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I have been listening to the Martha's Vineyard Beach and Book Club, which actually Elena recommended to me.
She did not listen to it, but she said, girl, this title sounds so you.
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Hey weirdos, I'm Elena. I'm Ash. And this is a really big morbid.
This might be one of the biggest morbids.
Yeah, I was gonna split this one into several parts, but I just don't want to.
She just got way too excited to, like, and, like, really, like, down into the nitty gritty.
To spill this. You gotta, like, you are about to, like, Pour over the boiling hot tea onto everyone.
It's this case. So today we're doing the case... sorry i don't even know how that just happened oh man Today we are doing the case of Tamla Horsford, which...
This one has been requested a bunch of times.
It's one that's been sitting on my list forever and now just seems like the best time to do it yeah for sure and it's even i mean it's the best time to do it anyways in general but also the case has just recently been reopened so It's huge that we get it out right now.
Now, I only know like very scarce details.
Like I know like a very basic overview of this case.
But when I came over, I saw you listening to something and I was like, oh my God, the case is closed.
You're like, what? Hearing you say that it's reopened, I was like, oh, okay, good.
Also, did you say scarce details? Yeah.
That's not a word. Scarce? Scarce. And sparse.
I was just saying, oh, I meant sparse. I think you put scarce and sparse together.
I did. I liked it. But it's like the same thing.
So like I was just making it one word. combining it i liked it i mean you're welcome i like it scars you're like wait what the fuck i was like so do you know a lot of details or not a lot i i clearly don't know anything i love it i just had to point that out scars uh name the episode it's like cruel it is like girl i was gonna say cool and then i started to say great i had to do it so this one this one's crazy um and by the way uh ash is gonna say that i don't even need to say this but i had dental work done recently oh my god And I feel like I'm lisping slightly.
So if you're literally not at all. I know.
But you know how like in your head when you feel like you are.
I just feel like I need to say it. Yeah.
In case I do list, people aren't like, are you OK?
Like, why did she just develop a list? I told Elena that I would lisp like throughout the whole thing if she wanted me to so that people would notice it more about me even though you're not lisping at all.
But just in case. there might be a couple of things that maybe are like what now so we're gonna get something straight about this case like we're gonna jump right into this we're gonna treat it like a mini even though it's gonna be a maximum morbid but basically because this is going to be so long we just don't even want to spend time on anything else in this episode so we're going to get one thing straight right off the bat This case takes place in Forsyth County, Georgia.
This is a pretty notoriously racist county.
I know a lot of people got mad at me in the Kendrick Johnson episode because I mentioned that about that county.
But this one, like... Well, the facts are the facts.
You really can't paint this picture any other way.
Yeah, there's no other way to say this. So...
Just to give you a little background so that you're not like, what are you saying?
It's a racist. What do you mean, Elena?
In 1912, white residents of the county literally forced all the black people out of the fucking county.
Yeah, that's not okay. They forced all 1,098 black residents out.
Just completely out. Just out of the county.
Black residents were warned that if they refused and tried to stay, their homes would be burned down.
That's the most horrific thing. Yeah. So that's pretty racist.
I would go ahead and say that, yes, it is.
Well, what's even worse is they kept up this whites-only shit well into the 1980s.
Now when you tell me that they kept this up until the 1980s I was like how is that even fucking possible?
Yeah. In fact, in 1987, Black demonstrators marched in Forsyth to bring awareness to the racism there.
And while they peacefully marched, white supremacists threw rocks at them and waved Confederate flags. and signs saying shit like keep Forsyth racially pure racially pure yeah racially pure And there was the N-word everywhere.
People were screaming the N-word at these people.
Like, ridiculous. Yeah. But the positive thing that did come out of this was weeks later, they marched again.
They were not deterred by that racist bullshit, and they ended up killing it.
Good. They were like 20,000 strong. And it was massive, this peaceful march.
Like black, white, everything. good it should have been of course racist assholes came out but they were much much fewer right they were you know The peaceful majority ruled.
And it was seen as a success. So... As we go through this case, we must not be remiss to forget the fucking backdrop that it takes place on.
Yeah, let's definitely keep that in our memory.
I'm not saying this county is still obviously like that, but it's still very white and very conservative.
Currently only a 4% black population. So very outnumbered.
That's just, these are just facts. This is not my opinion.
This is not a political statement. It is straight.
Facts. So let's talk about Tamela. So Tamela was born in the Caribbean and was a Caribbean through and through.
She was very averse to cold weather of any kind.
She was one of those people who can't handle if the temp dropped below like 70.
That's like what I'm waiting for. i can't wait but she was like no no she was married to a man named leander who she called lee A lot of people refer to him as Lee.
A lot of people called her Tam. That was like her nickname.
They were married for 16 years and they lived in Florida originally at the beginning of their marriage.
Tamla had five sons. They had five sons together.
And also had a stepdaughter that she had from another relationship.
That was from another relationship. Okay.
These boys were ranging four to 14 years old.
We got to like little babes. Yeah. And the family minus the stepdaughter eventually moved to Cumming in Forsyth County, Georgia. when Leander got a new job.
Okay. So they were super psyched about it.
The stepdaughter was older. That's why she didn't move with them.
They were super excited about it. It was like a great opportunity for mainly for the Suns to excel further in football because they were all really into football.
And this is like a big football county. So they were like, cool.
It's going to be great. Perfect. Yeah. Super committed to it.
Tamla loved being a football mom. Aww. She attended all the games.
She was also just present as a parent in general.
Like in her kids' lives. She was very much a mom.
Good for her. I mean, she also volunteered in her kids schools all the time for like various things.
She was always volunteering in school. They said you could always find her there.
I love that. She just made sure she was involved and was giving back all the time.
Her family was everything. Everything. She was a mom.
She loved being a mom. And she and her husband were like in love.
They were happy. They were just like a very like close-knit.
Oh, they were a tight family. Like they were together.
Yeah, they were together all the time. People referred to her as quote, open, giving, and the life of the party.
That's what everyone said. A friend said, quote, you couldn't not like this girl if you tried.
Her husband told police that his wife, quote, had the biggest heart on the planet.
She was a super together person, very organized, and she was able to make everyone feel included all the time.
Right. Even if you didn't know her very well, you were gonna know her.
She's like, come on over here. She was not timid.
She was not going to make it awkward. In fact, as we'll see during the course of this night that she went to, she didn't know a lot of these women.
Right. And she was, like, hamming it up with them.
Like, just being, like, we're best friends now.
Yeah. So... So yeah, so this seems like one of those instances where the she lit up a room comments after they pass away are actually true.
Like this was actually real. Not a bad word to say about Tamela.
I literally couldn't find anybody being like, yeah, you know, she kind of sucked this way or like she had demons in this situation.
No, she was just like the shit. And every photo of her, she's like happy, smiling.
Yeah. She looks like super, like she has like a great smile.
Yeah. She's beautiful and seemingly just like a happy, cool person to be around.
In coming, she met a lot of other football moms, moms through school. that she ended up befriending.
She met her best friend Michelle Graves there when she moved there.
They were best friends for like five years.
Uh-huh. And again, she was very into meeting other moms through her children because she was so committed to being around them.
And then it's like, cool, you have kids, like, you're going to get that, like, we can go to these things together and, like, do this together.
It's an easy way. So November 3rd, 2018.
The 45th birthday slash adult sleepover party was held for Jaune Myers.
So now Jaune is a girl. It's spelled like Jean.
Oh, okay. J-E-A-N-N-E. I read one of your things and I was reading Jean the whole time.
So I was like, who's Jean? I was too. It's Jean.
So this is John Myers' house. The party was thrown by a woman named Stacy.
I think it's Stacy Smith actually. Okay.
This party was a bunch of white football moms.
Uh-huh. uh tamla was the only black woman there the only black person there okay uh tamla knew jean because their sons played football together okay She didn't know a lot of the women at the party.
Some of them she'd only met like once or twice.
They were like acquaintances. Right. They knew who each other was.
Men were not supposed to be present at this party.
It was supposed to be like a girl's sleepover kind of thing.
But apparently, Jose Barrera, the 27-year-old boyfriend of the woman who owned the home, the 45-year-old woman, Sean, he was there.
Even though he was supposed to be gone for the night.
Right. Which is a little strange. Why was he there?
He was along with Stacy's husband, Thomas.
They were there and according to reports and interviews, they said they were supposed to be out of the house, but they said...
Neither one of them were feeling like leaving.
They didn't want to go anywhere. So they decided to just hang at Jean's house because this was not Jose's home.
This was Jean's home. They told the ladies they would hang in the basement.
There was like a theater room down there.
Oh, casual. Yeah, it's a casual theater room.
They ended up coming upstairs at one point because there was like a big LSU football game that day.
That was the other thing they were going to be watching.
It was like a big deal. Um, so at some point they did come upstairs and like join the girls because they saw that food was out.
So they just kind of like, that's when the guys come running.
Yeah. They came up to sniff around the food.
Yeah. And then they just ended up hanging out.
So from his police interview later, Jose, so the interviewer says, so you and Tom kind of hung out downstairs mostly. y'all weren't going to be part of the party initially.
And Jose Barrera says, correct. It was initially pitched to me that Tom didn't want to be at his house because there was some something going on at his house also women So the idea was just, we'll hang out somewhere.
I didn't feel like spending the money. I wasn't feeling so hot anyways.
So I'm like, well, So I talked to Jean and said, can we just hang out in the basement?
We'll stay out of your hair. Okay. So it's like, what?
That's random. He didn't want to be there because women, but then it was like... we'll stay with all the women you didn't want to spend the money you didn't feel good but Tom also didn't want to go to his house because something was going on even though his wife was at this place it's like what Yeah, that doesn't make any sense.
What is it? Why did you stay? Just say one thing.
Can you just tell me a cohesive story? It's just really strange.
Barrera was a pretrial court officer for Forsyth County, by the way.
So he's in law enforcement. That's important later.
Of course it is. Jean's aunt, Madeline Lombardi, was also there because she lived in the basement apartment in the home.
Okay. So the party began at around 6.30, 7 o'clock.
Tamla showed up later at around 8.30-ish because she was getting her kids all settled.
Right. And... if I can't relate to that shit like I am basically unavailable at night until after 8pm as Ash can tell you because it's just a chaotic scene of trying to like bathe kids feed kids get them read stories get them down like well she had five of them And she has five of them to deal with.
And one of them was like four. Yeah. And so, and she also, I guess she stayed to like make them dinner, make sure they had dinner, make sure her husband was also.
Yeah, make sure they're all settled. Because, I mean, she's leaving the husband with the five kids.
It's like, I would want to make sure everything was, like...
It's probably like double checking and triple checking everything.
Because especially like, you know, you're I mean, if you have a good husband or partner or wife or anything.
Yeah. You trust, obviously, that you can leave and everything's going to run smoothly.
But at the end of the day, you're a mom.
Well, and you also just want to make it easier because I would feel like I would feel bad leaving Chaos, even though I know John can handle it.
Yeah, it's a mom thing. I would rather leave it smooth, you know?
And so I think she was making dinner. She was just making sure everything was settled.
She even left a casserole for the breakfast the next morning.
Stop it. Made a casserole, left it for them.
Because she was like, I want to make sure you guys are totally set.
So that, and I feel like that even speaks to the kind of, like, woman that she was.
It definitely does. Now, she brought a fancy bottle of tequila to give to Jaune as a birthday gift.
She stopped on the way. That's so nice.
The whole plan was that they were all going to watch the LSU versus Alabama football game.
They were gonna have some drinks, they were gonna, you know, eat some gumbo, eat some picky food, and they were gonna have an adult sleepover.
Now, see, that's all well and fine, but an adult sleepover sounds like my worst nightmare.
Everything about this, I was like, oh, I don't want anything to do with this.
A girl's night, I'm so down for. Like, midnight, bye.
Yeah, absolutely. Midnight, 1 o'clock, I'm like, ooh, I'm going to sleep in my own bed.
Oh, yeah. Bye. That's exactly it. it, but by all accounts, including her husband's account, she was having a good time, she was She was happy to be having some girl time because she had five kids in a house of six dudes yeah all the time again all her kids were boys yeah she needed she needed some girl time yeah i don't blame her So she called Leander at one point around like 10-ish and she said, I'm having a good time.
