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I have been listening to the Martha's Vineyard Beach and Book Club, which actually Elena recommended to me.
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Hey weirdos, I'm Elena. I'm Ash. And this is Morbid.
What what? It's a big one. It's huge. Gonna be two parts, kid.
This is a two-parter for sure because there's just too much.
A two-part bummer. A real bummer of an episode.
We're going to be covering today the really, really tragic and awful case of Matthew Shepard.
And this happened in 1998. Obviously, we're going to go into it in a minute, but I was like 13 years old at the time.
So I remember this. vividly when this happened yeah i was three so i don't remember it happening but I do remember learning about this in high school.
And if you've ever seen the Play the Laramie project, that will ruin you yeah so so will this episode yeah and i think i was talking about it with john earlier and he was like 15 or 16 at the time so he was in the same kind of boat I was where he remembers it like really vividly And he kept saying to me, I just remember that one photo they kept showing of him, like, it just, like, burned in my brain that, like...
It's this black and white, like, kind of professional-ish kind of photo of him, and he just looks, like, really sweet and handsome and just very, like... he's just sweet and it's just in it like oh this one's really gonna it's this one's gonna be a tough one I think I'll probably end up crying at some point.
Yeah, I burst into tears at one point while I was... researching it so I remember watching that play in my high school auditorium like bawling my eyes out it's tough one.
And just to warn straight up ahead of time, there are a couple of parts in this podcast where I am going to have to be discussing hate speech.
We're going to be, I'm just going to be saying. a word that can be a little triggering for people it's I know it's triggering for me I don't like the word I hate this word but it's important I think it's important that I read what this you know the people who did this to matt actually said so you can really get a feel for how awful they are i agree i don't want to like censor it to take away from the the brutality of what they say.
But I will, before I say it, I'm going to say Hey, it's coming, just so you guys know, so it's not just like banging it in the face, because I know sometimes hearing certain words can be like, ugh.
So I understand that, but just wanted to let you guys know.
Before we jump into this case, we just wanted to quickly update. on our show situation because people have been asking.
So we just wanted to give a quick update just to give you what we have so far.
So we'll just run through this quick. And then for Patreons asking, we are going to be shouting out some names at the end of this episode.
Yes. So. On August 11th, we are going to be at the Punchline Comedy Club in Philadelphia, but that's gonna change yeah we will not be there August 11th yeah I always say we're gonna be there but that's just the kind of like placeholder that's our placeholder date that is going to be moved so if you have tickets for the philly show in august it's going to be moved up again hold on to those tickets we're working on it September 16th, we're going to be at the DC Improv in Washington, DC.
So far, that's happening. September 23rd, Zany's in Nashville.
Two shows going on there. Let's hope we can get there in the fall, guys.
I know, seriously. September 24th, stand up live in Huntsville, Alabama.
Alabama. We're coming for you regardless of when it is.
Regardless. October 11th, two shows at Talia Hall, Spooky Spooky in Chicago.
Come on, give us that spooky time date. So excited.
November 10th at the Comedy Zone in Charlotte, North Carolina.
Charlotte. November 11th at the Good Nights Comedy Club in Raleigh, North Carolina.
Raleigh, we're coming. March 26th. Yes, I remembered which number three represents this week at the Wilbur Theatre.
The Wilbur Theatre in Boston. and remember buy tickets to that guys there's tickets left and we want to pack that place out because now we have all this time to prepare for it so it's gonna be a crazy raise the show oh my god i literally can't wait and then last but not least we are going to have a show on january 27th at Comedy Works South in Greenwood Village, Colorado.
We are. So Denver or Colorado, we are coming for you.
I know. I always want to say Denver when I talk about Colorado.
I don't know. It's just like the first thing i think of but colorado we're coming for you january 27th let's get it All right, so I'm going to start the case.
So everybody hold on to your butts. With extra care.
Yes. October 7th, 1998, Aaron Kreifels was only 19 years old and he was a student.
Mm-hmm. He's just riding his mountain bike near what is currently Pilot Peak and Snowy View Roads in Laramie, Wyoming.
The street names were changed. after Matthew's murder.
That sounds like such a peaceful place to find something so horrifying.
Yeah. So they're Pilot Peak and Snowy View Roads now.
Um, and also the, the fence that is involved in this case is no longer there.
Good. So you can't go, nobody can go look at it or anything.
I don't really, I wouldn't want to. Yeah, but you just never know.
I just wanted to tell people, don't go look for it.
You can't. Initially, Aaron had hit something with his bike and he had flown over the handlebars and onto the ground.
And so he got up, he's like dusting himself off and he just looks around really quick and he notices something kind of flopped against the fence.
This area was surrounded by buck fences, which are fences, everybody's seen one for sure. it's fences built with like wooden posts that are placed in an X and then the other posts are kind of laid against it.
Yep. Yep. It's like what you kind of see in like, western movies and stuff it's like that fence that you picture I just think of Tom Sawyer when I think of fences It's not that fence at all.
It's not. No. But I just think it's that.
But it's like what you would see in like a Western movie or like in the prairie.
Yeah. It's just the kind of fence. When you're just stumbling through the prairie.
