Hey, it's your friend Mel and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast.
So the other day I was scrolling through social media and I'm not even kidding you.
Within three minutes, I saw 17 different skincare products being marketed to me red light therapy masks, anti-aging serum, some under ice roller thingy mid-job masks that promised to reverse aging, clear your skin, make you glow.
I mean.
One video I don't even want to admit this to you even made me feel like maybe it's time for a facelift.
I feel so overwhelmed about what to do, the way my skin is sagging, what products to buy, what not.
And I know you do too, because I have been receiving thousands and thousands of questions from you, from around the world, on the topic of skin and skincare.
Questions like, what do you do about adult acne?
How do you get rid of sagging jowls?
What skincare do you need to throw out?
How do you wash your face correctly?
What ingredients in skincare actually work?
How do you take care of aging skin?
Today, Dr Shireen Idris, one of the most trusted board-certified dermatologists in the world, is here with the science, the answers, the three specific steps and the no BS.
Truth on what works and what doesn't.
What helps your skin and what hurts it?
What's worth your money and what isn't?
So, whether you're dealing with acne, aging skin, or you're just overwhelmed and you don't know what to do with the products that are clogging your bathroom drawers, or if you're in a moment in your life where your skin is just out of control,
And when you look in the mirror, you don't look like yourself.
You don't feel like yourself and you're scared there's nothing you can do?
Dr. Shireen Idris is going to assure you that there is always something you can do.
She says your skin is not a problem to solve.
It's a relationship to build because ultimately, if you follow everything that she's going to teach to you today, you will begin to feel comfortable and confident in your own skin.
Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.
I am so excited that you're here.
It is always an honor to spend time together and to be with you.
And if you're a new listener or you're here because somebody shared this episode with you, I just want to take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family.
I cannot wait for you to meet today's guest, Dr. Shireen Idris.
She's here to tell you exactly what to do, what to eat and what to avoid if you want healthier skin.
Dr Idris is a world-renowned board-certified dermatologist with 17 years of clinical experience treating patients, studying skin and cutting through the noise with evidence-based advice.
She earned her degree in biology and her medical degree from George Washington University, completed a research fellowship at Harvard University and did her dermatology training at Tufts Medical Center.
She's been a clinical assistant professor at NYU and is currently a clinical instructor at Mount Sinai in New York City.
In addition to having her own clinical practice and her own skincare line, she also has millions of followers online who trust her for breaking down skincare myths, calling out the misinformation, saving you money by telling you not to buy junky products, and making the complicated stuff simple and doable.
So, without further ado, please help me welcome the incredible Dr Shireen Idris to the Mel Robbins Podcast.
Dr. Shireen Idris, welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.
I cannot believe I'm here, but thank you so much for having me.
Well, I'm really glad you're here.
And there's two things I want to say before we jump in.
Number one.
As you're listening or watching on YouTube, I just want to tell you you have picked a winner.
And I can already tell because you have about 40 pages of notes in front of you.
I know that we are in for something that is going to be world-class.
So thank you for really showing up, in a way, for me and for the person who's spending time with us today to make an impact.
Second thing is when I posted on social all about the fact that you were coming just ask people for their questions
I don't know that we've ever gotten more questions on a topic.
And so we are going to go deep.
I'm so excited.
Where I want to start is, Dr Idris, is what is going to change about my life if I take everything to heart that you are about to teach us And I apply it?
The biggest thing that's going to change when you take to heart everything we're going to talk about here today is not just the knowledge in your skin or gaining a little bit more confidence in taking care of your skin, but the emotional impact it's going to have on your overall confidence.
Moving forward.
Because aging, 20% of it is genetics.
If it was all purely genetics, habits wouldn't matter.
And so 80% of how we age and show up in the world has to do with habits.
And so if we can create the system so we can show up for ourselves every single day but also have the confidence and our knowledge to, we can transform from an inside out perspective and really blossom into the butterflies that we are.
You said that only 20% is determined by genetics.
I've never heard anybody say that.
Yeah.
So 80% has to do with cumulative sun exposure.
Are we living a rockstar lifestyle?
Are we consuming alcohol to no end?
Are we not focusing on the overall aspects of our lifestyle and diet?
Are we actually washing our faces?
Are we using the things?
And that I think is a reflection of everything else.
When all of it comes together.
Your skincare is that reflection of how you view yourself and how you take care of yourself overall.
So, to be able to put a little bit of emphasis, a little change every single day will amount to bigger changes in the long run.
And I think the most dramatic one is truly how you feel about yourself.
And that's why I went into dermatology.
I never liked convincing people that they had a problem.
And so because they could see their problem, they're already more motivated to help themselves.
But to be able to see somebody's confidence be restored after we've helped them go through whatever it is they're going through, there's no feeling that compares.
Well, it's true.
Most of us don't go to the dermatologist unless we hate something about the way we look or if there's something on our skin that's scaring us.
And this is going to sound really dumb to admit, but when I listen to what you're already saying, I realize that I've been so focused on the outside and what I'm putting on my skin that I haven't really considered all of the things that you're also going to talk about that are part of your lifestyle, that go from the inside out.
A thousand percent.
Wow.
Why is skin health so important for overall health?
And what does the state of your skin reveal about what's going on inside your body?
Your skin is your largest organ.
And it is one of the few places right where internal health shows up visibly on the outer surface of your skin.
So that is one thing that isn't often taken into consideration.
But your skin is a visible feedback system that is showing you what is going on on the inside, but also not just internally from a physiologic standpoint, but also on the inside up here, mentally, emotionally, from a stress perspective.
Wow.
And that is the first visual trigger that you have when you look at yourself.
So I think one thing that is often so overlooked when it comes to skin health is that mental and emotional impact that comes with it.
And that is something that shouldn't be overlooked.
And skin is not just vanity.
It's not just cosmetic.
It's not just superficial.
It's really a whole person issue.
And I think once you start to shift that perspective, you realize, holy cow, this is my biggest organ.
And yet I put it through the ringer and I don't even care for it.
So it's really something that I find fascinating because it's so visible.
And yet it's an afterthought for so many.
Let's say, the person listening or watching here on YouTube is in a phase of their life where they're going through all kinds of hormonal changes and you hear that your skin is a reflection of what's going on in the inside.
How do you want the person listening who feels now all of a sudden like, oh my God, the fact that my skin is in welts and it's... acne all over the place and I hate how I look or my skin is sagging or I've, I sat out for decades in the sun and now I'm screwed.
How do you want the person listening, who's now starting to collapse a little, to listen to what you have to say about what's possible if you feel like your skin is reflecting not good health on the inside?
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
So I would want you to know if you feel like your skin is taking control of your life and it is out of control, you are still in control.
And it's a matter of first taking a step back and calming your skin down.
And really trying to first focus on calming everything down before focusing on treating the issue.
And once we have that step in place and we will talk about it more today you will gain control over your skin and you will see that the possibilities are really endless.
And it's never too late to start, whether you are 20.
30, 40, I mean, I have patients, my oldest patient is 88 and she still cares.
And that's what I love about her.
That shows her will to keep going.
And people, I think our society, they describe very negatively cosmetic work or vanity.
And it's usually talked about under a negative light.
But the truth is being vain to a healthy and certain extent is just a reflection that you still care.
If we didn't care, I'd almost be more worried.
Are we really at the bottom of our struggles here?
And so you have to understand that it's not just vanity.
It's a reflection of you caring that you still want to show up.
It doesn't matter when you're starting.
You can always start to take control and help yourself.
As a world-renowned dermatologist, what is healthy vanity?
And what is unhealthy vanity when it comes to how you look?
That is a great question.
And I don't think it has ever been truly defined.
So I'm going to give you my subjective perspective.
Unhealthy vanity let's start with a negative is when it is constantly consuming your mental thoughts almost like an addiction.
Where, no matter what you do or no matter what you try for yourself, you're constantly speaking about it in a negative way, and it's not good enough.
And so you are chasing a never-ending nothingness, because it's just not something that's achievable, right.
Whereas a healthy dose of vanity is like caring enough to show up and wear an iron shirt instead of a wrinkled shirt.
You know, caring enough to brush your hair, caring enough to show up in a way where it's still a positive reflection of who you are, but it's not consuming who you are.
