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Lowdow. You're listening to the Global News Podcast from the BBC World Service.
Hello, I'm Oliver Conway.
This edition is published in the early hours of Wednesday, the 19th of February.
We'll have more reaction to the dramatic reset in relations between the US and Russia as they agree to press ahead with negotiations on the war in Ukraine, despite excluding Kiev from their talks.
Israelis learn the fate of the youngest hostages in Gaza.
And a British couple arrested in Iran last month have been charged with spying.
Also in the podcast...
A bomb fell on the child, killing his parents.
It was the M23 who dropped the bomb and I lost six members of my family.
We have a special report from eastern Congo.
And forget dentures, could we soon grow replacement teeth?
But first, according to leaked intelligence from February 2022, Vladimir Putin believed his invasion forces could overthrow the Ukrainian government within three days.
In the end, his troops were stopped at the gates of Kiev.
But three years on, with hundreds of thousands dead on both sides, The Russian leader now appears to have the upper hand after seemingly winning over Donald Trump.
The first tangible sign of the new reality came in Saudi Arabia on Tuesday as the top Russian and American diplomats met in Riyadh.
Our correspondent Tom Bateman was there.
Here was the US, the biggest single backer and arms supplier of Ukraine, sitting down with its friend's enemy.
Afterwards, the US delegation led by Mr Rubio described the discussions as upbeat.
The Americans said they agreed four principles with the Russians, maintaining talks between the delegations, restoring broader diplomatic ties, enabling teams to work on a path to end the war in Ukraine, and then what the US called historic economic and investment opportunities with Russia.
But what of any concessions being demanded of Moscow?
Mr Rubio wouldn't set any out to reporters after the meeting, saying only that it would be a matter for future talks.
Mr Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, made clear European peacekeeping forces were out of the question.
We explained today that the appearance of armed forces from the same NATO countries, but under a different flag, under the flag of the European Union or under national flags, doesn't change anything in this regard.
Of course, this is unacceptable to us.
Pressed on why the US wasn't laying down conditions for Moscow in order to agree a durable peace, Mr.
Rubio said the two sides would only agree to ending the war on terms they were each happy with.
But today's events have so far done little to allay the biggest fears in Ukraine of being forced to accept an end to the war on Russia's terms with the peace being carved up between Moscow and Washington.
Tom Bateman in Riyadh.
Well, those Ukrainian fears of a sellout were articulated by the nation's leader, Vladimir Zelensky, who was on a visit to Turkey, which acted as a mediator early in the war.
He again insisted his country had to be involved in any peace talks.
We'll hear more on the official Ukrainian view in a moment, but first to people on the streets of Kiev.
Honestly, I don't know what to think because Trump is very unpredictable.
Essentially, as long as there are no clear actions or specific demands for deadlines, I can't really form an opinion on this.
I think that, most likely, certain territories will have to be considered, at least for some time, to achieve peace.
I think the priority in our country right now is to save as many lives as possible.
But I know that even if there is a ceasefire now, Russia will try to attack our country again.
And we don't know what the consequences of that will be in the future.
The view from the Ukrainian capital.
So what, if anything, can President Zelenskyy do to influence any settlement of the war?
Here's our Ukraine correspondent James Waterhouse.
As two major powers discuss the future of his country elsewhere.
In Turkey, a visibly irritated President Zelensky highlighted what he saw as the flaws with his country's exclusion from this first stage of talks.
In order for the war to end with a reliable and lasting peace, we must not make any mistakes.
This is possible only when the negotiations are fair and Ukraine, America and the whole of Europe are represented at the negotiating table.
Guarantees are developed with the participation of all who are really capable of giving them.
Ukraine's leader said he would never legally recognize the territory Russia had seized and called for, in the likely absence of NATO membership, a strong Ukrainian military, possibly backed by foreign troops in a post -cease -fire existence.
For Dimko, a soldier we caught up with in Kyiv, America's approach has been damaging to morale.
Absolutely worried.
We We want to believe that President Donald Trump is also a wise man who takes his politics seriously and his deals seriously.
Whatever would be decided in President Trump's head and whether it's going to be with Ukraine or not, it's going to make an enormous impact on Ukraine.
Mr Zelensky was scheduled to travel to Saudi Arabia after visiting his Turkish counterpart President Erdogan.
but he said he had now postponed the trip, so not to add legitimacy to the early negotiations to which he was not invited.
