You're listening to Roundtable, I'm Yeo Hong -ling, joined by Steve and Yoo Shen.
Coming up, Samsih food is the gateway to culture and culinary tourism is booming, with people spending over $1 trillion this year alone.
But not every traveler wants to dive head first into unfamiliar dishes.
Why is that? And is there anything wrong with sticking to comfort food on your next trip?
Stay tuned as we explore the psychology behind travel -eating habits.
And Roundtable invites you to appreciate the surprising art of healthy conflict.
Why fighting well is a relationship skill you can't afford to skip.
But first, picture this.
You're in Thailand, surrounded by exciting smells of street food.
Pet ties sizzles in one pan while a vendor nearby grills, some toxic exotic meats that you want to try.
But while you're tempted by all these choices, your travel pal walks past all of it and straight to a McDonald's.
Is that like a total foodie fail or is there more to this travel behavior than meets the eye?
Before diving into that question, I want to ask you this first.
What is the last travel specialty, travel food that you've tried and you've enjoyed quite so much, that you want to introduce?
New York City Italian food.
It was so good. I'm thinking back to my previous vacations.
Of course, I've lived in China for a short time and I could sit here for an hour and tell you about all of the delicious foods I tried.
But the last time we took a trip, authentic Italian family restaurant.
Oh yeah, there's a lot of great Italian food in New York City.
And there's a lot of great food from all over the world in New York City.
But yeah, we stumbled upon this authentic family style Italian restaurant and it was delicious.
And the serving sizes were massive.
One plate was for two people, but we didn't realize that.
So we thought one plate was for one person and we ordered way too much food and we just stuffed our bellies.
If you ever go to New York, make sure you get some Italian food.
This looks awesome.
My experience is more of a domestic one and I believe Honglin, you can echo that on some scales too.
Because it recalls on my trip to Fujian Province in East China's coastal areas in Fujiu, where there's this kind of wonton, we call it wonton, but the localers call it zhoyen I believe.
Where the filling, it's like a dumpling, but the filling and the wrapper are both made out of meat.
Meat. Meat wrapped with meat.
I love it. Meat on meat.
It's unbelievable. I'm intrigued.
Tell me more. I mean, the wrapper almost seems transparent.
So you can imagine maybe there's more of a fat part of the meat that's making the wrapper.
But I was just looking at the bowl of rouyen and I was astonished because it looks so much similar to wonton, as we commonly have in the northern side of China.
But it tastes different and it tastes of course meaty and the wrapper doesn't taste like meat.
So it's something local that's so different.
I only got to try it once in the airport because I didn't have time to have like a bigger feast of it during my business trip there, but it's quite an exquisite experience to try that.
You know what you can do with the wrap?
We already know the wrap is made of meat, but it can be a little bit resilient so that it can be the wrap, wrapping the meat inside of it.
And you can actually use the wrap as a type of noodle.
So you buy the ingredients and eat it like eating noodle, but they're meat.
So it's really delicious.
What about you? For me, the experience was in Sichuan Province in the city of Chengdu.
And there was actually a Sichuan Cuisine Museum in Chengdu.
It's a museum. It showcases a lot of different pictures, different samples of Sichuan cuisine.
Very hot. They even tell you how to make Pi Xian Dou Bar, which is the soul of Sichuan cuisine.
It's a kind of soy sauce with beans in it.
It has a very special taste and it can give you the Sichuan cuisine feeling.
It's definitely hot and spicy, but in a very special Sichuan style.
My mouth is watering already.
And the thing is, in that museum, you get to actually taste all types of different Sichuan cuisines.
So little tiny little bowl of the food sample.
And I'm telling you, just eating one bite over each bowl would make you feel like you're too full.
You cannot even move.
Yes. So actually, people would associate local specialty food with the travel quite so much.
And some people would even design and plan their trip based on the kind of food they want to try.
Actually, according to its latest report, and it is the 2024 China Gastronomy Tourism Development Report, it says that 93 percent of respondents of this survey feel experiencing local food as a major factor in their travels.
Enjoying exotic dishes and exploring culinary culture through tourism has become an essential option for these travelers.
And the Academy survey also found that over 21 percent of tourists consider food tourism a deep cultural experience.
And 95 percent expressed the willingness to learn more about the culinary culture.
And 26 percent wanted to learn how to cook the local food.
So food, tourism, local culture, something really closely intertwined with each other.
It's a massive industry.
You mentioned it before, the name of it, culinary tourism.
Globally, it's going to be worth a trillion dollars plus in 2024, and it's going to continue to grow as well at a whopping growth rate of 17 .1 percent over the next 10 years.
These are numbers we wouldn't have seen during the pandemic.