Yeah, like a tumbleweed's gonna blow by.
Like, that's what you think of. Yeah. So Aaron saw something crumpled along the fence near him, and when he first noticed it, he assumed it was a Halloween prop.
He thought it was a scarecrow someone had put out there to scare people.
And honestly, he was like, Shit, it was scary.
So he's like, I had to take a harder look because I was like, oh, that's like a scary prop.
He takes a harder look and he sees that it was covered in blood and dirt and not fake blood.
Or fake dirt. So he's like starting to get some senses here.
So now he says he saw real hair. And then he saw that the scarecrow was slightly breathing.
Oh, my God. And he said he could see the chest moving up and down very slowly and very labored, but it was moving nonetheless. so he realized it was a human being and he immediately called police right Now, Officer Reggie Flutie was the first officer on scene and she is a fucking legend.
Really? Legend. This woman made me want to hug her.
Like, her interviews are so genuine and she was so selfless in her care of Matthew at the scene.
In the documentary, which I... recommend everybody watch it'll just like it touches your soul it's called matt shepherd is a friend of mine In this documentary, Reggie explains what happened when she arrived, and it goes like this.
So she said... She couldn't drive all the way up to the fence because she said it was like hard terrain.
So she drove as far as she could. And then she walked all the way or really ran because when she saw him and she immediately, which I'll talk about in a second, she thought this was a younger child. when she first saw him so she said she went on foot she ran all the way back to him he was on his back with his hands tied behind his back and then tied to the fence And she said blood was absolutely everywhere.
She said he had clearly been brutally beaten.
She couldn't even see facial features. She said the one thing she could see, and this is like...
This part really got to me. The one thing she could see is that on both of his cheeks, the only place that there wasn't blood, were the trails where his tears had washed it away.
Oh my god. And she said, like, she literally said there were two... where tears had just streamed down his face and washed it clean.
You would never be the same again after stumbling upon that.
No. And she said when, and somebody asked her in the documentary, you know, you've seen photos of Matt now.
Did he look... like no did you tell that that was him and she said absolutely not he looked deformed How do you do that to somebody?
Oh, you'll find out. So now one thing that also made me like tear up about her interview was that She said when she walked up, after noticing Matt, she noticed a big doe deer lying near him.
Really? And she said it was like in a bush a little bit, but laying down.
Like taking care of him? And she said this deer didn't run away as she ran up to Matt.
And she said she just watched... me slowly and she goes and then she slowly stood up and trotted away because she was like okay help us come and she said she so Flutie said this made her feel good because she said she okay she he wasn't alone and hopefully he knew that this The deer was there.
And she said she felt like this doe was like looking over him until someone came.
Wow. Yeah. So she said the first thing she thought of was that due to his stature, he must have been about 12 years old.
Like she was literally like, this is a little boy.
Right. In reality, Matthew was 21 years old, but he was small.
He was about barely 5'3", which is barely taller than me.
Yeah. And everyone's always commenting like Elena's like the smallest thing ever.
He was barely taller than me. And I think he, at, like, he was, at his most, he was, like, 110 pounds.
Like, he's a very tiny dude. So, she called for backup and they obviously all took it very seriously because They thought they were dealing with a legitimate child at this point.
Yeah, which is probably good, I guess, that they thought he was a child because it got everybody moving a little faster.
I'm not saying they wouldn't have moved fast, but it worked out how it should have.
Yeah, it puts up the little red alerts. Right.
So while waiting for backup to arrive, Flutie said she just went into life-saving mode and she was like, I just wanted to keep Matt alive as long as I could so he could get to the hospital.
Right. I wanted to make sure when he was with me, he was alive.
He was alive. So she also was very concerned with him not... feeling like he was alone yeah and she kept saying i wanted him to know that i was there and that i was there to help him so she kept being like i'm here you're not alone i'm here with you now He deserved that.
Anybody does. Right? And so she threw on the last pair of medical gloves provided by her sheriff's department.
And she started clearing away Matt's airways of blood because there was just blood in his nose and his.
He was gurgling on it. So she said she just was trying to get the blood out so he could get anything out of there.
Well, the gloves were faulty. And they started breaking, and she didn't care.
She just kept going with her bare hands.
Good for her. So she kept going any ways, cleared his airways of all the blood that had built up.
Mm-hmm. And she had cuts on her hands because she had built a shed the day before because she's just like a super woman she's just doing everything and she wasn't even concerned with her own well-being she was just she just helped save his life she just helped him Like, she's legit a hero.
Because that's what you're supposed to do as a first response.
I mean, that's above and beyond, obviously.
But it's like, I wish all people were like that.
But to have that mentality of just, like, altruism.
I'll do anything. I'm doing what I have to do to keep this person alive.
Right. We'll back up all the way back to December 1st, 1976 in Casper, Wyoming.
Is that his birthday? When Matthew Wayne Shepard was born to Judy and Dennis Shepard.
He had a younger brother named Logan, who he was very close to.
They were total opposites, I guess. Really? was tall, he was athletic, but he was also a bit of an introvert.
And Matt was very tiny, not athletic at all, and loved to be around people.
Really? But they balanced each other really well and they just got along.
