Greg, thanks for joining us today.
Well, Kwame, thank you for the invitation, number one, and the opportunity to not only deliver what I know is going to be very insightful information for those that see and or hear this because, hey, you got two top notch negotiators going on in this episode.
Yes, I'm very excited and I've been excited for this for years and I want to thank you for being patient with all of the scheduling mishaps leading to this.
So listeners, this has been a long time coming and Greg is just one of the godfathers of the industry.
So for those of you who don't know, Greg, how about you get us started by telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do?
Oh, sure. My moniker is the Master Negotiator and Body Language Expert.
I've been teaching negotiation tactics and strategies for more than 30 years.
I know I don't look that old, for sure, and some of you better agree with me, but nevertheless, I've taught such in corporations, I've also been a body language consultant on, well, let's call it what it is, the TV reality show Love and Hip Hop in New York.
So I have an extensive background in both negotiations and reading body language, and I've also written seven books on those topics.
My mission, though, is to help as many people in the world that I can in order to teach teach them how to negotiate better, and read body language to enhance the negotiation process.
That is the gift that God has given to me that I wish to bestow upon those throughout the world.
I love this. And Greg, first question.
Now, this is a tough one.
Hypothetically, you said your goal is to help as many people as possible.
Perhaps, do you have any free resources that could help people in this endeavor?
Oh, I sure do. As a matter of fact, people can feel free to go to my website, site, which is themasternegotiator .com, click on blogs.
There's tons of free stuff there that I've written over the years.
I've written several thousand blogs over the years and articles, et cetera, et cetera, and they're all there for free.
So please feel free to partake of it.
Incredible. And now listeners, the reason I'm so excited to have Greg on the show is because we have all of the best negotiators in the world coming on the platform.
And Greg is not just one one of the best negotiators in the world.
He's also one of the top body language experts.
And that blend makes him very unique.
And one of the things that I've seen as a through line for all of these great negotiators is that they can adapt and flow.
They're flexible in their approach. And a big part of it, it almost seems like magic when you hear them describe it.
But I'm recognizing that one of the key abilities for this ability to flow is the ability to read body language.
And that's why I'm really excited to have you on.
So just before we get started, can you just give us a brief overview of what body language is and how it relates to negotiation?
Body language itself is something that adds an extra dimension to the way we project ourselves and the words we use to do so.
Now, that's a synopsis because as it relates to negotiation, someone can say, that's my best offer.
Now, folks may have observed that I literally leaned away as I was saying that.
Even that gesture can convey two different sentiments.
Number one, that's my best offer.
I want to get away from the statement.
That's my best offer.
And I'm sticking to it because I don't want to be any closer to you, the opposition, to whom I'm negotiating with.
So if someone saw that, knowing that there are two possible avenues that that particular display could convey, convey, one would follow up from a negotiation point of view of your best offer.
Now you notice the head tilt there, the inquisitiveness in which I actually conveyed my sentiments also.
So by saying something along the lines of your best offer, you're soliciting the person that emitted that first gesture to continue, to give you more insight, to give you more input from which you can then even slightly shift your perspective of how you present yourself from that point on.
Let's take it a step further.
And the person said, that's absolutely my best offer.
Now you notice the synchronization with the words and the finger coming down on the words I was pronouncing to add emphasis on that's my best offer.
You may have also noticed the deepening of my voice tonality as I said that.
That gesture also indicates a more seriousness now for that particular individual that's speaking those words per his mindset, his or her mindset, and the position in which they are taken at that moment in time.
So those are just some quick examples and there are tons of examples of how people should always observe body language in a negotiation to gather more information and insight.
So first of all listeners, if you're not subscribed to our our YouTube page or negotiate anything premium, you need to see this video because this is great.
This is a masterclass already, Greg.
Because what we're seeing is that there is often a difference between what somebody's words convey and then what their body conveys.
That's one thing. And then also when you understand body language, then you recognize that you can amplify your own message by synchronizing what your words are saying with your body language to make what you're saying a a lot more convincing.
This is incredibly powerful.
