The advice in this podcast is general in nature and does not constitute medical advice.
Always consult your doctor if you are concerned about your child's health.
We recommend always following the safe sleep guidelines.
In the spirit of reconciliation, Dr Fallon and Dr Law acknowledge the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia and the continuation of cultural, spiritual and educational practices of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples.
They pay respect to their elders past and present and recognise that sovereignty was never ceded.
A parent reached out to us after seeing a video that suggested bed-sharing.
Infants benefit from stronger attachment to their parent and a host of other positive physiological and psychological outcomes.
The video made this parent feel pretty terrible, like maybe they'd missed out on giving some sort of benefit to their baby.
But what does data gathered from thousands of babies actually tell us about the benefits and the risks of bed sharing?
Let's dive in.
Welcome back to Brand New Little People, the podcast companion to the Sonval Pediatric Sleep Clinic programs created by us.
I'm your host, Dr Fallon Cook, and I'm here with Dr Laura Conway, and we're the directors of Infant Sleep Australia.
Laura, did you happen to see this video in question?
Yes, I did.
I do try to keep my head down and looking away.
Me too.
Yeah.
It just makes my blood boil.
But, yes, I did see this one and I thought, oh, for goodness sake.
Yeah, same.
Yeah.
Parents send us videos via private message quite often.
They send us a video or like something, a post that they saw saying, oh, my God, is this true?
Like is there some science behind this?
And when I see those messages pop up, I'm often too afraid to click them.
Yes.
Some of them are so unhinged and the level of rage I feel for poor parents who see some of this nonsense is just like it ruins everything the evening for me.
You know, if I'm trying to spend the evening with my kids, I'm then really distracted and I'm like putting in my head why this post is so stupid or wrong or whatever.
Yes, and often they're so beautifully curated and they've got lovely soundtracks and beautiful imagery and it looks just so inviting and it's so seductive as well.
Some of the presentation of that material.
And then you just...
Listening to it, reading what's coming up on the screen and my jaw is hitting the floor.
I think, oh, poor tired parents reading this.
Because it is so compelling what they're saying.
It is compelling.
And it looks lovely.
Yeah.
Even I can't help but look at it.
I've actually banned myself from scrolling through our social media feed for the clinics because it just goes oh, they're interested in sleep.
Well, here is all the filth of the internet for you.
I can't deal with it.
So I just go over to my other Instagram account where I just look at like nice houses being renovated.
It's far more relaxing.
But anyway.
So I'm guessing anyone listening is thinking well, they obviously didn't like this video.
What the hell was it about?
So in the video, it's a nice image of a child, you know, sleeping in their parents' bed.
And it's basically making the claim that Bed sharing or co-sleeping I use those terms interchangeably, but basically sharing a bed with a baby is going to help you to raise a better attached child, a more resilient child.
And it talks a bit about how physical touch, you know, creates healthier babies.
So it really sent off the alarm bells for me.
And to the extent where, so this parent who sent it through was like saying, you know, is this true?
Yeah.
And I replied and I said, oh, this is a bad one and it needs a proper response.
So I said to them, you know, we'll do a podcast or something on it.
And it really made me sit down this morning to you know, plan out the podcast and actually go and have a look at all the recent scientific literature looking at bed sharing and what is it associated with in terms of outcomes for babies.
And my gosh, it was very, very interesting and fascinating.
There is quite a decent amount of research in this field as well.
And some areas of research are pretty light on the ground, but there was a really good number of, you know, really strong articles, something we call systematic reviews, which is one of our highest sort of levels of scientific evidence that we have.
But Laura, I think you've probably worked on more systematic reviews in your research career than I did.
Do you want to tell our audience a little bit about why they're so great and why we love them?
Yeah, so all across the world there are groups of researchers and scientists who are answering particular research questions, and they usually do their research study.
Then they publish it in an academic article and other researchers read that information.
All of those studies will have variations in how they were conducted, in terms of the age of the babies, the age, The measures that we use to assess different aspects of child well-being, and a whole range of other things.
A number of families involved.
And so when you look at them individually, it can be a little bit tricky to know which which results are going to be.
What we know is robust.
And so what a systematic review does is it takes like an umbrella view of a particular research question, and then it scoops up all of those different studies that have been published all the way across the world and looks to see of those studies.
What have they all concluded?
What similarities and differences were there?
Which studies are high quality and which studies are lower quality?
And then it comes out with an overall conclusion that says, of the X number of studies that have looked at this research question, this many hundreds of babies were examined.
These are what the general findings are, that and they normally assign a kind of level of confidence in that finding.
So systematic reviews are when you are looking at research.
For any of you budding researchers out there who like to go online and have a look about your research questions, you know, going onto the PubMed website and looking for systematic reviews in particular, it's a really good way to get a quick understanding of the lay of the land, essentially what the consensus is across all of the researchers that are looking at this.
Yeah.
I knew you'd be able to give such a nice description of systematic reviews.
You did better than I would.
I think it's worth noting, too that why systematic reviews are so powerful.
Is that good science?
If you go out and do a study and you have a finding, it should be a finding that can be replicated again and again, and again and again.
Like if there really is this thing occurring in a population that no matter how many times you study it, you're very likely to see the same thing emerge every time.
So, with a systematic review, if you know, 99 studies found that A is larger than B, but one study found actually A is larger than C, or I'm just making up stuff in my head now, but a systematic review is going to say look, probably A is larger than B because 99 of these studies found that thing.
