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I have been listening to the Martha's Vineyard Beach and Book Club, which actually Elena recommended to me.
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Hey weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Alayna. And this is an early morning morbid.
¶¶ you So our voices might sound a little lower.
Mine might sound a little extra Kardashian for you today.
Those of you that like to call me a Kardashian.
Kardashian ass. That's me. That's you. You're the trash Kardashian.
Who would I be in this podcast? I think I'm probably the Chloe of the podcast.
The Chloe. I'm the Chloe of the family because all of you are tiny little bitches and I'm just towering over with my thickness.
But you're beautiful. You're beautiful. Thanks.
You're beautiful. And all of you are beautiful.
You're gorgeous little weirdos. You really are.
So I think that this is, so we had told you last week that we're going to do one of our episodes each week for the month of October 1st. or spookies. going to be is going to be haunted and spooky uh this episode is not haunted but it sure is spooky Most of our episodes are pretty spooky.
And this one isn't haunted, but it's definitely going to haunt you afterwards.
You're welcome. But speaking of haunted and spooky and October and wonderful things.
I just wanted to quickly shout out a really good episode of a really good podcast that you should all listen to that's going to get you in the mood, because I know a lot people like to get in the mood for October.
You gotta. Allison from the Strange and Unusual podcast, which is a great podcast if no one's listened to it. um she just is she just started doing she does these like series of really cool like history deep dives into like you know like witch trials and like just like really spooky things She just did an episode where she did a retelling of Sleepy Hollow online.
Oh, shit. I haven't listened to that yet.
I'm so excited. It's so good. And it's called Sleepy Hollow, A Region of Shadows.
It's episode 24. I think it's our newest one.
And she goes into tons of stuff about fear and how Sleepy Hollow clearly is all about fear. and like hysteria and legend and she goes into all of that she talks about history and ghosts and spooky season.
It's going to get you like so in the mood.
She also has one of those voices where you're like, Like you can kind of like zone out while you're still listening, if that makes sense.
Her voice is very soothing. It is. It takes you where you want to go.
I always listen to her when I'm cooking dinner, and it just puts me in a very zen state.
It really does. And then Annie gets home and is like, What is this?
This is so scary. And I'm like, I know I love it.
And it's a really well-produced show, too.
She has like spooky music in the background and she does little sound effects that will spook you out.
And she's part of our family. She is, and she's part of the Morbid family.
So we just wanted to shout her out because... we love to tell you guys about awesome other creators.
So go listen to it because it's great. I think besides that, what do we have to... We don't have anything to announce today.
If you wait for next week's episode... We'll have something.
I think it will be Wednesday's episode. We have some good news.
We were going to have some really good news.
So hang tight for that. And I think that's going to be a haunted episode, I'm pretty sure.
I'm getting excited for that. I'm getting excited for that.
One thing I just wanted to mention from a couple of episodes ago.
Oh, my God. We made a joke because in the case... we were talking about like these kids like pretty young teenage kids that were like sniffing glue and we got in a discussion about how you would go about sniffing glue and we made a joke about a j-o-k-e about elmer's glue like whoa are all these kindergartners just getting high If you really think that I think kindergartners are getting fucked up in craft class. girl I just wanted to say like we would we normally wouldn't comment on this because we've we've honestly taken on a like no reaction to bullshit policy.
But this one, I was like, really? This one has honestly invaded our review now so I feel like it's like people are reviewing on iTunes and literally giving us one stars and being like how dare you not know what's sniffing glue is.
Which I was like, what? Sorry that I don't know that.
But what we just wanted to clear up was That was a joke.
We were doing a bit. A little bit between us.
We were doing a bit. We know what sniffing glue is.
We understand it gets you high. I think we were like... pondering exactly how that works.
Yeah, we were pondering the mechanism by which you get high from the glue.
But my kids use Elmer's glue. I know that you don't get high from it.
We know that. So I just wanted to put that out there.
For all the people that were really nice about it, were like, let me explain it to you.
We appreciate that. Because we asked for that.
But what we did not ask for is like the nastiness.
I was like, Jesus, I had no idea a whole community of people that sniff glue. or have sniffed glue, we're going to get so offended by us pondering.
So offended. It just really shocked me.
The glue community fucking... The glitz... morbid the glue community strikes back right so i just wanted to say it was a joke I promise.
Don't worry. We understand. We're not completely ignorant to everything around us.
I really promise you that. Yeah definitely not.
But I just thought that was really funny.
And as soon as I saw it in the reviews, I was like, I got to say something.
I just want people to know we're not that dumb.
I think that's really all we had to touch on before.
Yeah, I think we should get into it. But we're going to get right into it.
Initially, I was doing another case like all the way up until the last minute for this one.
Yeah. Up until like last night. Literally.
And I'm still going to do that case. I might do it next week.
But like we've said before, you have to be like...
Thank you. You have to be in the mood to tell a certain case and to research a certain case.
And then all of a sudden, this other case just... floated around my, my, my little sphere of knowledge outside your door.
I was like ooh and I just plucked it out of the universe and I was like that's scary as fuck and then when I started researching it I was like whoa woke So what we're going to talk about today is the Chicago Ripper Crew.
A crew of rippers. This is a crew, and this is what astounded me the most, because there's four men involved in Holy shit.
And they all work together? Yeah. Wow. So this was kind of like a cult. situation like a satanic cult is what they were calling it and but they kind of just made up their own shit like they called it a satanic cult but It was just a cult of fucked up serial killers, really, is what it was.
That's so weird that they all found each other.
That's what's astounding to me. Like, you'll see two... It's even weird when two...
Yeah, like, I think of, like, Henry Lee Lucas and... Yeah, and Otis Toole and, like, you know, the... the toolbox murders which we'll cover soon eventually But you're always like how to two people and like the hillside stranglers.
How do you find two people? I know that have that depraved of a sensibility that they're going to.
Right. And how do you even like bring that up with another person?
That's what's crazy. I think that's my main thing is I'm like, how did you all find this out that you're both equally fucked up?
And four people to be that fucked up. Yeah.
And when you look into it, it it seems like the way it is brought into you know each other's attention is like one of them just like goes out on a limb.
And it's like, hey, you want to go kill this girl with me?
And the other one's like, holy... That's so great that you said that, because I've been thinking that the whole time.
Well, it's like the Ian Brady thing, how he went to...
But like just the pub and was like telling this guy like, oh, I want to kill someone.
You want to join this shit? And they were like, no.
Yeah. Like, I guess you just got to go out on a limb and see.
Be bold. Be bold, I suppose. But yeah, so this is one of the situations it really astounded me.
