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I have been listening to the Martha's Vineyard Beach and Book Club, which actually Elena recommended to me.
She did not listen to it, but she said, girl, this title sounds so you.
And let me tell you, it did. I've been listening to it while I walk, and I am absolutely loving it.
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I'm Ash. I'm Elena. And this is more bad. back and we're a death metal band now that actually hurts my throat and i couldn't do that that's a lot way to just shove yourself into the table and make everything move sorry rude not sorry who do you think you are We're back in our pod lab.
And I'm kind of sweaty. We're helter sweltering up here again.
I wouldn't say helter sweltering. I would just say like brief sweat.
Yeah. I'm like glistening. Low grade sauna.
Low grades, you know, glisten. Yep. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. I'm back in America. Yeah. Ash.
Hey. Had herself a little cruise. Yeah, it was so fancy.
Which, I know it sounds like we just cruise.
All the time, that's a thing we do, but both of us had never been on a cruise before these last two things.
Yeah. And we just happened to book our first cruises within a couple weeks of each other.
I actually didn't even book mine. Annie's parents brought us on a cruise.
See? Which is how I'm going to introduce our...
Special guest, it's Annie! Hello, everybody.
She actually doesn't want to be on the podcast, but I want her to be on the podcast.
I don't know if you can tell, but she's super sad.
She's been waiting her whole life for this moment.
Because I wanted to tell our story about going to Bermuda and snorkeling. and annie was there so i wanted her to be able to like shed some light on her experience i want to just talk about the turtles okay that's a different experience and you can't talk about that But there were turtles.
But nice try, though. No, the snort. The snort.
The turtles were not there when we were snorkeling.
But Bermuda has the most shipwrecks in the whole world.
That's wrong. I actually don't want you on the podcast anymore.
And I just like to remind you that my IQ is not that high.
And I don't retain information and I don't research.
You're really funny. Thank you. Thank you.
Anyways. So yeah, they have a lot of fucking shipwrecks, Annie.
A whole buttload of shipwrecks. Apparently not the most in the world.
I listened to the tour guide. I actually don't want you here at all.
Why did I invite you? This took a really dark turn.
And that was the end of their relationship.
But we went snorkeling in the Bermuda Triangle.
Which is awesome. And I've always wanted to go to the Bermuda Triangle.
We were like snorkeling up in the Bermuda Triangle and...
How many shipwrecks were there? Two? There was two.
And I would like to say that I am terrified of shipwrecks to bring in this... to why i'm here you're terrified of like things that are like submerged i don't like submerged objects the titanic underwater really terrifies me so i don't like shipwrecks I get that.
But you know what? I get that. She sacrificed it for our love.
What a woman. Okay, so we, like, cruise out there and the guy's, like, telling us all this stuff that apparently fucking Annie retained but I didn't.
And... So then they, like, tell you how to snorkel.
It's pretty straightforward. You get to wear flippers.
I was... Like, that was fun. I was living.
I was living my best mermaid life. And we dive in and one of the shipwrecks was just like... The boat wasn't there anymore, but it was carrying all these cement bags because it was from like...
What year, Annie? Oh, I don't remember the year.
It was like 18. So there was the one, the cement bags that had...
It was a wooden boat. Yeah, so it deteriorated.
Yeah, and the wood all drifted away. So it was like a phantom shipwreck. yeah but all the cement bags were still there and they like they kind of like morph yeah so I'm just swimming i so then there's another boat that was like a 250 foot steel boat I remember when I was like I don't see it and I see I literally get in the water and I just look down and see this huge boat underwater and my heart is like pounding and ash is like where's the boat No, because there's coral all over it.
It blends in. It's like camouflage. But then you look a little harder and you're like, oh, there's the fucking bow more on.
You look a little harder and you're like, there's Mike Pence.
Okay, that's a different story for another day, assholes.
This is what happens when Annie and Elena get together with me.
They just fucking... light up my spot this actually might be of note to some people because it's funny Well, we should begin by saying that Ash kind of mistakes any older white dude for Michael.
I'm just on the lookout for Mike Pence because I know he wants to fry the gays.
Yeah, she's scared. I'm scared. Honestly. you should be too you're smart but you always say it in like a monotone voice and you're like Is that Mike Pence?
Because in disaster situations, you're supposed to remain calm.
You're just on the lookout for your greatest enemy.
Is that Mike Pence? But it's literally any older white dude.
She's like, that must be Mike Pence. Anyways, I was living.
Annie's just like floating above the water, but I'm like face deep.
I'm like, hold my noodle so I can dive deeper.
Hold my noodle. They made you have noodles and I was pissed.
I mean, yeah. they don't want you floating down into the shipwreck I wanted to getting engulfed in the Bermuda Triangle that's exactly what I wanted I know.
Every day that we were on the cruise ship, I contemplated how much trouble I would get in if I jumped off just because I wanted to swim in the water. probably a lot of trouble uh physiologically yeah no i know that but like you know i think your internal organs might you know how your body just like wants to do the things that no it's not supposed to yeah because it's like some primal weird thing yeah no it's a thing yeah and every day I would just be like over like the balcony and be like I could jump off right now I actually, that's weird that you had that thought because I'm more, you had that thought like I'm going to be this graceful mermaid that just dives into the water and lives among the fish.
Yeah. But I would stand on the balcony and I'd be like, what if I just uncontrollably threw myself over here?
And then I would die and it would be awful and I'd drown.
Like, I had these awful nightmarish thoughts of the water.
You don't know that, though. You could have turned into a mermaid.
You were going to be Ariel and, like, sing about part of your world.
I don't know if anybody would want me to sing in the ocean I would want you to sing in the ocean I was just living my best life Here's my other story.
So my nose ring, and Annie can attest to this, I almost fucking cried.
My nose ring is very special to me and I'm going to make you cry a little bit because we got them done together.
Aww. Like my first nose piercing. I still have my same one.
Like my little nostril stud. It's really fucking special to me.
Because I was like 18 and we went together.
Oh my god. Yeah. Anyways. And it was like my first piercing.
Kind of my first piercing. We'll go with that.
Yeah, we'll go with it. I realized on the sunset cruise where we were with Annie's family that I didn't have my nose ring in.
And I was like, I lost my fucking nose ring in the Bermuda Triangle.
Can I just say that everyone was very confused because you weren't being clear as to which nose ring it was?
