Hi, welcome back to Eat Your Cress Podcast.
I'm G-Soo. I'm Crystal.
And I'm Chang-Way. Welcome back, Chang-Way.
The last time you were on, our podcast was episode 120 Jim Rats and Jim Noobs.
We're so happy to have you back to talk today about energizing hobbies and flow state.
Before we get into the flow state of it all, I guess we can start a little bit more generally by talking about hobbies.
So I feel like this is a pretty common small talk conversation topic that comes up.
Often times you are probably asked, oh, what are your hobbies or what kind of hobbies do you have?
So what are your go-to answers for that question?
Currently, I just say I like bouldering, mainly indoor bouldering.
And then after that, I don't really have much to say about it.
So maybe I include certain things I'm interested in at the moment.
Right now, I'm trying to pick up some sewing.
I'm kind of tired of paying 20 bucks just to get my pants hand or my shirt.
So yeah, those are kind of my go-to's right now.
I feel like those are pretty good hobbies to talk about.
I actually struggle with this sometimes, like answering what my hobbies are because I think it really depends on the context.
I don't know how niche I can get with hobby sharing potentially.
So sometimes I almost like poke and prod and see where the other person stands and how far of these hobbies can I go into.
So the default go-to hobbies.
I don't know, like watching TV if that counts as a hobby.
But I do think it's a good segue into just like talking about like, oh, what shows or movies are you watching lately?
And it's very friendly to the general population.
Yeah, it's an interesting one to answer for sure because I feel like it's hard to gauge what you can say to keep the conversation going.
Because in one sense, I am trying to share like, oh, these are my hobbies.
But on another level, there are certain hobbies that I could say and then it would just like kill the convo.
So then recently I was in a job interview and my interviewer asked me, oh, like what do you like to do outside of work?
And I kind of froze for a second.
I was like, oh, shit, like what should I say?
And what do I say to make me look like a good candidate?
So then I felt like I really wrapped my brain to think of holistic hobbies.
I'm like, what can I say to make myself look social fun, but also like indoor-z and intellectual?
So I just like listed out a bunch of shit that I do.
What did you say? I said something like I have recently been getting really into pickleball and golf, but I also like to have some chill days inside with friends playing board games or reading books.
And then based on what they were commenting on, I kind of dove deep or like, oh, she was like, oh, what kind of books do you read?
And then I was like, oh, these are the genres I like blah, blah.
But by tossing out like four options, I was like, okay, hopefully this like moves the conversation somewhere.
I feel like there's a couple that you two said that share a common theme, which is sports related stuff.
So pickleball, bouldering, because I feel like these are a little more universal.
It's like either you like sports or you don't.
So it's an easy answer of, oh, I know what that is.
And whether like I'm into it or not, especially if it's like a trendy sport.
I feel like, oh, my God, bouldering and pickleball are so popular.
But like personally, that's not really my thing.
I like this. And then I feel like that's a pretty good like conversation, continue or.
Yeah, another great thing about Jesus spread of hobbies is that it includes like both indoors and outdoors.
The person can really gravitate towards like, oh, I'm actually an outdoorsy person too or a sportsy person.
Or I like enjoying time at home doing these hobbies as well.
Do you ever get like, dude, I don't know how to describe this like almost like embarrassment of sharing your hobbies?
I think sometimes so like at work, I didn't mention that I like loved play golf for the longest time.
Because I was like, oh, God, what if they think it's like such a pretentious sport.
And then like they'll have some sort of judgment of me if I say like, oh, I also like golf.
It took me a while to like feel more comfortable and then be like, yeah, haha, I golf this weekend.
And it was so fun because I love golf.
I think I have felt slightly uncomfortable sharing or divulging certain hobbies, but maybe not so much like the pretentious aspect that I'm scared of.
But more so looking like an imposter.
I am not like to this day.
I am still very bad at golf.
And I am very much like a vibes person.
I like to show up, have fun, and then that's fine.
Like I don't really live or die by the score or anything.
But once I was talking to this coworker at work and I was like just starting to get to know this person because they were new to the company.
And we were like talking about our hobbies and stuff.
And I was like, oh yeah, recently I've been like golfing a little bit trying to hit the courses and whatnot blah blah.
And he was like, oh, I love golf.
I shoot like a 80 something like what's your handicap?
And I was like, ooh, my handicap is like extremely embarrassing to shoot.
Like I regret even saying that I golf in the first place.
So sometimes I do think at what point am I allowed to call something a hobby, you know?
Do you think you need to be good at something in order to call it a hobby?
I think to an extent, I guess I just assume that's how other people see hobbies.