And not only that it's for people that kill women, which is what we'll see.
They kill a lot of women. But it's for men who kill women in a... in a really brutal way.
Great. It's really weird that four of them came together.
It's like eight o'clock in the morning right now.
Let's get it. Let's do this. So before I begin I just want to give a real big warning.
This is a very brutal one. There is sexual assault, there is rape, there is mutilation.
This is a very big... blech. Just so you know.
So if you're not thinking that you feel like you want to deal with it right now, you know, you can go away and come back and like Come again, please.
Come again when you feel like you can deal with it.
Because we know the world sucks right now.
Sometimes you don't want to listen to that.
But we hope you do. because it feels it's cathartic.
So this takes place in 1981 till roughly 1982.
Okay. So quick. Yeah. It was like, woo, boom.
But they really did. They did it. So we'll begin on May 23rd, 1981.
This is when 26 year old Linda Sutton, who was a mother of two, and worked as a sex worker.
She had been living with her mother at the time that she went missing.
She had gone missing 10 days prior before her body was found.
And it was found on May 23rd. Um, the way that it was found was people at this motel called the Rip Van Winkle Motel Oh, that's weird that it's The Rip.
Yeah, The Rip Van Winkle Motel in Villa Park, Illinois.
They started and it's a really creepy looking hotel.
I think it's renamed the Briar Rabbit Hotel. because they didn't want to be associated with rippers.
Probably not. Rip Van Winkle is like an old tale. of like sleepy it's like a tale about sleep oh so it technically doesn't have anything to do with like ripping yeah it's just the name of the person but yeah You can put it together for sure.
Right. But people at the motel were smelling a foul odor.
No. And they weren't able to find anything in the motel.
So they were like, what is going on here?
And people were thinking, you know, it's in a kind of a rural area.
There's like big fields around it. So they were like, maybe it's a dead deer.
Yeah. That's just like behind the place.
So they ended up checking it out and they found a woman's body. behind the motel face down in a field her hands were handcuffed behind her back She was mutilated.
Like, very mutilated. There were cuts all over her left and right breasts and her left breasts had been severed oh my goodness completely like down to the chest wall There was several cut marks all over her.
She had been, I mean her sweater was torn in several places She had no pants on.
Her underwear was down around her knees, like pulled down intentionally.
$17 was tucked into her sock. And she had been repeatedly raped, it was obvious, repeatedly sexually assaulted.
They had to use dental records to identify her.
Oh my goodness. Yes. and on June 1st, 1981, pathologist Peter Seichman was the one on scene, and he said that She had been dead for three days when they found her.
They had held her alive and tortured her for upwards of a week. before that.
That's what I was going to say. Because she went missing 10 days earlier.
Right. Yeah. A week. Oh my god. Yeah. A week.
So Dr. David Barrett, the director of pathology at Central DuPage Hospital, he did the autopsy.
He said, quote, and this is from the court documents, it said, quote, and several ribs were in disarray.
Dr. Barrett found nicks or cuts on a number of the victim's ribs which could have been caused by a sharp blade or object.
Dr. Barrett concluded that the victim had died as a result of stab wounds and blood loss associated with the stab wounds.
Holy cow. So cause of death was multiple stab wounds.
Catherine Ramsland, who she's the one that we talked about with BTK a lot.
Yeah. She's amazing. Right. Like, I love her.
She wrote the book, right? Yeah, and she communicated with him.
She's just, she's so brilliant. Like, I love her.
She's a mommy. She's a brain. She mentioned in a documentary I watched about this that...
Removing the breast is like a very significant thing here.
Yeah, it is. Like, this is not just something that somebody would do as like, oh, I'm going to try this out.
Whoop. Like, you know, it's not. Is that like a mommy issue?
It could be a mommy issue, or she said it's more of like a paraphilia, which is like...
She said it could be that that's something that like, it's like she described it as like a sexual deviance where somebody gets aroused. by like very strange objects and things, like things that are not normal to be aroused by, like removing a breast from a body.
Right. She also said it could be symbolic or ritualistic because... um this part of the human body some people look at as being inherently female even though it's just like a lump of fat.
And so they look at it as like removing the female part of you.
Like one of the things that makes you a female, you know?
Yeah, that makes sense. And somebody, you know, dumb like this would think that.
And it also could be a trophy or a memento because we've seen... If they keep the boob.
Some of them will keep that kind of shit.
And if you look back at Jack the Ripper, which we haven't covered yet, but we definitely will.
I know, it blows my mind that we haven't covered that yet, but I'm like, well... It's such a big one.
It is. That's a... Multi-party. Multi-party, for sure.
So when you look back at Jack the Ripper, his last victim, Mary Kelly.
Mm-hmm. he removed the breasts. Uh-huh, yeah.
And he placed them, like, on her nightstand.
So... that's something like it's just like that's a connection for sure means something It definitely does.
So kind of, unfortunately, nothing really, you know...
What we see with this is this crew went after, you know, people that were going to be considered less dead a lot of the times.
Not always. Sometimes they, I don't think there was really a method to their madness.
I think that they probably went more towards you know, sex workers, drug addicts, and people that they felt were not going to be missed.
They were wrong. Right. Good. Thankfully.
But they definitely went for sex workers a lot and i think that was just for ease of getting them into the vehicle right unfortunately But with people like Linda Sutton, the case was just going cold because there was not a lot of places they could look.
She had family, but they didn't know a lot about her whereabouts or what she was going to be doing.
They probably didn't know, like, her route that she took or anything like that.
Yeah, the extent of everything. So, unfortunately, the case went cold.
Then one year later, on May 15th, 1982, a 21-year-old woman named Lorraine Laurie Borowski, she went missing.
And she went missing in a crazy way because it was broad daylight.
Oh, shit. Now, she had blue eyes, brown hair.
She was an office manager at a real estate office.
She was abducted in the middle of the day in the parking lot.
Well, not in the middle of the day, in the middle of the morning. in the parking lot in front of the real estate office that she worked at.
Holy shit. So she's literally just like outside of her job.
Oh, yeah. She showed up to her office and it was it was in like a plaza, too.
I'm picturing the plaza that I used to work in and just walking into work.
That's literally what it was. It's like a plaza.
You're surrounded by other places, other...
How many of you right now are sitting in your car in the plaza at work?
Exactly. And that's exactly what she was doing.
She showed up in the morning, early morning. uh before 8 30 and she was going to be opening the place because she was the manager right um the office manager and she showed up and She was never seen again.
Holy shit. So what happened was her boss, Don Stibb, came to work around 845.