Yeah. And there's a lot of, in like the documentaries I was watching, there's a lot of like home videos.
And they just have like this cute brother relationship where like Logan's the little brother who's always wanting to be around Matt.
Like it's just really cute. I always love that.
Yeah. So his mother said that when Matt was little, he loved to do creative things.
He was always writing. He was always, like, acting.
He was very, like... Like theatrical. And he loved to write poetry.
So he would write poetry for the neighbors and leave the poems in their mailboxes.
Stop. And then I guess I think it was like his grandfather or something was like a postmaster and told him like, technically you have to put a stamp on it because it's illegal.
He's like, Grandpa, I'm just, I'm being philanthropic.
Yeah, he's like, I'm six. Just let me do it. it so he was like okay cool um i'll just find beautiful rocks and i'll leave these people beautiful rocks so make their day So his mother was like, yeah, so he just, like, left them beautiful rocks.
Like, clearly an empath of the highest degree.
Oh, yeah. And then his mother also said it took him a long time, which we'll get into. to come out to anyone, including his closest friends, his family, anyone.
I think even to himself, to be honest. And, but his mother said she knew from a very young age that he was gay.
Moms? She just, yeah. Moms just know. And she said and she says in one of the interviews, she's like, I know this seems very like stereotypical and I hope I'm not being like she's like, I hope I'm not like being cliche here. offending anyone, but she said his favorite Halloween costume was Dolly Parton.
That's incredible. And she was like, he was her many times for Halloween.
And then he would dress up, like, not on Halloween as her.
Oh my god. And he was, she was like, and obviously that doesn't, like, make you gay but she was like but it definitely made me think like maybe yeah you know it could be a possibility right So, like I said, Matt was very small in stature.
I mentioned he was like 5'3". At the time of his murder, he was only barely 101 pounds.
He was tiny. Mm-hmm. So, he was an athletic, and he did get teased a bit when he was younger, like just normal stuff, but he didn't seem to have any real problems getting people to see... his like sweet and caring personality.
He was a good person. He would win people over a lot.
Right. His family says he was actually elected peer counselor in school and he made friends very easily.
In fact, he was voted friendliest in his high school class.
There you go. So he definitely like he was a charmer.
He was sweet. He was caring. People obviously like to him.
Yeah. People said he just cared a lot about people and he loved like he thrived.
He's one of those people who thrived on being around people.
Mm hmm. So his friends said he enjoyed acting in all the school plays.
He was really interested in politics. That was something he got really interested in from a young age, too. and he he loved to read the newspaper he was a big newspaper kid so like he could like keep up with adults right like current events news politics like he was like up on it That's awesome.
And he had big dreams of getting out of Casper, Wyoming and being something great.
But he wanted to help people too. That was like part of his plan.
Again, he was really informed, so he had all the tools to do it.
In fact, one of his dreams was either he wanted to be famous for something.
And which unfortunately later everybody was like, well, Matt always wanted to be famous.
Like his friends were like, this is not the way we wanted him to be famous.
But he also wanted to be like a diplomat and like really make change.
Good. I love that. So noble. Now, well, and in a way, I guess he did.
He did. He did. He very much informed change and like created, I mean, he created new legislation.
Obviously not in the way that he wanted.
No, but luckily something came out of it, you know?
Right. So the family had their sons. They attended public school in Casper. until Matt's junior year of high school, which was in 1994.
Okay. So in 1994, Dennis, who's Matt's father... Uh-huh. got a job as an oil rig inspector with a Saudi Arabian company.
Oh, wow. So he moved the family to Saudi Arabia.
Now, they said, I mean, this was, I mean, his senior year of high school.
That stinks. But it didn't, though. Okay.
Because first of all, the parents I'm like, kudos to you.
They were like, we wanted them to see more than Wyoming.
And we wanted them to. And they were like, we also wanted them to see more than the United States.
We wanted them to see other cultures. We wanted them to be And appreciate other people for their differences.
And we wanted to make them try to work through the hard, you know, the culture shock. that you get by living somewhere else.
We wanted them to figure out how to deal with it.
When it seems like because of like who Matt was, he'd be pretty down to do that.
And he he thrived. I could see that happening.
So for his senior year of high school, he actually attended the American school in Switzerland, which is a boarding school.
Because Saudi Arabia didn't have any American high schools at that point.
Matt loved it there. like loved it really uh he had tons of friends he ended up telling his mother that he met the best people he would ever meet in his life at that boarding school Oh, my God.
I love that. He made, like, lifelong... Like, they were friends afterwards.
I mean, he had amazing experiences. Yeah.
Um, at this point, he still wasn't out. Like, he was not out to his friends.
People knew, though. His friends were like, I knew.
I've been around him. I've spent so much time with him.
Yeah. You know, I mean, like, one of my best friends, like, when she finally told me...
My reaction was like, I know. And I was like, I just wanted you to feel comfortable telling me.
So I'm glad. I literally said like, can we go get pizza now?
I remember when I told you that I was going on a date with Annie, you were like, okay, cool.
Yeah, I was like, awesome. That's great.