Other people would not call something a hobby unless they were decent at it.
But that's not how I see it.
So then it's almost like a mismatch of expectations that makes me feel uncomfortable.
I'm like, oh, I don't care calling this a hobby because I don't need to be like level 100 at something to enjoy it.
But other people might judge me for saying it's a hobby when maybe to them.
I'm like such an amateur, like such a noob, you know?
I see. Dude, but I low-key feel like if you're a noob, that's like why it's a hobby.
Because you're not being competitive about it.
You're just doing it for the fun and enjoyment.
True. Yeah, that's true too.
Also, if you're like a straight up beginner, I feel like most people would phrase it more as a, oh, I'm getting into this thing rather than saying this is my hobby.
Yeah, I feel like it's something that I just have to get used to.
And I guess the other part too is like, who cares what other people think as long as you're fine, like comfortable calling it a hobby.
But I just sometimes fear the judgment of when that question comes back from someone who is truly serious about it.
And they're like, oh, what's your handicap?
And then you now have to expose yourself to the world.
Yeah, especially when they share the same hobby.
Right. I got kind of embarrassed all back in the day when I still did music.
And I was embarrassed when I share that I make music because I'm afraid of people pulling out their phone on the spot.
And they let me play it so hard.
And then I'll just die of embarrassment.
That's true. That is a scary one.
I mean, I think for Crystal and I too, like, podcasting is such a big part of our lives.
And when it comes up, like when this question comes up, I always see the option of like, oh, I could say that I'm a podcast host.
And then I'm like, oh, but then I have to do the whole explaining thing they might want to know what the name is.
And there's all these episodes in our catalog.
So I can definitely relate to that.
Oh my God. Yeah, I actually very rarely share about the podcast, especially if it's like meeting a new person just because I'm like, oh God, they're going to like listen to it.
And there was actually one time where I met someone who's like a friend of a friends and they listen to the podcast.
When we met, we were like chatting and all that and they're like, oh my God, I feel like even though this is our first time meeting face to face, I feel like I've cheated because I know so much about you because I listen to the podcast.
I think the other thing too is like, because we kind of touched upon this earlier, but I feel like so many activities are very associated with like a certain image.
And I feel like podcasting has like a very neutral to negative connotation.
That's true. That's true.
It's like every millennial has their podcast.
Yeah. So I'm like, I don't want to be like, oh, I have a podcast because I love this podcast, but I am fully aware that some people might be like, oh, you're like one of those people, you know, yeah.
I feel like maybe almost there's a bit of that with music too because I don't know if you feel this way, shame away, but I do feel like there was this wave of people around our age who would like get really into EDM and like raving.
And then suddenly everyone wanted to be a DJ and like make music and stuff.
And I feel like there's a bit of connotation behind that.
Yeah, I definitely feel that whenever I mention music, they're like, oh, so you DJ and then I have to clarify like, oh, no, no, I actually don't know how to DJ.
I'm just making music for fun.
You're like, I was an OG like I made music before it was cool.
Well, I do want to ask you guys because we touch on a lot of different hobbies that we have.
So how do you, I guess find these hobbies and commit your time and your life to well, not life, but like a little bit of your lifestyle to these hobbies.
That's a good question.
And honestly, I don't know.
Now that is like this question has been formed into words.
I'm like, how do we find hobbies?
I think one way that I can kind of pinpoint some hobbies is like, I go down some rabbit hole on YouTube.
And then suddenly I'm like learning all this info about a specific topic.
And then you know, it just seems so interesting.
And then I end up spending more and more time researching slash doing that thing until it becomes a hobby.
So one example is like keyboards.
There was like this huge wave of you know keyboard creators and like making the coolest nicest sounding keyboard, the cremiest keyboard or whatever.
And that's like definitely a YouTube rabbit hole that anyone can fall down into.
I had definitely found myself falling into that.
And that's kind of how I personally got into keyboards for a while.
Yeah, I can really resonate with that point.
I also did have a keyboard phase.
And I think a lot of my interests come from whatever needs I have in the moment.
So when I was moving to a new place, I wanted to revamp my setup.
So naturally I found a new monitor, new speakers outside of my keyboard.
So I was researching that.
And I found out about a mechanical keyboards and all the enthusiasts saying like, oh yeah.
I want that thochiness or I want that certain keycap.
I want a colorful or like just a really aesthetic looking keyboard and just going down that rabbit hole.
And back to the sewing point I initially said, yeah, it was out of more necessity.
I just didn't want to pay like 20 bucks to him.
I made the mistake of starting with him in my shirts, which is really floppy.
So I was really frustrated.