Because Ash has two. Because multiple of my family members came up to me and they're like, is Ash okay?
Like, her nose ring is still... Wait, did they really?
Yeah, they're like, she still has her nose ringing and I was like, no, it's the other one.
Is she having a moment? Has she had too many rum swizzles?
Does she have an emergency contact? My nostril piercing, not my septum piercing is the one I lost.
So my nostril piercing. I thought it was gone and then I'm sitting there and I'm like I have this vision because I'm a white witch and I'm like, okay, maybe I'm gonna get home or like back to the cabin and it's gonna be like on The little vanity where I get ready.
Like, I feel like it's going to be there.
I fucking get back. To the cabin. And my fucking nose ring is on the vanity.
Are you shitting me? It was fucking there.
And I was like. That's bananas. I just believe that like the Bermuda Triangle like spit it out, but then realized how sad I was.
And Annie's mom definitely thinks I'm like a psychopath. no you know what i think that's exactly what i think that's what happened i think the bermuda triangle is fucking with me because the catamaran cruise was also in the bermuda triangle yeah So I had been in the Bermuda Triangle twice that day.
This was pure Bermuda Triangle. Yeah. Is that really hard to say?
Does anyone else have trouble saying Bermuda Triangle?
I think I just love it so much that I can say Bermuda Triangle, Bermuda Triangle, Bermuda Triangle.
Yeah, I can't do that. that I can barely say it once I'm like Bermuda Bermuda Bermuda Bermuda Twangle But yeah, so that was my trip to the Bermuda Triangle.
I did a lot of other stuff. I went jet skiing.
Annie swam with turtles. Pretty cool. But yeah, go on vacation.
That's the last of our vacations for like ever.
So you'll never have to be without us again.
Cause yeah. We got it all out of the way in the months of June and July.
Yeah. Goodbye, everyone. bye annie we've just we've just sent her to her corner on the floor yeah she just falls asleep when we're podcasting blankets on the floor She's now been relegated to.
But yeah, everybody, that's my bae. The town of Agde in France is famous for sun, sand, sea and sex.
But lately, life on the coast has taken a strange turn.
The town's mayor, a respected pillar of the community, has been arrested for corruption.
His wife claims he's been bewitched by a beautiful clairvoyant.
Then there's the mysterious phone calls that local people have been getting.
I am the Archangel Michael. The whole town has been thrown into chaos.
As the mayor is unable to carry out his duties, I would like to address you all.
Legal proceedings have been initiated. Join me, Anna Richardson, and journalist Leo Schick for The Mystic and the Mayor as we investigate a story of power, corruption, and magic.
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So tonight's case is kind of a fun little unsolved mystery, and by fun I mean tragic and awful, but... Yeah, super fun, good times... fun like spooky and there's a lot of theories the theories are like the most fun part And what's fun is that I might have an autopsy later.
So we'll get through this. So tonight's topic is the mysterious disappearance. of the Sodder Children.
Whoa! Do, do, do, do. I'm going to give you a brief little overview and then we'll get into some, you know, some of the like real details of this whole thing.
The deets. So the Sauter children disappearance begins 1945, Christmas Eve.
Yes. Holidays and shit. It's, like, supposed to be cheerful.
You know. Like, deck the halls with balls of holly.
What is it? It's like nothing was stirring in the house.
Except for a blazing fire. Spoiler alert.
Yikes. So this is in Fayetteville, West Virginia.
Parents George and Jenny Sauter had nine children.
Too many. Too many. One might say too many.
Far too many children. They actually had ten children, but nine of them were in the house.
Because their oldest child was away in the army.
And I looked everywhere and you cannot find this child's name.
That's really weird. It's weird. But nine of their children were in the house.
They were awoken in the middle of the night by a fire.
And George and Jenny got out of the house, along with four of their children, two-year-old Sylvia, 17-year-old Marion, 23-year-old John, 16-year-old George Jr.
They all got out of the house. Now, I don't know if you guys know math.
But that's not nine kids. There are five left in the house.
There are five who did not come out of the house.
Quick mental math. The five that did not come out of the house were 14 year old Maurice, 12 year old Martha, nine year old Louie or Louis, nine uh eight-year-old jenny and five-year-old betty oh five is so no five is like really that would get you Yeah.
In your heart. So the five children that didn't come out of the house shared two bedrooms that were upstairs.
Mm-hmm. So in the end of all this, the house burned down, and those children, no one knew what the fuck happened to them because no remains were found.
So that's the basis of this. Right. So that's crazy.
That's just a sad story. So to go back, George Sauter, he immigrated from Italy to Fayetteville when he was 13 years old.
Oh shit. Um, He came over as Giorgio Sodu.
That's my name. Or something close to that.
And then he, you know, got changed to George Sauter because that's what we do here.
We change your name into an American name.
We change your cool-ass name. Yeah, your cool-ass Italian name into an American name.
It's a great system. When he arrived in Fayetteville, excuse me.
He met and fell in love with Jenny Cipriani.
Oh, another Italian, right? And yeah, sounds Italian, right?
Cipriani for sure. For sure. They actually had a total of 10 children together.
And like I said, the oldest was in the army and in Fayetteville. there was actually a really tight-knit and active Italian immigrant community.
Most people around the town respected George You know, he was a good dude.
He was pretty chill. They were a middle class family.
George was very active in this Italian community.
But he was also pretty vocal. Which is never a good idea.
I mean... It's a good idea. Just be quiet.
Speak your mind. Like, you know, speak up.
Yeah. But, like... Know your audience. Yeah, just know your audience.
So he was very vocal about a lot of things.
Like, people knew he had opinions. Mm-hmm.
But his one thing that he was like really, really vocal about was his disdain for the Italian prime minister slash fascist dictator Benito Mussolini.
Benito. In case you don't know who Benito Buscellini is.
Buscellini or Mooseley? Mooseley. Sorry, I'm having a moment.
I was like, am I? I was like, you mean Mike Pence?
It's Mike Pence, essentially. so i mean this guy was a fascist and he was just a really bad guy he was uh he had a lot of super loyal followers okay kind of like someone else you might be able to think of like rings i'm not gonna name any names So, Benito Mussolini was actually executed along with other members of the fascist movement two days before Hitler and his girlfriend Eva Braun. before they committed suicide. so on April 29th 1945 Mussolini's corpse was loaded into a van in the middle of the night and brought south of Milan where they dumped him on the ground at a a place called the... Italian names, man.