And I want to go back to what you said at the beginning.
Understanding body language gives us an extra dimension.
And when it comes to negotiation, ultimately it's an information game.
The more information we have, the better we're going to be.
And we recognize that if we are not paying attention to body language, or if we're on the phone or trying to negotiate via email, we're not even privy to being able to read the body language.
We're missing out on an incredible amount of information that can help us in the the negotiation.
Now, see, Kwame, you just shined again and showed why you're such an excellent negotiator too.
That was a great synopsis for sure.
There is definitely value add as you highlighted in being able to read body language.
And I'll add nonverbal communications because you spoke about being on the phone and not being able to see the gestures that someone may emit.
You can hear some of them though, in the way that they speak.
Someone just presented an offer to you and the person said i can do that at a hundred thousand dollars that's different from i can do that at a hundred thousand dollars which is even more different than i could do that at a hundred thousand now the same words were spoken but three different sentiments were conveyed via the tonality and pace at which someone emitted those words and thus if you observe even how they they say something.
When you can't see someone's body language gestures, you can still listen to their non -verbal cues and hear what's actually not seen and gather that as additional information from which you can reposition your offer or counter offer.
This is so cool. Because I think there's an element that could be almost overwhelming because you're saying, oh, wait a second, because I'm here talking to you, speaking English.
Okay, that's one thing that's occurring.
But then the same words delivered in different ways mean completely different things.
And then when we blend tonality with the body language, that's an additional thing for us to read.
And so again, it can feel overwhelming to say, oh my gosh, I didn't realize how much I was missing and how much more there is to observe.
But let's focus on that keyword observe, you need to start observing these things.
Because everybody started when it comes to reading body language and effective communication, we all started at ground zero.
And then we just started observing and trying to get incrementally better every single time.
So just start by paying attention.
That's the start. And now when we think about this, too, when we're thinking about the preparation it takes to come into the conversation, we're recognizing now that we We can't script these things because we're going to have to consistently make these reads and micro adjustments based on what we're getting from the other side.
Oh, that's a thousand percent correct.
And to the point of scripting how you think the negotiation is going to flow, you can initially do that.
And people should as they gather information about the entity with whom they will be negotiating.
The more you know about that entity, the better you can position yourself and also reposition yourself throughout the negotiation if by chance something occurs that you had planned for or did not plan for.
Because, to the degree that you are prepared, you will more likely be able to reach the outcome that you're seeking from the negotiation.
So, let's talk about preparation, if you wish.
And preparing for a negotiation, again, dependent upon to what degree it's worth it.
I have actually had clients that have hired private investigators to gather additional information, gone through social media channels to position how you, the negotiator, wanted that entity to be perceived by the other parties that may have had a stake that were not necessarily at the negotiation table, such that they've placed that individual in a particular position before the negotiation even starts.
And doing that, again, allows the plans that one can then implement to become more successful or not.
So there's a lot that goes into the negotiation.
And again, dependent upon how valuable the outcome is to you, you should take painstaking efforts to initially figure out who it is you're negotiating with, what are their triggers, what triggers you might want to invoke in them to get them to do certain things, and how it is that you're going to get back on track per where you thought you'd be at any one point in time in the negotiation to make sure that you continue down the path you've set forth.
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Click the link in the description to find out more elevate negotiate and succeed this is amazing okay and so i want to focus on what you said when you said positioning ourselves and repositioning ourselves because that shows that we're preparing with the anticipation that we will have to make these adjustments during the conversation and so we always have to make sure that we have our our north star our guiding light we're clear on our our interests and everything like that.
And then we can constantly reorient ourselves as things start to shift during the negotiation.
And so there is an art to this that is really, really powerful and almost hard to describe without experience, because we can talk about this theoretically, and we can give a lot of examples, but until you get out there and start to do it and put it into practice, that's when you're going to start to be able to make those reads and make those micro adjustments, because we can't always perfectly anticipate what's going going to happen next.
Oh again you're a thousand percent correct and I don't tell a lot of my friends this but I'll tell you okay.
