Hi, my name is David Oyelowo, and I feel... Conanified.
Nice.
About being Conan O'Brien's friend.
That is a very expensive process to be Conanified.
Very few people can imagine the most expensive spa weekend.
Fall is here, hear the yell.
Back to school, ring the bell.
Brand new shoes, walking blues.
Climb the fence, books and pens.
I can tell that we are gonna be friends.
Yes, I can tell that we are gonna be friends.
Hey there, welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend.
My name, Conan O'Brien.
Sonam of Sessions joining us too.
Yes.
And Matt Gourley is still out on paternity leave, but we are joined by David Hopping.
Hello.
The assistant who replaced Sona and made her but a dim memory.
Oh, dim.
What?
Full celebrity now?
No, dim memory.
Well, I don't even remember.
We still work with each other.
Who are you?
Listen, when this episode drops, it's going to be tax time.
Oh my God, you're actually doing it.
We're really talking about it?
I've been told that this is a dreadful thing to talk about, which makes me want to talk about it.
No!
Yeah.
So tax time.
Sona, you got your papers in order?
No, I just remembered.
When we were talking about this, I said oh no, I got to send my accountant all my stuff.
Yeah, well, how hard is that?
It's a lot.
Do you have like a big shoebox that's filled with papers?
No, that's the old... Why are you laughing?
Because I do.
All of the papers that are mailed to me, I just stick them in a thing, a folder.
Okay.
So yeah, it's like a shoebox, but I don't have like receipts.
Okay.
I don't have my receipts.
Okay.
I don't do any of that.
All right.
So you just have some papers.
Yes.
And you got to get them to the accountant.
Yeah.
Like you probably do.
That's a fun story.
Oh, I don't touch anything.
I live in a bubble.
I'm a, you know, I'm an LLC.
I'm an offshore illegal company.
Do you know what I mean?
Yeah.
Papers get moved around.
You know, things are purchased and sold without my knowledge.
And I'm just sitting in a geodesic dome covered in yak butter going, what's happening?
What's happening outside?
What's happening? um david i don't even want to know what your story is you still need to do mine too okay we're all behind well okay but what do you have do you have uh papers receipts papers you so you employ me yeah and so then i have to i get those papers i don't even know that do you get paid for what you do i get paid you you pay me that's insane i don't pay you uh faceless corporation yes again i don't know what's happening um eduardo what's your story how do you get your taxes done on time i But who does your taxes?
Oh, what a dick.
Who does your taxes?
Do you want me to give like a plug?
No.
Do you have an account?
Do you have a guy?
Yeah, I have a guy.
Because you know, my dad does his own.
Your dad does his own?
Yeah.
Fraud!
There's no way he's not breaking the law.
How dare you?
He came from another land.
He doesn't know about our American ways.
A lot of people do their own taxes.
They just fill in things in the boxes.
I know, but come on.
Is he on the up and up your pops?
Yeah, Gil is all, how dare you?
What is your issue with my dad?
You're just jealous he can grow a mustache.
I love your dad.
I love your dad.
Gil is the man.
But I'm just curious.
You know he came to this land America, and I'm curious if he's familiar with all of our ways and he's paying taxes.
It's all going well.
He's been here for almost 60 years.
Takes a while to get used to stuff, you know, that's all.
Oh, you're awful.
You're awful.
Look how you're smiling.
You love it.
You love this version of you.
This is you.
This is your real you.
Halo.
The real you.
This is it.
No, listen.
What's this now?
Blay, you've got something to say?
I want to hear who says Blay.
I don't.
Not only do I have nothing to say, I'm trying to hide behind Sona's hair so you don't look at me.
No, but who does your taxes, Blake?
Okay.
My mom does my taxes.
Your mom does your taxes?
My mom, my Mary Blair, bless her heart, does my taxes.
That's sweet.
And I'm sorry.
It's a very emotional thing between the two of us.
She demands to do it.
It's back and forth.
She demands to do it.
No, she does.
I don't think she demands to do it.
She absolutely demands to do it.
So she's on the phone with you saying, how come you spent this much on a Spider-Man flashlight?
You know what?
She actually is, but... Wait, hold it.
Wait a minute.
You don't silence me on Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend.
You take the punishment.
Oh my God.
So you have to talk to your mom about all the shit you buy, the video games, the figurines, right?
The swords.
The swords.
Yes.
Yes.
Then your mom goes over all the stuff that you bought.
Yes, she does.
Oh, my God.
Yes, but here's the thing that you don't understand.
She's into it.
She's into it.
I get to talk to her about it.
She does not say, oh, you bought a Spider-Man costume.
She's like, how many Spider-Man costumes can we write off?
She's fully into it.
She asked me.
How can you write off a Spider-Man costume?
Because I work for you.
What are you talking about?
Wait a minute.
Because you work for me, you're allowed to have the government pay for part of your Spider-Man costume.
No.
The whole thing.
Now audit him.
Audit him.
Audit him.
You're blaming Bill.
You're blaming Gil for fraud.
Look at this.
Yes, I'm sorry.
I think you and Gil are guilty of fraud.
It's all about board.
This is how good my mom, this is how cool my mom is.
She, I was going to go to the Renaissance Fair and she's like, maybe you should buy another sword.
We could write that off.
And I was like, wait a minute, explain to me.
Oh, wait a minute.
I think we have a lawyer who's probably not in today, but he could join us.
Listen, listen, why?
Why?
The fact that you work for Conan O'Brien doesn't mean that I just bought 900 pounds of silly string and I don't want to pay for it.