Piazzale Laredo? Piazzale Laredo. I like it.
Yeah, that's way better. Pizza. Pizza. super stereotypical it's okay This place was the site where 15 antifascists were executed recently, so it was kind of fitting that they threw him there.
Alright. His corpse was kicked and spit on by the crowd, and then it was hung upside down from the roof of an Esso gas station, where it was then stoned by the crowd as well.
Shit. He was then buried in an unmarked grave in Mussoco Cemetery north of Milan.
So he was a bad guy. Guess so. Sounds lit.
You know, you don't just do that to anybody.
Eh, you know. So yeah. wild so but again he had people that you know believed that the fascist movement was the way to go Unfortunately.
I don't think it was though. George did not agree with this.
So... George eventually ran a trucking company of his own that took off pretty well.
Again, they were like a solid middle class family.
Before this, though, he worked for a man named Fiorenzo Giannitolo. who strongly disagreed with George's views on Mussolini.
Oh, good. Despite these differences, the two of them actually seemed to remain like be pretty close. even after George left the company to start his own company.
So when he left that company, he had a $1,500 mortgage insurance clause that was payable to Fiorenzo Giannitolo.
What does that mean? So like if something happened to the house and the family, like he would get the payout.
Oh. Yeah. But only $1,500. But again, back then... That was probably a lot more.
It's not super a lot, but... so allegedly janetolo increased this to 1750 dollars without the solder's approval or knowledge And he actually ended up with the payout after the fire.
Even though George didn't die? Yeah. Because it was signed over to him.
It was a clause. Oh, shit. Yeah. What a stupid clause.
Right? So according to the fire marshal's report, 60 days before the fire, Giannatolo actually attempted to trick George into signing an additional life insurance policy on top of the other insurance.
Oh, damn. That seems pretty spooky. Yeah, spook, spook.
Like, come on. Now, when he was trying to trick him into buying this insurance policy, he got super pissed when they didn't want it And he actually yelled at George, quote, your goddamn house is going up in smoke and your children are going to be destroyed.
You're going to be paid for the dirty remarks you have been making about Mussolini.
What? Case solved. Who heard that? Like, I think we can leave now.
Yeah, and that was the case. The end. That was that.
He did it. Like, how did... What? And this is an unsolved case?
And this is unsolved. Because I think we just cracked the code.
I mean, maybe I'm using, like, my super advanced... you know, well-honed detective skills here.
I don't know Sherlock, I think. It seems like the case is solved as fuck.
Yeah. But... It's like when the villain in movies reveals their entire evil plan and you're like, why are you doing that?
This is like a Scooby Doo case. Yeah. Like, there's, like... There's, like, all you pesky kids.
Yeah, like, they're always... It doesn't make sense.
No. But anyways. It's still unsolved. We don't know.
I don't know. So, about a month before the fire, a stranger had showed up at the Sodder home inquiring about some hauling work.
So that's not too weird. What's hauling?
Especially in those days, like hauling stuff away.
Oh, like cleaning for them? Just like picking up shit and bringing it away.
Like, hey, I just want to pick up the shit at your house.
I just want to haul shit. Can I just haul your house?
Yes. And that was like a thing back then.
So it's just like cleaning. People would just show up and be like, can I haul some shit?
And you were like, no. Yeah, you can do that.
So... The 40s were a time. So this man... lingered around the back of the house where the two fuse boxes were located.
Don't like that. And he actually noted to George, these are going to cause a fire someday.
So that's weird. Because... And George was like, no, they're not.
Because... He had recently had the power company come to his house because I believe he was putting in like a new... fancy stove because again they were like making a little money yeah so he was getting that stove put in and because he's a smart guy he was like you know what while you're in here can you just make sure that all the wiring is like correct is like not gonna cause a fire yeah and so the power company came and looked at the shit and was like these wires are perfect everything's good So that's creepy.
Now, a couple of days before the fire, Two of the surviving children saw a man watching the younger Sauter children coming home from school on Highway 21.
Ew. Ew. In fact, that's what I wrote you.
I read it, but then I actually said it. Then you thought it.
So on the night of the fire, I'm going to let you in on the storyline of what happened that night.
I remember, I forget who did it, but I listened to a podcast where they covered this case and I was like, this is like a good movie.
It is. This would be a good movie. So on the night of the fire.
You know, Christmas Eve at 1230 a.m. The phone rang and Jenny answered it.
She heard a female voice who asked to speak to someone that she didn't know.
And she said in the background there was clearly a lot of laughter.
There was like glasses clinking like they were toasting in the background.
It looked like a party. And it's Christmas Eve, so you know.
So, Jenny said, you have the wrong number, and she hung up the phone.
Now, this would seem weird, but later they were able to track down this woman.
And she literally just had the wrong number.
Like, it was like she was at a party and just had the wrong number.
So there's nothing to that. But it's still, you know, part of the story.
Yeah. So while she was talking on the phone, she noticed that the lights were still on downstairs and Marion was asleep on the sofa.
Because what had happened was... Didn't she, like, let them stay up late or something?
Exactly. So she... It was Christmas Eve.
They had gotten presents, a couple of presents.
And I believe it was Marion, the 17 year old, was like working at like the five and dime.
And she had bought all her younger siblings toys.
And like surprised them with them. That's so nice.
They were all excited. And they asked their parents got tired, I think around like 1030.
And we're like, we're going to bed. And the kids were, the younger kids were like, you know, do we want to stay up?
And like, can we stay up? And the parents, Jenny and George were like, you can.
As long as you complete your chores before you go to sleep.
And turn off the lights, right? And the chores were to go outside.
I think it was like to feed the cows. something with the chickens you know it was just like that kind of shit but it was outside and then come back in and make sure you do stuff don't send them outside that way so just keep that in mind So again, and you know, so she noticed the lights were on downstairs.
Marion was asleep on the sofa. She locked the door, shut off the lights and went back to bed.
So just as she was beginning to fall asleep, she heard a loud bang on the roof, followed by something that sounded like it was rolling.
Now... like she just went back to sleep so if you hear something on your roof in the middle of the night just like a morbid podcast tip yeah it's like it's like how we tell you that fresh air is for dead people yeah things rolling on your roof are cause for alarm nothing good is banging around on your roof no you should definitely find the source of what's on your roof i just do something don't go back to sleep Just don't.
