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Hey weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And this is Morbid.
It's a whole ass morbid. A whole big morbido.
Get your speedo. Actually, you can get your Speedo right now because it is monsooning outside.
You could catch a wave out there. You literally could.
So if you guys hear... some thunder, a wicked witch floating by the window.
If you hear Dorothy calling for Auntie Em, don't worry about it.
It's just a thunderstorm happening right now.
Just a storm. Just a storm. Just a New England storm.
So, you know, lots of stuff going on in the world right now.
Yeah, lots of stuff going on in the world.
Lots of stuff going on with us. We've made some. business decisions that are really serious really serious business guys just kidding We have decided that our mini episodes are actually going to just be another main episode, because they already are anyways, and you know what?
I've gotten pretty good at making main episodes.
You have. Here, here it is folks. We're going to keep the mini theme song.
We're, We're going to pretend they're minis.
You can't lose the mini theme song. Yeah, because it's too fun.
But they're going to be full-ass morbids, so we're going to have two full... episodes a week for you guys yeah um and we just kind of made that decision and what we were initially doing for the month of june for pride month is we wanted to focus on cases that were affecting the LGBTQ plus community.
So we are still gonna do that, because we think it's very important.
We love Pride Month, so we don't wanna just abandon that schedule.
But now that we have two, you know, big episodes to work with a week we get to fill that with anything we want so we can still do what we've been doing with the mini episodes some weird things that like kind of obscure Yeah, don't have another place, but we're also going to fill those with just big-ass cases now.
Yep. So that's fun. And what we've decided to do... because we think it's important now more than ever to get these cases out there and into your ear holes. we are going to start focusing those second ones on victims that are people of color.
So we've gotten a lot of feedback. We've gotten a lot of people requesting cases the last week or two with all the protests going on and ever since the George Floyd murder people have been like why don't you cover this one why don't you cover that one we've been taking it all in A lot of them we already had on our scheduled caseload.
So now we're just moving them up. But now we're going to move them up because it's more important now than ever to get these cases out there because people need to hear them.
So we have a few that we know we're going to be doing in the next few episodes.
And we're going to be doing Tamla Horsford.
Mm-hmm. LaVena Johnson, Kanika Jenkins, and DJ Henry.
And DJ Henry is actually from around our area.
So I think it's important to get all of these stories out.
Exactly. So those are the ones that we have scheduled for the next few episodes.
So if you guys have any other cases that you really want to hear us go into and dive into.
Let us know. We'd love to hear it. We will be doing listener stories and spooky roads in between there and all that fun stuff.
But yeah, we just want to let you know that those are coming.
We're going to be focusing on some victims that are people of color.
So for sure. And thanks so much for everybody's support with us being vocal about this.
Yeah, we wanted to be vocal. I think if you're staying silent right now, I don't agree with that personally.
That's the thing. We thought it was important to speak. at least to say that we're here, we're allies, We're trying, we're learning, we're gonna make mistakes, but we're gonna try to fix them.
And I think it's important to speak up and to listen. we're trying to do that and you guys have been awesome and supportive of that and everybody keep fighting because justice is coming yes it's coming yes yes making little small steps so it's important keep the momentum going There's too much going on right now that people have to listen.
So keep it up. Justice is coming. We're going to fight for you.
We're going to support you. So. Absolutely.
We love everybody. We love all our listeners.
And this week we're going to be talking about another case where justice has not yet been served.
No way. We are going to wrap up with part two of Lori Vallow.
Yeah, we didn't want to wait to do part two because people have been like, tell us.
That's what happens. And do you know today that I read that she likes to be called Lori Vallow Daybell since she married Chad Daybell.
So I think it's even so great that we're just calling her Lori.
I love that. Because get the fuck out of here, Lori.
No one cares. Nobody cares what your last name is because... Also, she shouldn't be able to keep Valo anyway, but...
Well, it just seems odd to just be tacking on married names here and there.
Yeah, it's just too much. Yeah. Too much, lady.
Yeah. Get it together. Swap one out for the other if you're going to do it.
Well, so last week when we left off, Lori's brother Alex had just shot her estranged husband Charles.
Oh, that. You know. That casual time with what we left off with.
Like I said, he had claimed self-defense and although everyone's behavior seemed off, there was nothing police really could do at the time.
That whole thing was strange because that was the one she had like a pool party.
She had a pool party that night. Yeah. And she didn't tell his kids like anything.
She was just like. She was like. Texted him.
Texted them. He's dead. Yeah. Your dad's dead.
My dad. Sorry. Not even my bad. Just Emmy will let you know.
Yeah. Bye. Bye. So... Then, like I said, Lori packed up the kids and she moves to Idaho so that she can be closer to Chad Daybell.
Uh-oh. So we didn't really talk... at all about Chad Daybell last week.
So guess who we're about to talk about? We gonna talk about Chad.
We gonna talk about him. So Chad is a well-known LDS author.
He has actually written more than 25 books.
Wow. So that's a lot of books to be writing.
And a lot of them are fiction. Wow, I'm actually, that's crazy.
Well, his brain is like wild and so I understand how he could write that many books.
Your brain is like only like diet Wilden.
It's like like we talked about with Crystal Wilden.
Yeah. So yeah. Twenty five books. Wow. According to this woman named Suzanne Freeman, Chad was a pretty normal guy in her opinion.
His faith and his ideas all aligned with the teachings of the Church of the Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Okay, cool. Yeah, all aligned with the Church of that.
And she actually worked on a couple of books with him herself.
Most of the books, like I said, were fiction.
But he did work on these books and surrounded himself with people who'd had experiences where they died. claimed to have seen the other side, and came back to tell of their experience.