James Waterhouse in the Ukrainian capital.
Just before we came into the studio, President Trump said he would probably meet Vladimir Putin before the end of the month.
In a wide -ranging news conference at Mar -a -Lago, he also said he was disappointed by complaints, presumably from Ukraine and Europe, of being frozen out of the talks.
I think I have the power to end this war.
And I think it's going very well.
But today I heard, oh, we weren't invited.
Well, you've been there for three years.
You should have ended it three years.
You should have never started it.
You could have made a deal.
I could have made a deal for Ukraine that would have given them almost all of the land, everything, almost all of the land, and no people would have been killed and no city would have been demolished and not one dome would have been knocked down.
So what should we make of the US -Russia meeting in Saudi Arabia?
The BBC's Luke Jones spoke to Olga Ivshina from the BBC Russian service and Irina Tanayuk of BBC Ukrainian.
For Ukraine, it's a huge blow, huge diplomatic blow, because Ukraine feels left out.
And seeing not just normalization between the USA and Russia, but what is perceived as normalization on steroids can't but hurt Ukrainian feelings.
Did we get any greater clarity today about at what point Ukraine might be involved in these future talks and how that might work?
The best pointer was from Marco Rubio's US state secretary's presser when he said that this is not even pre negotiations to discuss any potential peace deal.
It's just the starting point to launch some sort of a dialogue between the sides and both Europe, the EU as potential guarantor of any peace deal, and Ukraine as a party to this war, which, interestingly, Marco Rubio kept calling conflict only.
So there was a slight shift in vocabulary, if you want to look.
So I think that would not be interpreted or looked at kindly by Ukrainian side either, because they see some signs of American position shifting towards softening of sanctions.
And for that, the USA needs Europe because, interestingly, also in Lavrov's lingo, Europe is the enemy.
Europe is an anti -Russian force, even though it's European war.
And it will be up to Europe to sort it out eventually, wouldn't it?
Olga, one of the other things, at least posed in some questioning today, was about the possibility of Putin and Zelensky talking.
I think I'm right in saying that Putin's spokesperson made reference to this in their response to the talks.
How likely do you think that is anytime soon?
Well, I guess that is possible, of course.
I think Putin is very pleased that current negotiations are going directly between US and Russia.
and Ukraine is not at the table, Putin is definitely very happy with that.
And it seems, at least they're trying to show that they feel very empowered, very confident.
But the truth is that there are still issues they don't like to talk about.
For example, Ukraine still controls a part of the Russian territory, which they gained after the incursion into Kursk region of Russia.
So we don't really know, you know, how far those negotiations went, what Russia has to give in, what they have to trade in in order to achieve that.
So to be fair, in order to conduct any piece, they need to meet directly, right?
So I guess that's possible.
But once again, the crucial thing is what the details of this meeting and this agreement will be.
What about the economic side of things?
Because there was a lot of discussion on that front, wasn't there?
I mean, the head of the Russian Direct Investment Fund was there, not involved in the talks, but was definitely floating around it quite closely.
Yes, definitely Russia is interested in lifting some of the sanctions in start of business as usual.
definitely they're interested in that what that means for the democratic world is a very different question which i guess the west needs to find an answer for and i mean just finally with you what is next for zelensky on this front does he need to corral his european strategic partners a bit more where does
he go next he he's back in kiev where tomorrow he'll have the first face -to -face meeting with Keith Kellogg, the new US representative on Ukraine.
And hopefully for him, for Ukraine, he'll bring the message across.
And also he's trying to corral Europe at large.
In Turkey, he sort of raised the possibility of Ankara, official Ankara and Turkey and Erdogan being involved because Erdogan really liked hearing that, playing the regional leader that he is and also United Kingdom he said Europe at large Europe as such is not just European Union it's also the United
Kingdom it's also Turkey so he is broadening this support base for Ukraine and hoping that when US is withdrawing from the process of supporting Ukraine in the future you'll have someone to fall back on.
Irina Tarnayuk of the BBC Ukrainian Service and we also heard from Olga Ivshina of BBC Russia.
And still to come on the Global News podcast.
If you're feeling upset or want to express yourself, it's quite complicated and expensive to stage an opera or throw a pot, but you do have access to poetry.
The UK announces what's described as a long overdue national poetry center.
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It's time! On Friday last week, the Rwandan -backed M23 rebels began marching into Bukavu in the Democratic Republic of Congo.