Yeah. Yeah. Just don't. Call a neighbor.
Yeah. What's on my roof, girl? What's on my roof, girl?
Hey, girl. What you doing? Look at my roof.
Come on in. Can you see my roof? do that anyways so minutes later she smelled and spotted smoke billowing into her room.
Awesome. Which is my worst nightmare. So she immediately woke George, ran and grabbed two-year-old Sylvia from her crib while screaming for her other children to get out of the house.
Marion, Jenny, George, and Sylvia ran through the front door, still screaming for everyone to leave.
23 year old john and 16 year old george jr ran out as well from their bedrooms upstairs and they were also screaming for the other kids to leave get out of the house as they were But they weren't there.
So they all waited for the rest of the kids to run out as well, but it wasn't long before George sprang into fucking super dad mode.
And decided to just save his kids himself.
Yeah. He was like, fuck this. So George had actually broke back into the house to try and bring out his kids.
Holy shit. He sliced his arm open on a bro- like he broke a window and sliced his arm open in the process.
Damn. And he was stopped at the staircase because the entire staircase was on fire.
My god. So, then he decided, okay, I know I have a ladder outside, I'm gonna get the ladder, I'm gonna go up to the second floor and I'm gonna get him.
Well, the ladder was fucking missing from the spot he literally always put it in.
Not normal. It was later found about 75 feet away from the home in a ditch.
Not normal. I mean, that says something.
So being the persistent human he is, which you will see later on, George Sauter is a very dedicated and persistent father.
Which, like, breaks my heart. Yeah, it does.
He had the idea to then use his coal trucks to park outside of the house and stand on it to climb up and get his kids.
Damn. But they were suddenly not starting.
Which didn't make any sense. They had worked perfectly only the day before.
Right. So, in desperation, he actually tried scooping water out of a nearby rain barrel, but it was frozen.
And he kept trying to enter the house. Ugh.
Now, the other thing is why the hell are there no reports of seeing these kids trying to get out of the house?
Right. Like, none of them came to the windows.
You didn't hear any screaming. Nothing. So they just laid in bed and silently turned to dust?
Nope. Nope. That's not how that works. So 17, while this is all going on, you know, the parents are going nuts.
Everybody's trying to get those kids. 17 year old Marion ran to the neighbor's house to call the fire department.
Unfortunately, the operator on duty was not on duty and did not answer.
There's just no one on duty. So Marion ran to another neighbor's house to call and they too could not get an answer.
What the fuck? So do you think somebody like, oh, sorry, paid off like the person to leave?
Well, it gets weirder. This second neighbor actually went into town to get the fire chief F.J.
Morris in person where he found him at a local tavern.
So the fire department was only 2.5 miles away from the Sauter home, but because the chief claimed he couldn't drive the fire truck without one of the other firefighters, And he was having to call them all to get into work.
They didn't get to the solder home until 8 a.m., which was seven fucking hours after the fire began.
So they must have been paid off. Something weird is going on.
Because that doesn't make any sense even for like...
I mean, 1940s. Something's weird. Yeah. I mean, the thing is...
It's all weird, but it was Christmas Eve, so they didn't have anybody on duty.
Right. And it was like a volunteer basis, so all that was going against them.
But still. Yeah, the whole thing is weird.
It's a weird, weird thing. So by the time they got there seven hours later, the house was gone.
Oh, it was? Yeah. Is that how fire works?
Yeah, that's how fire works. Oh, okay. Is that why we have firefighters on duty?
Just wondering. Yeah, that is. Oh, okay.
Cool. Glad we cleared that up. Glad we cleared that up.
Yeah. That's what they do. They fight fires.
That's what they're supposed to do. So, seven hours... of response time is not really a situation where like your PR people can spend that.
You know, they can't be like, we're reevaluating our response time and we're training our staff better for next time.
It's like, nope. You had one job. Yeah.
You're the keepers of the hoses. You didn't do it.
Straight up failure. Like, did the fire department get canceled after that?
Like, seven hours is unacceptable for takeout.
So it's definitely unacceptable for people coming to save you from a burning house.
Seven hours is, like, insufficient for many things.
Yeah, it's ridiculous. So... It's a full night's sleep for me.
Yeah, there you go. So once they got there, they looked in the ashes of the home for the remains of the missing kids.
And there were no remains. Nothing was found.
Boom, boom, boom. Ooh. I meant for that to be creepy, but I don't think it was.
It was just like a transition in Gilmore Girls. it really was bye i kind of loved it it was like the la la la la la la Are we going to get sued?
I love Gilmore Girls. Oh, Rory. Rory's the fucking worst.
That's another podcast. But she is the worst.
Fuck Rory. Worst, worst, worst. Fuck you, Rory Gilmore.
So the fire department didn't find any kids.
So they only investigated for two hours.
Not even the full seven it took them to get there.
No, exactly. You're like, yeah, nothing's here, bud.
It was suggested by the coroner's office that the cause of the fire was, quote, bad wiring in the house.
Which is pretty unoriginal. Yeah. Like, that's like, oh, there was a fire?
Probably bed wiring. Like, nope. F.J. Morris, the fire chief, also suggested that the fire must have been so gnarly that it just cremated the children.
Is that a direct quote? Direct quote. So gnarly.
No, that's not. That's not how like bones deteriorate, though.
Even if you light a bone on fire, it doesn't deteriorate.
No, and I'll explain all the science behind this.
Oh goody. Don't worry. My favorite part.
You know what he suggested? Like, what a guy.
He just got cremated. No, he was like, why don't you scoop some ashes up from the site and bury them like it's your kids.
Are you? Like, how crude. Like, fuck this guy.
Like, that's just crude. Like, fuck this guy. even weirder by the way like fj morris what the fuck maybe he i think he had he knew someone yeah theory a week later after the fire the coroner issued a death certificate for all five kids without any of the bodies Typical.
Yeah. So the only thing left of the house was the basement, basically.
And four days later, George had it covered with five feet of dirt as kind of like a makeshift grave slash memorial to his missing presumed dead children.
Oh my god. He actually intended to cover it with a garden or something beautiful for his kids.
I'm not okay. Like this guy. I'm not fucking okay.
