What if every promotion you've ever been passed over for went to someone who was simply better at building allies?
You've been there.
The meeting where your brilliant idea gets ignored.
The promotion went to someone less qualified but more connected.
Watching colleagues with half your experience become the go-to leaders, while you stay heads down and invisible.
Meet Ronen Olshansky, one of the world's leading experts in relational intelligence and CEO of Connected Success.
After early success on Wall Street and scaling his company cross-campus into LA's premier coworking network with seven locations and over 3000 members, Ronen discovered the secret that separates good performers from great leaders.
In this episode, you'll discover how to build strategic relationships without feeling fake.
The specific language that transforms networking from transactional to transformational, and why soft skills are now the ultimate competitive advantage in an AI driven world.
Plus, we're tackling a real listener challenge.
How do you become a connector when you've always been the efficient heads down operator who thought your work should speak for itself?
Whether you're leading hybrid teams, building influence without authority, or tired of watching less competent but more connected people get ahead, this conversation gives you the tools to turn relationship building into career rocket fuel.
Are you ready to make your relationships your competitive advantage?
Let's dive in.
I'm pumped for this because we have had a lot of folks on the podcast talking about communication persuasion, and networking has been something that came on before.
But your approach is very nuanced and unique and I think optimized for the modern times.
But before we get into what it is that we're trying to accomplish with this episode, I want you to paint a picture for the person who's listening and answer this question.
So, if they're able to take what it is that we learned today and put it into action, what in their life changes?
I mean, the power of the relationships, right?
I mean, without sounding too cliche, right?
We've all heard these things.
We are the people that we surround ourselves with.
No one ever gets there alone.
Your network is your net worth.
The people around you really define not just your business success, but even the research shows satisfaction in life right.
It's not just about the journey, but having people go along that journey with you makes it that much sweeter, right.
So I would argue that with relationships, I mean, everything can change.
Yes, I agree 100%.
And it seems like it's gotten harder for people to create and maintain those relationships.
And I know a lot of people they feel it, but it's tough to put your finger on what it is that's causing that.
In your opinion, based on all the work that you've done, what do you think are the biggest barriers that are new in the last few years that are making it harder for people to connect and build relationships?
Yeah.
So it's interesting.
It's ironic.
It's gotten harder, but it's also the best time in the world for being excellent at relationship building.
So what holds us back?
One is something called filter failure.
We know thousands of people.
Where do I start is a common thing that the people that I coach ask.
I'm overwhelmed.
That's one.
The other one is we are still kind of coming out of the pandemic where everyone sort of leaned a little bit more introvert.
And I think we're all a little bit rusty now.
We're starting to go to conferences again.
Some of us are starting to go back to the office again.
Guess what?
The awkward water cooler conversation.
That's the thing again.
You know what I mean?
So those are things that I think make it a little bit more challenging today.
But you know, on the other side of that Kwame you can press a button, get on a Zoom and meet anyone on the planet.
I mean, think about that for the prior generation of folks in the working world.
That is insane.
That's a huge opportunity.
Yeah, you're right.
And it's something that we really take for granted.
I remember a few months ago I was watching the Jetsons with my family and just teaching Kai the classics.
And it was so funny to look back on it and seeing somebody pop up on a screen and they talk to each other and they're like this is what the future is going to be like.
And that's where we are right now.
And it's become so normal that we just really take it for Yeah.
So it's incumbent on us now to maximize that opportunity to do as much with it as possible.
And that's everything from like making sure your zoom game is up to par to you know, making sure you understand the dynamics of conversation right.
Something that I'm sure you cover.
You know a lot in your program the psychology of how people connect and build rapport.
You've got to be great at all those things, sort of this well-rounded game.
Yes, I agree.
And before we get too much into the nitty gritty, I want to get into your history too, because for you you have a background not just in relationship building but actually community building.
And I'm wondering for you, the work that you do now, not even compared to connected to the work that you did before what would you say is the nexus between community building and individual relationship building?
Wow, it's a great question.
I mean, you know there's that whole steve jobs connecting the dots forward in your career.
When i was in my 20s, i left new york, i moved to brazil and opened a bar on an island in brazil no joke, one of the best years of my life.
But already i was passionate about creating shared experiences, bringing people together.
You know, fast forward a decade, 2012 I started a business in Los Angeles called Cross Campus.
And we grew that to be the biggest community-based workspace in LA.
We competed head-to-head with WeWork.
We had 5,000 members at the peak.
I raised tens of millions of dollars to grow that business.
But again it was bringing people together, creating shared experiences and creating community in the workplace together.