Tell me how it goes. I feel like when you're close to someone, sometimes you know before they're willing to tell you right and it's just one of those things you have to let them tell you and they're yeah you don't push somebody yeah never try to force someone just wait until they feel good about it and they'll tell you right actually if they want if they feel safe with you if you're supposed to know you're gonna know if they feel safe enough to tell you they'll tell you So his friends knew, but he was obviously not out.
And this boarding school that they went to had this thing where they like to send kids to like different countries and different places for like almost like an abroad kind of thing yeah And they just wanted them to like broaden their views, get new experiences.
That's what it was all about. So he was like abroad going abroad.
Exactly. So Matt and his friends chose Morocco.
Even though the school was a bit hesitant because of safety concerns, because it just wasn't like...
It didn't seem like the safest place to just send a bunch of like American teens over.
Right. So unfortunately, something terrible did happen there.
Oh, really? Now, his friends say that everything was going well, they were loving it, they were trying to be as safe as possible, staying in groups, but...
Matt knocked on their friend's door at 2am one night screaming.
Oh no. So they open the door and they're like, what is going on?
And he's shirtless, he's shoeless, and he's screaming and sobbing.
And when he was able to speak to them, he had taken, he said, and let me just preface this, trigger warning.
Rape. So, just know that there's that. When he was able to speak to them, he said, I went out to take a walk just to, like, cool my thoughts and he said when he was on his way back to the hotel He was just pulled into an alley by six men who robbed him and raped him.
Oh my god. His friends said, obviously, this incredibly horrific violation changed him completely as a person.
Obviously. Obviously. His mother said he really retreated into himself.
He didn't want to tell anyone else. Like, he was...
They said he came back to school and he was haunted.
That's like a... A horrific experience.
That's not even like a good word for it.
It's like there is no word for that. Right.
And his, I mean people said that like he was even, I think his mother said something along the lines of like, He even took on the posture of a victim.
Like he was, he slumped over and he kind of like hid himself into himself.
Which she said was totally not Matt. Yeah.
And so... That was a really, really, really traumatizing and awful thing that happened to him.
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The town of Agde in France is famous for sun, sand, sea and sex.
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He had, again, at this point still hadn't come out to anyone really.
He was very much closeted. He came out to his mother his freshman year of college at Catawba College in Salisbury, North Carolina.
His mom handled it with total love and acceptance.
Good. I love that. Which he was worried about, I guess, before.
He had told the guidance counselor, like...
I'm worried my parents will just like totally disown me.
I think even when you know what your parents' reaction is going to be, like there's always a hesitancy there.
I'm sure. Is that a word? Hesitancy? Yeah, sure.
And also, you know, this is... Wyoming is not, like, known as being, like...
Super, you know, I mean, they're like especially conservative.
Yeah, it wasn't very progressive. But they're really not known for being like super like anti, you know what I mean?
Like they're, that's not something they're really, I think they have like their motto is something like live and let live or something like that.
That's a good motto. But I think one of the people I saw in one of the documentaries was like, I think the live and let live is like...
I'm going to live and you can live, but like live way over there.
And like, don't tell me about it. Don't let me see you live in.
So I think it's a little bit of a... So that's not really let live.
Yeah. So I think he was a little... You just don't know.
Right. You don't know. And I think his dad was a real, like, dude's dude, so I think he was a little worried that He might be, like, disappointing him in some way or something.
I remember, like, it's not the same time as right now.
No. It was, like, different time. For sure.
So he tells his mom. His mom's totally fine.
Just tells him, I love you, Matt. Like, I don't care.
It doesn't change anything. Yeah, it doesn't change the fact that you're my son and I love you.
Mm-hmm. And so I guess Matt was like, you know, let me tell dad.
Don't tell him I want to tell him. So his mom was like, I promise I won't.
And then she was like, and then I immediately told his dad because she said. not to be a dick right she was like i did it because i know sometimes people can react in the moment and she was like i didn't want him to say something to matt that he couldn't take back later.
Right. Just in the moment. Just say the wrong thing.
Yeah, she was like, I just didn't want him blindsided because she was like, I didn't know. what the reaction was.
Right. He could say something just off the cuff that would be very damaging.
Even without meaning to. Exactly. It could be very damaging without him intending it.
You could say the smallest thing to somebody when they come out to you and it could be taken the wrong way.
Exactly. And that's why she was like, so I told him just so he would have a buffer. of like that which I do love that she did that I think that was a good like mom she's protecting her son that's a good mom move that's a mom she was like protecting both of them she She was protecting their relationship, to be honest.
That's a matriarch right there. That is.
Good for Judy. So he tells his mom and his dad, or he tells his dad, and his dad literally said that He was like, dad, I have something really important to tell you.
And he said, I'm gay. And Dennis was like, okay.
And then he was like, what's the really important thing you had to tell me?
I love that. And he said the same thing.
Right. He was like, you're my son. Right.
That's all that matters. You're my son. You're Matt.
You're Matt. You're a human being. Which is, like, that couldn't have gone better.
No, that's the perfect way for it to go.
And I think this gave him a lot of, like... super you know sorry if you're gonna hear a squeaky chair guys i gotta move i gotta readjust actually too um So I think this gave him a lot of confidence now to feel like, okay.