And he saw that she wasn't there and that the door was unlocked or locked.
Yeah. He was like, so she hasn't shown up?
Right. Yeah. And she was very, she came to work every day and she was on time.
So they were like, What's going on? Then he looked over at the parking lot.
And he saw a bunch of makeup scattered on the ground.
Both of her shoes, both of her high heels. and the keys.
And he was like, oh, what the hell? Can you imagine stumbling across that and being like, first being like oh that's so strange that like the door is locked like that's not like her and then you turn around and you're like Oh, I know exactly what happened.
Yeah. And they would have they must have literally ambushed her. as she was just getting out of her car to unlock the door.
How do you? And again, in the morning. Right.
That's scarier somehow. So scary. Yeah. Because you're never safe at that point.
When you look at it that way, you're like, we're literally never safe.
No. So it was reported to the Elmhurst Police Department when her co-workers found all this and were like, holy shit.
Right. So her mother Lorraine said they went looking for her immediately.
They went to her apartment, they searched everywhere.
They did missing persons flyers, they asked around everywhere, there were huge searches.
Her mother, I watched this documentary. Her mother was so sad watching her mother.
She said she was like, I just like stopped sleeping.
Of course. Which I was like, of course you did.
I know we talk about that so much with moms of victims. sleep again you just never i can never close my eyes right just a lot of people say that they like never get into bed again they just fall asleep wherever wherever their body is shut Yeah, because you can't just calm down.
And she also said, and this is the part that really, because she like, Her voice broke when she said this.
She said she carried around a white sheet with her.
So she said if I found her, I could cover her.
Oh my God. Doesn't that just like... Wow.
Yeah. To have to make that decision. To even think about that as a mom.
Yeah. Just to be like, if I find her, I need to cover her up.
Like, that's the ultimate caregiver. It really is.
And like her voice broke when she said it.
And I was like, that's her baby. And her name is Lorraine.
Her daughter was named after her. It's just.
It just really broke my heart. So Detective John Milner... worked on this case and he's a detective he's also a certified investigative hypnotist Oh shit, that's cool.
Yeah, and they use it to try to get things out of people's subconscious.
Yeah. It's obviously like controversial, like people...
Some people believe this stuff, some people don't.
He did hypnotize people that were working around the area.
Because a lot of them were like, I might have seen something and I don't know what's significant or what isn't.
Because you just don't think about it. You're not looking for those kind of things.
At 8 o'clock in the morning, your coffee hasn't hit yet.
You're showing up to work in the morning.
You're not thinking you're going to see someone abducted.
No. So a shop owner in the plaza... In the same plaza.
I think they worked, like, right next to the real estate office.
His name was Frederick Moberly. And... I was like, Moberly?
Frederick Moberly. said he did, under hypnosis, he said, I did see a red like orangey van. that was very strange in the area during that time and i think it has something to do with it i fucking hate vans i hate if you drive a van Get rid of it.
Every time I see a van and it's because I read the toolbox murders like way too early in my life.
Yeah. And they had that van murder Mac.
Yeah. So fucking stupid. And they had like, oh, it just reminds me of that.
And it freaks. me the fuck out. I remember being little and like my mom being super freaked out by white bands.
Because you're just taught that from an early age.
You really are. And there was always cases where it was a white van that the suspect was driving. of course and then it gets like put into other cases where it's like i think he was driving a white van it's just because everybody's scared of them it's always a fucking white van So this van lead, they had it, but there was really not a ton to go on.
It wasn't panning out. They weren't really able to do a lot.
But they were working hard on this case.
So two weeks later, May 29th, 1982, a 30-year-old woman named Shu Mack went missing.
And she had been driving with her brother.
And this was around like 1 a.m., I think.
They were driving home from somewhere. They got into, from what I've read in a couple of places, they got into like a little argument in the car, her and her brother, and her brother told her to get out of the car and walk.
Oh, geez. And so she got out of the car.
That was the last time she was seen. Her poor brother to live with that.
I can't imagine having that guilt. So her body was found four months later in a shallow grave in the woods.
And a pathologist employed by the Cook County Medical Examiner's Office performed the autopsy.
His name was Dr. Yupil Choi. He said, quote, and this is from court documents, he said, quote, found there were multiple fractures of the victim's skull, which he attributed to trauma from a blunt instrument.
Dr. Choi also found two superficial fractures of the sixth and seventh ribs. on the left side in the high stomach area and a complete transection of the right forearm bone. the cause of death was blunt trauma to the head and fracture of the ribs Two weeks later, June 13th, 1982, a sex worker identified Only in Quark documents is HC.
I could not find her name. Probably because she's a survivor of this.
Oh, shit. She was picked up in a red orangey van by two men.
According to the court documents it says quote, after entering the van, the defendant, who I will tell you who the defendant is later, You will.
I will. Told her to remove her clothing. handcuffed her wrists and ankles, and forced her to commit a deviant sexual act by forcing his penis into her mouth.
Oh, gosh. He told her if she moved, he would cut her with a knife he had in his hand.
Defendant ordered HC to tightly wrap pantyhose around her breasts.
What?! ! He then cut the hole larger and committed a second act of deviant sexual assault by basically having sex with the hole in her chest.
What? Yes. That is something that we find out later. is a hallmark of these men. is they will remove the breast, which we find out later they remove it by using usually a length of piano wire. to slice it off what and then they will have sex with the wounds they make in the woman's chest oh my goodness.
What the fuck? Yeah. How did I said it? before and i'll say that how did four people exactly like this find each other Well, it seems, and we'll find out later, that this is kind of a culty situation where these... other men followed this one man and i think they all not a mission of initiation but i mean holy What the actual fuck?
I don't know what to even say right now.
And this woman lived through this. My God, I hope she was able to get some kind of reconstructive surgery.
I hope she was able to get a lot of help after this.
Seriously. Because then the defendant told her to get out of the van, threw her clothes out of the van and drove away.
Just tossed her out of the van. Like, that's not sexual assault.
That's a whole different... Oh, it's... It's honestly beyond words.
I don't even know what you categorize that as.
I wouldn't even know how you would categorize that.
It's a very deviant... sexual assault. That's all you can think of.
Not even like what? Well, and she had said one man in particular, which we will learn his name later.
He was the ringleader. was very aroused by watching her cut her own breast.
And we find out later that is a thing that he is into.
He likes to watch the mutilation of a breast.
That's so bizarre. And he then duct taped her wounds closed before throwing her out of the van.
Oh, and then you think of how much that would hurt afterwards.