So it can help you pick out any spurious findings that might just be a bit of an artefact and not actually, you know, relevant or important.
So, yeah, we love systematic reviews.
They are awesome.
So I sat down this morning and I used Google Scholar rather than PubMed but either of those are great and sort of started putting in terms like bed sharing, systematic review, child outcomes and things like that.
And there were five systematic reviews, reasonably recent ones, that really dug into, you know, what are the effects of bed sharing.
And, Starting with Horsley and colleagues, in 2007 they had their article published in JAMA Pediatrics, which is a very highly ranked scientific journal.
They looked across 40 different observational studies and probably no surprises here.
They consistently found evidence that bed sharing is associated with increased risk of SIDS or sudden infant death.
And that association was strongest in parents who are smokers.
And bed sharing was associated with a longer duration of breastfeeding.
But they couldn't really establish the direction of that relationship.
Does bed sharing lead to longer breastfeeding or are parents who are likely to breastfeed longer more likely to bed share?
Then really similar findings from DAS and colleagues in 2014.
They looked across 21 different studies and found again, bed sharing is related to an increased risk of SIDS and a slightly increased breastfeeding duration.
Um, the third study i looked at was by baddock, um and colleagues in sleep medicine reviews, one of those journals i was always really wanting to publish it yeah, i didn't quite get there, but i do one day journal one day yeah, maybe.
Um, And they sort of looked at a slightly different question, but they found that bed sharing with a baby was associated with increased night waking.
So more often they're waking and calling out at night.
Warmer baby temperature, which is actually associated with increased seeds risk as well.
And again, increased breastfeeding duration.
So we're seeing like some consistent things emerge even across different systematic reviews.
Yeah.
Another study Morneau and colleagues published in a journal called Sleep looked at 28 different studies.
Bed sharing was associated with increased night wakings, but didn't have an association with sleep difficulties, falling asleep, bedtime resistance or total sleep duration.
So that kind of implies that if you share your bed with your baby or your child, it doesn't necessarily mean they're going to fall asleep quicker or have more sleep overall.
And they actually concluded that because they looked at a lot of different factors.
They concluded that bed sharing was not a determining factor in child development.
So bed sharing really unlikely to have a any kind of impact on child development.
And just finally, another systematic review found that same link between bed sharing and longer breastfeeding duration.
So across these systematic reviews, most of them were looking at various different factors.
And I'm just kind of highlighting what was found to be associated with bed sharing.
And that increased risk of SIDS just keeps coming up.
Yeah.
The breastfeeding duration definitely does as well.
And there are multiple other studies as well that really clearly show that babies that share a bed with parents tend to be more wakeful overnight.
Did any of that surprise you, Laura?
No, it didn't surprise me.
I suspect it will be surprising some of our listeners though, because when you're reading those beautifully curated posts on social media, you would be surprised concluding that bed sharing is going to benefit your baby and that you must do it for their development.
But you know, I'm just looking across these studies, the reviews that you have pulled out, and you know the fact that there's just so many within a relatively short space of time and each of them has got they've each contained lots of studies shows that it is something that researchers are looking at over and over again.
Yeah, and just not finding those links with attachment, mental health.
Yeah.
Yeah, and I think that's something I really want parents to know.
Whatever you decide to do in terms of where your baby sleeps, if you're seeing an influencer or literally anyone, even if you're seeing someone with qualifications which really rings alarm bells, if they are trying to tell you that bed sharing is going to have benefits for your baby's wellbeing, it's just wrong.
If it did, these studies would have seen that time and time again.
It's not for lack of looking um, you know, there's just no evidence that bed sharing has some.
It's almost like, i think, some parents you know, i've definitely had parents in clinics say this to me and i wonder if they have to.
You too, laura.
They'll say but are they going to miss out on all the benefits you know of of bed sharing, all those benefits to attachment, and how close we are?
Yeah, it's like no no no no, because attachment isn't built when you're asleep.
Attachment is built by positive, responsive interactions when you and your baby are awake.
You can't build attachment during sleep.
Um, and we know that um, high quality interactions between caregivers and their babies and toddlers is just so crucial for their development, their language development, their cognitive development, how they perform at school in terms of their literacy.
And we know that children who have higher quality interactions and have greater exposure to more language, which means their parents talking with them more, talking to them, more explaining what they're doing.
I'm hanging out the washing and oh, that's a blue truck.
It goes beep, beep.
You know, all of those rich interactions are the things that are associated with better child outcomes.
And there are studies and systematic reviews of studies that have shown that.
But there are no systematic reviews to say attachment is better when your baby is sleeping in the bed with you.
Yes.
Yeah, I think it's so important for parents to know that.
We were having a bit of a giggle earlier, weren't we Laura, when I was saying it's a bit like with adults.
If you meet new friends or you're dating new people, excuse me, you don't fall in love with them or form your bond with them when you're asleep.
It's when you're talking to them and interacting them and you're getting a gauge on are they responsive to what I'm saying?
Do they care about me?
If I'm upset, do they...
Respond to me.
You know, when you're asleep, you're unconscious.
So there's nothing much happening when you're actually asleep.
And, yeah, I think we can apply that to babies.
Yes, and I think that we're not suggesting that physical touch is not important for babies.
Of course it's important for babies.
But the physical touch when you're awake, and they're awake and they're having that warm lovely, soft touch, interaction with you.