This was the big hurdle. And now I can start trying to be a little more open about this.
And maybe it kind of brought him back to life a little bit to know that he was accepted.
Oh, I think it definitely did, because then he started coming out to a couple of friends.
Like, very close friends. He was still very, like, concerned about it being, like, super... Yeah.
But he moved to Denver for about a year.
And this is... He did go kind of... He kind of slid back a little.
He went through... This was only for about a year, but he went through some severe periods of depression.
Yeah, I mean, that makes sense based on everything that he had gone through.
Yeah, he was still, I think he was still very much reeling from that experience.
Mm-hmm. And at one point, so they said like, you know, friends would show up and he'd just be like on the couch for days.
They couldn't get a hold of him. That makes me so sad.
But then he'd go through periods of being like Matt. really high highs like super high highs super low lows and they all kind of like knew he was obviously going through something Right.
To be expected. And he was very, he was Episcopalian.
And his family was. And they were very involved in like church and everything.
And he went to a church at this point at one point that was near his home.
It wasn't an Episcopalian church. Um, but he went in there and he asked whoever was there, you know, I'm having trouble.
I'm struggling with like being gay. I'm, I'm having trouble with it.
I'm having trouble telling people. right just make me feel better what do i do and whoever it was in there basically told him like it was a sin and you're gonna burn in hellfire cool like you're disgusting And basically treated him like a diamond.
And this person, like it just shook his core.
That makes me so mad. Because he cared about the church.
And he was like to have them, somebody from a church where it's supposed to be the safe place, like sanctuary.
It's supposed to be a sanctuary. And he's going in there being like, please just tell me that it's okay, that I'm okay.
I just if you're like you're not affected by somebody else being gay.
It does literally nothing to you. So like.
Why is me loving who I love going to make me go to hell?
That doesn't make sense. It doesn't. And not one person on this earth will ever convince me. me that they have any business being involved in somebody else's relationships.
Right. So that bummed him out. But then. he transferred to the University of Wyoming as a political science major.
Okay. He really, really thrived here. Really?
So he went there. He immediately got involved in stuff on campus.
His friend Jim Osborne said in the Matt Shepard is a friend of mine doc that Matt immediately created a mentoring program for the school to help new students.
I love that. Particularly LGBTQ students.
So he was very invested in just helping them transition into the school.
Right. Giving them a place where they could feel comfortable.
He seemed to really settle in. He was really feeling good mentally, emotionally.
He stated to several people only weeks and days before his murder that he was finally feeling safe in Wyoming.
Oh, my God. Yeah. So, October 6th, 1998, Matt had met with the LGBTQ group at the University of Wyoming and they were planning a celebration for the upcoming Gay Awareness Week.
They were, like, planning a bunch of events because he was part of this whole thing.
Right. Very exciting, and they're on their way home.
He decides he wants to stop and have a drink at the Fireside Bar.
Okay. And he went around 8 or 9 and he was like, does anyone else want to come with me?
And they were all like, no, we have to like run and go, you know. we have to you know study we have to go to sleep we have to do this not everybody had an excuse And so he was like, all right, well, I'm just going to stop and have a beer.
And so he stops around eight or nine. And he's just sitting there.
I think the bartender said he just came up to the bar, had a beer.
Just sat and like just chatted with him a little bit.
It was very just like chill. Just living his own life.
And he said he had seen him before come in by himself and like just sit and have a drink and then he would just go home.
Yeah. Yeah. It's a very normal thing. A big deal.
So around 10 or 11 p.m., two straight up monsters.
Mm-hmm. 21-year-old Russell Henderson and 21-year-old Aaron McKinney walked into the bar.
Okay. They were roofers. They were very sporadic with their work.
The bartender said they bought a pitcher with dimes and nickels.
Oh. And the bartender was like, I was really hoping they didn't have any more dimes and nickels because I do not want to deal with that again.
So he was like, I was really hoping they were just going to leave after this.
Right. But the undersheriff, Rob DeBrie, and Sheriff Dave O'Malley both describe Aaron McKinney as someone who got in trouble a lot.
Mm-hmm. uh was basically just a straight up asshole like everyone just knew him as a dick yeah russell was quiet and was a follower oh good yeah and mckinney had recently had a baby a son are you kidding me with his girlfriend and had dropped out of high school he was known again as an asshole who liked to fight What?
And making off with $2,500. Wow, Kentucky Fried Chicken's doing well.
Right? OK. And he was also spent time in a juvenile detention center. like uh three months or something like that for stealing from a cash register too bad he didn't get stuck there yeah And he was actually waiting for a sentence from the Kentucky Fried Chicken theft.
Was he? Yep, and when he was arrested for this, and he was also openly homophobic and racist.
If you're openly, if you're homophobic at all or racist, but to be open about it is like, wow.
Yeah. Oh, cool. He was a straight-up asshole.
What is wrong with you? Yeah, so much. There's so much wrong with this dude.
So, Russell Henderson... was a high school dropout with a ton of DUIs and driving offenses, but...
He started out as a junior high honors student.
