Discussion keeps the world turning.
This is Round Table.
You're listening to Round Table with myself, Ho Young.
I'm joined by Li Yi in the studio and Josh Cotterow on the line coming up the Agile
tradition of keeping pet birds in China as undergoing a remarkable transformation as a growing
number of young people embrace a more interactive, emotionally connected approach to avian companionship.
Just behind this resurgence, in pet bird ownership, to an end for an in-depth look at this trend
from a bird's eye view.
And when the fairy tale wedding gives way to an unfortunate split, navigating the fate
of the once cherished engagement wedding ring can be a delicate and legally complex process
for former spouses.
We take a look at this transition from I Do To I Don't What Determines the Ultimate
Distiny of the Engagement Ring Post-Avourse.
And what about redesigning it into something new?
If you have a question that you would like us to answer in a future show, whether
I be about something that happened in the news or something you've been wondering about,
you can email us a voice memo to eZFM Round Table at FoxMail.com.
You can always find a previous show on Apple Podcasts at Round Table China.
Now let's move on to the next topic discussion.
In China, bird keeping has long been associated with older generations, often leisurely strolling
with their feathered friends in bamboo cages.
However, in recent years, more young people have started to adopt birds as pets, despite
being low maintenance and relatively easy to bond with, there is susceptibility to illness
and the limited availability of specialized veterinary care, especially outside major cities,
pose challenges.
So what's behind this apparent resurgence in pet bird ownership?
Well, first of all, I think we could really observe more than ever discussion about birds
raising in recent years, especially in recent two years, I believe, here in China, especially
young people, they're quite willing to raise birds.
And despite those online discussion, we can also tell the trend from offline stores,
for example, and interviewed bird store owner in Hangzhou city, Zhu Jiang province, saying
that bird has already become one of the best solar pets in the market, especially over
the past two years, and young consumers have been more than willing to take the time and
effort to feed a young bird themselves, and also called in Chinese as hand raised among
which parrot has been highly so-dafter.
And also we talked about cat, coffee bars, or dog coffee bars, and now we really have
bird coffee bars.
For example, like coffee bars here in Hangzhou have also sensed the growing passion for
birds, especially parrots, especially they can really add a little bit like ambience to
their places.
Mr. Lin, the manager of a coffee shop called Jerry Bird Cafe, said there were over 30
parrots in the coffee bars with many varieties, and because all the parrots were hand-fed,
so each one was lively and friendly, which can be quite attractive to customers in the
coffee bars.
And also since its opening in September 2023, the store has seen a wave of peak customer
traffic and even some young people from neighboring cities, but also pay a special visit to this
coffee bar featuring different kinds of birds.
Oh yeah, it just seemed like offline there's quite the popularity when it comes to pet bird
raising.
And on the internet there's a lot of discussion as well.
We've seen even the rise of bird influencers who document, record, and share their experience
as raising birds, especially parrots.
Apparently this is an obvious favorite.
And on Do-Yin or TikTok's Chinese version on the Hot Index, which is pretty much a way
to measure whether this thing is trending or not.
And Bird, keeping, is one of the hot topics with searches surpassing 9 million over just
a week recently.
So given all of the popularity online and offline, Josh, have you realized or have you done some
research on apparently one of the key terms associated with pet birds in China is to hand
raise them.
And what are some of the hallmarks on that?
Well, there is a report that Lee Lee from Nanguo Morning Post, and they noted that majority
of young people like to, as you said, hand raise their birds.
So what this means is that the breeder keeps the pet bird from its birth to its maturity
in the way of hand feeding, similar to the way in which a bird might feed from its parents.
And so the bond is much stronger when this happens.
Ms Huang, who was raised parrots for three years, said that hand raised birds are best
when raised from young birds.
Just for example, usually the best way is to keep one when it's about 10 days out of
the shell, which can save a lot of late training.
So I guess that this is kind of similar to puppies or kittens as well, which of course are
the two most common domestic pets is that if you get one, one of the pros of getting one
from when it's very, very young is that you can create a real bond with it.