Now I'm training people in these cohorts from all over the world.
So again, you see that community and experience come in.
My business partner, Keith Ferrazzi, who you had on the program, I think, a little while back.
He's got this great way of thinking about networking and the challenge is to go beyond thinking about your network and to think about creating communities, putting yourself at the middle of a community, figuring out who you want to serve, what they care about and how you can serve them.
That's the next level in quote unquote networking.
I think that's, that's powerful.
Okay, we i don't want to just kind of do that as a drive-by here, rohan because that's really great, because that, that really that takes it to truly a new, a new level, because now you're going to be connecting with a greater level of intentionality and for me, when i think about a community, I think about serving a community and not even in like a charitable community service type of way.
But if I'm part of a community, everybody has a responsibility to be in service of one another.
And so then it's really optimizing those relationships.
Because when I'm in a community, I don't think about extraction of value from somebody else.
But I think a lot of times when we consider the idea of networking, Sometimes inappropriately, people just think about it selfishly as extraction of value.
But if we think of ourselves at the center of a hub, it really changes our mindset.
Using this community focused lens.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Think about it this way.
The community is not about you.
You're not the brand, right?
You are just the facilitator of the community.
So let's take a real world example.
You're a software, say enterprise software sales rep, right?
Yeah.
Yeah, you want to sell, let's say, HR software to the community.
But if you bring people together and say I'm hosting a dinner and we're going to talk about how this software can help your business that serves you,
That doesn't work.
Now instead, if you said hey, we're going to bring together a bunch of leaders people strategists, and we're going to talk about why resilience is at an all-time low and why people are struggling to find meaning at work,
And I've got some great folks.
I'd like you to join that discussion.
Now you're creating a community that's brand adjacent to you.
But look, let's be honest, right?
Kwame, it could still serve your interest at the end of the day, but it doesn't directly serve your interest.
That's the nuance here.
Yes.
And people can feel that difference too.
And I think that's one of the things that holds people back from networking effectively.
Um, because it's almost like a dirty word.
There's a lot of negative stigma around it and i think maybe i'm wrong on this, maybe this is just me, but i feel like it's because we all have been networked at some time, or it's like they throw their, they throw their business cards like ninja stars and you're just like, oh please.
You're talking to someone at a conference and they're looking over your shoulder at the next person.
You're like, come on, right?
I mean, it's the hunter-hunted mentality that gives the word a bad rap.
Sometimes, to be honest with you, I prefer using the term relationship development.
Let's focus on developing your relationships and not take this word network and turn it into a verb, basically.
I agree, because that was going to be my next question, because I was, because I know for us, with negotiation, we're in this.
I don't I don't want to call it an identity crisis.
It's an identity opportunity.
Right.
Right.
We because I'm recognizing that people are afraid of the word negotiation.
But then, when they hear us talk about it, they don't feel as though we're talking about negotiation, even though we are.
So we're thinking about how do we rebrand in a way that is still true to what it is that we want to accomplish, without running face first into predictable biases.
So I'm thinking for you all.
In the future, how do you see the word networking as being part of your strategy going forward?
Yeah.
It's so funny because sometimes in our program I'll ask people, I'll do a poll and I'll say okay, you know, raise your hand if you like the word, if you, if you don't mind the word networking or if you don't, some people just don't give a shit.
Sorry to, sorry to, Hello, my friends.
Before we get back to today's episode, I want to ask you a question.
Have you ever wondered how to elevate your team's negotiation game and how you can help the folks on your team have better difficult conversations?
At the American Negotiation Institute, we offer transformative keynotes and workshops tailored to empower professionals with top tier negotiation and conflict resolution skills.
Whether it's a keynote for your next event or hands on training for your team, we've got you covered.
Don't just negotiate.
Master the art with the American Negotiation Institute.
Click the link in the description to find out more.
Elevate, negotiate and succeed.
I mean, some people don't give a damn and other people are like well, it's a little bit of a slimy word.
But let's get beyond the word.
The reality is this.
Human beings, for the most part, let's put aside like sociopaths for a second.
The vast majority of us do not like feeling transactional.
It's why, for example, when you fall out of touch with someone, one of the things that I coach all the time is like, instead of seeking newness, instead of going out and thinking about who can I meet that search for novelty?
You've got a bunch of gold you can mine in your existing network.
Think about if you go back in your calendar a year, and this is something that I urge people to do every week.
Go back, like scroll back a year.
You will find someone you're like, oh, man, I met with that person.
I had a great conversation.
We connected.
We said we'd follow up.
I did.
And then it fizzled out.
Like, look there.
Right.