What happened? Very well-rounded kid. Apparently lived with his grandparents at one point and was like super respectful, helpful.
Even neighbors were like, he was a good kid.
So like, don't be a follower. And that's the thing.
People are like. I can't see him doing this.
And then they're like, I can't see him leading this.
And so people were like, I know he's really... he gets led astray and it's like okay that's all well and good but like you have to be There has to be some evil in you if you're going to follow someone to the depths of this.
Like, I'm sorry. we've all been in situations where i'm sure we followed a crowd yeah like junior high and stuff like that like done something that we're like you're not proud i probably shouldn't have done that right I just followed along with the popular kids.
But not this. But you don't fucking murder someone.
If you're murdering someone, then you wanted to.
That's just the end of it. So people who knew him did say he never expressed hatred for gay people or bigotry of any kind.
But again, he was a true follower. He didn't have an original fucking thought of his own.
Well, and it was obviously there if he did what he did.
Yeah, he just, and honestly, ignorance is not an excuse.
No. It's just not. Now, they both said that they saw, the two of them, Russell and Aaron, they saw Matt and they thought he must have money.
Like, just obviously. And we only have nickels and dimes.
Exactly. And they knew he was gay. And so they said they went into the bathroom and they discussed it.
They were going to act like they were gay.
And they were going to rob him. Okay. Which is, like, really?
To pay for, like, another picture. Exactly.
So... And it's like, why don't you just like like consecutively fix roofs instead of doing it here and there?
Well, and also like just I hate people who steal.
Right, like, just get a job. Well, and it's, like, not even that.
It's not even, like, just get a job, because sometimes it's hard to get a job.
Yeah. But, like... But don't steal. Don't steal from other people.
Like, this is just like, that's not right.
I hate people who steal. Well, and I think if...
I honestly think that if they had said like, hey, buddy, can we like grab 10 bucks?
Matt probably would have given it to them.
Honestly, and we will find out that they don't really have to do anything for him to give up his wallet.
Right. He literally gives it up. Right. He offers it to them.
So they figured, you know, they're going to pretend they're gay.
They're going to lure him out of the bar.
And the bartender remembers them all leaving together.
Mm-hmm. He said, I saw Matt and them talking.
He said, I thought it was a little weird because when they came up to order the picture, Matt was at the bar and they never interacted.
Right. But then all of a sudden they were talking, so he's like, they obviously didn't know each other, but then they just started talking. so he's like all right they walked out together and the bartender was like that was the last time most people saw matt alive right Now, so they drive away and they drive away in Aaron's truck.
Russell is driving, which is like... Good job, because Russell's the one with all the DUIs and the driving offenses, but definitely have him drive.
You're dumb. You're an idiot. And I think it's Aaron's father's truck, actually, I'm pretty sure.
They borrowed the truck from one of their fathers.
Mm-hmm. So Aaron McKinney said to Matthew in the car, out of nowhere, he just said, we're not gay and you're getting jacked.
So what? He also tried to claim later, which no one believes, that Matt tried to, like, grab his leg. it's like no and it's like no it just didn't happen it's like come on like and I believe later they like recanted that and said it didn't happen I think they were trying to use, which we're going to get very far into later, the gay panic defense, which didn't work.
Insane to me. He then started, as soon as he said, like, you're getting jacked, he then just starts to assault Matt and try to get his wallet.
Mm-hmm. So Matt just hands him his wallet.
Right. He's literally like, here you go.
Gives it... Aaron admits in his confession, because the police are like, did he give you... Like, did you... have to take the wallet by force?
And he's like, no, he just gave it to me.
So why did you keep hitting him? Like, what are you doing?
And so he just kept going. So he's hitting Matt with the butt of a .357 Magnum revolver.
Oh my god. And he was just hitting him over and over and over, like psychotic.
Right. Now, this is when they pull off into an isolated area, like in the prairie, basically.
They drive out to that fence. They dragged Matt out of the truck.
And after a struggle, which they could tell that Matt struggled a lot.
There were evidence that he tried to run and that they got him, evidence that they dragged him and he ran away.
It's awful. And I mean, everybody like this gets worse.
So just like it's a really bad case, guys.
So Aaron told Russell. Go get some rope in the truck and we're going to tie him to the fence.
Like, why though? I just, I don't understand.
And so he had... He had a length of rope in his truck.
Russell went and got it. Russell apparently, according to Aaron, tied him to the fence.
Also tied his hands behind his back. And Russell is just a little lemming and just literally everything.
So according to Aaron as well, Russell didn't hit Yeah, but he didn't stop him, so he's just as bad.
He didn't stop him, and he also at one point claims that Russell was giggling.
Like, found it funny. Yeah, so he's gross as well.
And I will say, Aaron does not throw him under the bus for hitting him.
Right. So... But he does tie him to the fence and he ties his arms and he does nothing to stop this.
Right. So once he's tied to the fence, he just, Aaron starts beating him again and again and again while he's tied.
So he can't do anything. Yeah. And with the butt of the revolver, he said he also used his fists a couple of times.
Once he was satisfied, he stole, he had the wallet and he stole his shoes.
Like, why? Yeah. Now, all in all, according to the autopsy, there were 18 hits to his head and face with the butter of the revolver.