They were largely unopposed, but as they advanced, They executed children, according to the UN Human Rights Office.
A spokesperson warned of a worsening security situation in eastern Congo with reports of sexual violence and forced recruitment.
Bukavu was the second major city to fall to the rebels after Goma, and they say they'll take their fight all the way to the Congolese capital, Kinshasa, more than 1 ,000 kilometres away.
Alla Garin sent this report from eastern Congo.
I'm standing in a recovery room in Ndosho Hospital in Goma.
There are three patients here on trolleys, all young men.
And here in this hospital alone there are four operating rooms in use all day, sometimes at night, to try to keep up with the volume of war -wounded civilians and soldiers who have been brought in.
So my name is Miriam Fevier, I'm based in Gouma for the International Red Cross.
We are here now at the Indosho Hospital, which is one of the hospitals you support.
You have more than 300 patients.
You have beds for 146.
How much pressure have the doctors and the nurses been under?
I think it's been a terrible situation for the doctors.
They slept in the OTs.
Our medical supplies were looted at the very beginning of the escalation of the conflict in Goma.
Tell me about the kind of injuries you've been receiving.
is it mostly gunshots?
It was a lot of gunshots.
It was also an increasing number of explosive devices and you have also pediatric war surgery because a lot of children were also wounded.
We meet some of them in a tent in the hospital grounds.
David, who's 15, cries in pain.
He was hit in the face by a stray bullet.
In the next bed, 13 -year -old Heshima winces as he tries to shift his weight.
One of his legs is now a bandaged stump.
His relative, Tantin, tells us what happened.
A bomb fell on the child, killing his parents.
Was there fighting in the area?
Were there clashes between different groups?
It was a Sunday. It was the M23 who dropped the bomb.
There was fighting between them and the army.
They dropped the bomb and I lost six members of my family.
While Tantin mourns, some welcome the M23 to Bukavu.
It's the second major city they have captured recently.
They prefer liberated.
M23 say they are defending ethnic minority Tutsis.
Human rights groups accuse the rebels and their enemies, the Congolese army, of killing and raping civilians.
I'm at the edge of Goma.
There are green hills all around in the distance and stretching out as far as the eye can see there are rows and rows of white tents, some very scrappy, falling apart.
I'm in a camp called Bulengo, one of several camps here for people who have been displaced by fighting.
Crowds gather round us to say they are being displaced again by an ultimatum from M23.
among them a young mother called Divine who has a babe in arms We were here when they came and told us You have three days to leave We were scared because we have nowhere to go The houses have been destroyed, there are none left Hunger is killing us in the camp but we don't see how we can go home to
nothing M23 say they are encouraging voluntary returns but that's not how it feels to many here we saw an extended family setting off with what little they had tied to their backs cooking pots, rolled up bedding and a wooden stool the family are on their way now they've told us it will be a two day
journey by foot. Around the camp, we've seen others who are packing up, getting ready to go.
Many say they're frightened to leave, but they're also scared to stay.
Mola Gerin, reporting from Eastern Congo.
The fate of the Bibas family has tormented the Israeli public since the Hamas attack of October the 7th, 2023.
A picture of the two young redheaded boys, Ariel and Kefir, being abducted, along with their distraught mother Shiri became a symbol of the brutality of that day.
The father Yadon Bibas was released earlier this month but Hamas said his wife and two children were killed by Israeli bombing in late 2023.
Their deaths were never confirmed and many in Israel refused to believe it.
Now Hamas has said their bodies will be handed over on Thursday ahead of the release of six living hostages on Saturday.
Mark Lowen in Jerusalem told me about the likely reaction in Israel?
I think it's going to be a very painful moment, Ollie, even though, really, I think a lot of people have expected it to happen because Hamas has long alleged that the Bibas family, or at least Shiri Bibas and her two sons, who were the two youngest hostages taken on the 7th of October, were killed in an Israeli
bombardment. Israel has never confirmed that.
But when the hostages started being released, the living hostages on the 19th of January, If those two boys had been alive, everybody expected them to be in the early release groups and they haven't appeared.
So I think that this is kind of the inevitable and yet it will be extremely painful because, as you say, they have become very much the kind of icons of the cruelty of the 7th of October.
Across Israel, you see their portraits kind of symbolizing, you know, this youthful innocence which was taken on the 7th of October.