Your confidence is not dependent on how you look, but it's the cherry on top and it allows you to feel more confident.
And so that I think is the difference between unhealthy vanity and healthy vanity.
What I kept thinking about as I was listening to the way that you were talking about self-criticism and never being enough, is that there's also that relationship between unhealthy being the constant pursuit of hoping other people think you look a certain way versus the ability to look in the mirror and care about how you feel about yourself.
I mean, newsflash, you've always looked like you.
So if you're always pursuing other people's approval of how you look, you're pursuing something that doesn't exist.
And I've been in practice for over 10 years.
I see nearly 100 patients a week.
And more often than not, it's a much deeper rooted issue that you're trying to get to.
And that's where it's such a vulnerable state, where you have to find someone that you know you trust, who's not going to feed off these insecurities or vulnerabilities or take advantage of.
And I've seen it through every angle.
And cosmetics is not just skin deep, it's deeper.
I've never heard anybody explain it like that.
And I can give you an example because I feel like I'm in the exam room with you right now.
And I have come in because I hate at the age of 57, I've got these like jowls.
And when you just said that it's never really about the thing you're complaining about, you're right.
For me, it's that I feel old when I see my skin sagging, and it scares me to think that I'm 57 and that that much of my life has just flown by and that somehow, if I
Get rid of these things that are hanging down like meat purses on my face, that I will feel different about myself.
But, you know, maybe there's something to do that we can and we'll talk about all that.
But I love that we're also saying that it's really about how you feel and the deeper things that are going on.
Yeah, a thousand percent.
Wow.
Let's talk about how your lifestyle and habits impact your skin.
What are the specific lifestyle habits that positively affect your skin?
The most important habits that I think are underspoken of right.
Number one and I used to roll my eyes in my 20s and even in my 30s at this one, but it's true sleep.
You cannot underestimate the value of sleep and the reason beauty sleep exists is for a reason, but I think it's misunderstood.
It's not because you slept eight hours last night that you look good today.
Sleep is like compound interest.
It's a long-term investment.
And it's that bank that you're feeding over time that gives you your best results over time in the long run.
So it's not just about having one good night's rest.
It's about consistently showing up to let your skin and your body grow, heal and regenerate and start over again.
Number two is movement.
And I'm not saying you have to go become triathletes and, like you know bodybuilders, but simple movement, like just getting up, going for a walk, moving around, because that causes your lymphatic fluid to move.
It keeps things going.
It pumps the blood to your skin.
It allows you to be better and show up better for yourself.
It's very simple, but not many people move as much as they should.
Number three, and this one is a little bit sensitive, but diet.
Okay.
A healthy diet is going to be supportive and it's going to help to create the right environment for your skin.
We are all in agreement.
But when people are eating their retinol aka eating carrots to no end to try to get the benefits of a retinol that you're applying topically, it's not going to give you that same impact as a topical medication.
Prescription moisturizer cream.
Food is meant to really be supportive, to make sure that you are creating the best environment for yourself to push forward.
Skincare with the crappiest diet is not great. you're just putting a bandaid, right?
It's both working hand in hand.
So I think you have to think of lifestyle as a piece of the puzzle, a very important piece of the puzzle, but it's not the whole puzzle, because when you make it the whole puzzle, you think that you can be fully in control, but there are going to be some things that happen that you're going to have to learn.
How do we roll with the punches?
How do we ask for help?
How do we have external things coming in to help us?
Well, Dr. Idris, the good news is that you're here to educate us about what the actual options are.
So one thing that I'd love to hear you help us with is that we are so marketed to.
And every time I go online I see some 12-step skincare routine red light masks treatments, miracle products.
How do you tune out the noise to figure out what your skin truly needs?
This is a great question.
And I think this is the million dollar question.
First of all, nobody needs a 12-step skincare routine.
Nobody.
Nobody needs to be spending thousands and countless of hours on products.
It's not productive.
It's not realistic.
And as a mom of two, who has not one but two, so I would argue, three businesses and a partner in my life, especially between the ages of zero and four, when my kids were really small, it was impossible to find time for myself.
And so...
Failing yourself by not showing up through a consistent skincare routine is the first point of failure.
So if it's not something that you can be consistent with, it's not good enough.
And a routine needs to be simple enough that you can be consistent with it.
So you can stick it through and actually see results, right?
Yeah.
So that I think is really important that people understand because the internet, social media, it's optimized for selling things.
And more doesn't mean better, especially not when it comes to your skin.
And you really have to try to take a giant step back.
And so this is what I tell patients, like I'm gonna tell you, like I tell my own family.
Literally take a giant step back from your mirror and not your magnifying mirror and look at the forest and not the tree.
Understand what is the biggest issue that you see in your skin.
Is it brown spots?
Is it redness?
Is it dehydration?
Is it wrinkles?
Is it?
I don't know, whatever creepiness, whatever it is that it is that you see what is the one biggest issue that bothers you.
And let's start just there.
If you're overwhelmed.
What are the three skincare products that you would say to somebody in your practice that they should add to their routine?
If you're overwhelmed by all the products, forget the specific products themselves.
There are three categories that you kind of want to incorporate into your routine to make sure.
Number one, that you're protecting your skin, you're supporting your skin barrier.
Number two and number three you are helping drive long-term change.
Before I start, I just want to preface this by saying I am not sponsored by any of these companies.
None of this is paid for.
This is not an advertisement.
And I try to pick products that are within everyone's budget.
Great.
But also products you can find at your local drugstore.
And I'm going to give you two examples for each, because it's the way that you know.
Make up your own mind what it is that you want to use.
We're starting with a very gentle cleanser.
One that is meant to clean and cleanse your skin without over-stripping your skin.
And this is one that you can find at any drugstore.
It's called Vanicream.
It's a very simple one.
It's nothing fancy.
It can help clean your face.
If you're somebody who has very dry skin...
You can get another kind of cleanser that is a little bit more hydrating.
But the job of a cleanser is really to just set the foundation, clean the gunk off of your face.
And it is the smallest act of kindness that you can do for yourself.
After you've put your face out into the world, come home, get the day off your face and just start afresh.
It's your foundational step.
Okay.
Right?
That's number one.
How are you supposed to wash your face?
So...
I recommend using a cleanser at night for the most part, right?
This is a general rule.
And ideally just using water in the morning.
Once you've gotten the day off at the end of the day and you've put on your moisturizer and you go to sleep in the morning, do you really need to use a cleanser to get all of the extra gunk off?
Probably not.
And just having water run on your face is going to be enough.
Wow.
Like even if you're like spouse or dog is like breathing on you.
I mean, again, I said it's a general rule of thumb.
I don't know.
Well, you know what?
I'm older than you.
So when I'm sweating like crazy because of menopause, I feel like I've woken up and run a marathon.
So I'm like, I got to clean all this stuff up.
But here's the thing.
I could do with water.
But.
Even going through menopause, right?
Yeah.
Your skin is in a more dehydrated state.
It is?
Yes.
And so you're losing that ability to hold onto hydration.
And that's why you feel a little creepier.
If you're compounding on top of that over stripping your skin and getting rid of the oil that is on your skin.
Oh. your skin is going to feel more out of sync.
And it's going to be harder to make sure that you feel more intact.
Now there's a huge subset who cannot not use a cleanser in the morning because they have a lot of acne, they're oily prone, etc.
So this is not necessarily for everyone, but for the vast majority, it is enough.
And so I think that's the first thing.
The second thing to take into consideration before you go into the action of washing your face is the water temperature, which leads me back to the dehydration.
Okay.
No one talks about water temperature.
And we usually probably use hot water because it's the morning and you want something warm on your face.
Well, yeah.
Yes.
But think of your face like a greasy pan.
Hot water gets rid of the grease.
So if you're now over stripping your face with hot water and using a cleanser, Every morning.
Every morning.
And at night, you're probably double whammying the thing.
But don't I want to get rid of the grease?
Sometimes the grease is also protective.
Like it's a balance.
It's not all bad.
Because if I cleansed at night.
Exactly.
Then the skin is doing what it's trying to do to repair itself overnight.
Exactly.
And then I wake up and wash it all away with hot water.
Okay.
Warm water.
Warm water.
Warm water.
And then this is, I think, where it gets complicated.
The double cleanse makeup removal where people get confused.