That shit's always wild. Bonkers. Wild. I don't know if I've ever known anybody that that happened to.
I don't think I've ever known anyone personally, but I've definitely heard of that happening.
And some of them you're like, whoa. Yeah.
Some of them are like wild experiences. If that really is what's happening over there, like, whoa.
Well, let's talk about what Chad experienced.
Oh, I bet Chad had an experience. He did.
He had two actually. Of course he did. So he claims that when he was 17 years old, he was cliff jumping in California with some of his friends.
And he had this like wild near death experience where he crossed over into another dimension and that he realized that this life we're living. is not the only one happening.
There's other lives happening all around us all the time.
Okay. I mean, like, that's... I can get down with that.
Yeah, that's almost Elon Musk-y a little bit.
Like, that's almost like a simulation kind of thing, which I, like, I can't totally say that does it.
Yeah, like a parallel universe happening.
Yeah. I don't hate it. Have you ever seen the memes that are like, I hope parallel universe me is doing good right now?
Yes. I hope paradise. And honestly, right now, I think everybody's like, I hope parallel universe me is doing better.
I just think paradise. I bet it is paradise.
Okay, well. Yeah. Then he had another experience when he was 20.
This time he was in California. He was hit with a super intense wave.
And while this happened, he was being like thrown around in the water.
It's like, I guess, drowning. I don't know if he was drowning.
He was being barrel rolled, probably. Yeah, basically.
And he said that while this was all happening, his spirit came into contact with his dead grandfather.
And he said his grandfather was able to show him all these things that were going to happen to him and throughout his life, like in the future.
Wow. He showed him his future wife. He showed him future kids like all these different things that were going to happen.
I bet his grandpa didn't tell him that he was gonna marry a murderer and potentially become one himself.
Yeah. Didn't seem like Grandpa said anything about that.
And if he did, it seems like Chad was like, whelp.
Welp. Let's get on with my lives. Let's do it.
He's like, hope parallel universe me isn't doing that.
Oh my. Yeah. Yeah. Also like Chad is just like base jumping and like surfing.
He's wild enough. He also I didn't look too further into this but him and his like brothers or like siblings used to grave dig like they would dig graves to make extra money he's an interesting fucker yeah he truly is that's really interesting Well, he claims that after Gramps showed him everything that he came out with a veil.
Where this like heavenly world stays open and Chad can live among both worlds.
Oh, okay. So that's, like, how they say, like, All Hallows' Eve is when, like, the veil between worlds is thinnest, so that's why, like, spirits can So, okay.
So, it's, like, it kind of reminds me of, like, Donnie Darko, but that's, like, a little different because it's, like, time travel.
I don't know. Yeah. This is, like... The veil between worlds is thin.
Yeah, so he was able to live among both.
That's pretty cool. So, yeah, okay. Suzanne, that woman we were talking about earlier, she says all of a sudden around 2014, Chad started talking about new views and opinions that didn't align with the church, and ultimately he decided to leave the Spring Book Company, where he was president.
And he said that he wanted to leave so that he could prepare for the, quote, call out, which is the end of times.
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Start your free trial in Apple Podcasts, Spotify or the Wondery app. there's always really like ominous names for these things like the rapture to me when I heard that word for the first time I was like The branding on this is Primo.
Rapture just reminds me of dinosaurs because of raptors.
And as soon as you say rapture, I'm like, oh.
Like, yeah, you hear the violin in the back of your head.
PR people for these like end of the world names are great because the rapture and I'm like the call out.
I just picture God being like, you ain't it.
Like he's calling you out. Well, that's like the call out.
Yeah. It's a lot. Oh no. Well. it seems that after chad left the book company he began to travel more and he started uh like relaying his teaching about the end of times He was going to all these events.
And that's actually how he became connected with Lori in the first place.
I'm not shocked. So. Lori's best friend was, there's two Melanies in this story.
We're going to get to another one later.
All the Melanies. Yeah. This is Melanie Gibbs.
Okay. So Melanie Gibbs met Chad first at a, quote, religious conference. where he talked about the veil, his visions, and all these past lives that he had lived.
Cool. Melanie talked to him after the event and then she introduced Chad and Lori around 2018.
Okay. But. Lori knew who Chad was before that because she was, like, pretty obsessed with all his books that he had written.
Oh. she had read basically all of them and was like super into this dude it's misery Yes, it literally is.
You're right. I was trying to think of what movie that was.
I'm your biggest fan. Well, she is. Wow.
So it ends a little differently, but you know. but like only slightly.
Yeah, honestly. So eventually over time they, they really hit it off.
And then over time they became closer and closer.
In fact, they went on a podcast together.
Oh, shit. Not ours. Nope, not ours. Not welcome.
No, no, thank you. This one was called...
Time to warrior up. That's a mouthful of a podcast.
I mean, I feel like we're two years into here.
I can give a little feedback of what works and what doesn't.
You're like twisting your handlebar mustache like that ain't. it it's the call out that's a large large name hey i'm elena i'm ash and this is time to warrior up it's hard to say Yeah, it is.
It doesn't roll off the tongue. But I mean, who knows?
Maybe they're killing it. This podcast was like a podcast put out by Preparing a People, which is... like an end of times prep group preparing a people, which is also hard to say.
Preparing a people. Preparing a people. But so, yeah, then they were on that podcast with some other preppers.
Oh, all the piece talking about the end of the world and other casual things like that, you know.
I'm pissed because unfortunately you can't listen to this episode anymore because Preparing Up People took down Time to Warrior Up.
Oh, okay. It's really hard to say all those things.
Did they take it all, like the whole thing down or just the episode with Laurie and Chad?
Um, good question. You should look further into it.