If I can get you to talk about it on the podcast and I bring it.
Guess what?
Get you to talk about it?
Get you to talk about it?
Who has... So you're the puppet master?
I'm not.
I'm just... I'm the worm tongue.
I'm worm tongue.
I whisper in your ear.
You did talk about his sword.
Wait a minute.
This is clear to me.
Who has talked about...
Who has managed to bring in his sword two years in a row and his new axe?
So that means Aaron Blair.
This wasn't an idea that you thought was good for the podcast.
You thought I've got to write this fucker off.
And I came in and I jammed into the conversation.
Conan, be fucked whether it's good or not.
And then you walk away and Uncle Sam takes it up the old star spangled yin yang.
It can be both.
I can write it off and it can be good content.
I don't like this.
So if we talk about something on the podcast, it's a write-off?
That's one.
It's part of my job.
I need it for my job.
I got to write it off.
So how's that Hilary Duff ticket going?
I was going to say, The Backstreet Boys tickets, write off.
You should talk to my mom.
She would say, you can easily write it off.
Is your mom a therapist?
Is she even an accountant?
No, she's a therapist.
She uses TurboTax.
Wait a minute.
Wait a minute.
Wait a minute.
Your mom isn't even a tax accountant?
No.
Your mom is not an accountant?
No.
And she's not a tax?
No.
And she's actually bad at it.
So your mom is insisting on doing it and then she just hires TurboTax?
She doesn't hire it.
And says my son just bought seven Xena Warrior Princess chest plates?
That's right.
And we want our cash back.
That's correct.
Yes, that's exactly right.
This is... I'm dying.
I'm dying.
This is... No.
There's just...
We are just rotten with fraud.
There's just fraud permeating this whole... And I'm exposing it right now.
We're all going to get audited.
But it's not fraud if it's good content.
We're making a good... I haven't listened to this.
I don't listen to this thing.
I don't know if it's good content.
Oh, my God.
Okay, I want you investigated.
I'm going to see to that.
We're shutting this down.
Adam's crying in the corner.
Adam, Adam, Adam.
I've never seen Adam laugh this way.
Adam, I don't know what you're doing.
You're supposed to be running this thing.
You're the podcast whisperer.
I feel really, I'm offended by Blake.
I'm really offended.
I really feel like we've all been taken advantage of.
He comes in with this shit.
I'm shocked.
And he's like, I'm just trying to help the podcast.
Oh, help the podcast.
The podcast is a juggernaut.
You can't beat this thing with a stick.
And then you come in here with your Princess Galactica helmet and we're supposed to get you off the hook.
Unbelievable.
It's such a scam.
Unbelievable.
There are inner city schools that don't have computers.
But this guy has...
Xena warrior princess swords TurboTax.
Plot twist is my favorite thing ever.
TurboTax, keep bringing up Xena warrior princess.
You've brought her up so many times.
She was brought to my.
Lucy Lawless was brought to my house once at a party by someone on staff who brought Lucy Lawless.
And I was like, what is Lucy Lawless doing here?
I love her.
She was great.
Frank Smiley brought her to my apartment.
And he was like, look, I brought Lucy Lawless.
And I'm like, I don't know her.
Well, you'd know it now.
Anyway, that got you off the hook.
My Lucy Lava story.
Okay.
Good Lord.
My guest today. starred in such movies as Selma, Lincoln, and The Butler.
Now you can see him in the new film, Newborn.
This man is a delight.
He's a massive talent and a real joy.
And I'm so happy he's back on the podcast.
David Oyelowo, welcome.
Every time I think of you, it elicits good thoughts.
Oh, that's so nice of you.
It's true.
I can return that favor because not long ago our Booker, Paula Davis, brought up your name and said that you might be coming back.
And I immediately said, I love that guy.
Wow.
You are so funny and we just had a joyous time in our last interview, so I was so happy you could come back.
Yes.
Really thrilled to have you.
Thank you.
Thanks for having me again.
And you're in a good mood.
You came in.
I am.
I asked you about your family.
You said everything's going well.
Yes, I told you that my eldest son proposed to his girlfriend last night.
Last night?
Last night.
And I just watched a video of it.
Yeah.
Which then I reposted.
Yeah, I got excited.
Damn it.
Yeah, and guess what?
I put ads on it.
You monetized it?
I monetized it.
And I'm making a lot of money right now.
I'm just impressed you had a repost.
No, it was a really beautiful moment.
And you must be overjoyed.
I can't even begin to tell you.
It just brought back so many memories because I proposed to his mom when she was 19 and I was 21.
So we were babies.
They're 23 and 24.
My son's 24.
And it just brought back all the memories of proposing to my wife and watching this video.
I was on a plane from New York last night and my wife sent me a text which came through as an iMessage.
And then she sent the video and it wouldn't download.
Oh, my God.
And I couldn't get on the Wi-Fi.
And it was just... It was interminable.
Just saying, downloading, downloading, downloading, downloading.
You know, just to not be able to... And then it finally came through.
And I just...
And you know, there's something about the oxygen on planes that makes you more emotional.
And so like watching, I just, the feels were just roiling.
So I am over the moon.
Well, congratulations to everybody.
I can't wait to go to the wedding.
So presumptuous.
Presumptuous.
He posts the video, then invites himself to the wedding.
Oh my goodness.
Well, I'm sorry.
I'm just thrilled to be there and to get to sing a song.
My dream.
Now, you jest about this.
Yes, I do.
Yes, I do.
Well, I only say that because my mom, God rest her soul for all of my childhood threatened to sing at my wedding.