Seriously, George Soderman. So, it wasn't long after the fire that George and Jenny started to think that their kids... probably didn't die in that fire and that they were actually kidnapped and not dead, like they had been told.
As smart people, they question why the fuck it took the fire department seven hours to get there.
NPR conducted an interview with retired fire chiefs Roy and Steve Cruikshank.
They were a father and son team that had been working in a close by area at the time of the fire.
They said that the Fayetteville department didn't even have sirens on their trucks at the time.
What? And no one was manning the station because of the holiday.
West Virginia Fire Marshal Sterling Lewis said in an interview that in 1945 Fayetteville firefighters didn't even have self-contained breathing apparatus. holy shit it would make it impossible for them to go into a fire without smoke inhalation So they literally couldn't go into that house to save the kids, even if they had gotten there in time.
Top notch. Awesome. Top notch. That's fucked up.
So. George and Jenny theorize that the fire was set intentionally as a diversion for a kidnapper.
Mm-hmm. This was partially due to the fact that George knew that wiring thing was bullshit.
And the ladder had it fixed. Exactly. So there was just too much that was pointing.
Like weird shit and the car is not starting.
He says he never heard his children cry out.
Yeah. So it's like that doesn't make sense.
Now. If the fire was caused by faulty wiring, then how were the lights still on in the house downstairs?
Oh, shit. If the wiring was faulty, there would be no power to the house.
Right. I know this because I asked my dad, who was an electrician.
You're kidding. And he confirmed that the lights would not be working if there was faulty wiring.
No, the lights wouldn't work. What do you think?
What? What? What? That's my dad. What kind of question is that?
So thank you, Dad. That night, an eyewitness said that they saw balls of fire being tossed onto the solder's roof.
They didn't fucking do anything about it.
Which could be what Jenny heard bang into the room.
Also, like, maybe you should tell someone that right away.
Ready? Another morbid tip. If you see balls of fire being tossed on some poor person's home.
Perhaps do something about it. Maybe call the police or something.
I don't know. Yeah, let somebody know. Then again, in Fayetteville, I don't know what would have happened.
Maybe they just would have been like, we're at the tavern drinking.
So, sorry. I can't. I'll actually I'll be there in like seven hours yeah we'll be there sometime don't worry you'll probably be fine So when the family returned to the scene later to pay respects at the memorial that George was creating, Sylvia, the two-year-old, found a hard rubber object in the yard.
George looked at it and believed that this object was a napalm pineapple bomb.
Excuse me, what? Napalm. Pineapple bomb.
Bermuda Triangle. Which were used in the war at the time.
Now these could be the things. Jenny was like, this is the thing that I heard hit the roof.
Yeah. And roll. Right. It fits perfectly.
Yeah. That shit makes sense. there's too much here this case is so spooky it really is it's like insane so the reports of the you know that makes the reports of the fireballs really credible Right.
The flames had also spread from the top floor to the ground, which contradicts the idea that the fuse box on the ground floor was responsible for the fire because they started from up top okay but cool let's blame the fuse box so like who thought that this really pissed mama jenny off And she started going science on this bitch.
Yeah. So she started experimenting by burning different animal bones. herself and found that all of them left identifiable remains of some sort yeah she could not get one to burn all the way to the to ashes Now this is when she spoke to a crematorium employee who told her that bones were left behind even when a body was burning at 2000 degrees Fahrenheit for two hours. hours which is not what an average house fire burn born Are you okay?
An average house fire burns normally at about 1,200 degrees Fahrenheit.
The solder home only burned for about 30 to 45
So it never would have. There would be bone fragments and shards at the very least.
Yeah. And that's being very, you know, generous.
Right. To further illustrate how bananas the idea of these children being burned to ash is the fact that household appliances were found intact among the... oh shit yeah so your fucking toaster is gonna survive but your kid's not no and also if five children had been cooked in that house then the smell would have been pungent as fuck.
Burning flesh smells like shit. And they would have smelled that shit all through town.
Right. If five kids were burning in there, like, come on.
Oh, that's horrifying. So, I did a little more research.
Just to make sure. Do you like to research?
I love research. Oh, you do? I really do.
People love that you love to research. I'm glad people love it.
Someone said that even I was good at researching.
They did. That was generous. His name is Max.
Max. Max. Thank you, Max. His IQ is also 11.
We loved that email. I was dying. So according to the Forensic Pathology Reviews, Volume 1, in the section Morphological Findings in Burned Bodies... I'm actually sleeping.
It states that even if high temperatures are applied for several hours, there will usually still be enough skeletal remains to allow successful determination of species, the body measurements, and the sex, as well as to identify skeletal anomalies and the presence of possible injuries.
So there would be a lot left. You just sounded official as shit.
I'm just saying. So that night and the following nights, there were sightings of the kids.
Uh-huh. So the first sighting was that night.
Christmas Eve. The fire night was... like the night that the fire happened yeah or christmas probably christmas day A woman said she saw the children driving by in a car while the fire was still burning.
So like, did she identify the driver? No, she couldn't see the driver.
They were looking out a window. Another sighting was 50 miles away from Fayetteville, a woman that ran some kind of like tourist stop. said that she saw the children the morning after the fire, Christmas morning, and she said, quote, I served them breakfast and they got into a car with Florida license plate.
Oh, damn. I just like stopped. I was like, plate.
With a Florida license. Plate. Plate. Pilates?
Another sign. Pilates? Yes. No. Florida license Pilates.
So in Charleston, West Virginia, in a hotel, a woman who worked there said she saw four or five children a week after the fire occurred.
She said... The children were accompanied by two women and two men, all who spoke Italian.
I do not remember the exact date. I tried to talk to the children in a friendly manner. but the men appeared hostile and refused to allow me to talk to these children.
I sensed that I was being frozen out. And so I said nothing more.
They left early the next morning. Okay. And they said that they showed up at like 1230 at night.
And then they left the next morning. So they were just like stop and click.
So a few years later, George actually saw a photo of New York City school children in a newspaper and believed that one of the kids was his missing daughter betty no i'm not okay he drove to new york to investigate I just got chills.
And actually track down the child's parents but they wouldn't talk to him.
Oh my god. Now George literally personally investigated every single one of these tips.
No. And he did at like throughout this story.
Every tip or any citing or any story or theory that we mentioned George personally investigated it.
Dude, because that's your fucking babies.