Maybe they took it down just because they're probably murderers.
Yeah, you know, probably. And they were like, this hurts. this harsh is our mellow so they're like that didn't age well no so they talked about the end of the world yada yada yada you can't listen to it anymore But Melanie says that Chad and Lori were getting closer and closer, quicker and quicker.
Uh, They bonded over all the past life experiences that they had because Chad told Lori that he had 31 past lives.
That's a lot of baggage. Which, how do you keep track of all your lives?
That's so much baggage. All your lives, all your wives.
Like that's a lot. It's a lot. And she was pretty impressed by that because she herself only had 21 lives.
Oh, so she was like, I am a rookie here.
Yeah, I'm not up in the life game. A newborn babe, if you will.
The game of life. The game of lives. Exactly.
It's a little different than the game of life.
Sure is. Well, Chad and Lori. knew that in previous lives they'd been together.
Oh, of course. I say that to John all the time.
Oh, do you? I don't. Oh, I was like, that's kind of cute.
Like in a jokey way. That would be really sweet though.
If I was like in another life. I mean, I totally would find each other.
You totally would. We totally would. I believe in like past lives, but I think this is a stretch.
I like the kind of spooky past lives, lives thing where like a kid will be like that time when I was on the Titanic mom, like those are the things that I love.
These get a little much for me, but I'm willing to listen.
It's weird that to me, the Titanic thing doesn't seem that far-fetched, but this does.
Right. It's on the same parallel. Because I'm here, I remember we did a listener story where somebody's child was like, when I was on the Titanic.
I believe that. I was like, that kid was on the Titanic.
Right. And then I hear this and I'm like, that's bullshit.
It is weird that we're like accepting of that.
It's because it's not spooky. Yeah, it's not creepy at all.
It's just wild. So they knew in previous lives that they'd been together.
Melanie said this is where it gets fucked up.
That Chad actually set up a portal in Lori's closet so that they could communicate with the other side together.
Fuck yeah. I want to know the step-by-step, I want the IKEA step-by-step booklet on how to set up a portal.
Did they use a YouTube video? Because if you can set up a portal together, I think you're gonna stay together forever.
Yeah. I mean, the true test is, like, building an Ikea bed, I thought.
I was gonna say, yeah. I thought. I thought that was it.
But now it's a portal. But if you can build a portal together.
I mean. There's no stopping you. I mean.
No stopping you. Me and Annie are going to try it in our new closet.
I'm going to give it a shot. Yeah, ask John to throw all the stuff that he doesn't want everywhere else.
That's how you build a portal. Yeah. it's perfect i love it yep so they did that together which is a true act of love surely is and then Lori had a separate phone where she communicated with Chad.
Because remember, Lori's still married. Oh, shit.
I totally forgot about that. At the point that they had met.
Yeah. Okay. And also, Chad is married. Oh, shady, shady.
Can you imagine if you found out John was setting up portals in other people's closets?
I'd be pissed. I would just be fucking confused, first of all.
Shit. I would be real mad. I'd be not okay.
Because that's a truly intimate experience and that would bother me.
It is truly intimate. Of course it is. Like they weren't sleeping together, but they were building portals.
I'd be like, that's almost worse. They were probably sleeping together.
Let's be real. No, they definitely were.
Well, a lot of people remember thinking that Chad and his wife, Tammy had a beautiful relationship.
They'd been together like a super ass long time.
Aw, poor Tammy. I know. Yeah. Just wait.
She was a librarian. And they had five children together.
She helped him write a lot of the books that he wrote and some of them they even wrote together.
Like some of them are like Tammy and Chad Daybell.
Fuck that guy. Mm-hmm. They were together for 29 years.
Dude. 29. But we're going to get into that a little bit later.
So now we're going to go back to Lori packing up the kids and moving to Idaho.
A few weeks before they just up and moved, Kay and Larry were able to FaceTime JJ.
They said it was like a super fast call and it seemed like he was being coached.
That makes me upset. Well, and he's just like this little nugget.
Like you look at his face and you're like cute.
I want to keep you and protect you and love you.
And anytime there's kids being coached in these scenarios, I'm like, that just like fucks me up because like manipulating a child.
Like, that, like, really bugs me out. And remember, this is an autistic child.
Yeah. Like, that's, he's, like, high energy.
Like, he's a little adorable nugget. Ugh.
Makes me sad. So he kept like looking up past the call and then suddenly he was like, I have to go like, bye.
Oh. So they said it was literally like a 35 second FaceTime.
That makes me sad. So then they up and move to Idaho into the townhouse.
And guess who moves with them? Alex, the brother.
I knew you were going to guess Chad, but remember he already lived in Idaho.
That's why they were going. So Alex moves with them and he ends up living right near them. with the kids, and he's with them all the time.
And this is just, like, her brother. And she had other brothers.
Like, this is not her only brother, but they seemed very close. best friends yeah I don't know about that so they all move they're hanging out with each other All the time.
And this is where things are going to really start to boil over here.
It's time to turn your fucking pot down.
It's gonna helter-swelter in here. No one is really sure of the last sighting of Tylee.
There's like different reports of the last sighting, But the last known picture of her was taken on September 8th at Yellowstone National Park.
Oh yeah, I've seen this one. It's a really cute like family picture.
It's her, Lori. and um jj and i think you can see uncle alex in the corner but i don't remember um so yeah that's the last known picture of her And Larry and Kay kept reaching out in hopes that they could talk to JJ again and have it last more than 35 seconds.
But they were constantly, constantly, constantly ignored.
And the last time anyone saw JJ was on September 17th.
So that's like, what, two weeks after the last sighting of Tylee or the last picture?