And yes, there are studies which have looked at um, um the effects of that on um the engagement and um bonding between um caregivers and their babies um, but that's when they're awake or, you know, during the day.
They haven't looked to see well, how much they haven't quantified touch overnight in bed and then look to see if that is what it is associated with later outcomes.
Yes.
And there has been a really great study by a wonderful researcher.
I actually got to meet her a few years ago overseas at a conference.
Aytun Bilgin, I hope I'm pronouncing her name properly.
It's one of those names that I always go, am I remembering that right?
I'm terrible at names.
But she did this really fantastic study that actually looked at measured attachments.
So really got into the detail, measured attachment in 18 months old and looked at those who had done some bed sharing in their first year and those who had never bed shared.
And there was absolutely no difference in attachment.
And they used a gold standard measure of attachment called the still face.
It was a still face parrot.
I think it was a strange parrot.
Oh, the strange situation.
Yeah, strange situation.
Yeah.
I'm terrible at remembering details.
Yes, which is the gold standard of testing.
You know how babies react to being separated and reunited with the caregiver.
And it gives a really good sense of their attachment and whether it's secure.
So there are some really great studies looking at this.
And I think it's really important to know that when we are faced with so much conflicting information and it's a problem across every field of science
I mean, like the whole, I don't know, just the noisiest people often aren't necessarily the most qualified.
And I think we see that time and time again in many, many fields.
Yeah.
Yeah, and maybe just thinking about sort of child development, you know, outcomes as well.
Yeah, there isn't, you know, evidence that you know sleeping your baby always in their cot is going to result in better child development than bed sharing either.
So i know a lot of people you know the naysayers who might might tune in, i don't know they will um who are very, very pro bed sharing and think it is the absolute best thing to do would be quick to say oh, they think that everything they do is better.
No, cot settling isn't better for child development.
Um, they're on a par
There just simply isn't really an association between where a baby sleeps and their development, aside from those specific aspects that we talked about the SIDS risk and the duration of breastfeeding.
Yeah.
I think it's also really important to remember too not this has been super closely studied, but sleep is one of the three pillars of health and wellbeing.
So if bed sharing is resulting in more night waking, then it kind of implies that one of those pillars is a little bit wobbly.
Yeah, something I'd definitely love to see a little bit more research into.
Yeah.
So, if you are seeing these posts that are telling you that your child's development will be better if you – a co-sleeping with them or bed sharing with them.
Just know it's not the case.
If you are deciding that you would like to share a bed with your baby, then that's a decision for you to take.
And knowing that there is evidence that bed sharing does result in increased overnight wakes and an increased risk in SIDS which, we must remember, is death.
And there can be other injuries as well overnight.
So I would be advising you to check out the Red Nose Guidelines on safer co-sleeping.
They have a really lovely graphic which describes how to bed share.
But don't be making that decision because you think it's going to be better for your child's development.
And I would just jump in to say, it's not that you're co-sleeping safely.
It's that you're taking measures to co-sleep in the safest way possible to minimize risk, but it's never safe.
That's the people who will just hang me out to dry for saying that.
But There isn't.
And look, I think this really taps into so much of what we do as parents, isn't it?
Like we're always looking at our children and we're weighing up risk.
Like we do it all the time, whether it's choosing where they're going to sleep, whether it's, you know, noticing that one of the toys you bought them has been recalled, or choosing to do up their seatbelt in the car, or choosing to do up the harness in the pram.
You know, these are all little things we do because we want to reduce the risk of harm to our children.
But we all make a decision around what ones are important to us.
I mean, for me, buckling up the seatbelts in the car, that's compulsory.
But you know there were probably.
There was a time actually where I didn't do up the harm to the pram and I will forever regret it because it took a little trip to the emergency room.
Oh, no.
But you know, there are things as parents where you know we don't weigh up the risk as well as we should and we make mistakes.
And I think you've really only got to meet one parent who has lost a baby to SIDS to really grasp why it's so important to try and reduce risk where we can.
Yeah.
And I often, you know, talk about this too that you know with risk, you know, we know that okay, when you bed share with a baby, the chances that there's going to be a SIDS incident fairly low.
But what I would say to parents is imagine you've got a big bucket and it's got like 10000 MMs in it.
And you know that one of them is poison.
So if you eat that particular one, you know, not going to be good, not going to end well.
Do you eat any of them?
No, like yeah, would you give them to your kids and say look, you should be fine, there's only one bad one.
Like chances are you'll be fine?
I mean, you just wouldn't.
You just wouldn't do it, you wouldn't yeah.
Yeah, wouldn't take that risk.
Yeah, i think that's a really helpful analogy, um for parents to think about whilst they're weighing up um what they want to do in terms of where their baby sleeps.
Um Yeah, I wouldn't be eating those MMs personally.
I would certainly not be giving them to my kids.
I wouldn't.
Although I reckon my kids would be like reaching past me trying to eat them.
No, stop it.
Don't ridicule us.
We as adults have our prefrontal cortex.
Well, most of us do.
That is fully developed.
Whereas our children, it's not quite developed yet.
So they just have their... amygdala going, want, want, want.
And in a way, maybe that's a bit like.
You know, if we're thinking about babies in the night, they know that they, you know, if you have previously bedshed and it's something that you're moving away from, your babies are going to be like our kids, like Fallon and my kids, reaching around trying to get a handful of those MMs in that bucket.
