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Hey weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Alayna. And this is Morbid.
It sure is. I never know. That's just... Just yeeted?
Just slammed. filter on her microphone yeah you know what it is normally I have it like there's like a little wire on it that comes up but yeah Mine is facing down and it usually comes up and over.
It really threw it for a loop. A loop. Really, really Mercury retrograded you right after.
Oh my god, but Mercury retrograde is over.
Couldn't be happier. See ya! wouldn't want to be in retrograde yeah you know when the next fucking mercury retrograde is though when the fuck is it It's during my birthday.
Hate that for you. Yeah, but you know what?
A Gemini will stay shining. That's true.
Fuck them all. There you go. Yeah. I can't wait for my birthday.
Oh, God. We're not even close. Yeah, we are.
We're not even close. It's like three months away.
January, February, March. I'm saying it's March already.
April, May, June. And it's like right at the beginning of June.
So basically it's only two months. There you go, everybody.
Keep your countdowns going. What are you gonna get me?
You know what I'm gonna get you? No. Part three of Willie Pictures.
I don't want that. I would like the gift receipt for that, please.
Can't have it. Can't have it, can't give it back.
No, I actually do want that, so let's get it.
Well... Today's episode is going to be ad free and it's going to be shorter because this is just kind of a wrap up.
I didn't want to like, you know, rush all this at the end of part two, and I just wanted to give like one of those fun little clip hangers.
It's fun. And it's fun to get an ad-free episode because, you know, ads.
Ads schmads. This is a fucking carnival.
It is fun. It's just a carnival. Willy Willy fun time.
But one thing I just wanted to say before I start is that I'm Part two, I was telling everybody, please go read this book on the farm because it's so good.
Oh my goodness, the author is... phenomenal and extraordinary Stevie Cameron.
And I said, he, it's actually a woman. And a couple of our listeners actually pointed out, and then I also just looked back into it and was like, oh.
I don't know why my... I think I just, like, automatically said he.
I don't know why. But, yeah, it's a woman, Stevie Cameron, and she is... phenomenal, insanely talented, and a very well-known journalist in Canada.
I love that. Reminds me of Stevie Nicks.
There you go. Stevie's a great name. And you know what?
Go read On the Farm. I'm still telling you that.
What should we read? It's amazing the amount of stuff you are going to get from this book that I couldn't even think of. fit in here that I didn't even want.
I was like you gotta go read the book. Did you get it on your kindle cloud reader?
Yes I did. Could you share it with me? I can.
All right. And you know what? I have the weirdest Kindle Cloud library.
Oh, same. Some of mine are children's books because when we were separated, I bought like a bunch of Kindle books to read to your kids.
Then I realized it would not work via FaceTime because I was on the FaceTime.
Yeah, it didn't work, but it was a nice thought. yeah and it's nice to sprinkle those in yeah so when we left you last time The police had come to Willie Pickton's farm.
They had already found IDs clothing, they had found fuzzy handcuffs, one being tested positive for blood.
They found zip ties. They found dildos. They found a box full of kitchen knives next to his bed.
They found papers and objects and bills and all other things with the missing women's names on them.
And they found a gun with a dildo on it.
They found a gun with a dildo stretched over the barrel!
That's not okay. That's so much! They also found this weird glass jar with a bunch of hair stuff in it.
I mean, they found, and the thing that was really crucial was that inhaler of cerulean And so they were able to get the bigger search warrant to come back on the property.
This search became the biggest crime scene, like investigation and search and excavation at one point. in Canada's history.
Oh, I believe it. That farm is huge. It is unbelievable.
The pictures. I urge you to Google pictures of the Picton Farm just so you can really get a feel for one, how terrifying this place was.
Two, how disgusting. how disgusting this place was.
Double yeah. And three, how massive it is.
It's huge. And then I think of these women who are being led to this farm when you arrive there?
It must be... I mean, walking into that place, every picture I saw I was like, I can't imagine getting out of a car and walking into that.
I'm being like, this is not gonna end well.
You have to nope right the fuck out of there.
But it's like they were already in such a bad position.
It sucks. Right. Now, this whole investigation ended up costing $70 million.
Are you kidding? Yes. Holy shit. And they had to go like bit by bit.
It took years. Wow. And to identify these women...
Many of them remain unidentified. They were in bits and pieces.
There was not one full body found on this farm.
You're kidding. Yeah, they were all in pieces.
They started with Willie's trailer because that was where they were really finding all the stuff.
That's where they I figured they would find more.
They found Heather Bottomsley's book. many of her items like they found notebooks of hers they found clothes ids All kinds of stuff with her name on them.
They also found syringes filled with antifreeze.
No. So he was not kidding when he said that.
He was not kidding. And one of the police officers actually on scene...
It was a female police officer and she had worked on a farm.
She lived and worked on a farm currently while they were doing this.
Oh, shit. So obviously to her walking into because this is not normal.
No. Like we we talked in like part two how. you know, that bolt gun, the pneumatic bolt gun is actually something that is used and it's very normal, but they, willie wasn't using proper things like he wasn't you know he was using like a legit nail gun Yeah, which I know like a lot of our listeners who said like they worked on farms or grew up on farms or just know. that that Balkan is known as a very normal thing to do.
Right. But that aside, the way he was keeping these animals, the way he was treating them, the way he was slaughtering them, the way he was keeping them after slaughter, all of it was wrong.
I hate that so much. If there's one thing that honestly like sometimes makes me angrier than like murder murder is animal cruelty.
Animal cruelty... like hurts me in a different part of my soul because you and I say it all the time animals are only here like especially like dogs and cats and stuff like They're here to like make you happy.
Exactly. And it's like you choose to have an animal.
Right. Like, yeah, nobody made you take it.
Like, you actively had to go get an animal and bring it into your life.