So a lot of people don't realize that they can use their cleanser twice.
Now, if they are heavy makeupers who have waterproof makeup, of course, or really heavy makeup use an oil-based cleanser first, or micellar water, and follow it with a gentle, gel-based cleanser.
That's not a problem.
But what I think is the most important part is having a washcloth for your face by your sink and utilizing that washcloth to help yourself work into the nooks and crannies of your face to get everything off.
And it's funny because people rolled their eyes and I had so many comments.
But if you have seven little washcloths, each one a different color, right?
And you keep it in your mirror, by your sink, every day.
You're guaranteeing to use a different one, and it's a fresh pair of underwear for your face.
Are we going to reuse a dirty pair of underwear?
No.
And so having a clean washcloth is such a very simple solution.
And making sure that you have seven of them takes away the brain work from it.
So you don't have to actively think of it.
And once you're done washing your face, you toss it in the hamper.
Got it.
So then number two is a very simple moisturizer.
I'm not talking about moisturizer with actives.
Right now we are setting the foundation and we're trying to understand how to moisturize our skin.
And one thing we do not often talk about is not just your skin type or your age, but the environment that you're in.
Are we living somewhere really dry?
Is it winter?
Are we somewhere very humid?
But very simple moisturizers like this one.
It's a tried and true.
Everything great was once new.
Not everything new is great.
We go for the tried and true.
This is one.
It's a nice thicker cream.
This is more of a gel moisturizer.
That's a L'Oreal collagen gel.
And the reason I bring this up is to make sure that this is a very nice hydrating moisturizer.
But the word collagen on this moisturizer makes people think that it's going to help them replenish their collagen, but it's a hydrating moisturizer.
It's not going to replenish your collagen.
And so I just think you have to understand that nuance and understand what you're buying and what you're trying to get out of it.
And then number three, what everybody should be using, a daily sunscreen.
And so there are several sunscreens that you can find at any local drugstore.
One thing that most people don't realize about sunscreen, it can double up as your moisturizer.
It can?
Yeah, for sure.
So you don't necessarily need a moisturizer.
Let's say you're really oily and you live somewhere really humid, like you're in Florida.
Do you need to add extra moisture to your skin?
Absolutely not.
So you can just find yourself a sunscreen that works for your skin type.
This is a sheer light sunscreen.
If you're somewhere very dry and you want extra moisture even though you've moisturized, you can get a moisturizing thicker, richer sunscreen that can help with barrier repair.
Got it.
And would it say moisturizer on it?
Because you've got one from Neutrogena, one from La Roche-Posay.
So they don't always say moisturizer.
This one does say, and I think it's a nice example, just because if somebody doesn't know and they're going to a drugstore, they can see it.
But it's really about understanding that texture.
If it's really rich and really creamy and nice and you feel like your skin stays hydrated after the fact, It's hydrating your skin.
So is it more about the feel of what it feels like?
Absolutely.
I think, and that's the secret about sunscreen.
It's that finding a sunscreen that you actually like how it feels on your skin.
And I think the biggest reason why most people don't adhere to wearing sunscreen is because I don't like how it feels.
And so I think people haven't found the right frog, and they've kissed many frogs, but they haven't found the right one.
What SPF should you wear every day?
It's a great question.
SPF is more than just a number.
So SPF stands for sun protection factor, but it measures basically how well your skin is protected.
So when we're looking for an SPF, we need to make sure that our SPF has broad spectrum on it.
Broad spectrum.
So that it's protecting against both UVA and UVB because both contribute to skin cancer.
One causes more burn like UVB.
One contributes more to the breakdown of your collagen like UVA.
But if you're just getting a simple sunscreen SPF, not broad spectrum you're not protecting against UVA.
So broad spectrum is not a nice to have.
It's a need to have.
Okay.
Okay.
That's number one.
The second thing, SPF 30.
People don't really know.
It's just a number.
Should I guess what I think it is?
Yeah.
I kind of believed that, like, the 15 is only going so deep in terms of the barrier.
The 30 is maybe going a little deep in terms of the It's like you know kind of the thickness Of the cream or the invisible shield.
Of the invisible shield and...
Is it actually about the number of minutes that it's helping?
Yes.
It is?
It's minutes.
So it's not 15 minutes or 30 minutes, but it roughly means how much longer you can stay out of the sun without burning, compared to no sunscreen.
So let's say... This is a lot of math.
It takes 10 minutes for you to burn.
Okay.
With an SPF of 30, it should technically take you 300 minutes.
So that's what SPF stands for.
And so it's something that most people don't even know.
Dr. Idris, what's the biggest myth about getting a safe tan?
There is no safe tan.
A tan and any form of pigment that gets produced because of the sun.
Even a freckle is a sign of DNA damage.
And so anybody who says oh, but I get a base tan is just telling me that their skin is already reacting to the UV rays that it got.
And it has internally damaged the DNA of their cells.
Whoa.
So there is no safe tan.
Okay.
So for somebody like me who really blew this child of the late 70s and the 80s, who would lather up with band of soleil tanning oil yeah, and then i would lay on my driveway with my friend jody.
Of course i had the foil, of course i was going for that copper tan.
Pull the bikini down.
I have so much skin damage but i got the tan line.
Can you reverse that damage?
What do I like?
It's never too late to help yourself.
Number one.
I think if you are somebody who's done that, make sure you go in for a yearly skin exam because yes, it's already DNA damage and you don't want to get skin cancer and you may develop skin cancer.
But the good news with skin cancer is it's highly treatable when caught early.
So don't let fear get in the way of you getting checked and just go in for a yearly skin exam.
The same way you go in for dental cleaning, get your skin checked.
But you can of course help yourself, at least from a cosmetic standpoint, because how does that damage usually show up first?
It shows up in the form of brown spots, sunspots. hyperpigmentation, discoloration.
And so understanding how to use skincare over the counter as a baseline routine, married to prescription, is going to give you a very solid way to help your skin to look fresher and better.
I'm starting to understand the marketing language now, because I am constantly seeing where it says reverses sun damage, but what it's actually saying is reverses the signs of sun damage, because you can't get rid of the damage done to the DNA.
You can just maybe lighten the brown spot that's starting to appear.
Am I catching on?
Exactly, exactly.
You're making a smarter Dr. Idris.
Exactly.
So those are the three categories of products that you need.
You need a gentle cleanser, you need a moisturizer, and you need sunscreen.
Yes.
I have so many more questions to ask you about this, but I need you to just hold on for a second because I need to take a quick break so we can hear a word from our sponsors.
And while we do, this is the perfect moment for you to share this episode with somebody that you love who's struggling with their skin or whose bathroom is overflowing with products, or who's overwhelmed and just needs this kind of reassuring message kind clear, life-changing information that Dr Idris is giving us today.
So while you listen to the sponsors, I want you to hit send, text this link to somebody.
I already know exactly who I'm sending this to and don't go anywhere, because when we come back, Dr Idris is answering more of the most asked questions in her practice.
We'll be right back.
Welcome back.
It's your friend, Mel.
Today, you and I are getting to spend time with the incredible Dr. Shireen Idris.
She's a board-certified dermatologist and one of the most trusted voices on skin health in the country.
And she's reminding you and me that your skin is not a problem to solve.
It's a relationship to build.
And today she's breaking down what to eat, what to do, what not to do if you want healthier skin that not only looks better, but that you feel good in too.
All right, Dr Idris.
Now let's talk about the things that you should skip, because they are a waste of money.
And to just think of this conceptually, anything that is promising instant results it's probably not gonna be for the best of your long-term benefit.
Anything that is breaking your skin barrier.
It's not gonna be for the best of your long-term benefit.
And anything that is irritating or inflaming your skin, similar to breaking your skin barrier.
It's not gonna be for the best of your long-term benefit.
Number one, right?
It's not sheet masks as a whole category, but when the format doesn't match what the product is trying to give you, it's a red flag.
So you're holding these masks that I see at every checkout now that have all like my daughters wear these like crazy.
I typically will put one on on a plane, but I don't know what I'm buying.
This is where you have to understand what an active is.
Okay.
So the point of a sheet mask is to calm your skin down, to hold onto that hydration, to keep that gunk in right.
Okay.
When you find a sheet mask with an active like a retinol, this is a red flag, because the format of the product doesn't match the ingredients.
