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I'm Bowen Yang.
And I'm Matt Rogers.
During this season of the Two Guys, Five Rings podcast, in the lead up to the Milan Cortina 2026 Winter Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends.
Hi Bowen, hi Matt.
Hey Elmo.
Hey Matt, hey Bowen.
Hi Cookie.
Hi.
Now the Winter Olympic Games are underway and we are in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears.
Listen to Two Guys Five Rings on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
In the middle of the night, Saskia awoke in a haze.
Her husband, Mike, was on his laptop.
What was on his screen would change Saskia's life forever.
I said, I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing.
And immediately, the mask came off.
You're supposed to be safe.
That's your home.
That's your husband.
Listen to Betrayal Season 5 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio.
Good morning.
This is Laura.
Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast.
Today's episode is going to be a longer one part of the series where I interview fascinating people about how they take their days from great to awesome and any advice they have for the rest of us.
So today I am delighted to welcome Farnoosh Tarabi to Before Breakfast.
Farnoosh is a personal finance expert, host of the So Money podcast, author of many books, including A Healthy State of Panic and Psych Yourself Rich.
So Farnoosh, welcome to the show.
Thank you.
It's so great to be here and reconnect.
Yeah, I'm excited to chat with you again.
Why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself?
Well, I am.
For over 20 years I've been working as a financial journalist and content creator, educator.
I started as a journalist, but really the work has expanded to all sorts of communication around financial issues literacy,
I have a podcast as well.
I've written books.
I speak.
And I'm also a wife and a mom.
I'm not doing it all, but not all the time.
But over the years, it's accumulated.
Yeah.
How old are your kids now?
They are 8 and 11.
Girl, boy.
Girl, boy.
And we are recording this in January, where those of us on the East Coast are preparing for a giant snowstorm apparently.
Yeah, I just got back from the grocery store.
I thought I was ahead of it.
I was like, I'm going to get there before everybody else.
Everyone's there.
Everyone's there.
I got there before all the water and meat was gone, though.
Yeah, yeah.
Although it's slightly interesting.
I mean if your kids will have virtual school the Monday or whatever.
It's gotten a little easier as they get older, right?
Well, it's gotten in some ways easier, but I miss the days where they together would play well together.
They are getting more on each other's nerves.
So the yelling and the screaming has intensified when they're all under one roof.
And so we also need to go to the wine store before the blizzard arrives.
That's on our to-do list.
You're getting salt, gas in the car, and wine. for when that inevitable need arrives.
So how did you wind up in the personal finance business?
Oh my gosh.
Well, I studied finance at Penn State.
That was my degree.
My intention was to go in and be a finance person working in finance department or Wall Street, maybe even.
But pretty quickly into that degree.
Studying at Penn State I realized you know well I like the idea of this.
I like the stories behind this.
I like studying companies and corporate structure.
I love storytelling.
I've always loved storytelling.
I've always been drawn to journalism and being on a stage even, and like the creative side of of work in life.
And I thought, is there a way for me to not abandon this?
You know I want to use what I've invested so far and finish the degree, but maybe do a pivot.
That isn't such a hard right.
And I realized, you know, it was around 2002 and we had a lot of scandal in the financial world.
Wall Street was becoming Main Street news.
We had a lot of white collar crime.
And I don't know, I just felt like CNBC was becoming a thing.
And I felt like there was a market now for financial journalism more than ever before.
So I thought hmm, maybe there's a way to combine what I'm already studying at Penn State with journalism.
So right after Penn State I entered into the Columbia's journalism program for graduate school and really just hit the ground from there.
There weren't a lot of people like me at the time who were...
I'm consciously trying to do this at least.
And so that I will.
I will say that contributed a lot to my early success.
Just kind of like knowing what you wanted to do early on.
Didn't know if it was going to stick, but I ended up loving it.
And even within the personal, even within, like the whole financial reporting world.
Finding a niche within that was important.
And for me, it was personal finance.
It wasn't so much following the crooks in the business world.
That was definitely someone else's job.
But for me it was like trying to help people with their money, trying to help people dissect their retirement plans.