It's a sign that everybody's traveling again.
And when traveling, everybody's eating again, of course, as well.
But if we look inside those numbers to get a little bit more insight, I found something quite interesting.
And we'll see what we can take away from this.
Now, this survey, we have to remember that this was done in the United States and it was done with a relatively small number of people in the hundreds.
So take these results with a grain of salt.
But I found them interesting nonetheless.
They asked people, when you go on vacation, what is one of the reasons that you choose the spot that you choose?
And 34 percent of tourists asked in 2022 said that they chose destinations inspired by the food that they like.
They weren't traveling because of things that they could see there, like natural beauties like an ocean or a beach or a mountain or what have you.
They were going there because they knew that that destination had food that they enjoyed.
Makes a lot of sense to me.
Does it really? So you've traveled to a spot specifically for the food and whatever else you'll find out when you get there?
Yes, I totally understand that because I have something I call a food brain.
It's actually a little bit associated with emotional eating.
That is just the kind of feeling that food is a major source of happiness for me.
When I'm sad, I go to a big meal so I feel better.
When I'm happy, I grab my friend and go to a big meal to celebrate.
So food is very important to me and it is a top priority.
OK, I'm not advocating this, but because it results to problems sometimes for those who have obesity, who want to lose weight, they need to cure their emotional eating problem.
But I'm just saying I believe there are people out there like me that feel food as something very important, which leads to the kind of situation Steve has just described.
That is to use food as a good reason to pick their travel destination.
Right. You know what this reminds me of?
Because when I was studying abroad outside of China, among us international students, especially if we are grouped together as Chinese students, there's one thing we always introduce to other students from other countries that we have a Chinese stomach.
Oh, yeah, we say that, too.
Yeah, chongguo wei.
So it's something that we use to describe that we are born in such a system that our stomach cannot digest.
That's not really the correct word, but it refers to a feeling that we rely strongly on foods that's from home.
I feel like it's a little bit different subject because traveling and experiencing local food versus living in a different country and having to depend on local food are two separate subjects.
Yeah, I think that's fair to say.
But when traveling, not everyone wants to enjoy the local cuisine or try the local cuisine.
It's called well, if it's serious, there's a there's a name for it.
It's called neophobia.
Neophobia is the fear of trying new dishes, trying new dishes specifically.
And when it's really extreme, it can lead to malnutrition or limited social functioning or psychological difficulties.
That's in its extreme.
But minor causes, minor cases can cause you to lose your sense of food adventure when you're traveling on vacation.
Now, you might say, well, that's a tragedy.
That's a terrible thing.
When you're going on vacation, you should be wanting to try the local cuisines, right?
But not necessarily, according to industry experts and scientists.
This is where it gets a little sciencey.
They say that the decision to try or to not try unfamiliar local dishes when traveling is already programmed inside you.
They did a study. I got this from CNN in 2019.
It was carried out by professors in the U .S.
that found that cultural familiarity, motivational factors and personality traits, all of those things together will influence tourists' food decisions more than cost and more than convenience.
Again, it's a small study, but the results are still there for us to consider.
I was actually curious about this because you talked about being in an unfamiliar area, surrounded by exotic culture and finding it difficult to try local food.
So what if this person travels to a food court or a food festival in their own city?
They can travel in the fair and can try different things, but the cultural, the overall environment background is still their own.
And they do not have to experience the culture shock in a sense, but can.
You're absolutely right.
Because the part of the problem, if we call it a problem, is when you're traveling in a new area, it's the unfamiliarity of being there.
Judson Brewer is the name of a neuroscientist.
He's also a behavioral professor at Brown University.
He wrote a book, too, on eating behaviors called Hunger Habit.
And he says travel is a trade -off between, one, the excitement of discovering new things, and two, going with what we know.
So, going to McDonald's, as opposed to trying some Pad Thai, going back to your Thailand example.
He said, in these situations, it's our orbital frontal cortex, which is in charge of our decision -making process.
And it tries to assess which option is more rewarding for, get this, survival.
Now, what's the connection between trying new foods on vacation and survival?
It doesn't seem to make sense, right?
Think back to our hunter -gatherer times.
When hunters and gatherers went out to get food for themselves or for their families, sometimes they would encounter food that they knew, and sometimes they would encounter food that they had never seen before.
And hunter -gatherers needed to make a decision in that moment for, literally, survival.
Do I try this not knowing whether it's going to be poisonous, whether it's going to hurt me, or do I just go and kill that small bunny or something like that?
Remember, we're talking hunter -gatherer times.
So, that's the science, and that still exists.
That mentality still exists in our brains today, according to Judson Brewer.
That's very interesting.