The last thing I would want to do is put a retinol under occlusion in a sensitive area.
It's like a recipe for chaos and disaster.
So understanding what you're purchasing is very important for you.
That's why I think it's important to have a basic understanding of what are ingredients.
What are we trying to achieve with them?
And then, what are the different formats that exist that I can layer into my skincare once I have my foundation in place?
You know, if you were to buy a mask, what are you looking for?
Just like cooling, moisturizing?
Honestly, really just hydrating, moisturizing, because I'm looking for that instant kind of plumping glow, and then I'm done.
Got it.
I'm not looking for long-term gains with it.
Okay, what is the next product we should not waste money on?
All right, here goes.
Ready?
Uh-oh.
It's a little controversial, but like a loofah.
Okay.
Why should I not have a loofah?
Number one, what worries me a bit about loofahs is people use this on their face.
And I've seen this time and time again.
If it's not a loofah that looks like this, like a synthetic one, the traditional, natural loofahs.
People have used them on their faces.
And I've seen this in my practice.
It is a physical exfoliant that's getting rid of dead skin cells physically, right?
But the skin of your face is much thinner and it can be extremely irritating and aggressive.
Not to mention the fact that many people don't clean this.
And bacteria can build up.
Water can be stuck in there.
It can get moldy, gross and just not necessarily the best thing.
Number three, now this is not the complete devil.
There are moments when it can be useful, but this is not something I recommend every day.
Oh! makeup remover.
She's coming after the makeup wipes, everybody.
But I prefaced it.
Not every day.
Not most days.
Definitely maybe once a week.
It's like this is reserved as your SOS by your bedside.
If you had a night out and you're too tired to wash your face, at least you're guaranteeing that you're trying to show up for yourself and get that makeup off your face.
What is the downside to basically scrub?
I literally scrub my makeup off with one of those things, like I am trying to get bits off a pan that is burnt to it.
Think of it this way.
Imagine an orange, right?
And it has all these tiny little pits that are your pores.
Now let's cover that orange with foundation.
It's now whatever tone foundation orange.
Okay.
You take a makeup wipe and you clean that orange.
What are you doing?
You're basically smearing.
And what's happened is that when you look at this orange, it might have shades of orange come through, but you've really just kept the stuff in the pores.
So you haven't gotten rid of anything.
You've just smeared it across the board.
Well, and you feel like you've gotten rid of it because it's all right on the thing.
But the truth is, you're right.
I wake up in the morning.
And there's probably a little residue on that pillowcase.
On the pillow.
And my eye makeup is smeared underneath my eyes.
You're right.
And it's funny.
I mean, I've been guilty of this, right?
There are nights when I haven't washed my face.
No one's perfect.
But in your 20s and 30s, it's not that big a deal.
Once you turn 40...
If you fall asleep with makeup, you look like the Crypt Keeper overnight the next day.
It's like your skin quality goes to crap.
You can't bounce back as fast.
It's just, you see the impact immediately.
And so I think being in the habit of actually washing your face is huge.
And makeup wipes, again, there's a certain subset of the population who turns to makeup wipes.
Maybe they have a disability.
Something is better than nothing.
And that's why I say they're not the devil.
Or you're on a plane.
Fantastic.
Or it's a late night.
Fantastic.
A thousand percent.
But if it's your main way of washing your face, no.
That's why I had to preface the makeup wipes.
Now, this is also another one.
If you're a child of the 90s, no strips.
The poor strips.
Now, this is going to give you temporary results, but it's not going to give you long-term change.
And it's very visually appealing because you feel like you got something out.
Yes.
But the problem with no strips is that visual instant gratification does not equal long-term results.
And I'm just going to hyper-focus on that sentence because we like the fact that we take out the most superficial layer of our pores, but it's an extremely aggressive movement.
And over time, if you keep doing it, you're going to stretch your pores and you're probably going to buy yourself a bigger problem over time in terms of your texture and how your pores show up.
What kind of problem can it lead to?
I mean, textural changes.
It makes your pores more apparent.
Your pores can start filling up faster again because it's just getting rid of that superficial part.
Now I'm having to use it again to get it out as they're filling up.
This sounds terrible.
And this is where, like a salicylic acid cleanser can be helpful to help to minimize that buildup, instead of something that's giving you an instant gratification like cheap dopamine hip.
You use the word actives.
So let's talk more about them.
Things like vitamin C, retinol, niacinamide, if you even say it that way, hyaluronic acid.
Who should use this stuff and who should not?
Okay, so actives are very important to help support your skin overall, depending on what your goals are right.
But I just want to preface one thing again.
It doesn't mean that they are miracle ingredients.
So understanding what each one does is very important for you to know if you want it in your routine.
But let's start with vitamin C. I think vitamin C has a lot of marketing around it.
The food industry often trickles into the beauty industry.
Okay, but I don't know what it does.
No, exactly.
And I think vitamin C... I actually put it on my face and I don't know what it does.
Okay.
Vitamin C, most people, a lot of people can benefit from it.
Okay.
What does it do?
It's going to help with your overall tone of your skin.
Meaning it'll make it firmer.
Skin color.
Oh.
It's a great, great question.
And it's funny because I used to even be confused by what tone meant.
It means your skin color.
Well, can I ask a question about that?
So if you're like a pale zombie like me who turns red all the time.
It might not necessarily be the best thing for you.
Okay.
We'll talk about the types of vitamin C, but vitamin C helps with brown spots, helps with discoloration.
Yes.
Okay.
It also helps with collagen production.
You need vitamin C to produce collagen, but it also has antioxidant protection.
So it's going to help to protect your skin From like, the environmental stressors that can cause free radicals, that cause your collagen to break down early.
So it is a very powerful ingredient that has a huge track record and it's a great one to have in your routine.
But vitamin C is a category.
There's the active form of vitamin C known as ascorbic acid.
And then there's a whole inactive side to vitamin C. Oh my God.
So we may be buying something that says vitamin C that's not active, thinking it's active.
Yes.
How do we know?
This is where I think again, understanding who you're buying from, understanding the education that the brand puts out, understanding the different forms and just educating yourself, not to gain a PhD, but to know enough to be dangerous to understand.
Can I use this to help myself?
So you use vitamin c, active vitamin c for tone, for brown spots, you can use both.
Both of them help with all of these issues.
Okay, but if you're someone who thinks you have sensitive skin and your skin's very reactive, i probably wouldn't tell you to use the active form.
Okay, because it's much more pungent, or whatever the word is like.
It has a stronger punch okay um, and so i'd probably tell you go for the inactive form of vitamin, okay.
What about retinol?
Everybody's talking about retinol.
I see, you know, teenagers buying products with retinol in it.
What is retinol?
Retinol is the crown jewel of active ingredients.
It is a vitamin A derivative.
Okay.
And as a prescription, it is known as tretinoin, a retinoid.
Over the counter, it's called a retinol.
Now, like vitamin C, has an inactive form.
Retinol is the inactive form and the prescription is the active form.
But this category of vitamin A is meant to help to build thicker skin, to promote collagen production, to help regulate how your cells turn over.
So teenagers would use it originally for acne, like blackheads and whiteheads to minimize how it sticks.
And then we realized it has long-term longevity benefits.
So it became a staple for the anti-aging world.
And it has a huge track record of clinical data to support it.
But one thing that I think people get wrong about retinols and retinoids is that stronger is better.
I burnt my face doing this.
That is wrong because you are going to just it's better to be consistent over time than to go wrong and strong.
And I say with retinol.
I'm a wrong and strong gal.
Dr. Idris, I got it.
The tretinoin thing or whatever it's called.
I looked like a lizard that had red skin within a week because I probably over-applied, and then I just stopped doing it altogether.
Exactly.
You got dissuaded.
Yes.
So it's about consistency over intensity.
I would rather you pick the inactive form at its lightest concentration over the counter and use it five nights a week.
Okay.
And maybe use the prescription once.
Okay.
And have a healthy, happy skin state, because that inflammation that you're gonna cause let's say you're doing this every week long-term it's not gonna benefit you as you age.
And let's say you just did it once, you got zero benefit out of that, you've just been traumatized.
Completely.
And so I don't believe in trying to push for a higher concentration.
It's about what are you using most nights of the week and you're able to hold onto without inflaming your skin.