Five of your kids. And the youngest one was five?
Yeah. I mean, that's crazy. So this is around the time that they decided to hire a pathologist, which, you know, good on them because old timey coroners were not exactly like up to snuff.
Yeah. A lot of them were like elected officials.
Like they weren't even doctors. Good. Yeah.
It's changed now. I'm not going to down corners or anything.
But the pathologist back then was Oscar B. Hunter.
And this guy actually excavated the dirt that was on the site because he was, you know, like... doing his job like one of the only people that's nice that's doing his job uh he ended up finding four pieces of human vertebrae Which is crazy.
He sent those pieces to the Smithsonian Institute to be tested.
Okay. They thought that the bones appeared to be four lumbar vertebrae with fused transverse recesses.
Which translates in English to... I'll explain.
So, from what I've seen, this was reported back as confirming that the bones belonged to a 16 or 17-year-old person.
But I didn't think that was right. So it's kind of false from what I... Kind of false.
You see... These were lumbar vertebrae.
You have five vertebral bones in your lumbar region that make up your sacrum.
Which is what? lumbar sacrum where fucker right above your butt oh my buttocks now these bones like like a lot of bones in your body They start to fuse once you stop growing.
They start to fuse. Yeah, like they start to fuse.
So it couldn't have been a 16 or 17 year old.
So this happens anywhere from 16 years old to 23 years old.
That's when they start to fuse? Not 16 to 17.
They gave a very small... They were like, well, this must be a 16 or 17-year-old.
And it's like, nope. This can be a 23 year old.
They wouldn't have been fully fused. Yeah.
It could be. Oh. But it's... They gave a very small window of what...
Like, they were like, this has to be a 16 or 17 year old.
And it's like, no, it's a 16 to 23 year old.
So, like, don't tell them it's a kid. They just wanted a quick answer.
Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, our clavicle bones don't fuse until like 26 years old.
That's these, right? Yeah, your collarbones.
They fuse? Yeah. A lot of your bones fuse.
Like, these two go together? No. Do mine look like they go together?
No, that's why I was hella confused. What do you mean they fuse?
What the fuck? The bones fuse. I'm lost.
Yeah, it's okay. So it's entirely possible that these vertebrae belong to a young adult in their early 20s even.
Okay, so it wasn't anybody's vertebrae. Not to mention that the oldest missing solder kid was 14-year-old Maurice.
So even if it was a 16 or 17 year old, it's really not happening.
Yeah, fuck that theory. They also determined that the bones had definitely not been in a fire at all.
So why were they there? They said that the bones had probably come from the dirt that George had got to cover the site.
So they were like, yeah. So there's somebody else that died.
Somebody else is dead in that dirt, but...
Great. And this was all before DNA was used, so the bones were given back to George, and now no one knows where they went.
Oh. I mean, it sucks because if we had them now, we could DNA test them.
He lost them? Nobody knows. he lost them how do you lose bones maybe he didn't lose them maybe he died with them in a box somewhere Yeah, no, I believe that he did.
He was, like, after everything. Yeah. So after this all happened...
The governor, Oakey L. Patterson. Same's legit.
Called a hearing in the state capitol building in Charleston, West Virginia. and officially called a close to this case.
Liar. He literally told George and Jenny that their search for their clearly abducted children was hopeless.
That's nice. The Fayetteville County prosecutor said that it would only be reopened if evidence of kidnapping came to light.
So like all the tips. Kind of seems like it already has.
Yeah. I don't know. So he ended with saying, quote, something is haunting this family and I would do anything to put their minds at ease.
I think what's haunting this family is the fact that their fucking five children disappeared in thin air.
And you're closing the case. Maybe that's haunting them.
In 1947, George actually tried to get the FBI involved.
J. Edgar Hoover himself contacted George back and was like, Totally.
Good. We will help you because this is shady as fuck.
Hell yeah. But because this is falling under, quote, local character...
We need to get permission from your local authorities to step in.
And they wouldn't? Well, the Fayetteville Police Department and the Fire Department declined their offer to help.
Okay, well, they're dicks. So there's no reason to do that unless you're guilty of covering something up.
Now, another interesting bit was the night of the fire, an eyewitness recalled that they saw two recognizable men. stealing the block and tackle crane, which is like the hook thing that normally is used to lift engines out of cars.
From the Sauter residence. Oh. Now, these two people were...
These two people were identified as Dave Atkins and Lonnie Johnson, who are owners of a nearby beer place.
Okay. Only Lonnie was ever questioned because Dave peaced out to the army to avoid prosecution.
Good. Lonnie said he cut the phone lines that night.
Because he thought they were power lines.
So how is that better? Why did he cut them?
Did he say why? I don't know. probably i have they didn't ask that fucking question that's very very inept authorities here to be quite honest also the power lines were 14 feet up in the air so how the hell did he get to it So people were like, did he steal the ladder?
Yeah. But he didn't say anything. So Lonnie ended up pleading guilty to a stealing charge and paid a $25 fine.
You're fucking kidding me. officials definitely admitted later that Lonnie and George's old employer who we talked about before Fiorenzo there who got the money after the fire those two were not investigated enough.
Like the authorities, like officials now are like, yeah, they should have been looked at more.
Yeah. So they definitely could have been involved.
Some of the tips that came in around this time, because they started getting tips all the time now.
Probably a lot of bullshit. Um, some people around town believe that the mafia was involved and some believe that the children were taken back to Italy where they were sold to an orphanage.
That's horrible. The family actually received a letter from a woman in St.
Louis that claimed that the oldest daughter Martha was in a convent there.
The fuck? Someone in Florida also claimed that they were now living with Jenny's distant relatives in Florida.
Why wouldn't her distant relatives call her?
Exactly. And another tip came from Davenport, California where the sheriff received a letter saying that one of the Sauter children was attending school in the city.
No staff at any of the schools knew of this at all.
And we're like, no, we have no idea who that is.
All class photographs were checked and it was revealed to be bullshit.
Why call in and waste your fucking time?
That's horrible. You're a shithead. You're a real shithead.
George investigated all of these tips. Oh my god.
Seriously, like dad power. People are the worst.
Literally. Now, John Sauter, the oldest son.
Came back from the army. Not the oldest son, but the oldest son that was...
In the house at the time. Oh, not the army one?
