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Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeart Radio.
Good morning.
This is Laura.
Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast.
Today's episode is going to be a longer one part of the series where I interview fascinating people about how they take their days from great to awesome and any advice they have for the rest of us.
So today I am delighted to welcome Shira Gill to Before Breakfast.
Shira is an organizing expert and the author of several lovely and calming books, including Lifestyled and Organized Living.
Shira, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much.
Yeah, why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself?
Sure.
So I spent the majority of my career as a professional organizer in people's homes.
So helping people edit and organize and style every room of their home, and then transitioned into book writing during COVID, which was a natural transition to get out of people's homes.
And that's when I wrote my first book, Minimalista.
And then from there, as you mentioned, I wrote two other books.
And now.
My work is really designed to help people create clarity, clear clutter and take decisive action in all areas of life.
So from home to their mind, to their schedule, to their business.
And were you always like an organized person?
I'm curious how you began a career in professional organizing.
Yeah, I would say I was always very affected by my environment.
I don't know that I would have used the word organized, but it was more obsessive.
And I always felt very calmed by having a calming environment.
So I think as a young kid, it was something I always paid a lot of attention to when I felt anxious.
My parents divorced when I was quite young and I was an only child who went back and forth from house to house every other day.
So I think I found organization and editing and styling as a way of kind of self-soothing and just calming myself when things felt out of control.
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, so it's interesting.
One of the things you talk about is minimalism.
I mean, your first book was called Minimalista.
But, you know, you have multiple kids.
You have a business that involves multiple projects at any given point.
I'm curious what minimalism... really means in a context for people who do have a lot going on?
Yeah.
So for me, the way I define minimalism is clarifying what's most important and stripping away everything else, the clutter and distraction that's in the way of that thing that you've defined as most important.
And that thing or things can obviously change during different seasons of your life.
For me.
You know I've had periods where I'm raising a baby and a toddler and that kind of takes first priority.
And then as my kids now are teenagers, I've kind of pivoted my focus to more of a career mindset.
But I think the thing is, whether you're thinking about curating your home or editing your schedule, or thinking about your career, it all starts with the clarity of what do I want most in this moment?
And then I think the step that most of us fail to take is the what can I let go of that's in the way or preventing me from getting that thing that I want.
Yeah.
So let's say that somebody is saying, you know, like, my house is a mess, right?
Everything is just a mess.
What has usually led to that?
Like, what are people doing wrong that makes things feel so out of control?
Well, so I think most of it is not their fault, I should say, because I think a lot of it just comes from the consumer forward culture that we're all living in in the Western world that tells us we need more more, more all the time bigger, better products.
And there's this kind of constant sense of needing to acquire.
So I think the biggest issue that I run into with people is just a volume problem, where they have stopped setting firm boundaries and guidelines about how much they consume, when they consume and what they're willing to bring into their home.
I think the other thing around organization is just overcomplicating it.
So the main themes that I see are running to the container store to buy more containers as opposed to really addressing the volume problem, or over.
Organizing is a big one for people thinking that they have to have everything color coded or alphabetized and then getting so overwhelmed that they feel paralyzed.
And so my process really starts with clarity, what do I want and what's in the way?
And when you look at the things in your home, you can start seeing them through that lens of.
Are these things that I own, that I surround myself with, getting me closer to that vision of the life I want, or are they a time suck?
And taking me further and further away from that vision.
And I think having that compelling North Star of here's the thing I want most is really liberating for people in then starting to look at their stuff.
Because you can really...
You can explain wanting to keep anything or anything being useful.
But I think when you look at it through that lens of is this getting me closer to the thing that I want or further away, then it's easier for people to let go.
All right.
Well, I was intrigued by a headline on your website where you said five things you can do in five minutes, I believe.
Talk about something you want to click on right there.
What are some things we can do in five minutes to have success? a more better, useful space.
Yeah, I think number one is set up a donation station in your home.
I always like to hang a tote bag in my entry closet or if you have a mudroom, but somewhere right by the front door, that can corral things that you just noticed you no longer need.
The other thing I would say is an outbox.
We talk a lot about the inbox for mail and bills, but the outbox is some sort of vessel.
I like a big pretty basket again towards your front door where you can corral all of the things that need to see their way out of your house.
So those are the things that tend to clutter all of your surfaces, like the Tupperware you borrowed from a neighbor or a shop.
Return for Nordstrom or Amazon or anything.
All of those things that need to see their way out.
Having a dedicated place by the front door to corral those, so that the next time you hop in your car or get on the bus you can grab it and go and redistribute.
I would also say the converse of that is having an inbox.
So I'm a busy mom.
I have kids coming and going with school forms and things for me to sign and bills and invites.
