Episode 210: Willie Pickton Part 1｜Morbid

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Hey weirdos, I'm Elena. I'm Ash. And this is Morbid at Night.

Morbid at Night. Bye. Sexy. Sexy and spicy.

Except not at all. This is neither sexy nor spicy.

It is It is unattractive and bland. I wouldn't say bland.

I would say unattractive and like... Disgusting.

Nasty. Is what I would say. So this is another one of our episodes that has been chosen by our Patronuses.

Our Patronus I picks. Our Patronus I. And they picked a doozy.

They certainly picked a doozy. I'm glad they picked a doozy for you because next week is also a doozy.

They picked Robert William Picton. Yikes.

The pig farmer from Canada who is quite a character.

And I have about 12 to 14 hours of research into this already.

You're going to get three parts because mama can't stop.

And here's the thing. She said 12 to 14 hours and she's only got one and two done.

Yeah, I've only got two done. So that's going to be more than like 14 hours.

I just can't stop. This case is... fascinating, it's huge, it's horrifying, it's intricate, and it's so important because this case has to do so much with like missing Indigenous women in Canada.

And what a huge, huge, like just... Like, it was so fluffed off.

And it's still a problem. Yeah. And especially sex workers.

It's like, forget about it. Of course. This went on for way too long. too long.

Bullshit. But I think the only thing before we get into it was just like an exciting thing that I just want to be like, go listen to because it was really fun. oh my gosh guys we were on murder squad and i couldn't wait to tell you guys The amount of times that Elena said, Paul Hulse.

I said Paul Hulse quite a bit. Paul Hulse.

I think it was just like one of my goals in life to be like, well, Paul, what do you think of this? holes, Paul holes.

And it was great, but yeah, I was, we were really excited about it and we couldn't tell you guys for weeks.

I know. Really excited. So yeah, that was the big like, yay, I'm so excited.

I think I tweeted like... That night I came home and I was like bouncing off the walls.

You were literally on drugs. Being able to talk about a case with Paul Hulls and Billy Jensen.

Of course. Obviously. But we had actually done an episode if you guys like haven't listened to it. where we had Billy on the show and we talked about Katrina Holmer.

And that was amazing. And after that one, I was like losing my mind.

Oh, absolutely. But like Paul holds, you're like, you like solved the Golden State Killer case.

Well, that's the thing. He's probably the smartest man I've ever had a conversation with.

Yeah, it was thrilling. Like I can't think of somebody else that I've had a conversation with that's that smart in that area.

And just like being able to talk about a case, especially like the Oklahoma Girl Scout murders, which is what we talked about on that episode with a homicide detective. who just has this way of being able to look at a case that...

We can't. Like he came up with a few things that I was like, why didn't I think of that?

I know. Like that makes so much sense. But yeah, it was a lot of fun.

We absolutely loved it. We want to thank them again for asking us to come on for the winter distraction episode because... that was like truly an honor and can't wait to do it again we're totally gonna do it again i hope So hope we get invited back.

Shout out to Karen and Georgia. We love you.

Oh my God. The best. Thanks for paving the way.

Thank you for letting us see Steven for a little while.

That was fun. That was so much fun. But yeah, I just wanted to say that because that was like a real like shot in the arm. this month oh absolutely we were excited about it and hope you guys go listen to it it's on their feed And if you haven't listened to Murder Squad, go listen to them because they're awesome.

Incredible. But let's... Let's really destroy you.

Let's roll around in the mud together. Let's go ahead and really... really make you not want to eat for the next like four days.

Glad I literally just ate two tacos. This case...

There's a lot. I don't really know anything about this case, to be honest.

Wait until you get into it because it's, we're going to get into, so for part one, I'm going to tell you about Willie because he's known as Willie Pickton, his name is Robert William Pickton, but he's known as Willie.

We're going to tell you about Willie. I'm going to tell you about how he grew up.

I'm going to tell you about their infamous farm that they had.

We're going to talk about like the time period and what was going on in Vancouver at the time, these missing mostly Indigenous women that were sex workers I think all of them were and how it was being ignored and Like, it's just, it's shocking.

So part one, we're going to get into that and we're going to talk about a few run-ins with Willie.

So we're going to give you a little, I'm going to give you a little bit of like meat and potatoes.

She's going to give you a little snippet before she gives you all of it.

Part two is going to be like, Whoa. And then part three is going to be like, ah, so just we're going to give them to you back to back.

So they're going to come fast and furious.

You won't have to wait for parts for too long.

So don't worry. Now, Robert William Picton was born October 24th, 1949.

He was born in and he was raised in Port Coquitlam, British Columbia, Canada.

All right. I think it's Coquitlam. Coquitlam?

I think it is. Don't tell us either way.

I feel like it is. Stop. And it's like, I love you, Canada.

I think I said it right. I hope I did you proud.

Yeah. I just like quadruple checked it.

I literally paused the recording to be like, I just got to make sure.

And I was right. I don't need it to be mentioned in all of those tweets.

No, Coquitlam. Go Quitlam. You got it. He was the middle child of three.

He had three kids all together. It's always the fucking middle.

It's a middle child. His sister Linda was born a year before he was, and his brother was a younger brother, David. and he was actually a year after that so it was like boom boom boom bing bang boom His parents are Leonard and Louise Picton.

Oh my god, we love alliteration. We do, but we don't love them.

Oh. We do not love them. They sound delightful, like Leonard and Louise.

Yeah, they sound like they go dancing on Friday night.

Look at those cute little people. No. They don't go dancing at all.

Apparently, Louise was a very hard worker.

Very hard worker. Leonard was very lazy, so they were like opposites attract.

Stinker. But Louise and Leonard were probably best known for...

Their looks. By that, I don't mean like their looks on the runway.

I mean like... They were very interesting looking people.

And not just like, you know, just you're strange looking.

It's like they like actively... made themselves like the scary people in the neighborhood.

Really? Yeah. So Louise specifically, purposely just kind of let nature take hold of her outer appearance.

I'm going to Google while you describe this. uh she kind of let all her teeth rot out of her head she you can like die from her hair was oh it's very dangerous like or Moral health is very important.

And I guess... And I'm not saying... There was nothing that could really... say what happened here, but all her hair was gone apparently, but she grew a full beard.

No, no, no, she did not. No. And this is only worth mentioning because she kind of became like a local fascination in town.

Because she's a fucking bearded lady. Because she was also very loud and very abrasive. like very scary so she's this like short kind of stout woman with no teeth, a full beard, and... Why can't I find a picture of it anywhere?

I don't know. I couldn't really find one either.

I'm pissed. But she was always wearing a house coat over men's jeans.

And the jeans were tucked into galoshes.

No. That was her like what she wore every day.

And she would come out in that housecoat, men's jeans and giant galoshes with the things tucked into them and like full beard, no teeth. just screaming at people.

I have to wonder if Stacey and Clinton could even. could even could they even and you know she would scream at small children rude Like she was just and she was like she was a dick.

That's clearly. And so, like, the fact that she was just like a little fascinating to look at was just...

A little fascinating. Was interesting. That's probably why she's, she's probably just like upset that life dealt her gnarly cards.

I don't know. No? She just seems like... She seems like she kind of like... leaned really hard into it like she liked this listen if you honestly grow a full beard If you can say nothing else about the Pictons, they loved being disgusting.

That was like, they relished. Who they were and they were, this is who they were.

They were foul. I just like choked on my laugh.

I don't know if you heard that. They were decaying living people.

It was unbelievable. That's heinous. Truly unbelievable.

And Leonard just looked dirty and horrifying.

Yeah, I saw him. he was like tall and thin but they and it's like they weren't just like ugly people like we're not being like they're just ugly They were filthy, like, disgusting, and they didn't give a shit.

That's... And they smelt. Apparently this entire family smelled horrific.

Oh, no, no, no. Like, horrific. And Leonard was known as Piggy by the other farmers.

Stop. Because his stank was just unreal.

Stop. yeah and he was also super nasty and abusive to his children oh so fuck that and when he wasn't just neglecting them Oh, right.

So either neglecting or just being a shithead.

Yeah. And Willie kind of like looked more like his father.

Like he had more of like the that builds and like that look about him.

Was that better for him? I guess. I don't think there was really like a good option, but I suppose...

I don't know. If you have to pick one. I don't know.

Well, I feel like he would rather look like Mama so he could grow a beard.

But I guess I think Dave took after Mama because he had a full beard.

I'm so stuck on that. I'm so stuck on it.

And Willie was... filthy his entire life they all were but like Willie was really known ew I need I don't like talking about dirtiness no it stresses me out me like it makes me want to like put deodorant on and like scrub my hair follicles Well, everyone used to call Willie Ratface.

Stop. That's horrible. And, um... He does have a rat face, so I just want to put that.

Yeah, I just saw him. When you look at him, you're like, oh, rat face.

That's the first thing that comes to you.

If you didn't know he was called Ratface, you would look at him and be like, Ratface?

Is that his name? Is that his given name?

Yeah. Ratface? Picton? Is that his name?

Face of a rat. Ratface? Year of the rat.

Yeah, no, he's a rat face. He's a rat bastard is what he is.

So the farm animals... So they had a ton of pigs.

They had some cattle. But this was mostly a pig farm.

Mm hmm. Pigs living in the house, pigs living outside.

It's so funny that these filthy people owned pigs because pigs are among the cleanest animals on earth.

I know, but not these pigs because they didn't treat them well at all.

They didn't take care of them. But they did allow all the animals to just walk through the house.

That's fucked. No matter what. They could just walk through the house, they could shit in the middle of the house, and no one cleaned it up.

Oh, that's... Not one person in this fucking family cleaned... one day in their life so there's just around like no matter what we will see later that when people went into this home and onto this property Every single surface and every single wall, floor, and ceiling was covered in feces.

Fucking dirt, mud, blood, just everything.

When I say they did not clean, there was never a point in the life of this farm that any of this family cleaned.

Sometimes visitors would come and try to clean, No.

Why did they have visitors? Oh, just wait.

Why did they have visitors? We'll get to that in part one.

Why did they have visitors? Yes, we'll get to some of it.

And boy, boy howdy. This is great. Boy howdy.

It's a lot. What? So much. So yeah, so animals are walking in the house.

They're pissing everywhere. They're shitting everywhere.

The kids had to clean out all the pig pens before school and there was over 200 pigs.

Jesus. Yeah. They also went, so they went to school directly from cleaning up everything on the farm.

Shit. So they stank to high heavens. They were filthy. and the kids were really only bathed like once in a while what like lucky if they had a bath like once in the week Ew.