And that reminds me of the example we talked a bit earlier in the discussion about the Chinese example that over 90 % of people believe that they wanted to try local food.
I think one of the reasons behind that is because, here in China, you get to enjoy food from other provinces and other places in your local city already.
These new, so -called new food are not that new.
They're not that exotic.
I'm talking about eating Sichuan cuisine in Chengdu in the city, yet I have tried it so many times before going to Chengdu.
And that kind of local food tourism actually is kind of...
I feel like it has already avoided the problem or solved the problem because of the situation here in the Chinese society.
I think it makes perfect sense, especially in the traveling scenario, because also, according to this Brewer doctor, he says that our planning brain might decide that if it's safe for us to stick with the food that we know or to avoid potential physical discomfort as well.
Yes, exactly. So that's related to the survival aspect.
Of course, when we're traveling in Thailand or Europe or wherever, we're not really concerned if I try this unfamiliar dish.
Am I going to die? No, that's not the same level of concern.
But it is the same in the sense of, if I try this new dish, am I going to be uncomfortable with it?
Am I not going to enjoy it?
I don't know what this is.
By looking at it, I can't identify some of the ingredients in the dish.
So that mentality still exists.
As I mentioned before, it still exists today.
Is it for survival?
No, but it is for our own personal comfort.
Well, I think for the business insiders, if you are in the food tourism industry and you want to make sure everyone to enjoy the food you provide, maybe include yourself into a certain kind of food festival.
So that other options are also there, providing the consumers with a sense of familiarity.
And also, you can try to start a food festival in your own city.
That might help. I suppose so.
Yes, and for the tourists.
Well, whether you're the kind of traveler who dives into the local food scene or the one who orders a cheeseburger in every country, there's no shame.
Just remember, every now and then, it's okay to turn your oh -no moments to ooh, what's that?
After all, you never know where your next favorite dish might be hiding.
You're listening to Roundtable coming up next.
They say never go to bed angry.
But what if a good argument before bedtime could actually improve your relationship?
Fighting isn't just about yelling.
It's about understanding, connection, and growth.
Let's uncover why healthy conflict is a necessary life skill in every relationship.
Don't go away. Looking for passion?
How about fiery debate?
Want to hear about current events in China from different perspectives?
Then tune in to Roundtable, where East meets West, and understanding is the goal.
It's Roundtable with myself, Neil Honglin, Steve Heatherly, and Yu Xian.
Ever had an argument with your partner that left you feeling worse rather than better?
Or maybe you avoid fights altogether, thinking it will help preserve peace in the relationship?
Believe it or not, bottling things up can cause more harm than good sometimes.
So let's explore how learning to argue constructively might just be the secret ingredient for lasting love.
I want to ask this question before we start the discussion.
What is the last time you fight with your significant other, and do you remember how did it start?
I don't remember what it was, and I don't remember how it started.
But I know that it always finishes really quickly.
Oh, really? Yeah, and it's never that big a deal.
In the moment, it might feel like a big deal, right?
When anybody has an argument with a friend or a family member, a romantic partner, a coworker, it doesn't matter.
Or even a taxi driver, a stranger out in public.
In the moment, it might feel like a big deal.
But I think one of the things that's key to fighting well, and we'll get into it a little bit more, is to get it out there, then get over it, and then move on as quickly as you can.
I personally believe that if a fight goes on for two, three days, that's where… That's where real damage can come to the relationship.
And also, I think it's very important that both partners are being open about why they started the fight and what they truly think about the issue that they're fighting for.
So, for my personal experience, my very recent fight happened last night.
And it was a time when my energy level was very low, that I'm craving for bedtime, when my boyfriend was trying to talk about something serious as per history and politic wise.
I feel like I was hosting a show at the bedtime.
Imagine that homeland.
It was killing, okay?
So, you're tired. You want to go to bed.
He's trying to give a history and politics lesson.
Something like that.
We're engaged in such a topic that it wasn't really helpful at all.
But it's not even about your relationship at all.
Yeah, but how did it end up in a fight, though?
No, it wasn't really ending up in any fight, because I am the typical type of person that's trying to avoid all fights by trying to talk it through that, you know, just trying to be playing about how I feel.
And this happens a lot when me and the other person, whoever it might be's energy level is not matching.
Because especially when you're tired, or you're feeling exhausted, or whatever negative feelings you may get, it's almost like it's putting you in the disadvantage of, quote unquote, winning the topic or the fight of any possibility.
So, what happened to me last night was that I was being very honest about how I feel and I ended the discussion as quick as possible and just go to sleep.
And this is a role, something between us that never lasts overnight.
So, we get it sorted, we get it cleared out, open about our ideas, and then we end today's discussion.
I think that's actually very healthy, because some people, or different people, react to fight in different ways.