Talk to me about hyaluronic acid.
Hyaluronic acid.
So this was all the rage, even like four or five years ago, where you saw it on every beauty brand mass marketing campaign.
And it's funny because, when it comes to the beauty industry, The biggest barrier is marketing and education, so that consumers hear ingredients and they think oh, I need that.
Yes.
It is a humectant that attracts water.
A humectant means an ingredient that likes water and attracts it.
So what's going to happen?
It's going to give you more of a hydrating effect, a plumping effect.
You're going to look a little bit bouncier.
It's going to help with the fine lines.
Is that a good thing to look bouncier?
Why not?
Okay, well, I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't want to look this way.
That's true.
I don't either.
I'd rather be bouncy.
Okay.
But it's not the end-all, be-all and best humectant on the market, number one.
Number two, it is...
Quite literally an eight out of 10 products that you're probably using.
Oh, okay.
So do you need to have it as a dedicated product in your roundup to complicate your life and to add more stress and to add more time to your routine?
Probably not.
I love how you're simplifying all this, Dr Idris, because it just comes back to that three-step routine and asking yourself what am I not happy about?
What is it that I'd like to see an improvement in?
What is it that I want to address?
And then educating yourself about the right thing to add.
And I'm also hearing go low and slow.
Low and slow.
Low and slow on this.
Like you don't want to step on the pedal and burn your skin like Mel Robbins did.
But it's kind of like, dieting, right?
Do we go into a diet and say, I'm going to lose 80 pounds?
No, but then you don't.
And then you get dissuaded and you feel like it's not for me.
So let's focus on small wins, baby steps, things that we know we're not going to fail ourselves by, and really try to get the ball rolling in the right direction before we start to be too gung-ho about the whole process.
Dr. Idris, let's talk about sensitive skin.
70 of adults worldwide say they have sensitive skin redness irritation stinging, often from skincare products.
And they assume, okay, well, that's all that it is.
What does sensitive skin really mean?
And as a dermatologist, Dr. Idris-
What could be driving the sensitivity in the skin?
So seven out of 10 people say they have sensitive skin, but the reality is people who have true sensitivities is much lower, at one out of 10.
Wait, one out of 10 people have sensitivities?
Yes, have real sensitivities.
Okay.
So the perception of what sensitive skin is as a skin type is often misplaced, because what they're describing is not a skin condition but a skin state.
Their skin is very reactive.
They have reactive skin.
But sensitive, true sensitivities is I cannot tolerate, I'm making it up, a preservative.
And when I have this preservative on my skin, I get a crazy rash that's itchy and I flare up and it lasts for days and I have to go on medication to calm it down.
So it's more like an allergy. it becomes kind of like an allergy.
I love that.
But you could have reactive skin for a number of reasons.
You can have reactive skin.
You can just be a reactive human.
Most white people are reactive.
You're going to see redness come up on your skin.
All right?
Most white people have that reactivity in their skin.
If I wash my face, I get redder.
And then it calms down after a few minutes.
That doesn't mean I'm sensitive.
Why does it get redder?
Because of the rubbing, your blood flow, you see it more, your melanin's low, it's more obvious.
But that being said, most people don't actually have real sensitivities, and it's that skin state.
And so when you start seeing stinging, redness and burning, especially from products that never bothered you before, it's the result of long-term, probably chronic inflammation that hasn't been fully addressed, where then you develop a real sensitivity over time.
So when you have this reactive kind of skin, very easy to flare up, the first goal that you should always have is to calm your skin down.
Again going back to the basics.
Focus on a basic routine that you know your skin can tolerate, that keeps your skin calm.
And that, I think, is probably the hardest thing to do, because when people get reactive, even if it's for two, three days, they start compounding things and products, trying to fix it without letting their skin do its thing to calm down and heal.
So step one, if your skin is very sensitive or reactive, is to stop everything.
And this freaks people out.
I'm like, you're not going to melt, okay?
You're going to survive this for like a week or two.
Everything from skincare to makeup.
You're going to wash your face with water.
And if you really need something, if you really need an occlusive of some sort, you can use Vaseline.
But you have to calm the skin before you can correct it.
And then step two is very boring and very slow, but you rebuild your barrier slowly.
So you first incorporate, then a moisturizer and you let that work for you for a few days and you make sure that you're not reacting to that for a few days.
Once you have that green check mark and green light, then you incorporate a cleanser.
You see how your skin does with the cleanser and the moisturizer over a few days, and then it can allow you to sort of pivot and see in which direction you're going.
But that puts the control back in your hands, that you're not just living this crazy life of reactivity and trying to calm it with this and use that, and then it stings more and it gets more inflamed and it's this never ending cycle.
It just cuts it, resets it and allows you to restart in a very systematic and academic way, so you can pinpoint where are the shortcomings and how can I pivot.
So, if you're dealing with reactive skin, take a step back, calm down, stop everything.
Start with a moisturizer that's not got active stuff in it, because we got to rebuild the barrier, and then we can slowly start to add in a cleanser and do some of the basics to give our skin a break.
You're a very good listener.
Well, because I want to make sure I'm getting this.
That's exactly it.
Because I think I've overcomplicated everything my whole life.
You and most people.
Yeah.
Let's talk about acne.
It affects up to 50 million people a year in the U.S. alone.
And I understand that there are different types of acne.
And so can you explain the different types of acne and how someone can tell what they're dealing with.
Yes, for sure.
So acne is not just a teenage problem.
I want to start off by saying that I have so many women who are 28, 35, 44 who get acne.
They're like, I don't understand.
I'm not a teenager anymore.
Wasn't I past this stage of my life?
But there's four subtypes.
One, and we're going to just start with hormonal acne because I mentioned these women.
But hormonal acne is driven by hormonal fluctuations that come and go.
And because your skin is your biggest visible organ that has a feedback system, it's going to show up on your skin, especially due to androgen sensitivity.
So testosterone-like hormones.
And patterns are key here.
With hormonal acne.
You tend to notice it mostly along the jawline, where you get these deep cystic pimples along your jawline in a cyclical fashion fashion around your period.
And so that clinical history and the physical distribution usually points towards hormonal acne.
Then you have inflammatory acne number two.
Inflammatory acne you can kind of think of as that classic red pimple pustule on your face, coming and going a little haphazard on your cheeks, your nose, your forehead, chin etc.
And it is often triggered by over-exfoliation.
Hard products, barrier damage, people who have over-stripped their skin, harsh winters even if you have done nothing, it can cause it.
That inflammatory acne, if not under control or taken care of, can lead to deeper cystic acne, which is number three.
The deep, painful pimples and nodules that can leave really bad scarring.
And this is one where it is a spectrum.
There is a continuation, but you can also just go straight to cystic acne on your own, just as a predisposition.
And what breaks my heart is when I I'm all for body positivity, but when you see people with really bad cystic acne just trying to use a pimple patch, when you could try to treat it to minimize the scarring left behind, it's huge and it can change your overall confidence.
It can change how you show up in social settings.
It can change how you present for yourself.
And it really has a very strong mental connection.
And then you have number four, comedonal acne.
Comedones are blackheads, whiteheads.
So you can have a little bit of everything, of course, but it's nice when you try to pinpoint what is the biggest root cause and start treating it there so you can start to see the improvements.
Dr. Idris, why does adult acne happen?
And what is different about it when you suddenly have acne in your 30s, 40s or 50s versus being a teenager?
Because your hormones are not stabilized.
They're fluctuating.
So you are a hormonal up and down.
Compound that with the fact with as we age, our cells turn over every 28 days or so.
But with each decade, you can add 10 days.
So in your 30s, it might be 38 days.
In your 40s, it might be 48 days.
So your cells are not differentiating as fast.
So now we have inflammation.
Now we have slower cell turnover.
Now we have hormonal fluctuation.
And so we tend to be more sensitive to it as we're going through those cycles of life.
What are some of the sneaky triggers that that can cause a flare-up of acne that people don't even realize are the cause of acne?
So other than like the basic ones, right?
Hair products.
Hair products can cause acne?
Can sometimes be very, very oily and can clog pores.
So you have to be careful in what you're using.
Touching your face.
Not just with your hands, but like, let's say I just took my hand.
I do have a problem.
I touch my face a lot.
But even through your phone.