Now, the reason why you may sense a bit of trauma as I start telling this story is my mother was also tone deaf.
Yeah.
And she would insist.
Also tone deaf.
Oh.
Wow.
We didn't want to tell you, so we had him come to tell you.
Who's the other person in this story who's tone deaf you?
Um no no no no no no um, and she would.
She would take to uh, uh singing when i was watching my cartoons, which is incredible.
When i tell you so, jesus loves me.
That's is the soundtrack of my childhood.
And you're just trying to enjoy your cartoons.
Literally.
Like, mommy, I can't hear David Banner.
I can't hear the Incredible Hulk.
And she was rebuking the name of Jesus.
Are you telling me I cannot sing?
So that's the backdrop to her saying, one day I'm going to sing at your wedding.
And so we had managed, because she wanted to sing during the ceremony the wedding ceremony and we're like, absolutely no way, do not let a mic anywhere near her.
It got to...
The speeches.
And just picture it.
There's a high table.
My dad finishes making his speech, is passing the mic to my best man and all of a sudden, Oh my God.
Everybody!
I'm going to sing a song because I like to sing.
Not because it's my wedding.
Not in like, just because I like to sing.
You like to sing.
Life's journey beginning when you are At the end of every verse.
Everyone goes.
That's just screaming.
Five verses.
Five verses.
She gets a standing ovation.
Yes.
Of course.
Because of the relief.
Yes.
That had stopped.
But her interpretation, you see, if I made an album, it would sell like hot cake.
Well, see, this is perfect.
You need, you need to go full circle and you need to have that moment for your son and his bride to be.
And I can do that for you.
Wow.
I can do that for you.
It's just, I'm going to put it out there.
Thank you.
And then you're going to let it drop.
And yes, I never mentioned it again.
You're gonna start getting calls from your publicist.
Conan keeps, what?
Conan wants to know when?
He wants to bring his tuba?
He's the tuba.
Since he posted that video, he just will not stop calling.
Well, that's really, you know, I don't know if you have this, but you went through this.
You got married.
You said when you were 21, 22, 22.
And I always have this all the time where I think.
I'll have done something when I was 22, but now that I have children that age and approaching that age, I always think they're too young to be doing any of the things that I was doing at that age.
Absolutely.
They can't be walking down the street by themselves.
They're too young.
What do you mean you went to an ATM and got some money?
That's something an adult does.
And it's this strange.
We all do it.
You're going to do it with your kids where your kids are, you know, your kids are four now.
They're four.
But you're going to see that when they're 19, the idea of them doing anything that you did at 19 is going to be just insane.
Well, even now, them having a complete thought and I'm blown away.
Like, just finishing a whole sentence.
I'm like, when did this happen?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, it is the joy about being a parent, but it is also terrifying.
I mean, like, Jess was literally 19 when we got engaged.
My daughter, my youngest, is 14.
The idea...
That in five years, I mean, it's a ridiculous thought.
But my dad didn't get married till he was 40, didn't have me till he was 42.
And he was my hero.
So I just thought that's what I will do.
And then I met this woman who I just couldn't picture any future days without her in it.
And it just happened early.
And I remember going to my dad and saying, this is the woman I want to marry.
And he was just like, absolutely not.
It is way too early.
It is irrational.
And I remember saying to him, well...
You're invited to the wedding if you want to come.
If not, I'm doing this.
And that was my position on it.
And he had to kind of find his way to the reality of that.
And two biggest decisions of my life were in defiance of my dad, who I married, and the profession I went into.
Oh, he was not a fan of you becoming an actor.
No, no.
He said, why do you want to go and be a jester?
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah.
Which is what you do for a living.
Oh, Fern!
No, I...
And accurate.
I gave myself a layup.
That was terrible.
Why did I do that?
You're so nice.
I started this by saying I feel conanified.
I see myself as a visionary and I see myself as a healer.
I speak.
It looks like I'm a jester or that I'm clowning about, but really I'm holding a mirror up to society and healing it through my craft.
Craft.
I tried it.
I tried it.
Your last name is so spectacular.
What does it mean?
Is there a translation?
Does it have a meaning?
Yes.
Oyelowo.
Oyelowo.
So Oyelowo is the Anglicized way of saying it.
In Yoruba, it's Oyelowo.
And don't try.
I don't want you to hurt yourself.
Don't hurt yourself.
But it means a king deserves respect.
Wow.
Is what it means, yeah.
That is so, to have a last name that really means something, great.
Does your name mean anything, Movsesian?
I-A-N at the end of Armenian names means son of, so it's just son of Moses.
Yeah.
Mine's just a verb.
Yeah.
Hopping.
Hopping.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
I almost hired Jack Skipping, but I went with David Hopping.
I think Conan is wide face.
I don't know.
I looked it up once and I wasn't happy.
Broad of forehead.
What is the O?
The O, Brian?
I've heard people claim that it means you're related to kings, but then you walk around Ireland and you go no.
The internet says little wolf or little hound is what Conan means.
Right.
Oh, okay.
That's cute.
I've never heard that before, so I think someone just put that in.
It's also, it's little wolf and little hound.
So your father, is this correct?
Your father had tribal markings?
Yes.
And what was it?
Yoruba is the tribe?
Yes.
The Yoruba tribe.
So yeah, he had four tribal marks on both cheeks and he had the word ballet written on his uh, stomach with and this was done with blades when you were a kid, i know yeah, really intense um, and but i grew up with my dad telling me that the reason he had these four slashes on his cheeks was because he had fought a tiger, And I completely bought it.
And it was incredibly useful at school.