Yep. And obviously she went to the police and told them everything she could.
Right. The town of Agde in France is famous for sun, sand, sea and sex.
But lately, life on the coast has taken a strange turn. the town's mayor, a respected pillar of the community, has been arrested for corruption.
His wife claims he's been bewitched by a beautiful clairvoyant.
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As the mayor is unable to carry out his duties, I would like to address you all.
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Moving on to August 28th, 1982, 18 year old Sandra Delaware. was found.
She was also working as a sex worker and was abducted.
Her body was found next to the Chicago River.
She had her hands tied behind her back. She had been tortured just like the others, raped, and they found... and this is really horrific, I warned you ahead of time guys, they found a broken wine bottle inserted inside of her.
Her brow was wrapped tightly around her throat and like every other victim, her left breast was sliced off. oh my god is it always the left one it's always the left one that's weird weirdly enough I don't know if it's the one because it's like more over your heart.
That's what I was going to ask. Because I guess it's... your heart's not perfectly centered so yeah so so September 8, 1982, 30-year-old Rose Beck Davis was kidnapped and murdered.
She was a marketing executive. So it's like we see totally different kinds, you know, like sex workers, marketing executives and office manager.
18-year-olds. White women, black women, there's a wide range. because many of these women were black.
Many of these women were white. There was no... victim profile really except which is woman that's all it was makes you think like How fucking crazy are you?
Because when there's no... victim profile, I feel like that is the most terrifying.
Yeah, it's like when there's no motive, it's scarier.
It's like Billy Lee. Loomis says it's scarier when there's no motive.
It is. And Catherine... ramsland in the documentary i saw said she was like there was literally no one no woman was safe If you were out, you could be plucked.
And you weren't safe in the middle of the morning, in broad daylight, around tons of people.
Yeah, that's so fucked up. I can't imagine.
And they said that Chicago was in a state of fucking like.
Just terror, pure terror at this point because you had no idea.
Right. So Rose Beck Davis, she was a marketing executive.
She was found in an alley. She had been tortured and raped. just like the other ones.
There was deep wounds and slashes to both of her breasts.
And I read in some things that her left breast was removed.
Other things, I just read that... they were both mutilated.
So either way, something they definitely focused on the chest.
Even worse, her face had been hacked with a hatchet.
Holy shit. Yes. And what they found out later was that many of these injuries and tortures were inflicted Anti-mortem.
They were inflicted before they died. Oh, wow.
Yeah, because they're just... straight up torturing them it's not like they killed them and then removed the breast to keep it was while they did it while they were alive for ultimate torture which is just beyond oh my god yeah so one month later October 6th, 1982, an 18 year old named Beverly Washington was found in an alley. but she was found alive.
What? She had been working as a sex worker.
That's how they picked her up. The only reason I'm mentioning the sex worker work is because this is how they were picked up.
Yeah. She had the same wounds, her left breast had been sliced off, her right breast had been covered with stab and slice wounds.
She was alive, like I said, but she had definitely been left for dead.
They thought she was dead. They thought she was.
She couldn't speak. She was in such critical condition.
Wow. They literally had her on like a ventilator at point like she was in the hospital completely incapacitated, but she made it.
She did make it. And not only that, this badass. was able to tell police details, not by speaking because she couldn't speak, She used signals and wrote down things for them.
Holy shit. Yes, girl. While in the hospital, like... hooked up to a million things can't speak she's like i'm going to get she's like i'm gonna get this fucker And this is Beverly.
This is Beverly Washington. She is a young, how old was she?
18 year old black woman. and she fucking killed it.
Bev. Yeah, she was... She was vital in taking them down.
Vital. That makes me so happy. It is. I'm so glad somebody was able to just be like, fuck off.
That's always the best. It's like the, not the toolbox, the toy box killer.
Yes. When she was alive and got out. Yes.
It's like, fuck you. Because you always want that survivor to be able to take him down.
Absolutely. I hate that they went through it, but I'm glad they were able to be the ones to take her down.
Because they're survivors. So she said that she was kidnapped in a red van.
Just like this, so we're already seeing everything's connected here.
Hand cuffed her hands behind her back, forced a ton of pills down her throat at gunpoint.
Oh, that's weird. Which we find out later some of the people, because they A couple of these guys admit to it later, and they do say, like, we would...
Drugs pills down their throat, but they never really told what they would throw down their throat.
So you don't know what the purpose is? No.
I'm assuming just to keep them docile. Like some kind of sedative.
Maybe like docile and like, yeah, some kind of sedative to just make it easier.
But not strong enough to like make them pass out.
Exactly. She was then taken to some room in a house, she said, tied to a bed.
Oh my God. Four men raped her several times and tortured her.
Oh, my God. she said one of the men then took a length of piano wire tightened it around her left breast and kept until she passed out from pain.
Oh my God. He said she passed out from pain and they must have thought they killed her because when she woke up, she was in the hospital.
That's the next thing she remembers. Did they remove her breast?
They did. They removed it. She said the van was red.
It was older. And she mentioned that between the front and back of the van, there was a wooden partition that was built.
And she said that the front mirror had two long blue and white feathers hanging from it.
Like she was able to say all these details.
That's awesome. So an APB goes out and all points bulletin for the van.
Now they're like, we have all these details.
It's not just a red van. You fucking got you. look for these feathers, look for a partition.
These are like really big details. That's great.
So five days after this, October 10, 1982, Lorraine was found, 21-year-old Lorraine, who was the one that was kidnapped outside of her real estate office.
Opening work. they hadn't found her at this point right she was found finally five days after beverly was her mom able to cover um she was found in caledon or uh clarendon hill cemetery And that place had already been searched several times.
Oh, wow. And her mother said I was 10 feet away from her body and I didn't know it.
Is there any chance that they were keeping her and then they put her there?
What they think, she was, it was in an unused part of the cemetery.
So they kind of did hide her. okay but I guess they just didn't look that place but she was found with her left breast removed uh-huh Her shirt was raised and her brow was lowered intentionally.
Physical Anthropology at Northern Illinois University, Frank Orlovsky conducted the autopsy.
He said he thought her chest had been repeatedly stabbed with an ice pick.
Yes. Her nose was broken and there was also stab wounds to her back that also looked like they were inflicted with a ice pick. wow so they use several different weapons to your back yeah So 10 days after this, Chicago detectives are out and they spot a Dodge van that's red and They peek in there, they see it has a wooden partition and there's the feathers hanging from the mirror.
I mean, I'm glad that they're this stupid.
First of all, you're going to drive a red vehicle?