I would like him it will get caught on the machine and almost there the shirt was like not really beginner friendly.
But I think it gave me the skills to start any sewing projects I do want to start.
And again out of necessity.
I lost my climbing bag on a camping trip.
I left it on top of my car.
And I drove off without it.
And it fell on the freeway.
And it just it just gone.
So now I want to, you know, hopefully so a little climbing back.
It's pretty approachable.
But aside from like falling into rabbit holes, I also find a lot of hobbies from my friends.
I got a lot of my interest from Eugene actually shout out to him.
He got me into making music.
We had a skating phase during COVID too.
Yeah, I think just seeing friends and finding out about their interest really motivates me and find the passion into it because seeing them enjoy it kind of ignite something in me.
It's just fun when my friends can show me interesting things to get into.
Yeah, I can totally relate to that too.
I feel like a lot of things that I'm inspired by my life.
It definitely comes from like my close social circle.
So even some of the hobbies that I mentioned earlier, like golf, I grew up playing that with my family.
So then it was something that I kind of went back to because I had so many positive memories with it.
And then reading as well, my dad is a huge reader.
So crystal couple episodes ago, you mentioned that your brother was a huge reader.
And that's why you were inspired to read.
Same thing for me as well with my dad.
So I think a lot of things do come more naturally from seeing close people do it.
But one interesting thought that I had recently was I feel like after I started working, I realized that I needed to have some more like safer work hobbies in a sense like things that you could talk about like, oh, I did this last weekend.
That doesn't involve just being like, oh, I hung out with my friends.
So then I feel like pickleball definitely counts as one of those things.
I was like, oh, it's on the rise.
Easy access at my gym. And it just gives me something to like talk about work.
So I feel like it's something that I default to a lot when people are like, how is your weekend?
I'm like pickleball. Oh, my God, so true.
I feel like at work, Mondays and Tuesdays, the conversation I dread the most, like not even work itself.
It's like, hey, how was your weekend?
I'm like, oh, shit. I'm going to tell them I did nothing this weekend again.
Like, I know, I'm like, I can't say I binge 12 hours of love.
I live this weekend. Like I need something else to talk about.
Yeah, it's always a relief when I can say something like, oh, yeah, like my friends and I went and played pickleball or like it was someone's birthday.
So I want to celebrate it with my friends.
Like nice. I seem like I have a life now.
I work, do they ever ask you to share pictures of your weekend?
Like our team has been trying to do that to since most of our team is remote.
They want to promote more connection within the team.
So they just have like a thread of pictures.
And maybe that's where all the family people, family oriented people are posting the pictures.
But for me, I just can't get myself to share anything.
Or like it's not work-friendly to share.
Like if I'm going to the friends kick back, I can't really share those pictures.
You're like posting your win and VP exactly.
Wow, my work has definitely never asked us to do that.
But we do have like hobby slack threads.
And then there's like a gardening channel and like a pet's channel and stuff.
And people always post photos of their life.
And I'm always like, wow, I don't know.
What will it take for me to one day feel comfortable enough to do that?
You know what I mean? Yeah.
I think when my team asks for photos, the most is usually when someone goes traveling.
And then you know, they take like a week off or something.
And then it's like, share pictures while you're gone.
Or like share pictures of your pets.
You know, those are like the two most common picture requests.
That's a tough one though, because some people I feel like I don't take a ton of photos myself, but my husband James, he like rarely takes photos.
Like if you go on his photos app on his phone and scroll once, it's like 2018 already.
Like that's how you photos you take.
So I'm like, then you have to remember to take pictures at these things, you know?
Oh my God. Yeah. So like one time I went on a trip and it was a solo trip too.
And I was like, oh my God, my team has been asking.
Don't forget to take photos.
And I was like, okay, like I will have to make it like an effort to take photos.
When normally I'm like not the type of person to take photos, let alone photos of myself.
That's like the biggest thing I don't do.
And then usually it's like if I am traveling with friends, then they'll take the photos.
So this time I was like, oh my God, like I actually have to be like, okay, that looks cool.
I guess I can take a photo of it just so I can share for my coworkers.
Dude, I'm just imagining your camera roll is just like screenshots of your train tickets and shit.
Oh my God. No actual. Wait, that would have been genius.
Oh my God. But I do kind of want to ask you guys about the idea of a hobby portfolio, which I think I kind of briefly alluded to earlier.
I feel like every hobby can be categorized into an energizing hobby or a relaxing one or a creative one or maybe even a social one.
So do you guys like to kind of vary out your hobby portfolio to land in each category or is this not something you like naturally think about?
Personally, it's not something I'm consciously doing, but I do see a benefit of having that.