When's the last time you really cleaned your phone?
Oh, God.
And making sure your glasses.
I always get stuff underneath my glasses.
Especially if you're wearing makeups.
So things that are coming into contact with your face that are not just your hands.
And this goes even into the makeup world.
Have we washed our brushes?
Are we washing them regularly?
Most people are not.
They're using an old beauty blender that's been around.
And so it doesn't mean that you're dirty, but it just means these are things that we have to take into consideration when we're thinking about our face.
Heat and sweating definitely can also impact.
And then diet.
I think diet, like I said, is part of the picture.
It's not the whole picture, but you can support better skin with a better diet.
I am so glad you're breaking this down.
This is so important.
I can think of three people in my life right now that I want to share this with immediately.
And I know you can too.
So let's hit the pause button, give our sponsors a chance to share a few words with you.
And I want you to have a chance to share all of this incredible information and tactical advice and all of the BS she's calling out with the people that you care about.
And don't go anywhere.
Because when we come back, Dr Idris has so many more specific things that she wants to teach you and you need to know.
All righty.
We'll be right back.
Welcome back.
It's your friend Mel Robbins.
And today we're spending time with Dr Shireen Idris, board-certified dermatologist, one of the most trusted voices in skin health, who says your skin is not a problem to solve.
It's a relationship to build.
All right.
Dr Idris, you say that one of the most common things that people come into your clinical practice seeking help for is melasma.
What is that?
I studied it in theory.
I studied it in medical school.
I learned about it in residency.
And then I experienced it when I went through IVF.
But melasma is hormonal pigmentation that is driven by your hormones.
And it usually appears on your face in patches.
Sometimes they're discreet and sometimes they're bigger, usually on your cheeks or your forehead.
And they can get really emphasized with your pregnancy going through IVF, with your period going through menopause, life stress.
You cannot predict it.
And so with melasma it's so tricky because the gold standard is treating it with a prescription medication like hydroquinone.
But you can't be on hydroquinone forever in perpetuity.
You have to take breaks when you use hydroquinone.
And if you take a break, does it come back?
Exactly.
So your over-the-counter routine has to be geared towards sustaining how you produce pigment so that the prescriptions can really have hopefully, more impact on a longer term.
So you're not always running back to them.
Now in recent years there have been recent discoveries like oral medications that can help with deeper melasma, like dermal melasma.
Not everyone is a candidate, but it's called tranexamic acid.
If you're prone to blood clots, it's not for you.
But if you've never had one, it can change how you see yourself.
And the reason I'm telling you this is when my melasma flared.
I felt like a cryptkeeper overnight, and I was 34 or 35.
And I remember my younger cousin, this hot young girl from Geneva comes over and she's like, hi.
And that was her.
I was like, what?
I just had a baby.
And she goes, that's your first reaction.
She goes, yeah, but what happened to your face?
And it hit me like it was like a dagger to my heart, like because I felt bad about myself.
And so when you have melasma, there's this constant feeling that you need to hide your face.
And it's a very heavy feeling that sounds so silly and vain.
But the repercussion is so much deeper that I didn't want to take a picture of my baby.
I don't have any pictures of my daughter when she was the first couple of weeks old.
That is so silly.
Because I didn't want to see my face.
And so I think when you have conditions like this, it really does amplify that skin is not just a cosmetic organ.
It's a whole person issue.
And melasma is such a visual of that that for me, it's one of those conditions that I really do try to help people through, not just in my practice, not just through my skincare routine, but educating online so that they know that they have tools at their disposal to help themselves.
All right. for the moment I've been waiting for personally.
I want to talk about aging skin.
Okay.
You said there are two key ages when your skin really changes.
What is going on biologically beneath the skin that causes these spikes with your skin change?
The first thing is understanding that aging, it's not a linear process.
There are moments in your life when you age faster.
There are moments in your life when you age slower.
And understanding that timing and having your finger on the beat of that pulse helps, because it allows you to know what to expect.
So everything I'm going to tell you is not to breed insecurity or scare you, but it's so that you go into it feeling more prepared, less intimidated, etc.
So the first peak is really in your late 20s, early 30s, where over the course of six months you notice something shifts and you can't quite put your finger on it.
And I think today's generation is much more attuned to it.
Because of social, because of Zoom, because of all the screen time that they have and selfies that they take, they see it faster.
And what are they seeing in your late 20s and 30s?
What do your patients come in and kind of report to you?
You're going from a growth phase where you're producing collagen in your teens and early twenties to the beginning of a maintenance phase.
And starting in your mid twenties, you start to lose around 1% of collagen a year.
So what they described is very subtle and not really ill-defined, but they noticed like a flattening on the sides of their face.
Like something looks a little flatter.
They don't really know what they're pointing out to, but they look.
I don't know what it is, but I just look different.
Right.
The second peak is a little bit more dramatic.
It happens, and I've noticed this myself.
I'm going to be 42 in a week, but this happened at 38 where, over the course of a month, suddenly I thought I developed jowls and I saw them.
And It's because the bony and structural foundation of your face, your bone structure, what's holding your face, starts to get thinner.
And for me, it also coincided after breastfeeding and having babies.
And something shifted in my structure.
And I remember walking by that elevator being like, oof, what is that?
But it was good and very humbling to feel it, because it allowed me to understand what my patients are going through.
But your facial bone remodeling that is actively happening, it's like a scaffold, right?
Think of a scaffold holding up a structure.
As it starts to get smaller.
What's happening around it?
Your volume, your fat pads, your skin starts to shift and fall.
Yeah, it's hanging there.
It starts hanging.
Yes.
I've hit that one.
I've hit it too.
But this is where bone health matters, by the way.
This whole concept of really weightlifting and taking care of your bones is huge for women.
And the first place you really start to see it is your face.
Shut up.
So I can get rid of my jowls by lifting weights?
I think when you really build a strong bone structure and really make sure that you're focusing on your bone health, you're not necessarily going to get rid of them, but it's going to make sure that you stay more intact.
Now, genetics come into play, but you can try to help yourself.
Now, this is the third peak that has been scientifically proven.
And the actual age that they say, I think, is 44.
There's a biomolecular shift and your cells age faster at this age.
And what I hear from my patients and I've heard this time and time again is I've gone to sleep and I woke up and I don't recognize myself.
And it's happening.
And should I get a facelift?
And it's like panic panic panic, panic panic, on top of the fact that they're probably in perimenopause and their estrogen levels are starting to decline.
And estrogen is really, you know, a hormone that helps with skin thickness.
It helps with hydration, collagen production, oil production.
So, as the levels start to go down, your skin starts to feel thinner, plus the inherent DNA change that happens in both men and women.
And it's like all hell breaks loose.
Yes.
And then there's a fourth peak.
That happens in our early 60s, where at this point I think we've come to a better understanding of who we are and how we're aging.
It's something that's not as dramatic because it's not so sudden as at 44.
But you have your bones, you have your volume, you have your skin quality.
All three of them are kind of shifting at the same time.
And there's another little accelerated burst in the aging process.
You know, as a dermatologist, I want to know because I've had this conversation with so many friends.
You know, one day you look in the mirror and you think oh, my God, who is that?
How do you best deal with the emotional sign of aging sagging, texture changes and this recognition that it just feels like it's out of your control?
This is probably for me, I think, one of the most important questions that you ask, because hopefully we all have long lives and our skin is so tied to our visible identity that that we don't often think of the opposite, of how our skin affects our mental health.
And as we get older, things shift relatively fast.
Give yourself some grace.
It's not because you didn't do.
It's not because you didn't use.
It's not because you did binge.
Life was going to happen, but what can we do now to support ourselves?
Having that sort of understanding really does lower that sort of energy around the aging process.
And then just being open to learning about what is at your disposal, from over-the-counter skincare to maybe prescription, to maybe something minimally invasive, to maybe something more extreme.
And what is it that you want to do to help support yourself?
Because when you help yourself, it's not like you need this to be confident.
The goal is hopefully you're confident with yourself and this is a cherry on top.
But when you support yourself it makes you feel better in how you show up for the world and taking away that judgment, even though you had that judgment prior.
But once you live through something, you see it through a different lens and you realize that you know there are ways that you can help yourself without changing who you are and still be who you are.
I love that.
What do we do about these sagging jowls?
Why do we develop them?