Yeah, exactly. That's dumb. van then you're gonna go ahead and put feathers in there it's like why don't you make it more obvious I'm glad that they did but like I guess they tried to tint the windows a little, but you could see inside.
That's stupid. Yeah. So officers pull them over, obviously, and the driver is 21-year-old Edward Spreitzer.
21 year old, 21 years old. When they pull him over, he's like super twinkly. witchy and he's like and so he says immediately he's like this van isn't mine by the way.
Okay. And the cops are like, okay, why are you driving it? like that's that doesn't help your case that this is not yours illegal like that's theft And he was like, oh, no, no, no, it's my boss's van, and I'm driving it for him.
And they're like, okay, well, who is your boss?
And his boss is Robin Gett. So... Robin get apparently he's a little older, um, than this, like probably by like like 10 years or so so he's like 30 yeah he's in his 30s and so So he was a carpenter and electrician and like a contractor at times, like just kind of like an all-around handyman.
And before I get into Robin, I want to quickly get into how Robin and Edward met, like how they began. how he came to be driving his van right so edward was living at the time in the rip van winkle motel And now called the Briar Rabbit Motel.
Yes. And he was working at a donut shop part time.
And he said he was working here that he met Robin.
Sure. Because he said... Robin would come into the shop often late, like on his way home from work and get a donut or something.
And one night... Edward's car wouldn't start and Robin happened to be the one in the shop late at night.
And he agreed to give him a ride home to Chicago.
So it's going to get rough. from here i mean it's it's pretty rough it's pretty rough so i just want to keep warning it's it's going to continue we're not going to get a lot of downtime for the this one good glad to hear it so so yeah so they so that's how they met initially and then he eventually started working for him doing little jobs.
That's how he became to driving that van.
Yeah. He also considered working for Robin to be doing this with robin this stuff with the women yeah like we work together So they bring in, so immediately they go to Robin's house.
He leads them to Robin's house because he's like, Now he's trying to save his own ass.
So they go to Robin's house. They find out that Robin matches the description that Beverly Washington gave them.
Perfectly. Wow. And I mean right now all they have is Sure, they have the van that matches perfectly.
They have him that matches perfectly. But they need some evidence.
They need her to identify him. Right. So and he's denying it.
He said he has a wife and three children.
Oh, my God. He says I was home with my wife that night.
No, you weren't. And when they look over his van some more, they were like, okay, we need a little bit more to like go by here.
Not only was everything matching perfectly, but then they noticed that the inside handles... were intentionally modified to make sure you couldn't open them from the inside.
What? So you couldn't get out once you were in.
Of course. And they were modified to do that.
That's fucking terrible. That's like bone collector shit.
If anyone's seen the bone collector, first of all, it's a great movie.
My biggest fear when I get into like a rideshare is like, I look in, I look at the lock and Because in that movie, the guy is like a cab driver and he has shaved down the locks to be razors so you can't... unlock it and if you do you slice your finger oh my god and it always makes me think of that so this immediately made me think of that So they speak to him, they go over everything, but he's got to be released.
Right. They don't have anything to hold him on.
There's nothing. So they start to dig deeper and they see that he's often been seen at the Rip Van Winkle Motel along with Edward.
So, and again, this is where Linda Sutton was found.
I was going to say. So they talked to the manager of the Rip Van Winkle Hotel and they're like...
You know, can you tell me anything? And he says, yeah, they often came here.
It was him, Robin, with three other men.
And he said they were often here. They would get rooms that were connected to each other and then they would just like have crazy parties.
Okay. So he said the one who mentioned that he was actually the one that mentioned that he thought they were in some kind of like satanic cult okay he was like they they give me that vibe and he's like and they've What is that vibe exactly?
Which, that's exactly what I thought. I was like...
How does one give a satanic cult vibe? Unless you're coming in there just being like...
Like holding the Satanic Bible. Right. Like throwing blood at someone. someone i'm not really sure what how you would immediately be like i think they're in a well or is this just like a west memphis three deal and he walked in wearing a fucking metallica Because it is the early 80s and it's like, what's going on here?
So, but it did, it freaked him out. He said they freaked him out.
So he had good instincts. I was going to say, you got to trust your gut.
If someone freaks you out. Go the other way.
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This guy was right. He had the right vibe about him.
And he had the right vibe with the satanic cult shit.
Like, he was right. So this victim, Beverly Washington, is still in critical condition.
But again, they need that ID. Right. They cannot bring her in to do a lineup because she literally can't leave the hospital.
So they bring the line up to her. Into her hospital room?
So at her bedside, she picks him out immediately.
What the fuck? And they said she was panicked, like, like, started freaking out when she saw her.
Like, saw him. She was literally like that.
And, like... in a lineup of other men she like didn't even take a second and was like that's him oh my god and then they said like she was literally like in a state like a panic attack right like so because i probably brought stuff back oh i can't imagine how terrified you would Like that man abducted you, raped you, tortured you, held you.
And then sliced off your fucking left breast.
Right. You were on a ventilator because of this man.
He's standing in front of you right now.
18 years old, like crazy. So he's immediately.
So he was like there, there. It wasn't like a photo lineup?
Yeah, that's what, yeah. They did a, I guess they did a photo ID and they also did a lineup.
In person, wow. Yeah. And he was immediately arrested on aggravated battery and deviant sexual assault because, again, she wasn't murdered.
So that's all they could get him on right now.
I hate that. I have such a big issue. with that because he tried it's like can we modify that she was left for dead right They thought they killed her.
Like, attempted murder? Okay, you thought it was going to end in murder, so let's just... fucking sentence you as such that's the thing it's like because they i feel like they get rewarded for not for someone's for someone being strong enough to survive their bullshit.
And then that person has to live the rest of their life worrying that that person has the potential to get out.
Exactly. That makes no sense. So he was arrested for that, but he postponed.
Why was there even bond on that also? I'm saying.
Jesus, what the fuck? fuck is the legal system now in between all this another sex worker came forward and said that she knew um She knew Get, and she said, he attacked me as well.
Oh, damn. She was like, this is not a first thing.
Like, he would have killed me as well. There's a warrant issued for his arrest immediately again, his rearrest.
It's like, maybe let's not post bail this time.
Exactly. He was rearrested on November 5th.
And now they know that there are like because of the motel manager, they know there's three other men that they want to talk to.
Right. And they already had to talk to Edward.
So they need two more. So they return to the little bitch driving the van, Edward.
And they're like... we need to talk to you.
Who are your friends? So they interview him for hours and hours on November 7th.
Yeah. he breaks finally in which you look at his face and you're like oh yeah you can break him Like, he's a little turd.