For example, when I used to work out and make music, those were my primary hobbies.
It was like really tiring after work, especially for music, the technical aspects and creative aspects.
It was really draining when my brain was already like ready to turn off and right after work, especially when I wasn't remote, the traffic back was really tiring, even though it was only like maybe a 30 minute commute, then going to the gym, I probably need a nap before I do that or take some rework out.
And after that, I probably want to relax, but I would also feel guilty not doing something because I only have so many hours before the next work day.
And since my hobby was making music, I was physically drained and mentally drained, so I just didn't get much done during those periods of time.
So having like a relaxing hobby would have really benefited that period.
But sometimes like hobbies can double as like both social and energizing, like working out can be energizing if you're with friends, you're hyping each other up.
You're also working towards the goal you set for yourself.
So I think having those combinations is really great.
And I think currently climbing does that for me.
I can hang out with my friends.
We can talk about the problem or even catch up during that time.
Or sometimes we just want to lock in and get the send and just be super concentrated, just climbing well.
Yeah, that's a good point.
I do feel like a lot of hobbies can be multipurpose like you mentioned.
I don't know if this is just me, but sometimes I struggle a little bit with social hobbies because you mentioned that there are times where you just want to be quiet and focus.
And then other times it's more of like a social thing.
And these two things can happen around the same hobby with the same people.
It just depends like on the day.
But for me, I feel like sometimes I want to socialize and sometimes I don't.
And then if I have to be around people when I don't want to socialize, I'm like, oh my god, like this is like super draining in itself.
So I feel like even with my social hobbies, for example, like playing board games.
Sometimes I literally just buy like the board game app on my phone and then just like play it by myself.
And it's like super relaxing to me.
So I guess in a way, it's indulging in different aspects of the same hobby.
I think you're both right in that like you can change up a hobby.
And one of the easiest factors is, you know, adding people into it suddenly, you know, this workout isn't just an internal thing.
It's like a social thing now.
And it's like because of that, maybe a little more energizing board games slash like games.
You could definitely play something by yourself, but you could also add the element of friends and that kind of changes the vibes of it.
I guess in the idea of the hobby portfolio, I don't necessarily separate them into like what is the relaxing hobby?
What is the energizing hobby?
I think I almost separate it more like what is the solo hobby versus what is the like social hobby?
Yeah, so interesting like the more we talk about it, because I'm realizing that each of my hobbies can be both solo or group and then also can be like energizing or relaxing.
For example, if you want to be social while playing golf, you go play a course with your friends.
But if I want to be like in my solitude era, I think I could just go to the range by myself.
Or even for reading, I feel like that's very much classified as like a stay at home and enjoy book on the couch kind of a hobby.
But I also have a book club where we like to meet up and have a fun night together while like discussing the book we read recently.
So I guess it's not so much like a hobby portfolio, but more of like knowing what you can take and what kind of benefits you want from each hobby, depending on the day and the mood you're feeling.
Yeah, that's a good point.
Do you have any hobbies where it's purely just with people?
Because right now it just sparked a thought in my head.
I wouldn't consider any of my current hobbies a hobby if I wouldn't enjoy it doing it alone.
I guess like pickleball would be considered something that I would not be able to do by myself.
I think there's like a good one.
Yeah, like net set ups or like wall set ups or something where you can kind of do it.
But I think the nature of the sport you do kind of have to have at least a partner that you can sort of play with.
So that's probably a purely social one.
I think actually like for me golf is more social than solo.
I think the only times it's solo is like going to the range.
I don't like going to the range as much as I like playing on a course.
And playing on a course, I feel like I always want at least one person with me.
Yeah, that makes sense.
I think there's another hobby that I have that is like uniquely social sometimes.
So like I'm kind of into wine.
And I feel like yes, you could be into wine like solo.
But then you're just like there by yourself drinking like wine.
Right. And I mean, there's nothing wrong with that.
But I think the fun part about this like quote unquote hobby is when you like get some friends together and you're like, hey, let's fuck around and say.
Like, oh, what am I tasting from this wine?
None of us really know what we're talking about.
We're just like shooting the shit and like having fun.
Yeah, that's a really good point because I feel like especially indulging in stuff like food or drinks is just so much better of an experience when you're sharing it with people.
And also other people's opinions on whatever you're eating or drinking can often influence your thoughts on it too.
So I can definitely feel how that is like more of a social thing.
Yeah, and I feel like with the right group of people and the right setting and whatever, it definitely can be energizing.
And kind of like you said, shame away, a lot of hobbies can definitely be training like they're fun for sure.
But once you finish up, you're like, oh, I'm actually very tired.