And it also means that they're more likely to respond to you.
You've probably heard of this concept of a dog having a master, like singular person
a lot of the time, right?
And it will only respond to that master.
I think that this is quite similar to this.
Yeah.
This is interesting because this actually evokes some past experience of interviewing wild
raptor rescuers here in the Beijing Raptor Rescue Center.
And then one key takeaway was, you know, for rescuers and rehabilitators, they try their
best to not imprint on the rescued birds, meaning that they do not want wild life birds to
be familiarized with human beings and do not want wildlife to expect that they can,
let's say, get food or comfort from human beings because once they're released back into
the wild, then it's important to actually keep the distance.
So during the rescue process, when they're feeding the rescued birds, they would actually
dress up like a tree or like a mother bird with all this kind of camouflage, which I did
try.
And you can check out the video we posted, I believe last year of Huyang visiting that place.
And so, you know, they were very adamant about, you know, keeping this distance and also
this procedure called reducing imprint on wildlife birds.
But here, of course, we're talking about domesticated pet animals.
And then I suppose having this bond is okay.
But I have very mixed feelings about this.
They belong in the wild, not in some cage in your home, but that's just my opinion.
Yeah.
And that's quite interesting because when you talk about these experts, they are seeing
something like they pay like huge attention to the way they deal with or they care those
wild birds to make sure they are not really captured by human beings later.
I think that's really helpful because even though like bird raising is becoming a trend
here in China, I mean, it's still like a very niche hobby or very niche industry, niche trend
compared to raising cat or raising dog.
Still people have very little idea about birds, about how they think, how they react in
certain circumstances and how we might really treat them in a very good way.
So that's why we need more discussion like this because although people are showing their
fountains towards birds, but really we need to learn how to provide equal and proper care to our animal
friends because compared to like bird raising, I mean, it's not really a new hobby because we
always talk about like grandpa's or middle age may hear imbeging.
They're particularly found of raising birds.
But I'm not really sure there might be very slight differences when you look at bird raising
by young people and by maybe by people like a few decades ago because before people might
treat birds like simply like their pet, they're, you know, enjoying seeing in the cage and
they enjoying the feeling that they carry the cage on the street and they can acquire
the admiring eyesight.
But now I think people are treating birds and also their pets like their friends.
They want companionship of course, but also they want to maybe have more emotional interaction
with their pets of course.
So that's why I think we really need more discussion and we need more like inspiration and
reflection just as what you said before, Hoya.
Yeah, I think that it makes sense why this animal can be many people's favorite or can
be quite suited to a lot of people.
We have quite a few idioms in English and stuff about birds and stupidity and for some
reason we sort of talk about things like bird brain and you know stuff like this that maybe
makes us assume that they're quite stupid, but it can often be quite the opposite.
Actually many bird species like parrots and such, are highly intelligent.
They can do tricks and solve puzzles and they can even, some of them can even mimic you
right and mimic human speech.
So they're quite intelligent which is really an attribute that you want in a pet to a certain
degree right because you want to be able to have an emotional bond with it and not just
have something that's like an inanimate object although we have spoke before about people
making rocks, their pets etc.
So maybe it doesn't matter that much.
Either way, they're quite, they're a bit more interesting than I think people think and
they're quite social as well.
Birds are quite social creatures and a lot of them do enjoy companionship so I can sort
of understand why people get you know prefer to have them and I guess they're quite low
maintenance as well.
You know it's not like you usually need to walk them you know or take care of them as much
they tend to groom themselves and stuff like this I think birds but they are really loud
and annoying I think I would say just for the record if anybody was thinking of getting
me one which I'm sure probably not.
No offense to the bird lovers.
So I had some neighbours that had them and I don't know how they lived with that.
Do you mean like roosters?
No no no no no.
I mean that's like livestock you know.
I mean like a bird in the house.
Well okay and just slightly circle back one small point.