Yeah. And you can see the video, and just knowing that that's the last time anybody saw him, it's really haunting to see.
He's playing in the front yard of Lori's townhouse with another kid, and they're just running around like... Not a care in the world.
They're little seven-year-olds. Yeah. He doesn't know what his mom is up to being a crazy person.
Just leave kids out of it, man. That's the thing.
Go be fucked up on your own. Right. No one cares.
Right. Don't bring kids into it. Well, and especially this isn't even like he is her kid because she adopted him.
I'm not saying that, but like. If you don't want to take care of a kid, don't adopt a kid.
Well, that's the thing. Don't take on a kid if you're not ready to.
Exactly. That I will say. Do not adopt a child if you are not ready to adopt a child.
That's just, like, that's just dumb. That's just facts, man.
So that's the last time anybody saw JJ, September 17th.
And then on September 24th, Lori called JJ's school to unenroll him.
Her reason was that she claimed that she was going to start homeschooling him. and she was already homeschooling Tylee.
So there were, this is going on to Tylee now, there were texts sent from Tylee's phone to friends And actually Venmo transactions too that started to seem suspicious.
Yeah. It seemed like. And actually her brother Colby said that he was trying to get into contact with Tylee and she would text him back like super busy, like can't talk right now.
And it didn't seem like she was writing it.
Yeah, because you always know, especially if it's your sibling.
Like you, like you'll be like, are you mad at me if I don't use like 87 exclamation points?
Yeah. how I text. Exactly. So I'm like what?
You could tell and like I can tell how you text.
Like you can tell how your friends text.
Yeah. So in her friends were saying like One text said L-U-V-Y-A.
It said like, love ya. And it was like, Tylee didn't write like that.
Yeah. So they were like, that's weird. And.
Another weird thing to point out is that Colby, the brother, says that whenever he was trying to get into contact with Tylee and asking Lori about her, Lori would go, she's super busy.
Oh. So she's saying it to him. And she's writing it from Tylee's phone probably.
Yeah. That's definitely what's happening.
Right. The Venmo transactions can be explained because, um, Lori wasn't like down with technology, obviously based on how she texts and she would often use Tylee's Venmo account to send money to Colby.
Oh, okay. So those were weird at first, but then they were explained away.
That still makes sense now. Right. So the Venmo transactions get explained, but the texting does not.
Which, I don't know, it stresses me out.
So, now... Lori, we're going to go to Lori's family back in Arizona.
There's like so many players in this story that it's hard to keep up with.
I know, it really is. So I'm trying to take you on the plane with me.
No, I'm following. Good. Okay, so Lori's family back in Arizona was also going through a strange time.
Lori's niece, Melanie, so another Melanie.
This one is Melanie Polosky. was going through a divorce and a custody battle, again, with her four kids and her then-husband, Brandon Bourdieu, or Rudeau.
On October 2nd, a sniper shot at Brendan's car from a Jeep and shattered the window.
Luckily Brandon didn't get hurt, but his window was completely shattered.
That's strange. And he did get a look at the Jeep, which was weird.
And we'll get to that in a second. So that, actually, I'll tell you right now, that Jeep belonged to Charles Vallow.
What? So it's like, who was in that Jeep?
Who was in that? Exactly. Huh. Right. So while all this is going down, Melanie herself packs up her kids and moves from Arizona to...
Idaho. And guess where she moves right into?
Right next door to Lori. I was going to say, I'm guessing within arm's reach of Lori Vallow.
Literally right next door. The entire time she was living there, she never saw the children.
Not once. Yeah. They weren't there anymore.
And she says she did think of it sometimes, that it was strange.
Oh, you did? Like, I did think of, what are they, her cousins, I guess?
Yeah. Yeah. Because that's her niece. So...
Yeah, they're her cousins. Yeah, cousins.
Like second cousins or something like that.
Some weird relation. I don't know. They're related and she should probably be a little more concerned than she was.
Family, that's all that matters. But she said that Lori always had an excuse about where the kids were.
Tylee she said was super independent and she was always kind of like out with her friends remember she was 17 so I guess that's a little explainable but like where's your seven-year-old yeah it's like your seven-year-old doesn't play outside right exactly or activities nothing where's his stuff like in the house where is he in the house And she would say that JJ was at his friend's house or something like she'd make up another excuse.
And eventually she changed the story to say that the kids were staying with a friend.
Because Kay, remember Kay is Charles's sister.
Yes. And JJ's grandma. Yep. Kay was causing trouble and Lori wanted to keep the kids out of it.
So that was her excuse for why her kids weren't around.
You murdered them. You murdered them. You're a murderer.
So... That happens. The sniper happens in October.
The kids start... The kids are gone at this point.
Yeah. And then... Chad's then-wife Tammy has a strange event happen to her in early October.
Now, I had never heard about this on the news.
Yeah. I had just heard about her. passing away but before she passed away um she updated her facebook status 10 days before and she said this is the direct facebook status Okay, neighbors, something really weird just happened, and I want you to know so that you can watch out.
I had gotten home and parked in our front driveway.
As I was getting stuff out of the back seat, a guy wearing a ski mask was suddenly standing by the back of my car with a paintball gun.
I yelled for Chad and he ran off around the back of my house.
I have no idea what the motive was and he never spoke. even after I asked him several times what he thought he was doing.
I was about to smack him with my freezer meats from enrichment tonight.
When I decided to yell for Chad instead, which I had to leave that part in there because yes, girl, I love you.
Smack him with your freezer meats. Or freezer meals.
I thought that was so funny. That's amazing. but what the fuck so Like, this kind of weird shit doesn't just happen around one person.
Right. If you know Lori and Chad, like, all this weird stuff is gonna happen to you.