And I wonder if there's any hobbies that you think tend to be a little more on the energizing side.
Like maybe you still end up feeling tired towards the end when you wrap up, but like while you're doing it, it's engaging and it makes you more energized.
I only have Sony hobbies, but climbing, I always go back to that point.
I feel that it's energizing in many ways both on the social aspect.
And also you're just very in tune with your body.
When you're on the wall, you have to be conscious of basically every end of your body, like from your fingertips to your toes where you're placing your feet, your hip and your head position.
All of those can affect how you feel on the wall, whether you're like falling off or if you can reach the next move.
So it really helps being in tune with your body and just being conscious of kind of everything that's going on.
And I think that in itself is kind of like a meditative process.
Like once you get into that mode, you kind of in like a flow state where you just listen to your body and you can do what's next.
But it doesn't always happen that way.
It's kind of hard to get into that flow state.
If I'm learning a new move, like something with a new coordination, I might just be flopping all over the place.
But that in itself is really fun too.
You're learning something new.
You might look goofy and your friends might clown you, but that adds to more of the energy and everyone's learning together.
So that's something I really enjoy about climbing after the session.
If it's been a good session, I learned something new or I sent something I've been working on.
I just feel really elated after the session.
And sometimes I just walk back smiling or sometimes I'm just maybe a little down, but I think the adrenaline really helps keep me feel energized during and after the session.
I like what you said about learning something new.
I think that's actually maybe like a key point now that I'm like reflecting on it.
If I'm learning something while I'm engaging in a hobby, it's reaching goals.
And every time you reach a goal or accomplish something, it's a burst of energy.
So I'm probably going to do a bad job recalling this, but I read some sort of article that said learning to do new things or teaching your body to do new things creates new neural pathways in your brain.
So then it is stimulating not only just like physically, but also like literally in your brain and like for your brain, which I find really interesting.
But I think what you said, Xing Wei about like trying to engage every like cell of your body to do that sport definitely reminds me of reaching flow state in the gym.
I don't know. I think I'm just like late to this, but in the past like year or two, I feel like I've been really learning what mind body connection is teaching my brain to like feel parts of my body that I don't like constantly engage is such a weird feeling.
And I feel like that is what is the most energizing to me things like pickleball and golf.
I find very fun, but honestly at the end of the game or end of like 18 or something.
I'm always like very drained, but for like a workout at the gym where I'm just like it's just me and myself.
I'm trying to like get all the postures and shit right like something about that is like very energizing.
So I guess in some ways hobbies like pickleball and golf are still physical and fun, but to me it's not as energizing as something like going to the gym.
I think there's something really special about physical hobbies, especially like working out.
It's very personalized to your own proportions and your own weaknesses and strengths.
If you reflect back a couple of years or even just a couple of months, you're probably doing something that you couldn't have done before and it's really validating.
I think that applies to all other sports as well.
If you improve your form, you're way more efficient than before or with golf.
Actually, I don't know too much about golf, but you know swing just feels right.
Yeah, I feel like you're both so right about like if you're doing something and you can literally see the improvement and or feel it.
Yeah, usually it's like something that's more physical.
So you know going to the gym or doing some sort of sport or whatever.
Kind of like what I said earlier, like having these goals and accomplishments in this hobby, I think is just like super energizing because I think it's also different from, you know, work because work or you know school or whatever.
You're doing these tasks and accomplishing these things, not necessarily always for yourself.
You know, sometimes it's like, oh, I just have to do this because like that's a task that I have.
Like I have to do this homework, whether I like it or not, but then like a hobby is truly like I like this thing.
So I want to improve. And then I think that's where like the excitement, the like motivation comes from it all.
So I can actually relate to this in like sometimes in games.
At first, it starts out like, oh, this game is fun.
I'm going to play it. And then you're like, oh, you know what?
I think I can improve in this game.
So you like start to research about it or like, you know, read up on it and then like implement these practices in your gameplay.
And then that's just like literally for the love of the game as they say.
Yeah, and I feel like there's something so gratifying about seeing what our body can achieve.
And sometimes it is in a more physical sense like working out or seeing what we could do on like games.
But I feel like sometimes it can also come in the form of like the creative aspects as well.
Recently, I went to my friends birthday thing and she had a little girls night for her birthday gifted each of us a plushie crochet kit.
All of us kind of sat around.
It was most of our first times.
We were like watching the little instruction videos and like catching up and attempting to crochet.
And at first, it was like lively and shit.
And then like 20 minutes into the night.
It was just like silent.
And we were just each like concentrating so much on crocheting.
And after I crocheted like a little section of it, I just felt so proud of what I made.