And especially young people and women, because I felt like that was a very underserved market.
Yeah.
And so you've done a lot of different iterations of that.
I mean, you've done TV, you've done print, you've done all sorts of different things for that.
And so we've seen a lot of different people's lives.
I'm curious, what is a money goal you would like to see more people set?
I would love to see more people believe that they can be wealthy.
I know that so many of us are just trying to get to zero.
And that's understandable.
We have an incredibly huge debt crisis in our country, led by student loans and, of course, credit cards.
And just the idea of getting to a day where you don't have debt is the dream come true for so many of us.
And I really want us to push that goal further, especially again for women.
I think that we've often been sold this narrative of like complacency.
Right.
And also to have someone else take care of our financial life for us.
And I want us to be more aspirational in our financial lives.
And if that means, you know, making more money, clearing our debt and then making more money.
I want that for everybody financially.
I want more people to feel more empowered around their finances, to feel more in control around their finances and also to just be more curious about it too, to ask the questions.
Money is still such a taboo topic and it keeps us from playing big.
And that's what I want.
That's what I want for everybody.
Yeah.
Well, and especially you talk about this with women.
I feel like a lot of the literature and stuff aimed at women is more focused on the frugality part of it.
Like don't waste your money on expensive handbags or something like that, whatever for stereotypically buying.
But not so much about like, you know, you have a life you want.
Here's what you need to do to make sure that you can produce this life that you want for you and your family.
Exactly.
Yeah, I remember leaving college and even for me someone again who studied finance and was raised to really feel independent and want that independence early on I was like wow, you know when will my life start.
And I realized it's like now.
And I don't know if it was me being a woman or what, but I do.
I sensed it in my female friends in my 20s, where we almost felt like our lives couldn't really start until we met someone right.
You know, and maybe it was like the guy who would come and like support us and would have the bigger salary and then our dreams would come true.
And then we could finally buy the house and then we could finally have the kids.
And I want to tell women, like you know, your life starts now and you're in charge, and it's you're driving the ship.
And the earlier that you can start to figure out how to support yourself is.
And invest in your future.
Look, you know, your Prince Charming or your Princess Charming may come still.
And that's great.
Like have that also be a goal, but not to be the only goal.
And sometimes we just wait for that.
And at the expense of losing out on our independence and our financial future.
Absolutely.
Well, we're going to take a quick ad break and then I will be back with more from Farnoosh Torabi.
We'll be right back.
Think podcasting can help your business?
Think iHeart.
Streaming, radio, and podcasting.
Let us show you at iHeartAdvertising.com.
That's iHeartAdvertising.com.
In the middle of the night, Saskia awoke in a haze.
Her husband Mike was on his laptop.
What was on his screen would change Saskia's life forever.
I said, I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing.
And immediately, the mask came off.
You're supposed to be safe.
That's your home.
That's your husband.
To keep this secret for so many years, he's like a seasoned pro.
This is a story about the end of a marriage, but it's also the story of one woman who was done living in the dark.
You're a dangerous person who preys on vulnerable and trusting people.
Your creditor might go up in good.
Listen to Betrayal Season 5 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm Bowen Yang.
And I'm Matt Rogers.
During this season of the Two Guys, Five Rings podcast, in the lead up to the Milan Cortina 2026 Winter Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends.
Hi Bowen, hi Matt.
Hey Elmo.
Hey Matt, hey Bowen.
Hi Cookie.
Hi.
Now the Winter Olympic Games are underway and we are in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears.
Listen to Two Guys Five Rings on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Talking with Farnoosh Torabi, who is a personal finance expert, host of the So Money podcast.
So interestingly, you know I said you've went through all these different iterations in your career of the different kinds of personal finance journalism.
You've done with you know, making a brand for yourself.
And I saw that one of the things you do in addition to personal finance work is coaching people online.
Personal branding.
I wonder if you could talk a little bit on that.
Is there something you wish you had known when you were starting out about building the brand?
That is Farnoosh.
Yeah.
I think that I felt like someone had to give me permission to put myself out there and believe in myself.