Right. Yeah. So like I said, 10 days after she wrote that Facebook status, Tammy Daybell passed away.
She was found dead in her bed at age 49.
She had No underlying health conditions and the family said no to an autopsy.
What the fuck? Which is weird. You want to hear something?
A 49-year-old healthy woman, you didn't get an autopsy?
Right. That's insane. They just said like she died of natural causes.
Oh my God, that would infuriate me. You don't know that.
Do you know how much that would infuriate me to see that consent form and have them say no?
I'd be like, what? because what that would be like if like i'm trying to think of a 49 year old woman that i know but What?
Like, it just doesn't make any sense. That's just young.
Another weird thing, Chad and Lori get married two weeks after Tammy died.
You know what, though? Gets weirder. How?
Police have now found out that someone ordered a pair of wedding rings using Charles Vallow's Amazon account.
And do you want to know when those wedding rings were purchased?
17 days before Tammy died. Dude, how are we not putting these puzzle pieces together and being like, quite clearly, she was murdered?
Right. Well, now we are. Don't worry. because so yeah they used first of all you're using Charles Vallow's Amazon account to order your wedding ring for you and your husband who's already married and his wife isn't dead yet.
Yeah, that's fine. Like, okay, that seems totally normal.
No, that's not weird at all. The wedding rings are the exact rings, and you can tell that they use them in the ceremony because you can see the pictures of them.
Oh, my God. They're really distinct. They're like blue bands with like gemstones throughout them.
Personally, I think they're ugly as fuck.
I'm not going to lie, that sounds heinous.
Yeah, it's heinous. So I'm like, how did you know that your wife was going to die 17 days before she died if she just died of natural causes?
Because you moided her. Because you moided her. murdered her.
Well, on November 27th, nope, excuse me, November 26th, Kay calls the police because she still hasn't heard or seen JJ.
And that strange FaceTime call, like, she kept playing it over and over in her mind.
And she's like, something's up. Why haven't I heard from my grandson?
Like what's going on? That's his grandma.
She knows. Right. And. That's his grandma who took care of him for a while.
She had him when he was a newborn. Yeah, when you have someone as a newborn, it's like you know them.
Right. You know their habits. You know who they are.
You know that when they're alarmed. And you can feel even as far away.
You know what? She was a mom. Yeah. She was her mom, really.
For sure. And you know when something's wrong with your kid.
No matter how far away they are. Mm-hmm.
So I say that like I have kids. You're like, I know.
I'm like, I'm telling you. Well, yeah. So she calls the police to do a welfare check.
So they go out to Lori's home to check in on JJ.
And in the front yard, who else do they run into other than fucking Alex Cox?
Oh, that's weird. And he tells them that JJ's with his grandparents.
And the police are like, that's real weird because the grandparents are the ones that wanted to do this welfare check.
So what the fuck are you talking about? Incorrect answer.
Want to try again? You pressed an incorrect key.
Retry? Question mark? So, yeah. They go in and they talk to Lori and she tells them that the kids are in Arizona staying with her friend.
But they go check in. I don't know who that friend was, but they go check in on that and.
It turns out, obviously, they're not there.
Of course not. And I remember seeing all this on the news.
Like, I remember they were like, oh, like, we're going to check on this house in Arizona with a friend, and then they never released who it was, but they were like, no, they're not there.
Yep. They're going on a manhunt. She's sending them everywhere for these kids.
And I just don't think... Oh, it's awful.
We're going to find out. No, as soon as a mom or somebody in that kind of position is saying...
Oh, no, my kids are here. Oh, no, my kids are there.
Oh, no, I was wrong. They're here. They murdered them.
Yeah. End of story. That's just like we've seen it in a million cases.
Every time. And then with this woman, too, like, especially, or, like, the shit that she was, like, believing and getting into, it's like, okay.
Yeah. So... The next day they come back with a search warrant But guess who has up and run to Hawaii yet again?
I'm going to go with Lori Vallow. And Chad.
Oh, and Chad. I forgot. They're newlyweds.
They're newlyweds. Yes. Uh, and this is just for me, this seals the deal.
They were seen on security before they ran away to Hawaii. dropping off some items that belong to the kids at a storage facility.
I remember seeing that CCTV footage. And I remember seeing, because this is so recent.
So it's like, I remember watching this on the news.
And I remember sitting there being like, those kids are dead.
Like, they're putting things in storage.
It's just a matter of where they are. And when they ran off to Hawaii for a vacation, everybody was like, how do we not, like...
That is very clearly somebody who murdered their children.
Very clearly. Very clearly. So they, like you said, were seen on security before they left for Hawaii.
You can see it on CCTV. And then in Hawaii, they get this condo together after assuring the landlord that they had no pets and no children that were going to live with them.
And then the woman who sold them the house, like the landlord, I think they were renting from her.
She found out that Chad had recently lost his wife, so she messaged him.
And she was like, oh, I'm so sorry to hear.
Like she just sent him like a sweet message.
Yeah. And he wrote back this like very cold message that was like, when I woke up, Tammy. had a peaceful look on her face, and she had clearly died hours before, but she's in a better place now, and I think She helped me and Lori come together.
You know what? I doubt that. Yeah, I highly doubt that.
I doubt that. I can tell you right now, if I was on my way out, I would not be helping John shack up with some crazy lady.
No, that would not be my priority. So check up with anybody.
I'm going to go with a no. When I die, I'm not one of those people that's like, I hope that you find love again.
You won't. Good luck. You won't. Because I'm going to ruin it from the other side.
I'll haunt your ass. Chrissy Teigen had the best thing where she said...
She always puts a piece of paper in John Legend's pocket that says...