Even though it's just like a couple of knots or some shit, you know, I don't know.
I think it's hard to find things that make us very, very proud.
Sometimes in the day to day when emotions can be more dull.
You're just trying to get through the week.
But sometimes joy comes in like very simple forms like seeing what we can make after like 20 minutes of watching crochet videos.
Dude, I've heard those crochet plushies are hard as hell too.
Dude is hell. I've seen so many videos of people are like what it's supposed to look like, what I created.
It's just like a blob and it's like indented somehow.
So I mean props for you for getting some of it done.
Yeah, it lays on finishing my drawer.
But for those 20 minutes, I was in bliss.
You were in flow states.
But I do kind of want to talk about flow state because we already mentioned it a little bit.
And I guess like maybe we should define it first.
This is actually a term that I came to learn more about in the recent years.
What it essentially means.
It's a state where you're so intuned or engaged in the activity that you're doing that you're just like a god at the moment of like out what you're doing.
So like I guess colloquially it's like you're in the zone and you're just at peak performance.
So for an example, if you think of like sports professional players like NBA, someone is just like knocking down every single shot in the game.
They're in the zone. They're like pretty much in flow state.
So do you think there's any hobbies that bring about the either possibility or just like even straight up like flow state out of yourself.
For hobbies that I just get started in.
I have a really hard time of getting into the flow state because there's so much to learn so many questions.
A lot of doubt like is this do am I doing this right.
Does this feel right. This feels very foreign.
But once you put in more like practice and time.
I think that can be any hobby.
So with climbing again when I first started.
It was a struggle. I felt so heavy.
But after learning different techniques and how to really move my body.
I can get into the flow state when I can finally clear my head.
And I think for me when I'm able to just stop thinking and touting like, oh, is this too hard or is this move to reach you?
Do I have to jump for this like what do I do once all those thoughts clear out in my head.
I'm able to get in more of a flow state and just listen to my body.
It can act automatically because I've been climbing for a while and I have the practice from all the other climbs I've done before.
It kind of just comes out when I need to for creative hobbies for me.
I feel like that's even more rewarding when you get into that state.
When I was making music a lot of times.
I would just have an idea and I'll be stuck in the loop or I would even have trouble just getting the inspiration.
But there's like really rare moments like maybe one day in many, many months where I have an idea and the ideas just keep on coming.
And it's one of the most rewarding feelings.
My felt from a hobby. And when those moments happen.
The song kind of just creates itself.
After I'm done with the session, I just think to myself, well, that song just finished by itself.
Like I didn't really have to try too hard.
It just happened. Like most of my sessions are not like that.
I just sit there and I'm stuck in a loop.
I'm trying to add different things and it just sounds really bad.
And I wake up the next morning saying like, what did I even make?
But when I'm able to get into a flow state.
I just don't have any of those feelings in.
It's amazing. I wonder what it is specifically that allows us to get into flow state because I think I've somewhat reached flow state in my hobbies before.
And usually it like comes and goes a little bit for me.
So like in pickleball too.
I feel like there's times where I'm the one serving.
And suddenly everything clicks and my body knows what to do.
And I'm getting like multiple points in a row.
And then something happens.
And then I suddenly forget how to like swing the paddle.
And I've actually experienced.
Okay, this is a little stupid, but I've experienced flow state while like cleaning before.
So like I sometimes like organize my kitchen cabinets and our bathroom cabinets and all of that.
You know, we'll go months with like me shoving Tupperware like one of the cabinets.
I'm like, oh, nothing fucking fits.
Like it's so annoying. And then one day I'll just wake up with clarity of like, I need these specifically shaped bins.
And this will improve my quality of life.
And I don't know like sometimes it really just feels like it comes to me and then leaves.
But I wonder if in a certain way we're like triggering it or achieving it without even knowing.
Maybe it's like because we're thinking about it all the time subconsciously and then finally like something clicks.
And then it comes to our consciousness.
And we're like, all right, it's going to happen now.
I think of flow state almost as like you don't question anything like if it's happening, you can't second guess yourself or else you'll pull yourself out of it.
You know, you're like, yeah, this is just how it's going to go like shame, I was saying like just listen to your body like just listen to whatever is happening.
Don't question anything.
I just keep going forward.
I actually have reached flow state at work sometimes.
So I do like graphic design.
So there's definitely you know times where I'm just making something and I'm like feeling super clunky like, oh, I guess I'll just like force this in.
And I guess it somehow works.
But then there's definitely moments where it's like, oh, yeah, like everything is coming together so easily like I'm locked in right now.
And then I'm like, nice like today was so productive.