Just treat it well. In most cases. Yeah, like just treat it well.
You know, like it seems like one of those things like just, you know.
It loves you. I know. There's so many things that you've said during this case that made me just want to go get my cats.
I know right and like kiss them and the thing with this is like there are so many farms and you know places like this where they do it correctly, like the correct way.
Like, you know, everybody has different opinions about like meat eating and veganism and all that stuff.
I'm not going to get into that because everyone Everyone has their own thoughts on that.
Yes. I'm not going to go into what I think either.
I think that there's so many farmers who are doing these things in correct ways.
In the most humane ways. And it's like, this makes it look crazy.
And that sucks because I'm sure a lot of farmers in Canada were like, No.
It's not all farms. This is not what we do.
We do this in the right way. You don't have to worry about our meat.
Well, and it's sad because like you said, at one point they had like 700 pigs on that farm.
So I can only imagine what those 700 pigs went through.
Yeah, which I guess 700 pigs on a farm like this, which again, thank you to our listeners.
Oh, were they like, it's not that much? They were like, actually, that's like...
That's a big, that's a nice big pig farm.
Like that's very normal, but. Obviously, in this case, they were being treated horrifically.
And they were not taken care of. And it's just really sad.
Because you do see these other farms where they're really taken care of.
They devote their entire lives to taking care of these animals.
Because realistically, that should be why you have a farm.
Yeah, it's just a bummer. It makes, you know, it made farmers look bad and that's not cool.
Because we love farmers. Yeah, they're the best.
Hello to all our farmer listeners. Hello, Farmer John.
You guys have been awesome, the people that have reached out and been like, I just want to let you know what slopping is and let you know about that pneumatic bulk gun.
Somebody tell me on Twitter that they're going to slop their cats from now on.
And I want to steal that from them. It is.
It's just a fun thing to say. Actually, when I get home, because obviously I'm not home right now, I'm gonna be like, Drew, did you slop the cats?
Did you slop the cats? And he's gonna be like, Drew's going to be like, get the fuck out.
He's going to be like, can you come back to where you went from?
Yeah, he's going to be like, can you go back to where you came from?
From whence you came. I have coffee next to me and it has not quite kicked in.
No, not yet. At 5 p.m. But yeah, so this one police officer that I was mentioning that lived on a farm herself, grew up on one, uh, She was very interested in seeing these animals.
She was like, I have to know what's going on here.
And when she went into the slaughterhouse where, you know, Willy really enjoyed his She found, and just like fair warning, talking about like animal cruelty, basically.
Yeah. She found... terrible condition. She found dead pigs.
She found pigs that were sick and like stacked on top of each other, just laying there sick and dying.
Why do you do that? Why? She found pigs with like infections on their hooves and like...
All this other, like just in terrible, terrible, one of them had just given birth to like a litter of piglets. and the piglets had like rolled down a hill in the mud and they were dead.
All of them. And one of the dogs on the property was like playing with one.
It was just, it was, this was literal. these poor i mean these poor victims these poor investigate everybody who had to witness this It just sounds like it's hell on a farm.
It truly like this is hell farm. Like this is what you would think of with like a horror movie version of a farm.
It sounds like a Shudder special. And I guess they did call in like vets and stuff and they tried to like save some.
Some of them, they did euthanize a few because they just couldn't save them.
Yeah. did try to do their best to try to get some and they would they like got some of them and like put them in other places like rehabilitate try to rehabilitate Well, and like we said in part one or two, pigs are one of the smartest animals on the planet.
Oh, yeah. They knew what was happening. happening.
And that's the thing. And this woman who was one of the investigators, I couldn't find her name, but She was so upset about it that she brought some with her back to her farm.
I would have done that. She went and got them food from her farm and was giving them like good food, like, that you're supposed to feed pigs.
Because God only knows what he was feeding them.
It was just so sad. That's like the other side of this is like, obviously, it's human beings.
That's what we concentrate on. But it's like, there's also this whole awful other side of like, he wasn't just abusing people.
He was also abusing the animals on his farm and it's awful.
He was a horribly rounded asshole. Yeah, just the worst kind of humanity that you could see.
Um, so they found, one thing they found a ton of is just, like, weird sex toys in Willy's trailer, which, like...
It makes me feel some type of way because when you look at them, you're like, ew.
I just like, why do you need that many? Yeah, it's just... When it's in this situation, it just...
Because that's a normal situation. You're like, live your life.
We know that like 99.9% of the people that went there, it was not consent. they were yeah and they were not leaving so right there was and like i think we had said in part two that There were walls that were clearly stained with blood that had been washed off.
A ton of the mattresses were soaked with dark fluid, like blood and other things.
They found more women's clothing, they found purses, they found jewelry, makeup, just everywhere.
You know what was weird, and I think I posted the picture for part two, outside of his trailer he had almost like a deck kind of and there was just a shit ton of office chairs on the deck for no reason.
You just needed them. It was bizarre. You never know.
When your office chair starts to squeak Let's go and get another one.
Fuck the WD-40. Just get that one. That's all that was.
I don't know what you're talking about. But...
So back in the slaughterhouse when they finally cleaned it up with all the you know, poor infected and suffering animals in there, they started looking around in there.
What they found was they found the hooks in the slaughterhouse where he would hang the pigs.
They found like little pieces of human skin on those hooks.
Oh my god. gosh like still there just still there uh they also would find like they found like little pieces of human like not just skin on there like he had just left actual tissue and flesh and whatever muscle whatever else was in there so it was just right out in the open um And they used, according to the New York Times, they used and I quote, earthmovers, backhoes, payloaders, and conveyor belts to move and shift and sift tons of topsoil as investigators culled samples of torn clothing, fingernails and tiny body pieces for storage in a refrigerated trailer.