He was feeling good that she was having a night to relax a little bit.
She also FaceTimed her daughter and I think the rest of her family at one point just to show them off to the party.
Stop. Which, like... makes my heart hurt yeah and this is gonna destroy me isn't it great They played... So the partygoers played Cards Against Humanity and just like hung out.
It was just like a chill time. I love it too because...
All these women told investigators they remember Tamla smoking a joint on the porch at one point.
But only one of them would be like, oh, yeah, like I've taken a hit of marijuana before.
Well, let's be real. All of you were smoking together.
Come on. Come on. And like, if you're going to smoke a joint in somebody's house, typically you're like, like, you know that they also smoke or you know that they're cool with it.
Exactly. So it shouldn't have been like a thing.
It's also like I feel like it was a lot of things were presented in a way to almost make sense.
Tamela look bad. And it was like trying to be like, well, I've only done it once.
In my whole life. It's like weed? Well, then you probably suck.
But she was there doing this, so... So it's kind of like, eh.
Also, Jeanne said she didn't want the present from Tamla because...
She said she told police the smell of the tequila made her quote, throw up in her mouth.
Like, okay, ladies. What does that have to do with anything that you didn't want her gift?
You don't have to be nasty. Like, it's just like, ugh.
I already was like, I don't like you. Mm-hmm.
These are like those moms it sounds like.
Yeah, it's just no one I want to hang out with.
No, Tamla drank a lot, but no one said... Because she's having some fucking girl time.
Well, they're staying there. And no one, and now the thing is, everyone says she was never out of control.
They never thought she appeared drunk. They said she never... appeared like she couldn't stand, that she was slurring, nothing.
They said she appeared buzzed at most. Yeah, she's at a girl's sleepover.
She was definitely drinking a lot, but she could hold her alcohol.
She just could handle it. Now, one chick, Jennifer Murrell, was drunk off her ass and had to be carried into bed.
Okay. Everyone repeatedly said that they just never, ever saw Tamla out of control, which is good.
Yeah. It's like. Okay, so we know that she was not out of control.
Now, Tamla and Bridget Fuller, another woman at the party, were the last ones awake at 1.45 a.m.
Okay. Now, Fuller's husband picked her up around this time and Tamla said goodbye to her.
This is the last time that anyone claims to have seen her alive.
But obviously somebody saw her. So at around 830 in the morning.
The next morning, according to Madeline, which is Jean's aunt, she was making coffee and peered through the window while she was, like, getting the grinds going.
And she looked into the backyard and she noticed some pajamas that were peeking over the grass.
Like she could see something lying in the grass.
She could see. and she realized it's Tamla, because she could tell.
Because she had, like, Dalmatian pajamas on.
They weren't Dalmatians. It was like an adult onesie and it had paw prints all over it.
Oh, okay. Cute. Yeah. um so as soon as she sees tamla horsford face down in the grass not moving she immediately said in her police interview this just like took i was like what that's what you did what did she do she said quote so um i didn't start the coffee i i got on my knees and i said a prayer What?
So let me just get this straight. What, you think someone's dead?
So you look outside. in the window and you see a motionless human being on the back in the backyard face down with their face buried in the grass not moving and seemingly not breathing And you don't go to help them?
You know what that says to me? Is that she knows something went real bad and she was praying for everybody else that was there.
What? So then she said, so I said a prayer and then I ran upstairs and I knocked on the door and I thought I heard water running.
And I thought maybe it was Jean taking a shower.
So I went downstairs because I was like thinking I shouldn't wake up.
Maybe she's up. So I went downstairs and I looked out the window again and it was just like, I couldn't believe my eyes.
I was saying inside my head, she's not moving.
She's not moving. So then I went and knocked on the door louder. to john's room and it's like wait what why didn't you go outside so girl okay so you dropped to your knees and prayed immediately which like Cool.
Definitely take your time. For sure. She's not in any distress.
Can you just say like a quick prayer out loud while you're like running to action?
You are admitting right here. that you are saying she's not moving, she's not moving.
It was clear to you that she was not moving.
Right. So something was wrong. Right. So you ran up to John's room where you hear water running and you think she's in the shower.
You knock on the door. Get her out of the shower.
No one comes to the door. So then you run back downstairs and you just go, oh, no, ah, ooh.
And then you're like, okay, I should go back upstairs.
So you go back upstairs and knock on her door.
What are you doing? That makes no sense.
This is just like the other, the Jose story where he's like, I was in the basement because like I had to be, but I didn't want to be because Tom didn't want to be in his house. and the you know money this is nothing compared to the convoluted statements that get told over and over again So now, remember, Madeline has just said that she looked out the window and saw Tamla on the ground.
She went right to Jean's room. She heard water running.
She thought someone was in the shower. No one answered the door.
She went downstairs. She came back up, knocked on the door again.
Remember that. Okay. So 8.45 a.m., Madeline knocked on Jean's door again.
According to Jose and Jean, she and Jose were sleeping.
Then why was the water running? Why was the water running?
Right. And of course Madeline's like, I think I heard the water running.
I don't know. No, you know when you hear water running.
No, you can definitely tell when somebody's showering or washing their hands or whatever.
Well, when they let her in, she was like obviously a bit frantic.
And she said, I need to speak to Jose right away.
Now, this is John's aunt. Right. Like, what?
Why do you need to speak to the 27-year-old boyfriend?
Right. Who doesn't even live in the house.
I'd be like, I don't care who the fuck I talk to.
There's a dead body in the backyard. I'd be like, someone listen.
So she tells them Tamla's lying down in the backyard, face down, not moving at all.
And she referred to her as your friend from the islands is down in the back.
She said she wanted to talk to Jose and she wanted Jose to look at Tamla.
Why? Because he was in law? I have no idea.
Was he in law enforcement? What's his job?
Yeah, he was like a court officer. So maybe that's why, but it also makes no fucking sense.
Still doesn't... I'm like, why would you even, like, specify?
Yeah, you're... Right. I would just say call 911.
He never tried CPR. No one ever tried CPR on her.
They never turned her over and no one attempted to see if she was really breathing.
Right, because she could have been. She was face down.
So she's laying face, and when I say face down, not head to the side, face in the grass down.
To me, I would flip my friend over to be like, what is happening here?
If it was my friend. I mean, I know you're not supposed to move a body, but like...
Sometimes you don't think of that. You don't know that they're dead.
You should be wanting to help them. Well, if he worked in law enforcement, you would think that he would know to try CPR or something, right?
Well, he said he touched her back to see if she was breathing.
He couldn't feel any breathing. He also said he tried to move her leg and realized that she was completely stiff.
He just moved her leg? He couldn't bend her leg.
Which to me is the weirdest first response to a body I've ever heard in my life. that your first thing that you do is that you try to bend her leg?
I feel like, to me, it just feels like they didn't want to touch her.
You know what I mean? It's just strange.
Right. Like, and I mean that, and, like, they thought it was, like, a weird thing.
Like, they didn't want to do it. Well, and it gets weirder.
So he's saying her leg wouldn't bend. He couldn't bend her leg.
So she's stiff, completely stiff. So we have rigor.
Does that mean that she's been dead for a while?
Well, we're going to discuss it in length later.
Don't worry. So 8.59 a.m., Jaune calls 911. told the dispatcher about the party and the scene in front of her she said quote we were drinking Okay.
Okay. Now, then she suggests that she may have fallen off the balcony.
She then gives the, so she's like, I don't know, she must have fallen off the balcony.
And then she hands the phone to Jose. To do what?
And she's like, you talk to them. So Jose says at one point, I don't know if this cut was self-inflicted.
What? So now... It's a small cut. Wait a second.
She committed suicide? Now you're insinuating that she slit her wrists?
Right. What? And now you're saying she's not breathing whatsoever, but as we'll see soon, he then says, I don't know if she's breathing.
Oh, okay. That's very different. Is she breathing or not breathing whatsoever?
I don't understand. so first they're saying you know she's she was drinking she must have fallen off the balcony and then they're like maybe she slit her wrists i don't know like it's all of a sudden turning into this weird like what are you guys doing it's like we didn't do it i don't she didn't she must have done this this and this because i had nothing to do with it worried about oh I don't know if she's alive or not like no one we're just gonna theorize about how she got there like maybe try to help her Right.
And 911 dispatcher never is like, do you want to try CPR?
They never ask that. They're just like, oh, okay.
She's... Do you think she jumped? Like, they're just like, what?
They're like, let's try to figure out what happened.
It's so bizarre. Like, that's not your job.
Also, Jose first says, like I said before, she isn't breathing.
Not breathing at all. Completely.
And he says whatsoever. Yeah, whatsoever.
She isn't breathing, isn't moving, and she is stiff.
Completely stiff. He literally says this to her.
Yeah. The dispatcher then asks again, is she moving or breathing?
And he says, I have no idea if she's moving or breathing.
And he says, quote, I completely can't tell. okay so that's yeah what but wait you said you touched her back to see if she was breathing and she wasn't Whatsoever.
Whatsoever. Whatsoever breathing. And now you've gone the other way saying you completely can't tell.
Not even, like, I'm not sure. That's, like, a totally... That's the opposite end of the wavelength there.
So then the dispatcher is, like... starts latching onto this idea of like, oh, she has a cut on her wrist.
Was she suicidal? And they're like, oh, yeah, I don't know.
Like, I don't know her. Like, and he does say he's like, I don't know her.
I've only met her like last night and maybe one other time.
Right. And he was like, I can't tell you.
And then at one point he says, because they're asking about the balcony up above.
And they're saying, so Jose says, quote, It's about 20 feet from where your feet are standing on the railing.
So now he's literally just saying she stood on the railing and jumped.
Not that she accidentally fell. No. Now he's literally just committed to, well, when you stand on the railing, it's 20 feet.
And also, how do you know that? Like, what?
So now we're just assuming she stood on the railing and jumped?
Like, what? So he then says... Very definitively.
We have cameras up on the on the porch, on the balcony.
Perfect. Covers the whole balcony. And he says, we will check them. oh and he says thank you so much and he says many times he says it'll catch the whole thing whatever happened on that balcony will be on those cameras and then he says we will check them Oh, my God.
I bet they malfunctioned that night at that exact time, huh?
Well, he says, you know, I'm going to do it.
Don't worry. No one tells him. No, no, sir.
Do not touch those. Give them to law enforcement.
No one says that to him. And in fact, they were never given to police.
Oh, shocking. And they were never given to police and later they were accidentally deleted.
I mean, it's common mistake in these things.
It seems to happen. I often delete vital pieces of evidence when someone dies in my backyard.
All the time. It's just so easy to do. Right.
What? And we'll talk about that even more later.
Don't worry about it. so jose said to dispatch on the 911 call he says i last saw tamla at 1am in the kitchen And he said, I think she was like waiting for a ride or she was waiting until morning.
That's what he says. okay and he's so they're like she was waiting until morning she was waiting for a ride or just waiting up till morning So police, specifically lead investigator Christian, arrive at 9.07 a.m.
The officers on scene immediately saw Jose and were like, oh shit, hey, we know you.
Hey, what's up? Because... You're a felony probation officer in Forsyth County.
Cool. So he, and he had initially worked there, um, and was currently working in pretrial court at that moment.
Okay. So he was a felony probation agent at first, and then he was a pretrial court officer got it they determined immediately tamla was deceased yep And the coroner and CSI show up.
Now, initially, EMS was never sent to the scene.
Which is weird because he said he didn't know if she was breathing, so they should have been.
And investigators made the call that she was dead.
Not a medical examiner or a coroner. Which is, like, very unusual.
So they didn't, they are supposed to call EMS.
To confirm. Because they can't make that call. you don't make the cause like you don't say that she's dead that's not you don't pronounce that right that's not what you're just trying to figure out why she's dead Now like I said, Tamla was lying face down.
Yeah. And when investigators found her, she had one arm up and out and one arm down by her side.
Okay. So her right wrist was clearly swollen, broken and dislocated.
And this was the wrist that was up and out.
Tried to break her fall, probably. That's what they were saying.
So this arm position is noted in the sketch of the crime scene.
That's how she was found. Remember that.
So her body was sent to the Georgia Bureau of Investigations for an autopsy.
They also sent her there because even the investigators thought her body was in a strange position.
