throats, just getting them all worked up.

He's always got a couple oysters in his pocket it's not on a rock he's just throwing it down everyone's throat like let's get it on well and then on top of that they were like oh a laboratory probably an opium den i bet so he's probably tripping balls too we're like no no no that's actually Especially the medical examiner on the case.

Don't get confused. Is there a place where you guys stop?

Like, I don't know where... To great lengths.

Because why not? This should be called the great lengths murder.

Let's just make him, like, let's make him living in an opium den, torturing animals.

Just having naked women orgies everywhere.

Well, here's the thing. I'm like, where is he like having sex with all these women?

Apparently in their homes while he's dropping off their insurance policies.

Oh, okay. That's what everybody was going with.

Also, is Julia not going to hear him torturing small animals while she's literally home and sick all the time?

You would think so. Yeah. And he's pretty sick all the time.

What's he doing? with them when he's sick.

And also there's literally not one shred of of evidence of evidence for like this is total but it was being looked on as this is motive This is motive.

Yikes. Like, all that sex shit, that was motive.

Someone was, at the end of the day, the police were like, listen, some Someone's fucking someone they shouldn't be fucking and that's the reason that she died.

We don't care who it is. But it's happening.

Scandal. Which I love. That they just hung their hat on.

They're like, this is sex related. Some kind of penetration is happening that shouldn't be happening.

Wasn't she not even assaulted either? That's the other thing.

I'm like, what gives us motive that this was like sexually. motivated because they were like sex makes people angry so let's just do this like what It's so strange.

I think it was like the 1930s and they were like, the devil.

So then they were like, okay, it's an opium den, so there's that.

And then they were like, oh, you know what?

This kind of sounds occult-y and black magic-y.

So like, what? Maybe he's also a follower of Aleister Crowley.

Obviously. Does he have a book of Aleister Crowley's?

No. Does he have anything that would suggest that he is a follower of Aleister Crowley?

No. But he is though. But he is. He did write in one of his diaries that he and Julia have very different views on religion.

She was like a Catholic, went to church, and he was agnostic.

So he was like, I think that if I'm... Which I was like, I'm down for that.

Because he was like... We get along fine.

Like, she can believe what she believes.

I believe what I believe, which I was like, yay.

That's what you should do. I have friends from all different religions.

And he said, if I'm a good person... and I don't hurt people and I do my best and I live a good, like, you know, upstanding life. then I would hope that I would go the same place that she goes.

That's what he said. He was like, I just, that's what I hope.

Yeah. So. Maybe they looked at him being an agnostic and were like, he's obviously a Satanist.

Well, maybe back then. Because back then.

1930s. It could be, I don't know where else they drew this conclusion because Besides him being a scientist, maybe they were like, ah!

But yeah, so now he's a Satanist. He's into black magic.

And he's also... running an opium den, torturing small animals, fucking everyone in town.

And guess what else? He listens to Metallica.

And he does it naked. Before they exist.

And he does it naked. I'm picturing William Wallace just running around his insurance places with a Metallica shirt on.

Being like, 666, I love the devil. He's just like jamming to Enter Sandman.

So just picture with black nail polish on it.

I made my day. It's like. He comes home.

He's like, Julia! That's what he's doing in his lab on his lunch breaks, he goes up there and it's like a teenage boy going up to his room it's just like and he's just sitting there like looking through his microphone he's like let's get it it's just his moment of release which i think is rad Good for you, William.

This song slaps. So then the people... So now the people who think that William wasn't the guy were like, we need to contribute to the rumor mill as well.

Because they're like, we can't just let this be all Williams the bad guy.

Yeah. Now, when I think of the rumor mill also, I don't know if anybody, this is totally off topic, but it's funny.

Whatever. So hang in there. Any of you who watched the original Sabrina the Teenage Witch series, They did an episode where it was like she had to work in the rumor mill and it was an actual mill and I thought of it and I laughed so hard.

I remember that. And it also has, what's his name, from Clueless.

I'm going to look it up because I can't leave you guys like that.

Paul Rudd? No. Donald Faison. I don't know why I couldn't think of it.

I love him too. I don't know why I thought Paul Rudd was in Sabrina.

But he's like her boyfriend at the time, and they make up rumors.

And one of them is that Harvey is pregnant.

It's funny. I think you should watch it.

Oh my God, I forgot about that. But I just want to just give you a little love.

And then Harvey becomes pregnant. He does.

And then she like has no teeth. It's a lot.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So go ahead and watch it.

It's on Prime. So they said they said they were like, we got to start contributing to this because it can't be all about William.

So they were like, here's the thing. Let's go way far out of the box.