And the reason part of the reason why we don't want to reach back out is because we're afraid that the person is going to think well, what does he want from me?
Like, we don't want to seem transactional.
And so what we teach is a mindset shift from transactional to relational.
And once you make that mindset shift and you build your networking system around that A, it ends up feeling better to you.
B, it ends up being more effective, more authentic.
It just works better.
So that's an important mindset shift for sure.
100%.
And I feel as though, and you're the expert in this, tell me what you think.
I feel like if you don't have that mindset shift, no matter what comes next, the approaches that you use, there's going to be something that's a little bit off.
Exactly.
And it's funny, the first two weeks of the eight-week program is all about shifting from myths to mindset shifts and getting past limiting beliefs.
What holds us back to mindset shifts?
It's so critical in anything you do.
And it's funny because when we look at the stats on people who went through this program, they often come in saying things like I need a system.
I'm overwhelmed, I need to know what to do, when to do it.
So I want the practices and the system.
And when we ask them at the end of it, what was the most transformational?
They're like a hundred percent of mindset shifts.
Like it changed the way I view relationships as a whole, not just how I meet people and, you know, get them to like me, for example.
So yeah, mindset's critical in anything you do.
You've got to set up for success.
I agree.
And let's talk about the transformations that you've seen.
And I know you've coached hundreds of people and seen some epic transformations.
But I want to see if there is anybody who has really stood out with the difference between where they were when they started versus where they were at the end.
Yeah, I mean, it's pretty mind-blowing.
It's actually quite humbling and inspiring.
We've got people coming from all over the world.
So let's start there.
Like when Keith and I first launched this thing, I was a bit worried, right?
Like?
Can we teach people a common system and language and framework, whether they come from Poland, Singapore or Texas?
And what we found is that we can.
There are certainly some people that come into it with a little bit more of a cultural or a family background that holds them back.
Things like, don't let them see you, you know, don't show weakness, don't help people too much.
They'll take advantage of you.
My family, for example, is from a Soviet background.
I mean, if you look at the Soviet Union and the people that came out of that, that environment, They've got that programmed into their DNA that it's like never.
You know, if you expose yourself to someone you might end up in a gulag, you know, three months later.
So so I guess you know, coming back to your, to your point, there are people who come into this and they take out much more than just networking systems and tools and practices.
It fundamentally changes how they view relationships internally, how they view vulnerability, how easy it is for them to open up.
By the way, how easy it is for them to ask for help.
That's the other ironic thing is that it's really hard for us as humans to ask for help a lot of the time.
And keep them coming back with powerful automations.
But here's where it gets really exciting.
Meet Ora, Brevo's AI assistant.
Ora helps you to craft smarter campaigns by suggesting personalized content, optimizing send times and even analyzing performance data to help you improve your strategy in real time.
It's like having a marketing expert on your team 24-7.
Transcription by CastingWords Just head to wwwbrevocom.
Slash anything and take your marketing further with Brevo and Aura.
All right, let's talk about something that's actually a negotiation skill.
Taking care of yourself before you show up to negotiate with anybody else.
Because if you're tired, stressed and running on fumes, you're going to make worse decisions, period.
And that's why i'm a huge fan of cozy earth.
Cozy earth's whole mission is to elevate the everyday with obsessive detail and better materials.
So you can feel it immediately.
Their bamboo pajama set that's made from viscose, from bamboo, is unbelievably soft.
It drapes really nicely and the classic cuddle blanket.
That thing is dangerous because once you wrap up in it, you're not getting anything done.
It's plush, it has a comforting weight, and makes your home feel like a reset button.
And here's the best part.
It is completely risk-free.
Cozy Earth gives you a 100-night sleep trial and a 10-year warranty, so they really stand behind the quality.
So this month, show a little extra love to someone you care about or yourself.
Go to CozyEarth.com and use my code Kwame for up to 20% off.
And if you get a post-purchase survey, make sure to let them know that you heard about Cozy Earth right here.
So we see all of those transformations and people are like man.
I went into this thing looking for X and Y, but man, I got Z out of it and it's great.
Incredible.
And I think this is a great opportunity to dig down into the psyche of humanity, because I hear that all the time.
Either whether it's from a negotiation perspective.
A lot of times, people don't get what they want simply because they are afraid to ask.
And then just in relationships, it's hard to ask.
I i, i find myself of not, i was going to say afraid, i'm not afraid.
I think it's a bit of ego not asking my wife for help on the dumbest things.
I would be wandering around the house aimlessly for about 17 minutes and whitney's like what are you looking for?
I'm like i can find it myself right.
Clearly you can't qualmy what.