Gosh, I always felt like I had to And I, you know, arm myself with more credentials.
You know, there was a moment in my career, despite the fact that I had been doing what I was doing for a decade, and I had all this experience helping people, all these I had books.
I was like maybe I should get a license in financial planning, because then people will take me seriously.
And sure, maybe that is something credible to do, but that's a whole different career path.
But for some reason I thought like I need this because otherwise I'm going to miss out on more speaking opportunities and people won't take me seriously.
And I still hear this from especially women who are educated, experienced.
They have clients and they are worried that they're not going to get press or the media won't care about their story or won't want to feature them as experts because they don't have say—.
10,000 followers on Instagram, or they don't have already a huge track record in the press.
And so we're always like getting in our way.
We're always finding excuses for why we're not that special.
And I'm here to say like you have it, you know it's like we.
It goes back to what Sheryl Sandberg said in Lean In, like when men apply for a job and If they can qualify for about 30 of the bulleted requirements for the job they're going to apply.
For women it's like I need to have all of the.
I need to qualify for everything before I will put myself on for a possible, before I apply.
So I see that in the entrepreneurial world as well, where we are our biggest enemies.
Sometimes we are our biggest critics, and why, you know?
I don't know, maybe it's just the imposter syndrome, which I know is also like a fabricated thing too, but I ran up against that.
And I still see that now in my clients.
And I'm just here to tell them, you have what it takes.
And if you want evidence of that, look at the people who are being featured online.
If you're looking for exposure and press and...
That's what I often help them with is like getting out there more.
Right.
Getting more eyeballs on their work.
I mean practically, like I was saying OK well, I have this expertise and I want to put myself out there.
What does that mean?
Like you should be just reaching out constantly, like thinking about, you know, story angles.
Like what would you recommend?
First, it's about a couple things.
One is, what is your expertise?
What do you want to help people with, right?
And what are the three to five things?
Big ideas that you have, the counterculture ideas maybe, that you have, or
Maybe you see something in the news and you're like I want to share an opinion about that and root it in my expertise.
But also, who's your audience?
Because you don't want to be pitching everywhere, right?
There's probably like three to five outlets that make the most sense for you.
Sometimes it is general news, but sometimes it's a very niche topic.
Outlet publication, a trade magazine.
So it's doing a lot of that homework first to kind of understand where your audience is hanging out and what is your goal for this press right.
Is it just to get out there?
To get out there and get those um, you know, those press labels on your website, which is definitely fine.
Like in the beginning, that helps to boost your credibility.
But after that, what's the goal, right?
Is it to have people find you and have those people ultimately come work with you?
Is it to promote your book?
Is it to promote your workshop, whatever it is.
So maybe that it's catering what you're putting out there to that, so that it aligns with what product you're selling or service you're selling.
So that's kind of the algorithm, so to speak.
And then the pitch, right?
It's figuring out who is behind that media outlet on the receiving end and then creating an authentic relationship, first with that person.
I don't often say like cold pitches are fine.
They work.
But if you can find a way to first make a connection with this person that has nothing to do with selling anything to them, I find that that's always playing the long game, in other words, is always a great strategy.
But of course, if you have something immediate on your to-do list, like you have a book that you're selling, I get that.
But I find that building those bridges really do pay off.
And these days, everybody's online, right?
Journalists are online.
The other way you could do it is just write your own articles.
A lot of places take contributor pieces.
So that's another thing that I coach people on how to do that, how to write for those publications and get them in the right hands.
Absolutely.
Sounds good.
Well, what does a day tend to look like for you right now, as you're managing, you know your many parts of your business, your different hats you're wearing.
Well, lately, it's a lot of staying local to my neighborhood here in Montclair, New Jersey.
I used to travel to New York more often.
I used to live in New York City, but during COVID we moved to the suburbs about 15 miles outside of the city.
This is a big commuter town.
I started a local podcast about my town.
So that, in addition to the personal finance, work has taken over a lot of my sort of business career time.
And so I'm really tethered to being here.
I've become suddenly like a local journalist again.