I go to flea markets sometimes just to practice negotiation skills.
Now why flea markets?
Because a lot of times the vendors in that environment are very much accustomed to people saying well give me a better price or do better than that yada yada yada And thus, they are already susceptible to negotiating.
And I'll attempt to apply new strategies, new tactics, such as to see what type of feedback I get.
And truth be known, I'm able to hone my negotiation skills just by doing that, let alone in environments where literally millions of dollars are at stake with some of the negotiations that I actually engage in.
So to your point, the more people practice at becoming a better negotiator, the more insights they'll gain, and to the degree that they understand the value of the insights they gain, the better they will become at negotiating.
Observe what works in one particular environment, what doesn't work in a different environment, and also realize that which works today, even if it's with the same entity tomorrow, may not work for you.
in that environment simply because dynamics have changed.
The person woke up on the wrong side of the bed.
Somebody hollered at the individual and they have misplaced aggression that they're going to take out on you now.
So you need to be infused with all kinds of negotiation tactics to add as components of an overall strategy.
And the more tactics you understand and know how to utilize, again, the better you will become at negotiating and the more you will gain out of life.
life. Love this. It's like everything you say is a mic drop moment, but I refuse to end this interview.
So this is great. And I like the idea of the tactics as tools.
But then we think about the ability to make reads by paying attention to non -verbals and body language.
That is the nuance that allows us to pick the right tool at the right time.
I could go to Home Depot and fill my cart with a bunch of tools.
That doesn't mean that I know how or when to use it.
And so that That brings us to the timing aspect of all of this as well.
And so when you think about body language and timing within the context of a negotiation, what are some tips and pieces of advice that you have for the audience when it comes to timing what you say and what you do in negotiation?
I'll answer your question in the form of a live example that I used to use years ago.
Years ago, the airlines would allow the gate attendant or gate agent, I should say, to actually upgrade passengers.
And there were times when I'd observe what was occurring with that particular gate agent, especially if a flight was delayed or something of that nature.
And you've more than likely heard the story of the guy walking up and saying, well, don't you know who I am?
And the gate agent picks up the mic and goes, we have someone that doesn't know who they are or something like that, you know, as a joke type of thing.
But I've watched gate agents in the past be berated and then I'll walk up and I'll say something along the lines of where I did walk up and say, you know what?
I just want to commend you on the way that you actually handled that.
I know this delay is not your fault.
You're not flying the plane or anything else and everyone is taking it out on you.
I empathize with you.
And again, just wanted to say I appreciate the way that you're handling this because you really are a pro like that.
And then later on, I might go up and say, you know, just want to know if I can get you anything.
You know, I'm going to go over to the concession stand.
Do you want water, soda or something like that?
Nine times out of 10, they did say no. But then I'd go up again and I'd say, but just out of curiosity, are there any upgrade opportunities here?
Nine times out of 10, I'd get upgraded because I'd already the timing of which I made the offer was, number one, I positioned myself as being somebody concerned about the well -being of that agent.
Number two, I empathized with their situation.
And number three, I even gave them a compliment about the way they were handling the situation.
I'd already turned that person into an ally.
And of course, the law of reciprocity says we want to do good for those that do good towards us.
So that's just an example about how timing can truly be applied in a negotiation.
I love this example, because it's really clear that the timing really mattered.
Because let's say that the person did not have that horrible situation just occur to them.
And then you just went up, no compliment for previous behavior, no empathy for what just happened.
And you just say, hey, can I have an upgrade?
The likelihood of success is not as high as if you would have timed it the way that you did.
So it's a brilliant, brilliant example of timing.
Mm -hmm. And Kwame, let me just talk about the opposite of that too, because it does soften someone and thus in a negotiation, you have to be aware of when that tactic is being used against you.
Now, I'll cite another example that just happened a few days ago.
Someone came to my home and mentioned that, oh my gosh, you have a beautiful home.
It is so nice. You must be very proud to own this property like that.
And I'm thinking to myself, okay, I see what you're trying to do already.