That must be so fun as a cop. As a detective.
Seeing someone break like that must just be like, ha!
Like, win! Now, he admits that he's basically spilling the beans.
And he says the whole thing was ritualistic.
He said it was all because they were in this, like, cult.
They worshipped... They didn't even say they worshipped Satan.
Like, they were just like, we... Like, they basically used the Satanic Bible, but they were just like, Basically, I don't think they really knew what they were actually worshipping.
I think it was just probably a convenient excuse.
And I think they were worshipping Geth. Basically, they were worshiping him because they believed he had power.
Okay. And that like they were doing this for some reason.
Cute. And I don't mean that like they believed he had power like they are mentally ill and like they were like no they are very sane like they determined none of them were mentally right and i think they were just like crazy, as in like psychotic.
Yes, yes. And So, what he said was they would abduct, stab, and then…
That was their thing. They would abduct.
They would stab them several times. And then Get would remove their breasts, usually with a length of piano wire.
Oh, my God. and would often have sex with the wound.
And he said after meeting Get at work at the donut shop when they initially met, He would give him a ride home a lot.
And he said one night they were in the van and they decided to, and this is from court documents, quote pick up some whores jesus um and that's a direct quote that's horrible He said Robin had told him he would signal him when they were going to abduct the woman that they picked up.
And he promised, he said, you won't get in trouble though.
I'm not going to get you in trouble. but just help me out with this.
Dude, you're driving the getaway car. You're such an idiot.
So Edward's like... Okay. Cool. So he was like, I'll get the woman into the front seat.
I'll pick her up like any normal like just picking up a sex worker.
Right. And then I'm going to knock on the partition and you're going to help me like drag her.
Can you imagine being the sex worker in that car and you hear a knock from the back of the van?
Yeah, when you hear a knock, you know some shit's about to go down.
Yeah. So and he also told him, quote, we're going to, quote, take care of a whore tonight.
My God. So this is, you can see how they think about women.
Good, good, good. And sex workers in particular.
So the woman that they picked up was Linda Sutton, that first woman.
Oh, Linda. He later admitted that another man named Andrew Kokoralis was also present. when Sutton was picked up.
And this is when they start being like, oh.
Oh, cool. Who else was there? Anybody else you want to tell us about?
And the court documents say this is the description of what happened.
When Sutton began to scream, Cocoralis punched her, knocking her into the rear of the van.
As she continued to scream, Kokoralis and the defendant punched her several times in the face until she shut up.
They then drove to the Brer Rabbit Hotel and took her to the defendant's room.
After she was gagged and handcuffed to the bedpost, Gett, Cocorallis, and the defendant each sexually assaulted her.
At several points, Coker Alice stuck, and this is bad, a Coke bottle into her.
Later, they took her from the motel and brought Linda into the woods.
According to the court documents, after Gett and Sutton had been in the woods for five minutes, the defendant heard Sutton moaning and saying, what are you doing to me?
Why are you doing this? Hearing Gett whistle, the defendant went over to the bushes where he saw that Gett had severed one of Sutton's breasts. and was having sex with the area where the breast had been severed.
Sutton's breast was lying next to her on the grass.
Then they left her and they just left. Just left her for dead.
So she essentially bled out. Yeah. She was... Yeah.
I mean... Because I think that was her cause of death was multiple stab wounds.
So her cause of death was bleeding out from multiple stab wounds.
Now, who is this Andrew Kokoralis that we're talking about?
Right. So he apparently worked with them sometimes and also acted as Are You Ready?
A live-in babysitter forgets children. There's going to be so much dead air in this episode when you tell me these things because I'm just like, what?
All you're going to hear is a hinge as like her jaw just falls open.
I should just add that sound effect in there.
Like honestly, like what? Yeah. Because you know that this, like, obviously you're a horrible person.
Was he... A good dad question mark? I have no idea.
What? I can't imagine. I really can't imagine.
That's weird. So Detective Warren Wilcox is the one to interview him and When Andrew is shown a photo of Lori, Lori, the first woman, the 21-year-old that was – or no, the second woman that was – abducted outside of the real estate office, he immediately says, that's the girl that Eddie Spretzer and I killed in the cemetery. oh my god.
So he was just like, yeah, what's up? Okay.
Now a According to court documents, he said, quote, He and Spretzer were driving in Goethe's van on Route 83 in Elmhurst.
They entered a parking lot. And they saw Lori Borowski and forced her into the van.
They just saw her and were like, yep, grab her.
Just forced her into her van. What? The defendant said that they then drove to the cemetery where both he and Sprezer beat and stabbed the victim.
In the morning. When Lori was dead, they dragged her body into some weeds.
Like evil. Absolute evil. So beyond evil.
He then implicated himself in upwards of 18 murders.
Eighteen. And he admits to everything. He confirms Edwards' record of events.
He says they would all have sex with the victim's stab wounds.
He said that was everything. Everybody who did that.
He added to the details of Linda Sutton's torture and murder as well.
Oh, no. He said after raping her, Gett removed a homemade hatchet from the back of his pants and struck the woman three or four times in the chest.
My God. Gett returned to the van a short time later and the defendant saw blood on Gett's hands and on the hatchet.
Gett and the defendant left in the van and Spreitzer drove away in his own car.
It's like, how do you just drive after that?
I don't. You just go home. I don't want to understand, but what?
In Get, it's like, so you went home to your wife and children.
Right. And just were like, hello, family.
Like, what's for dinner? Like, it's truly unbelievable.
That's unreal. So now they're trying to get there.
Like, we have a fourth guy here. Who's the fourth guy?
So there's mention that Thomas, Andrew's brother... is the fourth guy oh so they bring him in and interview him and they want to get more information And then, oops, he implicates himself too.
Of course. So he confirms the whole thing.
Said Robin get was obsessed with removing the breasts and convinced him he had powers.
He admits that he and his brother Edward are that he and his brother and Edward would rape, torture, and murder women.
He said particularly they did They all did that to Lori.
He's like, I did that. And then dumped her dead body in the graveyard.
So he admits it. They were immediately deemed the Chicago Ripper crew for obvious reasons.
Right. I think a lot of this really did harken back to Jack the Ripper just because of the mutilation that occurred.
And the sex worker thing, I think it really harkens back to it.
They all said they can't remember really how many victims they had.
Oh, they just fucking lost count? They literally lost count.
Like, they're all like, oh, I have no idea.
Wow. He said they were part of a satanic cult and that they would abduct the girls off the street.
They would bring them back to Getz's house while his wife was at work.