Every time my dad came to pick me up, because anyone who was messing with me I was like.
You see that on my dad's face.
Tiger.
Do you want that man mad at you?
Exactly.
That's incredible.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But we then moved to Nigeria and I got picked up at the airport by all of my uncles.
And literally I was like, Did everyone fight tigers?
What is going on?
That tiger got around.
It just went rampant on my family, this tiger.
I jumped in to save your dad, and I jumped in to save him, and I jumped in to save him.
So you were, where were you born?
You were born in?
I was born in Oxford, England.
And I was there till the age of two.
So I don't really remember it.
Then we moved to London and I was there till the age of six.
And then we moved to Lagos, Nigeria.
And I was there till 13 before we moved back to London.
I've been to Oxford twice and I just went for the second time um, i want to say about five, six months ago, and it is.
It is hard not to feel erudite when you're walking around in that environment.
Yeah, and people have asked me what it's like and i say it is the closest thing to hogwarts on earth that i have encountered.
Yeah, I've never seen um, anything like that.
And it's just got so much history.
I know Cambridge is the same thing.
You walk around these places that have been around for 800 years.
I don't know how many you know and uh, you think about all the insane talent that walked those streets.
I know.
I think that's why my dad really wanted to be there, just to be around it, which is why I ended up being born there.
And he decided he was going to go into the medical profession Until, as he tells it, he realized he had an apoplectic fear of blood.
And so you know, I can't remember if it was a day that they were supposed to be dissecting a cadaver or something like that.
And yeah, he...
That's not unlike my dad, who went to medical school and then, I think late in medical school, was around you know patients and blood and said I want to be in a laboratory.
And he did great work there, but I think he wasn't up for that part.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah no, I mean to find the thing it is that you truly love and that it loves you.
Back is, I think, Elysium.
My dad took a while to sort of.
I don't know that he ever actually found the thing that he really He would try a lot of different things.
Well, he tried the medical profession, decided he didn't like blood, decided he wanted to be an architect.
Couldn't really draw.
They're gonna say, but he hated houses.
Fear of houses.
So yeah, I mean, you know, the happiest he became ultimately was he and my mom ran a sort of minicab firm in London.
So that, yeah, just driving people around was the thing he sort of became happy with.
Also, I've always thought if I needed to pick up a second job, I wouldn't mind being an Uber driver, because I love talking to people so much.
And I love trying to find out what's going on in their lives.
Yes.
And filming them when they don't know I'm filming them.
What?
We'll get into that part later.
That took a ton.
But you know, what's funny is your career.
Your start as an actor was, as all the best things are, a little bit accidental, because you said there was a.
I've heard that there was a or read that there was a subway strike happening and you think that this contributed to you becoming an actor.
And I'm curious, how does that happen?
Well, because I was at this youth theater group that I'd only attended because I fancy this girl who you know.
I don't know that she knew it.
And I just kept on going for her.
But I was very shy.
And we were rehearsing a play.
And I would always just sit, you know, hoping I would maybe be in the chorus or something, so that I could keep seeing this girl.
And then one day there was a tube strike, like a subway strike.
And the three guys who were being touted to play the lead were all stuck on trains.
And so the director said to me, David, just read in while we wait for the guys to arrive.
For the real actors actors to come literally and I very much thought of them as that and I had the page and I guess I just did it the way I thought it should be done and I finished this speech and the room just went completely silent.
And I thought, oh, it was that bad.
It was that bad that these people are speechless with how bad it was.
And then three days later, I was cast in the lead of this play.
And although I didn't understand the significance of it at the time, this youth theater was at the National Theater, like the Royal National Theater of Great Britain on the South Bank in London.
And so the very first thing I did was playing the lead on what was then the Cottesloe stage.
It's called the Dorfman Theater now. at the National Theater.
And yeah, it literally happened because that day those guys didn't turn up.
Wow.
If I had been one of those guys, I would have suspected that you messed with the tube.
I did.
I did mess with the tube.
I absolutely did.
That's how my mind works.
You know, you're down there.
You're like switching the tracks.
Yeah, that was me.
That was me.
I knew a guy.
You know, I...
I've always noticed that it's not a rule, but it happens about 95 of the time that people from the United Kingdom actors are also sort of charming storytellers.
And I have not found that to be true in other places.
Right, a terrific actor, but it's almost like it's something in the water or it's something that's prized and respected, that in Britain Scotland, Wales whatever you have to be or Ireland as well.
You must be a good actor, but you must also be a raconteur.
And it's almost like that is taught when I know it's not.
But I think it's very much the rule.
It actually is taught because you're around these actors There is a tradition of it, actually.
And as a young actor, what you're looking for is to sit at the feet of a Judi Dench or as I did with Judi Dench or Alan Bates or Ralph Fiennes or Kenneth Branagh.
You know, these are people I literally had the opportunity to work with.
Like I did a film called As You Like It with Kenneth Branagh.
I did a show with Judi Dench.
I did a show with Alan Bates.
I worked with actors who were awe-inspiring when you were on stage with them.
They had mastered the craft.
And what I mean by that is is when you get on the Royal Shakespeare Theatre stage in front of I think that stage is about 100 well, 1500 people, or on the Olivier, which I think is maybe 1200 people.
When you see someone be nervous in the wings, someone who you watched in the rehearsal room playing with language like Shakespeare that is four to five times our vocabulary and finding their way to the truth of it, finding their way to the meaning of it and finding different interpretation of it.
Time and time again, and then watching them nervous in the wings before they go on and become supernatural on that stage.
When you're around that enough, it gets better.