Oh, wow. So they had to bring all these different machines in to literally dig up the soil just so they could find little pieces of victims.
Just like fragments. Like horrific. And then they have to piece all this together.
And like at that point, how do you, because like you said, they had so much trouble identifying people because at that point, how do you?
Oh, yeah. And trust actually, perfect question because we're going to get into that right now.
Cool. So with complete certainty, they could finally, after everything, after all of this excavation, I mean years, I was literally just going to say, how long did it take?
They could identify the remains of only 27 victims, which is quite a lot.
But when compared to what he has done, what we think he has done, it's not a lot.
There's definitely many more remains on this farm that are unidentified.
Do they ever plan to go back and try to look for more or do they think they got everything they could?
I think they got as much as they could. I'm sure there's plenty more.
Yeah. Because it's just the massive surface area, I think, is just in the way that...
Unfortunately, the way he disposed of these bodies and the way that he dismembered and And we'll talk a little bit more about that.
But I think we're never going to find everything.
Because most of it is gone. Unfortunately, he lived in like the quote unquote perfect place to carry out his evil shit.
He lived in the perfect place and he had the perfect idea.
Like, he really did, unfortunately. As fucked up as it is.
He had an evil idea that worked, and unfortunately, that sucks.
Right. But what investigators started doing was they started asking families of missing women in the area like who had been missing forever, all the missing women. to please come forward and give their DNA so they could try to do familial DNA comparisons.
It did work a little bit, but... it was unfortunate because sometimes, you know, some of them weren't in touch with their family.
Some of them they'd, couldn't figure out who their family was and some of them the family had moved away and they or the family wasn't in the area so they couldn't give their DNA.
It just, it became an issue. And then I guess in 2000, in the year of 2000, so when this was all going on, Canada didn't have a missing person's familial DNA database.
I mean, it's still pretty knew yeah so if you like if you reported a missing person that was your family member you couldn't give your DNA to add to a database.
If that was the case, which of course, you know, this technology all came forward at not the perfect time And if you came forward, you know, or if you found someone missing, you had nothing if you didn't have you know, their DNA, you couldn't really compare too much.
Right. If you just got this unknown DNA, you were like, well, we don't know what this is.
Right, because we have nothing to compare it to.
Right. But obviously they're changing that now.
Um, but during the search the investigators had obviously, like we said, found Many slaughtered pigs.
They were able to see in the freezers where he kept the meat. how he did it.
People told him how he did it. They were able to see from body parts how he was doing it.
This is important because he used the same techniques on women. and Sergeant Ross Spenard was one of the investigators on scene, and he also went to the autopsy of Serena Abbott, way, and she's the one that left the inhaler there.
He said the injuries... to her and the injuries to a pig that he found there were exactly the same. meaning her wrists and her ankles had been broken in the same way that they had broken a pig's hock to hang it on a hook.
Oh my. which basically left the ankle of the pig like the hawk hanging by like tendons that's it oh wow and that's what he did to these women Do they know if he did it while they were still alive?
They don't because they don't have enough...
And he just never talked? They don't have a complete body.
They don't have any... It's pieces. All they have is just bits and pieces.
So that's all they're going with. It's horrific.
And do you remember... when, I don't remember if it's part one or two, probably part two, we were talking about Lynn.
The girl who was on the farm a lot and she was the one who happened to see something.
And she knew that she got that call and she was like, they were planning to kill me.
Exactly. And she had seen... somebody hanging on a hook according and she said fat was yellow exactly and she kind of was using that to kind of get money out of him for a while yeah Not really awesome.
There was another story I'd mentioned briefly where she had seen on like one of the freezers once that it was like covered on top of the freezers with, like, a drape of some sort.
Mm-hmm. And then she was like, oh, that's weird.
And she went to walk over to it. And Willie just looked at her and shook his head silently.
And she just. That was it. Like, hello, ominous.
Well, that freezer, they were able to find it was draped with stuff, and underneath it...
There were buckets, and in those buckets were victims' body parts.
Oh. Just sitting on a freezer. Yep. Now to get to that freezer in the slaughterhouse, it took them a day and a half to clear a path to it. oh that's just foul yep that's how insane it was in this farm a day and a half to get to a freezer that's nuts.
Yeah. Now the rest of Serena Abbotsway's remains and Angela Joe's berries remains were found in those buckets on top of the freezer and Serena's hands and feet were found inside her skull.
What? Yep. Now, when another investigator, Sergeant Tim Slay, opened the freezer, he found a human head.
He just opened the freezer. And found a human head.
I can't imagine the people just, like, retching on the sidelines during this.
Can you imagine? Like, this is the worst, like... living horror film because you just have no idea what you're gonna find every single place anywhere you open yeah anywhere you look anything you pick up, you're gonna find stuff underneath it.
This is literally a body farm. It literally is an actual body farm.
It's horrific. They also found inside the pig sty where like the pig slop is.
Yeah. Like they're everything. They found Brenda Wolf's jawbone with a tooth still attached with a filling in it.
Oh, wow. And the other pieces of bones. And I wonder if that's why the pigs didn't eat that specific tooth because it had the filling.
Maybe. That's wild. It was like part of her mandible too.
Oh, wow. Yeah. So like I said, they found no complete remains, just pieces.
There were hair. teeth i mean pieces of flesh bone fingernails just everything this is one of the craziest cases I have ever heard of.
It's unreal. And what they figured out was that he likely killed his victims.
Then he dismembered them in some way. Probably the same way he would slaughter an animal, which he was pretty upfront about.
And then he hangs the victims on his giant hook to take the pieces he needs. and he feeds the rest of them into a meat grinder.
And then he it's. And then you said like what he couldn't dispose of, he would feed to the pigs.
He would feed what he thought was, you know, unusable. he would feed to the pigs, and then the rest of what he would find unusable, the things the pigs wouldn't eat, hair, you know, I don't know, other pieces of bone.