What is it that holds us back?
Yeah,
No, this is a fabulous one.
By the way, have you heard of the Benjamin Franklin effect?
I was just going to ask.
We can go deep into the psychology of this.
I'm not a psychologist.
You're not a psychologist.
I don't believe.
I mean, so we'll leave it to the professionals.
But I think, on a practical, day-to-day level, what we arm people with, in addition to sort of the mindset and understanding what holds them back, is okay.
Now you're asking for help.
How do you set it up so that it's successful, right?
How do you make the ask?
Do you jump right into it?
How do you build towards it?
How many times do you ask?
But from a mindset standpoint, a psyche standpoint Kwame, I think the biggest thing that I coach people on is this idea of the zone of indifference, which essentially is you can control what you do and what you ask for.
You can't really control how someone responds, whether they say no to you, whether they ignore it.
So the best thing you can do is just put yourself into a zone of indifference and just don't even think about that.
Like.
You owe it to yourself, your family, the people that depend on you, to leverage your network in the right way, and just do it.
You know, that's kind of the best thing I can say in terms of asking for help.
I love that concept of the zone of indifference because, for me, I think about it through the fear of rejection.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And the fear of rejection, because it's like, all right, I am afraid of the rejection.
That's something that's hardwired into us.
And then what I've trained myself to become more afraid of the the regret of not asking.
Because I can see, oh, like, wait, if I ask, potentially, I could have this potential great outcome.
And if I don't ask, I guarantee failure.
Nothing, right?
I get nothing.
But if I ask and they say no, then I get nothing.
But I also get stronger because I realize I still survived after a rejection.
So why wouldn't I ask?
The regret minimization framework as a decision-making framework is so powerful.
I know you know that, right?
The classic example is Jeff Bezos.
Do you know this one?
Yeah, so Jeff Bezos leaving, I think it was Solomon Smith Barney.
He had a half a million dollar a year paying Wall Street job and he saw the internet rising and he's like I want to sell books on the web.
And he asked the, you know, it's the rocking chair test.
He's like you know, when I'm sitting on the rocking chair am I going to regret not having worked on wall street?
Or am I going to regret not having taken a swing at this like massive paradigm shift in society?
So absolutely.
I mean, You know, regret minimization, mentally ask yourself, project like Hey, if I don't ask this person who might unlock something extraordinary for me, for help, imagine how much I'd regret if they're actually able to come through, support me as someone who cares about me and actually make a difference in my life.
So that's a great motivator for just, just do it.
Absolutely.
And let's go back to the Benjamin Franklin effect too, because I think that's powerful, because it's so funny, because I love psychology not a psychologist, but I did study it in undergrad.
And I remember thinking about it because there was a situation, Benjamin Franklin, there was a guy who was talking to or was associated with in some way, but he always thought that the guy didn't like it.
Yeah, it was a political rival.
Oh, it was a rival.
That's even better.
That's even better for the story.
Because then what was it?
Benjamin Franklin asked for the favor.
He asked for the book.
Yeah.
And then the relationship got so much better.
And the idea is that a lot of times action comes before understanding.
And after we take an action, then we have to justify why we took that action.
If you help somebody, then the reason why you help them in most cases is because you like them in some kind of capacity.
And what I realized is that, especially if you're talking to somebody whose love language, the way that they like to show love is through acts of service, by not asking, I'm actually taking away an opportunity for them to show how much they love me in this scenario.
And so I'm like, what am I doing?
Everybody's losing because I'm afraid.
This is silly.
Right.
Isn't that amazing?
Asking for help is an act of generosity.
Unbelievable.
Oh my goodness.
It allows someone to feel purposeful, fulfilled.
It allows someone to express their own generosity, which we know feels great.
So yeah, why don't we ask for help more?
Fear of rejection.
But also you mentioned something really important, liking, likability.
There's something called the likability gap.
And You know, if you're a psychology wonk like you and I are, you might have you run into some of these studies.
But I love these studies.
You know strangers on a train.
They ask someone on a morning commute to speak to a stranger and they ask him beforehand how much do you think you're going to like it and how much are they going to appreciate speaking to you?
I'm not going to like it at all.
They're not going to talk to me.
And then afterwards there's this massive asymmetry where we underestimate how much people like us, how much they want to talk to us, how much they want to help us.
Insane.
That's wild.
And I love these types of conversations because it shows how much of our psychology is completely illogical and not based in reality.
It's so funny because we have to remember that our psychology is optimized for survival and avoidance of discomfort, not optimized for optimization of relationships and life and those type of things.