They know what they want, but they don't have the prefrontal cortex fully developed yet to help them actually think through the ramifications of that instant gratification.
It's such a good point.
And one last thing I want to touch on before we sort of dive into parent questions is so often I'll see this online as well.
People saying totally valid parents will comment on things and say Oh, my kids were terrible sleepers.
As soon as I gave up and just co-slept, everyone slept better and co-sleeping just absolutely worked for us.
I'm not denying that.
There are 100% of parents who love co-sleeping and their babies do sleep really well.
Most parents it's not the case.
Mostly co-sleeping doesn't work well.
But there are families who love it and really enjoy it and they want to keep doing it.
And their babies actually do sleep better for them.
Yeah. not going to deny the existence of these families.
It absolutely does happen.
And for some families that's really, really helpful.
What I would say is, if you're listening and you're kind of weighing up risk and what should I do?
Um, if you really want to co-sleep with your children, try and wait until they're toddlers, because that's when the risk decreases.
And I know a lot of families, I work with families who say, we co-sleep with our toddler.
It actually works really well for us.
You know, we just want easier bedtimes or they're awake half of the night and what can we do?
And we just work up a plan where they keep co-sleeping for as long as they want.
Like I really couldn't care less if that's what's working for the family.
That's totally fine.
It's just that there are little, tiny babies who are very vulnerable to accidents in sleep, to SIDS, and that's why in the clinic, if a parent has a little baby, you know, and they have been co-sleeping or they're thinking about it I'm pretty clear about what those risks are, so that at least if parents do it, they're really going into it understanding, you know, understanding the whole picture, and that it isn't some magical thing.
You're not sort of doing some magical thing for attachment.
They're not going to love you a little bit extra.
Because they share a bed with you.
You can have a perfectly well-adjusted, well-attached baby that sleeps in a cot that's safe nearby.
And thankfully that's what most parents are really looking for.
They want their babies to be happy and content in their cot, safe and sound, so everybody just sleeps well without that fear of something going wrong.
Yeah.
Yeah, but it's a meaty subject.
I think we did well trying to dive into that quickly on a podcast format.
Yeah, and I feel we're going to get it in the neck, no matter which way we go, because the haters will come for us.
But our responsibility is something that we decided was.
The purpose of creating Infant Sleep Australia and SOMBEL is to give parents the evidence-based information, information to cut through all the misinformation online.
And some people listening might not like what we have just said, but we are just presenting what the research shows and which it shows over and, over and over again.
Yeah.
And it means that parents can make a truly informed decision.
And if somebody's informed decision is that they are going to co-sleep, that's fine.
That's your informed decision.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's all there is to it.
And as parents, that's what we do.
Yeah.
Amazing.
If you've got questions about bed sharing or you know, I know for a lot of families they don't bed share out of preference.
It just happens one night and then they feel very, very stuck and it can be a very tricky thing to move away from.
Definitely submit your questions.
Or, if you're not a member, jump into SunVal, because we have so much information about these types of difficulties.
Yeah.
You know, that's what we're there for.
Amazing.
Let's dive into some parent questions, Laura.
And I know first up we have a parent who wrote in who actually wasn't asking a question.
They just wanted to make us feel special, which was really nice.
Do you want to read this one out?
Yeah, I'll read it out.
So this is from Jillian.
And Jillian writes as 2025 comes to a close, I wanted to thank you both for the gift of sleep that you gave us in 2025.
We started the Sunbelt program and discovered your podcast when our son was three months old.
He is now 13 months and has slept through the night most nights, unless on well or teething, since eight months of age.
He has even started to walk up to his cot now and pack the mattress when he is ready for a nap during the day, which says a lot for a low sleep needs, FOMO baby.
Isn't that great?
Oh, wow.
That is amazing.
So great.
And she says...
As parents, we have also been able to get the rest we need for the busy days.
We are able to show up for an energetic toddler and occupations each day that demand a decent amount of physical and mental capacity.
All thanks to you both and all the good work you do.
The positive impact that your work is having stays with families throughout all days, in the quite happy moments and through to the tough ones.
It allows us to show up as the best parents we can be and the best versions of ourselves for our communities.
Wishing you all the best for 2026.
With thanks, a grateful and well-rested first-time mother.
Oh, that's so lovely.
So lovely.
It gave me goosebumps.
Thank you, Gillian.
Thank you so much, Gillian.
That is awesome.
And don't forget that you did the hard work of turning things around with sleep.
Yes.
Parents so often thank us, but I think, no, it was you at 2am who went, okay, I can do this.
You know, you did it and what a gift to your whole family and to your baby as well.
You know, sleep is so important for wellbeing.
So yeah, that's terrific.
Amazing.
Well, how about I read out a question we've had sent in from Stephanie?
And Stephanie has a nine-month-old who is in the process of transitioning from three down to two naps.
The main problem is that it is hard to keep her awake at around midday if they're out and about.
This is making it tricky to keep her on a two-nap daily rhythm.
Do we have some tips for how to keep her awake in the car and pram?
Unfortunately, they often need to be out so are not able to timetable their days to keep her either out of the pram or car during this midday period.
I hope you've got some tips here, Laura, because I'm finding this really hard.
It's so hard.
Yeah, it's really hard.
I wish that there was a magic wand that I could wave, Stephanie.
At nine months old, just know that it's absolutely fine for your baby to be going down to two naps.
So you're not doing anything wrong, wrong by trying to keep her awake so that she is just having the two naps.