And then when you're with them after the fact and they're talking about when they were on stage with Gielgud or Olivier because there is something and this is more in the British tradition it is lauded, it is something that is celebrated.
And it is a tradition that is very much outside of financial remuneration.
The gift is the doing of it.
And I think that in and of itself creates this aura of camaraderie and being part of a tradition that has been ongoing.
And so there is something and I sound so pretentious saying this, but there is something celestial about I remember being
21 22, being in a rehearsal room with a guy who had been on stage with Olivier and just going okay, just soak it all in.
And what I mean is it gets on you.
And what then happens is, as you climb the ranks of being a spare carrier, playing decretas like I did in Anthony and Cleopatra with my seven lines.
And then within about three years, I was playing Henry VI in that same theater.
So you go from Holt, who goes there, to giving these incredible soliloquies.
Speeches that you will never conquer.
Every night is basically an exercise in humility because it will kick your butt every night.
It's why that playwright, especially Shakespeare, has lasted over 400 years.
He tapped into humanity in a way that I don't think any writer has done before and ever will.
And so it's the Everest for actors.
And so when you have that and then you combine it with an audience, And what I mean by celestial is that there is this vibration where they start telling you if and you must have this as a comedian they start telling you if you're telling the truth.
And the moment there is fracture in that, you feel it instantaneously.
And if you do that night after night after night after night, it becomes muscle memory.
We've all been around each other since we crawled out of the sea.
And we pick up on this.
You could call it electrical, you could say there's a biochemical reason for it or it's just mystical and you don't want to think about it too much.
But we know when someone's tapped into the truth.
Yes.
It's why I think juries...
They can make mistakes, but overall, they say, let's get a bunch of your peers and have them listen.
And together, they'll have a common intelligence.
You've said it.
It's truth, I think, is the thing.
And it's why anyone's favorite actors have probably at some point been on the stage.
I truly believe that, because you you have had the opportunity to be around the truth enough that that is now, as I say, muscle memory.
That becomes applicable to film work, where everything is artifice.
It's a room like this, with contraptions like this, and you're supposed to be in love with someone you met that morning.
And it is an exercise in artifice.
But if you know what it feels like to tell the truth under those circumstances you're describing, you sort of have more access to it.
I just think.
I mean I'm thinking about the people that you've worked with, not just on the stage in London, but in your film work.
You've worked with giants in the industry.
Right.
You know, you said that you worked with Dame Judi Dench.
I don't believe I've met her.
Someone now will come up with a video of me interviewing her.
I'm serious.
This happens to me all the time where someone will pass and I'll say, a shame I never met them.
And someone will show me seven videos of me talking to them over a 15-year period.
Wow.
Is this what I have to look forward to?
Yeah.
Oh, the minute you go, I'll be like, I would love to meet you.
1998.
All right.
Well, she made no impression.
I've always heard.
I mean she's spectacular, but I've also heard that she's just lovely, that she's just so lovely and funny.
Very, very funny.
But what was so surprising about her is she said, I can't bear to watch myself.
Yeah, she's one of those actors.
You couldn't bear to watch her.
But the thing that was really surprising is she said I learn my lines and I try to forget them so that I am completely fresh and present in the scene.
And I thought how do you trick yourself into like?
And I was in a scene with her and I saw this thing that is happening between you and I right now.
Yeah. whereby you don't know what I'm going to say next.
And it is affecting your brain chemistry in a way whereby it's precipitating.
It's a real hitting the ball back and forth.
Correct, correct.
Yeah, correct.
And she has maintained the discipline of being able to hold it close enough but hold it lightly enough that she's constantly alive.
And I just thought, whoa, that is so brave and why she's so brilliant.
Now, you do hold the distinction of being slapped by Oprah.
Yes.
I think we should talk about that.
My claim to fame, guys.
I mean, as part of a scene, I've been slapped by Oprah just in life.
Just for existing.
No, I tried to cut, it was an eight items or less line.
And I tried to cut in front of her.
That'll do it.
And this was up near Santa Barbara and man, she packs a wallop.
But I had it coming and mad respect.
But what was that like?
Well, you know what?
This was during a film called The Butler.
Yeah, yeah.
And we were doing this scene and it was a scene, and it was a tough scene because Sidney Poitier is literally my hero.
Yeah.
And...
It was a scene where my character was being very, shall we say, uncouth about Sidney Poitier.
And as a result, she quite rightly decides to give me what for.
Now, of course, in the film she's supposed to slap her son.
In the world of cameras, action.
All of that.
Don't actually slap me.
Now, with each take, she got more and more into it.
And she has probably reserves of anger about things in her life that she wants to get out.
I could feel her dragging up things that were helping her tell the truth.
And what was happening is you know?
So initially, you know, I couldn't feel any wind.
As she went by.
And it started like I was like Each time she does this, I could feel she was getting ever closer, each and every time.
And the very last time...
She got the end of my nose.
Oh, okay.
It wasn't a full slap, but it was the moment where I went, I think we got it.
I think we got it, guys.
I'm just going to mention, I don't know if this occurred to you, she has deep pockets.
There's a lot of money there.
So I've heard.
Yeah, and you could say my nose, I don't think I can act again.
I use the tip of my nose a lot.
You know, and then she's living at the Motel 6 and you're living in her house.
This is where you go.
You go straight for the lawsuit.
This is America.
This is America and that's all we do is sue the shit out of each other.
If only I'd met you sooner, damn it.
All the billboards.
You can call Sweet James.
Sweet James.
Yeah, that's the guy.
That is.