So my day is pretty much, mornings is doing the school rush, getting my kids off to the bus.
And that starts around 6.30 a.m. we live in a magnet school district.
So we have six, seven elementary schools.
We don't have like a neighborhood school that we go to.
So my kids get on the very early bus to go, you know, to the school uptown.
And um.
Then after that it's usually getting a workout in and then it's starting work and then work work work work, work until probably four, 35 um, with some breaks to eat, maybe get a stretch in meetings, sometimes going in and out of the house.
You're working from home, right?
So it's like putting in a load of laundry, putting in a load of dishes.
I'm a neat freak, so I'm constantly tidying up.
It's a problem, probably takes a lot of time out of my day.
I can't help it.
But also I feel like it makes me more focused and And I need those resets.
I need like to constantly reset.
I'm pretty good at powering through work, but I do need those quick little resets, whether it's getting up and getting a drink of water, getting up and just putting in a load of the dishes and then coming back and then powering through another hour of work.
So I know that about me.
And then once my son comes home from school around 2.30, he's pretty self-sufficient.
He's 11.
He does his homework.
He knows not to bother me.
But I won't lie, like dinners, we like to have a family dinner, but not always do I make it.
I think probably I get about 40 to 50% of the week is a home cooked meal.
And by home cooked, I'm not fancy about it.
It's usually like, three or five ingredients.
And the other day we're ordering.
And that is just because neither one of us really enjoys cooking and it's convenient.
So, you know, I'm not proud of that, but that's just how it's working out right now.
And yeah, That's my weekday.
I mean, sometimes I go into the city, but seldom, really.
And when I do go into the city, it's like I want to stack the day, try to really get in, make it productive, get a haircut in, get a media hit in a meeting and be back before dinner.
Yeah.
Well, I love to hear that a personal finance expert is okay with ordering dinner, if that's the thing that makes life work for you.
We budget for it.
It's, you know, and we also, you know we, what we really want to try to do is have the family dinners, you know, and if that means we have to order in cause, that's the quickest thing to do to be able to have that family dinner, because then at six o'clock my daughter has to go to basketball.
And if that, you know, I'm really, it's about priorities, right?
In the long run, I think I'm going to be less upset about the fact that I maybe overspent a little bit on eating out and I'll be more happy that we got to eat together.
I believe it.
All right.
Well, we're going to take one more quick ad break and then I'll be back with more from Farnoosh Torabi.
I'll see you next time.
Think podcasting can help your business?
Think iHeart.
Streaming, radio, and podcasting.
Let us show you at iHeartAdvertising.com.
That's iHeartAdvertising.com.
In the middle of the night, Saskia awoke in a haze.
Her husband Mike was on his laptop.
What was on his screen would change Saskia's life forever.
I said, I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing.
And immediately, the mask came off.
You're supposed to be safe.
That's your home.
That's your husband.
To keep this secret for so many years, he's like a seasoned pro.
This is a story about the end of a marriage, but it's also the story of one woman who was done living in the dark.
You're a dangerous person who preys on vulnerable and trusting people.
Your creditor might go up in good.
Listen to Betrayal Season 5 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm Bowen Yang.
And I'm Matt Rogers.
During this season of the Two Guys, Five Rings podcast, in the lead up to the Milan Cortina 2026 Winter Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends.
Hi Bowen, hi Matt.
Hey Elmo.
Hey Matt, hey Bowen.
Hi Cookie.
Hi.
Now the Winter Olympic Games are underway and we are in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears.
Listen to Two Guys Five Rings on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
I am back talking with Farnoosh Torabi, who is a personal finance expert, host of the So Money podcast, plus a local one about Montclair, New Jersey.
What's the name of that one?
The Montclair Pod.
The Montclair Pod.
Okay.
So for my listeners who are interested living in Montclair, New Jersey, or who are otherwise drawn to- Montclair, Curious.
Montclair Curious.
You can listen to that.
So you've been talking a little bit about things that make you more productive, like taking little breaks during the day.
I'm curious if there are any other strategies you use to make yourself more productive.