No, let's not go out of the box. Julia was having an affair with a married man.

And when he broke it off, she threatened to tell his wife and ruin his life.

That rhymes. So he killed her. So he paid her a weekly sum of money or however... many like weekly monthly whatever Julia actually had a sugar daddy just to keep her quiet like you gotta shut the fuck up And he asked her to just stop it all because he was like, I mean, this is becoming an issue for me.

They said the reason the cash box was robbed but nothing else was because that's where he thought the money that he had been paying her was stashed and he just wanted to recoup his I mean, that's not like crazy, except for the fact that I don't think she was having an affair.

I don't either. I mean, this held a bit of water because Wallace couldn't say how much. or where Julia's money was.

And he was actually shocked to find out she had 90 pounds in a bank account that he didn't know about.

So maybe there was a secret love for money.

I don't know. I don't know. She also had a secret pocket for money.

That's weird. There was a secret pocket.

So there could be a secret lover. Yeah. They also spoke with Gladys again and Beatty and Beatty.

And, or Beattie, I think it is. And Beattie was the captain at the chess club.

He was the one who got the call. I am the captain now.

He got the call. So they wanted to talk to them again to get another better idea of that whole phone call situation because it's very strange.

Yeah. Now, Gladys said the man sounded like an elderly gentleman and spoke very articulately, very refined.

Nothing out of the ordinary, just a very refined man.

Ochre. Now, Beattie described the voice as, quote, strong and gruff. ready of utterance, confident, definite in knowing what to say.

He definitely prepared that statement. And gruff.

That's not refined in Elderly Gentleman.

No, it's the exact opposite. So this could mean that the caller, Qualtro, actually disguised his voice for Beattie Perhaps because Beattie would recognize it as a voice that he knows if he used his real voice.

I am William Wallace. Maybe. Just to play devil's advocate.

Would be strange, but it's possible. Now, after a long 10 hours of being questioned on another day, Wallace is finally released.

He's probably so pissed off. So he runs into, at the tram station, his friends from chess club there.

And Beattie was there. Beattie saw him and he was like, hey, Wallace, what's going on?

And then he was like, before you say anything, please don't talk about... the murder or anything because i don't want you to say something that you like don't mean to and i I don't want to be more involved than I am.

So he was like, please, just like me. And so I guess William was like, okay, cool.

Can you be more specific on the timing of the Qualtra call the other night?

Like he was like, what time did he call? yeah he was like dude i really like i just told you i don't want to like do this but he's like He was like, I can't be more specific.

I just know it was like around that 7 o'clock time.

So... He was like, you can't get, like, anywhere else.

Like, you can't tell me, like, a specific... Can you just look at the caller ID?

Yeah. Just the caller ID in the 30s. And he kept saying to me, he's like, he kept pressing me, and he kept saying, it's really important...

Like, it seemed like he was trying to get it closer to seven.

What he didn't know was that a police officer was listening because he was being surveyed. surveilled and he was in the shadows and he told the rest of this information in to the rest of the police officers when he went back to the department.

So once they hear this, they're like, that's strange that he was like, you know, pushing for that.

So they confronted Wallace with it. And Wallace was like, yeah, I did.

I'm just stressed out. I just want this to be over.

Like I'm just trying to get more information.

I just want to move on to the actual grieving process.

And he's like, you know, the coroner's inquest is coming up.

I thought that could help with it if we had a better time.

And he actually says the quote when they said, like, why did you do that?

He said, quote, I have an idea, Wallace said.

And then he said... We all have ideas. It was indiscreet of me.

So they were like, what does that mean? So they told this, they took this as him being guilty and wanting to change Beattie's story. when really it just seems like he wanted to be more specific about the time.

Yeah. So... BD agreed that he didn't think he was trying to change his story.

He just was desperately trying to get...

Anything to help him. Yeah, he's trying to figure out not only who killed his wife, but...

Also get the cops off of his booty. That's the thing.

It's like he's just trying to do anything that's like, get me out of here because they're trying to pin this on me. me yeah yeah something so that of course it comes up later it's it's a whole thing he never should have said anything because it's like and especially like I was indiscreet.

They use that as like, oh, you're indiscreet.

So you think that like, and he's like, no, I meant like.

I'm not being smart about this like I should, you know, it just sucks.

So now they have an idea at this point that he's being weird.

He totally did it. The naked coat. All the things, the opium den, the sex parties, the like, woo woo, like all that.

But they're worried about this Alan Milk kid.

Because although they told him, forget about it, don't say anything.

He's going to keep talking. People are already hearing about it.

So January 25th, it was a Sunday. They bring Alan in.