And yeah, often we do say and Stephanie, I guess you must have heard us say it, and it's in the Sunbelt program as well that whilst you're in this transition phase, trying to stay away from cars and prams when you're trying to keep your little one awake, is quite important.
But I can see that that's not the easy for you to do stephanie, and i know that a lot of our members are in rural or remote areas and uh, or they've got all the children that they need to pick up and drop off here, there and everywhere.
So you can't be um, you can't, you don't have that freedom.
So um, i would be thinking about um having a um, some toys that are just for the car stephanie, that are quite tactile for your nine month old um, so that um, She can play with that when she's in the car, something that rattles, makes some noise, playing some upbeat songs that you're singing along to in the car, if you can.
Likewise in the pram, having the pram upright, making sure that they're not too snug and cosy, as in don't put the blankets over them so that they are feeling like oh, that's a sleep association.
If they have a dummy, maybe don't give them the dummy whilst they're in the pram and you are taking them for the walk.
Trying to minimize any sleep associations, essentially.
Um, in those times.
Yeah.
What were you going to add there?
Well, just novelty.
Like often, I think, for these situations, it's giving them something really unexpected, and it might not even be a toy.
Like I know I used to do this with my kids um, I would get an empty milk carton and just do the lid up really tight and give that to them and they'd be like, oh my God, I've never held this before.
This is a mum and dad item that they would never give me, and now I'm holding the magical milk carton.
And they're just like, wow, you know.
Or it could be a plastic jar that the lid's done up, or you could put – you know, sparkles and water in it, or whatever, like something like that.
Or like I ended up with a set of keys that didn't.
They were just old keys that were washed and cleaned that didn't open anything.
Cause my kids are obsessed with my car keys.
So it's like, it might be something that they're just really not expecting to get.
Yeah.
That can be helpful.
So good luck, Stephanie.
It will get easier.
It will.
Yeah.
Yeah.
OK, our next question is from Havisa.
And she opened her email saying I'd like to start by saying thank you so much for your educational program and podcast, which has helped me understand and navigate my son's sleep since he was six months old.
It's a pleasure.
Thank you.
So Havisa's son is now 21 months old and has an 11 hour, 15 minute sleep need.
She started to cap his nap at 45 minutes, as his bedtime was pushing too late to 930pm and he was having more overnight wakes.
So now he's falling asleep around 8.15 instead.
But daycare has said that the nap is too short for someone his age and that nap lengths usually are longer at daycare than they are at home because of all the stimulation kids get.
Havisa wants to know if there's any validity in the comments made by daycare, and should she just stick with a longer nap length and put up with the later bedtime and occasional overnight wakes?
Well, my short answer would be no.
There's no validity in those comments.
Our sleep needs are our sleep needs.
Some toddlers will manage a bit of extra sleep on busy days without it impacting their nights.
But I would say, Hafiza, you've collected data from the subject.
You know your child and you've seen that when they nap for longer at daycare, the nights are terrible.
So I would try and have a conversation with them about how much sleep your baby, your toddler needs, and explaining they're quite a low sleep needs toddler and and explain exactly what happens on the days when they nap for too long at daycare.
Because, yeah, we see this all the time with daycare centres.
They kind of go well.
Most of our babies or toddlers sleep for two hours and they're fine, they have a great day.
But they just don't see the night and they don't understand that.
For some toddlers it results in a horrendous night for those poor parents.
So I'd definitely be trying to have a good chat with them.
If they don't come on board, then it might be that you just adapt the daily rhythm at home as well and accept a little bit less night's sleep until they're ready to drop their nap.
Yeah, yeah.
And look, at 21 months old, 45 minutes isn't unusual.
Especially if they're low sleep needs.
If they're low sleep needs.
That's all they need and they're ready to go.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Good luck.
We hope that that helps, Aviza.
Yeah.
Alexia wrote in.
She has a 13-month-old who has been on one nap for one and a half hours for one month.
He has an 11 and a half hour average sleep need and he self-settles after using the supported accelerated approach, falling asleep at 7 pm, sleeping through the night until waking at about 430 or 5 am.
Ouch.
Alexia says they want to stop these early wakes but find it hard to push bedtime any later, especially after daycare.
Alexis is worried.
It is hunger making him wake up early, as he doesn't eat much dinner or feed much after daycare.
What do you think?
Alexia, most children are eating quite well when they're at daycare in general because they – well, we think it's because there's a kind of peer – pressure where they sit down all together and um, eat together.
So we often find that parents say oh, i only give them a snack when they come home from daycare, because they've normally had like a, a proper lunch and potentially a breakfast and then the morning tea and afternoon tea already at daycare.
So that might be why um, your toddler doesn't eat very much when he comes home from daycare.
Um, So I'd probably not worry too much about that, just ensuring that he's having some kind of supper, perhaps when you first get in the door before he goes into the bath or shower.
I know, sometimes when our little ones come home from daycare, particularly as they become toddlers, we think oh, let's get them in the shower quickly because they're really grubby.
But even having a snack to have as you come home from daycare, so that you can be just feeling confident that your little one is getting some nutrients in them before bed and using a bottle of milk if they're still having one before bed.
I would be thinking let's go a little bit granular with moving bedtime later.
Those wake-ups are way too early, and the fact that he can self-settle sleep through the night just shows us that you've done everything really well, Alexia.
I would be saying let's go slowly.