Are you kidding where are the kids it would either they would either go to the motel or they would go while she was at work i'm assuming they were in school God.
He had made his creepy ass little attic, which I'm going to have to find the picture for you guys, in his home into like a cult room. with an altar and a bed to sacrifice victims on and his wife had no idea what was apparently What we find out later is that his wife and family believe he's totally innocent.
So I wonder... i i wonder what's going on there yeah that pisses me off yeah i'm not into that no So he said each instance would result in the three men torturing and raping the woman while they were tied to the bed, and this would happen while get the fourth guy would be walking around the bed reading a weird satanic passage from the satanic bible and like chanting it and shit it's like why do you need to like ruin so while you're doing this like literally they're like gang raping this woman and he's walking around chanting and shit can you imagine the horror the terror like that's true horror The crescendo of the whole ritual was the taking the piano wire and slicing off the breasts.
Did he ever say what the point of that was?
No, they didn't really like get into it.
There's a lot of significance in like... mythology and, like, weird legends and shit like that when you go back, but it's, like, I think he was just taking pieces from things, but...
We do find out later, he does say at one point that he, his like family, like the men in his family, Robin Gett.
Yeah. had a obsession with breasts and like big breasted women.
Okay. And they all had like a weird fetish with like they fetishized breasts.
It wasn't like, oh, I'm a boob man. It was like.
It's a weird family deal. Weird fetish. And he said he came from like a long line of it.
So I think it was taught to him that they were objects for his pleasure.
That's real weird. Which is very weird. He said the same thing about, you know, the terrible things they would do.
And he said after they would slice it off and after they would have sex with the wounds that the woman received, they would all masturbate into the breast and then they would cut it into pieces and eat it.
No. Nope. Uh-uh. Nope. No, no, no, no, no.
Ugh, ew. I could use another coffee, I think.
Yeah. So now we have cannibalism to add to it?
Well, because it's so not fun. I don't know the word.
It's so strange that you just said that because. literally right before you said that, I was going to be like, and they didn't even do anything with the breasts, so it's like, why are they even doing that?
Yeah. That makes it even more creepily symbolic.
And they wouldn't eat the whole thing. They would cut four pieces off and eat the pieces.
Ew. Yeah. What? And an ex-girlfriend of Get's said he often demanded... that she cut off her own nipple and said if she didn't do it, eventually he would.
And that's why they... They broke up. That's why they broke up.
Why didn't your last relationship work out?
Oh, because I wouldn't remove my fucking nipple.
What? I mean, it's just... He was married before and his ex-wife apparently had a scar on her chest from To prove that he actually wounded her, he tried to, like, mutilate her breasts.
So maybe this woman, why she's saying he's innocent is because she was just so scared of him.
I wonder. I need to say that's why because that's the only justification I can have in my mind.
Otherwise, I just don't know. And like I said, these men all believed he was powerful That this ritual gave him powers.
What power, though? What was he doing? I'm not real sure.
That's the thing. It's like... Like he drove around a van and like got donuts sometimes.
Like what fucking powers do you possess?
It doesn't look like he was killing it in life.
So like, I don't. i don't really understand i'm not sure so none of them would implicate him in the actual murders Do you think?
I think he definitely. I mean, because he also, he loved to have sex with the wounds.
Like, this dude was a cunt. Cutting off the breast.
Fucking crazy person. Yeah, he was cutting off the breast.
So that's fucking murder. So, but none of them would implicate him in like the stabbing or anything.
They all were like protecting him in a weird way.
They're like, I did it. Because he's the cult leader.
Ew. luckily, Beverly Washington, our girl, was like, no, it was him.
She was able to ID him and describe him.
So she was like, um yeah no this fucker is the one like he definitely was part of it right and you know So there was clearly at least one instance of attempted murder and he had tortured her.
She was like, yeah. So only five women's deaths were actually attributed to them like officially.
Yeah. But they believe it's upwards of 20 plus.
Yes, duh. And one of the sources I used for this, I watched a couple of documentaries, which I will try to find and link in the thing.
I did read a book, parts of a book called Deadly Thrills.
It's by Jade Slade Fletcher. and it's a crazy it's a really good book about this case and she believes wholeheartedly that there are other women.
She's like, one of the things is they did go after sex workers.
So unfortunately, There's probably many other women that we don't know about.
Absolutely. And he was and she even said she said something like I there might be. fields that like there's plenty of women in and we're just never gonna know about it that's awful and it's like oh that's like that just hurts to think about it uh... but she's really she's amazing and actually robin gett has said a lot about that book oh it's like really pissed off about it so you know it's true so you know it's true because he's like oh like if you read that length and you have this totally distorted because he writes letters to people like people have conversed with him And he'll say like, none of it is true.
I had nothing to do with this. He maintains his innocence till now.
Wow. Yeah. But that's a great book, Deadly Thrills.
So... There's actually another very crazy fact about Robin Getz.
What? He used to work for John Wayne Gacy. okay that's so bananas isn't that nuts it's so weird because in the middle obviously we're talking about Chicago so in the middle of this I was just kind of thinking about John Wayne Gacy just because of Chicago.
I feel like I had premonition in the middle of this episode.
When he was like a teenager and like a little over like 20s and stuff.
He worked with John Wayne Gacy with that contractor business.
Wow. Now, there's been no evidence to suggest or confirm that he was part of anything with John Wayne Gacy.
But the fact that those two men would work together and have no idea that the other one That each of them are serial killers.
That's like incomprehensible. And like deviant sexual sadists.
Like that's... What? How did they just happen to work for each other?
Well, that's insane. That's insane. But also I do wonder, because we know how John Wayne Casey was, if he was like assaulted somehow or like bore witness to it.
The assaults and then realize that that's what he wanted to do.
That that's what gets him going. Maybe Gacy was an idol of his.
Gacy could have been. One of those like, you know, like helped his psychopathy along.
Yeah. which is nature versus nurture which i looked it up and i couldn't find like anything to like that was really going into that i'm going to keep searching for it and if i can find dig anything up about the connection.
That is just nuts. I would love to look into that further because that is just...
Wow. When I found that, I was like, how in this great big world?
How did these two fuckers end up in the same fucking workplace?
Chicago's like way bigger than Boston. Yeah, it's a big place.
I mean Boston's kind of small. The fact that those two people happened to find each other is really, really crazy.
That's insane. So September 29th, 1983, Robin was convicted in Cook County of the vicious attack on Beverly Washington in the attempted murder.
And he was later given the sentence of 120 years.
Okay. Incredible. So he will be eligible for parole in 2042.