And they used to get scattered all over our home, littering all of the counters.
And so I basically erected this very simple system that I call the inbox.
Here's a basket.
If anything needs my attention, pop it in here.
I will look at it every Sunday.
And so those like very tiny, simple systems have been game changing.
I also think you know I started this thing a few years ago called the 15 minute win.
That just challenges people to see what you can do in terms of tackling a micro project.
So that could be a junk drawer in your kitchen.
It could be editing the contents of your wallet or handbag.
It could be a quickie refrigerator clean out or a medicine cabinet purge.
But I think it's like those little things go such a long way in boosting how we feel on a day-to-day basis.
And they really don't have to take that long.
Absolutely.
All right.
Well, we're going to take a quick ad break and then I'll be back with more from Shira Gill.
Hey, listeners.
Today's tip is powered by National University.
Before breakfast.
You know my goal is to help you make the most of your day without sacrificing work or family time.
That's why I'm so happy to introduce an institution that shares the same values.
If you are thinking about going back to school, you're probably wondering how to fit it all in.
National's flexible online formats, four- and eight-week courses and monthly class starts help you begin your degree sooner, finish faster and do it all on your own schedule.
So you have more options for managing work, family and school.
With over 150 degrees, credentials and certificates to choose from, they have a program that fits your career goals.
Learn more today at nu.edu.
Stop settling for weak sound.
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Well, I am back talking with Shira Gill, who is an organization expert and the author of several books, including Lifestyled Organized Living, Minimalista.
So another thing I was intrigued by I saw in all your content, and they've been created travel essentials.
So you know, we have very limited space on planes.
You know, sometimes less than three ounces we can take for various things.
What are your travel essentials that you think people should be looking into?
Yeah, it's so funny that I just got back from a one-month trip that I went to all over Europe in a tiny carry-on bag.
So I was tested more than ever.
And in Europe, they have different travel standards.
And so the typical American travel standards for things like toiletries were completely thrown out the window.
So I had to edit even further.
So I would say toiletries are the thing that get people in trouble more than anything.
Tip number one is trust that, wherever you go, there will be shampoo, there will be conditioner, there will be soap.
You do not have to pack those things up.
I really focus on thinking about what is my capsule collection of the five-minute face that I need.
I also like dual purpose products.
So for me, I don't wear a ton of makeup, but I love like a cheek lip duo.
So one product instead of two.
I like a tiny tub of coconut oil, which you can use as a moisturizer.
You can use it to tame frizzies on your hair.
You can use it as a makeup remover.
So really thinking about, what are those dual purpose or even triple purpose products that you might have?
And for me it's getting that toiletry bag down to one tiny compact system that consists of deodorant, face wash, moisturizer and a few basic makeup essentials, and that's it.
My other trick.
I'm a person with zero hair skills, so I will often get a blowout or get my hair done prior to a trip and then just not touch it.
Not bring any hair care essentials or products which also can clutter up a bag.
Other quick travel tips I swear by.
The space-saving packing cube is actually my number one travel essential.
They really can double or triple the space in your luggage.
So for me, I'll use one packing cube for tops and bottoms, another for underwear and pajamas.
And the other big thing is just shoes.
Shoes are the largest thing typically that we pack.
So wearing your bulkiest pair of shoes on the plane and then potentially limiting yourself to just one that you pack in your suitcase?
So I have a question about the packing cubes, because, I mean, the laws of physics don't change.
So what is it about the packing cubes?
That is, expanding the volume of stuff that we can bring in any given container.
Yeah.
Yes, it's such a good question.
The answer is compression.
But when you zip it, it compresses and removes all of the air.
So it's almost works as suction.
And so it can take this huge mountain of clothes and reduce it to like a tiny little compact package.
Okay.
All right.
Now I've got it.
I promise it works.
I promise it works.
Exactly.
So, Shira, a lot of people, I mean, really like the aesthetic of your work.
Like I said, you have sort of coffee table looking books that you've written over the years.
I'm curious how you would describe what that aesthetic is.
I was saying things like calming, natural colors, but I wonder how you would describe it.
And what if somebody is trying to go for something like that?
What gets included and what does not get included in that?
Oh, that's a fun question.
I think I would probably say warm minimalism.
I think often people think of minimalism as very stark and kind of austere minimalism.
And I like my spaces to feel very warm and cozy and inviting, but I still like them very stripped down and clutter free.
So I think I'm always looking at things like the bones of a home, like how do you elevate beautiful paint and colors, crown moldings?
And I live in a home that's 120 years old.
So I love to kind of highlight those old elements and then really invest in the things that take up the most space.
So like a couch or a bed that takes up, you know, sometimes 90% of your room.