Yeah. And it was probably like sit in this dirty water and shut up.

Yeah. And where was CPS? Of course, David and Willie immediately got a reputation reputation, like no one wanted to hang out with them, they were dirty, they were disgusting.

Which is sad as kids. Obviously. They don't have a control over that.

No, and their sister. Like we always say, feel bad for the kid, not the adult.

Absolutely. But the kid at the time, you're like, that sucks.

That you were like, you were sent off to school to basically get made fun of.

Yeah, exactly. Well, and these boys didn't really get to hang out with other kids.

They were worked to the bone. And they were pretty much just neglected when they were on the farm.

So they were kind of just forced. They did farm labor and then they were just like left behind.

To do whatever. This is really reminiscent of Carl Pan's room.

It is, right? Yeah. It really is. So Linda, the sister, she had a similar experience for sure because she was growing up in that house.

You're going to be stinking. Like literal squalor.

But she was at least kind of treated by her mother like a human sometimes, like a human child.

Okay. Interesting. What happened when the human moments were occurring?

She was bathed a little more. Okay. And she would go to like events like birthday parties with other kids and like her mom would buy her dresses and like clean her up for them.

Interesting. Maybe it was like something about like a mom having a daughter.

Yeah. I don't know what it was. And also Willie and his mother. were very close, even though his mother was like pretty fucking terrible to him.

It was one of those things. Okay. Kind of like an Ed Gein thing.

Right, right. We hear about a lot of these serial killers who get very close to their mother and are very obsessive with them.

We've talked about them before. But when you look at it, the relationship, you're like, she was terrible to you.

Why are you so obsessed with her? Because you're like somehow... all constantly pining for her approval yeah it's like they need her approval and then they start equating love with pain and humiliation and that's when chick just goes awry.

Now, the pictid You'd think they're living in squalor.

They're like disgusting, filthy, horrific.

They had tons of money. Really? Tons of money.

They had tons of land and they were selling off chunks of this land left and right to real estate developers.

Wow. That's where the money's at too. It's crazy.

That's nuts. Now there was obviously this place was not a very good environment to, you know, nourish young minds.

No. I don't think. I just don't see it.

They were never read to at home, which I like tweeted about this the other day.

I saw that. bothered me like deeply that like children are like going to bed at night and not having a book read to them or like Just never sat with their parents and had a book read.

Like that bums me out. Yeah, that didn't happen in my childhood.

And that bums me out. I can't name you one time my mom read me a book.

That's horrific. My stepmom would read before we went to bed.

And Ma would read. And Ma was like... throwing books at us left and right.

And that's what's so crazy to me is, like, my mom was always, like, an obsessive reader.

She still is. And she was always very I remember the one thing she always told me was I'll never say no to a book.

So if we were out and I wanted a book, I got that book.

She'll never say no to a book. Ma would always get like a ton of stuff at like BJ's, like go shopping.

And she would always go, why don't you girls go in the book section and pick out what you And we would stand in the book section while she did all the grocery shopping.

And no matter what book you wanted. And, like, no matter how many.

Yeah. She was always that way because she was like, I want you reading.

Read what you want to read. Mm-hmm. And she always told me, you know, you got to go to bed at a certain time when I was little, but I could sit up and read in bed.

Yeah, it was always a thing. And I think it's important.

It's like bonding, it's calm, it's safety.

It's nourishing your mind. It's like doing so much for you.

These kids weren't getting it. Well, and there's so many studies about like what reading to your kids, especially even when they're babies can do further in life.

Exactly. So... Because of this and because they're not getting any kind of help at home for school, nobody's really helping these kids at all.

Willie's tests and grades in school were not good.

He was not doing well. Because nobody's there to help him. him.

Yeah, he ended up being held back in second grade and he spent his entire school career really needing extra help. to get by and being in classes reserved for children with special learning needs.

But he struggled. Like, really struggled.

Willie and his brother also had, like... pretty unique speech issues.

They could speak. They didn't have like a speech impediment, I wouldn't say.

Both of their voices were just really high pitched.

And they kind of remained that way a little bit.

That probably even added like a layer to all the bullying.

Exactly. And then there was also there was a slight impediment where they just couldn't pronounce certain words and sounds.

Like, I think they had trouble pronouncing, like, R's, like, almost like a Boston accent.

Kind of, but it's like it almost made it sound kind of like babyish, you know?

Yeah. Which I don't think helped anything.

Maybe they would do like a W almost instead of an R. Exactly.

Yeah, exactly. So it just made it even worse. um so you know around them i guess they now i read a book that i think everybody should read it's fucking amazing about this case.

I recommend it so highly. It is called On the Farm.

And it's by Stevie Cameron. And it's super long, super in-depth.

They go into so much detail about every aspect of this case, their lives, everything.

I highly recommend it. And in that book, they talk about how the Pictons lived in an area in Coquitlam that They were kind of surrounded by like, you know, people that were really well off because again, they're pretty well off.

They were a huge squalor, but you would never know that they had a ton of money.

But there was a lot of doctors who lived in the area, lawyers.

So the kids, the Picton kids are going to school with these doctors and lawyers kids.

Who are treating them like shit. Yeah. Because that's just what else they care like dirty farm kids.

So one of these kids talked later. was talking about how they kind of like treated them shitty.

And I just had to write this quote down from this one.

Was this going to make me really sad? woman who said that she was like a doctor's child just because oh no i think it's gonna make you be like that's ridiculous Oh, God.

Just the end quote, the end sentence in this.

I was like, you're anybody who has to say that.

I'm like, you're sucks. Doesn't suck. I'm like, you're ridiculous.

Hit me with it. We were all terrible to the Pictons. especially Robert, Willie.

I remember all of us on the road taunting him. we'd say to each other, just let us add him now and we'll make him talk.

How were they different? Dirty and stinky.

They always had their hair cut and a brush cut.

Man, they stunk. Their house was a poor house with no yard and falling down fences. there were no big trees only some shrubs i even remember them at school i Don't even remember them at school at all, but I do remember them waiting for the school bus.

Our bunch was mostly all doctor's kids. We were the best dress and had the nicest houses.

Almost everyone in the group is successful now.

I bet you're not. Literally? Like, that's a cunt.

I bet you're not. Yeah, like, what a dick. they all sucked and they lived in a like who cares if their house is poor Willie Pickton is an absolute demon piece of shit.

Like he should rot for all eternity. Fuck that guy.

Right. I just think anybody who has to be like, yeah, we were totally terrible to them when they were kids.

And then to be like, we had the best clothes and we had the nicest houses and we're all successful now.

Like, fuck off. It's very elitist. It just rubbed me the wrong way.

I was like, you don't, what the fuck? And also, why are you still stuck in middle school?

Like you and the thing about that quote that I had to include it because I was like, you tell me nothing that everybody else doesn't know.

But then you have to add in at the end, like, I'm successful.

I'm so successful. And I had the best clothes when I was a kid.

Okay. Okay. Awesome. Cool. Live your life.

It was just so fun. It was like a nice little like, haha, when I was reading it.

Because, oh boy. You need a little hop.

It's like a palate cleanser. Because again, Willie, you feel bad for him when he's a kid, but then, oh boy.

You don't feel bad for a while. He erases that real quick later in life.

Now, according to a lot of people who knew the Pictons, apparently Willie was said to have once... hidden in the carcass of slaughtered pigs if he wanted to hide away from people.

So not once, like a few times would hide in the carcasses of slaughtered pigs just to like, if he didn't want to talk to someone, he was just like, I'll just hang out in here.

That in and of itself is a case study. It's like in Star Wars when they open that animal and lay it it it's the same thing yeah it's exactly that uh but at this is really sad This is like really gonna, again, you get a lot of like sympathy for him as a child.

Don't worry. We'll remove it all later. But what happens when he was 12 years old?

He had a calf that he bought. No, don't even finish.

He bought it at three and a half weeks. He spent $35 on it.

He had saved up for it. And he wanted to keep it as a pet.

He did not want this to be like a farm animal.

It was like his animal. He was so happy.

He loved feeding it. He would like run home from school every day and feed it.

And he just wanted to take care of it. And he said it was, quote, as pretty as the days long.

No, shut up. One day he came home from school and it was missing.

So he frantically went everywhere. He's panicking.

He's asking his parents, he's asking everyone, and they're like, maybe it just ran away.

Like, I don't know. And he was like, what the hell?

I don't know what to do. And then I think it was his father that was like, maybe you should look in the barn.

Which to me, when you find out what happens, you're like, wow, you're a demon.

What did he do to it? When he looked in the barn, the calf was dead hanging upside down by a hook.

Why? They had butchered his pet. For meat or just to be assholes?

Yeah, they had just butchered it for meat.

Willie lost it. And Louise offered him money to buy a new one.

Why would he go get another one if you're just going to do the same fucking thing?

And he was devastated. Oh. Like absolutely devastated.

There's a quote in the same book from. Willie himself, and he says, and here I seen the calf hanging upside down there.

They butchered my calf on me. Oh boy, I was mad.

I couldn't talk to anybody for three or four days.

I locked everybody out of my own mind. I didn't want to talk to anybody.

That really upset me, but that happens. That's life.

I mean, we're only here for so long. When your time is over, your time is over.

Oh, wow. That's one way to get through it.

That's just like... So is this a case of, do you feel this is a case of nature versus nurture and it's definitely nurture?

I think nurture plays a really big role in this.

Do you think that if he grew up with a different family, like an amazing family, he would have done all this?

I don't know, because when you find out what he does, he's real fucked up.

But he's real fucked up. This house seems like it would.

Fuck somebody up. Well, that's the thing.

I think that this, I mean, I definitely think nurture had a huge role in this.

I do. You have to think he had two siblings and they didn't go on to do things like this.

Dave grew up to be a shithead too. Was he, like, a murderer?

No. Well, no. We're not... Not confirmed?

Not confirmed. I mean, there's no charges against him or anything like that, but I wouldn't be shocked.

If it came out that all of a sudden they were like, oh, look, he did it too.

The sister, Linda. Linda moved away from the family and she turned out great.

But here's the thing, she was treated a little bit better.

And she moved away from the family pretty early on.

So, I mean, you... She was raised in a different environment, pretty much.

You can... you can say that nature versus nurture, maybe it's nurture.

Yeah. And maybe it was like, you know partially this whole like raising him this way neglecting abusing treating him like this and then Also bringing them around because of course, kids who grew up on a farm, like learn how to slaughter animals.