Some would avoid fighting whatsoever.
They do not want to argue with their significant other, or just do not want to argue with anybody.
They are afraid of confrontation.
Some people would just freeze the disagreement right at that moment.
But none of these methods are actually helping.
They're not helping you reach to a consensus.
They're not helping you learning about each other so that in the future you can actually stand in the significant other's shoes.
And they're not helping you making the relationship even closer.
So, what could be some better ways to deal with a fight?
I watched a video or a TV show one time, and the relationship expert was giving this advice.
Instead of saying things...
How can I phrase this?
I'll just give you an example.
Instead of saying this sentence, you never listen to me.
You can say this, I feel like you don't listen to me.
And the expert's advice was, start your sentence with, I feel like, as opposed to, you are definitely doing this.
And the reason the expert said this is an effective sentence type of sentence to use in an argument is because it's a little bit softer in the delivery.
And you're opening the door for some sort of explanation, or some sort of apology, or some sort of, oh, I didn't know you feel like that.
So, always try to say, according to this expert, always try to say, I feel like this, I feel like that.
But don't say things like, I feel like you're an idiot.
Ouch! Sometimes I say that.
That's not the path that the expert was suggesting you go down.
Are you a good fighter?
I'm not a good fighter.
Why not? I'm a good, well, analysis of a bad fight.
So, my pattern is that when I'm in a fight, I cannot go against my instinct of winning.
I just have to win.
And I feel like, like Ushan, I feel like I'm on a show.
I need to be the one who's winning the argument, which is why, I don't know.
I think it's deep in my personality.
I want to win in trivial, non -important things.
When it's really important things, when I have to seriously compete with the other people, it's a different scenario.
But when it's these tiny little arguments in trivia, or just a fight you're in with your specifically good friends or significant other, I feel like I have to win.
It's a problem. I am dealing with it.
The point here is that I do well after the fight is actually concluded.
After we fought and sometimes they were crying, involved, and sometimes accusing of each other, not loving the other party enough, blah, blah, blah.
And after that, I come back to the fight and talk about why I said the things that I said, why you reacted the way I understand that you didn't mean what you said.
And I hope in the future we can deal with these issues the way, well, like this.
So that we can have some instruction for our next fight, or just to avoid the next fight.
I love the little strategies here.
You literally do a review after the fight.
It's really good, serious reviews.
And sometimes for me, that echoes with my pattern too a little bit, but for me it's like, I didn't say the right thing.
I don't feel justified.
Why? Oh, this is why, so I'm going to prepare myself to fight better next time.
But then the next time, I'm going through the same process of just numbing in the middle of the fight.
Do you know why is that?
The reason is because you are in the mood.
You're angry, or you're excited in a neutral instead of positive way.
If you disagree, just tell her.
I am in the mood, right?
See, when you are not entirely objective, you can't be...
When you separate your brain, part of your brain is being busy, feeling all the emotions.
And the other part of your brain is in the fight.
You cannot perform the way you perform when you're perfectly, let's say, subjective and thinking all the things.
Perform is a very interesting word to use.
Are you in the fighting Olympics?
See, that's my problem.
I have to win. But I think another point I like to make here is I am in my relationship for 15 years.
We do not fight anymore because we've done all of our fights in the first stages.
We know each other's bottom line.
And guess what? The bottom lines change.
You lower your bottom line little by little because you've been together long enough.
You love each other long enough.
You're more accepting, too, right?
Yes. And you understand each other's advantages and disadvantages.
And you understand how to poke the button and how not to do that.
And at the end of the day, the bottom line is that you want to stay together.
So do not say the things that you would definitely regret and give the other party the benefit of doubt.
If they're doing something that you feel like they're hurting you intentionally, you know they're not.
You want my three tips for not fighting?
Number one, don't start a conversation that can turn into an argument when you're both hungry.
Awesome. I love it.
Number two, don't start a conversation that could turn into an argument when you're both tired.
Number three, don't start a conversation that could turn into an argument when you are stuck in bad traffic.
In bad mood already.
You're trapped and there's nowhere to go but sit there in that little tiny box car together.
Yes. But for the boys out there, if your significant other shows absolute intent of fighting, do not just go away.
Do not avoid. That is also not helpful.
So true love isn't about avoiding conflict.
It's about finding someone who will argue with you and still stand by your side.
If you can learn to argue honestly and lovingly, you are on the right track.
After all, sometimes a good fight is just another way of saying, I care enough to stay.
And that brings us to the end of today's Roundtable.
We'd love to hear your thoughts on today's shows and today's topics.
Leave us a comment or send us an email to RoundtablePodcast at QQ .com.
We'll see you next time.
Bye bye.