Those are the places where I really invest in getting high quality items.
And then being very thoughtful about the accessories.
So I'm a huge fan of bringing the outdoors in.
Whenever I'm decorating a space, I just think about fresh flowers or plants as a way of warming the space up, and also textiles.
So, even if there's not a lot in a space like I'm looking at my living room right now, which literally just has a couch and a coffee table and a chair, but I warm that up with throw, pillows and with art and with flowers and blankets so that it feels inviting.
Okay, got it, got it.
So what's your schedule looking like these days?
This is kind of a productivity show, so I'm curious what life is looking like for you.
Yeah, busy in a good way.
I think, you know, I get bored easily, so I always like to have a very diverse schedule.
So my schedule is kind of a combo of seeing clients in person, seeing clients virtually working on books, writing content, doing photo shoots and collaborations with other creatives.
And I'm also planning multiple retreats and in-person workshops.
So it's a lot of like creative dreaming and scheming and then also client work.
Okay.
And so let's talk through daily routine.
Like what time do you get up in the morning and what do you do then?
Yeah.
So sleep is my number one priority.
I'm hardcore about sleep.
So I'm always in bed by 10, 10.30, and I tend to sleep until 7 or 7.30.
Now that my kids are older and not waking me at 5 in the morning, that... mainly can be adhered to.
So I'm getting a really solid chunk of sleep every night.
Otherwise, I found I just am useless.
So that's number one is sleep.
And then I wake up in the morning.
I don't have a very...
I guess, massive morning routine.
I try to keep it, I guess, really minimal, but I drink a huge amount of water, first thing when I wake up and we have a dog.
So I kind of integrate walking the dog with getting my exercise, getting fresh air first thing in the morning.
And then I'm typically sitting down to work by nine.
All right.
Well, we're going to hear a little bit more about Shira's routine after this, but we're going to take one more quick ad break.
Before breakfast.
You know my goal is to help you make the most of your day without sacrificing work or family time.
That's why I'm so happy to introduce an institution that shares the same values.
If you are thinking about going back to school, you're probably wondering how to fit it all in.
National's flexible online formats, four- and eight-week courses and monthly class starts help you begin your degree sooner, finish faster and do it all on your own schedule.
So you have more options for managing work, family and school.
With over 150 degrees, credentials and certificates to choose from, they have a program that fits your career goals.
Learn more today at nu.edu.
Stop settling for weak sound.
It's time to level up your game and bring the boom.
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Well, I am back talking with Shira Gill, who's an organization expert and the author of several books.
All right.
So, Shira, you're at your workplace or your work, your desk around nine starting work.
I know you're managing lots of projects all the time.
How do you figure out what you should be doing at any given time?
Is there a time you plan your schedule or any approach you take to this?
Yeah, absolutely.
So I always have one big goal that I'm working towards.
For the past three years, that's been a book.
I've written three books back to back.
So kind of the big goal is writing and finishing a manuscript.
That anchors the rest of my schedule.
So I find that I am brightest and sharpest in the morning.
And so once the kids are out the door, the dog is walked.
I really use from nine to noon every day for my like key productivity.
So typically that's writing a book or it's writing content for my sub stack, but it's not client work.
That always happens first in the day.
For me, whatever that priority is developing a new program, writing a book.
And then after that, I always have lunch.
I'm very big into food.
So I would say from noon to 1, I'm always eating.
And that's a time when I can catch up on emails, call a friend.
And then the afternoon tends to be things like client work, I go on podcasts often in the afternoon.
If I need to schedule something like a networking meeting or a photo shoot, that would be in the afternoon.
And then family time starts for me around five or six every day when my kids and husband and dog and all of the beings come back.
And do you have a wind down routine that helps you get to bed 10, 1030 at night?
I do.
Yeah.
So we typically have dinner together as a family.
We're total early birds, our whole family.
So we eat. you know, by 5.30 or 6.
And then my kids knock out the dishes, which is amazing now that they're older.
And during that time, I do kind of like a 10-minute tidy of the space.
So I'll wipe down the dining room table, which also doubles as my office space in the morning.
So I want that to be nice and clear and clean.
And then I'll take about 15 minutes.
I'll sit down with my calendar and my notebook and I'll basically make a little cheat sheet for the following day.
I do this on a white index card or in a notebook and I literally just write down my day.
So like today it was like walk the dog, podcast with you.
I have a dentist appointment.
I have another podcast.
I'm doing some writing and then picking up dinner.
So I can see all of that at a glance with this note card.
And I think what that process does for me is it reminds me of anything such as I need to confirm this appointment, or I need to lay out clothes, or I need to pack a lunch or snacks, so that when I go to bed, I'm really prepped already for waking up and diving into my day.