Oh, his billboards are everywhere.
Sweet James.
Um, it was funny you mentioned that because we did something.
The lovely Sophie Turner was going to be on our show and I've always had a good time talking with her and she was coming on and I read the notes and they said she might want to try something where she it involves her lightly slapping you.
And I told her just before the show, So this is really on me.
I said, if those things are going to work, you really have to go for it.
So I told her, if it's going to work, you have to really go for it.
You can't kind of half do it.
Right.
So, and I'm not thinking.
So we get to that part of the show and it's on tape.
But I'm standing up and Sophie just lets me have it.
She's a very strong woman.
Yes.
You took a shot of tequila first.
I took a shot of tequila first and then she hit me and you can see I'm just.
I went to a different place for a while.
Yeah.
For a while.
I've traveled through time.
I met many famous people.
And then I came back all in an instant.
Give me some context here.
Was it for a beer?
It was a game.
I think she called it tequila slaps.
Yeah.
But I don't know how it's a game.
Because it just involved me having some tequila and then her punching the shit out of me.
Yeah, you just take a shot of tequila and the person just slaps you.
And that's it.
What a fun game.
She left the bottle.
Not only did I agree to it, I saw it in the notes and I said oh, and if you're going to, if we do get to that, I like to keep it kind of loose out there.
I said, if we do get to that and it starts to happen.
If you do that, it's not going to work.
You have to let me have it.
And God bless her.
Yeah, she did.
She was like, all right.
She went for it.
He told me.
Is this because you wanted to sue her?
Is this why you... What's that?
That was the plan.
Unfortunately, she had to... I wondered why I read she's destitute now.
The uh no it's uh, it was it, it.
It is something to be in that moment where you're hit which doesn't happen.
Were you ever punched at all in as a kid or were you ever in a fight?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I went to boarding school in Nigeria and I remember getting into a few, a few fights.
It is nothing until you experience being punched in the face.
Yeah.
Nothing can prepare the ringing.
Yeah.
The, the, the. flash of white you see.
You know, you're saying, yep, yep, like you've been punched.
Oh, I was, yeah.
I was, yeah, punched really hard in the face.
Oh, really?
It was a mugging.
By Sophie Turner?
It's always Sophie Turner.
What happened?
It was, again, it was Sophie Turner.
And she was robbing me.
It was about two years after she was on the show.
And I had sued her into destitution.
And she said, I want my money back!
She's still carrying tequila.
Yeah, you kind of deserved it.
No, it was, I think I was...
I was 18 and I was walking around the north end of Boston and some kids wanted money and I said, no.
And they said, why not?
And I said, I don't feel like it.
And just as I said, like it, as I hit the T, I saw all the white.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Then they had to rebuild my nose from scratch.
Did you get the blood when you suddenly, your own blood goes down your throat?
Oh, I had the whole thing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think I was like a sprinkler.
It was like you had a Frinkler system.
No, it's getting dark now.
I was fine.
I bear no emotional wounds.
So the guy who's clearly packed with emotional wounds.
But what I do remember is they had to reshape my nose and I had the whole black eyes and I was bandaged up for a while.
And I'd be.
There were bars in the neighborhood where I lived and I'd be walking home from you know, to my house and guys standing in the doorways of bars.
I always thought this was you know, something you just see in movies.
But they to a one would all step out and go how's the other guy look?
Wow.
And I'd say, the other guy looks just fine.
What?
Not a scratch.
No, he looks, he's got the dewiest skin.
He's, you know, just, I mean, he looks better than he did before.
Well, I want to congratulate you because I watched your film, Newborn, and I very much enjoyed it.
And it was not what I expected, which is rare.
Usually when I watch a movie, I think, oh, I can see where this is going.
And I was... completely surprised by how this unfolded.
It's a very powerful movie.
And you, am I right, this movie was made, was it made a while ago?
When was the movie made?
Yeah, yeah.
It was made a little while ago, and it was one of those... The alchemy of making movies, man.
We made it with a company that went into insolvency and so we had to get the film back, and all that.
And then there was the writer's strike and all this stuff before we're now getting the movie out.
But...
Weirdly, I've had so many instances like this.
Selma took seven years to get made.
Is that true?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
From when I first auditioned for it to when it actually got made.
And it's amazing, too, when you see the finished product, you think, well, this was obvious.
Yes.
And it wasn't.
I mean when you walk out of the theater after seeing Selma, if someone said to you well, that took seven years from beginning to, you'd think well no, this just looks like a slam dunk.
Right, exactly.
And it was the opposite.
I mean, I watched five directors come and go before it ended up being Ava DuVernay.
I watched that film go from...
Lyndon Johnson being the central character to it, finally being Dr King, as it always should have been.
And to your point.
You know I truly believe these things because I'm a big believer in the power of storytelling.
And, I do think, often the ones that really go on to be impactful.
They sometimes take time to come to fruition in the right way.
And what happened with Newborn is that through the course of this protracted journey to the, now that we're in, we got to go back and do reshoots and really analyze what it is we wanted to do with the film.
Because the film is about my character, Chris Newborn, who endures seven years of solitary confinement and is dealing with the detrimental effects of that mentally and is trying to reconnect with his family after coming out with his wife and his son.
And that's very delicate, you know, because I talked to a few people who had dealt with that reality, specifically a guy called Richard Rosario who had been wrongfully incarcerated for 20 years, seven of which were in solitary confinement.
And the effects of it.
I mean after 13 days.
Studies have shown you're never the same again because it's 23 hours a day in a nine by six cell with fluorescent lights on all the time.