No, the oldest, the oldest son. Like, you never hear it from him again.
I don't know where he went. He was just armying somewhere.
Okay. So John started the 23-year-old son.
Mm-hmm. He hypothesized that if his siblings were kidnapped, then maybe he agreed that they were taken to Italy, where George was from.
Okay. especially due to the hotel story with the Italian speaking adult, like that one, he was like, that's gotta be it.
Why? We don't know. Maybe it was because George said stuff about Mussolini and so it was revenge, but it's all kind of...
That's some fucked up revenge. Yeah, and everything's super jankily put together, these theories, but like some of them make sense, some of them don't. yeah pieces of them make sense pieces of them don't it's like the one thing that doesn't make sense at all is that they burned in the fire Yeah, that didn't happen.
So this one's pretty interesting. In 1968...
A tip came in 23 years after the fire. This contained a photograph and was sent specifically to Jenny.
There was no return address, but it had a Kentucky postmark.
The photo was a man that was in his mid-20s And George and Jenny immediately were like, that's our son, Louie, who was nine at the time when he disappeared.
Same features, dark curly hair, brown eyes.
Same nose, like long nose and slightly tilted left eyebrow.
And if you look at the pictures, I'll put them up on the Instagram page.
This picture, the photograph, and the picture of Louis when he was nine.
Is, like, undeniable. It looks like it could definitely be him grown up.
And what did it say? There's like little features that you're like, that is the exact same feature.
Okay, what did it say? So the note was on the back of the photo and it was weird as fuck.
It said, Louis Sauter. I love brother Frankie.
Ill ill boys. A90132 or 35. What? Exactly.
So... Did they have a brother, Frankie? No.
So they were like, what the fuck is this?
But they were nervous that releasing the photograph to the police would put their son in danger.
Yeah. So they hired a private detective to go to Kentucky to try to find where this came from.
Holy fuck. Well, the fucking detective went missing.
No. Yeah. He vanished with their money. So they don't know if he took their money and just... took off or if he literally went missing but no one ever heard from him again.
I just got chills. Right? Like, hi, I need a PI to find my PI and also my kids.
Literally. And then it's like, if he took the money and just ran, like, fuck him.
And also, it's like, how much money did you get?
Like, he's just like, what? Like, that's a weird thing to do.
I don't know. That seems fishy. So I don't know.
There are thoughts that the numbers on the back corresponded to zip codes in Palermo, Italy.
Which makes a lot of sense. So, George and Jenny were, again, steadfast parents.
And George was quoted as saying at this time, like in the late 60s, he said, time is running out for us.
If they did die in the fire, we want to be convinced.
Otherwise, we just want to know what happened to them.
Oh my god. So they were still just like...
Like, I need answers. So this is when, I mean, they were definitely losing faith in authorities and law enforcement helping them at all.
And in response to all the bullshit, George and Jenny set up a billboard on Route 16... that had photos of their missing children and a message with all the available information, including mentioning how it was a miscarriage of justice, that someone was clearly lying.
Yeah. And it stayed put for more than 40 fucking years.
Oh my god. They kept that billboard up for 40 years, over 40 years.
They even passed out flyers similar to the billboard. and offered a $10,000 reward for any information leading to the discovery of their kids.
That's a lot of money now. That was a lot of money back then.
Yeah. Yeah. So I put a picture up of the billboard on the Instagram, but this is what it says.
It says, on Christmas Eve 1945, our home was set afire and five of our children, aged 5 through 14, kidnapped.
The officials claimed defective wiring, although lights were still burning after the fire started.
The official report stated that the children died in the fire, however.
No bones were found in the residue and there was no smell of burning flesh during or after the fire What was the motive of the law of?
Law officers involved. What did they have to gain by making us suffer all these years of injustice?
Why did they lie and force us to accept those lies?
All on the billboard. I literally have goosebumps.
Like, look at my leg. Like, what badass motherfucker.
Holy shit. Like, they were like, fuck. you guys yeah this is bullshit my entire bod is covered in goosebumps like damn homes i love it i love it So, at this time, this is when they turn to another private investigator named Cece Tinsley to help them.
Fuck yeah. That's a name. Like that's a private investigator name.
Now this motherfucker found out from a member of the coroner's jury who helped to decide.
Now this is a member of the coroner's jury were the people that helped determine the cause of the fire right these people determined that it was faulty wiring He, this guy that he talked to that determined it was faulty wiring.
Got paid off. Was one of the fucking life insurance salesmen. know yeah that basically the one that went with uh what's his name there fiorenzo yeah went with him to try to sell this shit So he just wanted the money.
So it seems like he might have a motive here.
Right. So he also talked to the fire marshal, Sterling Lewis, on scene.
And this guy said that he talked to everyone that sorted through that scene that morning, and they all said they found human remains.
But they didn't. So why did Chief F.J. Morris say that there weren't any found?
Darling Lewis. was like, oh, they were probably rushing because they took two hours normally in excavation after a house fire takes like days to weeks.
So he's literally like, they were just rushing and he must have been just not paying attention to the human remains that were found because...
Fucking, what was it? Five human remains?
Yeah, five human remains. Which would be a lot of remains.
Yeah. And very noticeable. So he, quote, thinks some remains, quote, may have been found that day, but shit, it was Christmas.
And... We were Russian. Okay, like, actually, big fuck you.
Like, gigantic fuck you. So this guy literally thinks that there was remains found, but he was like, things were kind of weird.
And like, I think it just got like swept under the rug.
Like, I don't know. No, I don't think so.
So, I also saw reported quite a bit that investigators were really looking carefully for remains especially internal organs because from what I've read everyone was like because they turn a bright shade of red when they're exposed to heat.
And they'll be noticeable among the ashes.
That's bullshit, too, because internal organs may be considerably reduced in size. when they're exposed to flame because of fluid loss and consumption by the actual fire.
Right. So they're not going to look like these plump, beautiful red... huge things that you're going to see floating around.
They're going to be like shriveled and fucked up.
Right. So that's bullshit. So because this wasn't lining up with what Morris had said, that he didn't find remains, Tinsley went searching for answers, so he found a minister that F.J.
Morris, the fire chief, who was super awesome at his job that night, clearly, told this minister in a confession that he had found a heart in the ashes uh-huh He said he put that fucking heart in a box and buried it where the house once stood.