I mean the Be Best family have released a statement saying we are in turmoil, we've not received any official confirmation and until we do our journey is not over.
That is a reference to the fact that Israel says it will not confirm the identity of the four dead hostages until forensic tests have been carried out here.
Now this is part of a series of handovers, living hostages on Saturday, more dead bodies next week.
Is the deal accelerating?
It seems to be faster than had been planned.
It seems to be, yes, because initially there were three living hostages planned for release on Saturday and that's been doubled.
And we are told that that is intended by Hamas as a gesture of good faith in the negotiations which are restarting in Cairo to move to the second phase of the ceasefire.
Remember, just last week, it appeared that the whole ceasefire was hanging by a thread when Hamas threatened to suspend all the remaining releases of the hostages.
But it's been brought back on track by the regional mediators.
And with the release of these four bodies on Thursday, then the six living hostages on Saturday, and then four more bodies next week, that completes the 33 hostages who are due to be released in the first phase.
So then the second phase could, in theory, begin.
But then the second phase of the ceasefire is going to contain the really, really tricky topic of an Israeli withdrawal from the Gaza Strip.
And within Benjamin Netanyahu's cabinet on the far right, particularly, there's a lot of opposition to that from ministers and indeed ex -ministers who want Israel to resume the war in Gaza once the hostages are released.
So there is no guarantee, and it's absolutely not given, that they will be able to move to phase two.
But the momentum is swinging back towards negotiations of some sort at least.
Mark Lowen in Jerusalem.
A British couple arrested in Iran last month during a round -the -world motorcycle trip have been charged with spying offences.
Craig and Lindsay Foreman, who are both 52, are accused of collecting information in different locations across Iran.
The BBC's Azadeh Moshiri is in neighbouring Pakistan.
She spoke to Tim Franks.
A lot of the information that we've been getting has been coming from Iranian state media.
This latest information is from a judiciary -run news agency and even quoted a judiciary spokesman, Asghar Jahangir, saying the couple had been under surveillance by intelligence agencies in the province and were, in their words, arrested as part of a coordinated intelligence operation.
They're arguing that the couple came under the guise the pretense of a tourist trip, but actually, we're collecting information for Western intelligence officials.
Now, this is completely different to what we've heard from Lindsay and Craig Foreman's family, and also from Lindsay Foreman's own social media accounts.
Because what's really notable about this case is that since they were embarking on this trip across the world on their motorbikes, they'd already posted so many videos and pictures of their time in various countries, including Armenia, the country they were in before they got into Iran.
And throughout, you see a very positive outlook, especially in Iran.
Lindsay Foreman talks about how she's there having an amazing time enjoying the food, talking about shared humanity.
And a lot of this is because she's a life coach.
She has a doctorate in psychology.
And the purpose of this trip was to end up in Australia as their final stop, where Lindsay would present her research on what it means to live a good life.
And in fact, they'd only planned on staying in Iran for five days, and instead have been detained since early January.
And just to be clear, I mean, although you said it was a brief visit, and all the PR around this was, look, we're showing the benefits of a shared humanity.
I mean, there is a pretty clear British government travel advisory about Iran, isn't there?
There is. The Foreign Office currently advises British nationals to avoid all travel to Iran.
It adds that British and British Iranian dual nationals are at significant risk of arrest, questioning or detention.
It even says that having a British passport or connections to the UK can be reason enough for the Iranian authorities to detain you.
But they actually knew about these risks.
It's very clear because Lindsay Foreman posted about it on social media prior to making the trip.
They said they're facing their fears and defying recommendations from friends, family and the FCDO travel advice.
She acknowledged that travelling to Iran and to Pakistan, which was her next stop, was risky and, in her words, slightly scary, but that they hoped the reward would be worth it and that they'd hired a tour guide and were taking every precaution.
They said that they believed they'd be able to really show that the world had some form of shared humanity and that they were doing this with the best of intentions.
The BBC's Azadeh Moshiri in Islamabad.
Technological advances have seen things that were once inconceivable being grown in labs from red blood cells to human skin, chocolate to diamonds.
Now teeth could join that list.
Researchers at Tufts University in the US city of Boston say false teeth or dentures could become a thing of the past as they're on the verge of a breakthrough in creating new teeth from a mix of human and pig cells.
The BBC's Evan Davis got the details from Dr Pamela Yellick professor of orthodontics.