And then the gentleman said something about, we can offer a particular service for yada, yada, yada, yada.
And I smiled at him.
I said, you know what?
I appreciate the compliment, number one, and the fact that you stopped by to offer the service.
We don't have a need right now, but nevertheless, I wish you the best of luck.
Thank you. So the point is, had I been more susceptible to his flattery, I may have said, well, come on in and tell me more.
And had I let him in, which is another point that all of your listeners and viewers should be observant of in a negotiation.
We, the negotiator that's attempting to take the negotiation down a particular path, is trying to control that particular environment.
Had I let that gentleman in the house, I would have extended a degree of control to him, whereby he could have then attempted to sell more of what it is that he was offering.
But again, you controlled the negotiation and I shut it down right at the door by thanking him and wishing him well.
And basically, I didn't say, now be on your way.
But I did say so through the gesture of good luck.
Thank you very much. That's the end of this negotiation, basically.
So much to explore with this too, because what we're recognizing here is that with expert negotiators, we understand what persuasive techniques work, how to use it, and the timing.
And so we can use it offensively for our own benefit.
And at the same time, because we know that, we understand when there is an expert persuader in front of us, we understand what they're going to do to us.
And then we could use that knowledge defensively to protect ourselves.
So, great negotiators not only know how to get what they want, they also know how to predict what other people are going to do and say and set up barriers appropriately.
Oh, again, very brilliantly synchronized statement that you just made for sure.
And here's even more to add on to exactly what you said.
It is, again, about control.
So, when we are planning how we think the negotiation will flow, that's something else that we should think about.
How is it that the other negotiator is going to try and persuade me to do this, that or the other?
What influences will they bring to bear on the negotiation in order to achieve their goal?
What leverage will they try and also apply?
You may see at the car dealerships, sometimes, unfortunately, some car salespeople will look directly at the male and they'll exclude the female.
And it's like, uh -uh, you better watch out because you don't know where the dynamics are as far as that couple is concerned.
And in some cases, it may be the female part of that relationship that's really making the decisions.
So you must know not only where power lies in a negotiation, but at the same time, you need to understand the dynamics within that power situation such that you are adaptive to someone glancing at the other member at a particular point.
based on something you said.
And the negotiations flow and it's like, oh boy, oh boy.
Okay. What just happened there?
Why did he, she look at her, him at that particular moment in time?
Those are all the nuances that go into making up not only the outcome of the negotiation, but how one should position themselves in order to take advantage of those little small snippets of insights they gather throughout the negotiation process.
And that's a great example of assumptions being fueled by the biases that we might hold.
And it's so important for us to recognize that in ourselves so then we don't allow ourselves to make poor strategic decisions during the negotiation.
Because in that example, you're likely to disrespect both parties at the same time, not just the woman in the relationship if it's a heterosexual couple, right?
Because we're going to say, all right, yes, of course she would be offended.
But if I were in that situation, I would be offended as well because you're disrespecting my spouse.
house. So understanding our biases, which could fuel our assumptions, which could then lead our body language to convey certain messages that undermine our goals.
It's so important. And again, we can see how layered and nuanced this is in order for us to be effective.
Oh my gosh. Boy, oh boy, boy.
You keep talking about how amazing this interview is.
I'm getting more and more amazed with it based on what you are saying.
Boy, let's talk about biases for a a moment because you're absolutely right about not only knowing the biases that may trigger different reactions within yourself, you should also make some form of assumptions about what may do so in the other person.
Because in certain situations, you may want to trigger some type of reaction in them such that you either get them out of their flow or place them in a better a position for you to allow the negotiation to flow better there's a phrase that some people myself included i well i work on not being triggered by it anymore but it's you people okay and you know i used to hear that and boy the alarm would go off in my mind the fire would start coming out of my ears smoke would come out of my ears etc etc and then i realized wait a minute that's a bias that i am triggered by those words and that's a bias
that i have and sometimes people People said it honestly.
You know, they weren't really trying to be more of a nincompoop is a word I use to be nice because there's an A word I could have used in that situation.