All of those things are checked off.
All right.
Got it.
So we're organized for the next day by the day before.
Always good.
So one of the questions I always ask people is what is something you have done recently to take a day from great to awesome?
For me, it's always going to this very intense core power yoga class where I sweat my brains out.
It's about 45 minutes.
I have to get there, I have to park, I have to shower afterwards.
But what I find is when I can get to that class, the energy and momentum I have afterwards like supersizes my day.
So that's something I'm trying to integrate five days a week, which is very difficult.
But I say, when does that happen?
I didn't see any space earlier.
You did not see the space.
Yeah.
So I always do Saturday and Sunday mornings.
So I kind of have a guaranteed two in my week and then I'll typically do one evening.
So three is really easy for me.
It's getting to four or five.
That just depends on the week.
Like if I have a nice you know block in the middle of my day say, and I can run and do a 12 to one.
But I do find for me, exercise is the biggest productivity hack that I have.
It just really changes my energy and my momentum.
But 45 minutes away is quite a ways.
Oh, sorry.
It's not 45 minutes away.
Class is 45 minutes.
Okay, phew.
I was like, whoa.
No, no, no.
That would be insane.
Really good instructor, I guess.
No, I'm not that dedicated.
So yeah, it's about 10 minutes from my house.
So I have to kind of have a buffer of like 15 to 20 on either side for parking.
And then because it's a high intensity sweat class, I do have to then go home and shower.
So it really I would say like, all told, I need to budget two hours to do this, which is a decent chunk of the day.
But then I feel like it gives me this whole new lease on life, where then I can work and be productive for many more hours, when typically I would be in a slump by the afternoon.
Yeah.
Although it's interesting.
You know, I feel like even with things like that, we can sometimes work on our transitions to be faster as well.
I wonder if that's something you've thought about in your life.
Absolutely.
I mean, honestly, sometimes I'm like, I don't need to shower this minute.
I'm feeling revved up and I'm going to write or I'm going to make that phone call and I'll shower later, and just it'll be OK.
I think you know for me I don't have, I don't take that long to get ready, both in the morning or post-workout.
Like I mentioned, I don't know how to do my hair, so...
I find that many people have like these elaborate hair or makeup routines.
I don't have that.
It takes me about five minutes to throw myself together and put my hair in a messy bun.
So that does save.
I think for me, like the big blocks are always sleep, eating and exercise.
And if I get those pillars in, the rest of my day tends to work and be optimized.
Absolutely.
So Shira, what's something you are looking forward to right now?
I am doing my first ever in-person retreat with my brother, who is a chef.
And so he is providing all of the food and snacks and provisions for this retreat.
That is a big goal setting retreat.
So I have 15 women coming from all over the world.
I actually have some people flying in from Montreal and Amsterdam and we're meeting in California this fall.
And I'm going to coach people through my goal-setting process and then we're going to turn that into kind of a business mastermind and accountability group.
Oh, that sounds like a ton of fun.
And I bet the food will be amazing.
Yes, it's all about the food.
That's how it started.
We build the food first and then everything else.
I have the food.
I need to have a reason to bring people in.
That's right.
That's right.
The food came first.
And then I was like, well, what is this retreat?
I love it.
I love it.
Absolutely.
So Shira, where can people find you?
Yeah, so people can find me on my website, shiragill.com.
I also write a sub stack called the life edit, where I drop tips and inspiration towards living a clutter free life every Tuesday.
Excellent.
Well, Shira, thank you so much for joining us.
Thank you to everyone for listening.
If you have feedback about this or any other episode, you can always reach me at laura, at lauravandercamcom.
In the meantime, this is Laura.
Thanks for listening.
And here's to making the most of our time.
Thanks for listening to Before Breakfast.
If you've got questions, ideas, or feedback, you can reach me at Laura at LauraVanderkam.com.
Before Breakfast is a production of iHeart Media.
For more podcasts from iHeart Media, please visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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Hey, listeners.
Today's tip is powered by National University.
You know my goal is to help you make the most of your day without sacrificing work or family time.
That's why I'm so happy to introduce an institution that shares the same values.
If you are thinking about going back to school, you're probably wondering how to fit it all in.
National's flexible online formats, four- and eight-week courses and monthly class starts help you begin your degree sooner, finish faster and do it all on your own schedule.
So you have more options for managing work, family and school.
With over 150 degrees, credentials and certificates to choose from, they have a program that fits your career goals.
Learn more today at nu.edu.
Stop settling for weak sound.
It's time to level up your game and bring the boom.
Hit the town with the ultra-durable LG X Boom portable speaker and enjoy vibrant sound wherever you go.
This is an iHeart Podcast.