Yeah, that is a weird position. Yeah, when they first saw it, they were like, I don't know if this really goes along with falling.
Jumping off or falling. And then they also were like, weird that there's a lack of blood pooling around her.
Like there's no blood on the ground. Yeah, because if you had fallen from that much, it would have been so much impact.
Exactly. And it's just very weird from a fall from that height.
And don't you think she would have like broken her nose if she was face first?
Oh, yeah. And we'll get to that. Don't worry.
But then they hypothesized, okay, maybe she tripped over this like lip. that was bordering the grass.
It's like this lip when you walk out onto the backyard.
Okay, yeah. A little landscape thing. They were like, maybe she tripped over that because she had, like, some kind of... seizure or something so she didn't break her fall because she just tripped and boom okay so yeah so they were like that's why there wasn't a lot you know that's why she landed face down because maybe she didn't even put her hands out but that still doesn't explain the broken wrist or any of the other because also if you tripped you're not gonna like break your fucking wrist that bad no especially not from that just falling from like straight down right now they cut and we'll get into the injuries in a minute don't worry so they called back the women and men who had already left the party like the night before they're like you need to come right on over yeah they were like you need to come back so So everyone who is still in the home, so they put these people in two places.
The people that were still in the home, they kept in one place.
The people that were coming back, they put in another.
Mm-hmm. Now, one room was, you know, they were separated that way, but...
They were also left to speak to each other.
To congregate and get their story straight.
They could co-mingle within these groups.
So in the reports, Jean says two women, Sarah and Nicole, had to leave somewhere around 1030-ish the night before.
They were the first ones to leave. Okay.
It's like fuzzy whether they had to leave because they had to take care of kids or puppies.
Like there's two different stories there.
You know, kids. Some little life needed their caring.
Kids are fur babies. um at 1 47 a.m was when bridget left when her husband came to pick her up she was the last person to say she saw Tama.
And then at 4.10 a.m., Marcy left. Marcy left, I guess, at 4.10 a.m. because I think she had to go to, like, work at a job that she worked on the weekends.
So she just left early. 7.45 a.m., a woman named Paula left.
And 8.30 a.m., Tom and Stacy, who were married, left.
So Tom and Stacey, I'm like, how did you not see anything 15 minutes before?
Literally. Now remember... Jose said he last saw Tamla at like 1 a.m. in the kitchen.
Remember? And he told 911 she seemed like she was deciding whether to leave or wait until morning.
He also told another officer that he saw Tamla last at 1.30 a.m.
And that she specifically said to him that she was going outside to have a smoke and then sleeping on the couch or upstairs in a guest bedroom.
Okay. So now he's told two different stories within a couple of hours about, was she contemplating leaving or was she definitively staying for the night?
Because you literally just told two different things.
One, you saw her at one. She was pretty sure she was going to leave.
She wasn't sure if she was going to call someone to get her or if she was just going to wait up until morning.
In the second one, now it's 1.30. And she's figuring out where she's going to sleep.
She's going to have a cigarette, which that's suddenly new.
Because that places her on the balcony. Exactly.
So now she's going to get a cigarette and she's telling you, I'm going to sleep on the couch or upstairs.
Right. So it's like, which one? Well, now I wonder, too, because it's like, why would she want to wait up until morning to leave?
You know what I mean? Like, something happened.
Well, that's the thing. Where she was upset.
Yeah, exactly. Now, almost everyone at this point... or at one point or another, tells investigators that Tamla at some point Like, right to what you were saying.
In the evening or early morning, wanted to leave.
Yeah. She wanted to go home. Something happened.
Everyone mentions it and they all say she expressed that she wanted to go home but no one would let her.
Under the whole, like, you drank too much, we don't want you to drive.
So then call her husband. Then it's like, I get that you don't want her to drive.
Drive her home. Except this is 2018. Call an Uber.
Oh, wow. Who am I? Just Uber. Yeah. And it's like, you could have called her an Uber if she wanted to leave.
And it appeared from everyone's statements that...
She was also totally under control, so she likely could have called one for herself.
Right. No one's saying she's like slobbering drunk and can't do it.
Right. She could have called her. So you could have been like, get an Uber.
I'll stay up and wait for you. But they were probably, like, scaring her into staying for an hour. everyone's saying it's like what happened that she wanted to leave first of all and two why was no one just letting her go go yeah because up until this point she was having a grand time like face time your family and everything so it's like huh so jose also said to 9-1-1 this is where it gets even weirder So he had said to 911, he was woken out of sleep by Madeline or Madeline.
And he and John came out of their room and saw Tamla outside.
But in the incident report, the officer writes, quote...
Jose told me while he was cleaning up the following morning, he found an unlit cigarette and a lighter lying on the floor of the porch.
The brand of cigarettes matched the cigarettes Tamla smoked.
What? So wait, I thought you were woken out of sleep by Madeline to check Tamla, but now you were cleaning up?
Yeah, what were you cleaning up? When were you cleaning up?
And then several of the partygoers say in the reports... that they had woken up and started cleaning up.
At what time? But initially, the story was that Madeline woke up before everyone, saw Tamla and woke up Jose and John.
Right. So was everyone up and cleaning? Or was... Is Madeline's story correct?
Right. Because both... It's... These are all very separate.
And now it's like, okay, so Madeline says she went to the door of Jose and Jean's bedroom.
And someone was showering. Heard someone shower. showering or water running maybe washing their hands jose and jean are saying no she woke us out of a dead sleep But then I was also cleaning.
But then I was also cleaning and found these cigarettes.
Well, I was sleepwalking. Like, what? Doesn't make any sense.
Now, both Jean and Jose state several times that Tamla was the only smoker.
Uh-huh. In fact, every one of these people say many times, they harp on the fact she was the only smoker out of all of us. and that she went outside on the balcony several times to smoke.
Except I saw in somebody else's interview that they said they thought she was just one of those smokers who, like, drinks... and smokes like a casual smoker and they said like she wasn't smoking like that much like it wasn't she went out a couple times but these people are like oh yeah she went out a ton of times Okay.
So they're trying to make her look bad again.
And both Jose and John eventually both said that at 1 a.m. they both saw her now.
And they said that she was going outside to smoke.
So now they've convened on this. She's having one last cigarette.
And then going to sleep. So now they're...
They first started out... They're in agreeance.
Exactly. And they first started out with this like...
At first, it was Jeanne saying she saw her at one and that she said she I think it was Jeanne says at one point that she saw her at one o'clock. that tamla was like you should stay up like i don't get to hang out with girls too much like i don't get out like please stay up i want to like hang out some more yeah and john was like no like i gotta go to sleep And now she's saying that she saw her at one and that she told her she was going to go have another smoke and then go to sleep.
Yeah, different stories, again. Which is Jose's second story that he spun.
So it seems like they got together and were like, shit, we need to hold these a little bit.
We need to save up. And now Jose has moved his from 1.30 to 1 o'clock again.
So that they're in perfect harmony. So now they're in perfect harmony.
Good, good, good, good. Now, Jeanne also described her to the 911 investigator as she said she face-planted.
She goes, she's face planted on the backyard.
Oh, not lying in the grass face down or something like that, which to me is just very off way of saying.
Well, face-planted makes it seem like you were a drug mess and you ate shit, basically.
It insinuates that you face-planted. It's like...
How do you know she's face-planting? Yeah, you don't know that.
That's weird. Like, that's insinuating action.
Right. It's just very weird to me. So Jean also told, and they were very open about this, which I think a lot of these, I have cameras, I have this, I have that.
It's like, we can document what... what was going on last night, just so you guys know.
Right. Jean also had a security app on her phone. and it sent notifications whenever doors were open and shut in the house.
Now, Jose immediately told 911 this. Like, he was like, let me tell you, she has an app on her phone and it can say when doors open, which is like, that's not even helpful.
I was going to say. Doors were probably opening and shutting all fucking night long.
And they were not very keen. They were very keen to remind investigators of this a lot.
Like, we have that app. We have that app.
I can tell you when the doors open. And to me, their obsession with spilling this information was... they really were trying to overly account for what was going on that night.
Like the app says what doors open and close and what times.
But they don't tell you how many people go through those doors.
Yeah, right. Or, like, catch somebody, like, falling off a balcony after the door shuts.
So it's a good way to look helpful without actually providing a real alibi.
Right. So it's a good way for them to go, look at how cooperative we are.
Here you go. Here's all these things. But they don't really give any information.
Right. It's just like a facade. Now, Myers, the security thing on her phone, said that the front door was opened at 1.47 p.m.
Or a.m., excuse me. And that what that was said to be when Bridget left with her husband.
Okay. So that's when she said she last saw Tamla.
Um, Then the balcony door opens at 149 and closes at 150. then it opens at 157 and never closes again.
Okay, so Jaune says, of course, Jaune is like, well, this was probably Tamla after saying goodbye to Bridget going on the porch to smoke. at 149, 150.
And if the door opened again at 157, that's a normal amount of time for a smoke break, like seven minutes.
But why didn't the door close again? Right.
And why didn't Madeline notice that the next morning that the fucking balcony door was wide open?
That'd be a weird thing. Because it was definitely closed.
Right. But was she walking back in the house and something happened? like she wouldn't have walked back in and left the door open and obviously she found she was found outside so she didn't go back in the house right Like, did she open the door and then turn around and somehow walk across the balcony and just fall over?
Like, that doesn't make sense. No. She opened the door and somebody else went out with her.
It's like, was she going inside and someone stopped her?
Or did someone take her outside? Right.
And then that was it. And then they didn't close the door.
There's also, like, there's a photo that I found... that is um it's the photo that shows all the different like you know, the screenshot that she had taken of her phone that says like, front door was closed at 1.47.
You know what I mean? Like all that. Yeah.
And on it, it also says that the garage door was opened at 1.39 a.m.
The garage door was closed at 1 40 and then the garage door was opened at 1 40 and then never closed.
That's weird. Like who was in the garage?
And why? And why did the door never close again?
Normally you close your garage when you come back.
It's this is all just so weird. I don't get it.
So when Tamla's family was informed of her death, they immediately were suspicious.
Yeah. Because they were like, what? She went to a sleepover and ended up dead.
Yeah. Goers said they found her bag and her black leather jacket next to the front door where she arrived that night.
And that she was found in a one-piece pajama set with the paw prints on it.
Her dad was like, yeah, it's November. And last night was like 30 degrees.
She would have put her jacket on. She would never be hanging outside without her jacket.
Right. She can barely hang inside without her jacket.
Right. You mentioned in the beginning she did not like the cold weather.
She's from the Caribbean. It's a big inside joke that she wears her jacket inside.
He agreed with police too. He was like, her body is strangely positioned.
That doesn't make sense to me. And the lack of blood at the scene was also another like, what?
Like how are we really pretending that this is okay?
Right. So the next day, autopsy results come in.
Her blood alcohol level was .24, which is three times the legal driving limit, which is .08.
Yep. That's a pretty high alcohol level, but, like, she's in a house.
The tox results showed traces of marijuana.
Mm-hmm. and Xanax, but no other drugs. And it was a very small amount of Xanax, Xanax was not prescribed to her and there was no evidence of it anywhere on her person.
Which is weird. No pill bottles, nothing.
Right. No other pills, not at all. So, probably slipped in her drink.
To me, she was drugged. Especially a small amount.
Right. It seems like it was, like... Yeah, it just doesn't.
And everybody who knows her was like, yeah, no, she did not take Xanax.
That's weird. Her right wrist was broken, severely broken, and there was a one-inch laceration on the inside of her wrist.
Now there was also a laceration on her left forearm, bruises and lacerations on her fingers and shins, severe injuries on her head, neck, and torso. several superficial abrasions one on her forehead one above her left eyelid and on the bridge of her nose her right temple and her chin Okay, no, all of those places are not going to get hit. that intently when you fall so she fell and then she just what like dragged her head all around and like slammed her face she would have had to repetitively fall over and over and over And she also had a fracture of the C2 second vertebrae.
And which is a common injury, I guess, when you like slam your chin into something and like whip it back.
It's a common injury. Mm hmm. Other injuries were lacerations on the right ventricle of her heart, which can happen Oftentimes, it's not like super common, but it's in like car crashes, like a very hard traumatic injury to your chest.
Okay. Now, the medical examiner said that no facial bones were broken.