I know this one, though. Tinsley actually convinced the fire chief to show him where this box was buried and dig it up.
But it wasn't a human heart. The heart he had actually buried was a fucking beef liver.
Yeah. I'm screaming. Like, what? Did he think it was a heart?
No, this beef liver had never been in a fire at all and was a beef liver.
So he bought beef liver at some store? I don't know if any of you have seen a liver...
And a heart side by side. They're completely different.
They don't look alike. So. Why the actual fuck did the fire chief of the town do this weird ass shit? said he thought that by burying that and saying that, you know, there was a heart and everything, it would provide closure to the Sauter family.
Yeah, the fucking beef liver didn't provide any closure.
Thank you. This is the weirdest shit. I have ever heard.
Yeah. And what I'm wondering is if he told this minister in this confession hoping that it would get back to the Sauter family and that it would...
It would basically save his ass. Yeah, that didn't work out, though.
And that's what... Because Sterling, he's still on his bullshit.
And he thinks... He thinks Morris made the liver, the whole thing up to save his ass for possibly losing or just not giving a shit about actual remains.
Right. Because Sterling is still pretending that there was human remains found there.
Like, girl, see yourself out. oh well Morris must have done that whole thing just because he knows he fucked up and he wanted to try to but none of that makes sense literally none of this makes sense like these officials are a bunch of fucking idiots and they think everybody else is idiots I'm, like, dumbfounded.
Yeah. So, unfortunately, in the end, all that remains are theories.
Some of the theories are as follows. One, two, three, four, five.
A local mafia attempted to recruit George and he wasn't having it.
So in revenge, they took his kids and lit his house on fire.
So people think that they lived out the rest of their days without saying anything because they didn't want... their family to get in trouble.
This one doesn't really make a lot of sense because why the fuck would they steal only five children and why would they get the children that were on the top floor? yeah and not the ones that were sleeping on the first floor right doesn't make sense Another one is that FBI records actually say that many believed the whole thing about Jenny's distant relatives in Florida.
Really? I think one of Jenny's brothers kidnapped the kids and took them to Florida.
But Jenny's relatives all took tests to prove that their kids were their kids, and they all passed.
Okay. So people also hypothesized that the kids were kidnapped when they went out late that night to finish their chores.
Right. Feeding the cow and the chickens and shit.
That makes sense. And that it had the fire happened after that.
And maybe by the people who... As a distraction.
George Sodder passed away shortly after this, you know, whole thing with the beef liver and everything. in 1969 and he was 74 years old.
Jenny lived much longer and spent her last days building rooms onto her home and adding fences around her home to keep everybody out.
She would only wear black clothing since the fire.
I'm not okay. And kept a flower garden around the spot of the fire.
Oh my god. And she like tended to it constantly.
She eventually passed away in 1989 at the age of 85.
It was shortly after her death that the billboard was taken down.
Which is so fucked up. They should have just left it there.
So Sylvia... was the two year old at the time.
She's the last remaining solder child. How old is she?
I don't know. How old would she be? It was 1945.
Oh. 1945. Hold on, I'll do it. She was two.
Keep going, I'll do it. I can't math. Sylvia is 100% certain that her siblings didn't perish in the fire.
And she says that although she was only two years old, the fire was her first real memory.
She says she can still remember her father screaming, bleeding, and crying for his kids. i think she'd be 75 that sounds good right now either 75 or 71 i like it Either way, she's still rocking around.
But she still remembers her father screaming and crying for his kids and bleeding from trying to get in the house.
That legitimately hurts my soul. Doesn't it?
Like my soul hurts. Now, Jenny Henthorne, who is Sylvia's daughter, told the Times West Virginian to post any information on Websleuths.com.
Oh, my God. she said quote my mom promised my grandmother that she would never let this story die That's what my brother and I are doing now.
I just got fucking chills for the 84th time.
I know. I'm gonna cry on my way home tonight.
Like, now Sylvia, the two-year-old's children, Jenny and George's grandchildren.
Yeah. Like Sylvia promised her mother that she would never let this story die.
Don't let it die. Don't let it die. Something happened to those kids, man.
But the problem is now that all the people that would even know are dead.
I know. It is a kind of a rough thing, but...
I don't know. I mean, some of those kids would be, could be alive.
Like super old though. Like a five-year-old?
Yeah, she'd be, like, in her late 70s, so she still could be alive.
You could still be rocking. That's actually super old.
Yeah. Damn. Wow. Wow. Wow. Like, at this point, like, just come out.
I know. Like, when you're super old. That's the thing.
I just don't know what the... But who knows, right, exactly why, like... It's a very bizarre story.
All I can say is, personally, I believe that they did not... die in that fire no do you think they got taken to Italy I think they might have I think that's like the most like plausible do you say plausible Is that wrong?
Plausible? Is it plausible? It is plausible.
Whatever. I think that's the most plausible, causable.
It might be the most plausible, too. Is that a word?
No. Eleven is my IQ. Is that Mike Pence?
I bet Mike Pence knows. I bet he does know what happened to those kids.
But I don't want to hear from him, so fuck that.
We're gonna get fucking red-lighted somewhere.
Oh, yeah. Great. I'm not gay. I'm not gay.
Oh, shit. So, yeah, that's the Sodder children disappearance.
Wow. Yeah. We want to hear from you guys.
What do you think happened? Yeah, I want to hear theories.
Because I know everybody's got a different take on this.
So, once again... I don't think they died in the fire.
No, they didn't. It was definitely a kidnapping in my opinion.
I'm not sure what kind of kidnapping, but it might seem like they are in Italy.
So that's my stance. I feel like that's also my stance.
So give me your theories. We want to hear them.
Hit us up. Hit us up. Call me. And also...
We are loving the messages, people. Yeah, it's going straight to my head.
Can't say it enough. They warm my cold, dead heart.
Mine too. My white witch soul. So keep them coming.
Play. And I'm not sure what we're going to do for next week's episode, but.
You know. Stay tuned. Stay tuned. Keep watching.
Suggest some shit. Maybe we'll take a suggestion.
Maybe. We've gotten a few. Perhaps. We've got a lot of good suggestions.
I just have to parcel through them and figure out which ones we want to do next.
Parcel. But we'll announce it in the next couple of days.
Yeah. I get to go in and perform an autopsy now.
I'm going to go home and go to sleep. We hope you keep listening.
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