And when we remember that, we can start to become a little bit more intentionally skeptical of some of the things that we feel, because we're saying okay, do I feel this, as in this is the right thing to do.
Or does it just feel right because I'm a human and sometimes my psychology leads me astray?
Yeah, yeah, 100%.
I mean, we are pro social creatures.
And that's where our brains, I think, got confused to your point, like in our, in our evolutionary history.
We were self interested for millions of years, like I got, to protect myself.
And all of a sudden, we learned to communicate, and we become pro social.
And now we got to balance, like my interest with our interest and it all gets.
It all gets mixed up, mixed up.
So very often my coaching to people when, when i'm pushing them hey, reach out to go back and look in your client list and see who you did business with where they were super happy, and like, go and like reach back out to that person who you haven't spoken to in two years and they feel, you know, resistant.
I'm like, just remember the research on the likability gap.
They're going to appreciate the reach out much more than you imagine they will.
And even just reminding yourself that helps kind of push people forward.
Yes.
I got a funny story about this running.
Because when I was in law school, I worked at this law firm, a great law firm during the summer.
And I had a great summer, made some great relationships.
I didn't get an offer to come back the next year.
And then the now fast forward to today.
One of the lawyers reached out and sent a message and she said hey, I saw you were on the Mel Robbins podcast and it's been a while and I've been meaning to reach out to you for you for years.
But I was thinking maybe Kwame wouldn't be that interested.
Maybe he didn't have a good experience and things like that.
And what was funny is I for me?
When I was thinking about the lawyers of that law firm, I'm like maybe they don't like me.
Maybe they wouldn't want to connect.
And both of us were so excited to reconnect.
And we had the same insecurity that was holding us back from doing it.
It's incredible.
I was in London just now hosting a dinner for our community and someone used this term head garbage.
I love that term.
It's just head garbage.
It really is.
It really is.
And I think this gives us a good opportunity to talk about your concept of co-elevation.
Can you go deeper into that and help us to understand what that is?
Yeah.
I mean, look, co-elevation, really, I can't take credit for it.
My friend mentor, business partner, my co-founder in this business Connected Success, Keith Ferrazzi, who's probably studied relationships and networks more than any other human on the planet.
That is a concept that he has developed over the last couple of decades and research.
And the idea is we just, we elevate one another, right?
We go higher together and you can apply that in the working world in the context of your team at work, but you can also apply it in the context of your network.
If you think about the network as this group of people around you, let's say your sphere, let's say it's 30 40, 50 people.
We can get into the exact numbers.
That's its own interesting discussion.
If you think about them as just people, who you're trying to go from a low level of intimacy to a higher level of intimacy, ultimately to what Keith will actually call an RQ5, a relationship quality score five, which is there's so much history between you, so much shared history.
You've been generous, they've been generous back to you.
You are now ambassadors for one another.
You are co-elevating with one another.
If you're systematic about developing those relationships with the right people again, it doesn't have to be a huge number.
Call it 30 people and you have 30 people who are ambassadors for you walking around this globe.
That is a powerful network.
So that's the sort of strategy is how do I co-elevate?
How do I get to the point where I have that co-elevation type relationship with the people I choose to invest my energy into?
And this gives us an opportunity to go back to the concept that you learned in England of head garbage too.
Because in my mind, I said, that sounds magical.
And it also sounds like it's a lot of work.
And the people that you work with.
They're high achievers, high performers and very successful in their career, but they still find ways to invest in these relationships.
So for the person who was listening, I know, I know, I heard that voice in their heads.
I heard it when they said, I don't have time for this.
What do you say to that?
The two biggest things we hear, I don't have time and I don't know enough people.
Look, Kwame, we, you know, in this discussion, we got to stay at a high level, right?
The system that we designed, we literally launched it to solve that exact problem, right?
Which is you know when we say lead with generosity in any new relationship.
Spend the first six to nine months.
Don't even think about what you can get.
Just...
Think about what makes this person tick.
What are their struggles?
What are their dreams?
What are their goals?
And lead with generosity.
People go, okay, yeah, great.
That sounds wonderful, right?
All the research shows, Adam Grant, give and take.
All the research shows that that's a winning strategy.
Question is, generosity has to be a two-way street at some point.
We're not martyrs.
We only have a certain amount of time.
We can't be going around doing good things for people.
So how do we make it work, right?
That's the essence of the question, right?
And the answer is, I mean, I'll try to distill a bunch of stuff down.
But first of all, you have to have a system.
You have to be intentional.
That's the first thing.
You can't just go, oh, I'm going to invite this person to an event when I feel like it.
Or, oh, that might help that person.