Yeah. And... Later, at court, they would not be able to give any information about how long Alan was interviewed, who interviewed him, any of the details about this interview.

Because they paid him off. Any of the records and in trial.

Now, he's 14 years old. They just scared the shit Oh, yeah.

So in trial, they all didn't answer any of this.

They were like, nope. Not going to say a word about that.

All that came from this was suddenly... Alan was terrified and had changed his memory.

Yeah. Yeah. It's weird. He was like, oh, I was so wrong.

You know what it sounds like is Jesse from the West Memphis Three.

It's 100%. So, now, he said he, he was like, now I remember.

Now, before he had it quarter to seven. Now he has it that he looked at the clock face on Holy Trinity Church and it was glowing, he remembers it perfectly.

And he said, when I looked at it, it was right before I went to the Wallace's home.

And it was 625, not quarter to seven. So it was 625.

All right. So they did this entire retracing and recreation of this route with him.

Cute. They used a stopwatch... and they wanted to see exactly how long it would take, when he would get to the house, how long he would talk to them for.

They, after doing this, came to the conclusion that he arrived to give the milk to Mrs. Wallace at 6.31. not quarter to seven.

Okay. And that Wallace could only have left the house at the very latest at 649.

So according to this test, he had 18 minutes To kill her, brutally clean, brutally kill her, clean up, brutally clean up, brutally clean up.

Clean the fuck up. I want you to clean your room and I want you to do it brutally.

I'm going to say that. So then he also had to steal from himself by ripping the cabinet door off.

Go upstairs, put some blood on that money.

Wash himself completely. And that's it.

But they were like, yep, that's it. 18, that's all he needs.

Yeah. That proves it right there. Yeah. That's it.

It takes me like 18 minutes to get out of fucking bed in the morning.

So you know what they took from this? February 2nd at 7pm, two weeks after the murder, they arrested William Wallace at Amy's flat for the murder of his wife.

Wow. What about- Such a bullshit. And when they arrested him, he said, what can I say in answer to a charge of which I'm absolutely innocent?

I do think he's innocent. I don't think he did it.

100% I think he's innocent. Yeah, this is bullshit.

Now, we're gonna end. You suck! In one second, because remember I told you about Richard Gordon Perry and how he had gone to that mechanic shop?

Well, now William Wallace is arrested. Right.

Remember, his boss was like, you go to the fucking police.

Well, John Parks was like. Okay, so he runs to the police.

I'm making a running motion. I'm doing it.

She is. She is. He runs to the police and he's like, I have a bombshell.

I have Richard Gordon Ramsay. There's a baseball glove soaked in blood the same night. that he tells you he has an alibi.

What are you going to do about it? They don't care.

And they were like... Absolutely nothing.

And that was it. They never spoke about it again.

So you made me hold on to that for this entire fucking episode.

You know what? I was I almost said, oh, no, I told you you sucked like preemptively.

Nope, you suck. I'm mad at you. So that's where we're going to end for part two because there's an entire trial that gets...

Crazy. Crazy. And even more rumors. You don't say.

That's part two of the impossible murder of Julia Wallace.

In part three, William has a sex dungeon.

And like I told you, you're gonna get part three much sooner than this one, so...

Hang tight. Look out for that, brother. I don't really know.

And you know tell us what you're thinking as like do you think you did it?

Do you think he didn't? I think he did not.

150% I think he did not. Yeah, I don't think he did at all.

I don't know who did though. Yeah, that's the problem here.

I mean maybe that guy with the bloody baby.

Well, one of the problems is they didn't look for any other suspects.

None. So it's like we have nothing to go on.

Well, and like you said, there was all these burglaries going on.

Exactly. It could have just been like a burglary gone wrong-ish.

Maybe. But it didn't really look like that.

Yeah, it's strange. I don't fucking know.

But in the meantime, while you're waiting for part three, keep listening to other episodes.

Yeah. Do that. And we hope you keep it weak. but that's so weird that any of this happens and you just spread rumors every single day of your life even though none of them have any substance at all and definitely just don't do that, bye.

Bye. Thank you. If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

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Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.

[줄리아 월리스의 불가능한 살인 사건: 미스터리와 추측의 소용돌이 (파트 2)]-[Episode 223: The Mysterious Murder of Julia Wallace Part 2]

📋 Summary

줄리아 월리스의 불가능한 살인 사건: 증거인가, 소문인가?

수사의 초기 오류와 편향

리처드 고든 페리(Richard Gordon Perry)라는 의문점

윌리엄 월리스를 향한 근거 없는 소문들

18분의 마법: 짜 맞추기식 수사

결론 없는 미스터리

🎯Key Sentences

📝Key Phrases

📖 Transcript