It's weird. I don't know what triggers it either for sure.
Sometimes the creative juices are flowing.
Sometimes they're not.
But I do think it's always very satisfying to like hit that flow state.
But what I have noticed is like once you're out of the flow state, you're very tired.
Oh, that actually took a lot out of me more than I realized.
It's interesting. Recently, we went to a friend's birthday party and they hosted it kind of outdoors in like a picnic form.
So then people were playing spike ball and like throwing a football around and etc.
Chris, I don't know if you saw this, but you and me and a couple of our other friends, we were like chatting for a while.
And then I realized that James wasn't with us, right.
So I turned around and I see him and another friend of ours pepper ring like a spike ball.
So they were like doing this rhythmical pass of like one spike pass, one spike pass, like it's that are over and over.
And I was like, oh, James, like how long have you guys been doing that?
And he was like, we've been doing this for 15 minutes.
They hadn't dropped the ball a single time.
And he was like, I'm in flow state right now.
And I was just like, what the fuck.
And it was so funny to me because you know when you yourself are in flow state, right.
Watching someone else in flow state was so weird because I was like, what's wrong with your eyes?
Like, you're like in a far away place.
And I just felt like it was, I don't know, almost like a visual representation of what flow state looks like.
It's just you're so concentrated.
It's almost like brain off.
And it's just your body moving.
But everything is just like perfect.
Yeah, it's almost like everything there is like instinctual and it's just like working.
Yeah, hearing you to talk about graphic design or just cleaning and James bring the ball.
And things like a good mix of like believing in yourself and also anticipating what's coming next.
So you're prepared for it.
I realize that just in any of my hobbies when I'm anticipating my next move or what I'm about to do next.
I'm able to I guess just like preplan in my head subconsciously and that keeps the momentum going in whatever I'm doing.
And that really helps prevent me from feeling clunky or second guessing what I'm going to do.
And my time is a really good word.
Dude, I can't stop thinking about, okay, this is so random.
But do you remember when Kanye was like writing that one album.
And then he was like, Oh, I'm like almost done with the album, just going to sleep in that like one.
And then I just put ball stadium until I finish the album or something.
I remember when I was young, I was like, dude, what the fuck like this guy.
That's just wild. But then the more I think about it, I feel like momentum is such a true thing.
Like once you miss it. It might take a little bit for you to recharge it.
And you kind of lose that forward moving energy a little bit.
So then I feel like knowing that you're on the right side of the energy or like knowing that you have good energy right now is also a big thing.
Maybe allows you to like believe in yourself a little bit and just trust that things will work out.
That's true. I don't think I ever hit flow state if I was like exhausted or like not feeling it like in a bad mood or something.
It's usually like when I'm in a good mood, had good rest, then I'm like ready to sit down and work.
And then it's like easier to kind of get in the zone from there.
I think some racket sports I might be wrong, but I think some racket sports even have rules to keep the players in flow state.
So when players are like on a winning streak or getting near the final points, you're not allowed to call it a really long time out or just disturb that state.
Otherwise it's like hindrance and it's just not great for the game.
I think like maybe a lot of sports to a lot.
I think you see an embassable lot you just call time out near the end of the game.
If it's really close so you can disturb the energy just trying to realign the vibes.
So you can turn the turnt the tides.
Wait, that's so true. Like when the other team is going on a run or something, then the defensive team or whatever is like all right time out, we can't let them like continue that momentum.
We need to like stop the ball.
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense too because you said I think in tennis, like if people are being loud in the crowd.
The umpire like tells them to shut up.
They're like you can't just yell, you know, these people are like very concentrated and same with golf.
Like usually if people are allowed or something, they're like, hey, what the heck?
Like be quiet. What the heck?
I just feel like that. I don't know.
Anyway. I do have a final question for us.
And I think GC you kind of touched upon this.
But have you actually ever reached flow state with another person, whether it's a group or one other person.
So I guess like the example that you said, G.
Sue was when James and our other friend like was in flow state hitting this bike.
So yes, I have. And I feel like my most recent experience of reaching flow state with someone else was at work actually.
I was like working on this report and it was something that was like a request from an external team.
So we required a lot of data set up and then also like fine tuning of the formatting and whatever, just making sure that it's a palatable report that's ready to be sent out to everyone in the company.
I was like on a video call with someone trying to fix it or like work on it.
We just like blasted through all of it in like 40 minutes in our first meeting.
And I was like, whoa, this is kind of crazy.
But it was just like everything that I needed to do.
But it was like everything that I maybe had a doubt on or like a question about the other person could answer and vice versa.
As soon as the other person said what their opinion was, I had already been thinking it.