Yeah. There were four skull fractures. Oh my God.
What ended up being the fatal blow was behind his right ear where they had caved in his skull. and crushed it so badly that it crushed his brain stem, which your brain stem is like all your major functions.
Right. So they crushed it. They didn't. totally kill it basically but which is why he ended up living slightly for i say quote unquote living right um they also this blow also tore his ear like almost completely off oh my god like to And for no reason.
And they, this is not robbery. No, no. This is not robbery.
You are, first of all. That's a hate crime.
He, willing you, gave you. His wallet. He gave you the wallet.
And you said so. And you stole his shoes.
You could just leave. There's no... I, to brutally hit someone that hard, you have pure hatred for them.
And, like, for no reason that affects you at all.
No, none. Now, Matt was left tied to that fence, bleeding and going in and out of unconsciousness.
In the freezing cold Wyoming winter, because this is October.
Oh, my God. Freezing cold. It's the middle of the night.
And in the middle of the night, it goes down below freezing sometimes.
For 18 hours. Because it was so secluded.
Yeah. Thank God that guy was riding his bike the next day.
Temps literally dipped below freezing. Right.
And he was out there in... Just wearing normal clothes.
Regular clothes. With no shoes. And bleeding profusely.
Mm-hmm. This is when Officer Reggie Flutie arrived on the scene, like we talked about in the beginning.
Right. Now, when we left her, she was using her bare hands to clear Matt's airways of blood. right bad alert this just shows her complete altruism right just jumping into action without regard For herself.
Yeah. I'm going to save this guy. Like more people just need to have that kind of just.
Mentality. Compassion for another human being.
And for a stranger, just a complete stranger.
She didn't know him. Right. So when Sheriff Dave O'Malley arrived on the scene.
He said there was blood spattered in a 50-foot radius.
Oh my god. And he said there were drag marks all over the ground where, like we said, Matt had clearly tried to escape and been dragged back several times.
In a book called Unfinished Lives, Reviving the Memories of LGBTQ Hate Crimes.
It's by Stephen Sprinkle. Mm hmm. Officer O'Malley, or Sheriff O'Malley, said it was the worst crime scene he had ever witnessed in his entire career.
Yeah, I could believe it. And this is very interesting.
This I found like, wow. He also said, quote, I was a rotten son of a bitch when it came to dealing with gay issues.
I had preconceived ideology that I grew up with hearing it from my father and friends, the jokes we used to tell and the things we used to say.
And then he said, after seeing Matt, quote, my eyes opened up.
I didn't realize how a hate crime affects all gays, not just an individual.
Matt's friends were scared to death. Some left town as a result of what happened.
Some transferred to other schools. They knew if it could happen to him, it could happen to anybody.
All kinds of people get killed every day, but I'm not afraid to walk down to the liquor store and buy a six pack as some of these people were.
It's absurd that it took something this tragic for it to hit me.
Wow. But at least it did hit him. Good for him for admitting that.
To admit that is huge. And to just be like...
To be like, it took this, this horrific, the worst crime scene I've ever seen in my entire career.
Which is a lengthy career at this point.
It took that for me to not look at all gay people and be like, gross.
Right. Like... And for him to admit that, that's pretty great.
That's huge. And it shows that you can, it's okay to tweak your thoughts, your outlook on the world.
That's called growth. Exactly. It's okay to sit there and go, well, shit.
I was wrong. I looked at this situation for how long?
And I looked at it this way because I was taught this way or I just looked at it this way and this is what I believed.
It's okay to learn information or absorb a situation and then go...
Whoa, whoa, whoa. I got to switch this because you it's like it's unlearning hate because hate is a learned behavior.
And I feel like a lot of people feel like they can't do that.
And it's like, no, you're allowed to do that.
You should actually. It's being a decent human being to evolve into like. you should be evolving with the world and you should be evolving your way of thinking.
Things change all the time. So it's like, guys, do that right do it right so Meanwhile, McKinney and Henderson went back into town after they left Matthew tied to this fence and Just didn't give a single fuck.
At this point, they were asked later, like, did you think he was dead?
And McKinney's like, yeah, I figured he was probably dead.
And he was like, I didn't, he probably, he just didn't care.
Oh, he literally said he was like, I literally didn't give a shit.
Like, I don't care. So he was like, yeah, I figured he was dead.
To just go about your night after that. Oh, well, guess what they do?
So they go back into town and they pick a fight with two Mexican-American teens.
Yeah, the teens were Emiliano Morales and Jeremy Herrera, both 18 years old.
They both said that these two assholes just jumped them on the street.
Because they just weren't done with their night of fucking terror yet.
And Morales was hit in the head with the revolver.
The same one. Yeah, the same one. And ended up needing 21 staples in his head.
Whoa. And that's when his friend Jeremy hit Aaron with a stick to get him off of him because he was like, what the fuck?
Get the fuck out of here. And then they ran away.
Well, McKinney ended up with a hairline fracture that night from getting hit with the stick.
Uh-huh. And so he had a hairline fracture in his skull and was brought to the hospital.
Police questioned. They were like... I know you're bleeding, but like, why do you have that much blood on you?