John did it or something like that. Or she puts one in her pocket that said John did it.
Oh my God. So that if she ever dies, they'll have to arrest him for murder.
Oh my god, that's fucked. And she said, so he'll never get remarried.
That is the funniest shit I've ever heard.
Before anything, he gets, like, super pissed and be like, that's awful.
It's funny. Yeah, it's funny. Chrissy Teigen is fucking hilarious.
I know that's a controversial view because a lot of people don't like her, but I don't get why.
I don't either. We love her. We're pro Chrissy Teigen on this show.
What happened? I don't know. All right. Well, yeah, he was like, yeah, she wanted me to find love.
And I was like, I don't think so. So that's just, that's ridiculous.
This whole story. I'm like, you try to make it line up in your head and you're like, this doesn't make sense.
They're relying on a lot of woo here. A lot of woo.
A lot of woo. Now, it gets fucking crazier.
Are you ready? No. Be either. On November 29th.
Alex Cox gets married to this woman named Zulima, and I might be saying that wrong, I'm sorry.
Zulima Pastines. Okay. In Vegas. Okay. Now, according to the minister, this was a super quick ceremony.
It literally lasted less than 10 minutes.
Oh, Vegas. And he said that they were strictly business.
They just wanted to get married. It was a very cold ceremony.
They want it in and they want it out. And you think with like a Vegas wedding, it's like very spur of the moment.
So they're going to be like all. and love and all over each other.
And like maybe shit face. Yeah. But like this was weird.
And I mean, this does happen, so I don't wanna read too much into it, but because this case is so bizarre, I think it makes you question it.
Alex took his wife's last name. Which, I mean, it happens, like I said.
Oh, yeah, for sure. But it is weird in this case.
Like, you're like, hmm, I wonder why. In this case, because normally it's like, wow, how progressive.
Right. Like, that's nice. Right. Whatever.
But... in this case along with everything else you're like now it turns suspect it seems as though there's a reason yeah right it doesn't seem like he's just being progressive right exactly Although he did spend time in jail, so I wonder... if he wanted to put a different name on like job things.
Yeah. Maybe he just wanted to erase that identity.
Yeah. Kind of thing. I guess that could explain it.
Um, Well, so then you're never going to find out about why that happened because we can't ask Alex anymore.
Because he... on December 12th in his wife's home in Arizona.
What the fuck? So they get married. So he's living in Idaho and And then they get married in Vegas and then they go back to Arizona.
And then I think it's like 2012. 10 days later, something like that.
He just up and dies? He just dies. What?
So, according to Zulema, she got a call. to check on Alex from Lori.
So Lori called and was like, check on Alex.
I talked to him earlier today and he's having a hard time breathing.
And she was like overall it seems like he doesn't feel good and he doesn't sound good.
So Zulema calls her son who was home with Alex at the time and she's like can you check in on him.
So her son ends up calling the police because he walks into the bathroom and he finds Alex passed out on the floor.
Huh. So. An autopsy recently, it was revealed, and it does say that he died of natural causes, but his death is still under investigation.
Wow, that's weird. Weird. That one's weird.
Because he's like a pretty young guy too. it's like you don't just i don't know like he seemed like he was like fit enough yeah and it's it's strange it's just weird that all these people are dying That's the thing.
It's like if this was happening in an isolated incident, it's like, yeah, young, healthy people can just straight up die.
Right. Like, shit happens. But all of them related to... All of this together is, like... To chat at Lori.
It's just so weird. And I remember... Because it didn't come out at first that the brother was dead and his ex-wife was dead.
Not ex-wife, wife. And I remember them saying it, and they flashed to their faces in the courtroom, and they both just look like, oh, fuck.
They're like, oh, shit. Like, this is done now.
Okay, so now we're going to go back to Melanie, Lori's niece.
Okay. She, too, was married the same weekend as Alex in a Vegas ceremony.
Wow. Which is weird. Yeah. She had met Ian I think is how you say it, on a dating app called Mutual, which, fun fact, that was actually developed by BYU graduates.
Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. Do you remember Lori? wanted to go there yep um So it's basically a dating app for people within the LDS church to meet people who are among their faith, who have similar interests.
Yeah, there's plenty of those. Ian and Melanie date for two weeks before they get married.
Whirlwind. Whirlwind. And, like, I don't know.
I'm not going to say much about that, but that's a little.
But we'll just let it hang in the air for a little while.
You can pick it if you want to. Won't you?
She has four kids living with her. You might want to get to know somebody a little bit better.
I'm going to go ahead and judge. that real quick yeah because I wanted to also I didn't feel like people yelling at me but like no it I'm sorry, if you have four kids and you meet someone and marry them after two weeks, that's irresponsible as fuck.
Like you could find out some serious shit.
You do not know someone in two weeks. But do you know what?
She was already involved in shady shit, so I think this is on him.
Because it's like, you did the same thing, dude.
And he has kids. He has two kids. But we're going to find out a little bit about that.
Because if it's just you and you want to do that whirlwind, you know, Mary said, I mean, that's not like, I don't think it's the safest thing to do.
No, but if you're only going to harm yourself.
Then go ahead. By all means. But you have kids.
You've got responsibilities, man. Well, Ian was divorced, and he had been married to a woman named Natalie, who sounds like a bad bitch.
Natalie. Natalie. They had two kids. So when Natalie finds out that Ian is involved with this like chaotic and possibly murderous family.
She calls him and she's like, yeah, I know all about Lori and Chad and they're missing kids and her brother.
I know everything. And I'm going to the police tomorrow.
Yes. I don't want my kids around that family.
Good job, Natalie. Natalie. But Ian decides to go with her.
Which is weird. Like, I don't understand.