So I was already like doing it on the report.
And it was just like so efficient.
We like worked on it together.
And the experience was such a positive one that I felt like it was very much like a bonding experience of like what we really did that.
Yeah. So yeah, I felt very proud.
And I was like, this is peak work flow state.
I agree. It feels amazing when you have that great teamwork.
And you're just bonded in that moment.
I was able to reach flow state with my friend when we're playing this game called destiny.
He was getting me into gaming during COVID.
And I really haven't game before.
So I've never reached flow state.
But we were doing this co-op dungeon map thing.
I don't I'm not a gamer. So I don't really have the terms for this.
But basically we were dying so much.
But we learned little details about every round every about the map.
And eventually we got into this flow state where we're still dying a lot.
But we learned we're learning so much about each other's patterns about when the boss is going to spawn the mini bosses are going to spawn.
And they got to the point where we knew exactly where each other were and what to expect our communication was great.
We're just no yelling on discord like I'm here.
I'm here or like do this.
I'm about to do this. And we knew exactly what was going to happen after that.
We didn't really look at each other.
But it felt like we looked at each other and nodded and said we really did that.
We locked in like we felt so good.
And we still talk about till today.
You touched each other's souls through discord.
Exactly. I love that. Oh my god.
Mine is actually kind of similar.
This is a really funny one.
It was me and our other friend Brian.
We're playing this volleyball game against G-Soo and James.
And okay, we were like the first I think two games or two matches like me and Brian were losing.
And then in the third one, I think it started off a little rough.
But then we went on this like four point streak.
But then okay, the sad part is that we celebrated too hard.
And then I think I got pulled out of it.
And then we started losing.
And I was like, oh shit. I just choked.
But you know, those those four points in a row were a great feeling.
The momentum was there.
Yeah. Okay, also to be fair, James was starting to look at G-Soo in a very scary way.
So I was like, oh my god. Like I am destroying their marriage right now.
Wait, I was actually dying because James and I we were all like sitting together in a row on the sofa.
And then James and I were sitting next to each other.
So James was looking at me and just being like, oh, you need a lock in.
But because we were sitting next to each other, I guess his face was kind of close to my nose.
I feel like this is what broke your flow state.
Chris was freaking out.
She's like, oh my god. I've never seen their faces so close together in my life.
Like they're so close. I was like, wait, you were out of our wedding.
You're actually right there.
Yeah, I was like, oh my god.
I cannot win this game. But I totally agree when you're so in tune with another person, it's just like holy shit.
Like we're like crushing it right now.
We're like, we're on top of the world.
Like nothing can beat us until you until you get pulled out of that.
I actually have another one to share.
I was on my first date with my girlfriend right now.
We're both climbers. And we decided to do climbing for our first date because it's something we both enjoy.
And it'll be like a comfortable hangout.
And I think because we both knew that we both climbed, we didn't want to choke, you know.
So we both locked in and we barely talked because we chose to do top rope, where you climb with the rope.
Well, one person is climbing.
The other person is playing them, which is when you have the rope and you make sure they don't fall down.
So we were just really locked in trying to perform our best.
And we didn't exchange any words for like 30 minutes because after I was done climbing, we just unhook the rope and hooked the other person on.
And then she would start climbing.
I just feel a sense of relief when I got to the top like thank god I didn't fall.
I didn't embarrass myself in front of my crush.
And then so we didn't talk very much until we decided to go towards bouldering.
And even the first few couple of boulders we didn't really talk until I finally snap out of the flow state.
And I feel like, yeah, we didn't talk yet.
So I just turned and faced her.
And we started like, okay, I just realized we haven't been talking.
And then I asked, I don't remember what question I asked, but yeah, we started talking after.
Damn, when you have to manually break flow.
Oh my god. But there's something cute in that too.
It's like, I can't fuck up in front of the person I like, like you're so concentrated.
I feel like that that's like a pretty funny one.
Oh, that was cute. Well, it was definitely really interesting talking about our various hobbies and about flow state with you both.
It feels like even though our hobbies are somewhat different in a way, I feel like the experience of reaching flow state and really diving into a hobby is very much universal.
So thank you, Shane, for coming on and chatting about your various hobbies with us for any of our listeners out there.
If you have any thoughts on how to manually reach flow state or if you have any other hobbies that you've been into lately, definitely feel free to hit us up.
We have Instagram at eat your crisp pod and we also have email eat your crisp pod at gmail.com.
And don't forget to follow us on Apple podcasts, Spotify, wherever you listen to podcasts, we upload new episodes every Wednesday morning.
Thanks for listening. And don't forget to eat your crust.