But, you know, they were honestly just making a statement with no ill intent meant.
And me, you said what?
You know, immediately, whoa, what did I do?
And, okay, boy, let's go right in on the body language on that one, too.
When someone is genuinely either excited or perturbed, they will tend to lean in to the degree they feel it's safe to do so.
That's number one. And you should observe that, too, because if somebody's leaning in, they're really saying, hey, I feel strongly about whatever we're discussing.
And here's another aspect about body language.
our bodies always attempt to stay synchronized with our to use your phrase true north how we really feel about a situation and that's why reading body language is so important because if by chance you internally feel as though you're not being completely forthright based on your internal guidance your internal core you will emit signals to try to make yourself feel better you know you see me rubbing the face or something of that nature for those that are listening because that's a comfort gesture you know i think i'm doing the best thing i could do in the world right now and somebody starts rubbing
their face or rubbing their hands together pay attention to that the body wants to stay in sync with the true feelings the person is experiencing and if that person is not really experiencing what they are feeling internally versus what they're saying verbally okay there's a mismatch and nine times out of ten follow the body language the reason reason I said nine times out of ten is because good negotiators all know so how to create an effect with their body language that may not necessarily be aligned with what they are saying.
The thing is, you then test them even further.
You know, you said a moment ago that was your best offer.
And then just let the pause hang out there and see what the person says.
And the person may say, well, yeah, I did.
Now, note how I said that.
Well, I did. That momentary stammering gives you more insight.
Wait a minute now. Maybe this person is not truthfully aligned with what they're saying per what they believe.
There's a mismatch there.
So again, you would probe.
You might probe by saying, if you could give a better offer, what might it be?
So now you're testing what the person said a moment ago versus the display they showed through their body language.
And why? Because you want to get more additional insights and information.
So there's so much that goes into not only reading body language and the value of it in a negotiation, but why it is so important in a negotiation.
Hey, Greg, one of the things I love to do is watch sports, like sports breakdowns in slow motion and have an expert break down what's happening with the experts on the field.
It blows my mind because they do these micro movements.
They'll try to they'll show something and they'll make a move not to truly commit to making the move, but to see how the person would react to that move.
And so then they're logging that information because then they know in a few minutes they're going to make another move because of the read that they made.
So bringing it back here, what we're recognizing is that sometimes experts negotiators will ask the same question again in a different way and then let that silence ride because they're making reads.
Reads. I'm going to throw this out here again, not necessarily because I want that verbal information, but I want that nonverbal information.
I want your body to tell me the information that I really want to know.
And then I'm going to make a read off of that.
So just this breakdown that you gave is so high level.
So I want to make sure that the listeners did not miss that.
Oh my gosh. And I love the way that you recap that for Dagoyshore.
You said it much more succinctly than I did.
Definitely so. And you're right.
It is worth highlighting, highlighting, bolding, putting an exclamation mark on it because there is truly value in so.
Man, this is good. I don't want this episode to end, but for the sake of time, we have to wrap it up.
But I'll leave you with one last question here.
Hypothetically, I feel like you should have written a book, maybe at least seven.
What do you think about that number?
How's that landing with you?
Well, I've done just that.
As I indicated earlier, I have written seven books on the topic book of negotiation and reading body language.
And I'm in the process of writing book number eight right now.
And, you know, again, my mission is to give back to people.
And I'm not seeking any form of compensation or compensation from being branded as yada, yada, yada, this expert or anything of that nature.
I'm extremely humble.
And I feel as though God has given me something He wanted others to have such that they can improve their lives.
And I say that genuinely from my heart to say, again, go to my website, themasternegotiator .com.
That's T -H -E -M -A -S -T -E -R -N -E -G -O -T -I -A -T -O -R .com.
Partake of all the free stuff that I have there.
my gift from you would be if you allowed me to be a gift to you oh that is powerful greg thank you so much for joining us really appreciate it oh call me thank you again for not only the invitation but for allowing me to help you serve more people that you already serve congratulations you've just You just joined an elite club.
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