Sure. I know hair is something they're not. too fond of, so that was definitely part of it.
That's what he would take to the rendering plant.
He'd put hair in the meat with the rendering plant?
Yeah. Because that is what rendering plants take. from animals.
They take hair, feathers Things that you can't really use in food or anything like that.
And they render those down to gelatin. Gotcha, gotcha.
So not only is there the possibility that meat on his farm, or possibility, I say, pretty assurance that the meat on his farm was tainted with human remains.
But now the rendering plants most definitely unknowingly used the hair and bones He mixed in with his animal parts to probably render down to gelatin and could be in different products like makeup.
Or candy. Or jello. Or jello. Like straight up jello.
Like a lip gloss or something. wow isn't that horrific to think about that's fucked and these victims families This, the horror never ends.
Like these poor people, they have to sit there and I would be passing.
I'd be passing a lollipop and thinking like, I'm just thinking about it.
How would you ever eat any kind of meat again or put makeup on again?
You just can't ever. Just lay down and go to sleep.
You know what I mean? Like, it never becomes something that you could just live with.
It's like you're always... In it. Because it gets more and more horrific as it goes.
Because anything you do reminds you of the fact that...
It just gets worse and worse. It does. It's horrible.
And... Anthropologists were actually called in and forensic experts, of course, because there were so many bones. and most of the things they were finding were so decayed and rotted and disarticulated that they needed help and they were trying to get DNA off of these tiny little things.
Some of them they couldn't get DNA off of.
Some of them they got DNA but it was like they couldn't really do much with it.
It's just these poor victims and these poor victims' families.
I just feel really bad. But luckily in February 22nd, 2002, Willie was arrested.
He was first arrested on two charges of first-degree murder and four more after that.
He was charged with the whole 26 counts, but they really wanted to focus on those six that they knew were really solid.
This was super controversial, of course, because there's many more than six, and those families were like, I would like my... justice to be served.
But from a judicial standpoint. But they were looking at it like, we know these are rock solid. why are we going to risk it kind of thing.
That's what they were thinking. Which I understand why the families were like, really?
But I also understand why. Yeah, I can totally see both sides.
Yeah, exactly. Now in 2004, this is when it was revealed to the public in Canada.
Oh my God. that there may have been human remains in the meat sold from the Picton farm.
Obviously, they had to tell them that, but like...
I could have gone my whole life if I lived in Canada without knowing that.
Yep. And they said, so it's not proven, but it's also not disproven.
And a health official said it was entirely possible that there was.
He actually said, quote, it's very disturbing to think about, but there is the possibility of some cross contamination. but the degree of it, when or how much, we really don't know.
I think if we could rule it out, we would definitely like to.
But how can you? Well, what they did was they put out an official alert to everyone.
Anyone who had purchased meat from the Picton farm was asked to come forward if they still had the meat to bring it to them.
Yeah. The problem here is people were like, Yeah, I bought a pig from them like seven years ago.
I don't have that pig anymore. Right. Like this does not help me.
No. you know they did try I don't know if anyone came forward to it with it there was no update on that but I mean, can you imagine?
I would imagine the rendering plants maybe didn't want to come forward if they had bought meat from them.
Well, no, the rendering plants didn't buy meat from them because they don't buy meat.
They buy the leftovers. But like the people, you know what I mean?
People. These are just civilian people who had bought meat to cook for their families.
Oh shit. Like that's what these people were.
Maybe they were just like, I don't want to know.
I think most people were like, I don't have the meat anymore.
Yeah. That was probably... It was so long ago.
Yeah, I'm not going to keep meat for that long.
And a lot of people too, like you said, probably were like, I don't know.
I don't want to know that. Yeah. I'm good.
But I'm going to go ahead and get rid of that meat.
Yeah, we're going to just get rid of that and just move on with our lives.
So here's the rub for Willy. Here's Willy and his lack of functioning neurons.
So he was placed in a jail cell and he was placed in there with one other cellmate.
That cellmate was actually an undercover police officer.
Love it. That poor man that had to sit in a fucking cell. with Willie Pickton.
And you know what? He killed it. I'll give it to him.
He probably stinks so bad. I know. And he looked like he did.
So they were trying to get anything they could just to help identify these other victims, you know, see if he said anything. hoping his dumb ass would brag and just slip to this guy.
Yeah. Uh, because people who knew Willie, like I think I mentioned it in one of the parts, was that he would get kind of overly sherry and like he would just kind of say something and then be like, oops, remember when he did that to like the kid that was living on the farm and i was like oh i should beat the shit out of him oh i should have him beaten within an inch of his life and have him move because i said too much Now, even if it's a stranger, and of course now he's going to feel like he doesn't have a lot to lose, so he's just probably going to do it.
Now, in this video, you can see it online.
We'll try to post the link to the YouTube of it because there's like just one, a YouTube I can't remember exactly whose it is that has like the entire video.
And he's wearing like a white t-shirt and he's just sitting there disgusted. and greasy and he's eating something like food on like a plate.
And the entire time he's talking about this, he is eating this the whole time.
And he's like scraping every last bit of this food off this plate.
And it's like what they're talking about and him sitting there eating No, that's foul.
That does not compute. It's just so much.
Willie picked in 100%. 100% talks with his mouth swirled.
Oh, 100%. I guarantee it. 100%. Okay, so what they discovered through this little excursion was that Picton thought It was great that he was in the limelight.
He loved it. What a night. What an absolute jackass.
He considered himself famous. He was totally into the attention.
He was very excited to be around what he thought was another criminal because he was like, cool, we're like in the same club now.
And he wanted to brag. Yeah. Like he wanted to talk about it.
So he just spilled the entire beans. He started talking all about it.