And what the heck can we do about them?
The dreaded jowls.
I hate these things.
Even the word sucks.
I hate them.
It's like skin purses hanging off.
It's like, where did these pockets come from?
I'm not a squirrel that needs to store nuts in the winter, so I don't need this extra skin.
I want to get rid of it.
What do I do?
Okay.
So first, it's important.
It's not a skincare failure.
It's not because you didn't have a good skincare routine.
It's not because you didn't wear sunscreen correctly.
It's a structural problem.
Yeah, it feels like a face failure, if I'm being honest.
It's a structural issue.
Okay.
And so the four things that lead to jowls, right?
Yep.
Your bone, your structural bone changes.
That scaffold that's holding your face up is slowly disintegrating.
Okay.
Right?
And so what's happening from there are fat pads in our face.
And we have many of them.
They start to redistribute and drop in addition to the fact that they shrink.
And then on top of it, the surface, your skin, almost like the fabric of a couch, doesn't have anywhere to go.
Plus it's losing that collagen and elasticity.
So it tends to just drape around it.
So all of those three reasons, compounded with potentially a fourth, which is repetitive muscle movement.
There are some people who talk a lot like this, or pull their teeth and you can see their lower teeth when they speak.
That emphasizes it.
And so that is something that I think is really important that you understand, so that you don't go buy, for example, a firming cream or a.
It's not going to do anything.
And so at some point you're going to have to know where it's like a skincare failure or an anatomic failure.
But if you get them and if they're affecting you from an emotional perspective and if they're making you feel confident and you're thinking about it more often than not.
I am.
And here's the thing I want to.
So what happened for me is I started to notice it and I obviously have a public career, but since we all have cell phones, everybody's seeing their face all the time.
And so you just start to notice...
What is this sagging thing that's happening?
And now that I know that it's structural and I can't buy a cream, I'm depressed.
So now I need something else.
But I started talking about it with my sister-in-law, Christine, who's my business partner.
And then Kris Jenner gets the most incredible facelift I've ever seen.
I talked to my sister-in-law, Christine, about it.
I now have my entire feed on social media.
Of those plans dermal, whatever the heck it is, facelift things, plus all these women trying to teach you how to massage with your knuckles, straight up.
I even tried the face massage.
I'm like, I am so not disciplined.
I don't think I could do this for two years straight.
Uh-huh.
Does this stuff work?
Like, what are we doing?
Okay, I know.
You're probably stressing yourself out.
I'm just being honest.
Okay, okay, okay.
So first thing is, at least you know that it's bothering you.
A lot.
A lot of people don't realize that.
Okay.
And they don't know what it is, but they're just getting angrier or more upset.
So at least you know it's bothering you.
Yes.
When you know it's bothering you, you know, okay, what are my options?
Extreme is surgery, but there's a whole slew of things you could try to do for yourself if you do not want surgery or if it's not for you.
Let's talk about the things that are not surgery.
We can absolutely talk about those things.
So what are the options?
What am I doing?
Okay.
Starting with what you've already done.
Yes.
Your facial massaging.
What you're doing when you're massaging your face is moving lymphatic fluid around.
So on the margin, it's going to minimize that puff that's accumulating in gravity-dependent areas.
Is it going to make you look like a fetus?
Probably not.
So again, understand what you're doing and why so you know how to continue.
So it's not changing.
When I take my knuckles or that L-shaped thing and I do one of these things and I do this, and then people are like this and do all this and they're like, and then you look like this this
It's a temporary improvement.
And so I might be emptying the bags of some of the things in there, but the extra skin isn't going anywhere because it's a structural issue.
It's a structural issue.
Exactly.
So this is not me saying that it's useless.
If you look better before a red carpet event, of course do it.
But if you're doing it thinking you're getting your skin to get tighter, no.
I am.
You're not, you're not, you're not, you're just not.
So that's not going to help.
Oh my God.
So that's that.
So beyond skincare and into the office, right?
There's a whole slew of things.
And before we get into the details of every single treatment, what I tell my patients is when you think of aging, there's like five or six categories that you can think of that you can actually help with.
One is the lines that are built in on your face that are due to repetitive movement.
That's Botox.
But Botox can also change how you speak with your expression.
So like I say, you pull down, it can help to minimize that pull to minimize the look of the jowls.
Two is, where are we from a volume standpoint?
Do we have a lot of volume, but we're sagging?
And again, I'm generalizing, right?
There's always shades of gray.
Or do we have volume, but we're sinking now because it's kind of like going in and we're caving in?
And this is where fillers come into play, not to fill, not to create new proportion.
And that's where people get into trouble.
But when you use fillers very, very conservatively to keep the proportion of your face intact overall, and it's not symmetry, because symmetry doesn't exist.
You can look more cohesive from a volume perspective, but that alone, volume fillers right, or stimulants, are not going to necessarily get rid of the fine lines that are etched on your face.
Different problem, different solution.
Okay.
I don't treat my depression with an antibiotic.
Same thing.
Okay.
Then you have your skin tone.
Do we have brown spots?
Do we have redness?
And this, for me, I'm very passionate about, because it's the one place where people can take control and ownership over their skin tone by using the right products at home.
First,
And if someone comes in and tells me I want a laser treatment, but they're not doing anything for their skin, I look at them and I say, do you go to the dentist for dental cleaning?
But you don't brush your teeth every day, right?
No, no one does that.
If you're not brushing your teeth, you're not getting a dental cleaning once a year.
So a laser is your dental cleaning and everyday maintenance is your most important part.
Got it.
Okay.
Number four is your overall elasticity and texture.
Do we have acne scars?
Are we losing that?
There are treatments in office that can be done to try to strengthen the foundation of your skin.
Really?
Yeah.
Like to get rid of that creepy old couch, saggy ass thing?
A little bit.
It's not going to get rid of it.
Again, realistic expectations.
But do we have radio frequency energies?
We have ultrasound energy, heat-based devices.
But it's a tipping point.
You don't want to overdo it and get rid of fat.
So you have to find the right provider who understands your structure, where you're at and what your wants are for down the road.
So you're mapping the arc of your life.
How do you want to age?
And then we're plugging and playing.
And then you have, like I said, your bone structure.
And then there is this whole world of bioregenerative.
What can we use from our own body to stimulate our own skin to the best of its ability?
I don't know, what?
There is PRP and PRF from our blood and these has growth factors.
But growth factors- Is that that vampire facial thing?
Yes, but growth factors- Does that work?
It's interesting.
Growth factors are like fertilizer.
It's going to stimulate as good as the environment that you put it in.
It's not always a home run.
And I tell patients very honestly the biggest thing you risk losing is money, but you're never going to know until you try.
Then you have your fat. where through fat, you can revolumize.
But the more interesting part about fat is that you can get fat stem cells.
And that's like a seed for plants.
When you plant the seed, something is going to grow.
And with fat stem cells, you can really regenerate tissue.
In your face.
In your face, in your underarms, on your neck, your chest, your hands, your knees, like I've done it all over.
But it's something that you can help yourself with.
It's not something you do all the time, maybe two, three times a decade, but it's something that, let's say you're in your early forties, you're hitting this perimenopause.
You start to help your body regenerate as everything else is declining.
Over time will you look more cohesive, where maybe you can push back surgery if your structure allows right.
And let's say you do want surgery.
Does it give you better results because your whole ecosystem looks better for you?
Got it.
So there are many layers to this Onion and it's not.
I'm going to get a laser treatment for my volume.
Lasers are not going to give you the volume because it's not the problem that it's addressing.
And that's something that's often missed in cosmetics, where people think oh, it's a magical laser or a magical device or a magical injectable.
But the reality is you have to understand, again, expectations meeting reality.
Wow.
That was so helpful.
So where does collagen fit into all of this?
It's a great question.
Can you boost it?
And what are the two best ways if you can?
So people think fine line wrinkles, they think collagen.
Yes.
And collagen is the main structural protein in your skin.
But we know starting in our late 20s, it starts to decline at a rate of around 1% a year, right?
And this is due to internal changes, sun, hormones, maybe even inflammation.
But I think, when you're trying to simplify it, three ways that you can think of boosting your collagen, starting with number one and the most trend-worthy collagen supplements and diet.
There's confusion in marketing.
Diet is very important.