Which is weird, because you would think that if you slammed your face that hard, you would break your nose.
And there were several spots of bleeding in her cranium.
There was lots of brain bleeding. So the cause of death ended up being multiple blunt force injuries, and they attributed it to a fall from a great height.
But how do you get multiple blunt force injuries from one fall?
And there was nothing in her nasal cavities, nothing in her mouth.
Her mouth wasn't bleeding. No, nothing. So it's like...
Here's what's crazy to me. So the other thing is, sorry to interrupt, your teeth.
Exactly. she was found face down, not face to the side.
And the other thing is, if you're falling, you're automatically going to turn your head to the side.
You're not going to fall and slam your face into the ground No matter what, even if it's from 14 feet above, you're going to turn your head to the side to protect your face.
It's just like a reaction. Yeah. And it's like, so if she didn't do that, so how did she not break her nose, first of all?
And like you said, her teeth. Her teeth.
How was there no bleeding in her mouth? Well, then you think like an injured.
No grass in her mouth. Did you say there was markings on her neck?
No, she fractured a vertebrae. Oh, okay.
She fractured a vertebrae. And there was also, like, lacerations above her eyelid, on her temple, on her chin, on the bridge of her nose.
But it's like she fell in the grass. She didn't fall on, like, gravel and, like... skid her face or something like It was very, very strange.
Yeah. Because they don't add up. It didn't happen that way.
They don't add up. Now, here's the kicker.
No photos were taken during the autopsy.
Why? That's abnormal. That's really abnormal.
That's much more than abnormal. Unheard of.
That literally doesn't happen. No photos were taken.
Not one photo was taken during the autopsy.
And did they give any explanation for why?
No. Oh, okay. Just didn't do it. That's good.
That literally does not happen. Like... What?
You have to take photos during an autopsy.
That's part of the autopsy. Yeah. Nope.
Didn't take them. Just no photos. So we have nothing to look at for those injuries.
Nothing. You just have to be like, well, guess he's telling the truth.
Well, and I mean, because that's part of the reason you take photos during an autopsy is to corroborate your findings.
Right. You say, hey, she has a laceration above her left eyelid.
Here it is. Here's the photo of it. Right.
He's just saying this. We don't know. And now we'll never fucking know.
He's saying that she has a tear in her right ventricle of her heart.
Cool. I guess. All right. I guess we'll just take your word for it.
Well, and it's like, why not take pictures?
Because you're. I mean, the findings show that something else happened.
That's why you don't take photos. But you're saying it anyways in the autopsy, so I don't understand why you're not just taking pictures, too.
Like, you're already saying it anyways. Because he's hoping that...
Nobody's questioning this. She fell from a great height.
Of course she's going to have some bumps and bruises and cuts.
No, not that many. But... So no photos taken.
Statements from all witnesses at the party were not given officially until like a couple of weeks after the death.
Oh. So plenty of time to get your shit together.
And the interviews are shocking. They're ridiculous.
There's many conflicting statements by people at the party.
And the evidence, just everything is conflicting.
Okay. It's everything, nothing makes sense. tons tons of these people all said quote like i said before she was the only smoker over and over and over it's like cool we get it but There were two lighters and there were two kinds of cigarettes on the porch.
So she, I mean... She wanted some variety of that.
It makes no sense. And also, so there's a ton of cigarettes on the porch and all that good stuff.
They never tested any of the cigarettes.
Why? That's the number one thing that you would think you do.
No testing whatsoever. They just took everyone's word that she was the only smoker and never questioned it with actual police work.
They were just like, oh, okay, she was the only smoker.
And they were like, oh, yep, she was the only smoker.
And they were like, cool, cool, cool, cool.
Guess we'll just go with it. Now there's also a lot of sources that say that she did not have her cell phone or her keys.
They took her cell phone and her keys. It's one thing to take keys if you think somebody's drunk.
But why do you take her cell phone? Because it's like she... There's no explanation for that.
None. Now, I want to go into the interviews now because wowzers.
That's insane. Because wowzers. All right, so I'm going to start this off with Madeline Lombardi's interview.
And that's the aunt. Okay. So she's the one that saw... I should have waited 0.5 seconds for you to answer that.
You just love jumping in there. I do. So...
There's nothing too of note in the beginning.
It's just her reiterating the whole like, you know, like I read one piece of it earlier where she looked out, she saw Tamla.
She dropped to her knees. She said a prayer.
Wasted time. She, you know, built a foundation.
She like read a newspaper and then she went and got help.
I almost just said she ricked and mortared because of Rick and Morty.
She ricked and mortared some buildings. ashkel everybody hey yo so what's strange about her interview It's how it comes to kind of a quick end.
So you mean, like, maybe somebody just hit stop on the tape is what you're saying?
No. No? Something much funnier happens and something much stranger happens.
Now... These interviews were done, like I said, a couple weeks after the actual crime.
A lot of them were done at John Myers' home.
Oh, so like you don't have to come downtown?
No, we'll just come to you. Oh, you know, convenience.
So at one point... They're giving Madeline the interview, asking her all this stuff, and all of a sudden in the transcript, Jean walks in to the interview.
Just busts right in. And says, I'm going to start charging y'all rent.
Oh, and Officer Christian says, get out of my head.
What? Which I'm not real sure. I'm like, yeah.
Like, do you mean hair? Like, get out of my hair?
Get out of my head. And then she says, look what I just went and got y'all.
Gift cards. Oh. Uh-huh. Bribing officers, are we?
So then she says, then I was told I shouldn't because it would look bad if I give you something before the case is closed.
Yeah, it does look bad. Many things about that.
Yep, you are straight up bribing them, and it's on transcript now, so, like...
Okay, Jean. But apparently that doesn't matter.
Two, he's in the middle of a fucking interview for a tragic death that occurred at your home.
Two. And three... Why are you so eager for this case to be closed?
Right. You don't know what happened to her either, according to you.
And this is supposed to be your like somewhat friend.
A friend. You invited her. Who died tragically at your home.
Shouldn't you be like, I would like to know what happened to her.
Let's not just close this case. Well, and I would like to know what happened at my home.
Well, and then she says, and it's very typical because I figure all the cops love Dunkin' Donuts, right?
Oh, my God. No, she didn't. And then Officer Christian says, you may have something. which I don't know what that means.
And then she says, do you need me? Now, this was the day of Tamla's funeral, by the way.
She says, do you need me or can I go upstairs and get ready for this funeral?
This funeral. For this funeral. And Officer Christian says, go do your thing.
And she says, okay, perfect. And then he starts the interview by going, so anyway.
This is very, very formal. So she walks into the fucking interview, which is insane to me.
Insane. Insane. With bribed gifts. And walks in and is like, here's some gift cards, officers.
Because I know you like donuts. Like, oh, wow.
It gets worse and worse. She's straight up. is on record bribing the police officers and nobody cares in this case and nobody cares and we're all just gonna be like okay that's funny no that's not funny jean is weird as fuck yeah and not in a good way nope something's off with her And I will say that on record, shit is weird at that house.
I don't know what's going on. I don't know what's going on with her.
Something's weird. Yeah, I agree. I'm not pointing a finger at her.
I'm not because I'm not getting sued by anybody.
I'm not saying anybody did it. I'm just saying Jaune's got some stuff.
And I believe Jaune knows more than she's letting on.
I agree. That's how I feel. That's just how I feel.
So that's a little weird. And then immediately...
They go back into the interview, but now the interview has turned weird and...
The vibe is off. And I think even the officers were like, that was weird.
Why is she trying to bribe us? And in fact, I'm going to go through Jeanne's interview, too, where she is... very much everywhere.
Like scatterbrained? Very scatterbrained.
And at one point the officer is like, yeah, you can't bribe us. are you serious like he doesn't say that but he's like you can't do that we can't accept those gift cards you know that right like Why would you do that?
I mean, at least they didn't accept them because I really thought that they were going to.
Honestly, I think they said on record Yeah, they probably took them.
Like I'm sure maybe they didn't take them, but they wanted to make sure on record that they were like, we can't accept that.
Yeah. Because they were like, oh, shit. This is an offer I can refuse.
Yeah. And I think it only went on for like another couple of minutes, her interview, and then it was cut off.
It was like, all right, well, that was that.
So she really fucked it, which it's like, okay, so you came in and you tried to bribe the officers, you make weird small talk.
We're going to see a couple times, and this is just my, you know, what I'm seeing here.
What you're taking away. jaune looks like she is flirting with especially officer christian quite a bit well to make it like chill there's a few times and i'll show you'll see it when i start reading more things she seems first of all she starts calling him mike Oh, okay.
Which I'm sorry. She's like, can I call you Mike?
I still, I have worked under one. pathologist for how long like close to not 10 years but i mean close maybe almost eight or nine it's gotta be like eight years at this point yeah I still do not call him by his first name.
No, it's rude. And we are together a lot.
Well, we were just raised like that. I call him Dr. Da-da-da.
And it's like, that's exactly his name. But I call him Dr. Blah.
Like, I don't. I know I just feel like I don't want to put him on a podcast but I've never called him his first name No, it's rude.
If somebody has a title, you call them their title.
Yeah. That's like calling your professor, like, Joe.
Like, hey, what's up, Joe? That's the thing.
It's like... No. No. Yeah, in fact, perfect.
I have another, I have a professor who became like my mentor.
Yeah, yep, you do. Still call him Professor Ba Ba Ba.
Yeah. It's weird how Alina has all these death to death above us.
They've got really cool names. But I don't, I just don't, until, I don't know.
It's like a respect thing. I know, and this is in the South, too, so you would think that, like, especially in the South, I feel like things are a little more formal.
And also, this is not, like... Like, this is not... Sure it is.
Let's hang out. Let's be casual time, Jaune.
What's the big deal? Like, this is not...
This is a very huge thing that just happened in your home.
And if you are claiming to know nothing about it, You should be very much treating this whole thing with kid gloves and being like, I'm going to be respectful.
I'm going to be cooperating with everybody.
Yeah. And I'm going to respect the officers, the investigators, the doctors that are all taking care of this.
You don't just start calling them Mike. Like, what?
You guys bros now? Like, that's weird. Well, she thinks that they are.
And it's like, how do you not see how that's coming off too?
Like, how do you not see that you're coming off as very flippant about this?
First of all, you're coming off as you're bribing them for some strange fucking reason.
Because you know what happened at your house, or at least something.
Yeah, and then on top of it, You're sitting there being like, before this case is closed, how the fuck do you know this case is going to be closed?
Mm-hmm. Maybe it's going to be an open case because they're looking for whoever did this.
Why are you assuming it's going to be open shut?
It's so weird. And then should I just get ready for this funeral?
Oh, this funeral? Like, oh, just like, you know, this one about like for this woman that died in my home tragically.
Not even the funeral? This funeral? To me, that immediately came up.
It's like, meh. Like, I don't give a fuck.
Ugh, I have to get ready for this funeral.
Like, appearances. Gotta go. Ugh. I hate having to go to this function.
Like, that's how it comes off to me. No, like, it's like...
I don't understand. It's very strange. Very, very strange.
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The town of Agde in France is famous for sun, sand, sea and sex.
But lately, life on the coast has taken a strange turn.
The town's mayor, a respected pillar of the community, has been arrested for corruption.
His wife claims he's been bewitched by a beautiful clairvoyant.
Then there's the mysterious phone calls that local people have been getting.
I am the Archangel Michael. The whole town has been thrown into chaos.
As the mayor is unable to carry out his duties, I would like to address you all.
Legal proceedings have been initiated. Join me, Anna Richardson, and journalist Leo Schick for The Mystic and the Mayor as we investigate a story of power, corruption, and magic.
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And now we're going to move on to talking about Jaune's interview.
So Jaune's interview has a few strange little... tidbits in it.
I find that so surprising. It's crazy. I'm shocked by that news.
So one of the first things is that She completely contradicts her aunt's version of what happened.
So... Well, her aunt had said two things, didn't she?
No, her aunt said, you know, I woke up around 8.30, or I woke up at 8, I stayed in my bed for a little while.
I got up around 8.30, went upstairs, was making the coffee, was doing the grinds, you know.
Heard someone showering. I looked out the window, I saw...
The pajamas like peeking over the grass.