He talked about that he, how he had committed each crime. how he had kept all the IDs and all the personal effects of people.
He also said, quote, I got a murder charge on me. and 48 more.
48 more to come. Whoopee! Are you Yep. He said whoopee.
And he said he had murdered 49 women and was annoyed because he got arrested before he could hit 50.
He actually said this. How do you? I just don't understand.
Like, how is that your life goal? And let me give you a couple quotes from it, just so you can really get the idea.
Oh, boy. So when the undercover cop asked him what they had on him, they were like, He was like, what?
And I love this undercover cop trying to be a criminal because he just says fucking. like in the weirdest places like he'll be like well what do they what do they have on you fucking Like he just puts it in like a place.
I'm like, I don't even know how Lily popped this.
What the fuck can they have on you? I feel like Willie should have been like, are you okay, sir?
Yeah, but think of Willie's company that he helped.
But it's just so funny because he just puts fucking like I understand like using that word to try to like sound tough.
Yeah. You're in that situation because like. what else are you gonna do yeah but he puts it in very strange places and i'm not used to saying it all the time it's really funny He should have took a note out of our book.
He should have. We'll help you. We'll help you put it in the right spots.
But when he asked him what he had on him, Willie just replied, DNA.
So already he's like, there's DNA on my farm.
Like, he's already like, yep, yikes. And the officer said at one point, I find the best way to fucking dispose of something is fucking take it to the ocean.
And Willy said, oh, yeah? And then he responded, oh, fuck.
Do you know what the fucking ocean does to things?
There ain't much left. That's what the undercover cop said.
You can see how. Yeah, it's a lot. Well, Willie responded to something like, let me take it down from like, that's funny that that cop said that to...
Oh, this chills my bones. So he said, the cop said, oh, fuck, do you know what the fucking ocean does to things?
There ain't much left. Willie responded, I did better than that.
Wow. And when you watch this video, you're like, Because you know what he did.
Oh, like, it's just like, I did better than that.
That's I did better than the ocean can do.
And it's like, and he did. That's what's even sadder.
Well, that's the thing. You destroyed these women in every single way that you could.
That's what makes that chill run through your entire body.
It gave me literal chills. Ugh. And so they had the officer respond to him like, what?
Huh? What? What the fucking did you do? What'd you do?
Well, Willie gets up with his like tray, his little plate of slop, whatever the hell he's eating, walks over to the guy.
And sits super close to him. Oh, no, no.
Which I was like, I cannot. Get away from me.
So this officer's like, what? What do you mean?
What do you mean? And he literally just whispers right into his face, a rendering plant. oh shit.
And he told him there wasn't much left after that, but he said, unfortunately, I got slop at the end wow and that was his thing was he said I got sloppy that's why I got caught Willie, you were born sloppy.
I was just going to say, honey, you came out sloppy.
You came out the womb straight sloppy. You're...
Soul is sloppy. It's like you are stamped with a sloppy stamp.
Your aura is literally brown. You're sloppy.
And not Amber. Well, then he said, that's why I got sloppy.
I wanted to hit the big 5-0. And he said, yeah.
I just don't. I can't wrap my brain around that.
Talking about it like it's a. baseball stat right that's what's like killing me is like the big 5-0 that's not the big 5-0 that's 49 women.
Human lives. Like, that's crazy. Who had people who love them and care about them and miss them.
49 women. And that's the big five. And you're talking about it the big 5-0.
I wish I got that. That's so messed up. So then he said I think most of them based on the fucking evidence I think I'm nailed to the cross.
But if that happens, there will be about 15 other people who are going to go down.
Fuck. Some will go down the tank. So now he's saying there's about 15 other people that are also going to go down.
So now I'm like, Yeah. What was happening out here?
That's the thing because I definitely...
I know Willie obviously carried out a lot of this on his own.
Oh, I believe he got the 49. Absolutely.
For sure. But I think other people were involved.
Well, I think there's more remains out there than they're going to be able to put to just 49 people.
And think of the criminals that were on this farm.
But it's like, then you think about it and you're like, But what do we not know? like, there were multiple murderers just torturing and slaughtering women out there?
Like... It is like you said in the beginning, it is this stuff straight out of like a Rob Zombie film.
Yeah, it's like Rob Zombie would be like, whoa, pull back on this one.
He'd be like, that's a lot. It's just so much.
It's like the Firefly family. Well, then he started...
It truly reminds me of House of a Thousand Corpses, when in the beginning, of Devil's Rejects, which I love Rob Zombie films, like that's just who I am as a person. but the devil's rejects films when they're doing like the news report and they're saying like this many bodies were found in the basement, this many bodies were found in a freezer, pieces of bodies here and there and blah, blah, blah.
It's exactly that. Oh man. It's exactly that.
And I don't know what year that came out.
I was just going to say. Maybe he got some kind of, I dare to say, inspiration.
But I wonder if he looked at this case and was like, whoa, that's the shit out of horror films.
I mean, anybody in their right mind would say that.
Rob! Are you listening? Sir Zombie? Sir Zombie, can you please send us a quick note?
Just send us a Gmail real quick. Yo, bitch, imagine if he sent us a quick note.
No, mama would kill over it. That would go very well.
Rob Zombie always reminds me of our live show in New York.
But either way. So, yeah. So he finished his whole thing, this whole thought.
By saying, I said they were my friends. I thought they were my fucking friends.
Because then he goes into saying how all his friends started ratting him out.
Well, yeah, because Scott Chubb was like...
And like that guy Andy came forward and like a few other people.
So now he's sitting there being like, my friend sold me out.
And it's like. Did he know... What was the woman who he was, like, sisters with?
Was her name Linda? Lisa. Lisa. Yeah. Um...
Did he know that she had any kind of involvement?
He didn't mention that, but I'm sure he probably got word of it, I'm assuming.