You mentioned like raising stones or rocks as pets was that you?
No.
Oh okay.
I collected fossils I didn't they were my pets.
I apologize moving on.
Okay.
Can I just add one more reason that why people might love raising birds?
Yes please.
Parents especially they live much longer than cats and dogs and that's why people might
also you know choose to raise birds because some wild parents can leave up to 70 to 80 years.
So that's why yeah so that's why people might be thinking that raising birds can also bring
me companionship for a longer time.
You know so it might just be more cost effective because simply they eat less and you don't
really need to you know maybe spend a lot of money buying food for them.
That's true actually.
I have my leftovers maybe my you're not my orios.
If you don't love them so much.
Oh I do.
If I keep them I do I will definitely let them.
And there's one more thing I I believe is important to let everybody know before whether
they want to adopt a bird as their pet companion especially parents.
Apparently parrots are strictly monogamous meaning that unlike dogs and cats that tend
to distinguish who is the master in the house first don't know this and it's more like
an equal relationship and experts say that parents are so loyal and monogamous that if
they've chosen you the owner or somebody in your family as their partner once this partner
is gone out of the picture the parrot could be so distraught that it picks itself to death.
So it's a huge responsibility you know before taking up the livelihood or you know basically
the dependence of another animal on you so so please you know think about this carefully
before you decide on ownership.
So here's that important question for this topic bird as pet to keep or not to keep.
I think that we should be allowed to keep animals but I think at the same time one needs
to make sure that the environment is suitable.
I'm not an expert on birds but from what I've read before this show it appears to me that
they do need enough space and a lot of the time they can get quite anxious and uncomfortable
when they're limited to this to a certain amount of space.
So I think that we have to be really cautious when we think about acquiring this pet and
I think that goes for any domesticated animal actually not just birds but I think birds
especially one of the thing is that they can be quite loud so we also have to think about
neighbors and such and yeah just look at the lifespan do your research before and if
you do that and you really take care I think I don't see a massive issue with it at all.
And also keep in mind that not every species of birds can be raised.
I think both in China and also in other countries actually here in China we have a very
strict list of key protected wild animals so that's why certain species are not really
allowed to be raised.
For example for traditional birds that used to be allowed on the market are not really
banned, in fact there are only nine kinds of birds that can be home kept.
It's very useful information important there.
Coming up beyond the initial heartbreak some divorces find themselves pondering the surprising
after-lives of their wedding and engagement rings.
What about turning them into divorce rings?
Stay tuned.
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Is the hour of Roundtable?
Well myself, how young?
I'm joined by Lee in the studio and Josh Caterl on the line.
Old wedding and engagement rings can be a strong and sentimental reminder of the past.
They're often something that holds meaning for people in their lives.
So naturally you would want to make good use of them even when maybe one decides to dissolve
a marriage.
Now some divorces explore creative ways to repurpose or re-home the jewelry.
Transforming what was once a token of love into something new and possibly empowering.
So we are talking about repurposing and redesigning the wedding ring or engagement ring into a
divorce ring necklace in one's choice to think outside of the box.
Well I suppose this discussion started off on international social media with one celebrity.
She got divorced and she redesigned her rather fancy diamond engagement ring.
So what is this divorce reign exactly and have people found new meaning to it?
Yeah, actually I don't really think jewelry is to mark important moments in your life,
including marriage and divorce is a new concept.
But recently we do see more discussion about this so-called divorce diamond ring because
of that American model and actress she shared her own experience.
So according to Sabrina Lume which is a brand marketing manager of a Singaporean jewelry
brand, Madly James, there are generally two types of divorce ring.
One is to incorporate the old one into a new one which to symbolize evolving from changes
or to make a ring that is entirely yours from scratch called as liberation ring.
And according to Jessica Fling which is a jewelry designer to demand for alteration of
rings high skyrocketed.
300% in the past two years in the fine jewelry brand Lily and Trupee have also been keeping
an eye on the trend and attracting great importance to the divorce market.