I said a prayer on my knees. I went straight to Jose and John's room, heard somebody in the shower, went back downstairs. i'm not really sure what she did down there came back upstairs knocked again they woke up right of a dead sleep okay so now what does jean say Now, Jaune says that her aunt always goes outside to make...
To see the weather because she's still adjusting to it.
Adjusting to Georgia weather. So according to her, she went outside, saw Tam, came inside, washed her face, and prayed because I guess she thought she was seeing things and went back out there and saw Tim.
She said she came upstairs and knocked. I didn't hear her the first time.
I heard her the second time. Because I was in the shower, but I'm not going to tell you that.
And it's also like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
She went outside now. She went out twice now?
Yeah. Because originally she didn't go outside at all.
No. She saw her from the window. Like, wait a second.
And now she washed her face. Now she washed her face.
So Officer Christian says, right. And she says, woke up.
And she said, I need Jose. And I could just tell by the tone of her voice and her face, it was bad.
So he pulled on his shorts and he started, cause she's like, by the way.
My 27 year old boyfriend was naked. It's like, OK, it's like we get it.
We get it. pulled on his shorts and he started coming down and he hollered at me, get your phone.
I couldn't even tell you unless the security for the door. if I came out the door or the basement, like it was just a whirlwind.
And then when I got out there, I stayed on the gravel because I didn't because I could see like it's still so surreal. of her she was like that and i handed jose my phone because i had 911 on the phone Handed him my phone and he touched her back, which this isn't true because she was the first one on the phone.
I was literally just going to say that. So already we're going lily-nilly now.
That's a lie. And so he says she says he touched her back because I was like, don't touch her.
And he's like, we have to because he was on the phone.
And he touched her and he said, she's not breathing.
And then he went, I think he touched her on the leg to see if it would bend.
And he said, rigor mortis has already set in.
She's gone. And I think he said that on the phone.
And then I was hysterical. But he didn't say that on the phone. like what first of all you dialed 9-1-1 and you talk to them you talk to them it is there's audio right There's audio of her being the first person on the phone.
And then you handed the phone to him. And then she hands the phone to him while they're already talking.
And he doesn't say she's gone. He says, I'm not completely sure.
He never says she's gone. Also, you walk out there and you say don't touch her?
Yeah, like, isn't that your friend? You have no idea if she's dead or if she's just passed out.
Why wouldn't you touch her? Well, then she says, I stayed on the gravel.
It's like, oh, you didn't run to see if you're... friend or not even like, okay, maybe you weren't like friend friends, but your guest that was at your home, like she's your friend.
No matter what, it's like, you know this woman.
Right. She's a mother of five kids that go to school with your kids.
Like, try to take care of her a little bit.
You liked her enough to have her at your fucking party.
For real. So then it gets even stranger.
Remember when I originally told you that...
When she was found, one of her wrists, her right wrist was above her head and out, and the other one was down by her body.
And the wrist that was up was the one that was broken and dislocated like it had stopped her fall.
Yes. Well, Officer Christian then says, Do you remember, and this had become a point of contention, when you went out there, her arms were by her side?
Both arms? She says both arms were down by her side.
Nope. Wrong. Who moved her fucking arm then?
Who made it look like she stopped her fall?
Which one of you moved her arm to make it look like she fell?
Because do you think that they did move her arm?
I think they moved her arm. That's weird.
I think they moved her arm. So she says both arms were down by her side.
And that's why I know. It's those other two women that are saying it's because they said they spoke to the detectives and her arm was up here in this position to brace itself.
It was not because that image is burned in my head because the best way I could phrase it, it almost looked like she face planted.
Because I'm like, I'd never imagine someone landing with that, like, her toes almost pointed.
That's weird. So now it's like, who moved her arm?
Right. Someone moved her arm. So now I'm like, Jose, did you move her arm?
But then if you couldn't bend her leg, how did you move her arm?
And that's the other thing that I will get to later because that, I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
So rigor mortis has not set in unless you broke it, which I doubt you did.
Well, this is just me asking, if you broke rigor mortis, would you break a bone?
Not necessarily. Okay. But so, so Officer Kristen says, right.
And she says, and her hands perfectly by her side.
Like, in all my stuff, and I'm like, Sean, what are you, man?
What did she say? All my stuff is based on Law and Order and CSI, so it's not a good reference point, but I was just shocked at how she was laying.
Okay, well, that's not a good reference point at all.
You're correct in that. Officer Christian just goes, uh-huh.
He's like, I fucking hate when people bring that up.
Yeah, he's probably like, really now? So then let me look and see what else I have in here.
So this is this part really pissed me off.
So Officer Christian, they mentioned, you know, was she the only one that smoked weed?
Right, and they were like, I've never tried weed.
They were like, I have never done that. So she then, but instead of just saying, because it's like, okay, if none of you smoke weed, that's fine.
No one's... There's no judgment anyway here.
It's not a bad thing. But it's also like if none of you smoke weed, that's fine.
Just be like, yeah, she was the only one.
Right. But it was fine. They're making it a thing.
Well, they make it worse. oh god because now i'm like why are you trying to make her sound worse than she is like what is the one she said she says and this is also she's spreading a rumor so it's like nice she says but if you're getting me on record so at first she says yeah she was the only one smoking weed But if you're getting me on record, when you talk to other people, Diane or whatever, when she spoke with Paula...
This was not said to me, so just so you follow up, she asked Fala, do you know she did coke or anything else?
And Paula said, not that I know of. I don't even know that she was aware that she even did that.
We what? Yeah, she doesn't make any sense.
So Officer Christian goes, okay. Well, they didn't find any coke in her system, so what the fuck does that have to do with anything?
Because she's trying to make her, she's trying to smear her.
Yeah, exactly. So then she says, so that's the only mention I heard of it, but to be honest, that made my head think...
That made my head think. Oftentimes I find things will make my head think. so that made you think is what you're saying it made my head think you know Sounds like something your four-year-olds would say.
I love when my head thinks it's great. Is that unusual for you?
Well, this really made John's head think.
Think what? Because I'm like, well, she drank that much tequila.
And that's a depressant. And pot is a depressant.
But if you did that, you could drink tequila and still be... She always had that much energy.
So I never thought anything of it. So now she's sitting there going- She's saying that she's regularly on coke.
Now she's literally being like, well, she always has so much energy, so maybe she's on coke all the time.
Maybe she just fucking stops at Starbucks every day like everybody else.
Well, and Officer Christian says, yeah. He's like, can you go fuck yourself?
And then she says... And I don't want to speak negative.
And maybe she partied a little too much.
Since when? She has five kids. Before, they had all said that she was saying to them, oh, it's so nice.
Like, please stay up because I don't often get girl time.
I never get to do this. Right. Right. So now all of a sudden she parties a little too much.
Meanwhile, her husband's probably listening to this like, oh, yeah, she really parties with those fucking casseroles.
That she leaves for us. It's real easy to party with five kids.
But I don't know that she did that. But Diane did ask Paula that.
And I don't know anything beyond that. Because Paula got here late.
That was the other one that got here late.
So she's literally like, I don't know. She's like, well, she said that I said that she said that this girl said that this other girl said that she said that we said.
It's high school shit that she's being like.
Well, Paula told Diane that she did this and then Diane told Stacey this and I feel like Stacey would tell me the truth.
It's literally like, you know, Stacey was late.
So it's like, I don't even know if that's credible.
So I don't even know. Now, I'm going to post the transcripts for all these interviews in our show notes so you guys can take a look at all of the stuff in it because it's just so much to read.
I mean, I was spending like hours literally.
Helena has like certain areas like highlighted and they were scattered on the couch when I came over.
I was like, are you good? Are you okay? my hair's like out to here and I'm just like there's like crumpled up notes in the trash can I'm like bloodshot eyes I'm like I can't handle this case But there's like 10 interviews and they're like 30 to 40 pages each.
Well, they probably just don't make any sense.
And it's just insanity. So then we get to the parts where...
First, Jaune is like acting like these officers are just her bros.
There's... We're just hanging out talking.
Getting them some Dunk's gift cards. Just hanging out.
At one point, she'll be like, oh, and I have a picture of this from that night.
Because they took a lot of pictures of the night of the party.
Yeah. Everywhere. Everywhere. And she'll be like, oh, I took a picture of this.
And they're like, oh, can you send that to us?
Like, we need these pictures. Right. And she'll be like, okay, cool.
What's your phone number? I don't have it saved in here.
Like, hold on. Just give it to me one more time.
I'm just going to send it to you. Like, she's very flirty. right it's like i'm not giving you my number so that we can like late night chat it seems like i'm giving you my number so that you can text me evidence at one point she literally is like She says, I think I have you saved, but I don't have you saved.
And then at one point she's like, look, you're saved.
And he's like, cool, can you send me that evidence for this fucking homicide I'm investigating?
I'm like... Sim it down. She's like, I'm going to FaceTime you later.
What's your bitmoji look like? The amount of like thirstiness that is coming from this woman with these cops.
She's like, wait, can you actually pose so I can set you a contact picture?
Right? I waited for that. Are you good, sis?
If I saw that happen in this transcript, I would have been like, yeah, that makes sense.
And then... because again interviews like this with the police are supposed to be like fairly professional and serious.
And you're not supposed to have like outside people coming into them.
You're not supposed to be talking to anyone on the phone while this is happening.
No one outside of the interview should be hearing the interview.
You don't say. Now, at one point, while she's doing this whole, like, okay, yeah, totally, I'll send this to you.
Here, look, you're saved. Like, ha ha ha.
She says, so at one point she says, because now I've got you saved.
And then she says, hold on two seconds. And Officer Kristen's like, sure.
So she's on her phone. Doing what? Talks to somebody on her phone.
And this is what she says. Quote, um, can you go outside and wait for baby mama and get my kids belongings from her so she doesn't come in the house?
She's on her way. That's my ex-husband's baby mama.
What? What? What? I, like, I'm Can you go outside and wait for baby mama?
Like you're in the middle of talking about your friend who tragically died and they're trying to find out what happened to her.
Well, and then you're being extremely rude about this other woman, so you just clearly suck as a person.
Like, go wait for baby mama? I don't want baby mama inside.
What? And then it's like, you're in an interview!
You can't have What's happening in an interview?
She's yucky. Like, what? I just... I cannot... I mean, I don't know, Jeanne, but from what I've seen...
John and I would not be friends. We would not be getting along.
I don't like John. I don't like what I don't like our whole situation.
I don't like how she talks. i don't like how she i don't like how she bribes police i don't like how she presents herself and maybe this is not who jean is but damn jean you better get a pr person because You coming off real bad.
Real bad, Sean. So in the beginning of the whole thing, The cops do say, they say, Jean, of course, we're here to talk about the incident that took place Saturday night, Sunday morning with your friend, Tam.
Let's address one thing real quick before we get there.
You came into the room when we were talking with Madeline.
You can't do that. And we appreciate the fact that you were going to get us a gift card, but we cannot accept them.
And it would just make things look weird if we did.
Yeah. Which it's like, sure it would. And she probably was like, oh, Mark.
It's even weirder that you guys are talking about it like this.
Like it's. This whole thing is weird. And the fact that you're having to sit there going, it would make it look weird.
Why would it make it look weird, officer?
Well, it just made it weird that you did that.
The whole thing is weird. It's weird she felt confident doing that for you.
Right. And it's weird. This whole thing is weird.
Well, it's weird that you didn't say that to her right away.
Yeah. It's just very, I think it's like they thought about it or someone told them and was like, yeah, you better make that right.
You better go on record real quick and say you didn't take that and buy a latte.
And she says, I understand what you're saying.
And he said, which... It's like, okay, I get it.
A little strange wording. It's like before... And I might be looking too far into this when...
I totally could be. To me it just seems like you would say like, I totally understand.
That makes so much sense. Like I wasn't thinking.
She's like, I get what you're saying because what you're really saying is like, thanks for the gift card.
But like on record, I have to be like, I didn't take it.
It's literally like, I understand what you are saying.
Yeah. It's like when somebody's like, don't mention that that happened.
And you're like, what happened? Yeah, exactly.
And And he says, thank you for the thought, but we cannot accept.
And she says, my kids will take them. Okay.
And it's like, okay, Sean. Make sure baby mama doesn't get them.
Make sure baby mama doesn't get them. You fucked up individual.