Like I said, it's going to support your collagen production.
It is going to help your collagen production.
And if you have a very well-balanced diet, you do not need the supplement.
Okay.
But just taking a collagen supplement and expecting it to go straight to your skin for good skin, you're misleading yourself.
And it's not a necessity.
Okay.
It's very expensive.
It can be a whole budget on its own.
So really, I would focus on the well-balanced diet where you're getting that protein intake.
You're getting all of that to create that foundation for your skin.
And if you want to add the collagen supplements, great.
They're not going to hurt you, but they're not going to be the only answer to help yourself.
Got it.
Okay.
Number two, topical skincare.
This works with consistency and maintenance.
It does not work as a one-off.
So being consistent with a retinol can stimulate collagen production over time.
Got it.
Protecting your skin with sunscreen is not going to make collagen today, but over time, when you look back, you will look better.
And so having those maintenance points in your skincare can help.
And number three in-office procedures.
If skincare is maintenance, in-office procedures are like little accelerators, right?
Microneedling can boost a little bit your collagen production and your cell turnover.
Certain laser treatments can help you help yourself.
So there are little ways that you can help yourself through outside interventions to keep that collagen boosted over time.
Let's talk about injectables.
Who are they for?
That's a very good question.
I think it depends on the problem that we described.
Do we have lines that are built in?
Do we have volume issues?
What are we trying to achieve through them?
I think the reason why they've all got a bad rep and injectables being Botox and fillers all together is not one single reason.
I think it's multifactorial.
I'm a provider myself.
And I think as someone in this field, providers do play a role.
I think patients also come in expecting this instant gratification culture where more is more and they want to see the results right away.
Botox is going to help you by minimizing how much you're moving your muscles.
The goal of Botox is not to freeze you in perpetuity.
I'm not trying to embalm you in Botox, right?
And so when you understand that you start to see Botox through the lens of oh, it's giving my face moments of pause throughout the year.
So again, instead of aging more like this, I'm aging more like that.
Yeah.
Okay.
Where, instead of pulling down constantly, maybe it will help me change how I just move, so I don't keep pulling, because I know my jowls bother me.
Yeah.
So that's where Botox comes in.
And side note, that's why I think I personally have an issue with, like the preventative Botox aspects of life, because what are we preventing?
What are you preventing?
The lines are going to form.
And so when people have no lines on their face and they want to start Botox, they're coming to me from a fear-based, you know, motivation.
And that for me is a sign that they shouldn't be doing it.
Because when you do anything out of fear, you're not doing it for the right reasons.
And starting too young is going to push you into this world where you think you need to be frozen.
So I don't believe in it.
And I usually tell younger... What's too young, you think?
Because I see this too with the 20-somethings that I know, you know, wrenching up their forehead.
I think I need to... I'm like, what?
I mean, I think it's a great question that comes up and it's rightfully asked.
Yeah.
But it's hard to pinpoint a number.
I've seen 20-year-olds who look really old, and I've seen 60-year-olds who look really young.
So I'm a little skewed.
I think when the lines are there and they don't go away and they're really bugging you, that's when you can start.
Fillers, like I said, it's a different category.
The goal is to keep the proportion of your face intact.
And when it's done very, very subtly, you shouldn't be able to notice it.
And it's not like you all, and how often are you doing it?
How much are you injecting?
Where are you injecting?
Are you injecting to try to catch up with time, or are you injecting to play with where you're at right now?
And so I think having that understanding is finding that provider that you fully trust.
I love that.
It's a person listening is in a moment in their life where their confidence is in the gutter because of the state of their skin, or one of their kids is in the gutter confidence-wise because of the state of their skin.
I would love to have you speak to them and tell them what a few simple things are that they can do this week To just feel better, even if their skin is not going to change overnight.
It's going to change over time.
Okay.
So if you're listening and you're feeling out of sorts because of how your skin looks, your confidence is not going to come from changing your skin first.
It's going to come by changing your relationship to your skin first.
So do not start by trying to fix everything all at once, because you're going to open the floodgates and it's never going to amount to anything.
So three simple things that you can do today is one, simplify your skincare routine.
Simplify, simplify so you can be consistent.
And even if that's just, I'm going to wash my face, start with that.
Small changes give you a sense of control and you start to feel better.
Two, throw your magnifying mirror out.
I cannot say this enough.
Nobody is looking at you under a 10x zoom.
Throw it out.
It is causing more harm than good.
And just start looking at yourself at a distance where people look at you, and how you are seen and how you see yourself under the light that you normally see yourself.
But a magnifying mirror is probably your biggest enemy.
And number three do something for yourself, even if it's not skincare related.
Maybe it's wear mascara, put on a red lip, wear the sexy jeans that make you feel good.
Do something for yourself that helps you feel put together like you're wearing an iron shirt.
I think those three little things can cause automatic boosts of confidence and really allow you to start feeling like you're in control so you can make a change and a shift for yourself.
I love that.
Thank you.
If you had to distill everything that you have taught us today into a very simple takeaway, what's the number one thing, Dr Idris, that the person listening or watching on YouTube should remember and do after listening to this?
I think if you're going to take away one thing from listening to this today, it's that your skin is not a problem to solve.
It is a relationship to build and you have to get to know your skin, understand the feedback, understand the signals and hopefully, gain a better understanding of what's at your disposal, so that when you're treating yourself, your expectations are met and you're not feeling like you're in a never-ending cycle of nothingness.
Because ultimately, it's consistency that matters most You want to show up without shame.
And I think telling people that you care about how your skin looks can sometimes be shameful.
And you want to care for yourself without that shame.
And I think understanding The basics will always serve you better than the trends.
I am so thrilled that you came.
I learned so much.
Dr. Idris, what are your parting words?
Be kind to yourself in the process.
I think life is going to happen.
Don't beat yourself up, but also be willing to change your own perspectives.
And have an open mind when it comes to yourself in the aging process, because what I've seen in my life and in my practice, and also in my own personal experience is, more often than not, we are the ones who stand in our own way.
So I think this is something that may sound superficial in vain, but really just be really kind to yourself from the inside out and the outside in.
Your skin is not a problem to solve.
It's a relationship to build.
And I am grateful that you have taught us, using the research and the facts, about the simple things that we can do, whether it's sleep or the taking a step back or really looking holistically, or just the three simple things that you need identifying the issue or the thing you want to improve as you build a better relationship with yourself and your skin.
I feel more comfortable in my own skin.
I feel empowered.
I'm so excited by what you have taught us today.
So, from the bottom of my heart, thank you, thank you, thank you on behalf of myself and every single person around the world who's going to listen to this and share this as a free resource with the people that they love.
Well, I'm very grateful and thank you for allowing me the time and the space to dive in.
Well, you destroyed it, woman.
And I also want to tell you before you leave, as your friend, I am so excited that you took the time to listen to something and to educate yourself.
I learned so much.
I know you did too.
I have so many friends I am sending this to.
I feel like we got a consultation with a world-renowned dermatologist who has helped both you and me understand what we need to do to take care of the largest organ in our body and be comfortable in our skin.
And how cool is that?
And as your friend, I want to be sure to tell you, in case nobody else does, that I love you and I believe in you and I believe in your ability to create a better life.
And what you learned today and the relationship that you can build with yourself will absolutely make your life better.
So I hope you take the words to heart and you do it.
Alrighty, I will be waiting for you in the very next episode.
I'm going to welcome you in the moment you hit play.
I'll see you there.
Trace, you're ready?
Okay.
I am so excited that you're here.
I'm so grateful.
Honestly, like genuinely, thank you so much.
This is nuts.
What am I doing here?
What are you doing here?
I don't know.
You are somebody that we notice and you're somebody that deserves a larger platform.
Well, thank you.
Well, I'm grateful you said yes.
Oh, you're doing great.
Really?
I'm like, you need to be on HSN.
TikTok shop, baby.
I actually have to go to the bathroom.
So let's see, can we take like a two minute pause?
Was that good or no?
I don't know.
It was fantastic.
People are going to be interested.
Interested?
You're so good.
Oh, and one more thing.
And no, this is not a blooper.
This is the legal language.
You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you.
This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes.
I'm just your friend.
I am not a licensed therapist.
And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist or other qualified professional.
Got it?
Good.
I'll see you in the next episode.