They see that stuff. But I think that on top of how they were treating him already really like melded into something terrible.

Yeah. It was like a deadly mixture. Exactly.

Now, at 14 years old, he ended up leaving school for good.

Oh, it's a strange story. I guess he had like bought a pen at the store.

That was what do you remember those pens that you'd like turn one way and something would like come down no Okay.

Well, there was these cool pens. Sorry. There was one that was like, there was a lady on the pen and then you'd like...

Flip it this way and her like dress would fall off.

Oh, that's a lot I didn't have that pen, but Willie had that pen.

He bought that pen. So it's like a naked lady and then you turn it the other way and the clothes go back on.

That's funny. It's like, yeah, it's just like, it's ridiculous.

Well, the principal at school threatened to beat him if he didn't get rid of the pen.

That's one way to handle it. And so Willie was like, bye, and just left.

It never came back. I love that that was the straw that broke Willie's back.

Yeah, that was it. That was the naked lady that broke Willie's back.

That was it. The naked lady pen. The bare naked ladies.

Now, the two boys ended up taking on a lot more workload at the farm, now that they weren't in school.

Yeah, and David was still in school, but he was still taking up a big load.

Before Willie had even left school, they would leave midday, midday during the school day to come home, slop the pigs and then come back.

Now, what does slop the pigs mean? I'm not quite sure.

Okay. I think it's like feed. Oh, okay.

Like, do what you do? That's what I think swap the things would mean.

I think it's just like... Pig things? Just pig things, Tia.

Like, just pig things. Can't talk right now.

I'm doing pig thing shit. I think it's, yeah, whatever things pigs need, I think that's what slopping is.

I'm pretty sure. Alrighty. Let us know.

Do you have a pig? HMU. Do you slop it? I don't know.

Sounds rough. It doesn't sound nice. I want to, like, nourish my pig.

It really does. And then the boys both started flat out missing school, and that's when Willie... like left school anyways, but David was missing school all the time.

They were both exhausted and filthy all the time.

There wasn't even a shower in the house and there was like a for bathing.

No. Now, in 1963... They moved to another farm.

And they actually, like, took the farmhouse they had and, like, moved it.

They moved the shithouse. Yes. Would you not just get a new house?

Because they are the Pictons. But there's shit in there.

They're the Pictons. So you're rich. You know why?

Because they like living in shit. This is how they like to be.

Do you think that they're just like one with the animals?

No, I think they're just disgusting animals themselves.

And they're horrifying. So they moved from the place they were at first, which was Dawes Hill, to 963 Dominion Avenue.

At this new place, they had 700 pigs. They like really, they busted.

What the fuck? They busted this out. 700 pigs.

Now, Linda, the sister, was like, goodbye.

She was like, you know what? I'm going to go stay with other family in Vancouver because she was like, you're all fucking gross.

So I'm going to. I'm going to get out of here.

She was like, there's 700 pigs here, and I don't think we need another box.

She was like, I'm going to take my leave.

I think this is my time to like soft shoe out of here.

Goodbye. I'm surprised they let her. I guess it's like one.

Yeah, I think she was just like, bye. Wow.

Okay. She basically didn't really have a lot of contact, especially with the parents after this.

Why? I wonder. That's so strange. I know.

She did talk to her brothers later on. once in a while, but it was only for business things, basically, because they were still running the farm once the parents died.

So When Willie left school for good at 14, Dave was still in school, like I said, and weirdly, he like dated a ton.

Was like super gross. Now, who the mother fuck dated Stinky Dave?

I think the whole world, I think all of Canada still asks this.

They're all like, show yourselves. Like, who are you?

I need to show your face. Yeah, show your face because he was disgusting.

Like he was disgusting. Like you said, you said so.

Foul. Stanky. Like, rotten meat. Like, would make Stanky Chops Ramirez look like the cleanest motherfucker. like stanky chops smell his breath smelled like wet leather everybody said which to me when they when you say wet leather i'm like you just did it and i actively gagged worse than that that made him look like Mr. Clean like shave stanky chops his head throw a white t-shirt good to go Exactly.

But I guess in school, Dave was like somewhat normal when it came to like interacting with peers and stuff.

He just kind of like. So everyone was like, he's smelly, but charming.

They were like, he's disgusting. Like, he looks like... what the inside of a hemorrhoid feels like it would look like.

Oh. And smells like a... an infected sore.

But, but like, Let's hang with them. All right.

So listen, I'm going to need you to get past this part because I... cannot handle it i just gotta do it i shower sometimes two times a day if i get sweaty I mean, I love being clean.

If that's not your bag, that's not your bag.

Being clean is my favorite. thing on the planet.

There's nothing like washing your hair and your body and it's like keeping up with yourself.

Cleanliness is definitely a big thing for me.

It's key. If it's not for you, that's cool.

Live your life. But don't murder people also.

Because if you are dirty and murder people, that's boom, boom.

Don't be dirty, though. It's not healthy.

It's not healthy. That's true. It's not good for anyone.

Now, either way, once Willie left school, the two of them were basically full-time farmhands at this point.

Willie was given the task because he was out of school now, so they were like, okay, we're going to teach you how to become a butcher.

And, like, slaughter. That was probably the worst thing they ever taught him.

Certainly was, because he started training to slaughter the pigs and cattle.

He would slaughter as many as two dozen animals in one day alone.

No. That's a lot of animals to slaughter.

24. That's a lot. And this kind of became his thing.

No. Like he loved it. See, that's very good at it.

He loved it. If you're a butcher, like... wowie kazowie get it thanks for the steak yeah sorry if you're a vegan trigger warning But you shouldn't enjoy... He was enjoying the killing.

Oh, he was enjoying the process a little too much.

I feel like you shouldn't enjoy the process.

No, you shouldn't. You should just do it.

This is just something I do. And he kind of did it pretty horrifically, too.

He didn't make it quick. One thing I didn't do was look into exactly how you slaughter a pig, because I'm...

I'm going to be honest, I'm not really interested in reading about that.

But I did see, and just like trigger warning, because this whole thing has like... animal things in it like i'm not going to talk super like a ton about it but i just want to it's sprinkled in there it's not for everybody It's really not for me.

It's really not. It's not for me. Now, people would like who later we'll see people.

Farm becomes a hangout later. What the fuck?

I know, it's weird. Why? But people are around and people would come in and like see him slaughtering things and we kind of like. hang around and watch him do it like just to see it even that is pretty bizarre and see his methods what he would do which was really weird and I'm sure other people are going to think this is weird, is he would shoot the pigs sometimes in the forehead with a nail gun.

I don't think that's part of like slaughtering and butchering.

I don't think that's part of it. No, there's no way.

Doesn't seem humane to me. Because then he would just slice their artery on the back of the leg, stick a hook in it and hoist them up by their back legs and then just let them bleed to death.

Yeah, that's not how you do it. That makes me so sad.

So right here... Because pigs also... Pigs are one of the... Very intelligent.

Pigs are smarter than dogs. Yeah, they're very...

Very intelligent. They're like literally like top of the list.

Oh, yeah. So they knew what was happening.

Yeah. It's horrific. I hate that. I need to go home right now and hug Franklin and Lux.

I know. It made me want to, I like snuggled, bub.

This has been such a week for me with Franklin and Lux, so the fact that we're doing this right now, thanks a lot.

We won't talk too much about the animals.

No. It just has to be, it's part of him as a horrible person.

Um, and of course he would just like, you know, slaughter the animal, like gut it and everything.

And he would catch the blood and everything underneath and, um, You know, a neighbor said that they remember going into the home and it was fucking disgusting.

Like a neighbor was like, I had to go in there once for something.

And it was like, and I never did that again.

Like we had all heard about it, but you are not prepared for it until you see it.

He said there was no furniture at all. What?

It was just garbage everywhere. And he said in the middle of the living room, there was just a dirty mattress on the floor.

And he said there was just like food, dirt, garbage everywhere.

Can you imagine the bug? Exactly. He said there were bugs crawling everywhere. flying around and then he said what's weird he said all of the kitchen cabinets had locks on them And only Louise had the key.

What the fuck? And I read that in the On the Farm book.

Ew, now I feel like there's bugs all over me.

Fuck, fuck, fuck, I hate it. So the mother was like locking food away from them.

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I just feel so gross right now. Now, they were raising these pigs obviously to be slaughtered.

That's what this is. It's a meat. They wanted, they were in the meat business.

Why do you need 700 of them though? Well, in 1965, the family registered a business as B&C Frosted Foods.

And frosted foods meaning like frozen meat, you know.

Louise was like the head of the business.

She ran that shit. She ran that family and she ran that business.

Like Louise was the one in charge. I want to know more about her childhood.

She's a lot. I really want to know about her childhood.

Maybe I'll try to look for it for part three if I can find it.

Oh, girl, do it. I don't know if I'll find anything, but I'll look.

And the farm was registered as B&C Frosted Food Bank.

So this was the 60s. So not a lot of people have like big meat freezers.

It just wasn't like a prevalent thing. Just a little icebox.

And if you're going to buy meat, like big things of frozen meat, especially like a butchered, like fresh meat, you need to keep it cold.

Yeah. It's very important. And people didn't have the means to do that, but they needed the meat.

So the Pictons decided to take advantage of the fact that they were making bank on like selling real estate. and use the cash to buy up a ton of industrial freezers, like a hundred of them.

And they use these to set up a business where they could keep the meat that customers bought from their farm.

So they would store it for them if they didn't have means to keep it.

That's pretty smart. And they also helped other farmers store meat there.

And locals referred to this place as the meat locker.

Oh, gross. But in reality... uh louise changed the name of the business and um she she changed the name to b and c lockers at the end of it so she kind of like like leaned into what people were calling it.

Here's the thing though. If their house is that motherfucking gross, why do you want those people's storing your food?

You don't. You also, hint hint, don't want the meat that they're selling.

Why? Tell me right now. I can't tell you right now.

I will not tell you right now. Are they serving human?

I don't know. Bitch. Bitch. No. I did not know that was part of this.

It's... It's... Part one or part two? Tell me right now.

We'll go with part two. I'll go through it.

You son of a B. so October 17th 1967 what happens this is the first big like oh boy this family is fucked right moment like oh no it's not but I mean like before this you're like it's a gross family yeah like you're just like now we're Yeah, like, before this, you're kind of like, what the, like, what Leatherface's family... looks like before you know that they kill people.

You're like, wow, this is a gross family and I don't want anything to do with it.

Yeah, just like a lot is going on here. Well, October 17th, 1967, David, the younger brother, got his license.