So again, I'm going to post these in the show notes so you can read the rest of the little tidbits in here.
But basically, Jaune's is just a mess of contradictions to the first stories that everyone told, including Madeline's.
Yeah. It's also a contradiction to her own story saying that she just handed the phone to Jose when she in fact talked to the 911 operator and we have audio of it.
Basically, she's lying through her teeth.
There's also that weird flirty energy which...
This is just me. That's what I'm perceiving it to look like.
To me, it looks like she's being very inappropriate with these officers.
I agree. And there's a murder investigation.
Like I won't even like I'm using the word flirty to me.
It looks flirty. It's definitely inappropriate.
Yes. No matter what this behavior. in this situation is inappropriate.
Yeah. And people are crossing lines. People are not being professional.
There is not care being taken in this case to keep things... where they should be strictly online i mean if this is how they're handling the interviews and letting people pop in pop out bring in gift cards chat about whatever sit there and chat about oh you're saved why are you why are you having someone interviews in the kitchen and calling someone else in the middle of it right I mean, this is very unprofessional, very flimflammy.
It's not at all seeming like they're taking this seriously.
And it's making me say, okay, so what happened to that crime scene?
Yeah, seriously. That crime scene definitely wasn't taken seriously.
If you can't even handle the interviews that are on record.
I mean, I have transcripts of you guys being douche nozzles.
It's like, I can't imagine how you handled the crime scene.
Even the autopsy wasn't handled properly.
Remember, you said there was no pictures taken.
Not handled properly is a very nice way of putting it.
To not take photos during a fucking autopsy is...
My head exploded. I'm just at a loss for that.
Okay, so I need to know more. At a loss.
What else? So now let's head over to Jose Barrera's interview.
Okay. So Jose also had some things to say about how Tam was found.
Okay. Which are very contradictory to the crime scene. that was i believe i have not seen photos of the crime scene i probably didn't even taken who knows if they even took them but i'm assuming they did i would assume they take photos of an autopsy too so like here i am like with egg on my face you know what they say about assuming it's definitely making an ass of me here because i'm assuming they're doing oh i don't know police work right but I guess I'm just crazy.
But so I would, I have not seen photos of the scene.
I have seen a sketch that they did at the scene of what they were looking at.
And in that sketch there is a stick figure with one hand above her head.
Okay. And one by her side. And everything else in all the reports.
Done at that scene, that is how she is described.
Now, Officer Christian says to Jose, Barrera, somebody moved her arm because you told me previously that both arms were like by her side.
So Jose says, correct. And he says, do you know who moved her arm?
And Jose says, I have no clue. When I was on the phone with 911 and I checked, I'd gone back inside the house.
And I stayed on the phone with them until Corey Miller got there, who was the supervisor, the law enforcement supervisor.
Okay. I walked him through out to the back deck and obviously showed him what we saw and he told me to stay upstairs like up on the back deck and that's the last time I ever saw her.
So according to Jose, he's saying again, her hands were both by her sides.
No one's fessing up to moving her arm, but that's how she was found.
Who moved her arm? And also now I'm like, okay. if you're all saying you didn't move her arm does she move her fucking alive and did she move her arm up to try to maybe get up i guess but then i look at If we're talking about stiff legs and I couldn't bend her knee...
She wouldn't have been able to move her arm.
No, she was dead. She was in some form or form.
And it's like, so who moved her fucking arm?
What if you moved her arm? I think I have an idea, but I'm not going to say it just because, like, you know, you've got to be careful.
And honestly, this whole party is very Sue happy, so I'm going to stay.
Somebody should sue this whole fucking party.
I'm going to stay real far away from being sued by all these random football moms.
I can't. The fact that... I just, I don't even, I don't even want to.
So, but... The fact of the matter is here... The arm was moved.
Someone moved her arm. That's just fact.
Well, and if Jose says that he went in to go get the... investigator then only jean and madeline would have madeline were out there well who knows at this point if some of the other people had shown up that they called back And then it's like, did the investigators move her arm?
Did someone move her arm to make it look like she fell more?
Like to make it more look like she... Whoops, she fell.
See, she put her arm out to try to stop her.
I don't know. I mean, maybe. Because to me, the arms by the side indicate to me that she was thrown over that balcony, unconscious or dead. and made to look like she fell.
Right. If your arm is above your head and broken, It makes it look like you were alive and conscious and fell whoopsie daisy and you put your arm out to try to stop you.
But it's also weird to me that it would only be one arm because you would think that you'd have both at least. least one of them a little more raised what would happen was probably in the air you're gonna make some motion to turn Yeah.
To try to like, you know, try to alleviate some of whatever is coming to you.
And so you're probably going to land harder on one side and you're going to put that arm out to try to stop yourself.
Yeah. The other arm could have just. flop to our side.
But the reality of the situation here is if these people are saying that she was found with both hands at her sides to me, that indicates that she was thrown over that balcony, either unconscious or dead.
Right. And that somebody tried to make it look like she was not unconscious or dead and that she fell.
I agree. And this whole thing where I mentioned earlier that they're talking about how maybe she tripped over that little like lip and the thing and she just fell face down because she had like some kind of seizure or something.
Yeah. You're not going to break your wrist and dislocate it by falling boop like right there.
Didn't you have like a severed vertebrae or a fractured vertebrae?
Yes. C2, broken C2 vertebrae. Yeah, you wouldn't get that.
You don't get that from tripping. I mean, you...
Because of the brunt force on her chin, maybe.
Hitting your chin, I guess, if you really want dead weight, I guess, and a tall person, maybe.
That would work. I'm not positive. I mean, that's a very... That's a lot of force, I would think.
It's a lot of force to put on there. And the other part of that is...
If you are falling because you're having a seizure or some kind of medical situation, you're not going to put your hands out.
Right, because you don't know. So why is that arm like that?
Because somebody moved it. Because someone is making it look like she fell and was alive or conscious when she did.
And in reality, she was not. She did not hit that to me.
She didn't hit that lawn conscious. I agree.
Or alive. No. It's just not, I don't see it.
It's not the case. I think somebody, and now I'm starting to sit there and go.
Well, wait, if all of you, I mean, who knows if it was somebody at the party who moved the arm and they're all just being like, I don't know.
Or maybe it was an investigator. Or was it the police trying to be like, let's just close this shit.
Mm hmm. where is somebody looking at this and being like let's just make sure this case gets closed because to me not taking photos at the autopsy, all that shit, that to me looks like someone's trying to make it so this case gets closed real fast.
Real fast. Real fast. So that would be an easy way to do it.
Put her hand above her head. Oops, she fell.
Oops, she fell. See, she tried to stop herself.
Case closed. Boop, boop. Bing bing boom.
So then... We had mentioned before that, you know, the whole thing was that Jose and Jean were woken out of dead sleep To come outside and whoops, there's Tim.
And it's like, who is showering? So, and then we heard earlier, Jose mentioned that he was cleaning up.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like when were you cleaning up?
Right. Like what? Were you cleaning up while you were waiting for someone to come while somebody lay dead in your backyard?
I doubt. up a murder scene well and so officer christian says um what else did you do that morning I think we talked about some cigarettes.
And Jose says, right. So when I initially went out there to see what was going on, and there was a loose cigarette and a lighter laying on the back deck.
And being as OCD as I am, I walked out there, it was just kind of in my path, the door to the reeling when I looked out and I just, I mean, Like if I'm coming through the doorway and we're in here, like it would be like a cigarette and a lighter laying right there.
What? And Officer Christian's like, uh-huh.
He's like, okay, you like to be organized.
He says, I mean, I walked up, sat it on the fire pit, and just kept walking.
And so Officer Kristen says, okay, so you had actually did that before you saw Tam?
And he says, correct. And officer Christian says, before you saw Tamela or anything, like you, you cleaned a cigarette quickly.
Yeah. And Jose says, oh, yeah, I wouldn't have moved anything if I knew I was about what I was about to walk up on.
Or would you have? Because you knew what you were going to walk in on.
So wait, like, like what? So it's like, okay, so you're telling me. that Madeline, first of all, woke you out of a dead sleep, which I don't believe.
Someone was awake in that room. And you had already claimed that you were cleaning up that morning, so like, Right.
But now you're telling me that you when she came into your room and said your friend from the islands is laying face down in the backyard and not moving.
Yeah. You're casually walking out onto the deck to look and you're like, oh, I
I'm OCD, which I like how he's just like casually like, you know, my OCD.
And it's like, you don't know what fucking OCD is.
Exactly. That's not what OCD is. It's not at all what that is.
That's just you being ridiculous. Exactly.
And it's like, I love that. My OCD. Because you picked something up off the floor that's not OCD.
How compulsive of you. Jesus. So he's like, I just walked out and I saw a lighter and a cigarette and I moved it out of my way.
You know those obsessive compulsions I have for cleaning up cigarettes.
Before I decided to look and see... The thing, the person who was lying not moving in my backyard.
He's like, I mean, Madeline did seem real upset, but that cigarette was in my way.
But that cigarette and that lighter, man, it was bumming me out where it was sitting.
Yeah. It's just too much. It's too much for me.
In this one, and again, I'm going to post this one too. it's just him going through everything but it's again more contradictions it's more contradictions it's more things that don't make sense it's more stories being changed as more things come out or as people are talking here.
Well, that's the number one sign that something has gone very, very wrong is that you're changing your story.
Yeah, there's just... It's just too much for me.
So the last person to supposedly talk to to Tamela, was Bridget.
Right, because her husband had picked her up in the morning.
Exactly. At 147, I believe, 145, 147 a.m.
Her husband went to pick her up. That was when Tamela was apparently having a bowl of gumbo and was like one of the last ones awake.
And she, you know, they were talking. She walked her to the door.
Apparently she gave Bridget a big hug and a kiss on the cheek, according to her, and was like, you're really cute. really great woman, and, like, you're awesome.
Like, I'm glad we met. That's so sweet. Because, you know, Tamla was such a bad person, obviously.
Yeah. Yeah, obviously. It's very clear that she's just such a partier.
She seemed like so warm and sweet. She just seemed sweet and she's eating a bowl of gumbo.
And so Bridget said, you know, she said goodbye.
She told her, get your ass back in there and eat your bowl of gumbo.
And that was the last time she saw from her.
Well, Bridget's. Oh, come on. Do we have one person?
Bridget's interview. And this is the last interview I'll like talk about because the other ones are just whatever.
It's weird. She's just all over the place.
Well, that seems to be a running theme. Like she's all over the place.
Let me just read you a couple of things that she says when they ask her a very simple question.
Well, the other thing is, you have to remember, most of these women were drunk.
Oh, yeah. They were at least drinking. Right.
I mean... I think it's just the way she answers these questions that you're just like, are you okay, sir?
Like, what's going on? So one of the things that Bridget really wants us all to know over and over and over again is she is the mother hen of this group of women.
Okay, mom. Don't you forget it because she's going to tell you every other line.
Officer, just... I'm the mother hen. I don't know if you know this, but I'm the mother hen.
I take care of every... I'm the mother hen.
I don't get into any trouble because I'm the mother... fucking hen like she is literally like god i'm thinking of that kesha song i'm the motherfucking but she's like That's Bridget.
Oh, God. She's going to let you know that she is responsible. she's always working she would never be caught up in a murder scene she would never do anything I'm a mom and I'm and a head I am not I'm not gonna accuse anyone of anything I'm just saying Bridget Calm down.
She be mommin'. Calm down. Bridget be momhennin'.
So, in one point, she's talking about, you know...
She's talking about the alcohol and how she has a very serious view on how much alcohol was happening here.
And she's very like, you know... I don't drink a lot of alcohol because I'm the mother hen.
So she says... Um, you know, God forbid, you know, women can put away, you know, that alcohol and you know, some people, they put away the wine and everything.
I'm kind of your mother hen whenever I'm at a party.
And my very first priority is children. Granted, there were no children at this time.
And she says that. That's the quote. She's like, you know, my first priority was the kids that were not there.
Like, what? And you can tell the officer's like, uh-huh.
Okay. Because she's literally like... My first priority here is the kids that were not in attendance.
I realized there were no kids here this time, but I was all about the kids.
He's like, okay. And he goes, uh-huh. And she says.
He's like, do you need some blue? for that picture that you're trying to paint me?