Right. And they were like, what the fuck is that?
Because it was soaking his clothing. And he was just like, oh, yeah, it's from my own head.
I just bleed a lot. And they were just like.
Not that much. And in reality, it was mostly Matthews, obviously.
Wow. He was put in a room. Four doors down from where Matthew lie, unconscious in a coma.
No. For a period of time that night, they were four doors away from each other.
Wow. So Matthew was laying in a coma in one room and his killer was laying four doors down and they had no idea.
That's insane. Isn't that unbelievable? To go back and know that, it's like... Unbelievable.
Wow. What are the fucking odds? That's the thing.
And it's like, and knowing now... and i'm sure if just as his parents i keep thinking of like because i'm going to get into you know his parents coming back and everything probably in part two i think because we're going to end this in a bit but I just think of his parents now knowing that information and knowing like while you were trying to get to your son. who was laying in a coma after being beaten for no reason whatsoever and then tied to a fence for 18 hours alone while you had no idea.
Right. Then you have to sit there and know that for a period of time while you weren't there, he was four doors away from the man who did that to him and that no one knew.
Mm-mm. And it's like, huh. That's like the Cindy Hindi thing.
Honestly, it blows. Like the rarity of that is like bananas.
When does that happen? Right. When does that happen?
That's like we always say, like when you're watching a movie and you're like, OK, like that was a little over.
Exactly. And it's like that. But this is the reality of the situation.
Right. It's insane. And I think I am going to end part one here.
Wow. Matt is now in the hospital. He is in a coma.
And McKinney and Henderson are not caught yet.
Wow. So we are going to stop part one here. give you guys a little bit of a breather because part two is pretty rough too so yeah we're gonna i think everybody needs to be like to take a minute Yeah, and I suggest anybody wanting more information, definitely read, I'll link it in the show notes, his mother, Judy, wrote a book.
Um, Matt Shepard is a friend of mine is a great movie to watch.
It just, it has everybody who was close to him talking about him.
It's just like really. Like touching. Like a celebration.
It's so... And it's, like, very heart-wrenching at times, but it's... I believe it.
Like, beautiful at the same time. Definitely watch those, but...
You're in luck because part two is going to be coming out on Sunday.
So only in about two days. So you don't have a long time to wait.
I won't make you wait like a week. for part two.
We're going to give you part two right away.
So I hope everybody is feeling okay right now.
And I hope maybe you took something away from this so far.
I hope you did because you know what? It's Pride Month and... That's the whole point of us doing this.
Yeah. And we need to celebrate, but we also need to be aware of what the LGBTQ plus community is dealing with every day.
Hopefully this is going to inspire someone to change their way of thinking.
I hope so. I hope so. All right. Well, we're going to thank our Patreons.
Yay. Weird segue. Sorry. We're going to take a quick right turn to like a happy thing.
Yeah. Yeah. So number one is Margaret Conant.
Margaret Conant, you're on it. Oh, girl.
Next is James, uh... paria james paria i can't wait to see you i can't wait to see you next we have a madonna oh erin Erin.
She's, like, our, like, fifth Patreon that's Erin, and it's just Erin.
I love it. Erin's so hot right now. Erin's so hot right now.
Next, we have Morgan Elizabeth. Morgan Elizabeth, you are the tizabeth.
I don't know what that means, but like, yeah.
You're my favorite. Next is Janine Payne.
Janine Payne, you're not a pain. You're not a pain in my neck.
You're not. Next is Grace Hanger. Grace Hanger.
You hang her in there because you're the best.
Hang her in there. Then we have Megan Harmeyer.
Megan Harmeyer, you rock. You rock my socks.
Then, I'm sorry if I mess up your last name.
I'm going to look at this for like one more second.
Chris... Mo Rags. Chris Mo Rags. Yeah. Give me Mo Rags.
Give me Mo Rags. Thanks, Chris. You're awesome.
Thank you. You rule. Our next one is another Madonna.
Ooh. Allison. Allison. With a Y. Ooh, Allison with a Y. So hot right now.
So hot right now. Then we have Kateri, I think.
Cisneros. Cisneros. Kateri Cisneros. That's an amazing name.
You're the best. And we're really sorry if we said it wrong.
We love you, Kateri Cisneros. Love you.
I'm going to do two more Patreons. Who will it be?
Trisha Bell. Trisha Bell, you ring my bell.
Yeah, ding, ding, ding. And then last, but certainly not least, is Danny B. Danny B.
You're an A plus in my book. You're an A plus plus in my book.
Thanks, Dani. Well, as always, guys, you can find us on Instagram at...
Morbid Podcast. Hit us up on Twitter. Amorbid Podcast.
Send us a Gmail. Please, please, please, please, please send all your listener tales to the Gmail account. yes with the subject listener tales and then whatever fun thing you decide to write because those are really funny yes morbid podcast at gmail.com and we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird but not so weird that you're a giant ansel and you walk into a bar and kill somebody for no reason because that really just makes me want to punch you directly in the face but i wouldn't do that because i'm too nice bye I'd punch you, so.
Yeah, I'd make her do it, but don't be that way.
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