Let's push bedtime to 10 past 7 am for a night, kind of step it like we do for daylight saving and then wake up at 5 10 that, 10 hours later, big dose of bright light.
So yeah yeah, and every night, or every couple of nights, just move um bedtime and 10 minutes later um, and then over a whole week we would ordinarily see that shift happening um and um.
That, i think, is going to be the easier way for you to do it alexia, with a little one who just gets so tired um, doing that big leap to an eight o'clock bedtime is just going to be too hard for him, i would say, from what you're describing.
Yeah, do you have anything else to add?
Yeah, just try shuffling the nap a little bit later as well, and it won't be quite as hard towards the end of the day then as you make those changes.
Good.
Belinda's written in.
She has a 19-month-old son who has long had sleep issues.
Oh, gosh.
He has a 12 to a 12-and-a-half-hour sleep need.
He wakes between 6 and 7.30 in the morning and actually sleeps in until 8 on weekends.
He naps for an hour and 10 minutes and goes to bed at 8.00.
But he wakes at least once a night at midnight, needing pats and shushes to resettle in about 15 minutes.
And Belinda wants to know how to avoid these wakes.
I think I know the answer to this one, Fallon.
I think Belinda probably does as well.
I think she knows what we're going to say.
Yeah, look, I would say...
His circadian rhythm has figured out that sometimes I have 12 hours of opportunity overnight to reach my sleep needs.
It doesn't know that it's only on the weekends that that happens.
So there's that drop in sleep pressure overnight.
So I would just be tightening up that daily rhythm.
Is it 12 or is it 12 and a half hours sleep need?
Have a look at the average and then decide what it's closest to then work out that daily rhythm.
So if the nap's for an hour 10, how much sleep opportunity is left overnight?
And then i'd have you set bedtime, have your wake-up time and really keep that on track.
Yeah, and then once you've got that rhythm established for a week we know that the sleep drives nice and high overnight then i would be phasing out the padding and shushing to sleep at that point.
Um, Is that what you thought I was going to say, Laura?
Yeah, yeah.
I thought you were going to come in a little bit more cutthroat.
To say that 6 to 730 am wake up is just quite variable.
Yeah, well, yes, it is, isn't it?
Yeah, and actually 6.
So some days he's waking up at 6 in the morning and then on weekends he's sleeping in until 8.
That's a two-hour variation.
That's a lot of variability.
Even for an adult excuse me, an adult would find that tricky, would have periods where we feel really tired and out of sorts.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's totally fine to tighten that up, Belinda.
Yeah, and actually I would say Belinda, you've probably got a really good little sleeper on your hands because, despite having up to a two-hour variation in wake-up time across a week, your son is only taking 15 minutes to resettle in the night.
So I reckon once you do a little bit of tightening of that daily rhythm, it's going to make a big difference.
So hang on in there, Belinda.
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Now we have a question from Melinda, who firstly writes that our program has been the light in the dark, sleep-deprived tunnel.
Oh, that's so lovely.
We asked for this on the podcast the other week, didn't we?
Yeah, we did.
And everyone's delivered.
Send us in your lovely things.
Yeah, you've totally delivered.
Thank you.
Thanks, everyone.
Lovely people.
Such a lovely community.
Oh, how funny.
So Melinda says that they've got an 11-month-old with a 12-hour sleep need.
He goes to bed at 730pm and wakes around 6am, and he has two naps during the day, one at 930 for 20 minutes and then one at 130 for 90 minutes.
She's got two questions.
He has false starts and wakes every hour until midnight despite being very tired at bedtime.
Melinda wonders if, because he has just started to walk, maybe he's extremely tired and needs to be put down earlier.
I'll move on to the next question before I jump in and answer that one myself.
The second question is he wakes for a bottle at 430 am, but this has started to creep earlier to around 2 am.
Molina doesn't think he needs it and they have to wait an hour after he wakes before he will eat his brekkie.
Ah, i reckon she's listened to our other episode.
Yes, i think so.
Yeah um, she says should they drop that bottle and help settle him in those wakes and offer breakfast on wake up to start the day around 6 am.
They're going to the uk for christmas.
Should they wait to night wean until then?
No i'm, I'd get going, but I'd make those timing changes first.
Laura, what do you reckon?
Yeah, definitely.
So false starts are usually almost always an indication that sleep pressure isn't quite high enough.
So yeah, I would be.
And the fact that he's waking every hour until midnight, I mean I'm not surprised he's really tired at bedtime, because he's from 730 until midnight.
He's up and down, up and down, up and down.
Yeah, definitely don't bring bedtime.
I think a lot of parents think that's what they need to do and it's only going to make it worse.
Yeah, yeah.
So I would be looking at that daily rhythm.
I'm just having a look now.
What would that be?
10 and a half hours overnight and then an hour and a half for that afternoon.
Nap has already taken him up to the 12 hours, and then he's got 20 minutes in the morning.
I think he's probably going to be quite close to dropping down to one nap.
I mean the fact that he's probably not quite there yet.
But I'd probably look at maybe evening out the nap so that that 20 minute one in the morning isn't a whole sleep cycle.
I'd be thinking of perhaps working out what a sleep cycle length is and then giving him two full naps rather than that little power nap.
Yeah.
And then a longer one in the afternoon.
And I think that will probably help, because then he's got more time to build that sleep pressure at the start of the night.
Melinda, sorry.
Yeah.
Yeah, I agree.
Yeah.
Do you agree?
Yeah.