So that's a very interesting concept.
Yeah Josh how do you feel about it?
Divorce rings?
Well it's a bit weird to you know talk about this when you're not even.
I would assume you haven't given out the engagement ring yet.
I might be divorced for all you know who you are.
But I'm not.
What do I think about this?
I think that what it represents to me, I mean a lot of these trends are so fueled by
and are fueling social media trends that it's sometimes difficult to see how important
they are in the grand scheme of things.
But I think that it is significant, I think it represents something really massive which
is a big societal shift in attitudes towards divorce.
I think that more and more so it's less and less taboo right.
And when it comes to many things in society that start out as taboo a lot of the time it
does take some sort of big gesture in order to move things forward.
And this is quite controversial I think maybe to some degree or it's at least very symbolic
because the ring is a symbol of bond right.
It's a circle it means to be unified with another person right.
So it doesn't really make sense to have it as a symbol for a divorce right.
But I understand it because it does represent empowerment I guess but more over to me it
represents a bigger shift in attitudes towards divorce.
And on an even more specifically on attitudes usually to women leaving marriages, you know,
whereas previously in societies it would be more difficult for them to do so and is still
difficult I think in many cases because most of the pictures that I've seen from the
research before this show have been from female influencers actually that are getting these
divorce rings.
Not men.
Maybe instead the women I mean I think this is a good thing.
Just to keep the ring.
Usually it's you know the engagement ring is the fancier one that's got the diamond
on it.
And then the wedding ring is just in comparison a planer wedding band.
And I suppose this has something to do with the societal shifts that Josh has just mentioned
at but I like to just turn your attention to a different angle that is well just given
the rising divorce rates and while in China also you know there's been this growing trend
of having or wanting a diamond ring for marriage and therefore just by the sheer numbers
then there are a substantial number of people who have this diamond ring just sitting
in a drawer then why not repurpose it or at least you can wear it and then not make
you think of painful memories or unpleasant memories and just reset it and wear it or
maybe wear it as a necklace turn it into a bracelet.
Lee what do you see as you know possibly maybe we don't know how big this is but an uptick
in the interest of divorce rings.
Well personally because I don't really have a diamond ring for my marriage or for the
wedding ceremony I don't really think it's a necessary item that you have to have when
you get a marriage into somebody else I simply consider like diamond ring and marriage
and everything is a concept that is constructed socially and commercially.
So it is because at first those drawery companies they try to make you believe that you need
ring especially a diamond ring to mark your marriage so that's why you know newlyweds
couples they're buying this so I think it's pretty much the same thing when it comes
to divorce diamond ring of course it's a huge market but then I think do we really need
an item or a symbol for either the bond and also for the separation I think that's a
question depends on individuals I mean if you think you really need that thing to help
you mark this moment to help you feel better to help you either to announce your divorce
to others then you can just buy your diamond ring or you can simply alter your original
diamond ring or you can simply buy whatever you want.
Yeah of course that's just a business strategy in my opinion.
Yeah I suppose for most people unless you have millions sitting in your bank account
and now you've already had a whole bunch of expensive jewelry yachts and villas or whatnot
most people don't I can't really see maybe more women might be thinking about this as
you know guys probably don't care about this at all but you know buying a diamond ring
to celebrate your divorce who does that unless you have millions maybe just resting in
your bank account but for more people it's probably just about you know what do you do
with the existing one if you maybe if you luckily get to keep it yeah because you know
buying that diamond ring could be quite a lot of money initially and in the past diamonds
have been seen as also a good weight invest and keep the value of your money but ever since
lab grown diamonds become a thing and then the growth potential of the price of bigger
diamonds I suppose you know above one carrot and size have kind of plateaued so it's
going to be interesting to see what happens in the diamond market in the future as well
just given the fact that nurtured diamonds are becoming more and more common in the market
as well in that brings us to the end of today's roundtable thank you so much Lee Ye and
Josh Cotterall for joining the discussion I'm Hayoung we'll see you next time.