And he's using the trucks that the farm uses, like his dad's truck.

One day he's driving the truck. and he hits a 14 year old boy walking down the street.

This boy's name was Timothy Barrett, and he was walking home from a friend's home.

So David hit him. like pretty hard, and then panicked and drove back home to the farm, leaving this kid bleeding in the middle of the road.

Jesus. Jesus. So he immediately tells his parents, he tells Louise and Leonard, and they just, their first thought is not like, oh, we need to call the police. their first thought is, okay, let's look at the damage on the truck.

So they go out, they see giant damage in the truck.

There's like, they said it was like a bowl-shaped dent somewhere.

Probably from his head. And the truck had blood all over it.

And they did what any parents would do. They had David bring the truck to the family mechanic to fix the dent and paint over the blood.

And the family mechanic was like, sure, sure, sounds good.

And Louise went to look for Timothy. Because she was like, oh, you hit someone?

Where'd you hit him? Okay. I'm going to go find him real quick.

Why? So the mechanic, when David brought the truck to him, was like, okay, what... happened and he was like okay i can fix this dent because he was like which he said it was weird because he's like all their vehicles will like be to shit And he was like, and all the paint was flaking off of them.

And he's like, it was weird that he came in. to fix this one frantically needing me to fix this dent and paint over this stuff like he was like why does this matter to you guys are disgusting like why would this matter Because it's evidence.

So the mechanic's freaked out. He fixes the dent, but he's like, I'm not painting over whatever that is.

He was like, you can figure that out. I'm not painting over that very evident blood.

Yeah, he was like, I'm not getting involved in this.

So David told him I was doing stuff on the farm.

And he said something about like a log fell over and like fell on the front of the thing.

And started bleeding. It's the craziest thing.

It's like so weird. Yeah. And the mechanic was like, yeah, that doesn't match up with the damage.

But like, again, I'm not a police officer.

I don't want to deal with this. So he knew something bad was happened, but he also was really nervous to push it because he was like, the Pictons are fucked and I don't want to be part of this.

Yeah. I don't know what's going on here.

So meanwhile, Louise found Timothy badly hurt, still in the middle of the road, still lying there.

And her motherly instincts told her not to call for medical attention.

But she doesn't have motherly instincts.

But instead... They told her to roll this boy 10 feet off the road into a ditch and then leave him there and go home.

Are you fucking kidding me? Their mother rolled this boy bleeding?

This 14 year old boy in the middle of the road that her son hit with his car. into a ditch and then just went home.

Like, I feel like that makes the problem ten times worse than just calling the police about a hit and run.

Oh, don't worry it did. Because when Timothy's family didn't hear from him...

They formed a search party and called the police, and they eventually stumbled upon his shoe in the middle of the road.

She had not moved to that. it was his father who was a Royal Canadian Air Force member by the way who found his shoe and when he picked it up, he said to his friend who was helping with the search, oh my God, this is Tim's shoe.

Oh no. Which I can't even imagine. No, no, no, no.

So they follow, they can see blood. They follow to the ditch and found Timothy dead in the ditch.

He had been pushed into water at the bottom of the ditch.

His father apparently like collapsed. Obviously.

Dr. C.J. Cody. who is a pathologist at the Royal Columbian Hospital in New Westminster, was the one who performed the autopsy.

And what they found was that Tim had a dislocated and fractured pelvis.

Oh. Which you know about that. Uh-huh. He had hemorrhaging in the back of his head and hemorrhaging all over his body, a fractured skull with a subcranial hemorrhage that, but...

He didn't die from any of those injuries.

And none of those injuries were technically life-threatening.

Yeah, he absolutely could have been saved.

He had died when he drowned in the ditch.

With all of that damage done to his body already.

Louise murdered him. Yes. Now, luckily, the mechanic was watching the evening news, saw this, and he was like...

Oh, no. He was like, this is too much. I feel like this has... So he called the police.

Good. And he was like, I just got to tell you... what happened like he came in he looked for me to do this like there was damage i feel like it's connected he's like let's let's keep this anonymous as fuck.

Yeah, he was like, please don't tell them it's me.

Now, police searched the Picton place and matched paint from their vehicle to Tim's body.

Since he was a juvenile at the time, David was placed on probation and just had his license revoked until 21.

What about Louise? Did they not find out that that's what she did?

Exactly. He was charged with leaving the scene of an accident.

How about the leaving the scene of a death?

But they didn't like... They were just like, oh, he lied.

Yeah. It's insane to me. That's nuts. Insane.

I mean, this woman murdered a child. Yeah.

Like, they are literally demons. All of them.

It's terrifying. It starts from the ground up.

And Tim's poor family. Yeah, it's horrific.

Now let's go to New Year's Eve 1978. Do I want to?

Ding dong, Leonard died. sorry leonard bye leonard it sounds like he sucked he sucked too he was an abusive asshole right So David moved his like apparently like no one was too upset about it.

But David ended up moving his 17-year-old girlfriend Sandy into the house.

And how old is he at this point? He, at this point, I think was 20-something.

Okay. Yeah, like not crazy older, but still.

They ended up having two children together named Tammy and Douglas John, who they called DJ.

They soon split because obviously David is like a monster.

And she moved the kids away with her. Good.

Now, Willie was apparently devastated because he was in love with Sandy.

Bitch. Like obsessed. He had asked her to marry him once. that's not and she was like no thank you she was like i'm actually with your brother she's like No.

And I'm actually on my way out. And she's like, you're actually at like more than disgusting, but thank you.

She's like, so is your brother. And I realized that.

Exactly. So that's interesting. Sandy does come back later, but same year...

In, what was it, 1978, there was a fire on the farm and it killed 600 pigs.

Oh, no. Which is devastating and also devastating to the business.

Like, that's huge. I don't give a fuck about their business.

But just saying. So Willie had begun to have, at this point, he like started to have this like...

It's not normally weird, but for him, I'm like, everything he does is weird.

Yeah. He loved collecting pen pals. in all women.

He only wanted to talk to women. And he actually visited one of his favorites.

A girl named Connie Anderson. And she lived in Pontiac, Michigan, and claimed later...

Later, he claimed that when he went out there to visit her, that he was approached to become a male model.

Honey. But then he turned it down. That's like when the people approach you in the mall and you take it serious.

Yeah. It's just. If that even happens. And he said it was like on the way to Pontiac, Michigan.

Like he stopped in a few areas and he was like, one day I was just walking down the street and they were like, do you want to be in pictures?

And when they said pictures, you don't think they meant horror films?

Like fucking Willie Pickman. Like he's a fucking goblin.

He's the worst. His shit radiates from the inside out.

That's why he's so ugly, because he's so horrific inside.

And it's like... For him to sit there and even now he's just claiming he's going to be a male model.

Like, fuck you, dude. Yeah. Your nickname was Ratface.

Get out of here. He's just the worst. A model for how to not take care of yourself.

He is. And I know what he's done, so, like, I'm able to separate, like... this like sadness for yeah obviously yeah and it's like he's trust me you're gonna be like but yeah And after visiting with Connie, he said he thought they were like, he basically said they were engaged.

He was like, we met each other, we fell in love, we're engaged.

Did Connie later say... Nah. Yeah, later he got home and Connie was like, no, like, we're not engaged.

I think they kind of like... It seemed very juvenile, the whole thing.

Sure. But it's just like an interesting little tidbit.

In 1979 the next year, Louise died from cancer.

R.I.D. A murderer. So Willie was devastated.

He was the only one who was truly devastated, apparently.

Everyone else just kind of moved on. Listen, David's ass better have been devastated.

Yeah, his mom, like that straight up murdered for you.

She really put it all out there for you.

But Willie was really sad because he was really close to his mother.

He had actually taken care of her until her death.

He bathed her. He changed her. He fed her.

Nice of him to bathe her because she didn't bathe him.

Because she didn't bathe you when you were a kid.

But she left, and this is even further of a kick in the ass to Willy.

So she left Linda and David in charge of the farm.

Linda left Yoast. And David is the youngest.

Yeah, that's shitty. Like what? And left them money, but said in her will that only... So Willie was left money as well.

But he couldn't get his money right away.

Only he couldn't get his money right away.

Why? Not until he turned 40, and only if he stayed at the farm until he turned 40.

40? He was... Well, and why? She just did that to be a bitch?

No idea what she thought. I don't know if she was thinking he was, like, irresponsible with her.

Yeah, I don't know if she knew what he was deep down inside and was trying to like stop him from going out in the world or like... stop him from having the available resources to further what he was.

I don't know. Or I don't know if that was just her being like, Fuck you.

I'm just going to fuck with you from the grave.

That's so weird. It's very strange. Now, David at this time, because now they all own the farm.

Linda's moved away still, so she's just kind of dealing with it from afar.

But Willie and Dave now are running this farm.

Right. David had also started a business like delivering topsoil and he was taking it from the farm.

But the farm soil was like all contaminated and shit.

So he was selling like fucked up topsoil.

Yeah, but he didn't give a fuck. But he didn't care.

And he also got another girlfriend named Vicki Evans at the time, and he moved her in.

There's a ton of this like where girls move in here, girls move out.

It's a ton. And Willie was actually good to her two younger sisters who were like young.

They were like 14 and 6. They would come to the farm to see the animals and see the filth.

And I guess he was really good to them. By all accounts, he seemed to be very good with kids, which is very random.

It's always strange. when that's like the one weirdly like not redeemable characteristic but like a the characteristic that you just don't think you're going to see.

So Ed Kemper doesn't. Doesn't Ed Kemper like read children's stories in prison?

He like reads audiobooks. Yeah, it's wild.

Yeah, he's strange. Yeah, he's strange.

He's pretty strange. That's one way to describe Edmund Kemper.

I want to talk to him someday. I do too.

Let's talk. So Willie stopped at this point trying to become like a butcher.

He stopped because he was in like an apprenticeship.

Like that was what they started him on. He was six and a half years into an apprenticeship.

He only had six months to go. Before he would get a certificate that would allow him to work as a butcher anywhere in Canada.

So he could have gotten out of there. And he just stopped.

Yeah, he just stopped. And he started getting junk cars and buying cars at auctions.

Interesting. that he would let just like rot on the farm.

So that's why his mom didn't give him all the money.

And I guess he did get like a small sum up front from his mom, but like that was it.

He wasn't getting the rest until 40. And he was just still being disgusting.

And the farm was getting worse and worse because now there's cars rotting on the property. like the topsoil business is just like there's more trucks in there.