And then I think then he's also running out of sleep pressure in the night.
And he's wanting to have that bottle to help him probably have that nice full feeling to go back to sleep.
But he doesn't need it.
Like you say, he's nearly one.
And it's like we mentioned in that last podcast episode.
Sometimes those feeds start to get earlier and earlier, earlier in the night.
And that's what's happening for you, Melinda.
So I would be weaning him off that bottle um now so that you can start the day with um brekkie straight away.
Yeah, i completely agree laura, absolutely all right now.
Um emma G has written in and said thank you so much for opening my eyes to creating a unique sleep plan for my now almost five month old baby boy.
With our first, we went to sleep school and I just felt that approach wasn't the right fit this time round.
On the other hand, I'd also tried a program that was focused on biologically normal waking but still had very structured awake windows.
Your approach.
I don't know what program that was.
Yeah.
Some of these words just jump out, don't they?
Yeah, they do.
Your approach has been such a refreshing and empowering balance.
Thank you, Emma.
Thanks, Emma.
So her baby's total sleep needs are around 13 and a half hours.
The current rhythm is a 6 am wake up, two hour and a half long naps and a third 30-minute nap in the afternoon and bedtime at 7.
She plans to use a supported accelerated approach to move away from cuddling him to sleep.
She's got a sore back so that's making that hard and she also thinks that then it would be easier for her to do.
Supported accelerated.
She wants to set him up for success, so she's got some practical questions.
I'll just read each out.
One is that since birth, she's been tucking a sheet in firmly to the waist and he started rolling.
So she's wondering, should they stop using the sheet?
Secondly, should they stop using the dummy?
At the moment, they just use it to help him settle when he's in their arms, but then removes it once his sucking slows.
And...
Thirdly, should they introduce an extra feed in the day to compensate for reducing to one feed overnight when they start cot settling?
Okay, really good questions.
So...
I got really distracted looking at the daily rhythm when you were reading it out, Laura.
I was like looking at that going, how does that?
So there's two, so it sounds like there's three and a half hours day sleep.
So there's 10 hours left overnight, 7 p.m. bedtime.
I'm guessing this baby probably wakes at 5 a.m. or maybe a little after.
He's waking at 6 a.m.
6 a.m.
Okay.
So maybe there's an hour's worth of overnight feeds.
Okay, cool.
Got it.
So, in terms of the sheet tucked in up to the waist now he's rolling, I probably would recommend phasing it out and moving on to sleeping bags, just because they can get a little bit more tangled up in things once they're rolling around.
Should they stop using the dummy when they start cot settling?
Oh, it's such a good, I think we have a podcast episode on this actually.
It's such a good question.
I think it's important to just make a call.
Like if the dummy's a lifesaver when you're parenting solo or when your baby's unwell.
They really, really love it and it comforts them.
You might decide to keep it, in which case they might not be able to replace it themselves until they're about seven months old.
Or if you're thinking you just really want to get rid of it.
It doesn't seem super helpful.
I will just get rid of it now, before it becomes a real strong sort of item that they're attached to and get a lot of comfort from and start to really really rely on.
As for introducing an extra feed in the day, you shouldn't need to.
You're reducing to one feed overnight.
Typically, what would happen is you would stick to the usual number of day feeds, but babies are pretty good at taking on more calories from those feeds if that's what they're needing.
But it wouldn't hurt.
You know, if it's going to give you the confidence when you're dropping down to one overnight feed, you're going to feel a bit better offering, you know, another feed in the daytime.
Just do it.
And after a few days you might find you can resume your usual sort of pattern of feeding and he should be able to get all the calories he needs from those feeds.
Yeah.
The exception might be if he's bottle fed.
You might find that he powers through a bottle and still seems to want more, in which case you'll just up the total amount of formula in that bottle.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's right.
I'm not sure.
I know Emma sent a couple of emails, one that was really long, and then she listened to a podcast episode where we said please try and keep your emails short.
So then she sent a revised one.
So thank you, Emma, for your dedication.
That's so lovely and thoughtful.
Yeah, thank you.
It does save us a lot of work.
I'd love to tell you we have this huge team of people who review all the emails for us, but we most certainly do not.
No, we don't.
It's just us trolling through the world.
Okay, and I've seen we've got a few more questions and we need to get a shake on.
Let's power through as quick as we can.
We've got the school run creeping up on us.
Yes.
All right, so Katie wrote in.
She has an 11-month-old daughter who has recently started sleeping through the night.
She's always been a good sleeper, only ever waking once or twice.
However, since she started sleeping through, she's also started having longer naps.
This change has coincided with her discovering she can sleep on her side.
She was previously a back sleeper.
She's also started crawling in the past month after working with a pediatric physio on strengthening her hips.
And Katie asks, do I have a unicorn baby who has added extra sleep into her schedule?
Or do you think there is something else going on?
During the day, she's her normal, happy self.
Katie, whilst you're finding that her mood hasn't changed, her behaviour is the same.
Aside from meeting more milestones,
I think that just grasp this with both hands, run with it and love it.
There are some babies that do particularly lower sleep, knees.
Babies that do start to have more sleep the older they get.
And you may simply have one of these babies, Katie.
And this is why we always say to all of our families that when you have created a daily rhythm for your baby, that daily rhythm is based on where they are at meeting them, where they are at.