Like, you okay? And she says, but for the weekend before this, there was kids there.
He's like, yeah, we're not talking about that weekend, actually.
No question is pertaining to this information.
He literally asked, like... So did she drink tequila?
And she's like, yeah. Well, I'm gonna tell you about women and alcohol.
And it's like, and last weekend. And then let me go to last weekend.
And he's like, what now? He's like, I literally don't give a single shit about last weekend.
Now, the week before this was a Halloween party they had at John's house where the kids all like.
But was Tamela there? Tamela was there with her family.
Oh, my God. The weekend before. Exactly.
Exactly. And so they were there. They had like a nice time.
Everything was good. So she says, but the weekend before there was, um...
I've been a nanny for nine years and just not with my, just not with my own kids.
Right, because you don't nanny your own children.
You parent your own kids. Correct. So Officer Christian says, right.
And she says... He's probably like, I'm not following.
He's like, I gotta go. So she says, other people's children.
Completely trust me. And I'm very adamant about watching what's going on, you know?
And it's like, stop flipping your head around.
You're going to knock your head into the damn wall.
I'm not doing any ER things for you. Stop being stupid.
What? What? He's like, so what happened last weekend?
I'm a mother hen, but I don't fucking dabble in those ER things.
His response... Now, he just asked her... was there tequila?
And he just goes, right. And she says, I'd be like, can we answer the question I just fucking asked you?
And she says, and I think that was one of the things that Tam liked so much about me.
Even though I had a couple of drinks, I still kept my faculties about me.
She says that a lot, too. Her faculties were in fucking check.
I've never even heard anybody say that before.
She still kept her faculties about me. You know, if a child went missing, then I'm like, huh, I saw that kid recently.
Where's he at? It's just inbred. What the fuck is she talking about?
It's just inbred? And then she goes, so they were drinking.
Wow, that was a really fucking long way to get to that answer.
Yeah, like they were literally like, so was there drinking at this house?
She's like, well, I don't do the ER shit.
And the pumpkin party was great. And the tequila, you know, and like Tam really loved me.
And, you know, I'm not going to mother hen, mother hen, mother hen.
But yes. It's like, was there drinking there?
And she's like, well, I'm a mother hen. I don't do that shit.
I take care of everybody. always on my shit I'm always looking out for the kids I know there wasn't kids there that night but there was kids there the night before because the weekend before there was a Halloween party and there were kids there I don't nanny my own kids because i have kids but every other kid trusts me implicitly and that night i had my faculties about me because if a kid went missing that wasn't there because there was no kids there at that party that night But if a kid went missing, I would be like, I saw that kid recently.
Where is that kid? It's just inbred in me.
Yeah, they were drinking that night. Because I'm a mother hen and I've got faculties.
He was like, I need a break. And his response is, yeah.
Right. Right. Right. Like, what? Yeah. So she and she keeps saying, I was very coherent.
I'm very coherent. And then she says, in case of emergency, I'm always coherent.
I've always got my faculties about me. What it looks to me is that...
Bridget is very stressed all the time, and she's always like, a fucking emergency is afoot at all times, and I need to have my faculties about me.
Okay. In fact... So after she says all that, he says, right.
And she says, so I mean... It still kept me coherent for in case of an emergency, if something happens, which it did.
Also to me, I'm like, what? Calm down on the emergency talk for that night because you're making it look like, well, just in case.
Just in case an emergency happened. I was all about it.
Because I was really prepared for there to be an emergency because something was happening. there was an emergency that happened so like maybe calm down about that like maybe stop making it seem like you knew an emergency was happening like i calm down because you're making yourself look bad here.
And he just says, sure. And she says, I got my faculties about me.
No, shut the fuck up. She literally says it again.
Oh my God. And he goes, I need to see a picture of Bridget.
And he's like, uh-huh. He's like, you mentioned that.
And then she says, I'm a protective person.
I don't care about a whole lot of people, but the ones I care about, I want to take good care of.
Okay. And he's like, uh-huh. And she goes, that was the second time that I've met Tam.
The first time was the weekend before for the pumpkin carving.
You remember that. I do with the children and your faculties.
Okay. And she goes, her kids thought it was awesome because I got to use power tools.
I got a sawzall. Shut the fuck up. Well, and again.
He asked her, were they drinking that night?
This is still that question. Oh, he hasn't even asked another question.
He has not asked another question yet. This is still her talking about, were they drinking that night?
Now, her last thing was, Tam's kids thought I was awesome because I used to sawzall.
And he goes, yeah. And she goes, go in on top with that salzol and get that lid off.
Then stick the thing in with the drill and it goes and all the guts, you know.
And he goes, yeah. And she goes, so it's super easy for them to cut them out or scoop them out.
It's all about efficiency. And I like power tools, so I'm...
You know, they all thought that I was just like the cat's meow because I would go out there and do these things, but kids have been my life.
And Tim was very appreciative. I can't tell you how many times that woman grabbed me and goes, I love you.
You're like incredible. Can we take you home for a while?
Because I'm a neat freak. That is a straight quote.
That's a straight quote. If you guys had just seen Elena do that.
She still goes. He says, yeah. He says, yeah, to that.
And she says, I mean, I'm OCD. I'm a super meat freak.
Oh, we got another one. We got another one.
I don't like to leave anybody's house in a mess.
I will not leave till I have swept that floor up.
And he just goes, uh-huh. Uh-huh. And she says, make sure the dishes are in.
I'm that perfect. Friend. I mean, I'm not boasting or anything, but I'm that perfect friend.
Like, my stomach. Like, yo. Bridget. I'm literally going to get the hiccups.
Are you good? Bridget popped about five Adderalls before this fucking interview.
All of those are one, direct quotes, and two... purely off of the question was there drinking that night I can't stop.
That is how far. I would never give her a power tool.
I would never give her a power tool. I want to give her, like, a weighted blanket.
She needs to... Oh my god. And that's really all I'll read for Bridget.
No, read more. I think we should have like a Patreon bonus episode.
Just read Bridget's interview. I do the dishes.
I do the dishes. I'm the perfect friend.
Not that I'm boasting. Not that I'm boasting, but I'm that perfect friend.
It's like, whoa. Okay. So not a lot of information comes out of her interview.
No. A lot of information comes out of it, but nothing you can use.
And how many questions did they get to ask her?
Like two? I think they asked her like a total of four questions in the page.
I think it's like 45 pages long. Wow. But I also thought Bridget's interview would kind of bring everybody a little levity here because this is a very hard subject.
Bridget's interview was kind of a fun. Yeah, we need it.
It was a palate cleanser. It's a very nice palate cleanser.
It's a departure from the really heavy shit that's going on.
I wish that had been a video because had you seen Elena's face and movements and just overall performance of Bridget's interview, wow.
For what I wrote in my notes for Bridget, it's just Bridget is strange as fuck.
That's all I gotta say. I mean, like, do you, Bridget?
Maybe Bridget, Bridget's just Bridget. That's just who she is as a person.
She's not close to a lot of people, remember?
She told us that when they asked her, did anybody drink?
She told us she's not close to a lot of people, but the people she's close to, she takes care of, motherfuckers.
You know, it sounds like... You know what?
I don't even know what it sounds like. Maybe that's just who Bridget is, but it's also maybe Bridget was very nervous in that interview and that's how she reacts.
Bridget was hopped up on something for that interview.
She was having a lot of moments. Those are the interviews that I just wanted to touch upon.
I'm going to post the transcripts in our show notes so you can read them for yourself because hoo boy.
And now we'll reel it back in. We'll reel it back in now.
One of the main things that was a huge issue with this case... is there was no media coverage of it.
Well, none. I want to say why, but, you know.
It's no media coverage until about mid-December.
And that's when Tamla's best friend, Michelle Graves, was like, uh, you guys botched this shit.
She was like, uh, no. And this was in October, yeah?
Yeah, this happened in October. So mid-December, Michelle Graves was like, What the fuck?
Hi, are we going to hear about that crazy, essentially homicide that happened?
Because the case was just closed. right that was it just closed and michelle was still very outspoken she still is to this day like go michelle she was very outspoken about the fact that she was like you know what All of these people at the party were giving all Tamla's friends and family very conflicting and ever-changing stories about what happened.
Well, they were also giving police ever-changing conflicting stories.
And that's the thing. Like one, you know, and according to everybody at the party, according to like Jose and, jean and maybe bridget i don't know i don't know what bridget said that was valuable i have not looked up more bridget But they all say that the reason that Michelle is seeing it like, you know, the stories keep changing about what could have happened was because They keep saying that, you know, initially we didn't know what happened and we were told she probably fell.
So we just told you guys, you know, she fell from the balcony.
But then when we learn more stuff... we changed our story and it's like, No.
You don't change your story, though. You just say what happened that day from your point of view.
Yeah, and it's also like, this isn't a story.
None of you know what happened. No one knows what happened.
We're supposed to know. Somebody does. And it's like, so you're sitting there changing stories, but you don't know what happened.
So like, why... You're just changing your tail to fit to the events.
You're talking to each other. You're hearing, you're talking to each other.
You're seeing what makes the most sense. and you're sticking to that one until that one doesn't make sense and then you're going to another one.
Right. At least that's what it looks like.
So then court records show that a temporary protective order was put by Jean against Michelle.
And it was dismissed. Because it's like, really?
And this was in November. So the month after Kamala passed away.
Jean tried to get a protective order against Michelle and it was dismissed.
Because they were like, yeah, no. Yeah. And Michelle and Tamla's family and friends think that that was an intimidation tactic to be like, you stop talking.
Because this is what we're gonna do. That's fucked up.
Because she was also sent a cease and desist to stop talking.
They wanted her to stop questioning things.
And that's what this was. Yeah, that's fucked up.
To me, it looks like intimidation to be like, you keep talking, we're going to keep doing this.
That's what it looks like to me. Again...
I'm not accusing anybody because don't sue me, motherfuckers.
But I'm just saying it doesn't look good.
No, it definitely doesn't look good. It looks like intimidation to me.
That's just what it looks like. uh so jose barrera now remember he worked for the county yeah in the courts he works in law enforcement he was placed on administrative leave from his job on December 17th, 2018.
So not very long after this. He was put on administrative leave for, quote, investigation pertaining to you using your position to act access confidential files on a current investigation surrounding a death in which you were a witness.
Okay, so what that means is that he was at his work using his fucking... like, law capabilities to look at documents that involved him.
Oh, yeah. Well, two days later on December 20th, he was fired.
Oh, shit. Based on, quote, loss of confidence in the department.
So the department was like, we've lost confidence in your ability to do your job correctly.
Because you're scheming on the low. He illegally accessed confidential files relating to the death of Tamla Horsford.
Shocking. On November 7th, days after she had died, he went into her incident report file.
November 7th, days after he accessed her incident report file.
Now, was he able to change anything or could he just look at this?
No, but he was just looking at this information.
And to me, this looks... really guilty yeah because it's like sure we can say curiosity maybe he just wanted to see what was happening but there's the other side of the coin where you can say were you trying to see what they were what they have against you so that you could change your story to better fit what they were thinking was happening.
Right. And then he also looked into it again on November 20th.
And a few days later, he accessed the file That was about the restraining order that Jean had tried to take out on Michelle.
Wow. So no matter what he was doing, whether it was curiosity or just poor judgment, It was bad.
You would think that he would know that.
Yeah, you can't use your power that way.
Right. You can't use your power just to look into shit.
And especially. That you're involved in.
An investigation where you are a witness.
Right. At your girlfriend's house. Which is why he was fired.
Good. Bye. Before this, Jose Barrera had worked as a probation officer, like I said, in Hall County from March to November of 2017.
Mm hmm. He also worked as an officer with the Cumming Field Office of the Department of Community Supervision.
Why didn't he work at these places anymore?
Why was he working at the courts now? He probably got fired.
He was fired? Mm-hmm. From these two places initially, in October 2016, he was fired from the Cumming Field Office of the Department of Community Supervision.
He said it was a disagreement over a relationship with a coworker, but strange that this dude can't hold down a job in law enforcement when you can basically do anything and keep a job in law enforcement, as I think we have all seen.
Have you ever heard of the LAPD? Yeah, so it's like...
Ever heard of him? It's real hard to get fired from a job in law enforcement and this dude has been fired twice.