And what that does to the mind, the psyche, the soul.
Is is it's torture.
What is the possible reason that lights would have to be on all the time other than to torture you?
There's no rehabilitative effect to having lights on all the time.
It is the opposite of rehabilitation.
And that's the point.
It is purely punitive.
And so it's the height of punishment.
Anything and everything to make your life uncomfortable is what solitary confinement is.
And you say it perfectly there.
It is the opposite of rehabilitation, which supposedly is what we're supposed to be doing with prisons.
But what people don't know is that 80000 people men, women and children are in solitary confinement today in America.
And so, in order to tell this story in a way that wasn't just dark and challenging and traumatic, we chose to see what life was like for this man post the incarceration and how he goes on a journey to trying to reconnect with his family while dealing with this trauma.
So it's a psychological thriller, but...
You know, that's wrapped around a love story.
You know, this guy trying to get back to his wife, trying to get back to his son.
I thought of this analogy, which is it was proven long ago that if I think they found this out at the end of World War II, when soldiers were liberating some of the concentration camps that the first instinct is to give all these people, who are malnourished, tons of food which can kill them, because their bodies have been living with almost no food for years at a time.
And you need to start very slowly and then slowly raise the calorie count.
This movie, to me, did a very good job of showing me that if someone's been in solitary confinement for seven years and then they're out and they're free and they're allowed to be out in the world and walking down the street and being outside, it's overload.
It's absolute sensory overload and traumatic.
And so things that we think of as This would be lovely.
I'd love to be with my wife and my son at a cabin in the woods, wandering around this beautiful countryside.
What a lovely time.
That's horrifying.
Yeah.
And that came across really thoroughly in the movie.
And I thought, this is a story I haven't seen before.
Right.
Where someone's in an environment that I would love-
And to them, it's a nightmare.
Well, so perfectly put there Conan, because it's also about the things we take for granted and how desperately, as human beings, we need connection.
Like human beings are designed for connection.
And the ultimate way you dehumanize someone is to extricate them from human connection.
I mean, we all, to a certain extent, felt that during the pandemic.
And that was one of the most debilitating things is this feeling of a lack of connection to other people.
But, you know, that's exactly it.
Him trying to reconnect, having been denied connection for so long, with the very people that essentially, their existence is what kept him going.
So he wants nothing more than to reconnect with his wife.
His son has become non-verbal because of some of the trauma he sees in his mother due to what has happened to his father.
So all of that is happening And you can't tell what's in his mind and what's perceived and what is real.
And that's where the psychological thriller aspect comes in.
But what we also hoped to do is to tap into how we can all relate to feelings of isolation, whether it's loneliness, whether it's in your own head, whether it's childhood trauma, whatever that may be.
And what is the path to healing for that?
I believe it's love.
And Richard Rosario.
The extraordinary thing his wife stuck by him for the 20 years he was incarcerated.
And her name is Minerva.
And it's extraordinary to see him now, 10 years after he's been released, still dealing with a lot of what he dealt with.
But it is extraordinary to see how love, in relation to that thing you talk about of how you slowly bring someone back as opposed to just giving them a full meal has sort of got this guy to a place where you know he can now stand up in front of people and talk about his experience.
You know, I was watching the film and your performance is extraordinary, as your performances always are.
And then I was thinking about your, quote, accident getting into acting.
You go to the acting class because you have a crush on this girl and you just want to tag along.
And I look at, I think, wait, something isn't right here because someone who can act at that level must know when they're a kid, they have this inside of them.
That could not have been a complete surprise to you.
It was.
Really?
It was.
And this is where gosh, especially as an artist, if there is someone who sees in you what you haven't seen in yourself yet.
That is just the greatest blessing.
And often Oprah talks about this.
I've heard a lot of artists, whether they be actors or musicians that music teacher or that drama teacher or that literature professor or teacher that goes.
Hold on you.
Yeah, yeah. there's something going on here.
And I had that in a teacher called Jill Foster, who you know.
I continued to do drama but it was baked into me by my parents that That's not a proper job.
That's just not what this is going to be.
And I idolized my father, and so therefore it wasn't going to be that.
But this teacher who I remember her accosting me outside of a tube station when I was all set to go and do a law degree and saying David, I wouldn't say this to any of my other students.
I think you could do this. acting professionally.
And, and I, and I, and I didn't even know what that entailed.
And she went, well, have you considered drama school?
I said, I don't know what that is.
And she introduced me to what drama schools are and she helped me with my auditions.
And that's how I ended up.
Wow.
Getting a scholarship to go to Lambda.
And you know the full circle of this because within the last month I went to see my son at the drama school.
I went to playing in an adaptation of the play that I met my wife doing.
That's crazy.
And it made me think all the way back to Jill Foster, that what she gave to me by way of advocacy is now having a generational impact.
Not just for actors I will never meet, my own son.
And when I went to Lambda, I was the only Black student of 300 students at that drama school.
I went to see my son in his play and I graduated 27 years ago and I now go and talk at Lambda every now and again.
And a decent portion of the school is people of color from all walks of life, from all over the world.
There's been some really great work done.
And when I say to those students, when I say to my own son, I cannot believe what I'm seeing in relation to what my experience was.
They have no real connection to what I'm saying.
And I find myself thinking, that's exactly what you want.
You want them to not be able to understand what it would feel like to be the only.
I want you to take this level of of diversity for granted.
And that is the driver for me with storytelling, you know, in terms of the characters I play.
I'm always, to a certain degree, taking roles as a kind of a gift to my 12 year old self in terms of the things that I didn't see.