If you try to do these things in the gaps in your schedule, they just won't happen.
So putting an hour, two hours into your calendar every week and knowing how to structure that time, being intentional about it.
That's one.
Two is think about the people who we're talking about.
Think about someone who you want to get deeper with and you want to be a line in their perception, not a dot.
You don't want to come in strong, hot and heavy and then fizzle.
You want to be touching them.
You want to be in their brain every two to four weeks.
More frequently if it's a new relationship.
Once you get to know each other, you can let a month, two months pass.
But if two months, too much time passes, you have this thing called relationship decay.
You're just not top of mind anymore.
So you need to build a system where you just peppering these people with small, what we call packets of generosity every so often.
That could be asking for help or advice as we determined earlier.
That could be just sending him a note saying hey, I was just thinking about you, like your former colleague at the law firm did.
That could be saying, hey, Kwame, you mentioned that you're into psychology.
I saw this thing.
I thought it might interest you, right?
It's the regularity that's important so that you're an upward sloping line in their perception.
Now, The final thing I'll say to this is well, there's a good question.
Your listeners are probably asking themselves, which is well, how many people can I do this with?
And the answer is less than you think.
So focus is important.
It's not a numbers game.
Go deep with the right 20 to 30 people.
Don't try to spread yourself too thin with hundreds of people.
There's a lot there to unpack.
It was a lot.
But in unpacking it, I felt so much better because I'm following my amygdala here.
Because once you said, hey, this is how you have to do it, there was that spike.
Because in emotionality, I'm like, oh, this feels stressful.
I felt it.
And then when you broke it down, I noticed that stress kind of dissipate.
Yeah. as you kept talking every single point.
And it makes sense because maybe back when we were at an early stage in our lives where we maybe didn't have familial responsibilities, leadership responsibilities, community responsibilities, if we wanted to do something, we were just like great.
I'm going to start doing this thing now, whenever I have free time.
And now you are so right.
And it's one of those things Where it's like the sign of a brilliant insight is that it seems obvious in hindsight.
Because once you said you need to have a system and you need to be intentional, I was like duh.
Why didn't that hit me?
Because there's no other way for something to actually fit into my schedule unless there's a strategic plan and systematic approach to doing it.
And then also, it was very encouraging to know that we're not, and you're not, expecting us to do this with hundreds of people.
No.
Because I was thinking this is about to be a new job.
But no, we just go deep with the relationships.
We're going to be much better.
Here's a quick warning for everyone listening.
Scams and identity theft usually don't start with some genius hacker.
Most of the time, it's just because your personal data is so easy to find online.
I'm talking about people search sites, shady directories and places where anyone can pull up your address, phone number and even your relatives info.
And then they use that leverage to impersonate you or target your family.
And that's how these scams usually work.
That's why I've been using Incogni.
Instead of you spending hundreds of hours manually trying to opt out of these sites yourself, Incogni just automates the whole thing.
They act as your proxy, taking down your data and demanding its removal from databases you've probably never heard of.
And the thing is, this isn't just a one-time fix.
Data has a way of popping back up.
So Incogni continuously monitors these sites in the background to make sure your information stays deleted.
I personally recommend the Family Unlimited plan.
It's the best way for you to cover your entire household.
It includes custom removals.
So if you ever find a specific page exposing your family's info, you just send Incogni the link and their privacy experts handle the manual takedown for you.
You can get your data back risk-free with Incogni's 30-day money-back guarantee.
And if you use the code anything at incogni.com slash anything, you'll get 60% off an annual plan.
Again, that's incogni.com slash anything.
Code anything.
Yeah.
And, you know, there are people who always try to push that number on me.
They go, you know, 30 is not enough.
I want to go with more.
Look, if you're in a season in your life where you're investing more time into network development or relationships, fine.
Right.
I like to think that for most people, 5% of your week. carve out two to three hours.
I'll tell you how to use it.
But let's say you're raising money for a startup, or let's say you want to transition careers.
You might say you know what, over the next six months I'm going to allocate 20 of my work week to networking.
Okay, so you can push that number higher.
Or maybe you have a really awesome, what's known as relational memory.
That's a thing, right?
That's a type of memory where some people like Keith, for example, is a freaking machine at this.
It's keeping track of who you know, how you know them, who they know.
Like you know, if you can keep a lot of that in your head with a great relational memory, you can expand that sphere.
If you have an assistant that helps you execute stuff, by all means, you can expand it.
But for most of us mortal humans, 20 to 30, keep them on a dashboard.
Occasionally prune that dashboard.
Make sure that they should still be on there.
And just focus on those 20, 30 people.