I'm confused. So, eventually... He ends up getting connected with the FBI and the FBI asks him to wear a wire.
And he's like, yeah, I'll do it. Like, so he wears this wire while he's around Melanie.
And they're like, just try to get anything out of her.
Like, bring up the kids, bring up anything.
Homegirl doesn't say anything. And then he fucking admits to her that he was wired.
That's wearing a wire rule number one. Do not admit you're wearing a wire.
Never just come out and say that you're wearing a wire.
Like, wha? What? Have you ever seen that video where the little girl's trying to read and it's like, what?
That's what it's like. What? So she's fine with it.
Like she's I guess she was pretty chill about it because they're still married.
Like right currently. As far as I know.
Yeah, I mean, speed bump, I guess. But then... What?
They find this document on... Ian's computer, like somehow his ex-wife obtained his computer and they find this document.
She's killing it. Yeah, I love Natalie. I love Natalie.
So in this document, it says that Melanie was told by Alex and Lori that her husband before, remember the one that almost got sniped?
They told her that he needed to die. Whoa.
This document also stated that Melanie had been told by Lori and Chad that The kids, Tylee and JJ, were possessed by zombies, and it needed to be taken care of.
This took a very sharp turn into, like, Walking Dead.
And I don't know how to... How to deal with it.
I also don't understand like what... Because their form of zombies just sounds like... possession by evil spirits.
So it's like diamonds? For me, it sounds like diamonds, but they're just calling it zombies.
I think it's like the whole end of times thing.
Okay. Because I'm like, zombies... That doesn't really make sense to me because it's like if they're possessed by zombies and they themselves are zombies.
Right. And you would know that. None of this makes sense, so I guess we'll just add it to the list.
We're trying to put logic to a lot of woo, so.
Right, exactly. Okay, so. People know that Alex full-heartedly believed in everything Lori told him and that he was going to do anything to protect her.
And he was also, like, a very... involved man in his faith, so he wanted to end up in heaven.
Yeah. So if Laurie told him that the kids were zombies, he would have taken care of it, plain and simple. because he wanted to be in Lori's good graces and God's good graces.
That's really scary. Yeah. To me personally it sounds like he's a very mentally ill man.
It really does. And she took advantage of that.
Honestly, it truly does. Like, when you lay it out like that, it truly does, to me, sound like he... needed a lot of help right and she wasn't getting it realized that he was almost like an underdog and she used him And then personally, I think she somehow figured out a way to get rid of him because I don't know if maybe he was getting sloppy or she was afraid he was going to talk or what was the deal.
Yeah, because if he was mentally ill, then he was unpredictable, probably.
Right. You know, not somebody that you can trust to hold on to that information. right possibly hold it close to the chest exactly so she told him that the kids were zombies probably and then she also said the same thing with brandon So I think that it was Alex who was... the sniper.
Yep, I was thinking that too. And I think Alex was the guy behind Tammy's car that day.
Yeah. Because who the fuck else would that have been?
And Alex was right there. Alex lives right there.
In Idaho. Yeah, in Idaho. In fucking Idaho.
It's perfect. So I don't know. I don't it's it stresses me out.
I think she was using his like loyalty and devotion to her.
Yeah, for her gain. Yeah, like she was using him as like a killing machine.
Right. It kind of sounds like. Right. Wow.
And I know obviously like to be together, they had to get rid of Tammy.
But it's like, first of all, I'm so confused about how they did it.
Like, I just, that's crazy to me, but it's like suffocation maybe.
Maybe. That's hard to detect. Suffocations can be tough to... That's true.
That's a good point. Or poisoning of some sort if you did it slowly.
I wonder, but I wonder, like, why they really felt like they needed to get rid of her.
I wonder if they just thought they did or if she was catching on to the affair.
Yeah. Because just the fact that they were already buying wedding rings, like, before her death.
That's planned. You were definitely planning this.
So they could have been, like, slowly poisoning her, doing something of that sort.
Maybe. Well, they didn't want the autopsy, so maybe something is going to come out with that.
Yeah, there you go. Okay, well, almost done.
In January, the... FBI searched Chad and Tammy's old home where they left with computers, cell phones, journals, and a ton of other stuff.
Tammy's body was exhumed in December. And the toxicology report hasn't been released yet.
Ooh, I gotta know. So as far as I'm concerned, something's on that fucking report.
Oh, I gotta see it. Chad and Lori are both under investigation for conspiracy, attempted murder and murder in relations to Tammy's death.
But they haven't been charged yet. They're just under investigation.
They're waiting for that smoking gun. Exactly.
Lori, though, was arrested on February 20th in Hawaii.
Because she failed to meet the deadline for she was supposed to tell the court where the fucking kids were.
She had a deadline of producing the kids and she obviously didn't do that because they're dead.
Oh, that's so awful. So her charges are two counts of felony child desertion, resisting or obstructing officers. criminal solicitation to commit a crime and contempt of court.
So she's fucked. Yeah. She was extradited from Hawaii back to Idaho in March, and her bail originally was at $5 million.
Oh, shit. It did get lowered to $1 million.
Yeah. She has been trying to get that lowered so that because remember, she won $17,000.
Oh, yeah. She did. So she does have the means to get out of jail.
Pat Sajak gave her some money. I'm saying, I bet he regrets that decision.
I mean, it wasn't really his fault. You're like, it's okay, Pat Sajak.
It's okay, I love you. You didn't mean it.
Thank you for keeping me company all those years when I was homesick.
But so the judge won't lower her bail, thankfully.
Good. Because, and she right now is using, like, coronavirus as a... excuse to get out of jail and her lawyers are saying that um they're not able to have like conversations with her like the appropriate conversations and like the contact that they need to have with her Well, you know what?