He said, and this is when he started getting into the I'm famous thing and whoop-a-boop.
Yeah, like you're not though. He said that he wanted to be bigger than those serial killers in the States.
And if he had got to 50, he said he would be bigger than them.
Wow. And then he said, which is not a competition.
I have to beat the United States. We're like, you don't know.
It's like, don't. No one ever aspires to be like us, especially not Canadians.
Don't be that way. No. Definitely not in that way.
Just keep it Canadian. We don't want anyone trying to beat those.
We're not proud of those records. No, it's not something you want to do. and then he turned to him and like because the officer was like yeah you're right like you would be like the bigger if you hit 50.
And then he turns to him and says his record was like, what, 42, he says?
And he doesn't say who, and then I was like, I wonder if he's talking about Gary Ridgway, because it was around the same time, and it was also... very similar, the, like, M.O. here.
Like, not in the way he killed women, but, like, that he was targeting sex workers.
And, you know, he was trying to find, quote unquote, less dead people so he could do as many as possible.
So Willie wanted to do the same thing. I imagine he was, but it's like he's very wrong with that one because Gary Ridgway confessed to 71.
Yeah. And they... convicted him of 49, I believe, so they're right on par.
Wow. But that was strange that he was like, I want to be like him because...
Do you think Gary Ridgway actually killed 71 people?
You know how they get to prison and they're like, I killed like a million.
I feel like that one might be a possibility.
Because he was choosing people that he felt he could hide for a long time.
Yeah. And I think in his case, he did find a lot of people who weren't close to their family or didn't have ties or connections and i think i think there is like more out there at 71 i don't know But, like, could be close.
I wouldn't be surprised with him. He's a crazy dude.
Gotcha. We'll cover him eventually. Trust me.
He's wild. So all in all, there was 200,000 DNA samples collected.
Wow. 600,000 exhibits from the crime scene.
And again, $70 million it cost. Jesus. Yeah.
And I think I had mentioned it before that it was the crown who decided that they were only going to go after Willie for like the six counts of murder instead of the entire thing.
Yeah. Because they really felt like those were solid, so they didn't want to risk it.
Yeah, yeah. But... obviously people were pissed.
Now, I'm gonna, because he was only nailed for those six, I want to name all the... women here really quick, just so, you know, pay respect to everybody.
We have Serena Abbotsway. Mona Lee Wilson, Andrea Joesbury, Brenda Ann Wolfe, Marie Lee Frey, Georgina Faith Pappin, Let's see, Jacqueline Michelle McDonald, Diane Rosemary Rock, Heather Kathleen Bottomley,
Jennifer Lynn Firminger, Helen May Hallmark, Patricia Rose Johnson, Heather Chinnick, Tanya Holick, Sherry Irving Inga Monique Hall Tiffany Drew Sarah DeVries Cynthia Felix, Angela Rebecca Jardine, Diana Melnick,
They had a Jane Doe that they did attribute to him, but they since pulled back on that and said that they don't think it was him.
There was also Deborah Lynn Jones, Wendy Crawford, Carrie Kosky, Andra Faye Borhaven, and Kara Louise Ellis, a.k.a.
Nikki. Gotcha. So when you read them out loud like that, it's...
I just counted it on my hands as you were doing it.
Yeah. That's insane. It's... It's a lot.
Which is so sad. And then the thing is, like, those are the 26 that you read out loud. imagine if you read the full 49 out loud exactly that's it's those are the ones that they can identify Those are the bodies that they could identify from pieces.
Well, and then think of the families that most likely know that he did this to their daughter, but they don't have that final piece of like, yes, he did. if they don't get that closure.
That's the thing. There were so many family members who said they would wait outside this farm while they were doing the investigation being like I just need to know of my daughter, my sister, my cousin, my best friend, my girlfriend, my friend, just... if someone, they said, I need to know if they died on this farm.
Like that's, they just need to know because it's closure it's a piece of closure it's not obviously the whole thing but yeah and it's awful closure but it's something right In one of these victims, Sarah DeVries, we actually, when I read about her and I mentioned that she was a poet and When I read one of her journal entries about her talking about how she was scared to become one of these missing women...
I was saying how like she's just very well spoken and she sounded like she had such like a creative like articulate mind.
Well, one of our listeners, who I'm not going to say the name because they didn't explicitly tell me I could, they told me that they knew They didn't know Sarah, but they have some kind of connection to Sarah.
Okay. And they said that they just appreciated the victims' names being out there and talking about them.
And they also wanted to say, anyways, this is all to say that I want to introduce you to Sarah DeVries.
Sarah was a daughter, sister, mother, niece, cousin, friend, roller skater, protector, sex worker, and poet.
She also vanished from Vancouver's downtown Eastside in the 90s, and her DNA was later found on the Picton farm.
Her sister, Maggie DeVries, wrote a book about Sarah's life and disappearance and the missing and murdered women of Vancouver.
She included several poems of Sarah's throughout the book, including one that I'll share with you because it's a reminder that the 49 women who died on that farm were not just another death.
And here's the poem that Sarah DeVries wrote.
Women's body found beaten beyond recognition.
You sip your coffee, taking a drag of your smoke. turning the page, taking a bite of your toast.
Just another day, just another death. just one more thing you so easily forget you and your soft sheltered life just go on and on for nobody special from your world is gone just another day just another death just another hasting street whore sentenced to death the judge's gavel already fallen sentence already passed but you you just sift your sip your coffee washing down your toast she was a broken down angel a child lost with no place A human being in disguise.
She touched my life. She was somebody. She was no whore.
She was somebody special. who just lost her way.
She was somebody fighting for her life, trying to survive, a lonely lost child who died, In the night, all alone, scared, gasping for air.
That like made me choke up like thinking like... My body was like vibrating that entire time.