Imagine the topsoil business while the cars are like rotting into the earth. yeah exactly like spilling out like gas and fuel and shit like really damaged people in canada Well, soon their business ventures turned into more and more illegal shit.

So David started dabbling. It's crazy. Let me sit back a little more.

I don't know if you just heard me readjust.

Like I can't, I can't. Let me, Now David started dabbling in demolition.

So he was starting to do like, you know, Is that illegal?

No, this wasn't really illegal. It was just like he was demoing properties and stuff with a company.

But Willie began working with the local Hells Angels.

Yes. And so was David. Now they were having, that's when we get like into the illegal shit.

That's. That's usually when things go awry here.

He was using the farm to store stolen cars there.

Oh, okay. It was like a whole connection thing.

And he would take those stolen cars apart and he would sell the parts.

So it was basically becoming a chop shop. now on the farm.

Yes. So now there's all these cars everywhere, they're all torn apart, there's parts everywhere.

It's illegal. And apparently, though, Willie was very adept at cars.

Oh, like he didn't have any formal training at all, but he was like he could take a party car.

He could put it back together. He could fix anything on it.

It was just something he was very good at.

Interesting. That and slaughtering, apparently.

That's really hard. It is. It's a weird talent to randomly just have.

Yeah, not learn. While this is happening, they're still trying to make the farm run as a pig and meat business.

But it was madness. So they hired some younger guys to work at the farm.

A lot of these guys that they were hiring were like, ne'er-do-wells.

You know what I mean? Like they're not like the cream of the crop here.

No. Willie would basically... say he would pay them and then he would just not pay them like they were always doing scams like that.

But then the Hell's Angels would intimidate them and make them steal cars for them.

So these young kids are coming on the farm and now being forced to steal cars.

They're just being bullied into fucking crime.

Now, the cops at the time kind of knew this was all happening and were basically like, eh, fuck it.

I don't know what to do about it. Like, whatever, I'm not dealing with that shit. heading out to the pinkton farm not heading out i i'd like to keep my lunch in my tummy And like I said, the farm is now becoming a place for ne'er-do-wells to hang out.

Hmm. And Willie ran it like basically anyone, because he had these weird things where he saw himself as like someone who helped people.

Like Robin Hood. Yeah, like he said anyone down on their luck could just come to the farm.

So then it just became... That's how they knew they were down on their luck.

Yeah, that's how you know when you're going to the Picton Farm.

It's actually synonymous with rock bottom.

And at this point, Dave is getting driving violations because as we know from the other story, Dave is not a great driver.

He actually committed sexual assault on a female worker at a construction site. he like somehow like got her into a trailer on the worksite and like sexually assaulted her.

He got a slap on the wrist for that. because his criminal friends started intimidating her to drop the charges.

Oh, that's awful. So he's a piece of shit.

That's why, like, when I said, like, Dave is like...

Like, I don't know. He's probably just a little more quiet about his shit.

So she, this girl, like, ended up moving to another city.

Aw. Like, it was horrible. Now, Hugh is a dick still, and he's starting to date multiple women.

He's abusing women. Like, he's awful too.

Vicky left him after 11 years, which is like, what the fuck?

Why did you stay in there for 11 years? Well, he immediately replaced her. with another woman named Kathy Weyenberg.

She was a mother of two. She and a woman named Karen Kaufman were basically always at the farm during these days.

And there were rager parties on the farm now with like bikers and shit.

It was bonkers. This is not real. This is what I'm talking about.

This doesn't sound real. No, this is not real.

Because this place became like a place for like all the criminals of the underworld to just converge on and just rage.

Like they were just, there was so much drugs on this, like so many drugs on this farm.

There was illegal shit happening all the time.

Like women were getting sexually assaulted.

Like. We'll find out later there's even more shit going on.

It's just... I can't even. When does the meth lab get built?

Honestly, it's probably already there. Now, they would all just like, they would like, dance party have like bonfires and just like all this stuff and but willie Just kind of like hung around.

He was a lurker. He was quiet. Willie was a wallflower.

He was. People said they remember him during these days as being somewhat pleasant, just quiet.

And shy. Like you would hang around for a little while and then not participate.

Okay. One weird thing is that one afternoon, Dave brought Kathy and Karen down to the basement in the house because he was like i want to show you where willie like i wanted to just like show you who willie is And they were like, what?

I'd be like, I don't know who Willie is.

Willie's bedroom was in the basement. And it's like a whole farmhouse.

And they were like, you stay in the basement.

It was dark and dank and like filthy in there, of course.

He only had a mattress on the floor. That's it.

The mattress had a large dark stain in the middle of it.

Okay. Which I just have to like take a moment.

It's probably just like sweat. Just all kinds of shit.

Oh, my God. I am going to. I will be shocked if by part three I haven't thrown up once.

He also had one book of local history. And then he also had a taxidermied horse head on the wall.

And it was his horse, Goldie, who he loved.

And he had taxidermy after he died. All right.

Now, they're standing there and Dave is basically showing them like...

My brother's real gross. Like and being like they were like he was like, I know that he's very quiet and like unassuming, but like don't trust him.

Okay. Which they were like, okay. While they're standing there, Willie showed up.

And you didn't go into Willie's room. That was a no-no.

What was he hiding? All kinds of shit. Well, he said, if you bring them here again, I'll kill both of them. okay like he literally said that and they were like oh i'd be like we'll be going now Then over dinner that night, he threw a glass of milk in Karen's face.

Like, just out of nowhere. Okay. Yeah. Rude.

And after that, she stopped coming to the farm.

She was like, I have had enough of that.

That's weird. And she said rumors started circling that the Picton brothers were making snuff films.

And that the meat on the farm was not just animal meat.

And she said she would never eat meat from that farm.

She was like, I wouldn't do that even when I was hanging at the farm.

My God. Mm hmm. Oh, my God. They supplied meat to a lot of Canada.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yep. they yeah yeah and i don't i oh this is ready for the you want to hear no no just Just give me a second, can you?

Let me cement more into you what kind of people we're dealing with.

At the end of their property line, there was a sign saying, That said, we're trash.

No trespassing. Pit bull with AIDS. So these are the kind of people we're talking about.

In case anybody feels any kind of like, oh, these people are just like weird and like fucked up don't feel bad for them just in case because like I know sometimes when you hear about like a sad childhood it's hard to like separate this is not hard to disassociate let me just tell you these are the lowest of the low shitheads that's so shitty yeah Now, around this time, Willie started bringing parts left over from slaughter to a rendering plant. called West Coast Reduction.

Rendering plants basically render down the leftover It's like you drop off the leftover portions you can't use after slaughter, like bones, feathers. you know, hair, all that shit.

And they like render it down into gelatin a lot of times and it's used in like candy. and makeup and like other things that like people to use, which is fine because usually they check these things.

They make sure that they're like, whatever buckets are coming in are like what they say they are uh but he did it so often that he became kind of irregular and they wouldn't even check his buckets.

Oh, no. So they would just wave him in.

So there was like a dead body in your mascara.

When he couldn't bring them there himself, like sometimes when he couldn't get a car, like he just didn't want to or he couldn't.

He would have like the rendering plant drivers because they would come and like pick up your stuff.

Yeah. And they bring them in for them. And one worker named Jim Kress recalled picking up some barrels for Willie.

Mm-hmm. And he said after a while, he noticed that there was like legit meat in the buckets.

And he was like... You don't render down meat like you save meat or like not human.

It doesn't make sense. And then he said the meat appeared black. and in large portions.

Is it like people's organs? It could have been like decay.

Yeah. Or it could have been somebody that had black skin.

It also could have been somebody that had been beaten.

And their skin had turned black. It could have been somebody that was burned.

Any number of things. Because he said...

It was weird. He didn't want to look at it and he just kind of like moved about.

He said it was really scary and he didn't want to.

Did he take those buckets? I think he got rid of those ones, but he said it was weird.

He was like, there shouldn't be meat in rendering buckets.

And he said it was like a lot of meat. Okay.

Yeah. So when Willie began going to this rendering plant pretty regularly, it was in town and it was...

In a place called the Downtown Eastside in Vancouver.

It was a pretty well-known... like block of like basically where a lot of sex workers were There was a lot of areas that were like very well-known like drug hangouts, like places people could get drugs.

Yeah. It was just like there were parts that were very... Just like not the best parts in town. very scary there were other parts that were like fine but like there was just you know there was a lot going on Um, so during this time that he's going down here, he started looking for sex workers because he's like, I'm here.

I'm lonely. Why not? Yeah. So he started picking them up regularly.

Oh my God. Imagine if you were a sex worker and Willie Pickton was like you.

You. I'd be like, no, you couldn't give me enough money.

Oh yeah. There's plenty of women that were like, no, thank you, sir.

Oh. Thank you, sir. No, sir. No, sir. No, sir.

No, sir. So, yeah, it's no good. Ew. I need you to just...

Yeah. Yeah. I really, I don't love it. How did you research this?

There's a lot. Also. Why did you want to hear about this guy?

There's so much. I'm not shaming you. at all remember so karen had moved out she was not coming to the farm anymore milk to the face now kathy the one who was living there with Dave at that point, she moved out with her two daughters eventually.

Oh my God, she had daughters? She had two daughters.

Now, the farm was getting worse and worse by this point.

I love that every few paragraphs it's like, Now the farm was getting worse.

It's getting even worse. And it does. It gets worse.

Now it's legitimately littered with old rotting cars and just garbage everywhere.

Dave started forcing his employees like his drivers or people who worked on the farm to participate in stealing cars for him like on the regular now.

Every night the farm was a fucking madhouse.

There was just all the drivers and workers would come back and party and And like the bikers would come like drugs every, it just became every single night.

It is. insane. Yeah, and they basically, everybody who came said they just knew Willie as, like, the dirty...

Stinky, quiet, weird guy. That's just what they all do.

And Dave was like a giant asshole to Willie, even though he was a younger brother.

He would just allow people to steal shit out of his room and stuff.

He was just a dick. People just teased him and treated him like shit.

So he did develop a crazy, insane temper because he was just constantly having to fight people.

Yeah. And at one point Dave and him, they got in fights all the time.

They just did not get along. And it's interesting because like it didn't seem like throughout his childhood he showed any like rage or anger.

No, there isn't any real like indication of that.

No. Other than like the pig. Yeah, exactly.

I think that was how he got through it almost.

Him and Dave had this huge knockdown drag out fight and Dave kicked Willie out of the house.

Was like, get out. Oh. So Willie ended up sleeping on a freezer in the barn for literally months.