On screen.
Sidney Poitier was my hero because he was like looking at a Martian in relation to what I saw on British television, in relation to what was possible growing up on a council estate in Islington and to be in a world now where that is not the experience of my kids, where they're going oh, I have no one to aspire to in terms of someone who looks like me.
That is a big, big driver for why I do what I do.
Yeah, it's really incredible.
There's an amazing book.
I don't know if you've come across it ever, but it's called Pictures at a Revolution.
And it's about it's a snapshot of the movie industry in, I think 1967, when it's all changing.
But there's a big part of it that's about Sidney Poitier and how he came along and what a pivotal figure he was.
And I think in 67, he's in two big movies.
He's in Heat of the Night, where he slaps a white man, which is still...
Still, I get chills every time I see that scene.
He slapped and he slaps the man instantly back and it took people's breath away in the theater and it still has that power.
Absolutely.
Like you can see in some frames of a film, the world changed.
Absolutely.
And I think he's also in Guess Who's Coming to Dinner that year.
So those are the two films he does in that one year.
And yeah.
But then you think about okay, he fought those battles and then Denzel Washington had his battles to fight that were different.
And it just keeps getting passed on and on and on.
And you want your son to grow up thinking, what's the problem?
Yes.
What's the big deal?
Absolutely.
That's the gift.
Absolutely.
It's the gift.
And what's great about that story?
You tell anyone who knows Sidney Poitier's body of work always thinks he won the Oscar for In the Heat of the Night because of the impact of that slap and that role and how groundbreaking it was.
And he wasn't even nominated for that.
Neither was he nominated for Guess Who's Coming to Dinner.
He won for Lilies of the Field.
Earlier.
Earlier, earlier. and for a role where he was being nice to white nuns.
And that was what was deemed permissible for him back then.
It was deeply controversial to.
In one year, you're going to slap a white man and then fall in love with a white woman on our screens, with us having given you an Oscar.
Oh, no.
Yeah.
Oh, no.
And, you know, this is the thing about I've heard it said it's not about any given role.
It's about a body of work.
And that body of work is the thing that someone like me now takes for granted.
I look at Sidney Poitier and I go, wow.
But when you read about him, I met him and it was just...
Oh, my gosh.
I can barely believe it actually happened.
And he.
I remember Oprah introducing me to him and she said oh yeah, David's going to play Martin Luther King.
And his eyes lit up.
And I just thought, OK, just be present.
Just be present.
Just soak it up.
Soak it up.
This is really happening.
Don't say anything stupid.
Just, you know, you were saying that out loud.
I was.
I was.
I was just like that.
What's wrong with this idiot?
Get him out of my presence.
But as you say, that's what you want.
Look, I think, at its height storytelling, and this is what I tried to do with Newborn.
That was an incredibly uncomfortable role to play.
My dad passed away on the first day of filming.
Um, he was dealing with colon cancer and you know, I, I, I had considered not taking the role.
I said to him, look, daddy, I, I, I, I just can't leave you.
We were, we were shooting in Canada.
And he was like, no, you must go.
You must go.
This is what you're here.
This is what you're on this earth to do.
You must go.
And this is from my dad who originally was so against it, against what I wanted to do as a vocation, as a profession to do.
That was his last gesture.
I mean, what a gift that your dad got to see it all happen.
And as much as we'd still like these people to be here...
I always think about the fact that, well, my parents got to see plenty.
They got to see plenty and they got to know that it wouldn't have happened if it weren't for them.
So that's a gift that just keeps on giving.
It's huge.
It's the only reason I went and I did it.
But I watch Newborn now and I can see.
I can see I'm now removed from it because I've gone through my or I'm in the middle of my process of healing from the loss of my dad.
But I can see the price.
You know I still carry guilt about it.
You know, going off and doing this movie even though I felt very passionate about doing it.
My dad insisted I go and do it.
But, you know, at its height, I do think these stories cost. you know to hold up a mirror to humanity especially when it's humanity's going through these very challenging things but it's it's just it's the greatest thing in in the world to to sort of in service of humanity kind of try and show us who we are.
Well, I always go back to, it's a crazy world.
It's always been a crazy world.
And there are bad things happening and bad things have always been happening.
And everyone just has to try and be uh, do their work well and um, and be a good citizen, whatever that may be a good person.
Um, and so, because sometimes that's all you can do.
Everything is so big.
But I think this is a tragic story because I think you would have made an amazing lawyer.
We have a lot.
David, we have many good actors.
But to find a really good lawyer is hard, right?
He could have been the next Sweet James.
You could have been Sweet James.
Sweet James and his new protege, David.
Oh, darn it.
All those billboards I could have been on.
You could have been on so many billboards, but whatever.
Keep fucking around with acting.
Well, the movie is newborn.
I I loved it.
And I am just enthralled by you.
You're such an amazing person to talk to.
And it's like a tonic when you come by.
I always.
I always feel good after you've been here, because you're delightfully funny and insightful and just lovely across the board.
So I will see you at the wedding.
You know what this funny thing is?
He thinks I'm kidding.
I know.
It's going to be like The Graduate where this ceremony is happening.
Bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing.
Bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing.
Oh, dear.
Can't wait to do it.
All right.
Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
This is great.
Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend, with Conan O'Brien, Sonam Ovsessian, and Matt Gorley.
Produced by me, Matt Gorley.
Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and Nick Liao.
Theme song by The White Stripes.
Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino.
Take it away, Jimmy.
Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair.
And our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples.
Engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns.
Additional production support by Mars Melnick.
Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Brit Kahn.
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