And I promise you six months a year out.
You're starting to get a pretty powerful tribe around you.
Amazing.
I am taking so many notes for myself selfishly.
This has become a coaching session for me.
So thank you, Ronan.
This is great.
And now to be more generous.
As we spoke about, this is a good opportunity to bring in our listener question.
Sure.
Hi, Ronan.
I'm a mid-level leader in a tech company and I've always been told I'm efficient, dependable and great at getting things done.
But recently, during my review, my manager said I'm not really seen as a connector.
That surprised me.
I thought my work spoke for itself, but I'm realizing that I haven't invested much in cross-functional relationships or even in bonding with my own team beyond the day-to-day
I want to change that, but I'm worried it'll feel fake or forced.
I don't want to start networking just because it's a leadership checkbox.
How can I build authentic relationships at work without coming off as performative or like I suddenly read a leadership book and am trying too hard?
Thanks, Morgan.
Oh, you're killing me with this question.
This is one of those things where there's so much that I there's so many different paths I can take it.
I don't even know where to start.
It's a great question.
First of all, I mean, we haven't even talked about introverts versus extroverts.
That's the other thing, right?
So maybe this person is introverted.
They like to go inward.
They do great work, but they don't lean on people, right?
Introverts, it's even less natural for them to ask for help and to lean on a network.
But let's really unpack this.
Okay.
So, first of all, when you think about networking, 25 of your time should be focused within your organization, especially if you work for a large company, right?
Not out in the market like we all think.
Yeah. it's not just about doing good work.
Like you know and in the corporate environment, it's not about who you know.
It's about who knows you and what they think of you, what your brand is to those people.
And so...
What you're trying to do really is to build that brand of someone who leads with generosity, someone who's there to help, someone who will go out of their way.
And you can do that in small ways, right?
Your listener, the person who asked this wonderful question.
It's even little things, like celebrating people in Slack channels or showing up to someone's presentation because you want to be there to support them.
The important thing is focus less on the relationships within your functional area.
We all know that those need to be solid, because those are the people that you're working with day to day.
Where we miss out on is thinking about the organization in terms of broader networks, what Keith calls teaming out.
Look at the people who could help you, or you could help them, in terms of adjacent parts of the business.
Think about who could be a great mentor.
Think about who can be a great sponsor.
Right.
That's about that's identifying the people.
But the question then goes further and says OK well, how do I do it without feeling weird or feeling transactional?
Right.
There's something called the tall poppy syndrome.
Have you ever heard of the tall poppy effect?
You know about this.
The tallest poppy gets cut down.
So you lift your head up.
You're taking a risk.
I'll say a few things about this one.
Keep communications really efficient and not overly embellished, right.
Hey, Kwame, I'm super inspired by what you've done within the company.
I've seen your path.
I'd love to excel.
I love the company.
I wondered if you just sit down, have a coffee and share some insight with me.
Keep it really simple.
I admire what you've done.
I'd love to see how you've done it.
And if there's any way I can help you, I'd love to, right?
So keep communications simple.
Um And again, lead with generosity.
Find those people and just invest your energy into them, because it's critical.
You could do great work, but if you're not viewed as a connector or someone who helps or a quote unquote team player what sometimes you hear called a glue player your upside might be limited.
Yeah.
Yes.
And now I want to talk about the timing of this too, because the sequencing of this, I think, is important.
And you tell me if I'm off on this, because what you said just now was lead with generosity.
And what we talked about before was don't be afraid to ask.
And it sounds like what we need to do is when we are initially making the relationship and building the relationship we're leading with generosity, showing how we can help them and pour into the relationship.
Not overdoing it, but demonstrating that we are here to collaborate and I'm here to help you.
And then once you have established a relationship, then you can make that ask.
But at the beginning you make it really easy by keeping the conversation simple, starting the relationship and then making it clear that your goal is to help them as much as possible.
Yeah, 100%.
I mean, asking for advice is always an easy place to start.
Now, what's our goal, right?
Your viewers, I know you think and talk a lot about like, how do you elicit information?
How do you know what's important to the other party?
How do you know what drives them?
Your goal is to figure all that stuff out, but you need game time to do that.
You need to be with them at the offsite.
You need to have the coffee with them.
You need to hear them articulating what it is that they're working on.
As you do that, you gain information to then help you lead with generosity.
But at first you don't have much to work on.
So a very good place to start is just a really earnest, very authentic hey.
I'd love some advice if you're open to providing it.
And then have a great conversation.
Ask great questions.
Be focused.
Close the loop.
That's the thing a lot of people don't do.
Close the loop.