That like... The two things that you've read so far, It's like obviously she wasn't aware of what was going to happen to her, but it's just so crazy.
Her style of writing. She was very intuitive. to the world around her yes yeah like when you read her writings you're like wow and it's just so haunting that that's how she went Yeah, like, I feel like it's just she had, like, I don't know, she had a connection somewhere that just...
I remember once we had an assembly at school and I've always remembered this.
I don't remember exactly the girl's name, but she I believe she died in a school shooting.
And she had written that she knew that she was going to die young and she was like a really good poet and stuff.
And she always wrote about the fact that she knew she was going to die before she was supposed to.
That's so scary. And that's just like really reminiscent.
Yeah. It does remind me of that. Like, obviously, Sarah wasn't writing that she was going to die, but she was writing she was afraid.
About it. Exactly. Yeah. So I just want to thank you for sending that because, wow, it like really touched me.
It was just an awesome thing to be able to read to say, like, she's a cousin.
She was a roller skater, a protector. She's not less dead.
She was more than this, you know? So thank you for that.
That was awesome. Always welcome. That was really touching.
Um, so in a press conference, the deputy chief constable Doug Lippard from the Vancouver police department said about this case, quote, quote, I wish that the several agencies involved that we could have done better in so many ways.
I wish that all the mistakes that were made we could undo, and I wish more lives would have been saved.
So on my behalf, on behalf of the Vancouver Police Department and all the men and women who worked on the investigation...
I would say to the family, so sorry we are for your losses because we did not catch the monster sooner.
Wow. Yeah. But it's like, they didn't want to investigate.
You didn't listen. Everybody was calling and saying stuff and everybody knew that something was up.
That's nice. Nice words, but it's like you guys acted way too, way too late.
Too little, too late. According to a lot of our listeners in Canada, they're still not acting on these, especially indigenous women. and women working as sex workers and women who are marginalized society.
It's like, wake up. Yeah, it's crazy to me.
Like, this should have taught you. The thing that bothers me too is that I feel like sex work is becoming more and more mainstream now.
Yeah. Like look at OnlyFans. I just watched an entire documentary about it.
So that is that's also sex work. If somebody went missing and they had an OnlyFans page, are they not going to investigate that?
Yeah, it's like... Are they less dead? It's just... It's so...
It's weird. Right. It's just weird. It's a person.
Right. No matter what, like... Sex worker, hairdresser, autopsy technician, fucking...
I can't think of another job, but you know what I mean?
No other jobs in the world. That's all there is.
But like work at a grocery store, a fucking dog groomer.
We're all humans. Exactly. You know, it's just crazy.
I don't get it. It really is. Well, in January 2006, the trial began.
He pled not guilty to 27 charges because they removed the Jane Doe charge.
Why did he? Why? In August, those charges were then... That was when it was split to the 6 and 20.
Okay. Because... Of course. So a year later, he faced the trial for the six.
The jury came back not guilty on first degree murder. and actually guilty on second-degree murder, which does not make sense to me in the least.
Why? Don't know, but people were very upset about it.
Canada, what the fuck is up? Well, Canada was like, what the fuck is up?
I think Canada was like, huh? It was, I have no idea.
I don't know. I couldn't find anything that justified it, so.
Yeah, that's strange. Initially he was, there is like a happy twist to this though.
Initially, he was up for parole in like 10 years, 10, 15 years.
He was going to be able to have parole. What?
Because that was for second degree murder.
That's the traditional one. But after reading, I think it was 18 victim impact statements, the judge said, decided that he changed it to life without the possibility of parole until 25 years. which is the max he could give for second-degree murder, and is actually...
I think it's actually what they give for first degree murder.
I believe I read that somewhere. So he really changed it to be like, no.
Yeah. Like, that's ridiculous. And he's not going to get.
It's like it's not going to happen. I hope not.
And it's like he will very likely die in prison.
In October 2010... Just to update on a different part, there was a lot of pressure from the community, especially in Vancouver. and it was on the Canadian government to open an inquiry into the disappearances of these women.
He's missing women and girls. Right. And how it wasn't handled well by law enforcement and how this could have been so much less than what it was if they had just acted when they should have.
And it concluded, this inquiry, that this investigation was grossly mishandled and that they did not do their best to solve these cases and that they haven't done their best to solve all the other missing women and girls cases.
So they did start putting a little bit of changes into effect.
But on December 8th, 2015, Canada launched a national public inquiry into this the insanely disproportionate amount of Indigenous women who go missing and murdered each year in Canada.
And in 2014, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police actually stated that there were 1,200 missing and murdered Indigenous women Between 1980 and 2012.
1200? Oh, yeah, but Indigenous women's groups... they document it at somewhere around 4,000.
How do you not realize that 4000 people in your community are dead?
Well, a lot of it is because of underreporting.
Because you saw, there were a few instances in part two where Willie...
You know, somebody got away from him and they were like, I didn't report it because they wouldn't care.
Right. There's tons of that. And then it's also just underreported anyways. by the police as well, and the police didn't look into them a lot or didn't create any kind of database for it.
There was just nothing done. There was no organization done to to try to fix this like plague that's happening.
That whole place needs a revamp. crazy stat from Canada, actually.
The homicide rate between 1997 and 2000 it was seven times higher for indigenous women. over non-indigenous women.
Wow. So that's just like a crazy stat. And the National Inquiry's final report was completed in 2019.
They said that it was, I think I actually found, yes.
The website, it's for the missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls.
It's www. dot MMIWG. And what it said And the first page you'll see of the website when you go find like the final report, they've posted it on there.
What they wrote on their website was the National Inquiry's final report reveals that persistent and deliberate human and indigenous rights violations. and abuses are the root cause behind Canada's staggering rates of violence against Indigenous women, girls, and...