We have been working to try to create bioengineered teeth that more closely resemble natural teeth as compared to currently used implants which are made of synthetic materials So based on techniques that have been used for many decades now in tissue engineering and regenerative medicine, we mix cells
with scaffolds, which are materials that the cells can sit onto and grow and reorganize themselves into various organs.
So this has been successfully used to create organs, organ tissues, including liver and heart muscle and skeletal muscle, bone.
And we're using these same techniques to regenerate teeth.
It's not necessarily all human cells.
The pig is the other part of this.
That's correct. There are two types of cells which contribute to teeth.
and they are dental epithelial cells and dental mesenchymal cells.
So we get the human dental mesenchymal cells from extracted teeth, human teeth, wisdom teeth, for example, that need to be extracted.
But the dental epithelial component is harder to obtain.
And so for these studies to show proof of principle, we use pig dental epithelial cells.
So we're hoping that the Bioengineered teeth would actually fare better than a titanium implant.
The tooth bud, this bioengineered tooth bud, would get implanted into the jaw.
And then the idea is that ultimately it would grow and erupt into a functional tooth.
Pamela Yellick, Professor of Orthodontics.
The Canadian novelist and playwright Antonin Maillet has died in Montreal at the age of 95.
Lise Doucette looks back at her life.
Antonin Maillet is the most renowned novelist and playwright from Eastern Canada and its French -speaking community known as the Acadians.
Her work celebrates Acadian language, heritage and pride.
She once said, if I have one claim to fame, it's that I took the Acadian language from its oral tradition to the written word.
In 1979, she became the first Canadian to receive the prestigious French literary award the Prix Goncourt for her novel Pellagy la Charette, the story of a feisty widow's epic journey home to eastern Canada after the British expulsion of the Acadians in 1755.
The French president Emmanuel Macron paid tribute to Ms Maillet's immense work and rebellious strength which uplifted the soul and said she was mourned by French -speaking communities the world over.
Canada's Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said Miss Maillet had left an indelible mark on Canada's cultural landscape.
In the country that brought you Chaucer, Shakespeare, Keats and Wordsworth, it might surprise you there is no national centre to celebrate poetry.
But that is about to change.
The man behind the project, the UK's Poet Laureate Simon Armitage, says poetry is the most accessible and democratic of art forms.
He told the BBC's Tim Franks why.
If you're feeling upset about something or want to express yourself, it's quite complicated and expensive to stage an opera or throw a pot.
But you do have access to poetry because for most people, language is a free gift.
It's something that they've learned before they even know it.
And if you have that and something to write with and on, you're away.
And of course, these days, there are more and more opportunities for us to share that, for example, through social media.
In what way do you then think that a national poetry centre, how can that be a sort of crucible for poetry?
One of the things that's happened over the last few years is that we've become more and more isolated and solipsistic and there's an invitation in a centre like this to gather.
For younger generations it's absolutely imperative that we invest in places where people can communicate face -to -face and learn how to disagree and be accepting of each other's opinions.
Why Leeds? This is my part of the world.
I'm a professor of poetry at Leeds University and there's been a great appetite and energy for this idea shown from Leeds right from the beginning.
There's also something of a drive in Leeds towards making it a city of language and literacy.
Beyond that, it's roughly in the middle of the country.
It's very well connected.
we've already got a huge number of national institutions in our capital.
But I think, of late, there's been a sort of philosophical move towards decentralisation, which reflects really what's happened in poetry as well.
And I think it's just more reflective of a plurality within the art form.
And celebrating that plurality and celebrating the colours of the national language, is there going to be space for languages?
Because obviously Britain has a multiplicity.
yeah exactly and the area of leads that we're talking about is typically diverse so yes when we talk about britain and we talk about languages we're talking about that great richness which poetry has really benefited from in our country and which a lot of particularly younger people are finding a means
of expression to talk about their own lives and what the world means to them through their own language there's no better way really of being in touch with your identity than through your grammar and through your your syntax at some level I can see that a national poetry center might seem to some people
an esoteric idea but really what we're doing here is we're trying to encourage people to have a better relationship with language and to play with language because in doing that you get closer to yourself and you get closer to understanding the world the UK poet Laureate Simon Armitage.
And that is all from us for now, but the Global News Podcast will be back very soon.
This edition was mixed by Derek Clark and produced by Marion Straugh and our editors Karen Martin.
I'm Oliver Conway. Until next time, goodbye.
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