Oh, wow. And he just didn't care. He was like, whatever, I'll sleep on here.

Okay. Like that was probably like, he was like, cool.

Now, David... ended up buying some mobile homes for his business, like the demolition business that they put on the job sites.

And he let Willie live in one in the back of the property because he was like, here, now we can be like...

Because, you know, we can stay away from each other now and everyone has a place to stay.

You have your privacy. Like they kind of were trying to like mend it. yeah just make it better they're brothers and he willie was like very happy with it cool So eventually he moved his motor home to where the demolition Dave was doing, like on the job site.

Because he was starting to work for Dave, like helping with the demolition.

And dump people in the demolition. This was in North Vancouver.

So he was like, why not just like sleep on the job site?

Cool. and he just drove it out to the work site and parked it there and then he would also he was very close to downtown area so and that was the reason he did it yeah because then he would just drive into the area pick up sex workers it became kind of a routine for him Now, this is also when he started hanging out in motel bars and like really seedy places to pick up vulnerable people.

Mm hmm. He liked the Astoria Hotel in Hastings, which was apparently a very regular hangout for very interesting characters.

And he would just kind of hang out. He would buy everyone drinks because he had tons of money.

Wow. And he would bring girls home. That was just like his thing.

He had tons of cash because they were genuinely making shit tons of money.

And he was kind of like using it to like make people want to hang out with him. why wouldn't you just use it to get yourself a house and a shower?

Because I think they liked as much as, like, obviously, like... you know his brother was a dick i think like people were genuinely fine to him like nobody was like really mean to him except for dave And I think everybody just kind of thought he was weird, but they just kind of put up with him.

I think he liked... who he was. Like, he liked being disgusting.

He liked being filthy. He liked being a fucking dick.

I just can't wrap my head around it yeah but i can't wrap my head around not wanting to feel clean yeah Now, I can't either.

I cannot. I really can't either. Now, around this time is when a record number. of mostly indigenous sex workers were going missing.

And nothing was being done about it. Nothing was really being looked into.

It was kind of like they're less dead because of their lifestyle.

Of course. And... But it was becoming a point where people were like, there's like a serial killer out here.

We're not even seeing bodies most of the time.

Sometimes there would be bodies, but a lot of times they just disappeared.

Right, because they were in Dave's demolition sites.

Well, this woman named Kim Penderton was a police reporter for the Vancouver Sun, and And she, with another reporter, Neil Hall, were, like, adamant to get the police to take Indigenous women, especially those working as sex workers, disappearances seriously yeah so they hounded police about it They kept writing about the cases and they were just trying to bring attention to it.

They interviewed the family members, really got to know each of these women, who they were, wrote pieces about them to humanize them, because...

They, again, had been seen as less dead and less human because of their jobs and their circumstances. sometimes of who they were, like just native.

So it's like in 1987, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Force They did make a task force that they were going to investigate at least 17 disappearances and murders in the area. you finally um and in by 1989 they had pretty much given up on this task force.

Awesome. I believe the task force was called like Project Amelia.

Oh. Was the first one. Later, it becomes Project Evenhanded.

And that's, like, the one that actually, like, did something.

Mm-hmm. So that's going on. This is in the background.

In the background of this story is all of these missing women.

But realistically at the forefront of the story.

While Willie is... is doing his thing yeah and eventually it all just gets brought to the forefront Now let's talk about a woman named Lisa Yelds.

She was 38 years old. when she met Willie, and her son was friends with Willie's nephew, And the way that they met was that on one evening, I think it was New Year's Eve actually, She called the Picton home looking for her son and wanting him to come home because he hadn't called.

It was New Year's Eve. She was worried about him.

And you said her son was friends with the nephew.

Exactly. Dave's son, DJ. Okay. Okay. So Willie did her solid.

He was like, I'll find him and I'll bring him home for you.

Like, I'm going to help you out. So because I think the Picton farm was only like a few houses down from hers.

Okay. They became fast friends. Like, she appreciated it.

They just got to talking. They formed a real bond.

Like they were not in a relationship, like a sexual relationship.

They were just very bonded. She would go to the farm from there on out.

She would help him out. She would try to clean up his motorhome farm.

She became the voice of reason, like talking him down when he needed talking down. telling him that he was disgusting and stinky when he was disgusting and stinky.

And, like, she was the only one he would listen to.

Okay. Almost like a mother figure. Yeah.

Like, there was times when, like, he respected her, it seems.

Or like a sister, even. Yeah. Yeah. So she would like randomly just be like, dude, you're fucking gross.

You gotta take a shower. I can smell you.

Like, please just go do something. And he would be like, okay.

What's weird is people said that he took care of his teeth really well.

That's just like an interesting. Maybe he like didn't like the taste of bad breath.

But it's like, you already fell, like... like just basement goblin who like rolls around in your own shit and pig shit and like other things.

And then you're like, gotta brush your teeth.

Well, teeth things hurt. They do, that's true.

So maybe he didn't want to get shit, like maybe he had a bad experience and was like i'm not doing that again because i'm just shocked by it it's just like it doesn't seem like something that would be high on the priority list no it definitely doesn't just very weird But also, I feel like he didn't want to spend his money fixing his teeth.

No, he definitely didn't. So he was like, I'll just do that myself.

Good point. So he said they became so close they were like siblings, but she said it always... This is just funny now.

Yikes. She said it always bothered her how much he reminded her of Ed Gein.

What the fuck? Which, like, you never...

Yeah. Your brother friend shouldn't remind you.

Yeah. You never want someone who's very close to you.

Like. To have an Ed Gein vibe. No, let's never keep the Ed Gein kind of company.

Yeah, remove the people from your life that remind you of Ed Gein.

That's just my personal advice. Yeah, I think it works.

I think it's a nice blanket statement. I don't know.

I agree. She said that both Dave and Willie were super paranoid about cops. whenever they were driving or doing anything.

And she assumed it was just all the shady dealings at the farm.

And she was like, they're probably just always worried about them showing up.

Yeah. But now she knows it was definitely a lot more than that, especially when he was driving.

Like Willie was very concerned about a cop pulling him over.

Oh, yeah. In the same book, like, At the Farm.

Lisa said, I always had this thought in the back of my mind that Willie could be a serial killer. why and then she said but I was never afraid of him myself I knew he would never hurt me That is a lot of faith in somebody to keep.

Sure is. That is keeping a lot of faith in your friend.

Like... There's never been a point where I've been like, I always wondered if my friend was a serial killer, but like...

I didn't do anything about it. I can't even think of one friend adjacent.

No. That would be like that was like serial killer ask.

Like if you think your friend might be a serial killer, like evaluate.

Even if you think your friend's friend is a serial killer. also evaluate evaluate dad if anyone you are in contact with yeah seems to be serial killer-esque do something well and apparently dave was a big dick to lisa like he did not like lisa and i think he didn't like her because like she was Nice to Willie.

Yeah. I think it was like something weird with he hated it.

He was such a dick to his brother. He probably had like a comp. where he needed to be the better brother.

Yeah, I think it was weird. Like a little man's complex because he's the younger one Or like Willie's not allowed to have like female attention or something like that, even if it's just like a friend.

Yeah, because it seems like he liked to like collect women.

Yeah. And she ended up working in like the slaughterhouse with Willie.

Like she was really just like working on the farm now.

Okay. Wouldn't want to do that. She said that Dave would greet her as, quote, hi, you fucking loser.

How are you? What the fuck? I'd be like, great loser.

How the fuck are you? Like, what the fuck?

Well, by now, Willie was buying, selling, slaughtering animals and was also doing the demolition business, fixing cars, auctioning cars. doing the chop shop and then started a cockfighting ring on the farm as well.

That's not okay. They would have huge parties and cockfights.

People would bet on them and the Pictons would get admission money.

They would sell beer and food and also portions.

They would get portions of the profits from the bedding.

What the fuck? This is fucked. And the way they describe it, it's like this horrific... I mean, cockfighting is...

Not something I even want to go into. No, I don't want to talk when they describe it in the book.

It's just this horrific, horrific event. that everyone it just was and it attracts like the worst of the worst how do you stand there and watch something like that and go put your head on a pillow at night I don't know.

I really don't know. If I walk by Franklin without petting him, I think to myself, you're a fucking asshole you better backward step and pet the shit out of that cat pet the shit out of that cat.

Literally, I walked by him the other day and I was like, oh, you're so cute.

And then I didn't pet him and I was like, oh.

I gotta go pet him. I gotta love you. Yeah, I don't understand.

What is wrong with people? Well, they were hiring tons of people for the farm and also their various businesses that they were running.

But they're not paying a lot of these people.

They're just like fucking with them. Yeah.

So all the workers were either... they were like drunk 24-7 or on drugs while working.

And they're working with like heavy, dangerous equipment, driving vehicles.

And soon these workers are getting pissed because they're not getting paid.

Right. So now they're having all these enemies forming.

These... workers are stealing some of the equipment to sell to get their money.

Yeah. So now the Pictons are losing more money than they're making sometimes because people are stealing all the shit.

It's just mayhem. It's a dumpster fire on a dumpster fire on a dumpster fire.

And they're constantly having vehicles wrecked by these people, so they're having to deal with insurance and shit.

Like, everyone was dirty, terrible, and no one trusted anyone on this farm.

It was just fucking... You know what it is?

What? It's worse than a dumpster fire. It's a sewer fire.

It is. It's like, yeah. It's, ugh. Well, I just can't.

I really can't. There should be a TLC show about this.

Well, and while this is all happening and again, Remember, in Vancouver at this time, all these women are going missing.

So the sex workers took shit into their own hands because no one's helping them.

Yeah, you gotta protect them. each other so they knew there was at least one serial killer at large preying on sex workers imagine knowing that as a sex worker yeah And so what they did was they started forming buddy systems.

They were in teams. They were writing down license plates.

They were taking note of everybody that everyone went to hell yeah and they decided to help each other out and do like a bad date list where they would add the list, like the name of a man that was like a bad John.

Like, you know, like just if they were aggressive.

Got a weird vibe. yeah anything that was bad they would add them to the list so everyone would know They were really trying to do their own thing because they're just trying to work.

Willie Pickton must have been somewhere on those lists.

He ended up on that list. Now, in 1991, this is just like something that I was like, oh... families of the missing women and advocates for them organized a Valentine's Day walk to remember them.

The missing and murdered women. And they would do it like every year.

Yeah. And I don't know if it still goes on now.

I'll have to check that. But in 1996, Dave was like doing demolition at a country bar and nightclub.