2SLGBTQQIA people. The two-volume report calls for transformative legal and social changes to resolve the crisis that has devastated indigenous communities across the country.
And then it says, is comprised of the truths of more than 2,380 family members, survivors of violence, Experts and knowledge keepers shared over two years of cross-country public hearings and evidence gathering.
It delivers 231 individual calls for justice directed at governments, institutions, social service providers, industries, and all Canadians.
As documented in the final report, testimony from family members and survivors of violence spoke about the surrounding context. marked by multi-generational and intergenerational trauma and marginalization in the form of poverty, insecure housing or homelessness, and barriers to education, employment, health care, and cultural support.
Experts and knowledge keepers spoke to specific colonial and patriarchal policies that displaced women from their traditional roles. in communities and governance and diminished their status in society, leaving them vulnerable to violence.
Yeah. So what they're saying is the final report was like, what the fuck?
Yeah. The cliff notes on that are da fuck.
What are you doing about it? It's like insane.
So what are they doing about it? Well, unfortunately, I guess this is a very ongoing thing.
I'm hoping, I mean. Since 2000? been 21 fucking years i i honestly urge everyone to go if you especially if you want to look into this particular thing that's going on, go to www.mmiwg- ffada.ca and that's going to take you to that website.
It's Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls.
And it tells you everything. It tells you all the events that are going on, places you can donate.
All the updates are on there. I think our next big show, we know where we're donating.
Yeah, it's insane. It really is. And I had shared on my Twitter the other night an Etsy shop from a listener's friend.
You did, yeah. Yeah, and it's an indigenous run shop, and she does have, like, a red dress pin and sticker that... that if you bought that, she donates 50% to the missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls.
Love that. I think anything you can do like that, anything we can find, definitely share it out.
Get people listening to it. Yes. Now unfortunately on August 4th, 2010, Crown prosecutors stayed the balance of pending murder charges against Willie Pickton, so that means that There's no future trials for any of the other missing women.
Why? Don't know. I'm a little mad at the crown.
So that's a little mad at the crown. I'm not going The Netflix show, it really bummed me out.
I've never watched that. I haven't either.
I kind of wanted to, though. But yeah, so... I mean, he's...
He's in jail. He's not going anywhere. He's just living his life disgustingly.
I didn't find any updates on him, but...
I don't want him to go through another trial because I'm sure he like derives some kind of pleasure from that and like relives it somehow.
But I want the families of the women yeah it's really a catch-22 to get their chance to read their victim impact statements and I know, that's the thing.
That's the thing, because those really made a difference in the first trial, obviously.
And it makes a difference when you get to see somebody put away for your daughter's murder.
Yeah, exactly. For your family members, not just... you know, figuratively, you know, not just like a symbolic gesture.
There's not even any fucking symbolic gestures here.
Yeah, it's just like... They got nothing.
Well, because they're being like, he's in prison, so like... for all of it and it's like no but that's not enough that's just a blanket over everything right And again, I want them to find more.
I want them to be able to identify more of these remains.
It's killing me. I feel like if they went back, they would still find stuff to They definitely would.
And the ones they already have that they haven't been able to identify, that kills me.
Well, now especially. I mean, we saw the fucking Golden State Killer.
Come on. I mean, it's a possibility. This thing will go on forever.
The familial DNA, hopefully. will help let's hope fingers crossed so uh that's willie picton that was a huge bummer he's he's a lot mm-hmm and he's terrible and his family's terrible and his farm is terrible He's terrible, but he's in prison.
In Canada, I'm really glad he's in prison.
And to all our Canadian listeners who reached out and gave us tips and tidbits and stories.
I read every single email that like came in about this like that from every single person that was like, oh, let me just tell you my quick little thing or Let me help you with this farm thing and all that.
So like this was a team effort. Just know that like you guys really helped like put this together.
So you guys were awesome with that. You were so cool.
So thank you so much. Wow. I'm glad to be out of Willie Pickton's world and I need to get out of it.
Yeah, I'm ready to get off it. But, you know, next episode, we're going to get into somehow an even more fucked up Yeah, we're going to we're going to drag you right back down.
But, you know, for like a couple of days, we're out of it.
Yeah, just like, you know, what, till Saturday?
Yeah. And to our Patreons, we have something fun that we're going to be giving you in the next, like...
March 1st. March 1st, right? So Monday. No, Sunday, I believe.
Either way. I don't know. Someday. It's March 1st.
You're getting it. One of those days. We've been working on like a fun, different surprise.
It's just a fun little thing that we. it's just little don't get too excited it's just tiny okay it was like something fun so we're excited about it But yeah, so thanks, everybody.
Yeah, thanks. I love you. In the meantime, you can follow us on Instagram.
At Morbid Podcast. Hit us up on Twitter.
At a Morbid Podcast. I don't know who's there right now, but.
Both of us are on Twitter breaks. I'm just taking a hiatus from social media.
It's just like depressing. You know what?
The world is depressing to look at right now.
Retweet. Retweet. I'm going to retweet you IRL.
There you go. Oh, God. I hate myself. And then send us a Gmail because, guys, seriously, whenever you send us Gmails about our case, Gmails. about our cases.
It's like we do read every single one of them.
Yeah, that's it. I got so much more information thanks to our listeners from that.
So that's... That's a great thing. So thanks for all those great things.
And that's all. So we hope you keep listening.
And we hope you keep it weird. But not so weird that you're Canada and the crown.
Canada's awesome. No, Canada's great. Not so weird that you're Canada's crown.
I'm mad at the crown. I'm mad at the crown.
I'm pissed at the fucking crown, man. But Canada?
Yeah. We freaking love you. I love Canada.
We love you. I'm so excited to go to Canada.
Hi, Johnny and Tyler. I was going to say that's spooky.
Spooky gay bullshit. Bye. Bye. you Thank you.
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