Well, I have been picking up the phone and calling instead of text and email.
And you know sometimes when you're for example, I have a co-host on the Montclair pod, Michael.
We've known each other for 25 years.
We share a brain at this point.
He lives in town and it's partly why this podcast has been so successful.
He's Gen X. I am right on the cusp.
And I find that the Gen Xers love to talk on the phone.
He will call.
And it's gotten a little getting used to for me because I've been a big texter.
He will call.
He will FaceTime sometimes and call.
And it's very off-putting sometimes because if you're not used to it.
But it's actually been really good because a phone call you can get so much done in 15 minutes than trying to explain something over 80 texts.
And then, you know...
It's also distracting if you're trying to manage dinner time with your family.
So it's just like taking that 10 minutes to have the phone call.
And it's just easier multitasking too.
You can put it on audio.
So that analog hack has been actually a great thing. productivity thing for me.
And I really thank my Gen X friend for incorporating that into my workflow.
For reminding you that you can, in fact, use your phone as a phone.
Yes.
Yes.
I know.
It's crazy, crazy enough.
What does your planning process look like?
My planning process.
Well, we have.
My husband and I have a shared Google calendar and I have multiple calendars within the calendar.
So there's my work calendar, but even within my work calendar, I break it out to my podcast calendar.
There's a personal calendar for me.
It's all color coded.
There's the Montclair pod calendar.
There's the shared calendar with my husband.
I
I share a calendar with my work husband, Michael.
And so I know what he's up to.
And that's kind of how I stay aware of everyone's whereabouts, including my own.
And when I, everyone says, how do you book so many guests on your podcast?
I have two guests per week.
Do you have a booker?
How does it work?
I say, I have a scheduling link.
I send this out.
People choose their own dates, but I block dates on that scheduling calendar so that I give myself basically peace during the week.
So I'm not doing podcasts at all times.
So the podcasts are sort of reserved for certain days of the week and even just certain blocks during the day.
So I try to budget my... the different things that I'm doing during the week.
And I try to do nothing on Fridays.
I really try to have.
Not that I'm doing nothing on Fridays.
I should say I take that back.
No calls on Fridays, no big meetings on Fridays.
That keeps me at my desk.
I will go out and have meetings.
I might have coffee with a friend on Fridays.
I like to use Fridays and really starting on Thursdays, Thursdays and Fridays to go out of the house and see people in person locally.
Because Monday through Wednesday is a real mad dash.
We publish the Montclair pod on Thursdays.
So it's a lot of work tethered to my desk Monday to Wednesday.
And then Thursday, Friday, I like to just kind of get out and get some fresh air.
Yeah, and actually see Montclair if you're going to be talking about it.
Yeah, precisely.
So what is something you have done recently to take a day from great to awesome?
Yeah, I'm really proud of this.
I, on a Sunday, my best friend was in town from Philadelphia.
She was in New York, actually, not even in Montclair.
And, you know, I already said I don't love going into New York unless I have to.
And she was in town and she said, do you wanna hang out today?
And it was a Sunday.
And my kids are a lot, Sundays are busy.
And I said, sure.
And my husband's great.
He's not gonna, but even still, I think as a parent with growing kids, you do feel like it's a lot like to take yourself away from that life.
And then, but I was so happy to do it.
I just, I took, I didn't even go on a train.
I drove, which is Unlike me.
I always like to take the train, but I was like I'm just going to drive.
I'm going to drive into the city.
And then I realized actually how easy this is.
I should do this more often.
I saw her.
I got parking on the street.
I felt like I'd won the lottery.
And then we went and we just did a little window shopping.
We had a nice lunch.
We caught up.
And It's just a reminder, especially in midlife, how important your relationships are outside of your family, your friendships.
My friend and I, Kate, we've been friends since the first day of college.
And I need that.
She needs that.
We all need that.
And it would have been such a shame if I had said no.
And I could have easily said no.
And she would have understood.
I think we all kind of understand how life can get at this stage.
But I was so happy that I did.
And of course, I came home to a little bit of a mess, but that's OK.