That needed to be torn down. He decided, he was like, hmm, why don't I make my own bar? because I don't have anything else going on.

And why not? Not like I have 87 other hats on at the moment.

Not like I have a cockfighting ring at my house.

But so he he's demolishing this country bar and thinking about his own.

And he starts removing material from the, yes, he starts removing stuff from it.

Like he was like, I'm going to remove, you know, parts of the bar and parts of the dance floor and I'll make my own.

On my property. So he makes a janky used bar.

Yeah. So he figured it would be a huge draw because the cockfights and shit drew so many people to the farm and people are already raging at this farm and he's already got the Hells Angels and their associates always on the It's wild that he didn't already have a bar.

Yeah, so he's like I might as well just have one and make money off of it.

So he had a piece of land that they had bought around the corner from the farm on Burns Road.

And they got this guy named Scott Chubb and Marty DeWinter to help.

Obviously. Obviously Scott Chubb was running the show.

Scott Chubb. This is literally like Pawn Stars, like chumly.

I just... Chun-Li's running around all over the place.

I literally can't. This shit is so fucked.

It's so weird. Well, you know, Scott Chubb and Marty De Winter, they helped him build this place and they named it after what everyone called their father in them.

Piggy. So they decided it would be called Piggy's Palace.

I'm vomiting. Because they're gross. I am vomiting. because they're fucking gross how do you find yourself at piggy's palace I need to know so many people did I need to know how they found themselves there Piggy's Palace was fucking hopping.

Musical groups came and performed there.

That's heinous. Not like fancy ones, but like musicians.

Obviously not. Like off-duty police officers would go there sometimes. it's i'm just saying you know what i would love to know what was dave paying taxes Oh, I guarantee you he wasn't.

Every time you were like, a new business, a new business, a new business, I was like...

This motherfucker is not paying taxes. Does he have an accountant?

How do you keep track of all this? that business you don't work you just don't pay it like you think fucking chubb is gonna get together your w2s no i don't think scott chubb was gonna do it no Well, what they did was they used an old dilapidated barn and they redid it all.

So they used material from the demolition of the other club and restaurant and built a bar, a dance floor, kitchen there was actually seating for up to 150 people in there wow a disco ball was hung of course And they decked it out.

They decorated it. They made it like a real bar.

And they did full food. Lots of barbecue, of course.

Never in my life would I eat at Chumlee.

Lots of barbecue. Piggy barn. Piggy's Palace.

No. Piggy's Palace. No. Lisa Yelds actually worked as a waitress there for a bit.

She said Dave was an absolute dickwad to her awesome they had one of the most known criminals in the area working the door and he was a known crack cocaine dealer okay Cops frequented the place in their off time, even though it was a known haunt for drugs, illegal shit, and like criminals. maybe they were like crooked cops yeah of course they were there was a lot back then I'm sure it has changed by now quite a bit from what it was.

There was a lot back then, just period. Not even literally across the board.

A lot of everything back then. Well, David and Willie, this is where it's hilarious.

David and Willie registered the new business under the name.

I know. No. No. Piggy's Palace Good Times Society.

I just really can't anymore. Good times, society.

Like, what the fuck? Fucking losers. Can you imagine getting your based up for Nikki's Godless Good Times Society?

Losers. That's just unbelievable. Piggy's Palace Good Times Society, man.

Like, wow. I have to pee really bad and that just sent me.

Well, they registered it as a charity. Yeah.

They said it would be used to raise money for service organizations by having huge ragers and shit.

That's what they were going to do. Oh, so I wonder if that's how they got away with it.

I think that's how they got away with it.

Also, I don't really know how taxes work in Canada.

I think they were able to, like, use this, like, charitable thing.

But the Hells Angels took it over a lot and nothing was being sent to Jerusalem. organizations.

Clearly. They would have parties of like 1700 people there.

Jesus. And they would just rage. And there's only seating for 150 people.

Yeah. And the neighbors around here, like all the surrounding areas, would complain because it was madness.

In 2000, like just jumping ahead, they did and the city of Port Coquitlam actually shut it down.

So that's good. Wow. So no more Piggy's Palace.

It's a funny society. I was like, oh, not that long ago.

And then I was like, oh. 21 years ago. I know it doesn't feel like it was.

No. Now this is around the time that Willie ended up getting a new, bigger mobile home.

So that's good for him. Upgrade. It had more room, had an office in there for him.

And he parked it in the back of the Picton farm again.

So now he's on the property again. I don't know why.

I don't know. I just don't know. Well, you do know. became more and more known to the neighbors and people around town as a weird, scary guy, because now he's not becoming like he's not just the quiet guy anymore now he's getting a little weird and scary what's he doing that's weird He could be super nice, but also he would use his farm equipment loudly into the night.

And never cared if families complained of the noise.

He was like, fuck off. were several complaints from the new houses built on the property like around the property uh-huh that the stench from the Picton's farm was literally permeating their home.

And they were like, something needs to be done about it.

And at this point, it was definitely bodies.

But the Picton brothers just didn't give a shit.

Wow. Now, Lisa moved away with her kids at this point.

She was like, I have to head. out because she said this whole like piggies palace good time society situation was like getting a little too much She just didn't want to be totally involved in it anymore.

And she didn't end up coming to the farm a lot after this.

She kind of like pulled back a little because she could see that like weird shit was happening.

Because she thought her friend had serial killer vibes.

Well, and what we'll learn is that she saw some shit.

And so she was not, she wanted to get away from there and we'll learn that.

Don't worry. Um, And she said, so Willie, you know, lost his good friend, basically.

She was living there. Like, that was like... his, like, sister.

Yeah, so he basically was like, I need to replace her with someone else.

So he replaced her with another girl he knew named Gina.

He Gina Houston was basically trying... She was... I think she worked as a sex worker at one point...

But she kind of just started using Willie as like a sugar daddy.

Okay. Which a lot of these women were doing.

They kind of see that he had a lot of money.

Can you imagine? And they just kind of use him for it.

If Willie picked in. What's your sugar daddy?

Like Willie Pickton's buying your Louis bags.

No. unreal no unreal nope don't want that oh i don't want that at all i don't want anything to my brain thought about that the more irked i got i don't want it oh man no thank you Oh, man.

Well, she was basically, her job was kind of to try to get women to come back to the farm for Willie.

At this point, that became like one of her jobs.

So she's a pimp. Kind of. Yeah. And at one point she claimed, so Gina Houston is a real piece of work.

Clearly. And she, like, she had kids. She was just like, she was a lot. she was a lot yeah um at one point she claimed that they were engaged even though they did not like they were never engaged weird she was using the name gina picton at one point yeah uh she just wanted his money That's all this was.

She saw him as like, ooh, he's an easy target.

She wanted to attach herself to that. Now, apparently some of the women were looking out for each other, especially in downtown Eastside, and they were making sure that Gina stayed away from places where these girls were hanging out.

Oh, so like Gina- Some of the older sex workers were kind of like, no, stay away from them.

Because they were kind of like... i know what you're doing you're trying to lure them back to the farm and weird shit we don't want them out the yeah they were like weird shit's happening there i don't want them there Now, soon he added another girl onto his list of like girls that would like lure. other girls in her name was dina taylor and she had once tried to lure lure this girl named lynn out to where willie and her were this girl lynn who had like kind of come to the farm a lot um And she had once tried to lure her, she told us this story later, out with them.

And to this day, this girl Lynn swears it was to kill her.

Like she was like, I know and we'll see why.

Like Lynn is like a fixture on the farm for a little while and then kind of leaves.

But she said when Dina called, she was like, I knew.

Like when Dina called, I was like, oh, something's fucked up.

Like, so this is who Dina was. Oh, my God.

Dina was another piece of work. Left town.

Yeah, she was a scary, scary lady. And just like Gina, Dina was using Willy for money. and she knew his pin number his girls are gina and gina that just hit me gina and dina And she knew his PIN number and she could get cash and clothing and drugs from him whenever she wanted.

And she started getting the same treatment Gina did.

Everyone knew that she was trying to lure these girls out to the farm, so they made her leave places.

Like they were trying to protect girls. I love that there's like an army of sex workers just like protecting each other.

I think they really did. They were really trying to protect each other.

It was crazy. That's like my favorite part of the story.

Yeah, it really was. And one of Willie's things was like...

He didn't do drugs and neither did Dave, I guess.

Neither of them really drank that much. But they wanted to be surrounded by it all the time.

And also... Willie had a thing where he liked to buy these sex workers, and especially drug-addicted ones, more drugs, because...

He wanted to be like, yeah. And he also wanted to be seen as like this like hero figure.

Yeah. He was very... He had such a weird complex of, like...

His personality is just very strange. It would be interesting to psychologically evaluate him because...

He had such weird like delusions of who he was as a person.

He really thought he was like this great person that everybody should just want to be around.

Now, Gina did say later that one time she went onto the farm to get a pig that she had helped butcher.

And there was a large freezer in the barn, the butchering barn that was covered in a blanket.

And there was a bunch of tools laying on top.

And she started kind of like walking towards it because she was like, what the fuck is this?

And she said, Willie didn't say a word, but just looked at her and shook her head.

Shook his head and she just backed off and never asked.

But she was like, I know some shit was in there because he just looked at her like, no, don't look in there. what the fuck yeah i like i don't i don't know how to why yeah i just what oh yeah So then we come up to a woman named Tracy Byen.

She was almost a victim of Willie's in 1996.

Who wasn't at this point? Now, she had seen Willie a ton at the Astoria Motel.

And she knew he was there and picking up girls all the time.

So one night he picked her up for he said he would pay her for a sex act.

So she was like, sure. So she said she went into the trailer and her quote. from the book that I mentioned earlier was it smelled terrible.

It smelled of animals, like barn animals.

And then he took me out to his trailer, which was fucking disgusting.

As soon as you got in the kitchen, you couldn't go any further.

There was clothes everywhere. the kitchen had a big counter with a sink and a little propane heater the parking lot was built at the side of the trailer As you came in, the kitchen was right there and on the left was the rest of the building.

What I could see was just the kitchen. I couldn't go any further.

He said, let's go in there. But I couldn't get past all the mess.

So they then they just did their thing. And then suddenly Willie pulled out a knife and accused her of stealing his wallet.

And she was like, what? He then used the knife to cut two buttons off of her shirt.

And she ended up getting the fuck out of there.

And suddenly he just suddenly turned it off after that.

And he was like, I'll drive you back downtown.

Oh my God, I'd be like, no. And on the way there, on the way back downtown, because she was like, I have to get back downtown.