Oh, we'll still be alive, I think. I hope so.
Me too. I mean, like, knock, knock. I hope so.
But May 18th, 1984, Thomas Kokoralis was convicted of the murder of Laurie Borowski.
He was sentenced to life in prison. And why wasn't Robin?
Because there was just no implication of him in the murder. he was never implicated that's so fucked yeah he was there but he was never implicated wow March 4th, 1986, Edward, Edward the 21 year old, was convicted of Linda Sutton's murder and also confessed and pleaded guilty to four other murders.
Wow. Andrew and Edward were both sentenced to death. both of them.
Bye. November 13th, 1987, Thomas Kokoralis' guilty verdict is reversed.
I'm sorry what? Because of some kind of legal bullshit and he got a new trial.
So July 16th, 1987, he pled guilty to Lori's murder as part of a deal for a reduced sentence.
Now what was that motherfucking sentence?
So he was given a 70-year sentence. He's eligible for, this is where it gets weird.
So Illinois has a thing where you, at this time, Illinois had a thing where you were eligible for day-for-day credit for good behavior.
So if you were a good personer, you got the credit every day.
And so part of the deal was that they also agreed to drop charges for Linda Sutton's murder. as part of the plea deal.
We're gonna drop murder charges. Yeah, we're gonna drop them.
Okay. So he's in there, he's doing his 70 years, and he's getting his good credit, his good behavior credit.
So he could get off early. Oh, yeah, he could.
So Andrew Kokoralis was executed by lethal injection on March 17th, 1999.
He was the last prisoner to be executed in Illinois.
Oh wow. When Governor George Ryan was leaving office, he communed... He, like, uh... commuted i don't know what i was like communicated community commuted All death row sentences to life in prison, so Edward's death sentence was commuted to life without parole in 2003.
Ah. So Edward is life without parole. He's not getting it.
It's so nuts to me that he has life without parole and Robin get, like, I mean, at least he has a It's insane.
Well, back to Thomas Kokorelis, the 70-year-old.
70-year sentence. He served half of his sentence.
Oh, my. And was released on March 29th, 2019.
I knew you were going to tell me this. At the age of...
58 years old, so perfectly capable of still committing brutal heinous acts.
All he really has to do is stay registered as a sex offender for the rest of his life. and he's listed on the illinois state police murder registry last i could see He's living at the Wayside Cross Ministries in Aurora and is taking part in their program for troubled men.
He did one, he did an interview and it's the most infuriating interview you'll ever seen.
What did he say? He takes zero responsibility.
Of course not. He says, quote, everyone thinks I'm a monster.
I'm not a monster. No, you are. No, you're a fucking monster, bro.
You're the monster. He also said about the victim's families, he said, they don't want to see me out there on the streets, period.
And then he said, I'm much calmer now. I'm nicer, not mean.
I used to have a bad attitude. Oh, that's one way to describe that.
You're gonna chalk up murder to your bad attitude?
Rape. Torture and murder is just having a bad attitude.
It's an attitude problem. Something you grow out of, you know.
Okay. Yeah. And he also said about the victims families, he said, quote, I don't want to talk to them.
I just want to say I feel sorry for them.
Feel sorry. I just want to say I feel sorry for them.
Feel sorry for them. And I'm praying for them.
Okay. What? You're praying for them? You think that makes up for the loss of their fucking children that you took?
Exactly. And his last little thing that I saw in the interview that I was like, I literally want to punch you in the nuts so hard.
He said, quote, they want to see me back behind bars permanently, but they got to deal with it.
I'm out. So it seems as though you still have a bad attitude.
Oh, yeah. Certainly does. Like, go fuck yourself.
And Laurie's brother, Mark, is like specifically like very enraged about this, obviously, because he full on admitted. to murdering her right he admitted to everything how does an admitted an admitted murderer walk free it's Unbelievable.
And then go, I don't want to talk to the family.
It's truly a miscarriage of justice. Like, you don't want to talk to them?
Like, do you think they want to talk to you?
And also I'm praying for them. Oh, fuck right off with that.
You could have saved yourself a lot of prayers and just not killed their kid.
They don't want your dirty ass prayers. Yeah, that's for sure. you're doing something that you're not doing like fuck you like and her brother mark was has said like my that his biggest thing is that he's working that he's going to re-offend he is going to re-offend and he was like he's young enough he's got the mentality and he was like I feel like he's going to reoffend and that's going to be when they put him away forever but we're going to lose someone else.
Right. And that's going to be on Illinois.
It's really scary. That is fucked up. Because I don't think murder is something that you can be... rehabilitated from not this kind of like premeditated right planned out like vicious, torturous murder, like sexual, sadistic murder.
Right. It's that you don't know. You're not being rehabilitated.
It's not like this was like a robbery gone wrong where you shot somebody.
Like a crime of passion, which I'm not like advocating that that's fine.
I'm just saying. Those are a little different because they're like a snap situation.
But when you're like planning it, I just don't see this was methodical.
I don't see it. no so that's the story of Chicago's Ripper Crew I'm like pissed.
I didn't know all these details. Like when I started reading, I was like, how did I miss this one?
I hadn't heard of it. So I felt like it was one that I don't know.
I didn't I honestly didn't look to see if any other like podcasts covered it.
They might have. I'm not really sure. I don't like to listen to podcasts before I do a podcast about one.
It's hard. Yeah. But I'm going to go check and see.
Because then your brain might accidentally say something.
Yeah, you don't want to like say things the way someone else says things like accidentally.
It'll just like be in your head. I'll do it after. afterwards.
Yeah, I always listen after. I'm like, oh, what did they say?
Look at that. So yeah, so hopefully everybody was able to... get through this one.
And yeah, it was... It was a gnarly experience looking up this one, but I thought it should be told.
And holy hell. Damn. Holy hell. Well, next week we're going to bring you to a haunted place.
We'll bring it back to the spooky, like the fun spooky.
A little haunted cleanser for you. Yeah, we'll bring that.
Wow. And in the meantime, you can follow us.
There's never any good way to sell this into this.
You can follow us on Instagram. At Morbid Podcast.
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And get yourself one of our nice cozy sweatshirts.
Yes, do it. Or t-shirts. And you know what?
Also, go take a listen to Crime Countdown on Parcast. because it's a lot of fun and we're doing something fun for spooky season.
Yeah, we are. Yay. We hope you keep listening.
And we hope you keep it weird. But not so weird that you don't get rehabilitated for murder.
Not so weird that you do literally any of these things.
Not so weird that you took notes during this episode.
Yeah. No. Not that weird. No. If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.
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