Yeah. So only a month later, this case was closed.
Accident. That's it. Nope. Wrong. Oops, that sucks.
So here's what's wrong. We're just going to go over a couple of things just to end this out.
There's a lot wrong. Yeah. The video. So like I said.
Jose said, we have a video camera on that deck.
It will capture everything. And she said that too, Jaune.
Yep. They were both like, we can do this.
They implicitly said that they have it. when they when you look at the photo of the law so they have a photo um that's like part of the investigation It's a photo of a screen that shows all the logged videos for that particular video camera.
Yeah. And there are no videos for the day of or the days surrounding the incident.
Then there are videos for every other day.
Oh, that's so coincidental. Yeah. So it's like, huh.
Weird that just no videos for that. Weird that that just like malfunctioned like that.
So weird. and so there's also an email and there's a picture of this email uh to officer christian Here's your Dunkin' Donuts gift card.
From Jean. Or Jean. Sorry. Jean. Jean. Jean.
From Jean, who refers to him as Mike in the email.
She's like, Hey, Mike. Like, what up? BTW still added my contacts.
And she says, so weird. I must have deleted the video from that day. like you wouldn't think twice about that.
So... What? Like, I like accidentally deleted the video of that day that somebody died on my property.
So weird. Weird. Like, what? She just says it like, oh, I must have deleted it.
Whoops. And then she says, I'm not tech savvy, so I don't know if we can get it back.
But like, here's my password and my username for my account.
See, look how helpful I am. And that's the thing.
It's like. They are very good at seeming helpful, but not being helpful at all. but deleting prominent evidence.
To a lot of people, you'd be like, well, they gave the password and the username to go look at the account.
Yeah, after they deleted evidence. After they deleted the video.
Like that's not helpful. It's like, come on.
But also I am a big believer that nothing is gone forever.
I feel like it's somewhere. Where's the video?
It's gotta be somewhere. Let's go to the cloud.
Well, and then when they had witnesses on the stand telling their stories, like giving their statements, one witness from the party used the phrase, Well we left before it went down.
What went down? Went down? Yeah that's a real poor choice of words by the way.
Went down? What? If I had no fucking clue what happened to this woman, I'd be like, well, we left before this tragedy occurred.
Whatever occurred, we left before it happened.
Yeah. We left before it went down? That sounds like a fight.
That sounds like they were planning something and we left before that went down.
Yeah. Yup. That's exactly what that sounds like.
And then, of course, there's the arms, which we've talked about at length.
That, to me, is just not okay. And then let's get quickly to the rigor mortis.
Okay, yeah, I knew you were going to say something about that.
So Jose said he couldn't bend her leg. She was totally stiff.
Right. That's what he said. Well, it was cold that evening and it was in November.
Temperature affects rigor mortis. And it slows it down.
Oh, it does? Yes. Heat will speed it up.
Cold slows the onset. That's so interesting.
You would think in your mind, if you didn't know anything like me, that it would be the opposite.
Because it kind of preserves you a little more.
So it slows... I guess that does make sense.
Which slows all the processes of death. Okay.
Now, if they couldn't move her leg, then she was in somewhere between moderate to complete rigor. if they couldn't move it or bend it.
But it couldn't be complete rigor because initially they said they found her with her arms by her sides, But when she was discovered by investigators, her arm was up.
That crime scene sketch shows that her broken wrist arm was pointed up and away from her body.
So someone moved her, and I doubt they broke rigor to do so.
It's a possibility, but probably not. So I'm going to go with moderate to advanced rigor mortis stage, which is where she was found in.
Somewhere within eight hours is when the body is still able to be manipulated with at least some force.
Yeah. Right. Mm-hmm. Right. I would say she's obviously within that because if she was last seen between 1, 1.30, somewhere in there, maybe even 2... but claiming to be noted as going to the porch with that app. around 1.50 AM and found as early as 8.30, that's only six to 6.5 hours.
So now the thing is, again, rigor slows in cold temps and it was freezing that evening.
So she wouldn't have been in advance. So in cold temps, it can take between three to six hours for it to appear. for it to appear not even in the advanced mode and that's just beginning to appear So, that would put us at a very minimal rigor stage by the time she was found, which makes the assertion that she was totally stiff and unbendable not probable.
And not likely. And the fact that her arm was moved above her head after that is even more concerning to me.
Right. To me, she died earlier. Way earlier.
She died earlier than that. 1.30, 2 o'clock hour.
I think she was either unconscious or died before that.
Which means that Bridget probably was there.
Uh-huh. And that's why Bridget was so nervous in her fucking interview. you exactly because now we're putting it more close to you know seven eight hours if we're moving it a little earlier which is putting her more in that rigor stage where you can't bend her leg Yeah.
Because again, it slows it down. So we need a few extra hours on there to get to that stage.
And we don't have those hours in there. Or who knows if he even tried to move her leg.
You don't even know that. We have no idea.
So it's like maybe he just said he did that to be like, yeah, she's been dead out here for a while.
Like, must have happened last night. Yeah, like, can't move her leg.
Now, there was a second independent autopsy, and that one, according to her father, shows that some of her injuries were inflicted post-mortem.
Oh. Which to me is a toss off the deck. Right.
To make it look like she fell and she got some of those injuries when she hit the ground.
Were pictures taken during that one? I don't know if they were.
I'm assuming they were. But I think because...
Now, I mean, the good news is now this case has been reopened.
Good. And there was again, no blood that pooled around any of her injuries on the ground.
Because her blood flow already stopped when she had been tossed over.
And apparently there was blood on her sleeve, but none of it on the ground or anywhere, so it either just stopped bleeding...
When she like that, it didn't happen. Right.
It must have happened before she was hitting the ground.
Right. Which is like, where did she start bleeding before she hit the ground?
Well, she had that laceration on her wrist, which sleeve wrist.
And she had blood all over. She had lacerations on her face and shit.
Right. Like, where's the blood? Well, he was cleaning that morning.
This is awesome. So June 5th, 2020. So very recently.
Oh, that was literally like a few weeks ago.
A couple weeks ago. The family lawyer, Tamla's family lawyer, Ralph Fernandez, dropped a bomb of a letter.
Let me hear it. He dropped it publicly. I won't read the whole thing.
I'm just going to read the really awesome parts.
So he wrote this to Tamla's family. Okay.
And he was basically telling them, like, fuck this, homicide happened.
Like, he's like... Clearly. So he says...
The review reflects that a homicide is a strong possibility.
Witness statements are in conflict. a potential subject handled the body as well as the evidence prior to the law enforcement arrival, Evidence was disposed of and no inquiry followed.
The scene was not preserved. Evidence was inappropriately handled.
The investigation was compromised by unauthorized access and disclosure to potential targets and witnesses.
A remarkable fact is that there were no photographs taken during the autopsy of Tamla's body.
This had to have been done at someone's directive because such a practice is unheard of.
Oh. So he is saying exactly what I'm saying, that someone intentionally said, do not take fucking photos of this autopsy.
Right. Because that is not a thing. There is no precedent for it.
It does not happen. Right. You don't just forget.
This is not one of those things. Oh, yeah, we don't do that.
No. Across the board, no. That is the weirdest part of this case.
He also said, it appears Tamla was involved in a struggle.
There were abrasions noted consistent with that scenario.
There were parallel scratches on one arm.
Since they were fresh, photos would have proven recent use of defensive force. but having no photos injures to our detriment.
There was one x-ray, yet the injury noted as the cause of death appears nowhere.
The Town of Cumming has a history which raises eyebrows.
After conducting my extensive review, I have come to the conclusion that the truth never had a chance here. oh my god and then he ends it by saying here we are fighting an uphill battle because those who wear the badges and were entrusted with the investigative task failed you but this is not over it will never be over be safe be strong we will get to the bottom of this Well, that was almost like one of those anonymous things that they put out.
Fucking A. I was like, Ralph? Damn. Drop the mic at the end.
He was like, fuck this. We're going to get to the bottom of it.
We're getting justice. And literally the entire world was like, fuck yeah. you are yeah like i believe in him i'm like yes ralph i want to know what happened And I feel like these people will not be hard to crack once the pressure is on.
The problem is that the pressure was never on. exactly there was no fucking pressure whatsoever once that pressure once it starts getting a little hotter in there they're gonna be like people are gonna turn on each other oh Hell yeah.
Like the football moms are going to be like, well, she did.
And then it's going to be like, well, she did it.
And then Jose is going to say some shit.
You can craft this shit. If you put, because it's exactly what you said.
There was not one ounce of pressure. Because Officer Christian just sitting there going.
Right. You know, Mike's just sitting there hanging out with people, chit-chatting.
Everybody's just casual as fuck. Any other officer, even in Bridget's interview, any other officer, like, I'm sorry, I watch crime shit all the time, would have been like, Okay, that's not the question I asked you.
Let's get back to the question. And they would have been like fucking annoyed.
Like it's one thing to allow someone to go on a tangent to see if they like accidentally... say something but then it's like let's bring them back you have to like somehow angle them back let's corral them in Because she's going off on like power tools and shit.
And you're like, what? She's talking about Halloween.
It's like it's almost Christmas. lady. Well, there was a petition on change.org that was wanting this case reopened and it had, last I checked, which was probably two weeks ago, 586,000 people had signed it.
Awesome. And this was like just put on there recently.
June 18th. So very recently. A couple days ago.
It was reported that Forsyth County Sheriff Ron Freeman sent a letter to the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, which is where her body was sent initially, asking that they reopen the case.
Hell yeah. He said, and I quote, The sheriff said, quote, renewed requests for reexamination are best served by an independent law enforcement agency. to review previous findings and to search and act on any new evidence which may come to light.
Your agents will have complete access to my department and deputies as well as my full cooperation.
Good. Now, that's all well and fine. Is he a new sheriff?
Was he not there? I don't think he was there for this.
So, Officer Freeman... You better be telling the motherfucking truth about that.
Like that's what, but I'm like, okay. Yeah.
I hope we do have your full fucking cooperation.
Will they have full access? And it's like, will they have full access of what you have now?
Or full access of what was there the whole time.
Because I don't want to see any bullshit that like, oh, we lost this.
This is missing. And it's like, yeah, you better cooperate.
The whole fucking world is watching you and we know that shit happened at that party.
I wanted... Like, now this is one of those cases that it's like, I want to fucking know what happened.
Oh, I need to know. And now... The pressure is on all of these cases because the whole world is suddenly starting to wake up. and i'm so glad because this has been happening and like seeing this case i knew of it i had researched it a little bit but when i went deeper into it i was like Holy shit.
Well, and you know what? I'm going to say, like, I was ignorant to this case.
I had just heard about this case. Yeah. It's shitty.
There was no media coverage. But that's the thing.
It's like, why are we not hearing about these things?
These cases. It's true. It's concerning people of color.
You're just not hearing about it. No, you're not.
Because it's open shut. Yeah. Bye. Let's not deal with that.
Whoops. She got drunk and she fell off the porch and somehow got all these injuries and none of it makes sense.
It's like, okay. But give Bridget a power tool.
Oh my man, Bridget. That was the best. Bridget girl.
Wow, that was a lot. It's, so that is the case thus far of Tamela Horsford.
I hope we get to do an update on that case.
Gosh, I hope we get to have an update on it.
Wow. I really, really, I'm going to be watching this hard.
We will update whatever comes out of it.
Just like, you know, Lori Vallow and stuff will throw an extra episode in that week just to give you the lowdown.
Yep. We actually probably will end up doing an update on Kendrick Johnson because a lot is coming up about that.
And when we try to do those extra like... throw in a third episode during the week if it's like updating something we'll make those ad free so you know whenever you get one of those like yippee so let's all hope everyone keep an eye on this one Tamla Horsford was murdered.
That's my view on it. I don't know by who right now, but we're going to find out.
We'll see if I have to shut down the comments on this Instagram post too.
Oh, God. But Tamela Hersford was murdered.
That's my view on this. Bada-boop. Let's just end on that note.
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We hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. not so weird that you throw somebody off a balcony and then try to go get a Dunkin Donuts gift card to cover up for it even though maybe you didn't do it I don't know if you did or not but somebody did it at your house so let's talk about that and we'll find out what happened there okay bye Save my contacts.
Yes. Parties. Thank you. If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.
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