You just spend more time cleaning up.
They will survive.
Everyone will survive.
Yeah, I mean, I was terrified of driving into New York for ages.
And then I did.
And I was like, oh, yeah, people do this all the time.
And they're not better drivers than I am.
So no, it was actually, you know, Sundays can be hit or miss going into the city.
There can be during especially during a parade.
Exactly.
We've gotten stuck in so much traffic.
I do have some PTSD driving into the city on weekends, but I checked the traffic.
Nothing seemed to be going on.
And like I said, I got free parking on the street.
It was unprecedented.
As good as you can get with stuff like that.
Yeah, it does take a day from great to awesome when your parking is free.
So, Furnish, what are you looking forward to?
Well, I'm really looking forward to making local news great again.
And you read about so many local papers.
Shuttering and just media in general is having a really rough road.
And I started my career actually in local news.
We don't even really talk about that.
But even with the financial news path that I've been on, I started doing that locally.
I worked at New York One News as a business news producer, talking about the local economy and small businesses.
And I've done a kind of a full circle now.
And now I cover everything.
I cover education and restaurants and all that.
But I really love doing it through a podcast.
I think it's people are listening.
People are engaged again.
It's really a validating a validating exercise.
And we won an award last year for one of the best local podcasts in the country.
And so we're just hoping to build on that momentum.
And I don't think I can.
We're nowhere near abandoning the personal finance business that I've built.
But I do think I'm building something where in 10 years I can step into this, perhaps full-time, and maybe even have it be a legacy business.
It's not about me, this Montclair pod.
It's really about giving back to the community.
My daughter's eight and she said, will this still be around when I'm in high school?
Because she's into it.
She wants to contribute.
And I'm excited for that.
You didn't ask about.
You asked about, probably this year, what I'm excited about, but I'm excited about this being something that my kids can participate in.
I don't think they want to take over the So Money podcast, but I think they'd be into the Montclair pod.
Excellent.
Excellent.
Farnoosh, where can people find you?
Yeah.
You can find me on the So Money Podcast, somoneypodcast.com, three days a week.
And as well if you are in the Essex County area in Jersey, the Montclair Pod.
We actually have a majority of our audience outside of Montclair.
People who left and still want to know what Montclair is doing.
We think they're the park slopers in Brooklyn who are...
Often the ones moving here and they want to know what's it really like.
Yeah, exactly.
Awesome.
Well, Farnoosh, thank you so much for joining us.
Thank you to everyone for listening.
If you have feedback on this or any other episode, you can always reach me at laura, at lauravandercamcom.
In the meantime, this is Laura.
Thanks for listening.
And here's to making the most of our time.
Thanks for listening to Before Breakfast.
If you've got questions, ideas or feedback, you can reach me at Laura at LauraVanderkam.com.
Before Breakfast is a production of iHeartMedia.
For more podcasts from iHeartMedia, please visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
I'm Bowen Yang.
And I'm Matt Rogers.
During this season of the Two Guys, Five Rings podcast, in the lead up to the Milan Cortina 2026 Winter Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends.
Hi Bowen, hi Matt.
Hey Elmo.
Hey Matt, hey Bowen.
Hi Cookie.
Hi.
Now the Winter Olympic Games are underway and we are in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears.
Listen to Two Guys Five Rings on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
In the middle of the night, Saskia awoke in a haze.
Her husband Mike was on his laptop.
What was on his screen would change Saskia's life forever.
I said, I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing.
And immediately, the mask came off.
You're supposed to be safe.
That's your home.
That's your husband.
Listen to Betrayal Season 5 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Over the last couple years?
Didn't we learn that the folding chair was invented by black people?
Because of what happened in Alabama.
This Black History Month, the podcast Selective Ignorance with Mandy B unpacks black history and culture with comedy, clarity and conversations that shake the status quo.
The Crown Act in New York was signed in July of 2019 and that is a bill that was passed to prohibit discrimination based on hairstyles associated with race.
To hear this and more, listen to Selective Ignorance with Mandy B from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
This is an iHeart Podcast.
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