What am I going to do? to do and they've probably been through this kind of shit before like crazy men right and uh On the way back downtown he told her how he loved to help working girls get off drugs but he said if they slip up once they don't deserve to live.

Oh my God. So she was like, okay. She's like, I'm going to go ahead and add that name to the list.

Bye. And I'm going to tell you two other stories before we end for part two.

I'm ready to end. So March 10th, 1997, 25-year-old Kara Ellis disappeared.

Now, she had been working as a sex worker and also was deeply addicted to drugs at the time.

Yeah. This is relevant because her good friend Maggie Guile, who had gotten herself clean recently after 30 attempts at getting clean.

Wow, good for her. was determined to get her friend Kara clean as well.

And she wanted to get her out of her life downtown Eastside.

She was like, I want none of this for you.

They had been roommates in a previous rehab center, but Kara had relapsed hard. fallen right back into everything.

And she was staying at a place called the Vernon Rooms in Vancouver. but what everybody there knew and what the girls called the Hoden. where management ran the place super cruelly.

Horrible. They would charge these women money to basically like work in these rooms.

So essentially they were pimps and then they started working in drugs So they demanded the girls living in this place bought drugs exclusively from them.

And if they got drugs outside of the home, they would be severely beaten for it.

God, what the fuck kind of place is this?

I don't even know that exists. That's why I'm telling you go read that book because this book will like go into so much more detail and tells you so many more different places in this in Vancouver like at this time that were like underground places you know that you would never know about if you didn't read and right yeah i'm telling you it's amazing Now, Kara had been through this several times, and on the last time that she was caught with drugs that were not bought in the home,

She ended up in the hospital. They beat her so bad she ended up in the hospital.

Yeah. Now, she saw her friend Maggie in March, and she tried to get her to enter recovery with her, but Kara refused.

She said that this was the last time anyone saw her alive.

She had family though, and she was still in touch with her siblings and their kids and her parents.

They all lived in Calgary. And when she went missing, they didn't notice right away because they said she kept in touch, but she would go long periods of time without talking.

Mm-hmm. When her sister-in-law went to file a missing persons report in August 1997, They basically told her, sure, we'll file it, but she's a sex worker.

I don't know what you want me to do. She's also a drug addict.

So they just didn't give a fuck. And that was it.

She was later tied into the victims of Willie Pickton.

Wow. Now, this last story I will tell you before we end for part two is the one that I was like, what, what?

Whoa, hun. So March 22nd, 1997, a 31 year old sex worker whose name is under a publication ban We don't know her name because you cannot publish it.

She was working in Vancouver's downtown Eastside.

We'll call her Emily. I'm just going to call her Emily.

Yeah. She was a mother of two and ran into Willie Pickton while down on her luck.

She had a boyfriend who was really cruel and demanded money from her often.

She had a very intense drug addiction. It required her to inject speed balls up to five times a day.

And she had gambled her last 60 bucks away before she ran into Willie.

He saw her on the street in the downtown Eastside and offered her a hundred bucks to come back to the farm for a sex act.

He promised to bring her back in an hour and she was psyched because she was going to be getting more money than what she lost.

Right. So she could bring that back to her boyfriend.

It's just like really sad. That is very sad.

So she got in his red pickup truck and on the way to the farm she noticed a bra on the seat.

And when she asked what that was all about, he said another working girl had left it.

Like, cool. She already had a bad feeling.

And when she went into his trailer, she noticed, like everyone else, it was disgusting and filthy.

And then she saw a huge butcher knife just like laying on the counter.

Oh, God. And she was like, of course, everybody like uses knives for like cooking and shit.

Not everybody leaves them out. When she was like, it gave me a weird vibe.

But he led her to his bedroom. The bedroom had only a sleeping bag on the floor and a roll of plastic sheeting.

Next to the sleeping bag. What the actual fuck?

And she was like, oh... And she panicked and asked if she could use the phone to call her boyfriend and just let him know that she would be late. and he refused to let her use the phone.

He did allow her to use the phone, To look up the number because she was like, I just need to write it down so I can call him at the pay phone because he had told her like, I'll drop you off at this gas station and you can use the phone.

Right. So he grabbed her from behind while she was looking at this phone book and forced her one of her hands into handcuffs.

Like straight up Ted Bundy style, like one hand in cuffs and she was able to get the other one.

So it was hanging like the cuffs were on her wrist.

Oh my God. fought and he began like beating her like she had she was he was literally punching her in the face oh my god And she had him back.

She basically was like, all right, I got to get to that butcher knife.

So she basically had him back her up towards where she remembered the knife was.

And then she reached behind her, grabbed it, and sliced him in the cheek and neck with it.

Good. Like ended up really doing a shit ton of damage.

Too bad she literally didn't murder him.

Well and she ended up blacking out. And she obviously didn't know why at the time, but at one point she woke up outside still fighting him.

What? Yeah. And he was blacking out from blood loss.

And what happened was he had stabbed her.

In the like abdomen, the hand, like several times she had been stabbed and she had blacked out from blood loss.

So she probably had so much adrenaline running through her veins.

She just kept going. She didn't know that she had even been stabbed.

Exactly. And now he's losing blood. So he's blacking out while this whole thing is happening.

And eventually she was able to wrestle the knife from him again and run towards the street.

And she said she ended up running to a home across the street, but no one answered the door.

So she's just like... banging on the door trying to like break a window basically, like just let me in.

Literally. Well, an elderly couple was driving by and saw her and the man, this elderly man jumped out of the car to help her.

Oh, and he she he like basically was like, get in the backseat, like got her in the backseat.

And she told him, see that farm right there?

And he was like, yup. And she said... She said, if I die, the person who lives in a trailer on that farm did it.

What? Like told her. And then this guy later said that when she was running, he could see her intestines coming out of her ass.

That's how badly she was like in. Oh my gosh.

Yeah. Oh my gosh, that makes my stomach hurt.

Yeah, exactly. The elderly woman called 911 and they met them.

911, so they could just start going to the hospital.

Her intestines are falling out. It's insane.

Yeah, it's crazy. And the couple... told the police that she had told them that the man who did this had also been stabbed.

So they were like, just so you know. So, she went into emergency surgery at Royal Columbian Hospital in Westminster.

She was stabbed four times, two in the abdomen, one in the arm, and one in her rib, which punctured her lung.

While they're working on Emily, they tell the doctors that another stabbing patient is coming in, And look at that.

It's Willie Picton, who was sent there from a smaller hospital that he had gone to.

Because they didn't have the resources to treat him because she had fucked him up.

Hell yeah. Now they found the key. She still had the handcuff attached to her wrist.

This is like the Cindy Hindi shit. Yes. They found the key to the handcuffs in his pocket when they were like getting his clothes.

What? they immediately, the police go over to her while she's like in surgery or like going into surgery. they go up and they use the key on the handcuff and it opens.

Like that's how they realized it was the same.

So they immediately get a search warrant for the property.

He said some bitch had stabbed him and that's the story.

That's what his story was. Some bitch stabbed me.

And he basically said, like, some druggie, like, you know... like sex worker he probably said like something terrible about it of course um He was taken home, Willie, he was treated for like three days. was taken home after they realized the fucking key in his pocket opened those handcuffs oh yeah Because he's claiming, well, she's a druggie, like, sex worker woman.

And he's basically saying, like, she attacked me.

And he's saying she tried to rob me. So they're not going to believe her.

And he has injuries. So now he's saying, like, I was just defending myself.

Wow. Yeah, so Dave actually took him home a few days later And they called in Lisa Yelds again to clean up the bloody trailer. and take care of him.

So she came back. Yes, so she came back.

Meanwhile, Willie's version of the events was again that Emily had approached him, not that he had approached her. and that she had demanded $200 up front. then saw money in his trailer and threatened him with a knife to give her the cash, so he defended himself and she ran.

That was his story. The entire time Lisa was taking care of him, He was telling her to find out where Emily lived so he could take care of her.

Why was Lisa still continuing to come back and clean?

I'm not going to do that. And she was basically like, I thought he was just mad because she had stabbed him in the face and like the neck.

And like he had like 150 stitches and like I guess I guess it had broken some of his teeth.

Oh, he was probably pissed because he loved his teeth.

He loved his teeth. So she was like, I assumed he was just mad and was just saying things.

Yeah. But April 8th, 1997, he was charged with attempted murder.

Good. unlawful confinement, and aggravated assault.

The charges were dropped for why. Because she's a sex worker and a drug addict.

The fact that that shit happened, like probably still happens, is so fucked up to me.

Yep. Like, I guess that was basically like what it was and she felt like That wasn't gonna matter.

So I think she also just didn't show up to court.

So they were like Well, she was probably too scared to.

Well, that's the other thing because she was being intimidated.

She probably just like ran away. Which I don't blame her.

That's the beginning of Willie Pickton's reign of terror.

The fact that that... Is the beginning.

Yeah. That's the beginning. How many victims are there? uh that 49 are killed 49 women are killed and let me tell you he he was sad he didn't get that even 50

So who was 50 supposed to be? Did he have somebody that was supposed to?

No, he just wanted the number. He didn't like that.

He didn't like that. It was 49. Are you kidding me?

Yeah, and don't worry. We'll find out how we know that in part two.

I'm so stressed out. All right. Part two.

We have an Instagram, I think, right? Is that how?

We have an Instagram. We do that. That's how that works.

And also, you know what, if I can squeeze, just to put this out there, if I can squeeze it into two parts, I will, but I really think this will be three.

But our Instagram is at morbidpodcast. And that's up on Twitter.

At Amorbid Podcast. Send us a Gmail. Morbidpodcast at gmail.com.

And we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it moving.

Weird! But never as weird as they kept it on their farm because you will get arrested and you will be in trouble.

Goodbye. Do not be a Picton. Don't even be a Pictim adjacent.

Use soap. And water. Thank you. If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

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Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.

[캐나다의 악마, 로버트 윌리엄 픽튼의 기괴한 농장과 시작된 연쇄살인]-[Episode 210: Willie Pickton Part 1]

📋 Summary

로버트 윌리엄 픽튼: 악의 근원과 '피기스 팰리스'의 실체

1. 픽튼 가문의 혐오스러운 환경: '더러움'이 일상이 된 삶

2. 끔찍한 사업과 '피기스 팰리스(Piggy’s Palace)'

3. 살인의 서막: 1997년의 결정적 사건

결론: 사회적 무관심이 낳은 비극

🎯Key Sentences

📝Key Phrases

📖 Transcript