Maybe don't kill your children right before a national global pandemic.
Rule of thumb. Okay. That's no one else's fault.
Exactly. Chad, I don't understand how the fuck this motherfucker is still not facing any charges.
I'm sure he isn't facing any charges right now.
And he refuses to comment on the whereabouts of the kids.
Now, Melanie, remember Melanie. Denise, her ex Brad said that this is a cult where people are being killed off like flies and that Melanie knows where those kids are.
He said, let's get Melanie. Well, she won't fucking say shit.
Fuck you Melanie. Her home though has been searched but she's not cooperating with law enforcement.
Of course she's not. And then... Lori's attorneys and like lawyers and stuff went against Brad and said that he has he's addicted to porn and he's involved in homosexual affairs.
Which I'm like, can we just say affairs?
Like, does it matter if he likes dudes or not?
It's like, okay. So you're telling me that like he likes to jack it to porn.
Right. And he's gay. Right. Like maybe or by.
Okay. Right. Does that mean he's not credible?
That discredits him. no and they i think they said he was like violent against melanie as well like he watches violent porn they're trying to say they're just trying to discredit him of course of course because clearly he's on to something because he's like yo it's a death cult and they're killing people yes Guys.
So they're asking like any tourists that were around Yellowstone National Park at that time.
To, like, review your pictures. That was in September, right?
Yep, September. It was mid-September, the 17th.
No, excuse me, the 8th. If you were in Yellowstone National Park. september 8th or anywhere anywhere near that time look at your pictures think real hard did you see anything weird did you hear anything weird I don't know.
I don't know if they would have been dumb enough to, like, do it in public.
No, but maybe you could see some, you know, there's always some shady business.
The thing that is weird to me is that Alex died and Tammy died and then Charles Vallow died.
And so Charles Vallow was self-defense. Tammy was natural causes and Alex was natural causes.
So it's like. I'm not saying that she should get rid of her kids.
I'm not saying she should get rid of anybody.
But if she was going to do it, she was able to look make those other three look like a mistake so it's like yeah what did you do to the other two but i think the kids no matter what that would be questioned and they'd be like thoroughly not that the other ones weren't thoroughly investigated but kids are like super super you can't make two kids look like an accident But it's like, I just don't understand it.
Like, you know that you were going to get investigated either way.
Like, if your kids... die suddenly or if they fucking disappear into thin air either way you're gonna get investigated That's what kills me.
She's walking around like she's like, I don't know why everybody's so like up in arms that I don't know where my fucking kids are.
And it's like, sorry. Sorry. Lady. Right.
Of course people are going to investigate your ass.
You have two children. It's a 17-year-old and a 7-year-old. just doesn't make any sense to me and the whole thing is I think that I don't think she believes in like this zombie shit.
I think that she knew from day one she was doing something with those kids because she fucking loved that author dude.
He was into her. So she, because remember, she didn't believe in any of, like, she was a member of the LDS church before this.
But this is not the same thing. This is not the same thing.
And it's like, I think that she started talking crazy like that because she had a plan and her plan all along was to be with Chad.
And now it's like she can go back and like maybe claim that she's insane or something.
I don't know. She could at least try to cover it up.
I'm just trying to explain anything in this case, but every time you think that something is...
Normal, it's not. Well, somebody involved in this knows where those kids are.
Melanie does. Melanie 100% knows where those kids are.
Speak the fuck up. What is wrong with you?
I don't know what's up with her and Ian, but can you imagine if John told you that like he was wired and you were like, that's fine.
And I was like, you know what, I forgive you.
And he was like, let's just move on. Right?
Let's just move past this. And he says, and the new husband was like, you know when, I forget exactly what the quote is, but basically he was saying, you know when you keep seeing a creepy thing, like a shadow on your wall, and then you turn the light on and you realize it's like a jacket Like, this is what that is.
Like, all these things are like crazy and stuff, but once they get explained to you, it makes sense.
And I'm like, what makes sense to you in this case?
Nothing has been explained, sir. No. So absolutely not.
So that is my take on the Lori Vallow case.
I really hope that I hope and hope and hope that those children are found alive.
I doubt that they're going to be, but I do hope that they're found either way so that they can be either taken care of by the family that cares about them or laid to rest. for real, because I was talking to a couple of people through Instagram DMs about it, because people were like, what do you think?
Do you really think they're deaf? And some people were like, I think they're in, like, a weird, like.
A bunker. A bunker somewhere. And it's like, that makes total sense.
And if that was the case, I would not be shocked.
I wouldn't either. I don't think it's possible to even be shocked anymore.
But I don't think they're alive. I don't either.
I really don't. But then again, it's like, how did she do such a good job of... disposing of them if she did kill them.
Maybe when they're at Yellowstone, it's real easy to get rid of someone in a national park.
In fact, that's an episode I want to do is disappearances in national parks.
I like that. So we'll do that at some point.
Yeah, I think that could be the key here because there's just so much ground to cover.
Right. It's really hard to find. That is a good point.
So. Well, let us know what you think. Yeah.
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Patreon.com slash Morbid Podcast. We hope you keep listening.
And we hope you keep it going. weird but not so weird that you turn into Lori Vallow and you off and go to Hawaii and then you come back and you your husband dies and then everybody around you dies and then you go back to Hawaii and then you're going back and then you go back to Hawaii again and all these people are dying around you and your brother dies and then all this crazy stuff happens around you and you have no reason to explain and then you are on Wheel of Fortune so you can afford to get out of jail, but don't try to lower your bail because that judge ain't gonna lower it.
Don't keep it that weird, goodbye. Don't do it!
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