Once you have then used any cot, settling approaches or that you're settled into the new daily rhythm and everything is going well, you then add a little bit more sleep in, and that can be increased naps, or it can be bringing bedtime earlier or wake up later, because we never know which babies are going to start to sleep for more than they were when we first started working with them.
And so it's always, always worth double-checking at any point whether your baby can sleep for longer if given the opportunity to.
So well done, Katie.
That's great.
Enjoy that unicorn.
Unicorn.
Yes, you have.
Officially classified.
Yes.
Amazing.
Okay, and now we have an email from Laura who says, thanks for all the wonderful work you both do.
With your guidance, my baby has continued to sleep through the night since she was nine weeks old.
That's wonderful.
She's been on a consistent two-nap schedule one hour in the morning and 45 minutes in the afternoon, and then eight till 630 overnight, since she turned six months, with a 12-hour 15-minute sleep need.
In the past week, however, I think she's showing signs of being ready to drop a nap.
She's taking 10 to 15 minutes to self-settle rather than the usual one or two minutes, is finding it hard to settle for her second nap and bedtime is pushing later.
But there's no extra wakes overnight yet.
So Laura's question is, can we drop to one nap at 11 months old or is this too early?
There are some babies.
Every now and then we will come across the baby that is just so ready at 11 months of age.
But I would always say, if they're not yet 12 months, your first step is to try for two short naps and see if you can get them to keep those two naps a little bit longer.
So in Laura's case, they're having an hour in the morning, 45 minutes in the afternoon.
It could be probably the sleep cycle is 45 minutes long, I'm guessing.
So it might just be two 45-minute naps and see how that goes.
Or, you know, if the sleep cycle is shorter, it might be two 30-minute naps even.
Yeah.
Just see how that goes, and if you're not getting any luck and your baby is just so ready for one nap, then follow their lead and do it.
And it's so lovely for that beautiful feedback, Laura.
I know I've heard from Laura a few times and it's always a pleasure.
So yes, hopefully you get through to make that move to one nap and then they stick on one nap for so long.
You know, you really get to just settle into that new rhythm, don't you?
It does all feel a bit easier at that point.
Yeah, it sure does.
Excellent.
And lucky last is from Kim, who has a 12-month-old boy and, like Laura the last Laura is wondering if he needs to drop down to one nap.
He seems to sometimes fight his naps but will end up going to sleep.
He naps at 10 am and 2 pm and he's only napping for 30 to 40 minutes for his morning nap and he's sometimes tired and grumpy after this.
He also doesn't seem as tired as he used to be for the morning nap.
He goes down to bed around 745pm to 750pm, is awake around 7am and his sleep needs are around 13 hours.
His bedtime used to be 720pm or 730pm, but recently they've been putting him down later as he doesn't seem tired and will fight it.
If they drop to one nap, could it take him a while to consolidate his nap into a couple of hours?
Hmm.
Yeah, I would say Kim, he probably is ready to go down to one nap, because both of those naps now are already short, that your 12-month-old is on.
So there isn't any wriggle room there like there is for Laura's son or daughter, sorry.
So I would be looking at... making that move.
So, in terms of how long it's going to take, simply by pushing that first nap, which is currently at 10, trying to push it closer to 11, first of all, it's just going to mean that his sleep pressure is that much higher when he goes down for the nap, which means he's more likely to link that sleep cycle.
So usually we see that babies start to have a longer nap.
So consolidating the two short ones within a week, normally within a few days.
So, first of all, if he continues to only have one sleep cycle, for that one nap that you're moving him to, you can either bring bedtime earlier or you can use the power nap option and then trying again the next day.
But it sounds like he's ticking a lot of those boxes.
Kim that um, that transition is now upon you and, like Fallon just said, for Laura it does get much easier once they're just on the one nap.
So good luck, Kim.
Let us know how you get on.
Yeah, good luck to all the parents who have written in.
Thank you for your beautiful feedback and really interesting questions as well.
I know it helps so many parents who tune in to the podcast.
Um, don't forget, sunbell is, as at the time we're recording, it is on sale.
Um, we have.
We try, and you know, discount it when we can, because we know it's super tough with the cost of living going up and up and up at the moment.
So if you're needing support, do check it out.
There's some pretty good specials to be had.
Um, there's also the night waking master class too.
So if you're struggling with overnight waking, do go and check that out.
It's part of the sunbell membership.
Please buy us a coffee if you're able to.
Oh, there was someone who bought some the other day and I was going to look up who it was and give them a big thank you.
Laura, how fast can you Google that?
Let me have a look.
Coffee.
I think they bought five coffees.
Yeah, they bought us.
Which is just so lovely.
Emily.
Emily bought us.
Yeah, thank you so much.
She said, let me see, she says, so thankful for all the work you do.
Your approach was so accessible, generous and gentle that when I thought sleep deprivation was just something I had to accept,
Thank you so much.
Well done, Emily.
Yeah, thank you.
We really appreciate that.
That's wonderful.
We do.
Well, on that note, I've got to run and do the school run.
So let's wrap it up for this week and we'll be back again in a fortnight.
Thanks, everyone, for tuning in.
Thanks, everyone.
Bye-bye.
If you need help with your baby or toddler's sleep or settling, you need SOMBEL.
Sombell is Australia's first online pediatric sleep clinic program for babies and toddlers aged zero to three years.
It contains all the best resources from the sleep clinics at Infant Sleep Australia so you can rest easy and soak in your child.
To find out more, click the link in the show notes or visit sombell.infantsleep.com.au.