You know what?
If your goal is to be aligned in their perception and you need to ping them with something two weeks later, the perfect thing is hey Kwame, that advice you gave me I got to tell you.
Here's what I did with it.
I read that book.
It led to this and this.
And it totally unlocked some cool things for me.
Hey, thank you for that.
That's it.
That's that entire transaction.
It's just, thank you for that.
Nobody does that.
Nobody does that.
It's a huge missed opportunity.
Yes, because I think about times mentoring something that's important to me.
And I think about times where I've mentored somebody and then they're just off in the ether and I never hear from them again.
Did it work?
I mean, what happened?
That's so that's so powerful.
You know what else?
It doesn't even have to work out well, right?
You know, the power of reciprocity.
Let's say you know someone made the intro to their buddy the CEO at the startup that you want to work at.
And the CEO ghosted you.
They never responded back to you.
Hey Kwame, just want to let you know I never heard back from that CEO, but I'm so grateful for the effort you made.
That was awesome.
If there's anything I could do for you, let me know.
It's like, you still feel great about that, closing the loop.
Now there's a tiny little bit of reciprocity as well.
Well, I couldn't help you.
Maybe there's another way I can help you.
That's brilliant.
That's brilliant.
You know the thing is Ronan, when people listen to this episode, they are going to hate the fact that they are fresh out of excuses.
Now, you've made it so easy for them.
I appreciate the simplicity and thoughtfulness that you brought to this.
And before you go, I want to again give you an opportunity to let folks know about your company, your coaching and how they can get in touch.
Yeah, that's awesome.
I appreciate that.
So we have now run this program.
It's called Beyond Connections for a year.
It's based on a lot of the principles in Keith's bestselling book, Never Eat Alone.
But I also drew other things from his other books, as well as broader research in the market.
And the idea is, as we've talked about, networking can be very simple.
It can be habitual.
It can be something that feels good and you enjoy.
And when you have that type of system, all of a sudden it goes from being this thing that's always bugging you like oh man, I got to do this.
Why don't I want to do it?
To I got this locked down, right?
And the only way you can do that, look, books are great.
We could read a lot.
We could learn a lot.
But the big aha moment that Keith and I had was for people to really shift the way they connect with people and build out their network.
It's an action sport.
They've got to practice that in a community.
So we designed this eight-week experience that's all about content big workshops, small masterminds, one-on-one coaching dinners hosted around the world where, after eight weeks, you've built a pretty high level of intimacy with this cohort you're with
And it's pretty awesome to see people coming out of that with like three or four like game changing relationships.
I went and traveled the Camino Real trail in Europe with these two women I met In the program for two weeks.
We've had people start businesses together.
And then the coolest part is after the whole experience is over, we invite everyone to celebrate in person in Los Angeles.
And boy, when we first did this a year ago, I'll never forget.
There were 65 people in the first cohort.
And like any founder, you try stuff out.
You test things out.
It's like, you know what?
What if we bring people together in person?
And I saw people from all over the world participate.
I said, you know what?
I bet 15 out of 65 would show up because who's going to fly from Singapore to LA?
45 people flew in for the weekend and it was pure magic.
Amazing.
That's a testament to how solid that program is because that is an incredible level of commitment.
So kudos to you, my friend.
Thank you, Kwame.
Yeah, it's a program, but then there's the ongoing community that's very, very special.
And And I got to tell you.
I mean, I look at some of the people I consider closest to me today and I've met them through Beyond Connections and I feel very blessed for that.
I feel blessed for the kind of work that we're doing.
And I would encourage any of your viewers and listeners who want to take the next level and be absolutely excellent at relationship development, who want to be focused and systematic about their network, to think about this program.
Go to the website, apply and just book a call with one of our enrollment folks who are great, by the way.
And they'll just have a conversation with you, figure out like, what you're struggling with, what you're trying to accomplish, and see if it's if it's the right fit for you.
Amazing.
Ronan, thank you so much for joining us today.
Really appreciate it.
Yeah.
I enjoyed the conversation as well.
I feel like we can go on for hours about this stuff.
Congratulations.
You've just joined an elite club.
By listening to a full episode, you're now officially on the Negotiate Anything team.
So welcome aboard.
What most team members do is they subscribe to the podcast because that allows them to automatically get the latest episodes of the show.
The best things in life lie on the other side of difficult conversations.
Keep learning, keep practicing and keep getting better.
Your relationships will improve, your career will soar and you'll have the confidence you need to get the most out of these crucial conversations.
Again, thank you for joining the team.
We're excited to have you and I will see you in the next episode.
I'll catch you later.
